Frank Wilson On Soul Auction

[Guest familytree]

LOL, it'd never happen Family Tree. Too many super-sleuths on here plus the whole label-printing world and vinyl manufacturing has changed massively since the mid 60's and it would be impossible to replicate Frank Wilson for numerous reasons. An example: when I was at Simply Vinyl I wanted to replicate Cream's "Disreali Gears" album artwork. Couldn't do it - 'Day-Glo' doesn't exist anymore!

Still I admire your criminal enterprise. Wanna have a crack at some Bearer Bonds?

Ian D

I will try anything once!... Im sure anything is possible, god they forge masterpieces and fool the art world! gonna give it a go.. keep ya posted!..( ooh just had a call from J.M)

[Raremusicdirect]

It was Billie Jean Brown's copy originally.

There really were only two.

Any whispers of any more copies are just an urban myth. And baseless. Tom DePierro owned the other copy, and he confirmed this to me when he was still alive.

Hi Ian

Presumably there were female press plates, destroyed ?

Further a 7" and 10" acetate for reference and file. Have these been confirmed or not, do you know, as destroyed ?

Then the 6 copies, ordered destroyed. Think these were the ear copies, ie to artists, producer and file etc ?

I thought that most wdj copies were pressed by the hundred and it was this later (first)press that was to be destroyed ? Intended for plugging by stations.........

So as many as 6 could exists, but have indeed never turned up, bar the 2 known..........

I wouldnt rule out them ever surfacing personally as records are still turning up particulalry as rather than thrown people now know they have a value...........

A great piece of history for sure.

[Raremusicdirect]

Jimmys Lambretta off Quadrophenia recently made gbp 36,000 , it was purchased by a nightclub owner in Scotland for display & as an investment ?

Compared to the value of some of the items in the Hard Rock Cafes collection 50 grand for a Frank Wilson original would be peanuts & in the first instant allowable against tax.

This record is unique - its the only copy with BIG felt writing on

I think it will make big money. Goldmine suggesting $100 grand, there are a lot of very very wealthy music lovers out there, who would love to own the worlds most expensive 45, possibly not even caring about what the track sounds like or the meaning that it has for the Northern Soul Community.

Thats my take - NB

I agree entirely with this its either destined for a display case as a trophy for a non music lover or at the headquarters of Universal or in the collection of a Motown Artsist etc............

[Guest]

I'll give em a pound for it thats why they call me Terry Tibbs

[Guest lifeandsoul]

I agree entirely with this its either destined for a display case as a trophy for a non music lover or at the headquarters of Universal or in the collection of a Motown Artsist etc............

so whats best then - stuck in a temperature controlled display case, whilst a cd version is played in to the adjacent headphones, with an audio history, or being carted all over the country being played to 150 northern soul fans on a dodgy turntable every saturday?

[Raremusicdirect]

so whats best then - stuck in a temperature controlled display case, whilst a cd version is played in to the adjacent headphones, with an audio history, or being carted all over the country being played to 150 northern soul fans on a dodgy turntable every saturday?

Credit to the owner really as records are made to be played. I'd be nervous myself if it had that value, but maybe its insured against break ?

I was making the point that some folk won't ever care to play it again, it would just be a display / talking point............. I think this is sadder than it being with a true fan who plays it for sure........

[Ian Dewhirst]

so whats best then - stuck in a temperature controlled display case, whilst a cd version is played in to the adjacent headphones, with an audio history, or being carted all over the country being played to 150 northern soul fans on a dodgy turntable every saturday?

Preserve it.

You can't have it both ways unfortunately. All the collectors and DJ's want MINT records and if a record has even slight wear it reduces it's value and if it's been played regularly it can half in value, so how can a record maintain it's value and audio clarity if it gets hammered to death?

I cried when a record deck ruined my beautiful Morris Chestnut in 1974! I doubt if it's even audible now unless the present owner likes hearing it through a sea of hiss and crackle. There's plenty of other options these days, so why devalue what's left of the decent copies?

I think the chances of the 3rd copy going to a regular DJ are minimal to be honest - it will probably go to a serious high-end specialist collector, a well-healed fan, a commercial operation or someone who wants to invest in the history of the record.

Ian D

[Guest CliftonHall1]

Just to add more fire to the flames....

Back in 91 I lived in Fort lauderdale Florida. I was writing songs and recording them one of which I decided to press up on vinyl. After asking a few bods at the local DJ Store I was directed to a small factory pressing plant just outside FL. on Federal Highway. They pressed up 1000 12" singles for me which sounded great. I asked the old guy there how long he had been in business he told me over 20 years. He also told me that during the mid 60's right up to the late 70's he had pressed up a lot of the Motown releases. Now I know this is probably a long shot but he had a wall covered in Soul/Tamla 45's Demos in his office, maybe he's still there.....

Hi Nick

this was Rick Smiths ALPHA setup on Federal Highway i believe...ps did you get your Sherrys ok?

Well Gentleman, what a fascinating thread...and the possibility that Uncle Berry is the missing link.....

I've a got a good mind to have a punt myself.....although it would mean having to take all the pop botles back to raise the lucra.. ..but only if caveated in the contract for BG to personally hand the record over so that i can give him one in the ribs from Tammi Tyrell

[Speedlimit]

i,m with you steve because the john manship posting number 69 is

saying two copies only . there is no time like the present to

begin the push on a third copy if thats what he is selling but no

just a thin disguise to protect the current owner.

if a third copy as turned up then the value as dropped as it would now be as rare as the mello souls which manship values at £10,000 and is by far a better record

[Ian Dewhirst]

if a third copy as turned up then the value as dropped as it would now be as rare as the mello souls which manship values at £10,000 and is by far a better record

Well, 'better' is a subjective term speedlimit.

As good as the Mello Souls is, Frank Wilson has 32 years of history behind it and a much wider audience. It's also one of the Motown 'holy grails' and has crossed-over from the Northern scene to a wide international audience. Also there are several high-end dedicated collectors who want the record because of it's general history and rarity whereas Mello Souls hasn't quite reached that rarified level of exposure yet.

Give the Mello Souls another 30 years and see if any more than 3 copies turn up and then you could be talking!

Ian D

[Guest CliftonHall1]

Dave Godin told me years ago that as Berry owned Motown musics 'publishing' (Jobete) he would have been obliged to keep an archive (file) copy of all recorded work. "Do I Love You" is a Jobete (Berry Gordy) published work, and although EMI Music paid $132 million to Berry in 1997 for 50% of the Publishing, I doubt they'd have split his file copy in half :-)

In addition he was sure Berry kept a 'personal' copy of everything. Ian also alludes to this earlier in the thread.

Its all speculation - certainly not hard fact - but a pretty educated one I'd have said, not forgetting that Dave was very close to the inner sanctum of how things worked at Hitsville, back then.

Heard a few fans suggest that Berry will have had his own copy - and even that there are other copies of SOUL S-35019 in hardcore Motown collections. Seem to recall that Trevor Swaine wrote a fascinating article about it some 15+ years ago.

Here's someone else that thinks Berry will have had a FW:

Robb K (Soulful Detroit)

I'm SURE that Frank Wilson DIDN'T ever get a copy of Soul 35019, as only 6 copies were ever pressed (the six pressing plant test pressings. In the early '70s, I saw one copy in The Motown Record File, and one copy in The Jobete Music Record File (both were "missing" already in 1979). Berry Gordy must have had one for himself, and that already takes up half the six. Ron Murphy stated that the pressing plant always kept 2. That leaves only ONE OTHER copy floating around Motown. The record was "pulled back" even BEFORE the first DJ issue press run. Berry decided he didn't want Wilson to have a recording career at that time, as he was too valuable to Motown as a producer. They had a lot of plans for him, and moved him to Detroit (from L.A. to make that happen). No way he would have been handed one of the pressing plant masters. I doubt that he knew at the time, that the 6 records were pressed at all. He was told that his record was cancelled. He was told the same thing as Andre Williams and gino parks were told about their scheduled Miracle releases ("Sorry. Your record was cancelled.")

Guess all will be revealed in the fullness of time.

Sean

A technical question.

I notice Neil Rushton relates Ron Murphy's version of how he came about his copy of FW i.e from ARP plant in Michigan, from a Employee.

Yet i was told from a 'very reliable source' in 1978 that this copy also came from the Motown LA archive, I have a photo of myself and the renowned man himself outside the (deserted) Motown Building on Woodward at that time.

What is fact, who knows, however i make the observation that the 2 circulating copies in existance i believe both are pressed in STYRENE.

I have handled the Soussan sourced copy and remember, as normal, having regard for the matrix stamps but cannot recall what Stamps and master numbers were present, whether ARS Michigan(Pressing) or MR encircled LA (Monarch Pressing) or Nashville Masters, Nashville(Plating ONLY) or all 3, CONTRACTED Motown suppliers/Services.

If the MR stamp is present, as you would expect in a Styrene Monarch press then it doesnt make sense that the record could have been pressed at ARS and therefore leads you to the probability they were pressed in LA at Monarch which kind of makes some sense re the Connie Clark connection (also pressed at Monarch LA) with BG summend FW to Detroit from LA and subsequently change from artist to producer.

Does any one have the matrix details to hand for the stamps present and the delta number to chronologicaly date the record ?

IF the copies came from ARS Michigan then they would have SURELY been in PLASTIC TSP

Although ARS Michigan did mastering , Plating and Pressing i believe their product was ALL in Plastic TSP and not styrene.

Could it be the last copy remained in LA and is the 3rd surfacing one to be auctioned?

And if so who is the source?

Here's Johnny!

[Kris Holmes]

give him one in the ribs from Tammi Tyrell

?????????????????????????????????

[Peterobinson]

Sooo.. what about the pressings?

There seems to be two different recordings of the track.

I seem to remember buying a Motown issue around 1979/80 from a market in Sheffield for a quid (I now have 2004 issue that states 1979 as the 'original issue' date).

Then there's the Stardust pressing, which has a 'richer' sounding backing track (even the vocal sounds enhanced) - its more like the Chris Clark version.

And what's the story behind Chris Clark's version? This on the reverse of both pressings and sounds pretty much the same on both to my old ears.

Questions, questions... often wondered and never bothered... until now ;)

Edited February 13, 2009 by PeteRobinson

[Tomangoes]

Well

One original copy is warped, one original copy has 'with love to Jock' scrawled all over it, and the they are valued at at least £20k.

The 3rd copy may or may not exist, but by its own definition lowers the average price somewhat if it does. Then again if its perfect it could bring £30k or more.

I have an original (ha ha) mint condition 15th re-issue signed by Frank himself (I know one or two more exist) and also a separate FW signed 'menu' from the bar at the LA 2004 gig to prove the signature is genuine. How much would these two items be worth?

Maybe they will both go on ebay if the real DILYIID gets daft money thrown at it.

Ed

[Sebastian]

i make the observation that the 2 circulating copies in existance i believe both are pressed in STYRENE.

No, they are both pressed on vinyl.

[Guest Pete Griffin]

Sooo.. what about the pressings?

There seems to be two different recordings of the track.

I seem to remember buying a Motown issue around 1979/80 from a market in Sheffield for a quid (I now have 2004 issue that states 1979 as the 'original issue' date).

Then there's the Stardust pressing, which has a 'richer' sounding backing track (even the vocal sounds enhanced) - its more like the Chris Clark version.

And what's the story behind Chris Clark's version? This on the reverse of both pressings and sounds pretty much the same on both to my old ears.

Questions, questions... often wondered and never bothered... until now

And what about this t boot cheap as chips and plays perfect, so what was this boot all about then?

[Guest familytree]

A technical question.

I notice Neil Rushton relates Ron Murphy's version of how he came about his copy of FW i.e from ARP plant in Michigan, from a Employee.

Yet i was told from a 'very reliable source' in 1978 that this copy also came from the Motown LA archive, I have a photo of myself and the renowned man himself outside the (deserted) Motown Building on Woodward at that time.

What is fact, who knows, however i make the observation that the 2 circulating copies in existance i believe both are pressed in STYRENE.

I have handled the Soussan sourced copy and remember, as normal, having regard for the matrix stamps but cannot recall what Stamps and master numbers were present, whether ARS Michigan(Pressing) or MR encircled LA (Monarch Pressing) or Nashville Masters, Nashville(Plating ONLY) or all 3, CONTRACTED Motown suppliers/Services.

If the MR stamp is present, as you would expect in a Styrene Monarch press then it doesnt make sense that the record could have been pressed at ARS and therefore leads you to the probability they were pressed in LA at Monarch which kind of makes some sense re the Connie Clark connection (also pressed at Monarch LA) with BG summend FW to Detroit from LA and subsequently change from artist to producer.

Does any one have the matrix details to hand for the stamps present and the delta number to chronologicaly date the record ?

IF the copies came from ARS Michigan then they would have SURELY been in PLASTIC TSP

Although ARS Michigan did mastering , Plating and Pressing i believe their product was ALL in Plastic TSP and not styrene.

Could it be the last copy remained in LA and is the 3rd surfacing one to be auctioned?

And if so who is the source?

Here's Johnny!

Er could you repeat all that... but go slower... TSP ARP ETC... Phew! x

[Cheltsoulnights]

TOTAL BULLSHIT!

Im not in the habit of telling lies

check your facts with tim first

[Guest moggy]

I think the chances of the 3rd copy going to a regular DJ are minimal to be honest - it will probably go to a serious high-end specialist collector, a well-healed fan, a commercial operation or someone who wants to invest in the history of the record.

Ian D

So Ian with all the "Its Kenny's copy going sale" throughout the thread and I will bet you this etc

are you still saying it's a never before seen, third copy . (seen by the majority of the soul scene that is)

Or are you doing a John Manship on us, and just teasing slightly.

[davidwapples]

anyone in the south lincs area get a copy of the spalding guardian and look at page 23

there is a promotional feature for a northern soul night / motown night by a person called jon coupland who said that he has a copy of frank wilson he bought from an auction in america 10 years ago , but it is not pictured with his other records lol

hmmmmmmmmm

[Ian Dewhirst]

So Ian with all the "Its Kenny's copy going sale" throughout the thread and I will bet you this etc

are you still saying it's a never before seen, third copy . (seen by the majority of the soul scene that is)

Or are you doing a John Manship on us, and just teasing slightly.

I've heard so many different stories, red herrings and blind alleys that I'm actually back-tracking slightly now.

In the course of the last few days I've had to speak to a number of people who are absolutely more knowledgeable about the history of the record and the various processes which ths particular record went through. I'm now convinced that only 6 promo copies were originally manufactured. Of those 6, I think 3 went to Detroit and the other 3 were retained @ ARP. Of the 3 which went to Detroit I believe that 1 copy went to the main archive library (which eventually got relocated to Los Angeles and was subsequently 'borrowed' by Simon Soussan), 1 went to Berry Gordy's personal archive and the other 1 is either unaccounted for or gone. Of the 3 which were retained by ARP, I believe that 2 of them were destroyed along with the thousands of other multiple archive Motown pressings when ARP got the OK to clear the space from Motown as long as they kept a single copy of everything (not as unusual as it sounds as the American's never seemed to value anything that was mass-produced in those days, so dumping or destroying stock was standard practise). That single copy @ ARP was subsequently obtained by Ron Murphy.

So 4 copies left out of the original 6.

1 'borrowed' by Simon Soussan from the Motown archive library which went from Soussan-Les McCutcheon-Johnathan Woodliffe-KevRoberts, now owned by Tim Brown. Verified.

1 obtained by Ron Murphy from ARP which went from Murphy-Martin Koppel-Tim Brown, now owned by Kenny Burrell. Verified.

1 owned by Berry Gordy in his personal archive. Unverified.

1 unaccounted for. Unverified.

My feelings are that the unverified unaccounted copy is probably long gone. I just can't see that it could be laying in anyone's collection without being known about. What's the point in owning a Frank Wilson if no one knows you have it? And after 32 years I think the info would have come out one way or another seeing as every record hound in the world has been trying to track one down since the late 70's......

So that leaves 2 verified copies and 1 unverified. The unverified one is Berry Gordy's so that won't be going anywhere fast.

Which boils it down to Tim and Kenny's copies.........

Unless, John has managed to unearth the 'lost' copy which originally went to Motown but is unaccounted for.....

So anyone's guess really......

All bets are off.....

6 weeks to go....

Ian D

Edited February 12, 2009 by Ian Dewhirst

[Ian Dewhirst]

anyone in the south lincs area get a copy of the spalding guardian and look at page 23

there is a promotional feature for a northern soul night / motown night by a person called jon coupland who said that he has a copy of frank wilson he bought from an auction in america 10 years ago , but it is not pictured with his other records lol

hmmmmmmmmm

Yep, that well-known hoarder of impossibly rare records from Spalding, Lincolnshire, Jon Coupland, who managed to outwit every record hound on earth for 32 years and bag the missing third copy of "Do I Love You" LOL....probably a personal mate of Berry's no doubt.......

'Frank Wilson Frenzy' we call in round these parts! We'll see more of this in the coming weeks I'm sure.

Ian D

[Guest Soultown andy]

I've heard so many different stories, red herrings and blind alleys that I'm actually back-tracking slightly now.

In the course of the last few days I've had to speak to a number of people who are absolutely more knowledgeable about the history of the record and the various processes which ths particular record went through. I'm now convinced that only 6 promo copies were originally manufactured. Of those 6, I think 3 went to Detroit and the other 3 were retained @ ARP. Of the 3 which went to Detroit I believe that 1 copy went to the main archive library (which eventually got relocated to Los Angeles and was subsequently 'borrowed' by Simon Soussan), 1 went to Berry Gordy's personal archive and the other 1 is either unaccounted for or gone. Of the 3 which were retained by ARP, I believe that 2 of them were destroyed along with the thousands of other multiple archive Motown pressings when ARP got the OK to clear the space from Motown as long as they kept a single copy of everything (not as unusual as it sounds as the American's never seemed to value anything that was mass-produced in those days, so dumping or destroying stock was standard practise). That single copy @ ARP was subsequently obtained by Ron Murphy.

So 4 copies left out of the original 6.

1 'borrowed' by Simon Soussan from the Motown archive library which went from Soussan-Les McCutcheon-Johnathan Woodliffe-KevRoberts, now owned by Tim Brown. Verified.

1 obtained by Ron Murphy from ARP which went from Murphy-Martin Koppel-Tim Brown, now owned by Kenny Burrell. Verified.

1 owned by Berry Gordy in his personal archive. Unverified.

1 unaccounted for. Unverified.

My feelings are that the unverified unaccounted copy is probably long gone. I just can't see that it could be laying in anyone's collection without being known about. What's the point in owning a Frank Wilson if no one knows you have it? And after 32 years I think the info would have come out one way or another seeing as every record hound in the world has been trying to track one down since the late 70's......

So that leaves 2 verified copies and 1 unverified. The unverified one is Berry Gordy's so that won't be going anywhere fast.

Which boils it down to Tim and Kenny's copies.........

Unless, John has managed to unearth the 'lost' copy which originally went to Motown but is unaccounted for.....

So anyone's guess really......

All bets are off.....

6 weeks to go....

Ian D

Didnt you ask me to up the bet after saying something about,doubting a certain ginger from tods word against that of a worldly wise record dealer of huge repute .

[Ian Dewhirst]

Didnt you ask me to up the bet after saying something about,doubting a certain ginger from tods word against that of a worldly wise record dealer of huge repute .

My regard for the Ginger one has improved immensely!

I thought the gig was up when I tried to insure your bet and cut a decent profit but couldn't persuade anyone to take me up on it LOL....

Said record dealer can't confirm or deny any of the rumours at this point on the basis of:

1) A confidentiality clause with the owner.

and

2) "Frank - you're the LAST bloody person who needs to know!" quote.

I don't know why he'd say that. I always thought I came across as the strong silent shy retiring type............

Ian D

[Guest Soultown andy]

My regard for the Ginger one has improved immensely!

I thought the gig was up when I tried to insure your bet and cut a decent profit but couldn't persuade anyone to take me up on it LOL....

Said record dealer can't confirm or deny any of the rumours at this point on the basis of:

1) A confidentiality clause with the owner.

and

2) "Frank - you're the LAST bloody person who needs to know!" quote.

I don't know why he'd say that. I always thought I came across as the strong silent shy retiring type............

Ian D

So its kennys then [call it a pint seeing as its you] .

[Ian Dewhirst]

So its kennys then [call it a pint seeing as its you] .

Well, it's worth a pint just for the jousting mate!

Basically it could be a double reverse-psychology ploy pointing to a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma providing a conundum, thus creating a paradox if you see what I mean.........

Pints on me Andy.....

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

And what about this t boot cheap as chips and plays perfect, so what was this boot all about then?

I think that's Jon Coupland's copy from Spalding, Lincolnshire innit?

Ian D

[Guest Brett F]

I have talked about this on the forum before, but i thought this would be a good place to bring it up yet again !, what is the most expensive record ever bought, certain someone on here (or did i read it ?) said that Paul McCartney paid a Trillion (whatever.... it was a lot) pounds for some Beatles acetate or oddball thing ? I know the Sex Pistols God Save The Queen fetched a few quid, and didn't Kenny B actually pay the 15 grand for several things including the Frank Wilson ? Ian Dewhirst please tell me, after all i've read i think you are the only person who i'll believe....

Brett F

ps.......look at this link......think records are expensive titbits............

https://most-expensive.net/baseball-card

Edited February 12, 2009 by Brett F

[Guest POTTERIESPECK]

[Guest Soultown andy]

Well, it's worth a pint just for the jousting mate!

Basically it could be a double reverse-psychology ploy pointing to a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma providing a conundum, thus creating a paradox if you see what I mean.........

Isnt that just always the way .

[Rhino]

at first look i thought this was some indian guy with a 3rd copy of fw but to my disapointment its only russ winstanly(nice side parting though)

[Guest MBarrett]

.

I think 3 went to Detroit

Ian D

Ian

A lot seems to hinge on whether 3 copies were indeed sent over from ARP to Detroit.

What do you think the likelihood that there is still someone living in Owosso who would remember exactly what was the working agreement with Motown?

Could be someone who worked in an admin function/post room/delivery driver etc. etc. etc.

Apologies if I got this wrong but it looks like there are 2 local newspapers that cover the area of Owosso:

Here - https://www.owossoindependent.com/

and here - https://www.argus-press.com/

You could either feed a letter in or even encourage the editor to run a feature.

Who knows what info. might creep out of the woodwork even after all these years.

If this is a rubbish idea or this angle has already been covered then please ignore.

MB

[Ian Dewhirst]

I have talked about this on the forum before, but i thought this would be a good place to bring it up yet again !, what is the most expensive record ever bought, certain someone on here (or did i read it ?) said that Paul McCartney paid a Trillion (whatever.... it was a lot) pounds for some Beatles acetate or oddball thing ? I know the Sex Pistols God Save The Queen fetched a few quid, and didn't Kenny B actually pay the 15 grand for several things including the Frank Wilson ? Ian Dewhirst please tell me, after all i've read i think you are the only person who i'll believe....

Brett F

ps.......look at this link......think records are expensive titbits............

https://most-expensive.net/baseball-card

Hi Brett,

I'm researching it as we speak mate. I'm speaking to the Guinness Book Of Records people in the morning so I should have some definitive info tomorrow.

And I wouldn't believe me if I were you! Sometimes I have trouble believing myself!

Ian D

[Guest]

im sure it will do over 40k wonder if the motown demo with picture sleeve will go up?

[Ian Dewhirst]

Ian

A lot seems to hinge on whether 3 copies were indeed sent over from ARP to Detroit.

What do you think the likelihood that there is still someone living in Owosso who would remember exactly what was the working agreement with Motown?

Could be someone who worked in an admin function/post room/delivery driver etc. etc. etc.

Apologies if I got this wrong but it looks like there are 2 local newspapers that cover the area of Owosso:

Here - https://www.owossoindependent.com/

and here - https://www.argus-press.com/

You could either feed a letter in or even encourage the editor to run a feature.

Who knows what info. might creep out of the woodwork even after all these years.

If this is a rubbish idea or this angle has already been covered then please ignore.

MB

FANTASTIC detective work! Ya never know do you? I'd be inclined to fish around just for the hell of it. Were the records ALL junked or did some employees of the plant get the wink and are there a load of 60's Motown promos in a loft in Owosso?

These are the things dreams are made of. Nothing ventured, nothing gained dude........

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

LOL, you'd have thought he could have used a 60's Motown sleeve or even a U.S. one at that wouldn'tcha........?

Ian D

[Guest MBarrett]

I'd be inclined to fish around just for the hell of it.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained dude........

Ian D

Ian

From earlier in the thread it seems that Ron Bishop did some serious digging in Owosso - not only found DILY, but records from 25 other ex-employees!!

But this might just be a question that was never asked before.

And always a chance that something could come out of the woodwork on the back of it.

If I am reading the correct stat Owosso has just 15,000 inhabitants. I wonder if they know their claim to fame. If the editor of the local rag doesn't then you have the chance to make his day/week/month!!

Maybe the local Mayor will want to bid in the JM auction. Bring the record home to the town where it was born . . . . . . . !!

Knowing our "U.S. cousins" it could turn them into a tourist attraction.

First there was Hollywood . . . then Dollywood . . . now we bring you DILYwood!!

Getting serious though, I am sure this would be a thousand to one shot . . . but it's a free bet so what the heck!

MB

[Ian Dewhirst]

Ian

From earlier in the thread it seems that Ron Bishop did some serious digging in Owosso - not only found DILY, but records from 25 other ex-employees!!

But this might just be a question that was never asked before.

And always a chance that something could come out of the woodwork on the back of it.

If I am reading the correct stat Owosso has just 15,000 inhabitants. I wonder if they know their claim to fame. If the editor of the local rag doesn't then you have the chance to make his day/week/month!!

Maybe the local Mayor will want to bid in the JM auction. Bring the record home to the town where it was born . . . . . . . !!

Knowing our "U.S. cousins" it could turn them into a tourist attraction.

First there was Hollywood . . . then Dollywood . . . now we bring you DILYwood!!

Getting serious though, I am sure this would be a thousand to one shot . . . but it's a free bet so what the heck!

MB

A classified ad in the back of the local paper along the lines of: "Do YOU Have Some Motown Records In Your Loft or Garage?" might be worth a shot? Or better still "We're Looking To Contact Any Ex-Employees of ARP For A Forthcoming Documentary......"

It'd be cheaper than the winning bid that's for sure LOL....

Ian D

[Guest POTTERIESPECK]

ONLY MY OPINNION, BUT RUSS OR HIS LADY NEVER ROCKED MY BOAT.WHEN A YOUNG SPROGG WHEN EVER REQUESTED FOR A SOUND AT THE CASINO, I ALWAYS GOT THAT ANSWER FROM EITHER LIKE I'LL SEE WHAT I CAN DO, BUT IT SEEMED TO ME THAT THEY THOUGHT I KNEW F-K OH ABOUT THE MUSIC, IN HONESTY I PROBABLY KNEW MORE THEN THAN I DO NOW. THIS AT A TIME THAT A LOT OF MY ELDERS LIKE NOGGER + EVO JUST TO NAME TWO EMBRACED THE YOUNGER ONES ON THE SCENE, YOU WHERE NEVER AFFRAID TO ASK YOUR ELDERS ABOUT NEW SOUNDS YOU LIKED ,ABOUT WHO THEY WHERE BY, WETHER THEY WHERE A COVER , WHAT LABEL, WETHER IT WAS A SOUND BEFORE OUR TIME, ALL REPLIED TO WITHOUT ANY BIG TIME CHARLIE ANSWERS. TO ME THE IMPRESSION RUSS + I THINK MARY REMIND ME OF THE ATTITUDE OF WHAT SEEMS LIKE IS MORE PROMIENENT ON TODAY'S SCENE. PEOPLE WITH LOADS OF BRASS TO BUY MEGGA RARE SOUNDS ! NOT FOR FOR THE LOVE OF THE RECORD ! BUT JUST TO SAY I'VE GOT A COPY OF IT, TO ME THAT'S BOLLOCKS, IF I BUY A SOUND , I BUY THE RECORD FOR THE EMOTIONS IT STIRS INSIDE OF ME. IT'S THIS ONE -UP BOLLOCKS OF EVERY OTHER c*** THAT GET'S ON MY TITS. EMBRACE THE YOUNG'ENS CAUSE THEY ARE THE FUTURE, A LITTLE TOGETHERNESS , THAT'S ALL IT NEEDS, JUST A LITTLE UNDERSTANDIND AND I KNOW WE'LL SUCCEED

[pikeys dog]

What a fantastic off topic rant.

Bravo Sir!

[Guest MBarrett]

A classified ad in the back of the local paper along the lines of: "Do YOU Have Some Motown Records In Your Loft or Garage?" might be worth a shot? Or better still "We're Looking To Contact Any Ex-Employees of ARP For A Forthcoming Documentary......"

It'd be cheaper than the winning bid that's for sure LOL....

Ian D

Ian

If it was me I would be looking to enthuse one of the editors about the story and get a front page splash. All free and gratis.

He/she will soon put you straight if people have been nosing around for the last 40 years - and the town is totally bored with the whole subject.

By the same token there are a lot of journos out there who pray each night that the phone will ring with this week's headline story!!

It's in your court.

Just let us know if you run with it and sense any positive vibes.

MB

[Ian Dewhirst]

Ian

If it was me I would be looking to enthuse one of the editors about the story and get a front page splash. All free and gratis.

He/she will soon put you straight if people have been nosing around for the last 40 years - and the town is totally bored with the whole subject.

By the same token there are a lot of journos out there who pray each night that the phone will ring with this week's headline story!!

It's in your court.

Just let us know if you run with it and sense any positive vibes.

MB

But there lies the rub MB.

If you mega publicise the record in the local town and get the front page, then the whole town will know something major is up, everybody and their 90 year old grandfather will be up in the lofts or down in the basements DIGGING, DIGGING, DIGGING like frenzied bastards and you'll have a couple of thousand lunatics turnin up with beat-up copies of "I Can't Help Myself" or "Baby Love" demanding millions of bucks and thinking they've won the lottery LOL....

Whereas my strategy would be the sneaky bastard approach i.e. a discreet box ad in the classifieds at the back of the paper asking if anyone has any records from the ARP plant in their lofts and specifically any by one Frank Wilson or, at a pinch, Patrice Holloway or some of the other obscure ones. Will pay CA$H. You know that sort of thing. It's something to do with me being a tight Northerner and my horrendous upbringing where beans on toast was the main meal of the week LOL...

Great publicity stunt though and inspired thinking. How about a discreet box ad first and if that brings nothing substantial THEN go for the front splash with a scan of FW?

It'd be the biggest news in Owasso since Tommy Jr fell out of a tree in '63!

Good thinking MB. It'd definitely get the front page of the local rag and then the wires would pick it up and the next thing you know we'll have Manship on CNN.......

Ian D

[Roger Williams]

LOL, you'd have thought he could have used a 60's Motown sleeve or even a U.S. one at that wouldn'tcha........?

Ian D

Off topic, sorry, but that photo just puts me in mind of the ads you used to see in the wall in the barbers when you were a kid - I wonder how long Russ spent doing his hair before he had that photo taken!

[Ian Dewhirst]

Off topic, sorry, but that photo just puts me in mind of the ads you used to see in the wall in the barbers when you were a kid - I wonder how long Russ spent doing his hair before he had that photo taken!

LOL, that's funny Roger!

I often wondered where Russ got his image from. I thought it was Jason King but now the secrets out.........

Ian D

[Wiganer1]

ONLY MY OPINNION, BUT RUSS OR HIS LADY NEVER ROCKED MY BOAT.

---------

RUSS's wife is lovely the times ive met her..

[Guest MBarrett]

Whereas my strategy would be the sneaky bastard approach

Ian D

Ian

I can see pros and cons of different approaches.

I have spent years in audit/analyst/research work and my approach would be to get on the phone to the editor of the Independent newspaper - but that would be to track down information rather than vinyl.

Good luck if you give it a stab either way.

Meanwhile have attached copy of letter sent by RW to the Daily Mail in 2007 - but can't vouch for accuracy of content

MB

[Ian Dewhirst]

Ian

I can see pros and cons of different approaches.

I have spent years in audit/analyst/research work and my approach would be to get on the phone to the editor of the Independent newspaper - but that would be to track down information rather than vinyl.

Good luck if you give it a stab either way.

Meanwhile have attached copy of letter sent by RW to the Daily Mail in 2007 - but can't vouch for accuracy of content

MB

Wow. Tremendous detective work MB. You couldn't use your skills to find out what happened to Simon Soussan could you? Could do with tracing him to get some comment on the first copy of F.W. I can see the reply right now ......

"...and when I went into ze Motown library my sinuses suddenly started unblocking and I could SMELL zat zere was a 100% genuine sinus-deblocker on ze shelves...etc, etc.......

Ian D

Edited February 13, 2009 by Ian Dewhirst

[Cheltsoulnights]

Wow. Tremendous detective work MB. You couldn't use your skills to find out what happened to Simon Soussan could you? Could do with tracing him to get some comment on the first copy of F.W. I can see the reply right now ......

"...and when I went into ze Motown library my sinuses suddenly started unblocking and I could SMELL zat zere was a 100% genuine sinus-deblocker on ze shelves...etc, etc.......

Ian D

And there was me thinking Joe Mathews aka cecil washington was the most sought after cover-up at the time? anyone agree?

[Cheltsoulnights]

I'm sure you don't, but someone must be having you on. As I said before Tim still had it in his possession only a few days before he went on holiday (under two weeks ago). Now whether someone in London is in the process of buying it is a different matter. But that disc was certainly still in Tim's possession very recently. The two month thing you stated, is definitely not true. I'm sure it will all come to light shortly.

You are missing the point. i text Tim saturday night and his reply i passed on. if he is winding me and you up i dont know. But its not made up at all by me

[Guest east rob]

LOL, that's funny Roger!

I often wondered where Russ got his image from. I thought it was Jason King but now the secrets out.........

Ian D thats dave evison innit??