Filmore Street Soul Rebellion On Money

[Ady Croasdell]

Can anyone lend me a half decent copy, mine's rough.

Ta

Ady

[boba]

Can anyone lend me a half decent copy, mine's rough.

Ta

Ady

I don't know the record, but wasn't this rudy ray moore's band?

[Ady Croasdell]

I don't know the record, but wasn't this rudy ray moore's band?

Yes, he was involved with Theodore Toney and Arthur Wright and apparently it came out as by him on Cherry Red, but I'm not sure if it's the same version as it's only one side of the disc and the FSSR was part 1 & 2. There was also a great unreleased track by Johnny Adams of the same name, but totally different, which we put on the first "The Soul Of Money" CD. It must have been a local catch phrase or street talk.

[boba]

Yes, he was involved with Theodore Toney and Arthur Wright and apparently it came out as by him on Cherry Red, but I'm not sure if it's the same version as it's only one side of the disc and the FSSR was part 1 & 2. There was also a great unreleased track by Johnny Adams of the same name, but totally different, which we put on the first "The Soul Of Money" CD. It must have been a local catch phrase or street talk.

if you're talking about the phrase "put your weight on it", that was always one of rudy's catch phrases, he says it a billion times in disco godfather.

do you know what the deal is with the four tees, who they were, etc.? T. Toney's name is on that too.

[Ady Croasdell]

if you're talking about the phrase "put your weight on it", that was always one of rudy's catch phrases, he says it a billion times in disco godfather.

do you know what the deal is with the four tees, who they were, etc.? T. Toney's name is on that too.

Thanks, i didn't know that. One of Arthur Wright's good friends Ben Taylor who i met with Arthur was in the group, i should have written something about it on one of the Kent Modern CDs. Do I still owe you those CDs? If so PM me a list of releases you'd like and I'll add the one I'm on about. T Toney did a lot of good West coast productions.

[Weingarden]

Thanks, i didn't know that. One of Arthur Wright's good friends Ben Taylor who i met with Arthur was in the group, i should have written something about it on one of the Kent Modern CDs. Do I still owe you those CDs? If so PM me a list of releases you'd like and I'll add the one I'm on about. T Toney did a lot of good West coast productions.

hi, ady. i once had a mint copy of this, and put part 1 of it on a compilation i did several years ago called "vital organs." i no longer have the 45, but the comp is easy to get hold of and we made a very clean transfer. we licensed the track from arthur wright.

best,

matt

[boba]

Yes, he was involved with Theodore Toney and Arthur Wright and apparently it came out as by him on Cherry Red, but I'm not sure if it's the same version as it's only one side of the disc and the FSSR was part 1 & 2. There was also a great unreleased track by Johnny Adams of the same name, but totally different, which we put on the first "The Soul Of Money" CD. It must have been a local catch phrase or street talk.

are you sure it came out on cherry red? i have a mint copy of rudy ray moore put your weight on it on Generation, a gold label. I have an lp by him on cherry red but it doesn't have that track on it. The generation 45 says it's from the turning point LP. I don't have the LP so I can't compare if the 45 is the same, but I guess I could record the 45 if you need it. That's the only rudy ray moore LP I don't own, I never felt like paying real money for a comedy LP. I met Rudy 10 years ago and he told me he used to sell that LP for $1 at his shows in the 80s.

[Weingarden]

are you sure it came out on cherry red? i have a mint copy of rudy ray moore put your weight on it on Generation, a gold label. I have an lp by him on cherry red but it doesn't have that track on it. The generation 45 says it's from the turning point LP. I don't have the LP so I can't compare if the 45 is the same, but I guess I could record the 45 if you need it. That's the only rudy ray moore LP I don't own, I never felt like paying real money for a comedy LP. I met Rudy 10 years ago and he told me he used to sell that LP for $1 at his shows in the 80s.

yeah, it came out on cherry red, too. don't think it's the exact same recording as on money, though. never heard the generation one....

[Denbo]

if you're talking about the phrase "put your weight on it", that was always one of rudy's catch phrases, he says it a billion times in disco godfather.

do you know what the deal is with the four tees, who they were, etc.? T. Toney's name is on that too.

Will that be the Four Tees that recorded on Kent and backed Johnny Wesley on Melic?

[Ady Croasdell]

hi, ady. i once had a mint copy of this, and put part 1 of it on a compilation i did several years ago called "vital organs." i no longer have the 45, but the comp is easy to get hold of and we made a very clean transfer. we licensed the track from arthur wright.

best,

matt

Unfortunately it's probably the Part 2 I'm gonna use and unless you included it as a bonus, it's not on it. Try and remember who bought the record if you can!

Thanks

ady

[Ady Croasdell]

Will that be the Four Tees that recorded on Kent and backed Johnny Wesley on Melic?

Same geezers

[Guest miff]

Just done a couple of photos A & B Sides, Can some one just clear up on this are we saying that PYWOI on Cherry red & Generation is the same record Adys on about on Money, Ta

[Weingarden]

i traded it to pat staten in california, ady.

m

[Ady Croasdell]

Just done a couple of photos A & B Sides, Can some one just clear up on this are we saying that PYWOI on Cherry red & Generation is the same record Adys on about on Money, Ta

That's what I'm checking out. I'll A/B it on Friday and let y'all know. Presumably t'other side is a different song?

Thanks very much

Ady

[boba]

That's great Miff, perhaps Bob could compare it with what he's got on Generation and see if they're about the same.

I will compare it and post later tonight.

[Guest]

That's what I'm checking out. I'll A/B it on Friday and let y'all know. Presumably t'other side is a different song?

Thanks very much

Ady

ADY,

just added an soundclip and a label scan for the Cherry Red release to the site.

use this link to see and hear

https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/d/161011/MOORE%2C+RUDY+RAY

hope that helps,

up the city!

john

[Guest PSS]

I was the person who helped Matt put out the Vital Organs. There are actually four released versions (that I know of). Three on 7-inch and one on LP.

The LP is - Rudy Ray Moore presents The Mr. Jerry Walker Album "The Fairy Godmother" (Kent Comedian Series cat. KST-003). This seems to be the same exact version as the one released on Money.

I also have the Generation Records release and the Cherry Red version. All the versions are great.

The best part of putting out the comp was talking to all the musicians. Ben Taylor and Arthur Wright were amazing to talk to and had some great stories. They had said that Mr. Moore always alowed them creative control of the music.

- pat.

Audio Visual Triumphs and Disasters: https://primitivesoundsystem.blogspot.com

[boba]

I was the person who helped Matt put out the Vital Organs. There are actually four released versions (that I know of). Three on 7-inch and one on LP.

The LP is - Rudy Ray Moore presents The Mr. Jerry Walker Album "The Fairy Godmother" (Kent Comedian Series cat. KST-003). This seems to be the same exact version as the one released on Money.

I also have the Generation Records release and the Cherry Red version. All the versions are great.

The best part of putting out the comp was talking to all the musicians. Ben Taylor and Arthur Wright were amazing to talk to and had some great stories. They had said that Mr. Moore always alowed them creative control of the music.

- pat.

Audio Visual Triumphs and Disasters: https://primitivesoundsystem.blogspot.com

I have that fairy godmother LP too, I will record that and post it along with the generation 45.

[Guest PSS]

Maybe I am stating the obvious here but "You Could Be Ugly Too" from the Rudy Ray Moore Album - "Eat Out More Often" (Kent Records Comedian Series cat. KST 001) is the same basic backing track. Just sayin'.

- pat.

[boba]

I have that fairy godmother LP too, I will record that and post it along with the generation 45.

OK, I don't have time to record stuff tonight but I just listened and they are all TOTALLY DIFFERENT TRACKS. The version on the jerry walker LP is a very 60s sounding mod groove. The cherry red track posted here sounds similar but is clearly a different recording, the jerry walker LP sounds sort of like a live version of the song. The generation 45 sounds much more modern. The generation 45 says it's from the turning point LP but I don't know if it's identical since I don't have the LP. And I've never heard the money 45 either. So there are at least 5 releases of "put your weight on it" and at least 3 of them are different recordings.

I listened to the eat out more often track mentioned, it has a similar groove but obviously with rudy signifying over the track.

[Ady Croasdell]

ADY,

just added an soundclip and a label scan for the Cherry Red release to the site.

use this link to see and hear

https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/d/161011/MOORE%2C+RUDY+RAY

hope that helps,

up the city!

john

Thanks John, we can't blow it now surely?

[Ady Croasdell]

I was the person who helped Matt put out the Vital Organs. There are actually four released versions (that I know of). Three on 7-inch and one on LP.

The LP is - Rudy Ray Moore presents The Mr. Jerry Walker Album "The Fairy Godmother" (Kent Comedian Series cat. KST-003). This seems to be the same exact version as the one released on Money.

I also have the Generation Records release and the Cherry Red version. All the versions are great.

The best part of putting out the comp was talking to all the musicians. Ben Taylor and Arthur Wright were amazing to talk to and had some great stories. They had said that Mr. Moore always alowed them creative control of the music.

- pat.

Audio Visual Triumphs and Disasters: https://primitivesoundsystem.blogspot.com

You never know where you're gonna end up when you ask a question on here. That's fascinating info from you and Bob. I believe you ended up with Matt's Money 45, did you make a dub of Part 2 at all or could you? As for You Could Be Ugly Too, it's also on a Utopia 45 (listed at least), now is that the same as the LP version? We've got a master tape on that one.

I concur that Ben and Arthur are both wonderful guys Arthur told me a lot of fascinating stories.

[Guest miff]

Just noticed that JMs copy has PYWOI as the plug side and my copy has the other side marked up, but the numberings the same, dose that mean it was teleased twice on cherry red

[Weingarden]

ady: the pat supplying info here is pat longo of new jersey, not pat staten of california.

[Ady Croasdell]

ady: the pat supplying info here is pat longo of new jersey, not pat staten of california.

I blame the Irish.

[Ady Croasdell]

Just noticed that JMs copy has PYWOI as the plug side and my copy has the other side marked up, but the numberings the same, dose that mean it was teleased twice on cherry red

6 releases and counting!

[Guest PSS]

The "live" version is obviously a fake live track. The "Eat Out More Often" version is also obviously a backing track with the rap added after. You can especially tell the live version is fake when the band is introduced by Mr. Moore and suddenly in unison they exclaim, "We are the Filmore Street Soul Rebellion." They don't even sound like they are in the same room. Ben and Arthur apparently like this riff and did variations of it several times perhaps in the same session. I can't imagine they wasted too much time re-recording the same song at different sessions because that is not a common practice of any band. Studio time is usually pretty precious. Maybe they are slightly different takes from the same sessions with different final mixes which would make the most sense.

I have the Money version from The Vital Organs comp and the Generation, Cherry Red and Jerry Walker versions. I will A/B then tonight. Again I remember the Jerry Walker version being very close to the Money version.

Here is the version from Vital Organs i.e the Money Records release - https://recordbrother.typepad.com/imagesili...ght_on_it_1.mp3

Here is the Vital Organ's entry from Gerb's Blog (the man behind Grooovy Sounds Unltd.) - https://recordbrother.typepad.com/imagesilike/page/22/

Ady are you still in contact with them? I could probably track Ben down again and I know he would have the answer.

- pat.

OK, I don't have time to record stuff tonight but I just listened and they are all TOTALLY DIFFERENT TRACKS. The version on the jerry walker LP is a very 60s sounding mod groove. The cherry red track posted here sounds similar but is clearly a different recording, the jerry walker LP sounds sort of like a live version of the song. The generation 45 sounds much more modern. The generation 45 says it's from the turning point LP but I don't know if it's identical since I don't have the LP. And I've never heard the money 45 either. So there are at least 5 releases of "put your weight on it" and at least 3 of them are different recordings.

I listened to the eat out more often track mentioned, it has a similar groove but obviously with rudy signifying over the track.

[Ady Croasdell]

The "live" version is obviously a fake live track. The "Eat Out More Often" version is also obviously a backing track with the rap added after. You can especially tell the live version is fake when the band is introduced by Mr. Moore and suddenly in unison they exclaim, "We are the Filmore Street Soul Rebellion." They don't even sound like they are in the same room. Ben and Arthur apparently like this riff and did variations of it several times perhaps in the same session. I can't imagine they wasted too much time re-recording the same song at different sessions because that is not a common practice of any band. Studio time is usually pretty precious. Maybe they are slightly different takes from the same sessions with different final mixes which would make the most sense.

I have the Money version from The Vital Organs comp and the Generation, Cherry Red and Jerry Walker versions. I will A/B then tonight. Again I remember the Jerry Walker version being very close to the Money version.

Here is the version from Vital Organs i.e the Money Records release - https://recordbrother.typepad.com/imagesili...ght_on_it_1.mp3

Here is the Vital Organ's entry from Gerb's Blog (the man behind Grooovy Sounds Unltd.) - https://recordbrother.typepad.com/imagesilike/page/22/

Ady are you still in contact with them? I could probably track Ben down again and I know he would have the answer.

- pat.

I'm in touch with both of the guys thanks Ben, I'll ring them up to clear the story up before I do the notes. Thanks everyone for your help.

[Guest PSS]

I can't wait to hear what Ben and Arthur have to say. I doubt they will remember me but tell them I said hello.

My rehearsal was canceled so I had some time to A/B the four versions I have...

I just A/B'd the Generation one with the Cherry Red one. It is the same backing track. The vocal on the Generation one fades after Mr. Moore says, "...don't weigh but ninety pounds but she's got a weight on it, keep your weight on it...ho ho ho..." The guitar is brought up in the mix and states the theme (what sounds like Otis Redding's FA FA FA FA FA FA FA FA) followed by the organ (stating SWING LOW SWEET CHARIOT). The tell is a little drum roll that comes RIGHT after the guitar. It is exactly the same on both versions (first a short roll and then a longer one). The Cherry Red mix continues the vocal and crowd noise through the guitar and then the is quickly pushed up in the mix slightly after the organ solo has started. The guitar kicks in and is followed by the two rolls (the first short the second longer; on the Cherry Red version the first roll happens after the woman says "Let's see what you got."). Sadly I like the more instrumental version on Generation but the intro is such a sloppy cut. The Cherry Red cut in is so much more pleasing. The Jerry Walker mix has all the above plus hand claps over the crowd noise. The Money mix to be easily the best version. The Generation and Cherry Red mixes begin after the first organ solo on the Jerry Walker mix. This is obvious as the guitar takes its solo complete with the "FA FA FA FA FA FA FA FA" statement followed by the organ which is cut as the music fades and crowd noise and claps are raised up. The Jerry Walker mix adds a thanks to the band and appreciative crowd applause. The Money / Vital Organs version strips the crowd noise and hand claps and is pretty much the straight studio mix. The sound on the Vital Organs was pushed a bit but it is obvious this is the same version as the other three as all the defining moments are there in the backing track. The Money mix is truly the best version. If you can find one and afford it. Buy it.

- pat.

I'm in touch with both of the guys thanks Ben, I'll ring them up to clear the story up before I do the notes. Thanks everyone for your help.

Edited January 30, 2009 by PSS

[Ady Croasdell]

Thanks Pat, that's saved me a lot of work and you've explained it very clearly. Now we just need to find a copy of 'You Could Be Ugly Too' on Utopia (I can't even remember who it's by, I think it's the Uglys) and A/B that. Could you post up the LP version of that please and I'll compare it with the 45 master.

Cheers

Ady

[Guest PSS]

Here is the LP version of "You Could Be Ugly Too" from Eat Out More Often.

RRMoore_You_Could_Be_Ugly_Too.mp3

The organ is removed and it seems there is a different guitar take (could be the same but something sounds slightly changed to me which could just be the mix). Trombone is added and Mr. Moore's new rap and laughs are added. This starts at what seems to be logically the very beginning of the track. The Bass and Drums are more clearly heard at the intro where on the Money release the band yells out their introduction. Someone here said that EVERY version was different. That could be said but more likely it is just simple pushing up and down of faders to change the mix. It is becoming pretty obvious that these are all from either the same take or slightly different takes from the same session. They got a lot of mileage from this recording and did a great job mixing things up.

OK, so I have a question for you Ady. I posted this in a few different places but no one had an answer for me. A Google search found what looks like a complete discography - https://koti.mbnet.fi/wdd/rudyraymoore.htm or at least as far as I know. Would you happen to know anything about this:

The Rudy Ray Moore Single - "Brother Rapp's Dream" b/w "California Poetry" (Comedians Inc - Personality Series (Underground Series - Adults Only) cat. COM 45 10 (Limited Edition / From The Forthcoming Third Album - Produced by R. R. Moore)

Is this a bootleg? Or is this a less then common promo copy? It seems legit.

Thanks.

Edited January 31, 2009 by PSS

[Ady Croasdell]

Here is the LP version of "You Could Be Ugly Too" from Eat Out More Often.

RRMoore_You_Could_Be_Ugly_Too.mp3

The organ is removed and it seems there is a different guitar take (could be the same but something sounds slightly changed to me which could just be the mix). Trombone is added and Mr. Moore's new rap and laughs are added. This starts at what seems to be logically the very beginning of the track. The Bass and Drums are more clearly heard at the intro where on the Money release the band yells out their introduction. Someone here said that EVERY version was different. That could be said but more likely it is just simple pushing up and down of faders to change the mix. It is becoming pretty obvious that these are all from either the same take or slightly different takes from the same session. They got a lot of mileage from this recording and did a great job mixing things up.

OK, so I have a question for you Ady. I posted this in a few different places but no one had an answer for me. A Google search found what looks like a complete discography - https://koti.mbnet.fi/wdd/rudyraymoore.htm or at least as far as I know. Would you happen to know anything about this:

The Rudy Ray Moore Single - "Brother Rapp's Dream" b/w "California Poetry" (Comedians Inc - Personality Series (Underground Series - Adults Only) cat. COM 45 10 (Limited Edition / From The Forthcoming Third Album - Produced by R. R. Moore)

Is this a bootleg? Or is this a less then common promo copy? It seems legit.

Thanks.

Wow that's some discog, but it doesn't have the Money or Utopia 45s does it? I can't see that his stuff would be bootlegged but i couldn't really tell you. I'll look at our Kent/Modern database and see if there are any other listings.

Thanks for the Ugly thing I'll A/B it next week at work.

[Guest DELORENZO]

So where in the Discog. is this one ??? Rudy Ray Moore - you could be ugly too - Comedians Inc 103