Soul Music Rip

[Guest]

Soul_Music__RIP.rtf

Soul_Music__RIP.rtf

[Guest Matt Male]

Soul_Music__RIP.rtf

I read the first two paragraphs and nadir means low point by the way. Are you saying soul was at it's lowest point in the 60s and 70s?

Welcome to soul source

Edited February 26, 2009 by Matt Male

[De-to]

Soul_Music__RIP.rtf

soul music might be DAED but not dead,

[Jaco]

Soul_Music__RIP.rtf

I suppose that's one way to make a first post

Interesting (personal) observation - wonder what the general reaction will be, given the heady level of enthusiasm that exists amongst this forum's membership.

[Guest]

I read the first two paragraphs and nadir means low point by the way. Are you saying soul was at it's lowest point in the 60s and 70s?

Welcome to soul source

A slight error!. Should have been peak. My apologies

[Guest]

soul music might be DAED but not dead,

Slipped up with spelling. Sorry!

[De-to]

Slipped up with spelling. Sorry!

and a big welcome to soul source jlw,

[MarkWhiteley]

Slipped up with spelling. Sorry!

Perhaps the 'Lifeline' boys could alter your views on the well running dry

No axe to grind per-se

seems like you are about to start WW3

M.

[Suzannek]

Perhaps the 'Lifeline' boys could alter your views on the well running dry

No axe to grind per-se

seems like you are about to start WW3

M.

I agree Mark, Lifeline, Middleton, DDA/Lowton, Soul Addiction (Darlington) and loads of other venues could alter John's view on well running dry imo. Not only that John get a listen to Sixties Soul Sunday thread on media section, the Sweet/Deep Soul Thread, Crossover thread and others on the media section.

Suz

x

[MarkWhiteley]

Was this an article you wrote for a media publication, or just a personal view? you dont by any chance work for the BBC do you?

M.

Edited February 26, 2009 by MarkWhiteley

[Philly]

I suppose that's one way to make a first post

Interesting (personal) observation - wonder what the general reaction will be, given the heady level of enthusiasm that exists amongst this forum's membership.

Big grenade........ lets wait for the explosion

Now thats what you call an entrance......................... welcome.

Edited February 26, 2009 by philly

[MarkWhiteley]

Perhaps an introduction might be prudent John

Especially in light of your early posting

New members shout section....................

just a thought

M.

[Russ Vickers]

If thats your opinion of NS.............FOXTROT OSCAR matey, what ya doin here anyway.

Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Russ

[Guest]

Was this an article you wrote for a media publication, or just a personal view? you dont by any chance work for the BBC do you?

M.

Sorry - No I don't work for the Beeb. I do some writing and this was a piece I did as an exercise. It is a personal view only and believe me I am a huge fan of Soul music but I do feel that we are witnessing the last days of Soul as we know it?

[Guest]

If thats your opinion of NS.............FOXTROT OSCAR matey, what ya doin here anyway.

Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Russ

There are three kinds of Soul music - Good,Bad and indifferent! The 'northern soul' scene has been responsible for bringing to light many great sides over the years but the fact that it is so insular is its own greatest enemy.

What am I doing here? Forgive me but I thought this was a site dedicated to Soul music?

I have been a fan of the genre for over forty years and have supported Soul music in any way I can throughout that time.

I believe that as a true supporter I am entitled to an opinion and if you do not agree with that opinion . . . . .fine.

[Tabs]

I can see where you are coming from and I can't ever percieve Soul Music reaching the peaks it did in the 60T's, in terms of popularity.

But also I can't accept it's dead.

Too may aficionados will keep the torch burning.

Also I think its impossible to compare early Soul recordings to present day.

Something recorded in 1965 is now 44 years old.

Techniques and technology have moved on.

It's just not possible to re create those pioneering days IMO.

Best

Tabs

Sorry - No I don't work for the Beeb. I do some writing and this was a piece I did as an exercise. It is a personal view only and believe me I am a huge fan of Soul music but I do feel that we are witnessing the last days of Soul as we know it?

[Mark S]

Soul_Music__RIP.rtf

Soul music like everything evolves other wise we would still be listening to Baroque and madrigals .

The music of black america from the slave ships to hip hop has always reflected the black experience ,it might not be to your taste nowadays but soul music is very much alive .

[Guest dundeedavie]

There was so many statements of nonsense in that i'm finding it hard to answer it . i suppose the main thing is the insult (and it was an insult) aimed at the soul scene in saying all they care about is danceability with no regard for soul ...thats crap and as i say an insult to a lot of soul fans .

[TOAD]

The 'northern soul' scene has been responsible for bringing to light many great sides over the years but the fact that it is so insular is its own greatest enemy.

insular thats why it still going and part of the reason i still enjoy it, no outside manipulation

[Guest newone]

There was so many statements of nonsense in that i'm finding it hard to answer it . i suppose the main thing is the insult (and it was an insult) aimed at the soul scene in saying all they care about is danceability with no regard for soul ...thats crap and as i say an insult to a lot of soul fans .

the writer is without a doubt causing a stir and certainaly has a axe to grind with northern soul, that is there to see especially the age old what about the artist(it is nobodies fault they were ripped of by their labels and managers except their own)the djs and promoters(not bootleggers they are and always will be scum) in this counrty actually generate a lot of interest for artists(look at the amount who come on here telling their stories and not one seems to give a shit about what has gone, but seem thrilled there is still a people playing their music,my mum said to me once, they dont have, any good singers anymore not like ella fitzgerald etc etc, this was said when i was playing linda jones??? and that sums it up we all stick in our time warps and memory zones and dont move on from our youth if you search u tube mr waters u will found soul music from today by young people not rap or r+b rot but soul ,is it soul you like, most likely not because its from a young persons point of view and not from our youth........taking a wild guess here but are you the john waters that used do do radio and telly and was famous ????? for having contradictory views

[Modernsoulsucks]

I think that's a pretty fair summation. They don't make 'em like they used to!! Hence 2009 releases being pretty thin on the ground at Lifeline, Lowton and Middleton and the surprise and interest in Kings Go Forth.

The scene may be insular in that it is self-contained but "insular" suggests a wider soul -loving world outside that which of course there isn't. Soul was always a minority passion outside of the USA and many soul fans with wide-ranging tastes have gravitated toward the scene as the one place that keeps the music alive.

To say it is predominantly dance focused may have been true in the early days but you only have to look at threads on here to see that it's not only the music in the clubs that is appreciated.

For an insular scene it's not done too bad in spreading the word abroad and in a small but significant way helping the odd artist to extend their careers just a little and make something out of their less than well-rewarded efforts back when.

I think Mr Godin,extolling the virtues of Motown back in the 60's and starting up Soul City, would not be too critical of Mr Thorley making available Rotations or Mr Croasdell's Kent. I fail to see any connection with ego there and although aimed at a specific market the product is available to all.

I do think though that John is right in that it is a rearguard action that can only delay the inevitable consignment of the music to History.

ROD

[Dave Fleming]

It is a personal view only and believe me I am a huge fan of Soul music but I do feel that we are witnessing the last days of Soul as we know it?

Go to the CD Baby or Steve Dolans site,there`s plenty of good new Soul music still being made,

you just have to open your ears

Welcome

Dave f............

[Guest andyrattigan]

There are three kinds of Soul music - Good,Bad and indifferent! The 'northern soul' scene has been responsible for bringing to light many great sides over the years but the fact that it is so insular is its own greatest enemy.

What am I doing here? Forgive me but I thought this was a site dedicated to Soul music?

I have been a fan of the genre for over forty years and have supported Soul music in any way I can throughout that time.

I believe that as a true supporter I am entitled to an opinion and if you do not agree with that opinion . . . . .fine.

Welcome to Soul Source and as I can already see your essay is inviting some hefty critcism. I agree with some of what you say but not all.

With regards to live acts and new discoveries. The Northern scene is still delivering the goods. In particular, Kent records are still unearthing tunes from the vaults. The 6ts Cleethorpes weekenders have live artists flow over from the states every year to adulation from hundreds of Soul fans.

From my own personal view point I actually prefer the sound of the 6ts records rather than a live artist trying to recreate that sound on stage. In fact Ive seen a few Soul artist do poor live performances of their records. However, I still went and listened and clapped and cheered because I simply wanted to thank them for their music and all that it has meant to me.

The best Soul artist Ive seen live was Terry Callier in Dublin in 2000. Blew me away. His current sound is a mixture of Soul/Jazz and even a bit of folk. I almost cried that night such was his performance.

I digress. Yes most Northern fans want to dance. Whats wrong with that? And the sound, production and quality of the music on the vinyl is waht we are after. Whats worng with that? Personally, I welcome the insularity of the scene as it protects our etiquette and means only those with a serious interest in Northern Soul and Modern for that matter will want to continually come to our clubs. I welcome newcomers but they must respect the etiquette of the scene.

Anyway, I think you are going to get a lot of flak on here from the Scene police. Although, I dont fully agree with you, dissent and debate are healthy and constructive. Dont get wound up by those who cant tolerate anyone having a different opinion.

Welcome

[Dave Rimmer]

I think the initial premise is right. Soul music, on the whole is dead in today's commercial terms. Current 'Soul singers' are referred to as Duffy, and Amy Winehouse. So the public perception of 'Soul music' differs greatly from the view held by the majority of members here.

Of course the argument becomes flawed as soon as the writer starts having a go at the Northern scene. Especially when it comes to the live acts. I've seen more live acts in the last ten years then I did in the whole of the Seventies, Eighties, and Nineties. Where ? On the Northern Soul scene, at Cleethorpes and Prestatyn.

The argument is also flawed regarding it being a Northern Dance scene. That held true back in the Seventies when yes, quite clearly, the emphasis was on the right beat to dance to. Now, nearly thirty years later the Northern Soul scene is a greatly changed animal from those days. But hey ! What do you think those Soul singers made the uptempo records for in the first place ? Guess what ? They were made for people to dance to !

Trotting out the old one about the DJs being more important than the artists is also a flawed argument. In the environment where the records were being heard, a dance hall, of course the DJs were the most important pivitol figure involved. It wasn't a group of black guys from 5000 miles away standing on the stage singing was it ? If the artists had been available to perform the songs live, they would have been the most important factor, but quite simply they weren't, so the person playing the records became the focus.

To be honest, having re-read the article again, it's a pretty mediocre piece of work, starts well, and then loses it's way completely in a morass of biased and miscomprehended assertions.

4 out of 10

[Guest]

There was so many statements of nonsense in that i'm finding it hard to answer it . i suppose the main thing is the insult (and it was an insult) aimed at the soul scene in saying all they care about is danceability with no regard for soul ...thats crap and as i say an insult to a lot of soul fans .

The item was written as a personal observation of the state of Soul music today. the 'northern' remarks were only one part of that. I did not insult anybody! I say it as I see it!!

I have been attending clubs and concerts since the mid sixties. Over the years I have seen hundreds of acts and been to clubs all over the country (and outside of it) to hear the music I love.

I have supported Soul music in any way that I can by parting with my hard earned cash supporting artists by attending concerts and buying product,

I have been to many northern events and believe it or not actually enjoyed myself at many!

I believe that many (I say many not all!) northern fans are simply there to dance and not really concerned any further that that. I have no problem with people enjoying themselves and dancing is a great way to do that.

Perhaps I can demonstrate what I mean. A couple of years ago myself and some friends went to see Lou Pride at a small venue in Leicester called The Musician. I was aware of Lou's work and indeed have a couple of his CD's in my collection. I knew that 'Coming home in the morning' was supposedly a huge record on the northern scene so we left early to get a good seat in the club,expecting the place to be packed.

No more than 30 people turned up! The event was well advertized so how do you explain that? (Lou was excellent by the way)

I know that I have travelled miles to see the artists that I love (and still do).

Artists cannot survive in the present climate without support . This is not endemic to the Uk as the same is true in the US. Promoters will stop bringing artists over if they cannot cover their costs. New product is suffering through lack of money - hence the dirth of recordings with programmed horns and strings.

How long can these artists go on if nobody buys their product or parts with their cash at the door?

I am sorry but the northern scene does little to promote the artists of today and if we do not give our support then Soul muisc is doomed!

[Guest]

the writer is without a doubt causing a stir and certainaly has a axe to grind with northern soul, that is there to see especially the age old what about the artist(it is nobodies fault they were ripped of by their labels and managers except their own)the djs and promoters(not bootleggers they are and always will be scum) in this counrty actually generate a lot of interest for artists(look at the amount who come on here telling their stories and not one seems to give a shit about what has gone, but seem thrilled there is still a people playing their music,my mum said to me once, they dont have, any good singers anymore not like ella fitzgerald etc etc, this was said when i was playing linda jones??? and that sums it up we all stick in our time warps and memory zones and dont move on from our youth if you search u tube mr waters u will found soul music from today by young people not rap or r+b rot but soul ,is it soul you like, most likely not because its from a young persons point of view and not from our youth........taking a wild guess here but are you the john waters that used do do radio and telly and was famous ????? for having contradictory views

[Guest]

the writer is without a doubt causing a stir and certainaly has a axe to grind with northern soul, that is there to see especially the age old what about the artist(it is nobodies fault they were ripped of by their labels and managers except their own)the djs and promoters(not bootleggers they are and always will be scum) in this counrty actually generate a lot of interest for artists(look at the amount who come on here telling their stories and not one seems to give a shit about what has gone, but seem thrilled there is still a people playing their music,my mum said to me once, they dont have, any good singers anymore not like ella fitzgerald etc etc, this was said when i was playing linda jones??? and that sums it up we all stick in our time warps and memory zones and dont move on from our youth if you search u tube mr waters u will found soul music from today by young people not rap or r+b rot but soul ,is it soul you like, most likely not because its from a young persons point of view and not from our youth........taking a wild guess here but are you the john waters that used do do radio and telly and was famous ????? for having contradictory views

I am sorry but I have never done radio and the only telly was a short spot on a Sky channel programme on Mods (which I am sure nobody ever saw!) so I think you must be thinking of somebody else.

I am fully in agreement when it comes to bringing over artists who have had big records is great for them. But it does nothing to promote/support Soul music today.

[Guest]

I think the initial premise is right. Soul music, on the whole is dead in today's commercial terms. Current 'Soul singers' are referred to as Duffy, and Amy Winehouse. So the public perception of 'Soul music' differs greatly from the view held by the majority of members here.

Of course the argument becomes flawed as soon as the writer starts having a go at the Northern scene. Especially when it comes to the live acts. I've seen more live acts in the last ten years then I did in the whole of the Seventies, Eighties, and Nineties. Where ? On the Northern Soul scene, at Cleethorpes and Prestatyn.

The argument is also flawed regarding it being a Northern Dance scene. That held true back in the Seventies when yes, quite clearly, the emphasis was on the right beat to dance to. Now, nearly thirty years later the Northern Soul scene is a greatly changed animal from those days. But hey ! What do you think those Soul singers made the uptempo records for in the first place ? Guess what ? They were made for people to dance to !

Trotting out the old one about the DJs being more important than the artists is also a flawed argument. In the environment where the records were being heard, a dance hall, of course the DJs were the most important pivitol figure involved. It wasn't a group of black guys from 5000 miles away standing on the stage singing was it ? If the artists had been available to perform the songs live, they would have been the most important factor, but quite simply they weren't, so the person playing the records became the focus.

To be honest, having re-read the article again, it's a pretty mediocre piece of work, starts well, and then loses it's way completely in a morass of biased and miscomprehended assertions.

4 out of 10

So it is Ok to criticize in general but not to criticize the northern scene?

As for the DJ's. I am sure the majority do an excellent job but hey, lets be honest when it comes to egos the northern scene is plagued. Surely the most important thing is the music not who is behind the deck?

As for the artist being available to perform live? The birth of disco in the seventies killed off the careers of so many artists. Sorry to use disco as a comparison but the fact is that was also a dance related scene.

The northern scene is not primarily about live music and never has been.

As for the criticism of my literary skills - I am a Soul music fan not an author!

[Guest James Trouble]

I confess I am egotistical, obsessed with discovering new sounds, I'm only really, mostly, concerned with the 'dance' and I think huge chunks of the 'northern scene' have become a parody of itself.

But dispute reading that accuracy in your article, overall it's pretty wank, and you are totally missing the point, really

Edited February 27, 2009 by James Trouble

[jocko]

So it is Ok to criticize in general but not to criticize the northern scene?

As for the DJ's. I am sure the majority do an excellent job but hey, lets be honest when it comes to egos the northern scene is plagued. Surely the most important thing is the music not who is behind the deck?

As for the artist being available to perform live? The birth of disco in the seventies killed off the careers of so many artists. Sorry to use disco as a comparison but the fact is that was also a dance related scene.

The northern scene is not primarily about live music and never has been.

As for the criticism of my literary skills - I am a Soul music fan not an author!

Well you did put it up here so assume you were after some literary criticism, and it is no classic in the literary sense you would surely admit, I doubt very much any publication would see fit to publish this, maybe why its here.......

I actually think its a reasonable view from anyone outside the Northern scene, lots to disagree on for me but to be honest its all been done before and much better. It is to be fair a reasonable opinion of where things are today, just not a very correct opinion IMHO obviously!

But why you think sticking it on a predominately Northern forum it wouldn't get flak is beyond me and to be honest its been quite light on the expected criticism so far. You do spoil it slightly with the rather poor disco points above, surely that makes you just as blinkered as the Northern people you so strongly condemn.

I just don't understand what you expect to get out of and why you are being so defensive, surely you could only expect an argument. I did wonder if you were our antipodean Brother over for a wind up. If not it does seem more than a little egotistical just sticking up an article with no background or introduction when in concept its critisizing heavily the community you are asking to read it,.

Anyway, welcome!

[Steve G]

Soul_Music__RIP.rtf

Some interesting points if you are what I would class a traditional soul fan. The music of the likes of James Carr, Bobby Bland etc, is really now confined to people's own record and CD collections with no interest whatsoever beyond. It's a tragic shame that 30 people turn up to see Lou Pride -especially as his repetoire is so much richer than "I'm comun home in the mornun". I remember when I first tracked him down in the 90s and interviewed him on radio, his only knowledge of the UK scene was that "I'm comun home" had been a "number one hit in the UK". Of course I had to disavow him of that belief straight away. How disappointed he must have been to see a crowd of....30.

New soul music generally attracts low sales. There is the odd trend bucker, but not very often. I mean by definition a press of 500 of a new release means that it is destined to remain extremely obscure. Many of the 500 presses don't even sell out.

The northern scene by contrast is a club based scene based around dancing and obscure records and has nothing to do with what goes on in the wider contemporary soul world. It always has been, however that too is fragmented into factions, some of which are positively struggling numbers wise. The oldies brigade, newies fans etc etc. It is wrong to lump northern in with the wider soul scene, as the two are totally divorced from each other.

As for the Dells at Hammersmith, I really don't think that would have worked. At Trentham, I was annoyed at the time when some of the people were getting openly bored when they were singing things like "Standing ovation". But why wouldn't people travel up the M6 to see such a fabulous group? I think if there was any chance of them filling the Hammy O Burton would have seized that opportunity. But I don't see it myself - London based soul fans - it's hard enough to get them to cross the road to go and see an act .

I have seen this type of article before, it's all been said before, but it is sometimes worth taking a check as to where we are. The northern scene will continue to evolve for some years yet (unfortunately for me it seems to be ever increasingly oldies based with in too many cases lowering standards - but that's my opinion). But I think you have to carve out the northern scene from the rest of your article, simply because northern is not linked to mainstream soul.

Edited February 27, 2009 by Steve G

[Steve Brown]

I think the initial premise is right. Soul music, on the whole is dead in today's commercial terms. Current 'Soul singers' are referred to as Duffy, and Amy Winehouse. So the public perception of 'Soul music' differs greatly from the view held by the majority of members here.

Of course the argument becomes flawed as soon as the writer starts having a go at the Northern scene. Especially when it comes to the live acts. I've seen more live acts in the last ten years then I did in the whole of the Seventies, Eighties, and Nineties. Where ? On the Northern Soul scene, at Cleethorpes and Prestatyn.

The argument is also flawed regarding it being a Northern Dance scene. That held true back in the Seventies when yes, quite clearly, the emphasis was on the right beat to dance to. Now, nearly thirty years later the Northern Soul scene is a greatly changed animal from those days. But hey ! What do you think those Soul singers made the uptempo records for in the first place ? Guess what ? They were made for people to dance to !

Trotting out the old one about the DJs being more important than the artists is also a flawed argument. In the environment where the records were being heard, a dance hall, of course the DJs were the most important pivitol figure involved. It wasn't a group of black guys from 5000 miles away standing on the stage singing was it ? If the artists had been available to perform the songs live, they would have been the most important factor, but quite simply they weren't, so the person playing the records became the focus.

To be honest, having re-read the article again, it's a pretty mediocre piece of work, starts well, and then loses it's way completely in a morass of biased and miscomprehended assertions.

4 out of 10

Bang on the money Dave! If anyone sets themselves up with an article like this, it has to be bloody good, and quite frankly this just isn't.

Nothing personal. Regards, Steve.

[Baz Atkinson]

very interesting article for an outsider who"s very limited knowledge and perception of a scene in decline is totally wrong.No mention of the growing international soul scene and the fact that is gathering real mommentum.I do agree with some of the points raised "I saw the dells and yes it was a dissapointment but how many northern fans have truely looked at their work in depth?

The insular nature of the British scene and egos of djs with an empasis on rarity,well f-k me your causing a sensation there,these very principles particulary the emphasis on turning over quality rare tunes have kept the scene fresh and evigorating ,as for the egos of djs well ofcourse but that has more to do with human failings then the UK soul scene,for every ego maniac dj there is genuine goodness ie take the gesture of lifeline to help Tommy Tate,real action to help out a fellow soul brother.

You main ommission is the friendship and support network buildup over 40 years or so the music overlapping into our lifes and fantastic freinships build,oh and the fun of it all as well,id say welcome to soul source and thanks for reigniting a debate which we have continually discussed on here and at nighters since the late seventies,id say your a little late in your observations perhaps 25 years,since when has the scene been equated to contempory record sales,it is a rare scene,an insular scene and a genre obsessed scene thats the point!

BAZ A

[Dave Thorley]

the writer is without a doubt causing a stir and certainaly has a axe to grind with northern soul, that is there to see especially the age old what about the artist(it is nobodies fault they were ripped of by their labels and managers except their own)the djs and promoters(not bootleggers they are and always will be scum) in this counrty actually generate a lot of interest for artists(look at the amount who come on here telling their stories and not one seems to give a shit about what has gone, but seem thrilled there is still a people playing their music,my mum said to me once, they dont have, any good singers anymore not like ella fitzgerald etc etc, this was said when i was playing linda jones??? and that sums it up we all stick in our time warps and memory zones and dont move on from our youth if you search u tube mr waters u will found soul music from today by young people not rap or r+b rot but soul ,is it soul you like, most likely not because its from a young persons point of view and not from our youth........taking a wild guess here but are you the john waters that used do do radio and telly and was famous ????? for having contradictory views

Sadly that great John Walters is dead, a great broadcaster and producer of the John Peel show.

As for soul music being dead, this was recorded in Detroit just last year, as soulful as you like.

Funk Factor-Give what you got-Che

[Guest rachel]

Perhaps an introduction might be prudent John

Especially in light of your early posting

New members shout section....................

just a thought

M.

Yep can you please do an intro John - https://www.soul-source.co.uk/index.php?showforum=44

Thanks

[Reforee]

Soul music is Dead??? I'm taking up archealogy!!! Hang on a minute I have spent my adult life diggin up old soul records, no change there then, so whats new?

Soul music has never appealled to the masses as a whole, even when it did, some parties decried this as sacrilage.

While the quantity is not what it used to be I would not concede quality is not still about, you just have to look harder.

The demise of live acts in the main is because artists do not need to tour to make money or indeed take their product to the masses........the internet does this for them now.

Soul music is Dead....Not in my book or even in my record room, for those who think it is, then please leave me your soul records in your will, I am sure there is loads I dont have or even heard yet!

Dave Halsall

[gazman]

John

I'm not sure I get the point of your post 'Soul music is dead'.

I don't normally get involved in such debates however this one has riled me slightly. Are you stating the creation of Soul Music is dead or the love of Soul music is dead?

"I have no doubt that there are many who would argue that Soul music is still very much alive and kicking and refer to artistes such as Alicia Keys, Jon Legend and Maxwell etc to prove their point.

Whilst it is true that all the above have a soulful delivery they can never be mentioned as being true Soul artists in the tradition of the past masters such as Otis Redding, James Carr, Bobby Womack, Pickett or Aretha."

WHAT IS SOUL, what makes a true SOUL ARTIST? Surely Soul is a feeling, a passion, something you have but certainly a lot more than a 'style of delivery'. I think it's a hugely sweeping statement to suggest no modern acts can ever achieve the SOUL of Redding, Womack or Aretha. Soul is something you have or don't as the case me be!

As pointed out by others on this thread there have been many, many contemporary soul releases where the SOUL is real and touching.

"But what of 'Northern Soul' you may ask? What indeed? A scene obsessed purely with the 'danceability' factor of a record rather than the soulful content."

Ray Pollard's Drifter, The Soul Bros, Inc Pyramid two records out of many that ooze SOUL. Records I can happily tuck my self onto the corner of a dance floor and lose my self in the SOUL. I accept that there are many people who are 'into' NS for the dancing only and attend functions solely for this purpose but you forget one thing in the above statement it is about the music, it's the SOULful content that inspires you to dance this is what SOUL is about, it moves you!!

So are you asking is the creation of Soul Music dead or is the love of Soul Music dead?

The whole 'northern' scene has become a sad parody of itself. The days of discovering new delights on vinyl are long past. There were great successes in the early seventies. Tracks such as The Right Track, Hit and Run and of course, Do I love You etc have all passed into folklore, but the well has now run dry. How many new gems are left to be uncovered after forty years? Precious few, I fear!

I really can't get my head around this, where and when does it become a parody? To me this would be people trying to create music, NEW NORTHERN SOUL because we've run out?! (Yes with the exception of IL) Tom Jones is a parody - someone who is trying to re-capture or hold onto something he no longer has!!!

Like you I've been enjoying SOUL music for many, many years, perhaps you're looking in the wrong place but personally I 'discover' new 'Gems' almost every day! There's enough tunes out there to keep everyone amused for a long time. THE WELL HAS NOT RUN DRY!!

The rest of you article lost me....sorry!

I'm not sure what you were expecting to happen with you post, be prepared for a lashing from some. I personally think it would heve been better presented as a series of questions rather than statements!

You are very welcome here there is more knowledge and music than you can shake a stick at. I hope you take time to enjoy it.

gary

[Guest thenogger]

SOUL MUSIC WILL NEVER F**KIN' DIE,

NEVER EVER.

thenogger

[Guest rachel]

Childish insults removed

[Guest in town Mikey]

All musical genres change over time.

The RnB of today bears no resemblance to the stuff I hear form the late 50s early sixties. None at all. But I'm sure some clever person could track the links from then to now.

Why should soul music be any different? If Motown was still chucking out Tears Of a Clown, or Get Ready type tunes, they'd have stopped trading because each generation needs to make music their own brand.

Punk Rock is no different. I went to see many of the bands in their heyday of my teens. I also went to see my god son play in his punk band last weekend. I was chatting to some of the guys I used to go to gigs with, and it is SO different to what we remember of UK Subs, The Damned etc. But it is the punk of today.

The youth of every generation have to style their music on their lives. Why would a black kid from Dalston look to the Detroit Riots, if he is working in a bank, and singing as a hobby, hoping for a career? Why would a black girl with 20 white subordinates bemoan a lack of the chance to progress denied her by the colour of her skin, when in this days employers can be locked up and fined? They cant, so they adapt their songs and rhythmns to areas that mean something to them.

There will always be soul music. Northern Soul's strength is it has been largely kept underground so popularity doesnt come with blanket radio coverage. the records have to stand on their own meirts to make it. But then Northern Soul is a step away from mainstream soul music. Soul isnt unique in having sub genres. Punk again, would anyone class XTC or the Stranglers in the same mould as De-mob or the Expolited? Totally different, but of the same cloth.

The Northern Soul of today would shock many who left the scene in 1974. But thats because our music has evolved with the introduction of slower, more soulful tracks that in the early 70s, might have been overlooked for a more dancable beat.

There is nothing wrong with evolution, and people will champion it. There is nothing wrong with nostalgia, and others will champion that. Maybe the N S scene is unique in having such a strong progressive sub culture (One that the originator of the thread would seem to have completely missed), hell bent on preserving the nostalgic rhythms of the 60s (and 70s). 60s Newies wouldnt make much sense in most other genres (I am making a massive assumption about music scenes I know nothing about). But then I went to see a Rockabilly band in Camden a few years ago, and they were stuck in a Bluegrass timewarp, singing of things in todays world, so maybe we arent as unique as I would like to think we are.

Edited February 27, 2009 by in town Mikey

[Guest Beeks]

All musical genres change over time.

The RnB of today bears no resemblance to the stuff I hear form the late 50s early sixties. None at all. But I'm sure some clever person could track the links from then to now.

Why should soul music be any different? If Motown was still chucking out Tears Of a Clown, or Get Ready type tunes, they'd have stopped trading because each generation needs to make music their own brand.

Punk Rock is no different. I went to see many of the bands in their heyday of my teens. I also went to see my god son play in his punk band last weekend. I was chatting to some of the guys I used to go to gigs with, and it is SO different to what we remember of UK Subs, The Damned etc. But it is the punk of today.

The youth of every generation have to style their music on their lives. Why would a black kid from Dalston look to the Detroit Riots, if he is working in a bank, and singing as a hobby, hoping for a career? Why would a black girl with 20 white subordinates bemoan a lack of the chance to progress denied her by the colour of her skin, when in this days employers can be locked up and fined? They cant, so they adapt their songs and rhythmns to areas that mean something to them.

There will always be soul music. Northern Soul's strength is it has been largely kept underground so popularity doesnt come with blanket radio coverage. the records have to stand on their own meirts to make it. But then Northern Soul is a step away from mainstream soul music. Soul isnt unique in having sub genres. Punk again, would anyone class XTC or the Stranglers in the same mould as De-mob or the Expolited? Totally different, but of the same cloth.

The Northern Soul of today would shock many who left the scene in 1974. But thats because our music has evolved with the introduction of slower, more soulful tracks that in the early 70s, might have been overlooked for a more dancable beat.

There is nothing wrong with evolution, and people will champion it. There is nothing wrong with nostalgia, and others will champion that. Maybe the N S scene is unique in having such a strong progressive sub culture, hell bent on preserving the nostalgic rhythms of the 60s (and 70s). 60s Newies wouldnt make much sense in most other genres (I am making a massive assumption about music scenes I know nothing about). But then I went to see a Rockabilly band in Camden a few years ago, and they were stuck in a Bluegrass timewarp, singing of things in todays world, so maybe we arent as unique as I would like to think we are.

Excellent post Mikey

[Guest in town Mikey]

Excellent post Mikey

Cheers beeks.

Actually one thing from that Punk gig. I'd not seen a guy for about 15-20 years (Used to occasinally come to Yate) and he asked about Northern Soul, and said "Dont you get bored just listening to Judy Street and Dobie Gray all the time?

I tried to tell him about all the new discoveries and stuff, but left it as his eyes glazed over.

Edited February 27, 2009 by in town Mikey

[Sebastian]

XTC

Creepy... I had their "When You're Near Me I Have Difficulty" blasting out of my speakers when I read your post!

[Chris L]

There will always be soul music.

Exactly

[ajb]

having just read through the latest Soul Brother Records catalog, soul is for from dead, in fact a very long way a way.

alan

[Ged Parker]

The item was written as a personal observation of the state of Soul music today. the 'northern' remarks were only one part of that. I did not insult anybody! I say it as I see it!!

I have been attending clubs and concerts since the mid sixties. Over the years I have seen hundreds of acts and been to clubs all over the country (and outside of it) to hear the music I love.

I have supported Soul music in any way that I can by parting with my hard earned cash supporting artists by attending concerts and buying product,

I have been to many northern events and believe it or not actually enjoyed myself at many!

I believe that many (I say many not all!) northern fans are simply there to dance and not really concerned any further that that. I have no problem with people enjoying themselves and dancing is a great way to do that.

Perhaps I can demonstrate what I mean. A couple of years ago myself and some friends went to see Lou Pride at a small venue in Leicester called The Musician. I was aware of Lou's work and indeed have a couple of his CD's in my collection. I knew that 'Coming home in the morning' was supposedly a huge record on the northern scene so we left early to get a good seat in the club,expecting the place to be packed.

No more than 30 people turned up! The event was well advertized so how do you explain that? (Lou was excellent by the way)

I know that I have travelled miles to see the artists that I love (and still do).

Artists cannot survive in the present climate without support . This is not endemic to the Uk as the same is true in the US. Promoters will stop bringing artists over if they cannot cover their costs. New product is suffering through lack of money - hence the dirth of recordings with programmed horns and strings.

How long can these artists go on if nobody buys their product or parts with their cash at the door?

I am sorry but the northern scene does little to promote the artists of today and if we do not give our support then Soul muisc is doomed!

This may well be your view John but you have made many false assumptions and a few too many sweeping generalistions. Is soul music what it was in the 60's. No it isn't but Rock and Roll is'nt what it was in the 50's music is always of its time.

Your assertions on the nature of 'Northern Soul' are pertinent only in so much as they highlight the divide between the people who still see it as the scene it was in the 70's and those who seek to keep it moving forward. Please don't tar us all with the same brush, as has been said some of us find that insulting.

Welcome aboard btw