Goldmine (soul Supply) Ltd

[Soul Shrews]

Yes publishing companies can get back royalties from several years ago and our publishing arm was frequently claiming these as we signed up new publishing firms, just like we're doing with Ray Dahrouge now. Presumably he won't get that money now they're bankrupt, which could be a reason for somebody going bankrupt.

Got it thanks Ady

Cheers Paul

[Guest soulboy]

Yes publishing companies can get back royalties from several years ago and our publishing arm was frequently claiming these as we signed up new publishing firms, just like we're doing with Ray Dahrouge now. Presumably he won't get that money now they're bankrupt, which could be a reason for somebody going bankrupt.

forgive me for being thick but will this affect the other parts of goldmine or is it like double glazing they start up again with a different name .was discount discs in stoke some thing to do with goldmine it closed ages ago, what ever your feeling are for them its got to be a loss for the scene,I seem to remember ian L saying some thing about there would be a problem getting the cd's and dvd's in to the shop when woolies went bang wonder if that aint helped gold mine cos i all ways have a look in high street shops if there are any new northern in and iv not seen any in ages, May be we will go back to the little record shop like before the world went mad I some how dont think so ?

[Guest SoulRenaissance]

Would they have recieved royalties if Goldmine hadn't gone broke ?

Heard bad things about Goldmine in the States for a number of years from different people connected to the biz.

Cheers Paul

Dave Brown of Philly Archives released a lot of compilations, and also gave Goldmine/ Soul Supply access to some of the material. But i heard they never paid hima penny or gave him credit, even bootlegged/ repackaged some of his CD's as their own. Some of his (Dave Brown's) later product was even rubbished by certain parties in reviews, to sabotage his releases. A bit shit, eh?

[Barry]

I don't think there are any personal comments, just business comments. Like I now have to tell fellow site member Ray Dahrouge and his writing partner Billy Terrell, along with many others that they won't be getting any royalties from some of the songs they wrote, which were later compiled on to Goldmine CDs and sold to soul collectors for profit, because the company has gone broke.

Fair-do's Ady, fair do's.

I have been a business in my life and I understand that going under does not always make you a c*nt.

Who? at the end of the day wants to go under?

Does anyone ever want to f*ck someone over?

No.

They keep on, trying to do their best, until they cannot do that anymore.

Given the fact that you may know more than I...but as far as I am concerned people who know very little about business seem to jump on the old bw without having a clue.

two sides to every story mate.

[Barry]

I can't agree, Barry.

Businesses have legal and moral obligations, just as people do.

And there's nothing personal about this. It's business.

Paul

Paul, obviously not.

Have you ever gone under?

I have.

[SteveM]

Paul, obviously not.

Have you ever gone under?

I have.

Someone else could have put them under.

Its also listed as a non trading company at Companies House (?), but unlike many businesses, they kept their filing obligations up to date prior to the liquidation.

[Ady Croasdell]

Fair-do's Ady, fair do's.

I have been a business in my life and I understand that going under does not always make you a c*nt.

Who? at the end of the day wants to go under?

Does anyone ever want to f*ck someone over?

No.

They keep on, trying to do their best, until they cannot do that anymore.

Given the fact that you may know more than I...but as far as I am concerned people who know very little about business seem to jump on the old bw without having a clue.

two sides to every story mate.

Point 1, I never remotely said it did, we're discussing one specific case here.

Point 2, Have you never heard of bankruptcies of convenience to avoid some debts, if you've been in business I really can't believe you're that naieve.

Point 3, Possibly but a more common reason would be to save a few quid that you owe.

Point 4, So every company you ever heard of is 100% morally correct? No exceptions?

Point 5, Your first statement is of course true, I do know more about it than you. I don't jump on bandwagons and I do have a clue. So much so that today I'm telling Kent Harris' daughter Karime that there won't be as much publishing money for her father as a company that put out her father's and mother's records without his or her consent has gone bankrupt.

Point 6 I know there are two sides to everything, I'm putting one of them forward. Mate.

[Steve Plumb]

Have read this thread with interest!

It is possible (now the world has shrunk and searching is easy) that artists/writers/owners etc can google themselves and find someone had released some of their product from back in the 80's to the present day (on for example a Northern Soul CD compilation). If they had received no royalities at the time I guess they must legally be able to claim this back via various mediums?

Therefore, I guess that if enough artists/writers/owners etc claimed backdated royalties that a company couldn't pay back, it could hypothetically put them out of business???

Just a thought.........

Cheers

Steve

[Ady Croasdell]

Have read this thread with interest!

It is possible (now the world has shrunk and searching is easy) that artists/writers/owners etc can google themselves and find someone had released some of their product from back in the 80's to the present day (on for example a Northern Soul CD compilation). If they had received no royalities at the time I guess they must legally be able to claim this back via various mediums?

Therefore, I guess that if enough artists/writers/owners etc claimed backdated royalties that a company couldn't pay back, it could hypothetically put them out of business???

Just a thought.........

Cheers

Steve

If they hadn't put anything by to cover it from the money they made from sales at the time, or didn't want to dig into past profits, yes.

Edited March 6, 2009 by ady croasdell

[Guest Paul]

Paul, obviously not.

Have you ever gone under?

I have.

Hello Barry,

This isn't about "going under".

This case is about accepting liquidation to avoid obligations to a particular creditor (and perhaps others in the future) for statutory royalties.

I've already said that I consider it to be a relatively small amount, considering that the directors of Goldmine aren't poor and they also have directorships of other companies which have assets.

The way I see it, this is a convenient escape route. The amounts due in this particular case go back several years. It also seems they had attempted to evade payment of these statutory royalties in the first place.

The losers in this case are the publishers and writers who, once again, haven't been paid for reproduction of their work. How do you think they feel about that???

Best regards,

Paul

[Ian Dewhirst]

Have read this thread with interest!

It is possible (now the world has shrunk and searching is easy) that artists/writers/owners etc can google themselves and find someone had released some of their product from back in the 80's to the present day (on for example a Northern Soul CD compilation). If they had received no royalities at the time I guess they must legally be able to claim this back via various mediums?

Therefore, I guess that if enough artists/writers/owners etc claimed backdated royalties that a company couldn't pay back, it could hypothetically put them out of business???

Just a thought.........

Cheers

Steve

Hey Steve,

The problem runs much deeper than that and it's not always a black and white situation. Having seen 80% of all the record companies I've ever known either go down, merge, cease trading etc, etc I think the odds of ANY record company surviving is a miracle these days. I also think it's been shake-out time for the majority of music related companies over the last couple of years especially. Unless a company is exceptionally well-structured it won't be able to survive in today's climate. Also, in the same period of time we saw the collapse of far bigger operations like Fopp, Entertainment UK, Woolworths, Pinnacle and Zavvi so the size of an operation is no guarantee either.

Additionally, almost every part of the UK industry is skewered against minor U.S. artists anyway who will generally need UK representation to even understand how their interests can be protected and collected. The big companies can be every bit as bad as the smaller companies in 'forgetting' royalties, none accounting etc, etc and the laws governing the UK publishing business are a licence to steal in my opinion. I know a number of so-called repectable UK Publishing operations who take full advantage of certain tricks and collect on titles that they shouldn't be collecting on at all. I also know a number of companies who prefer to use a legal disclaimer on their releases which kinda gets them off the hook for licensing until anyone chases. There's a tremendous lack of transparency in a number of areas of the UK biz not least in the difficulty artists have chasing up their copyrights over here. If you want to find out who owns a copyright in the U.S. you just pump into the BMI or ASCAP databases and bingo, you'll find what your looking for. However, our U.S colleagues cannot do the same over here because mere entry to the MCPS database is for members only! If you're over in a suburb of Detroit it's not that easy believe me. Also virtually none of the necessary re-restructuring for the recession has been done with the industry organisations who are still running their businesses as though they were banks LOL..they still think it's the 80's!

In short, the whole industry is in a mess. Since I've been writing this, Amazon have just announced that they'll be selling the No.1 single for 29p i.e. less that a packet of chewing gum. THAT'S how much music has devalued in this recession!

I can't imagine that the writer's proportion of 29p will amount to much over 2p!

It's all very sad and I don't necessarily approve of everybody's methods in a lot of companies (both major and minor) but in another year or two there won't be any such thing as a record company so I guess we should relish 'em whilst we can.

Also, I should point out that Kent is the exception to the general rule as a record company. Great ethics and good people running it are a rare combination these days!

Ian D

[Ernie Andrews]

The law is an ass as far as companies is concerend in the Uk

If the company does go bankrupt then the directors also become bankrupt which means they cannot serve as directors of another company for whatever period of time is set.

However the enforcing authority is as much use as a chocolate fire guard and I would suspect the current directors of Goldmine know this - so its the easy oprtion as opposed to using funds from their other businesses to prevent the bankruptcy order.

Its plain & simple

You sell a product- Give yourself extortianate drawings(as directors) and put the company into debt when you then file for bankruptcy. because the bank is knocking on your door along with the cerditors.

It does not matter if you have other businesses that are successful and profit making because the creditors cant touch those assests.

Its just a big con!

[Ady Croasdell]

Hey Steve,

The problem runs much deeper than that and it's not always a black and white situation. Having seen 80% of all the record companies I've ever known either go down, merge, cease trading etc, etc I think the odds of ANY record company surviving is a miracle these days. I also think it's been shake-out time for the majority of music related companies over the last couple of years especially. Unless a company is exceptionally well-structured it won't be able to survive in today's climate. Also, in the same period of time we saw the collapse of far bigger operations like Fopp, Entertainment UK, Woolworths, Pinnacle and Zavvi so the size of an operation is no guarantee either.

Additionally, almost every part of the UK industry is skewered against minor U.S. artists anyway who will generally need UK representation to even understand how their interests can be protected and collected. The big companies can be every bit as bad as the smaller companies in 'forgetting' royalties, none accounting etc, etc and the laws governing the UK publishing business are a licence to steal in my opinion. I know a number of so-called repectable UK Publishing operations who take full advantage of certain tricks and collect on titles that they shouldn't be collecting on at all. I also know a number of companies who prefer to use a legal disclaimer on their releases which kinda gets them off the hook for licensing until anyone chases. There's a tremendous lack of transparency in a number of areas of the UK biz not least in the difficulty artists have chasing up their copyrights over here. If you want to find out who owns a copyright in the U.S. you just pump into the BMI or ASCAP databases and bingo, you'll find what your looking for. However, our U.S colleagues cannot do the same over here because mere entry to the MCPS database is for members only! If you're over in a suburb of Detroit it's not that easy believe me. Also virtually none of the necessary re-restructuring for the recession has been done with the industry organisations who are still running their businesses as though they were banks LOL..they still think it's the 80's!

In short, the whole industry is in a mess. Since I've been writing this, Amazon have just announced that they'll be selling the No.1 single for 29p i.e. less that a packet of chewing gum. THAT'S how much music has devalued in this recession!

I can't imagine that the writer's proportion of 29p will amount to much over 2p!

It's all very sad and I don't necessarily approve of everybody's methods in a lot of companies (both major and minor) but in another year or two there won't be any such thing as a record company so I guess we should relish 'em whilst we can.

Also, I should point out that Kent is the exception to the general rule as a record company. Great ethics and good people running it are a rare combination these days!

Ian D

Good post Ian and a lot of sad truth there, but just to clarify for budding reissue label entrepreneurs out there; BMI or ASCAP won't tell you who owns a music copyright, just a song and the two are only occasionally connected. Ditto MCPS and info on all sites is far from gospel (not neccessarily in the musical sense).

[Ian Dewhirst]

The law is an ass as far as companies is concerend in the Uk

If the company does go bankrupt then the directors also become bankrupt which means they cannot serve as directors of another company for whatever period of time is set.

However the enforcing authority is as much use as a chocolate fire guard and I would suspect the current directors of Goldmine know this - so its the easy oprtion as opposed to using funds from their other businesses to prevent the bankruptcy order.

Its plain & simple

You sell a product- Give yourself extortianate drawings(as directors) and put the company into debt when you then file for bankruptcy. because the bank is knocking on your door along with the cerditors.

It does not matter if you have other businesses that are successful and profit making because the creditors cant touch those assests.

Its just a big con!

Yep. Tend to agree with you there Steve. Some people are professionals and go through dozens of companies living the high life. The banks haven't exactly set a good example for fair dealing or transparent policies either, so until you sort the guys at the top out, the guys at the bottom will carry on getting away with it. Who CAN you trust these days?

By the way, was the Skull Snaps album OK?

Ian D

[Guest Paul]

I might add, Barry, that other record companies - big and small - have no trouble paying statutory mechanical royalties and master licensing royalties ...often in advance.

They factor these amounts into the process as "raw costs", alongside processing and manufacturing costs etc. If they make a profit, it is after such costs have been paid. That's the difference.

As a publisher member of MCPS and other societies I've had no problem collecting income due from other record companies, big and small, including Demon, Sanctuary (now Universal), Ace, Soul Jazz, Grapevine, Soulscape, Passion/Expansion/Soul Brother and many others.

Those companies follow the rules and have accounting systems to control such things. They are a pleasure to deal with and it's nice to see writers and artists or licensors getting financial benefit from their activities.

Paul

[ImberBoy]

I'm not too sure if this is in the correct section but could some one find out whether my tea is ready?

I have been shouting to our lass but she either can't hear me or she is fookin ignoring me?

[SteveM]

The law is an ass as far as companies is concerend in the Uk

If the company does go bankrupt then the directors also become bankrupt which means they cannot serve as directors of another company for whatever period of time is set.

However the enforcing authority is as much use as a chocolate fire guard and I would suspect the current directors of Goldmine know this - so its the easy oprtion as opposed to using funds from their other businesses to prevent the bankruptcy order.

Its plain & simple

You sell a product- Give yourself extortianate drawings(as directors) and put the company into debt when you then file for bankruptcy. because the bank is knocking on your door along with the cerditors.

It does not matter if you have other businesses that are successful and profit making because the creditors cant touch those assests.

Its just a big con!

The Directors don't go bankrupt if the Company goes into liquidation Steve . Not as a direct result of that liquidation anyway. They may if they have personal guarantees, such as to a bank etc, and can't/don't pay them.

They can be disqualified if the liquidator finds they have acted outside the Companies Act, their responsibilities as directors etc etc, and the liquidator has to prepare a report on their conduct as directors. The Dept of Trade then considers if disqualification as a director is to be considered. The liquidator has to be informed of/find any wrongdoing in order that he can make an accurate report.

Conduct as a director should be most important, but as you say, the Dept of Trade rarely takes action.

An example of this would be say where a company prefers one creditor over other. ie. it may pay a debt to another company owned by directors at the expense of others. This would be something any decent liquidator should look at.

Due to the principle of limited liability which companies enjoy, directors interests in other limited companies and/or personal assets are generally unaffected by liquidation.

[Naughty Boy]

Isnt this company owned by K roberts..

Goldsoul Ltd as also gone into liquidation dissolved what ever when did it cease operations

Rob

Edited March 6, 2009 by Naughty Boy

[Ian Dewhirst]

I might add, Barry, that other record companies - big and small - have no trouble paying statutory mechanical royalties and master licensing royalties ...often in advance.

They factor these amounts into the process as "raw costs", alongside processing and manufacturing costs etc. If they make a profit, it is after such costs have been paid. That's the difference.

As a publisher member of MCPS and other societies I've had no problem collecting income due from other record companies, big and small, including Demon, Sanctuary (now Universal), Ace, Soul Jazz, Grapevine, Soulscape, Passion/Expansion/Soul Brother and many others.

Those companies follow the rules and have accounting systems to control such things. They are a pleasure to deal with and it's nice to see writers and artists or licensors getting financial benefit from their activities.

Paul

If only they were all like that it'd make life a lot simpler for sure Paul.

But the problem now is going to be who will take a chance on putting out a CD with all the attendent costs for a market which is only one third of what it was a year ago? That's a sure-fire way to go bust as everyone keeps demonstrating!

Plus you can only flog 'em through HMV, the supermarkets, a few exports here and there and a handful of indies which are left. All the margins have gone on the record company side so it's just not worth doing it anymore for most companies. The market has disappeared.

I predict that in future whatever market is left for CD's will be done by doing small runs of bespoke CD's where you can run hundreds of different titles at the press of a button. Can you imagine the nightmare of trying to oversee hundreds of 'bedroom' operations?

I'm afraid that anyone who thinks that the music business can survive on the public paying 29p for the No.1 single is living in cloud cuckoo land. We can expect thousands of mini bootleg operations from this point on.........it's the wild west out there right now.

I was speaking to an American colleague the other day who just caught 3 different companies bootlegging his repertoire in Europe. When he contacted them, they all said "Sue us then".

My mate round the corner, Gee Bello from Light Of The World, has just found a couple of tracks he owns on French Boogie compilations. The French guy just said, "No problem, sue me"!

Even if you persued legal action, the company would disappear overnight and re-appear the next day selling the same stuff and your legal fees would double!

It's a no win situation right now. Plus the declining market, credit crunch, free downloading, cover-mounts, 29p No.1 singles, top heavy industry organisations, expensive lawyers and shaky distributors don't help either.

Basically, you'd have to be a nutcase to run a record company under these circumstances, so I doubt that there'll be many standing in a year or two. We're looking at a calamatious decline of what was once the UK's No.2 export earner 30 years ago and it saddens me tremendously.

Ian D

[SteveM]

Goldsoul Ltd as also gone into liquidation

Rob

Its been "dissolved" Rob. Biiiiiiiiiiiiig difference

[Jaco]

Goldsoul Ltd as also gone into liquidation

Rob

Not quite right.

The company was the subject of a voluntary dissolution.

[Marc Forrest]

Ian D

Very good points Ian. Thats exactly the reason why you won`t find one single bootlegged/self-burnt CD in my house. It is very much natural that those re-issue companies had to go bust one day when the majority (not only of all people but also of a lot of Soulies) has bootleg CD`s at home. But then again its the devil that came with this monster called personal computer / Internet and CD`s which were brought upon us by the industry itself back in the day.

I only feel sorry for all the small companies, especially those who pay their debts of course and do hope that the remaining companies especially ACE/KENT will be with us "forever".

Marc

[Naughty Boy]

Not quite right.

The company was the subject of a voluntary dissolution.

known as Orchigan Ltd Shelf comp more like then Kev roberts ltd then goldsoul ltd according to CH it was going to be struck off for late filing none filing of accounts

Edited March 6, 2009 by Naughty Boy

[Jaco]

known as Orchigan Ltd Shelf comp more like then Kev roberts ltd then goldsoul ltd according to CH it was going to be struck off for late filing none filing of accounts

A voluntary dissolution suggests that it's come to the end of it's life and is no longer required.

There may have been some liabilities but without knowing the full extent of the financial position at the dissolution stage, it is pure speculation to believe that there may have been losses somewhere.

[mischief]

Sorry all this talk of record companies etc going under... I got an email today Zavvi seems to be back on line....

[Guest Carl Dixon]

Great thread.

Now what do I do with my Detroit masters in that case? Sell them on Ebay - for £100,000! As a co -writer I would expect royalties from airplay and duplication etc and the sale could mean I go and produce more tracks in Detroit. I can well imagine what will happen once my stuff is digital. My deals with the States means I owe royalties for various things to various people. What I have read has made it almost impossible for the creative process to exist, as sales are stuffed by various people/operations.

[Naughty Boy]

A voluntary dissolution suggests that it's come to the end of it's life and is no longer required.

There may have been some liabilities but without knowing the full extent of the financial position at the dissolution stage, it is pure speculation to believe that there may have been losses somewhere.

I have merely stated what is available in the public domain ie companies house. nothing more nothing less

dissolution avoids the costs of liquidation fees etc and all the following are met

• The company has not traded for three months; this must be a genuine cessation of trade!
  
• The company has no assets or property or cash at bank.
  
• The creditors must be circulated requesting their permission for the company to be dissolved under this process.
  
• Creditors are given three months to consider the request to dissolve the company and can reject such request.
  
• The company cannot have changed its name in this period.
  
• The company may not have disposed of any property or assets (this may include land and buildings, plant and equipment, debtors and other assets).
  

[SteveM]

I have merely stated what is available in the public domain ie companies house. nothing more nothing less

dissolution avoids the costs of liquidation fees etc and all the following are met

• The company has not traded for three months; this must be a genuine cessation of trade!
  
• The company has no assets or property or cash at bank.
  
• The creditors must be circulated requesting their permission for the company to be dissolved under this process.
  
• Creditors are given three months to consider the request to dissolve the company and can reject such request.
  
• The company cannot have changed its name in this period.
  
• The company may not have disposed of any property or assets (this may include land and buildings, plant and equipment, debtors and other assets).
  

652a was filed.

Edited March 6, 2009 by SteveM

[Jaco]

I have merely stated what is available in the public domain ie companies house. nothing more nothing less

dissolution avoids the costs of liquidation fees etc and all the following are met

• The company has not traded for three months; this must be a genuine cessation of trade!
  
• The company has no assets or property or cash at bank.
  
• The creditors must be circulated requesting their permission for the company to be dissolved under this process.
  
• Creditors are given three months to consider the request to dissolve the company and can reject such request.
  
• The company cannot have changed its name in this period.
  
• The company may not have disposed of any property or assets (this may include land and buildings, plant and equipment, debtors and other assets).
  

I wasn't suggesting that you thought that there may something untoward with regrads to this company's demise - it's just that "liquidation" can be a provocative term to use as it often indicates insolvency and therefore loss to someone.

Voluntary dissolution actions are often instigated by Companies House for non filing of statutory returns, but where a company is no longer required, the directors simply let the action run it's course.

Of course any interested parties can object to the dissolution, but that does not appear to be the case here.

[Geoff Whitfield]

Very interesting topic, have enjoyed reading and learning.

I'd like to add a couple of things myself.

I manage a cd shop in Leamington Spa(called Head) and we have a great selection of soul cd's (well I would say that lol!)but we do stock well over a 1000 soul title's all the Ace, Numero,Grapevine,Ian Dewhirst's Torch Story etc,Soul Brother ,Expansion, Goldmine. And has been mentioned earlier in the thread not many shops stock specialist cd's now.But I believe with hard work small independant shops can still make a go of it. I have built up a rapore with the customers and now have quite a few regulars that pre order all the Ace cd's.

Enough of the plug for the shop,back to thread topic, we had a customer come in two weeks ago with a Goldmine cd- essential Modern soul, the lady said she had "allegidly" bought it off goldsoul on ebay and asked me if it was a bootleg, I took one look at it and told her it was, it had a cheap photocopied booklet and a cdr as a disc, she was gobsmacked that a company like Goldsoul could do this. I have heard a rumour that Kev Roberts had " allegidly" been fined for bootlegging his own product?.

I felt really sorry for her as she was just a punter who liked the music but didn't really have any knowledge but put her trust in a company.

Take care peeps

Geoff

[scunnyjack]

Very interesting topic, have enjoyed reading and learning.

I'd like to add a couple of things myself.

I manage a cd shop in Leamington Spa(called Head) and we have a great selection of soul cd's (well I would say that lol!)but we do stock well over a 1000 soul title's all the Ace, Numero,Grapevine,Ian Dewhirst's Torch Story etc,Soul Brother ,Expansion, Goldmine. And has been mentioned earlier in the thread not many shops stock specialist cd's now.But I believe with hard work small independant shops can still make a go of it. I have built up a rapore with the customers and now have quite a few regulars that pre order all the Ace cd's.

Enough of the plug for the shop,back to thread topic, we had a customer come in two weeks ago with a Goldmine cd- essential Modern soul, the lady said she had "allegidly" bought it off goldsoul on ebay and asked me if it was a bootleg, I took one look at it and told her it was, it had a cheap photocopied booklet and a cdr as a disc, she was gobsmacked that a company like Goldsoul could do this. I have heard a rumour that Kev Roberts had " allegidly" been fined for bootlegging his own product?.

I felt really sorry for her as she was just a punter who liked the music but didn't really have any knowledge but put her trust in a company.

Take care peeps

Geoff

This was the CD which I commented about earlier in the thread. I got mine via Amazon.Another CD very similar in appearance and with poor sound quality is The Essential Northern Soul Story also on Goldmine.

Years ago I had a catalogue from a company called Marginal records with numerous Motown/Soul CD's for sale all looking somewhat dubious!.

Slightly off topic while I have been typing this Come On Train was on a Visa advert on Sky Sports.

Steve

[scunnyjack]

Very interesting topic, have enjoyed reading and learning.

I'd like to add a couple of things myself.

I manage a cd shop in Leamington Spa(called Head) and we have a great selection of soul cd's (well I would say that lol!)but we do stock well over a 1000 soul title's all the Ace, Numero,Grapevine,Ian Dewhirst's Torch Story etc,Soul Brother ,Expansion, Goldmine. And has been mentioned earlier in the thread not many shops stock specialist cd's now.But I believe with hard work small independant shops can still make a go of it. I have built up a rapore with the customers and now have quite a few regulars that pre order all the Ace cd's.

Enough of the plug for the shop,back to thread topic, we had a customer come in two weeks ago with a Goldmine cd- essential Modern soul, the lady said she had "allegidly" bought it off goldsoul on ebay and asked me if it was a bootleg, I took one look at it and told her it was, it had a cheap photocopied booklet and a cdr as a disc, she was gobsmacked that a company like Goldsoul could do this. I have heard a rumour that Kev Roberts had " allegidly" been fined for bootlegging his own product?.

I felt really sorry for her as she was just a punter who liked the music but didn't really have any knowledge but put her trust in a company.

Take care peeps

Geoff

This was the CD which I commented about earlier in the thread. I got mine via Amazon.Another CD very similar in appearance and with poor sound quality is The Essential Northern Soul Story also on Goldmine.

Years ago I had a catalogue from a company called Marginal records with numerous Motown/Soul CD's for sale all looking somewhat dubious!.

Slightly off topic while I have been typing this Come On Train was on a Visa advert on Sky Sports.

Steve

[Geoff Whitfield]

Very interesting topic, have enjoyed reading and learning.

I'd like to add a couple of things myself.

I manage a cd shop in Leamington Spa(called Head) and we have a great selection of soul cd's (well I would say that lol!)but we do stock well over a 1000 soul title's all the Ace, Numero,Grapevine,Ian Dewhirst's Torch Story etc,Soul Brother ,Expansion, Goldmine. And has been mentioned earlier in the thread not many shops stock specialist cd's now.But I believe with hard work small independant shops can still make a go of it. I have built up a rapore with the customers and now have quite a few regulars that pre order all the Ace cd's.

Enough of the plug for the shop,back to thread topic, we had a customer come in two weeks ago with a Goldmine cd- essential Modern soul, the lady said she had "allegidly" bought it off goldsoul on ebay and asked me if it was a bootleg, I took one look at it and told her it was, it had a cheap photocopied booklet and a cdr as a disc, she was gobsmacked that a company like Goldsoul could do this. I have heard a rumour that Kev Roberts had " allegidly" been fined for bootlegging his own product?.

I felt really sorry for her(if her allegation was true) as she was just a punter who liked the music but didn't really have any knowledge but put her trust in a company.

Take care peeps

Geoff

[Ian Dewhirst]

Very good points Ian. Thats exactly the reason why you won`t find one single bootlegged/self-burnt CD in my house. It is very much natural that those re-issue companies had to go bust one day when the majority (not only of all people but also of a lot of Soulies) has bootleg CD`s at home. But then again its the devil that came with this monster called personal computer / Internet and CD`s which were brought upon us by the industry itself back in the day.

I only feel sorry for all the small companies, especially those who pay their debts of course and do hope that the remaining companies especially ACE/KENT will be with us "forever".

Marc

Seconded Marc. Nothing beats a legitimate CD for me. I have a very complete CD collection built up from 20 years of collecting simply because I want all my masters to be beautifully pristine and well mastered digital copies which will last 70 odd years. Legitimate CD's generally give me that.

I get calls every week from record companies needing their own masters even though they have their own original 2" master tapes in an archive somewhere. By the time they've accessed the original tape from a temperature controlled bunker in Arizona, couriered it to New York, sent it to an expensive Manhattan mastering suite who then will send the tape off to be 'baked' before then getting it back to remaster it, then bouncing it down to a digital format and then get it sent over to the UK it's too f*ckin' LATE! And forget about the paperwork and internal charges. $1000 dollars and 3 months by the time it's all done. So f*ck that for time management and cost effectiveness........

Instead they ring me and get a perect digital master within a couple of hours. And for a tenth of the cost, if that.

It comes to something when they're ringing me for their own masters!

And now they just won't bother clearing anything unless a track is already on their systems and complete with an IRSC code. Which means that any Major company owned slice of obscure Northern Soul simply will never see the light of day unless something really unusual happens.

Northern Soul is a pain in the ass for most of today's go-getting record companies. They simply can't be arsed. Their logistics and internal systems mean that they'll have a whole heap of adminstrative and logistical headaches for clearing obscure Northern Soul tracks which they often don't have any proper paperwork on (which makes 'em nervous) and which are a pain in the arse to clear legally. Who needs the headache?

So all of sudden, all those Goldmine releases look very alluring as there's a very good chance that none of those tracks will ever be issued again on CD. I've got the whole set (200+) and I play 'em all the time along with all the Kent, Grapevine, Expansion, Castle Communications, Goldsoul, Joe Boy, Universal, Sanctuary and all major and indie label Northern Soul CD releases that I can get my hands on.

Properly mastered digital Northern Soul will be as rare a commodity as Original Vinyl in the future. I love it!

Northern Soul is still as rare and hard to get as it was when it was first released.

The torch is still burning but it will be via LED lighting in the future. And it'll still be just as hard to locate!

Mind you, none of this will have any effect on the Frank Wilson auction will it?

Some deranged nutter with too much money will buy the bugger. As I write this I'm suddenly hearing "C'mon Train" blasting over the TV whilst they're trying to sell me the benefits of banking with Barclays......

Mmmm. There's a thought. Maybe the winner should wield a Barclaycard?

Ian D

Edited March 6, 2009 by Ian Dewhirst

[Guest soulboy]

This was the CD which I commented about earlier in the thread. I got mine via Amazon.Another CD very similar in appearance and with poor sound quality is The Essential Northern Soul Story also on Goldmine.

Years ago I had a catalogue from a company called Marginal records with numerous Motown/Soul CD's for sale all looking somewhat dubious!.

Slightly off topic while I have been typing this Come On Train was on a Visa advert on Sky Sports.

Steve

i had some marginal stuff motown i think they came from europe somewhere got them at a weekender ?

cos you couldnt get the unissued stuff any where , now you can proper motown issues having them on marginal never stopped me getting the proper thing much better sound and info .

[Ian Dewhirst]

i had some marginal stuff motown i think they came from europe somewhere got them at a weekender ?

cos you couldnt get the unissued stuff any where , now you can proper motown issues having them on marginal never stopped me getting the proper thing much better sound and info .

I think the name Marginal probably says it all soul.boy.........

Ian D

[Barry]

This is one weird thread, I think some of you need a hobby - buy a bike ffs.

Point 2, Have you never heard of bankruptcies of convenience to avoid some debts, if you've been in business I really can't believe you're that naieve

Sorry Ady, as I said above you obviously know more about this specific case than I.

I stand by my initial post and the way I conducted my business, my business was about having fun, spreading the word, giving a good service and not in any way being a c*nt and I went under possibly because of that.

Yours,

Naieve and Proud

Warrington

[Barry]

This is one weird thread, I think some of you need a hobby - buy a bike ffs.

Sorry Ady, as I said above you obviously know more about this specific case than I.

I stand by my initial post and the way I conducted my business, my business was about having fun, spreading the word, giving a good service and not in any way being a c*nt and I went under possibly because of that.

Yours,

Naieve and Proud

Warrington

Ooooh! Get me.

[Pete S]

I'd much rather listen to my 'Northern Soul' off a 7" vinyl record than a cd. Sod master tapes, put some surface noise on them, make them sound more authentic.

[Tomangoes]

It would be interesting to know how many sales were recorded against each cd produced.

Its probable that 99% of all tracks of interest to the Northern Soul and expanded soul scene are already on cd, so it was just a matter of time before they closed down one way or another.

Ed

[purist]

Seconded Marc. Nothing beats a legitimate CD for me. I have a very complete CD collection built up from 20 years of collecting simply because I want all my masters to be beautifully pristine and well mastered digital copies which will last 70 odd years. Legitimate CD's generally give me that.

70 years ? kinda doubtful dontcha think, unless you've got a stock of spare parts or machines

are any manufacturing companies still making cd players ?

I thought that the cd format had gone the way of betamax ?

[Ian Dewhirst]

70 years ? kinda doubtful dontcha think, unless you've got a stock of spare parts or machines

are any manufacturing companies still making cd players ?

I thought that the cd format had gone the way of betamax ?

Not yet Purist. Most computers have disc drives and I can't see that stopping for a while......

Ian D