Northern Northern Soul V

[Dave]

When I worked in New Cross I went to some of the Millwall games. Had to laugh when they sang' Dirty Northern B*st*rds' at the Shrewsbury team. 

link

Don't start with the footie Steve or we might as well give up on the original idea now

[Guest]

Agree thats probably absolutely true.  Personally I think we should all have to wear regional dress.  then we could know who not to talk to.  Can you lot spin in your clogs?

Being from the home cunties  I shall, of course, be resplendent in a blazer, comfortable slacks and some suede shoes.

link

Youre not a Cock- Nee then Stuart. Up here, we thought the Bow(Beau) Bells could be heard all over Southern England.

[Guest rachel]

Not sure that you can generalise into north and south - have been to soul nights from Inverness to Brighton... do notice some differences in styles/ tunes played in different areas but I suppose that's inevitable in a way, a lot of DJs tend to play mostly in their local area and will influence each other. Was in Brighton and London last year and heard a lot of stuff that I knew but didn't hear in Scotland... and some that I didn't know but were popular down there because several DJs locally had been playing them. Maybe there's more 'oldies' nights in the North (of England) simply because there are more nights there overall?

[Guest]

Don't start with the footie Steve or we might as well give up on the original idea now  

link

Good point.

I withdraw that post. Please ignore.

Steve

[jocko]

PLEASE tell us it's not too far North Andy!!!!

link

As far North as you like please, I dont travel as well anymore!!!

Interesting post, sadly missed the London renaissance of the 90's although always ventured down the 100 club, Midlands was place in 80's, nothing to beat it (apart from the occassional Scottish flourish obviously ) so maybe the North East is the place now?? I actually think its the size of the venues rather than the location that impacts on upfrontness (new word), its obvious reading on here some guys believe in trying something different regardless of their location, which I love about promoters, however as Stevie says, not a job I envy.

Sadly too often now I go somewhere, on the rare occassions I do, because I know a good crowd of friends will be there and therefore have little expectations of the music, last week at Stoke being an example where my expectations were sadly met, but have been pleasantly surprised at the Lifelines, maybe I need to get out more, back to my original plea, as far up north as you like please!!!

Yours wistfully

Jock

[Guest Soultown andy]

Nice one stuart,will be back to this after ive walked the whippet and had me tripe supper m8.

[Guest Stuart T]

When I worked in New Cross I went to some of the Millwall games. Had to laugh when they sang' Dirty Northern B*st*rds' at the Shrewsbury team. 

link

Those comedic Bermondsey scallywags, brings a tear to my eye!

What they don't seem to want to remember is McMillwall was originally the works team from a Scottish jam factory, and I understand that Scotland is even further north than Shrewsbury (wherever that is). Anyhow, bloody immigrants etc etc

[Simsy]

What thread was you reading Ian on NCSC to come up with the playlists????I think it will be harder and harder to be cutting edge and still provide quality and get enough people through the dor and still keep everyone happy .."A promoters job is not a happy one"..Good topic...There are so many nights now to hear many different styles from Lincoln to North Wales and Portsmouth to Aberdeen..I don' think the north /south thing is what it was a few years back..We have inside toilets up here now and listening to smooth mid tempo southern soul,well some of us...The tradional northern soul nights are still up here but so are the more progressive ones too..Did the Southern sound mean London/south coast and then the rest???Birmingham/Bristol/Cambridge etc are very south were all these put in the northern stable??...Good topic indeed...Over the years it was the tradional northern towns for me and London,aint too sure what was going on elsewhere....The sound of Kent in the 80s brought a lot of us together,that was the sound we all first started listening to...up-tempo,deep soul ballads,stompers etc,it was all just soul to us,nothing to do with north or south...I did notice a big difference when i started going to the 100 club..It was deeper more mid tempo than most northern club nights, and sound that i really took to but not others as much...Kent and Stafford really paved the way for us in the 80s and it was a breath of fresh air that kept us on the soul scene...Could go on and on about this thing i love   But i will take a break...

link

1.It was the video footage of the main room at Manchester on the NCSC web site. 2.Most Southern do's, yes London in particular.

[Guest rachel]

As far North as you like please, I dont travel as well anymore!!!

link

We can dream Jock...

[Guest]

Those comedic Bermondsey scallywags, brings a tear to my eye! 

What they don't seem to want to remember is McMillwall was originally the works team from a Scottish jam factory, and I understand that Scotland is even further north than Shrewsbury (wherever that is).  Anyhow, bloody immigrants etc etc

link

PMSL

[Guest Trifle]

As ever, some interesting personal opinions. I am a punter. Not been involved in promotion, organisation or music provision anywhere. So my view is completely unbiased, and based only on experience.

60s (mod) look - aint seen many done well lately.... more Austin Powers, flower power, and Mary Quant styles, which is fine if you like that sort of thing. I think they look pretty good doing the swim or the hitch-hike.

I prefer the flaredy trousers or bags and t-shirt look ... I think it goes well with Northern Soul dancing.

However, I am not so keen on the bowling shirts and multi-coloured trouser things... to me, it makes it look like they are trying that bit too hard to be a soulie (remember, this is MY opinion, so don't hate me for it ... ).

North v South.... I still have loads of clubs that I want to attend up North, but at this point in time there is no doubt in my mind that the northerly clubs win hands down. The people are friendlier and the atmosphere is more relaxed. That's the deciding factor because as already stated by someone else - DJs travel the length and breadth of the country, so the music is not an issue.

I prefer to go to a club where I will know the majority of the music or where the ones I don't know are at least dance-worthy, rather than being played just because they are rare, obscure, or under-played. So a club with an up-front policy has no appeal to me.

Out of interest, where is the dividing line between North and South?

[Guest]

I think "upfront" means "please don't keep coming up to the decks and asking for some more bloody oldies, not tonight, people didn't stop finding records when Wigan closed, okay?". 

Come to think of it, SHS isn't upfront because we also also play oldies, just try to balance it out a bit more than one oldie after another.

link

Probs with that description,as most so called U/F djs play forgotten oldies anyway,i should know been round long enough!,could say i`m a forgotten oldie,theyre only forgot by people who where not around to remember!!!!!

Edited May 11, 2005 by kenneth aitchison

[Dave]

Probs with that description,as most so called U/F djs play forgotten oldies anyway,i should know been round long enough!,could say i`m a forgotten oldie,theyre only forgot by people who where not around to remember!!!!!

link

Joe Jama. Joseph Webster, Margaret Little etc etc.....they're forgotten oldies are they?

[Guest Stuart T]

Youre not a Cock- Nee then Stuart. Up here, we thought the Bow(Beau) Bells could be heard all over Southern England. 

link

LOL I'd noticed that, do you think the cockneys have been transmitting the signal by radio to increase their numbers? A cunning trick.

[Simsy]

As ever, some interesting personal opinions. I am a punter. Not been involved in  promotion, organisation or music provision anywhere. So my view is completely unbiased, and based only on experience.60s (mod) look  -  aint seen many done well lately.... more Austin Powers, flower power, and Mary Quant styles, which is fine if you like that sort of thing. I think they look pretty good doing the swim or the hitch-hike. I prefer the flaredy trousers or bags and t-shirt look ... I think it goes well with Northern Soul dancing. 

However, I am not so keen on the bowling shirts and multi-coloured trouser things... to me, it makes it look like they are trying that bit too hard to be a soulie (remember, this is MY opinion, so don't hate me for it ...  ).Out of interest, where is the dividing line between North and South?

link

I was thinking more of the music policy. North/South divide = Watford Gap.

That's the deciding factor because as already stated by someone else  -  DJs travel the length and breadth of the country, so the music is not an issue.

link

I am that someone. The music is an issue, read first post again mate.

[Guest Stuart T]

Out of interest, where is the dividing line between North and South?

link

The Thames mate. They all speak funny the other side of that. Have you ever been to Stoke Newington?

[Guest]

Not sure that you can generalise into north and south - have been to soul nights from Inverness to Brighton... do notice some differences in styles/ tunes played in different areas but I suppose that's inevitable in a way, a lot of DJs tend to play mostly in their local area and will influence each other. Was in Brighton and London last year and heard a lot of stuff that I knew but didn't hear in Scotland... and some that I didn't know but were popular down there because several DJs locally had been playing them. Maybe there's more 'oldies' nights in the North (of England) simply because there are more nights there overall?

link

Not just regionally Rachel. There are four monthly soul nights in Sheffield. Ponds Forge has the most varied playlist and a wide variety of guests. Two other venues

have no major DJ's and play standard Wigan top 50 oldies and Motown on any label, week in week out. The only changes are when somebody plays something at PF or the Polish club nights which gets a good dancefloor reaction and, if available gets on the playlists at the other venues, and is played ad infinitum. Each to his own etc, but venues with a varied playlist tend to reactivate oldies for a while and then drop them before you get sick of them. Pyramid is a good example in Leeds and Sheffield. Both Jamie Hartford and myself have played it for a while, but its had its day. Just getting plays at the 'other' type venues in this area though. Soon be sick of it.

You always had to travel to hear the new sounds, and that is still the case today, and Andy Dyson, Butch, Sam etc are always going to be better at all nighters because the punters expectations are different IMO. To me, the last Soultown, (music as well as atmosphere) was like going back to the mid seventies.

The best DJ's play up North more (inc Midlands), so it should be 'better' thandown South.

Steve

Steve

[Little-stevie]

No no no..Not regional please....Dave and In Town Mikey would be running over the sheep from Ponds Forge with tractors Then there are the pie eaters,scallwags alongside bloke who still tuck jumpers into jeans ...Lets keep it a uk thing and we can all laugh at each other...Kenny aint sure what he is any more....He shouts loads a money with a Barnsley twang Most of that London lot are from all over,north v south don't exist ok...We are all one Well most of us...

[Dave]

Cato's been typing that for about half an hour

Edited May 11, 2005 by Dave

[Guest]

As ever, some interesting personal opinions. I am a punter. Not been involved in  promotion, organisation or music provision anywhere. So my view is completely unbiased, and based only on experience.

60s (mod) look  -  aint seen many done well lately.... more Austin Powers, flower power, and Mary Quant styles, which is fine if you like that sort of thing. I think they look pretty good doing the swim or the hitch-hike.

I prefer the flaredy trousers or bags and t-shirt look ... I think it goes well with Northern Soul dancing. 

However, I am not so keen on the bowling shirts and multi-coloured trouser things... to me, it makes it look like they are trying that bit too hard to be a soulie (remember, this is MY opinion, so don't hate me for it ...  ).

North v South.... I still have loads of clubs that I want to attend up North, but at this point in time there is no doubt in my mind that the northerly clubs win hands down. The people are friendlier and the atmosphere is more relaxed.  That's the deciding factor because as already stated by someone else  -  DJs travel the length and breadth of the country, so the music is not an issue.

I prefer to go to a club where I will know the majority of the music or where the ones I don't know are at least dance-worthy, rather than being played just because they are rare, obscure, or under-played. So a club with an up-front policy has no appeal to me.

Out of interest, where is the dividing line between North and South?

link

Sheffield.

Good points though, well made and reasoned.

[Guest Stuart T]

Probs with that description,as most so called U/F djs play forgotten oldies anyway,i should know been round long enough!,could say i`m a forgotten oldie,theyre only forgot by people who where not around to remember!!!!!

link

I sort of hinted about that in an earlier post, and clearly we will just have to wait for you all to go senile then we can proclaim a record as a complete newie. There will almost always be someone who can say "Had that years ago".

NOW CAN YOU REMEMBER WHERE YOU LEFT THE HOUSE KEYS AND HAVE YOU TURNED THE GAS OFF? Yes? Okay, just testing.

Edited May 11, 2005 by Stuart T

[Dave]

Sheffield. 

Good points though, well made and reasoned. 

link

So if the dividing line runs through Sheffield, which of you Dee-dahs are shandy drinking Southerners?

[Guest rachel]

North v South.... I still have loads of clubs that I want to attend up North, but at this point in time there is no doubt in my mind that the northerly clubs win hands down. The people are friendlier and the atmosphere is more relaxed.  That's the deciding factor because as already stated by someone else  -  DJs travel the length and breadth of the country, so the music is not an issue.

Never found much difference in 'friendliness' anywhere, most NS clubs are generally friendly, with the odd dodgy character wherever you go! Would say only the 'big' DJs travel the length of the country, a clubs 'character' is generally going to be made up by its residents (tend to be local) wouldn't you say?

I prefer to go to a club where I will know the majority of the music or where the ones I don't know are at least dance-worthy, rather than being played just because they are rare, obscure, or under-played. So a club with an up-front policy has no appeal to me.

link

Fair enough, you go where you can hear what you want to hear. But really haven't come across many DJs who will play things JUST because they're rare... maybe some have ended up scraping the barrel trying to find things that haven't been heard before, but they are very much in the minority. It's almost an urban myth about upfront clubs I think! Most are looking for good quality tunes that maybe haven't seen much action before.

[Pete S]

Midlands is great, but not aware of any rare soul clubs advertised there, and if there are and as im first to say so we will claim them as part of the Souths 

link

Midlands would never be affiliated with the South!

[Little-stevie]

Pete you won't affiliate with Birmingham

[Guest Stuart T]

Midlands would never be affiliated with the South!

link

Wouldn't want yer anyway.

Alroight?

[Pete S]

Pete you won't affiliate with Birmingham

link

That's true

[Dave]

Never found much difference in 'friendliness' anywhere, most NS clubs are generally friendly, with the odd dodgy character wherever you go! Would say only the 'big' DJs travel the length of the country, a clubs 'character' is generally going to be made up by its residents (tend to be local) wouldn't you say?

Fair enough, you go where you can hear what you want to hear. But really haven't come across many DJs who will play things JUST because they're rare... maybe some have ended up scraping the barrel trying to find things that haven't been heard before, but they are very much in the minority. It's almost an urban myth about upfront clubs I think! Most are looking for good quality tunes that maybe haven't seen much action before.

link

Got to disagree there Rachel...

1. The atmosphere is more consistently friendly in the North of the country.

2. I think some do play records just because they're rare, at the expense of quality "cheaper" material.

All IMHO

[Gary]

Midlands would never be affiliated with the South!

link

Well said that man

Is'nt Derby in the midlands?

Edited May 11, 2005 by Gary

[Soulsmith]

"One to ponder on this. I don't travel up north as much as I'd like to, or as much as I used to (Age, time, family etc). But is there a difference between a typical Northern set (ie played in the North) as opposed to that played at a Southern do? Same dj's travel the length and breadth of the country to do their sets right? So it should be the same. I can't help thinking it's not though somehow."

There is no difference IMO

"Couple of things made me think this over a period of time. As I know some Southerner's who think that the South is cutting edge in some respects"

They must be living in a bubble.

The only other thing I'd like to add regarding upfront rare soul down south that hasn't been already mentioned is the Southern Soul Club.

Steve C & Molly work really hard putting on soul nites in the Portsmouth area.

Col.

[Guest Dan]

I don't think there's a real regional split, is there? There's just good places and bad places. Round my way at the moment its mainly bad places, unfortunately. But then the Midlands was great in the 80s as someone said so maybe that's bollocks.

Steve makes an interesting point re Pyramid when he says it's had its day. Thing is, that's about the third time it will have had its day and there's so many other records like that. What I can't get my head around is what the structure is nowadays. In the 80s when I started going there were lots of 'new' sounds being discovered, or at least played. Now pretty much everything has been heard somewhere (only a tiny percentage of genuinely new sounds being discovered, just a fact of life).

I think the only way venues will keep 'fresh' sounds is if they run for a long time with pretty much the same DJs and they effectively rota their sounds...so for example Pyramid gets played a lot in 2004, lets give it a rest till 2007. I said 'almost' but I can't see any other way of keeping things fresh. Not that I care...I am an armchair fan mostly anyway!

By the way, surely it's 'trawling'. Round here, 'trolling' is going looking for a Saturday night shag in Nuneaton.

[Guest ShaneH]

So shane down south you have younger people dressing up as people from 40yrs ago,opposed to older people dressing up as people from 30yrs ago up north,and that means what exactly.

link

Having read the original post I now acknowledge the topic was referring to the music not the modern day culture. Apologies there.

My point was that you do not see as many people dressing in vests and baggies down south. However you will see a lot more 60's aficionados at the 100 club for example. I was also making the point that there are also many more younger people.

Its not a dig at anyone its just a north/south observation.

Shane

Edited May 11, 2005 by ShaneH

[Guest hammy]

The further south you go, the punters seem a lot younger - or at least they look a lot younger.

Music policies - well the Lifeline is streets ahead of anything and aligned to what a soul night should be all about IMHO. A very consistent and well thought through gig.

On the north vs south thing, I have to confess that I prefer northerners. I don't trust southerners in the slightest - mainly due to my own prejudice, but 20 years of watching Eastenders has also taken its toll. Seeing those frightfully vulgar little urchins on Albert Square talking out the side of their mouth makes me want to take the 'stick' to them. Also there is an 'element' on the southern scene that seems to spend more time fretting over the width of their trousers, and the correct side-vent alignment, than music. My own eccentricities apart, such behaviour is impossible to fathom for me. And I refuse to countenance sideways glances from anything in 'period costume' either....

Hammy

[Guest Stuart T]

Got to disagree there Rachel...

1. The atmosphere is more consistently friendly in the North of the country.

All IMHO

link

Thats only because they want to steal your shoes.

[Guest rachel]

Got to disagree there Rachel...

1. The atmosphere is more consistently friendly in the North of the country.

2. I think some do play records just because they're rare, at the expense of quality "cheaper" material.

All IMHO

link

1. Honestly not noticed that.

2. Some yes... I did say some....

[Guest ShaneH]

Sorry dont agree wiht you shane, but at the end of the day it doesnt matter what people wear, it's about the music, although hoops are out dont ya know! 

link

who said it matters?

I am surprised to hear you say you are more likely to see Wigan type attire down south though.

Shane

[Dave]

I don't think there's a real regional split, is there? There's just good places and bad places. Round my way at the moment its mainly bad places, unfortunately. But then the Midlands was great in the 80s as someone said so maybe that's bollocks.

Steve makes an interesting point re Pyramid when he says it's had its day. Thing is, that's about the third time it will have had its day and there's so many other records like that. What I can't get my head around is what the structure is nowadays. In the 80s when I started going there were lots of 'new' sounds being discovered, or at least played. Now pretty much everything has been heard somewhere (only a tiny percentage of genuinely new sounds being discovered, just a fact of life).

I think the only way venues will keep 'fresh' sounds is if they run for a long time with pretty much the same DJs and they effectively rota their sounds...so for example Pyramid gets played a lot in 2004, lets give it a rest till 2007. I said 'almost' but I can't see any other way of keeping things fresh. Not that I care...I am an armchair fan mostly anyway!

By the way, surely it's 'trawling'. Round here, 'trolling' is going looking for a Saturday night shag in Nuneaton.

link

Some of us are lucky enough to have never been to Nuneaton

Trawling means dragging a net from a boat to catch fish.

Trolling means dragging a lure behind a boat for the same purpose.....but the fish have to actively bite

[Guest Trifle]

Never found much difference in 'friendliness' anywhere, most NS clubs are generally friendly, with the odd dodgy character wherever you go! Would say only the 'big' DJs travel the length of the country, a clubs 'character' is generally going to be made up by its residents (tend to be local) wouldn't you say?

Fair enough, you go where you can hear what you want to hear. But really haven't come across many DJs who will play things JUST because they're rare... maybe some have ended up scraping the barrel trying to find things that haven't been heard before, but they are very much in the minority. It's almost an urban myth about upfront clubs I think! Most are looking for good quality tunes that maybe haven't seen much action before.

link

As I said, this is my personal experience ... . I am not going to name the unfriendly venues , but I've found "strangers" are more likely to chat to you at the bar/in the loos/on the dance floor etc in clubs oop norf.

I'm not sure about DJs playing things just because they're rare, we'd have to ask them, but have you not come across clubs that seem to have a "policy" of trying to play lesser known stuff.

Sheffield's bloody miles north, how can it be the dividing line??

I thought it was the Watford Gap?

[Guest Baz]

. Maybe there's more 'oldies' nights in the North (of England) simply because there are more nights there overall?

link

i can say there is far too many oldies nights in the midlands/ east mids

[Guest ShaneH]

Are you trolling as well because most of that's bollox!

link

what bit did you disagree with btw?

Shane

[Guest Stuart T]

On the north vs south thing, I have to confess that I prefer northerners. I don't trust southerners in the slightest - mainly due to my own prejudice, but 20 years of watching Eastenders has also taken its toll. Seeing those frightfully vulgar little urchins on Albert Square talking out the side of their mouth makes me want to take the 'stick' to them.   

Also there is an 'element' on the southern scene that seems to spend more time fretting over the width of their trousers, and the correct side-vent alignment, than music. My own eccentricities apart, such behaviour is impossible to fathom for me. And I refuse to countenance sideways glances from anything in 'period costume' either....

Hammy

link

The work'ouse is too good for 'em Mr 'Ammy.

NB I believe that side vents are out this week. But maybe that was last week.

[Dave]

what bit did you disagree with btw?

Shane

link

I'll go back and a have a look, shall I?

[Guest rachel]

I'm not sure about DJs playing things just because they're rare, we'd have to ask them, but have you not come across clubs that seem to have a "policy" of trying to play lesser known stuff.

link

Yep, but as I said, most of them are trying to find quality lesser known stuff (which doesn't necessarily mean expensive or less-than-five-copies)... or at least most of the people I've spoken to who DJ at these nights have a passion for the music more than for rarity or obscurity.

[Guest ShaneH]

I'll go back and a have a look, shall I?

link

just click on the little pink arrow on the right.

[Guest]

As I said, this is my personal experience ... . I am not going to name the unfriendly venues  , but I've found "strangers" are more likely to chat to you at the bar/in the loos/on the dance floor etc in clubs oop norf. 

I'm not sure about DJs playing things just because they're rare, we'd have to ask them, but have you not come across clubs that seem to have a "policy" of trying to play lesser known stuff.

Sheffield's bloody miles north, how can it be the dividing line?? 

I thought it was the Watford Gap?

link

Coz everything South of Sheffield is the Midlands first, then the Sarf.

Derbyshire and Notts are near Kent for Gods sake

[Guest Dan]

Some of us are lucky enough to have never been to Nuneaton

Trawling means dragging a net from a boat to catch fish.

Trolling means dragging a lure behind a boat for the same purpose.....but the fish have to actively bite

link

well you learn something every day and i thanks you for that, dave.

however, you're riddled with split infinitiveswhich makes it 1-1.

nuneaton is the pits, by the way, but the ladies can be very sympathetic. or so i recall.

[Dave]

just click on the little pink arrow on the right. 

link

Thanks for your help

Right...generally, events in the South, and midlands too, have their fair share of "fancy dress".

If you are talking solely of Valatone and the 100, then you need to compare like with like, e.g Sheridans....not many Spencers at either.

There is an element of young mod types who attend the London events but they form no greater proportion than the "younger soulies" such as yourself, Rachel et al who frequent Sheri's.

Dave

[Guest]

Thats only because they want to steal your shoes.

link

Its Backdoor Kenny that steals the shoes, I know, Ive seen him

[Guest ShaneH]

Thanks for your help

Right...generally, events in the South, and midlands too, have their fair share of "fancy dress".

If you are talking solely of Valatone and the 100, then you need to compare like with like, e.g Sheridans....not many Spencers at either.

There is an element of young mod types who attend the London events but they form no greater proportion than the "younger soulies" such as yourself, Rachel et al who frequent Sheri's.

Dave

link

so you do agree then Dave?

All I said was that there seems to be less wigan attire down south. I wasnt talking 'greater proportions' etc.

Hardly right to call my post 'bollox' imo but I am not one to get ruffled by things like this. I will take it nicely and see you Friday hopefully mate.

Shane

[Guest]

Having read the original post I now acknowledge the topic was referring to the music not the modern day culture. Apologies there. 

My point was that you do not see as many people dressing in vests and baggies down south. However you will see a lot more 60's aficionados at the 100 club for example. I was also making the point that there are also many more younger people.

Its not a dig at anyone its just a north/south observation. 

Shane

link

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