Youngsters On The Scene

[Guest Rowly]

communist!,twat  

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Greetings Comrade Ken!

[Guest]

Without the younger generation taking and developing an interest in this God given music then the "Scene" may fall into an abyss. The majority of people who courted and then fell in love with rare American Soul music are to a degree still active, but how long can that last. To me the harsh reality is that the music we hold dear may become the preserve of a collection of greying individuals.....who remember the "good old days". I for one champion any younger elements that may wish to embrace this fantastic music, then hopefully take it in a continuing forward direction, that this wonderful beast has already taken within my albeit brief association with the scene (25 years). God bless you.........

[Paulb]

Without the younger generation taking and developing an interest in this God given music then the "Scene" may fall into an abyss. The majority of people who courted and then fell in love with rare American Soul music are to a degree still active, but how long can that last. To me the harsh reality is that the music we hold dear may become the preserve of a collection of greying individuals.....who remember the "good old days". I for one champion any younger elements that may wish to embrace this fantastic music, then hopefully take it in a continuing forward direction, that this wonderful beast has already taken within my albeit brief association with the scene (25 years). God bless you.........

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Amen!

[Guest]

Without the younger generation taking and developing an interest in this God given music then the "Scene" may fall into an abyss. The majority of people who courted and then fell in love with rare American Soul music are to a degree still active, but how long can that last. To me the harsh reality is that the music we hold dear may become the preserve of a collection of greying individuals.....who remember the "good old days". I for one champion any younger elements that may wish to embrace this fantastic music, then hopefully take it in a continuing forward direction, that this wonderful beast has already taken within my albeit brief association with the scene (25 years). God bless you.........

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HALLELUJAH - 32 years in my case

[Ian Williams]

HALLELUJAH - 32 years in my case

but your friends in Swindon and Bristol believe you are in your early thirties Norma..........were you into Soul before Andy Pandy and Hectors House?!!!

Fancy a trip to Bristol via Swindon for a GETTING TOGETHER night?

Regards

Ian and Clare x

[Tubbs]

In Aberdeen we moved to a new venue in April. It only opened it's doors in Feb and i'd known the owner for a number of years due to him also owning a second hand record shop. He asked us to move our soul nites to his venue saying he'd be able to add another 50 people to our attendance stating that the younger crowd wouldn't go to our last venue as it wasn't the 'in' place to go for a 20 year old. He actually underestimated how much would turn up as we had 220 through the door and another 60 or 70 who couldn't get in. Prob only bout 80 people of that were regulars at our last venue so the rest was made up of mainly 20 to 30 year olds and for me it created a great night as they filled the dancefloor all night. The owner said he hadn;t had as much feedback from his regulars as he had had that night saying it was the best night they'd had in ages. Our next one is next week and if it's half as good as the last one then i'll be happy. Time will tell if they keep coming back< i've got my fingers crossed that they do.

[Guest]

HALLELUJAH - 32 years in my case

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What!since you last went to a nighter

[Guest Brian J]

Was in Prestwich one night and ventured into the modern room, where I was soon befriended by a young girl of around 17/18.

Being the gentleman I am, I resisted any blatant flirting and took her as a new found friend.

The following month I saw the same girl and we greeted each other like long time mates. In fact she spent no time at all introducing me to all her similar aged friends as her new cool soul mate.

After a while I excused myself from their company and told them I'd be on the dancefloor just as you walk in the main room.

Before long they all streamed in with their pint glasses and bottles of lager etc. and started to attempt some moves more akin to an end of term student bash, as opposed to anything soul.

There again, does it really matter? They at least got up and enjoyed themselves.

The problem I had, alongside others in the viccinity, was the drinks being spilled, without any noticable regard to others, all over the floor.

So I had a good think about how I could advise them, without comin' over as an arsehole. My new soul mate was the obvious one to approach, so with a big smile, I went over to her and said 'why don't you put your drink on the table next to mine, nobody will pinch it and it'll save you spillin' it all over the dancefloor.'

The evil glare I got was exactly the one I was tryin' to avoid, accompanied by a quick spin over to her mates to relate what 'that old wanker had just come out with'.

The idolisation I'd got from my new soul mate suddenly turned into blatant mockery and instant disassociation.

After my initial feelings of despondancy and pensionable acumen I regained my self esteem, danced right in their faces with a f*** you attitude punctuated with a rethink about so much for tryin' to attempt any type of mutual aplomb with delinquants!

At least it got the arrogant, disrespectful little shits off the dancefloor.

Well worth the shortlived anxiety I suffered.

[Guest katep]

Another problem with Northern Soul is the cost of the records. Most teenagers or people in there 20's cannot afford to spend £500 on a record like some people do, (me included).

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Eh??????

IMO I don't think this comment should really be directed at just these people alone. A person's wealth/ income or if they are willing to fork out £500 on a record is surely not down to their age. Obviously the majority of teenagers are not likely to have the earning potential that a group of the same number of say thirty+ somethings would have. But I know plenty of people in there 20's earning a damn sight more than the 30, 40, 50 year olds I know.

Take last night for example a fella (40-50yrs) was buying records off a friend of mine. It turned out that this bloke's occupation was a big issue seller. I can guarantee that my 20yr old friends can afford the travel to the venue, the entry fee, the drinks and the vinyl more than this fella can. If people want to afford these things they will.

Plus not everyone on the scene collects records. I have 1000's of tracks at my fingertips (on cd's and ipod) and only 5 45's that were given to me as presents. I'm 26yrs and have been into the music and on the scene (so to speak) for the past 10 years. It's not stopped me yet.

And of course fresh blood on the scene is a good thing, but then I'm biased.

With regards to respect, this is something earned as well as something we learn, age doesn't determine this either, so "respect your elders" is a load of tosh. You respect and look after the things you love and appreciate, and anyone who loves this scene (music, dancing and people) as much as we do, will put into it and give it what it truely deserves.

[Guest katep]

Another thing, you don't have to spend a lot of money to own great records. There are plenty of cracking tunes that come at a cost of £10 and £20 and under. The only thing you need to spend is a little time listening to them.

That's one of the pleasures of this scene, finding for yourself little gems that give you goose pimples everytime you listen to it.

Edited May 15, 2005 by katep

[Ged Parker]

Forgive me for not reading all this thread but the question posed is so ludicrous as to be laughable, if that is it wasn't so serious an issue. It may as well have been "tall people on the scene - for them or against them?" or "Office workers - should they be allowed to come to our venues". What the hell does someone's age have to do with anything? Granted some of them may not neccesarily know all the dancefloor etiquete but that is true of any new entrant to the scene. As a fan of a music that was partly fuelled by oppression, inequality and the struggle for civil rights I would not like to see the conditions that helped spawn it recreated.

[Guest]

Rachel - and one for me,   although I am too old to need to be accompanied - I wouldn't mind one anyway

QOF

XX

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Hi ya Chrissie

but so am I, but people dont think Im too old to be accompanied they just think I need to be accompanied anyway - I 'think' that's a good thing??!!!

[Guest katep]

Im talking about getting people flyering in town or putting up posters, not having a northern special on granada tonight. 

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The unfortunate thing about flyering in town before an event is that you are opening yourself up to all the drunken yobs and townies coming in. I'm all for everyone being involved and having a great time, but when you've got people coming in rolling about on the dancefloor (believe me I've seen this, as a result of the bouncers handing out the flyers to anyone, just to get people through the doors) then it's not really on. But then that's the risk you take and doesn't mean that it will happen everywhere or everytime does it?

Perhaps the best way like you did for Chris W, is to have someone who is part of the scene to hand out flyers to those who you may think would enjoy it and appreciate it.

Those people that stand around taking the piss out of the clothes or the dancing are either too embarrassed to try their luck on the floor because a) they can't dance, they don't want to look a fool in front of their mates because that guy over there with the half mast baggy trousers and vest can out perform them with every move and c) they really aren't that interested in the music or the scene.

With the instance a) and if they loved the music and the feel of the place, they will come again (maybe after praticing a few moves in the kitchen- like most of us have at some point) and the piss taking will stop.

If it is c) then the likelihood of them ever coming to another soul do is slim, in which case there's one less piss taker to contend with.

[Guest in town Mikey]

Was in Prestwich one night and ventured into the modern room, where I was soon befriended by a young girl of around 17/18.

Being the gentleman I am, I resisted any blatant flirting and took her as a new found friend.

The following month I saw the same girl and we greeted each other like long time mates. In fact she  spent no time at all introducing me to all her similar aged friends as her new cool soul mate.

After a while I excused myself from their company and told them I'd be on the dancefloor just as you walk in the main room.

Before long they all streamed in with their pint glasses and bottles of lager etc. and started to attempt some moves more akin to an end of term student bash, as opposed to anything soul.

There again, does it really matter? They at least got up and enjoyed themselves.

The problem I had, alongside others in the viccinity, was the drinks being spilled, without any noticable regard to others, all over the floor.

So I had a good think about how I could advise them, without comin' over as an arsehole. My new soul mate was the obvious one to approach, so with a big smile, I went over to her and said 'why don't you put your drink on the table next to mine, nobody will pinch it and it'll save you spillin' it all over the dancefloor.'

The evil glare I got was exactly the one I was tryin' to avoid, accompanied by a quick spin over to her mates to relate what 'that old wanker had just come out with'.

The idolisation I'd got from my new soul mate suddenly turned into blatant mockery and instant disassociation.

After my initial feelings of despondancy and pensionable acumen I regained my self esteem, danced right in their faces with a f*** you attitude punctuated with a rethink about  so much for tryin' to attempt any type of mutual aplomb with delinquants!

At least it got the arrogant, disrespectful little shits off the dancefloor.

Well worth the shortlived anxiety I suffered.

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This is one point where I have had my attitude changed in recent times. A friend was the victim of having her drinks spiked. In her case it was by a couple of girls who spiked a few other girls drinks to 'relieve' them of their money and jewelery. If it had been a guy.........

Imagine a couple of 18 year old girls getting ready for a night out. Having had three years of their parents telling them, "watch your drinks. Dont let anyone near them, and if you arent happy. Leave them and buy another. The consequnces could far outweigh the extra couple of quid".

Then they meet somebody, (probably older than their parents) in a Northern Soul club, who tells them to leave their drinks and he or she will 'look after' them. If that doesnt start the alarm bells ringing, I dont know what would.

I dont like spilt drinks on the dancefloor any more than the next person. But until the new people get used to the clubs, and meet people they can trust, then you have to understand that leaving their drinks with strangers is just not an option. And if the person becomes irritated or even slightly aggressive, then they are even more unlikely to leave their drinks.

And then what do you think the chances are of these people returning?? I'm not picking on you brian, But these "arrogant, disrespectful little shits" could have been in just the scenario I posted. We have to give a little as well. I wasnt there, so perhaps they were arrogant etc. But they might just have been worried or even frightened.

Maybe the way forward would be to point out that spilling drinks is unacceptable, and if they cant leave their drinks with friends they can trust, then could they please at least try to be careful when they are dancing.

I'm not looking for a row, just trying to put the other side of the arguement, that often gets ignored.

Edited May 16, 2005 by in town Mikey

[Guest]

You have to remember that SEX plays a big part in most young people's lives on a Saturday night. This is not something the Northern scene can offer in the same way city clubs can.

Can someone confirm to me the average age at Wigan in its heyday?

Also, can a casino regular inform us what the attitude would have been towards people the same age has their parents sharing dancefloor space?

Shane

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Only Sats?

Think Im glad our scene cannt offer that in the same way, city clubs can, I would never have any space to dance on the dancefloor then!!

[Guest]

With regards to respect, this is something earned as well as something we learn, age doesn't determine this either, so "respect your elders" is a load of tosh. You respect and look after the things you love and appreciate, and anyone who loves this scene (music, dancing and people) as much as we do, will put into it and give it what it truely deserves. 

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Spot on Kate

Steve

[Winnie :-)]

This is one point where I have had my attitude changed in recent times. A friend was the victim of having her drinks spiked. In her case it was by a couple of girls who spiked a few other girls drinks to 'relieve' them of their money and jewelery. If it had been a guy.........

Imagine a couple of 18 year old girls getting ready for a night out. Having had three years of their parents telling them, "watch your drinks. Dont let anyone near them, and if you arent happy. Leave them and buy another. The consequnces could far outweigh the extra couple of quid".

Then they meet somebody, (probably older than their parents) in a Northern Soul club, who tells them to leave their drinks and he or she will 'look after' them. If that doesnt start the alarm bells ringing, I dont know what would.

I dont like spilt drinks on the dancefloor any more than the next person. But until the new people get used to the clubs, and meet people they can trust, then you have to understand that leaving their drinks with strangers is just not an option. And if the person becomes irritated or even slightly aggressive, then they are even more unlikely to leave their drinks.

And then what do you think the chances are of these people returning?? I'm not picking on you brian, But these "arrogant, disrespectful little shits" could have been in just the scenario I posted. We have to give a little as well. I wasnt there, so perhaps they were arrogant etc. But they might just have been worried or even frightened.

Maybe the way forward would be to point out that spilling drinks is unacceptable, and if they cant leave their drinks with friends they can trust, then could they please at least try to be careful when they are dancing.

I'm not looking for a row, just trying to put the other side of the arguement, that often gets ignored.

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Think you're probably right Mikey, Bri deffo has a touch of the Freddie Kreugers about him

[Guest Brian J]

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Think you're probably right Mikey, Bri deffo has a touch of the Freddie Kreugers about him     

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Oy you.......I resemble that remark!

[Guest Brian J]

Maybe the way forward would be to point out that spilling drinks is unacceptable, and if they cant leave their drinks with friends they can trust, then could they please at least try to be careful when they are dancing.

I'm not looking for a row, just trying to put the other side of the arguement, that often gets ignored.

link

==========

Excellent reply Mikey.

I had taken the thought of them getting spiked into consideration at the time, that's why I suggested leaving her drink with mine.

That said though, no matter what I tried to suggest, may, like you said, have rung alarm bells.

[Guest James Trouble]

This thread is a bit silly.

Personally I'd like to see loads of pretty young people on the dance floor, and I have more of a problem at UK soul nights with the Normans spraying loads of talc everywhere for no apparant reason.

At "You Know You Got Soul" we had a 50/50 mix of regular soulies and local youth. Everyone seemed to have a good time.

[Guest]

The problem is that when we look in the mirror we see a cool dancing god with a sartorial dress sense to die for.

Anyone under the age of 25 will look at us and see what we really look like.

It`s just not fair!

I think we should go for the over OAP crowd then WE would look young and lively.

[Paulb]

The problem is that when we look in the mirror we see a cool dancing god with a sartorial dress sense to die for.

Anyone under the age of 25 will look at us and see what we really look like.

It`s just not fair!

I think we should go for the over OAP crowd then WE would look young and lively.

link

I've always looked upon it that you lot are still having it every weekend instead of becoming one of the saddo's who congregate in the local working mens clubs putting your wage into the bandit.

Nothing sad about having a dance to your favourite tunes.

[Guest James Trouble]

Young people these days are not interested in scenes. We learn at school to be free thinking and have our own ideas. The youth will be interested in good music, for good music's sake. If young people are going to get interested in 'soul music' then "Norman Soul" attitudes need to stop, because young people will be revolted by many aspects of what make up "Northern Soul". For example, the whole "remember this, 1978 St Ives, bringing back the memories" is irrelevent to anyone under 40. Young people will be interested in the music for the music's sake, they don't give a shit if it was played at some working man's club in the early 80's, they only want hear a record because it is good, not because they remember it.

I have many good friends on the Northern scene, and the "Northern scene" is the friendliest group of people you could imagine. However, would I be wrong to suggest that many on the scene are now into it for social reasons and not for the music? How many people go out wanting to hear a new record? I think the case for many (most?) is wanting to hear stuff they know and have on a CD at home and have a good chat with thier mates because they're recently devorced and have nothing else to do?

If a young person is there, it is because they want to hear good new music. The "Norman Soul" attitude will not keep hungry young music lovers around for long.

The only way forward is to forget the past and move on, keep things fresh, and the young music lover will stay interested.

If you want the scene to move forward and survive into the next decade I think you should worry less about the 20 year old girls with bottles of beer in their hands because they are scared of putting it down and having a old fat crinkly spiking their drink and getting raped, and there should be more thought about the music that is played, the venues the music is played at and how the music is promoted.

[Paulb]

should be more thought about the music that is played, the venues the music is played at and how the music is promoted.

link

Totally agree. But the sad thing is that in a day or two this thread will slide down the page and get forgotton about and no-one will really take any notice of its content and realise what has to be done.

Edited May 16, 2005 by PaulB

[Guest katep]

I've always looked upon it that you lot are still having it every weekend instead of becoming one of the saddo's who congregate in the local working mens clubs putting your wage into the bandit.

Nothing sad about having a dance to your favourite tunes.

link

Spot on there Paul

I hope I still have the enthuiasm and passion and energy to keep it going like most of the people I've met on the scene.

[Paulb]

Spot on there Paul  

I hope I still have the enthuiasm and passion and energy to keep it going like most of the people I've met on the scene.

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Thats why i wish promoters would tackle this issue because we (the younger crowd) will be the ones who suffer if a few years time.

This is something that means a lot to me. I've been brought up on this music and i want it to carry on as long as possible.

[Guest katep]

The problem is that when we look in the mirror we see a cool dancing god with a sartorial dress sense to die for.

Anyone under the age of 25 will look at us and see what we really look like.

It`s just not fair!

I think we should go for the over OAP crowd then WE would look young and lively.

link

We may not see the satorial dress sense to die for, but we certainly see many dancing gods that we look up to and wish we could dance like. :good:

does my opinion count as I'm 26 not under 25?

[Guest Brian J]

If you want the scene to move forward and survive into the next decade I think you should worry less about the 20 year old girls with bottles of beer in their hands because they are scared of putting it down and having a old fat crinkly spiking their drink and getting raped, and there should be more thought about the music that is played, the venues the music is played at and how the music is promoted.

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======

I wasn't so much bothered about the girl with a bottle in her hand getting it spiked, but more bothered about fuckin' beer all over the dancefloor where I could slip and put myself in traction for a few month.

I can see what you're sayin', although let's get it right....what good is there giving 'thought about the music that is played, the venues the music is played at and how the music is promoted', when your night's gonna be spoiled by an unsafe dancefloor?

[stainless steve]

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I wasn't so much bothered about the girl with a bottle in her hand getting it spiked, but more bothered about fuckin' beer all over the dancefloor where I could slip and put myself in traction for a few month.

I can see what you're sayin', although let's get it right....what good is there giving 'thought about the music that is played, the venues the music is played at and how the music is promoted', when your night's gonna be spoiled by an unsafe dancefloor?

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[/quote

There's a lot of good points on this thread Bri, and whilst I can understand the dangers of 'idiots' spiking peoples drinks etc.. I don't blame you for getting mad .

No-one should have to 'negotiate' their way round the dance floor until they find a 'beer free' spot! You go out with the intention of having a bloody good time and shouldn't have to spend precious dance time looking for a safe place to dance!

I dont know.. the youth of today..

[Winnie :-)]

Young people these days are not interested in scenes. We learn at school to be free thinking and have our own ideas. The youth will be interested in good music, for good music's sake. If young people are going to get interested in 'soul music' then "Norman Soul" attitudes need to stop, because young people will be revolted by many aspects of what make up "Northern Soul". For example, the whole "remember this, 1978 St Ives, bringing back the memories" is irrelevent to anyone under 40. Young people will be interested in the music for the music's sake, they don't give a shit if it was played at some working man's club in the early 80's, they only want hear a record because it is good, not because they remember it.

I have many good friends on the Northern scene, and  the "Northern scene" is the friendliest group of people you could imagine. However, would I be wrong to suggest that many on the scene are now into it for social reasons and not for the music? How many people go out wanting to hear a new record? I think the case for many (most?) is wanting to hear stuff they know and have on a CD at home and have a good chat with thier mates because they're recently devorced and have nothing else to do?

If a young person is there, it is because they want to hear good new music. The "Norman Soul" attitude will not keep hungry young music lovers around for long.

The only way forward is to forget the past and move on, keep things fresh, and the young music lover will stay interested.

If you want the scene to move forward and survive into the next decade I think you should worry less about the 20 year old girls with bottles of beer in their hands because they are scared of putting it down and having a old fat crinkly spiking their drink and getting raped, and there should be more thought about the music that is played, the venues the music is played at and how the music is promoted.

link

===========

I think your last paragraph is way over the top, and your description ..... "A fat old crinkly" indicative of how YOU see people on the northern scene. No one is denying that it is potentially dangerous to leave a drink unattended these days, but to just site 20 year old girls as being possibly in danger is as stupid as just siting "Fat old crinklys". Do you not realise that if we attract 20 year old men to northern do's then the instances of drink spiking would go up. I'm not saying that ALL youngsters are potential rapists, because that would mirror, what seems to be your mentality, but date rape drugs are far more prevalent in clubs frequented mainly by the young.

I would agree that the scene is more social now, than it has ever been, but have you ever considered that that, may be its natural progression. I really think you need to take a step back James, and take stock of yourself and the things you say, you're a very offensive boy, who tries to belittle the northern scene at every opportunity.

Winnie:-)

[Guest James Trouble]

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I think your last paragraph is way over the top, and your description ..... "A fat old crinkly" indicative of how YOU see people on the northern scene. No one is denying that it is potentially dangerous to leave a drink unattended these days, but to just site 20 year old girls as being possibly in danger is as stupid as just siting "Fat old crinklys". Do you not realise that if we attract 20 year old men to northern do's then the instances of drink spiking would go up. I'm not saying that ALL youngsters are potential rapists, because that would mirror, what seems to be your mentality, but date rape drugs are far more prevalent in clubs frequented mainly by the young.

I would agree that the scene is more social now, than it has ever been, but have you ever considered that that, may be its natural progression. I really think you need to take a step back James, and take stock of yourself and the things you say, you're a very offensive boy, who tries to belittle the northern scene at every opportunity.

Winnie:-)

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I didn't say that's how I see it, did I? I said that's how 20 year girls may see it. It is not the norm for people to leave drinks around in the real world, and if the drink is not a pint and it's not sloshing all over the floor, I don't see what the problem is, and it hardly needs to be met with aggresion, does it?

Winnie, you knwo me a bit, so I ask you, when have you ever known me to offend anybody, apart from once or twice on here by having my own opinions? So I don't think you're right to call me a "very offencive boy", do you?

[Guest catface]

I think a lot of the older crowd need to change their attitudes. All of this dance floor etiquette nonsense - the only thing that would be unacceptable is the spilt beer. I love going to soul nights but I have hardly ever had the courage to get up and dance and maybe some of the reason for that is all the established dancers not looking too friendly at the new people like myself. If new people are going to enjoy it how about more places where you can learn the moves?!! It is very intimidating to watch good dancers and be dying to get off your chair but not be confident. I went to Trickster's lessons which were really good fun evenings but there needs to be someone taking it up now he has stopped doing them. Northern Soul dancing is unique. You cannot just get up and dance as you would in a nightclub and surely everyone knows that. Please don't anyone just say 'get up and have a go' as it is not as easy as that.

[Guest rachel]

There's a lot of good points on this thread Bri, and whilst I can understand the dangers of 'idiots' spiking peoples drinks etc.. I don't blame you for getting mad .

No-one should have to 'negotiate' their way round the dance floor until they find a 'beer free' spot! You go out with the intention of having a bloody good time and shouldn't have to spend precious dance time looking for a safe place to dance!

I dont know.. the youth of today..

link

I've actually been in quite a few 'normal' clubs (not recently mind you) where drinks/ smoking wasn't allowed on the dancefloor. Just common decency really not to make your fellow dancers sticky/ burnt...

[Winnie :-)]

I didn't say that's how I see it, did I? I said that's how 20 year girls may see it. It is not the norm for people to leave drinks around in the real world, and if the drink is not a pint and it's not sloshing all over the floor, I don't see what the problem is, and it hardly needs to be met with aggresion, does it?

Winnie, you knwo me a bit, so I ask you, when have you ever known me to offend anybody, apart from once or twice on here by having my own opinions? So I don't think you're right to call me a "very offencive boy", do you?

link

=======

James,

I was trying to put across that using the term "Fat old crinkly" is offensive, because it seemed to be your generalisation. Of course I WASN'T in the right to call you an "very offensive boy", and of course you should have your own opinions and voice them, I was illustrating how easy it is to write something and cause offence.

For the record, I think you're an ok guy, but IMO sometimes when you're writing something you need to look at your wording.

Soz if I caused offence.

Winnie:)

[Guest]

James - behave!

[stainless steve]

I've actually been in quite a few 'normal' clubs (not recently mind you) where drinks/ smoking wasn't allowed on the dancefloor. Just common decency really not to make your fellow dancers sticky/ burnt... 

link

Hear..Hear!! Totally agree with you. I myself have been the victim of ciggie burns and it hurts a lot!! also been unfortunate to fall (cringe!) on a beer spilt floor (quite a few times..ooh the shame!) although only my pride was hurt.

[Dave]

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I think your last paragraph is way over the top, and your description ..... "A fat old crinkly" indicative of how YOU see people on the northern scene. No one is denying that it is potentially dangerous to leave a drink unattended these days, but to just site 20 year old girls as being possibly in danger is as stupid as just siting "Fat old crinklys". Do you not realise that if we attract 20 year old men to northern do's then the instances of drink spiking would go up. I'm not saying that ALL youngsters are potential rapists, because that would mirror, what seems to be your mentality, but date rape drugs are far more prevalent in clubs frequented mainly by the young.

I would agree that the scene is more social now, than it has ever been, but have you ever considered that that, may be its natural progression. I really think you need to take a step back James, and take stock of yourself and the things you say, you're a very offensive boy, who tries to belittle the northern scene at every opportunity.

Winnie:-)

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I don't quite get that Win

I thought James was suggesting a previous poster was worrying too much about drinks being spiked?

I would suggest that "fat old crinkly" is how a LOT of younger punters see it, especially when they go for the first time....and the term fancy dress might easily have been used (see beer towel thread )

I thought when this thread started last week something useful might come out of it i.e. some way of attracting more youngsters to the scene and therefore keeping it healthier for longer.....and James has just reiterated what I said on Friday about venues, promotion etc...... but it ain't gonna happen if we get indignant every time a younger member makes a suggestion that we perceive to be "disrespectful"

I've already seen today a poster talking about "keeping the faith", and winced ..... let's keep an open mind, eh?

Dave

[Guest]

I think a lot of the older crowd need to change their attitudes.  All of this dance floor etiquette nonsense - the only thing that would be unacceptable is the spilt beer.  I love going to soul nights but I have hardly ever had the courage to get up and dance and maybe some of the reason for that is all the established dancers not looking too friendly at the new people like myself.  If new people are going to enjoy it how about more places where you can learn the moves?!!  It is very intimidating to watch good dancers and be dying to get off your chair but not be confident.  I went to Trickster's lessons which were really good fun evenings but there needs to be someone taking it up now he has stopped doing them.  Northern Soul dancing is unique.  You cannot just get up and dance as you would in a nightclub and surely everyone knows that.  Please don't anyone just say 'get up and have a go' as it is not as easy as that.

link

Learn moves?

Practice?

I`ll have you know you young wippersnapper that us old codgers were born knowing how to dance northern, we never practiced, we just heard the beat and that was that.

Mums kitchen was always my favourite place to try out a few moves.

The best teacher was always ann fettermine, she would never let you sit down.

On a serious note I know its an old cliche but no one will mind how you dance so long as you are enjoying the music.

I`ve been making a twat of myself on the dancefloor for years!

[Guest]

Hear..Hear!! Totally agree with you. I myself have been the victim of ciggie burns and it hurts a lot!! also been unfortunate to fall (cringe!) on a beer spilt floor (quite a few times..ooh the shame!) although only my pride was hurt.

link

Genuinley not trying to be clever here, but are you saying that the burns and beer spills

were down to young soul fans or just some thick twats of any age who don't know what they are doing.

Steve

[Guest]

ANYONE with a drink (same goes for lighted cigarettes) in their hand that looks like they think of approaching the dancefloor at a northern/rare soul event should be told not to do so. If this does not work they must be physically prevented from doing it or simply removed from the venue without any further ado. It is not OK with people spilling liquid all over the floor and behaving like arseholes in general. Young and old, or whoever wants to attend should be allowed to do so but it must be on 'our' terms and any outsider must be respectful of our ways and customs. At our monthly soul night we always get some outsiders since it is open to the public and occasionally some don't know how to behave. As long as they don't bother any dancers or take up more space than necessary and keeps drinks and such off the floor it is OK. Whenever I see someone crossing the line I politely tell them, either in person or over the mic, to stop whatever unwanted behaviour they might be engaged in. If this doesn't work we will have them thrown out. I recall once when a guy who ran like a moron across the dancefloor and behaved generally silly was thrown on the floor and then one of our regulars came up to him punched him in the belly and said "I think it is time for you to go home now". The funny thing is that even after this heavy handed treatment they guy came back the next time (would you have?!) and has since been one of our most faithful regulars. Age has nothing to do with anything IMO. Any sane person can behave properly if they want to. I also think JT is wrong about young people not being interested in scenes. They might not be interested in northern as a scene but loads of kids are in to various scenes and subcultures.

[Winnie :-)]

I've actually been in quite a few 'normal' clubs (not recently mind you) where drinks/ smoking wasn't allowed on the dancefloor. Just common decency really not to make your fellow dancers sticky/ burnt... 

link

===========

This isn't aimed at you Rach, cos I can't remember if you do or don't use talc. Just chose your post to make the point

It would also be nice if people didn't wantonly throw talc all over the floor, not ALL of us use it

Winnie:-)

[stainless steve]

Genuinley not trying to be clever here, but are you saying that the burns and beer spills

were down to young soul fans or just some thick twats of any age who don't know what they are doing.

Steve

link

No, not just young ones, in fact.. Ive been burnt by some folk I know!, (although unintenionally). It'd be better if the fags were left in the ashtray etc..

Mrs Dospan (aka Kaz)

Edited May 16, 2005 by dospan

[Pete S]

It may as well have been "tall people on the scene - for them or against them?" or "Office workers - should they be allowed to come to our venues".

link

I say no, I hate those tall bastards

[Guest]

ANYONE with a drink (same goes for lighted cigarettes) in their hand that looks like they think of approaching the dancefloor at a northern/rare soul event should be told not to do so. If this does not work they must be physically prevented from doing it or simply removed from the venue without any further ado. It is not OK with people spilling liquid all over the floor and behaving like arseholes in general. Young and old, or whoever wants to attend should be allowed to do so but it must be on 'our' terms and any outsider must be respectful of our ways and customs. At our monthly soul night we always get some outsiders since it is open to the public and occasionally some don't know how to behave. As long as they don't bother any dancers or take up more space than necessary and keeps drinks and such off the floor it is OK. Whenever I see someone crossing the line I politely tell them, either in person or over the mic, to stop whatever unwanted behaviour they might be engaged in. If this doesn't work we will have them thrown out. I recall once when a guy who ran like a moron across the dancefloor and behaved generally silly was thrown on the floor and then one of our regulars came up to him punched him in the belly and said "I think it is time for you to go home now". The funny thing is that even after this heavy handed treatment they guy came back the next time (would you have?!) and has since been one of our most faithful regulars.     Age has nothing to do with anything IMO. Any sane person can behave properly if they want to. I also think JT is wrong about young people not being interested in scenes. They might not be interested in northern as a scene but loads of kids are in to various scenes and subcultures.

link

So its okay as long as everybody obeys orders then ?

[Guest]

I say no, I hate those tall bastards 

link

[Guest]

So its okay as long as everybody obeys orders then ? 

link

Yes. Obey or face the violent consequences. Sounds like a warm and friendly place eh? Been thinking of opening up a branch of our club in North Korea.

[Guest]

No, not just young ones, in fact.. Ive been burnt by some folk I know!, (although unintenionally). It'd  be better if the fags were left in the ashtray etc..

Mrs Dospan (aka Kaz)

link

Hi Kaz,

Thats what I was getting at, don't think the youger ones would burn anybody intentionally either. Its just that some people were obviously in there 40's when they were born, presumably with implanted memories about etiquette, Wigan, gear etc etc.

Perhaps Arnold Schwarzenneger and Sharon Stone could make a film about it. How about calling it 'Total Recall'

(or more appropriatley 'True Lies' )

Steve

[Guest]

Yes. Obey or face the violent consequences. Sounds like a warm and friendly place eh?   Been thinking of opening up a branch of our club in North Korea.

link

[Guest James Trouble]

=======

James,

I was trying to put across that using the term "Fat old crinkly" is offensive, because it seemed to be your generalisation. Of course I WASN'T in the right to call you an "very offensive boy", and of course you should have your own opinions and voice them, I was illustrating how easy it is to write something and cause offence.

For the record, I think you're an ok guy, but IMO sometimes when you're writing something you need to look at your wording.

Soz if I caused offence.

Winnie:)

link

No offence taken. I know how I ment my wording, but it is sometimes easy to read words differently to how they are written, especially if they are written by dyslexics like me.

My thinking is the majority of people on the northern scene in the UK are in it for social reasons. They are happy because it gives them some records they know to socialise to. This is great for those people, and why should they want to change?

This is not belittling anybody.

But why should they want to change the status quo? This is where the conflict arises between the people who are there expecting to hear new music and the people who are there to hear records they know.

I think the that the only way new people are going to get involved is because of the music, they will discover northern because it gives them new exciting music. So in my opinion the only way to keep things going into the future is to concentrate on keeping the music top quality, the venues top quality and the promotion top quality.

If this does not happen then social and musical 'inbreeding' will occor.

20 year girls on the dance floor with bottles of beer in their hand is hardly a major problem IMVFHO.

But it is worth remembering that there are venues out there that cater for everybody. So whether you are looking for a club to meet all your old pals and dance away to Wigan's Chosen Few, hear the latest new discoveries (I can't remember the number of 'new' records I heard at the 100 on Saturday!!!) or hang around with a youthful crowd (Deepfunk is on every Friday), there is a club out there to meet most people's demands.

[Winnie :-)]

I don't quite get that Win

I thought James was suggesting a previous poster was worrying too much about drinks being spiked?

I would suggest that "fat old crinkly" is how a LOT of younger punters see it, especially when they go for the first time....and the term fancy dress might easily have been used (see beer towel thread )

I thought when this thread started last week something useful might come out of it i.e. some way of attracting more youngsters to the scene and therefore keeping it healthier for longer.....and James has just reiterated what I said on Friday about venues, promotion etc...... but it ain't gonna happen if we get indignant every time a younger member makes a suggestion that we perceive to be "disrespectful"

I've already seen today a poster talking about "keeping the faith", and winced    ..... let's keep an open mind, eh?

Dave

link

=======

Dave,

If the point of the post was to promote forward thinking, then that's what it should stick to. To either generalise or sensationalise a post by writing something like "a old fat crinkly spiking their drink and getting raped", is just colouring the real issue, and in my view offensive. If you/I anybody writes something we're responsible for it surely. It's all about wording, and this forum is open to the public to read...personally I don't want to be associated with James's tag, do you?

James's age by the way, has nothing to do with it, I mentioned it, because it was the easiest way to illustrate how easily offence can be caused.

Winnie:-)