Deep Funk And N/soul What The Funkin' Hell

[Guest Ste Brazil]

I take your point Bearsy and Steve but maybe slightly different in that for the first 5 years or so until Mr. Levine 60's was the only thing we heard. Maybe 1% new releases in a throwback style such as "My man's a sweet man" or something.

Anyway stop backchatting your elders and get those bedrooms tidied up.

ROD

To be honest it could do with a tidy?

[Corbett80]

Is this the sort of reaction The Levine got when he (and all credit to his good self) first played stuff like Mel Britt?? (it was him first wasn't it?....can of worms... )

Edited January 20, 2009 by mulf

[Corbett80]

Have to say I'm hearing some of the best stuff I've ever heard in the last few years.....countless great records and a most of them late 60's early 70's cuts.

[Modernsoulsucks]

Is this the sort of reaction The Levine got when he (and all credit to his good self) first played stuff like Mel Britt?? (it was him first wasn't it?....can of worms... )

The only reaction to Mel Britt was a mad scramble to try and get a copy!!

I presume you're using it as an example of an adverse reaction to the introduction of more 70's tracks when to my recollection at the Mecca there were extremely few if any complaints when the Carstairs,James Fountain, Imperial Wonders on up to Danny Hunt, Danny Reed,Lost Family etc got played as the structure of the songs were no different to those of the 60's.

I'd say mutterings only began when tracks popular on the NY disco scene began to creep in [such as T-Connection, Vickie Sue Robinson] and in a lot of instances were spun in their 12" format. Even then I'd say they didn't cause that much friction until that kinda sound began to dominate the playlist.

To be honest I never even equated Mel with the 70's. No idea when it was made and it certainly doesn't sound much past '71/'72 to me.

ROD

[Paul-s]

I'd be as bemused as you if I heard JB's style funk at a soul do ROD - as bemused as I've been by the spread of RnB and early 60s "Trottover" sounds on the scene over the last 10 or 15 years... never heard Butch play either... thank the Lord

spot on Marco ....i hate the trottover stuff i hear at some point , at almost every event! But it seems to be embraced by the 'Northern' scene...

[Garethx]

I didn't hear too much at the 100 Club on Saturday night which deviated from the template of quality rare soul as we know it. I can think of an occasion there a few years ago when Keb played a few new things from his KayDee productions empire which raised a few eyebrows, but this was nothing like such an occasion.

The fact is that the scene has deviated from finding the next "You're Ready Now" soundalike since the early seventies. Some records which break the mould in a given time can come to have a pretty short shelf life (Black Nasty anyone?), where others become accepted classics ushering in a host of imitators (Kell Osborne on Titanic and Sam Fletcher giving birth to other Popcorn-style sounds being played springs to mind). Other sounds seem to need decades to reach their rightful audience (examples I'm thinking of here are records like Rufus Wood "Before 2001", Delrays Incorporated or The Delegates of Soul).

I maintain that Northern Soul isn't a genre of music as such (how can it be when it can incorporate something like Roy Hamilton's "Earthquake" on one hand and Glenda McCleod on the other) but the best deejays have always had the nouse to realise what will work within the format, and how to create sets out of the building blocks: underexposed Black American music with soul as its bedrock.

It's to the scene's benefit that the foremost collectors can still be bothered to deejay with the kind of records which are exciting them at this moment rather than trotting out a hackneyed approximation of what was shaking the Torch in 1972.

[Guest marco]

Im not saying you or Butch did play JB-style funk. I quite like it anyway. But I have heard "Think" Lynn Collins at Heywood a couple of years back which is epitome of JB style. Surprised but hey, it's a great record.

ROD

Didn't take it you were saying that ROD.

I'm rather fond of a nice slice o popcorn (not the Belgian variety mind) miself at times - just trying to clarify, for the sake of the thread, that nothing like that ever got played on Sat night at 100 club and that people are using the term funk as a bit of a smokescreen, rather than just come out and say they don't like the kind of SOUL being played by Butch at the moment...

My Lyn Collins fave is "You Can't Love Me If You Don't Respect Me" - but that's for another thread I guess!

[Guest]

I didn't hear too much at the 100 Club on Saturday night which deviated from the template of quality rare soul as we know it. I can think of an occasion there a few years ago when Keb played a few new things from his KayDee productions empire which raised a few eyebrows, but this was nothing like such an occasion.

The fact is that the scene has deviated from finding the next "You're Ready Now" soundalike since the early seventies. Some records which break the mould in a given time can come to have a pretty short shelf life (Black Nasty anyone?), where others become accepted classics ushering in a host of imitators (Kell Osborne on Titanic and Sam Fletcher giving birth to other Popcorn-style sounds being played springs to mind). Other sounds seem to need decades to reach their rightful audience (examples I'm thinking of here are records like Rufus Wood "Before 2001", Delrays Incorporated or The Delegates of Soul).

I maintain that Northern Soul isn't a genre of music as such (how can it be when it can incorporate something like Roy Hamilton's "Earthquake" on one hand and Glenda McCleod on the other) but the best deejays have always had the nouse to realise what will work within the format, and how to create sets out of the building blocks: underexposed Black American music with soul as its bedrock.

It's to the scene's benefit that the foremost collectors can still be bothered to deejay with the kind of records which are exciting them at this moment rather than trotting out a hackneyed approximation of what was shaking the Torch in 1972.

Butche's first set didn't do it for me,and no-one can tell us what is was....so we can't compare anything with anything,by the way Earthquake was me last record i played at Burnley and Glenda Mclud is in me collection and have played that out before.

[Pete S]

. Other sounds seem to need decades to reach their rightful audience (examples I'm thinking of here are records like Rufus Wood "Before 2001", Delrays Incorporated or The Delegates of Soul).

Sorry Gareth, I'm not arguing with you on purpose but both Rufus Wood and the Delreys were massive records in 1975 going into 76 and an awful lot of people did appreciate them, the reason you may think they were long forgotten and then revived and re-evaluated is because of the bootleg factor, once a record was booted, that really was the end of it - even records like Lenny Curtis took 20 years to get revived.

[Guest]

Didn't take it you were saying that ROD.

I'm rather fond of a nice slice o popcorn (not the Belgian variety mind) miself at times - just trying to clarify, for the sake of the thread, that nothing like that ever got played on Sat night at 100 club and that people are using the term funk as a bit of a smokescreen, rather than just come out and say they don't like the kind of SOUL being played by Butch at the moment...

My Lyn Collins fave is "You Can't Love Me If You Don't Respect Me" - but that's for another thread I guess!

[Modernsoulsucks]

Sorry Gareth, I'm not arguing with you on purpose but both Rufus Wood and the Delreys were massive records in 1975 going into 76 and an awful lot of people did appreciate them, the reason you may think they were long forgotten and then revived and re-evaluated is because of the bootleg factor, once a record was booted, that really was the end of it - even records like Lenny Curtis took 20 years to get revived.

I was thinking that myself,Pete. I can only assume that the "rightful" audience wasn't us who were buying, listening, and dancing to them at the time.

Im also not so sure that the majority of us were looking for the next Frankie Valli. Maybe the UK collectors who had an unhealthy obssession with that kinda pop stomper having exhausted the soul releases on UK. Im sure most of us were looking for the next... Well it could be any of hundreds but let's say Salvadores.

ROD

[Garethx]

Sorry Gareth, I'm not arguing with you on purpose but both Rufus Wood and the Delreys were massive records in 1975 going into 76 and an awful lot of people did appreciate them, the reason you may think they were long forgotten and then revived and re-evaluated is because of the bootleg factor, once a record was booted, that really was the end of it - even records like Lenny Curtis took 20 years to get revived.

You're right Pete and Rod but I deliberately chose those two for that reason: the scene moved on from these records in 1976 because there were always more records (and indeed other types and styles of record) to focus on in the coming weeks or months: that's not really the case now and 'forgotten oldies' like these resurface because they have something in common, soundwise, with the few new tunes which are current. The so-called 'funk' played at the 100 Club last weekend traces back directly to sounds like these: minor-key, rough-edged soul records which were once massively popular for a time. I don't think that there's suddenly been some seismic departure musically.

What is very different is the context and circumstances in which newies are played now.

It takes months or even years to break even a brilliant record now and once it's been bootlegged or comped that doesn't stop it getting spun even by the so-called top jocks; the sheer number of people going out to events may be broadly comparable but the idea of a weekly huge venue with a concentration of genuinely competitive deejays in one place is something that can probably never be contemplated now; the age of the average niter-goer is now so much higher in comparison as to be mind-boggling (young people tend to have a minute attention span, whereas old 'uns will pretty much suffer anything); and I think a crucial difference is that the amount of people looking for fresh sounds to deejay with is exponentially smaller.

[Garethx]

I was thinking that myself,Pete. I can only assume that the "rightful" audience wasn't us who were buying, listening, and dancing to them at the time.

Im also not so sure that the majority of us were looking for the next Frankie Valli. Maybe the UK collectors who had an unhealthy obssession with that kinda pop stomper having exhausted the soul releases on UK. Im sure most of us were looking for the next... Well it could be any of hundreds but let's say Salvadores.

ROD

Sorry Rod, playing fast and loose with the term 'rightful'. Should have said 'a new audience.'

I still think that if and when the "next Salvadors" turns up that the guy accused of playing deep funk in his first set at the 100 Club would probably be the first one to find and play it. A more pressing worry for me about the current scene is that those deejaying with so-called "popcorn and R&B" would probably not be able to look up from their Tennessee Ernie Ford collections long enough to recognise such a thing.

Edited January 20, 2009 by garethx

[Richard Bayley]

Agree with most of what Gareth and Marco have put on this thread (apart from the blind spot on R&B , of which more later....). Must admit that discussions revolving around soul "genres" and the Northern scene on SS usually leave me bemused. Labels like "funk" and "R&B" are thrown around like swearwords on here at times, yet when "defenders" of the notion of "traditional" Northern discuss actual records with artists and names, I find that Pete Smith loves the Skullsnaps "I'm Your Pimp", a broken beat on-the-one funk record, and Rod likes "Before 2001", which as Gareth points out, could serve as a template for the sounds that seem to be causing a stir on this thread.

As for R&B, the ritual playing of Mickie Champion at Oldies events (usually to a full floor) has always made me chuckle when I think of the stick R&B fans sometimes get on here, and there still appears to be folks on SS who are in denial that the wonderful Bobby & Betty Lou is an R&B choon

Perhaps we'd be be better off discussing actual records .......

PS Not getting at Pete and Rod here, merely quoting them because they have been the most eloquent and outspoken on here on what they regard as "Northern".

[Russ Vickers]

This topic mystifies me a bit. I thought Butch played maybe one record which might be classed as deep funk: I don't know what it was, sorry, but it was a long way from Fatback band style 70s street-funk as in the misleading Youtube clip above. He played an instrumental which can best be summarised as "Tighten Up with stings" but that's been on his playlist for at least the last six months as far as I can recall and has always received a really good reaction from the floor as it has a lot of identity and atmosphere.

I'd be interested to know what contributors feel about records like the Milton James 45 on Dor: so different from traditional northern in practically every respect but has been a staple of Butch's sets for some years now. I suppose because it's a sixties recording it escapes the ire of the purists.

I think both Butch and Marco played the Talmadge Amstrong cover-up, which while a long way from traditional uptown Northern Soul is a tremendously earthy southern obscurity with a lot of soul; similarly the Salt and Pepper 45 is also a long way from something like (off the top of my head) Lynne Randell; but to me it fits in perfectly with the ethos of the 100 Club: a basement in the middle of Cosmopolitan London, not a church-hall in rural Lincolnshire. It's also worth mentioning that Marco played a couple of things first time out like the Tempests and Precisions cover-ups which would be classed as classic group harmony Northern in anyone's book, so to characterise these sets as purely funky is slightly misleading.

I think the balance was just about right on Saturday, as the other deejays offered a counterpoint to what else was going on: Keith has his own thing going on with lighter and more melodic stuff, Mick threw a few classic oldies in and Ady offered a few unfamiliar sounds with the classic textures of (non-funky) uptown soul. To me the strength of the 100 Club has always been its eclecticism. Playing sets of largely unfamiliar records is sometimes going to be challenging and not everything is going to stick and become a classic, but I applaud the intention of trying to keep things fresh.

Absolutely perfect Gareth, brilliant & accurate desciption of a great nighter...........

Russ

[KevH]

Agree with most of what Gareth and Marco have put on this thread (apart from the blind spot on R&B , of which more later....). Must admit that discussions revolving around soul "genres" and the Northern scene on SS usually leave me bemused. Labels like "funk" and "R&B" are thrown around like swearwords on here at times, yet when "defenders" of the notion of "traditional" Northern discuss actual records with artists and names, I find that Pete Smith loves the Skullsnaps "I'm Your Pimp", a broken beat on-the-one funk record, and Rod likes "Before 2001", which as Gareth points out, could serve as a template for the sounds that seem to be causing a stir on this thread.

As for R&B, the ritual playing of Mickie Champion at Oldies events (usually to a full floor) has always made me chuckle when I think of the stick R&B fans sometimes get on here, and there still appears to be folks on SS who are in denial that the wonderful Bobby & Betty Lou is an R&B choon

Perhaps we'd be be better off discussing actual records .......

PS Not getting at Pete and Rod here, merely quoting them because they have been the most eloquent and outspoken on here on what they regard as "Northern".

Hi Richard,had this conversation many times about Mickie Champion.

Was it the first big RnB number to be thought of as Northern Only?.Never heard anyone class it as Rnb,but that's what i hear.

Rufus Wood to me,has funk overtones,but again fully acepted as Northern.

[Guest]

Looks like funksters are takin' over soul/source,like i say again if i dont like it i will leave i am not tellin' folks not to listen to funk,but if there is no soul in it andn a bonkers beat it aint soul or northern,sorry for upsetting everyone Gareth and Rod you two carry on you obviously know more than i do.

And for the record, I Kenneth Aitchison of sound mind did not like Butches first set at the 100club and i not being a expert on funk and stuff thought it was to funky and did not fit in with the ethos of the 100club,sorry for being thick !! carry on !!

[Kev Moore]

Looks like funksters are takin' over soul/source,like i say again if i dont like it i will leave i am not tellin' folks not to listen to funk,but if there is no soul in it andn a bonkers beat it aint soul or northern,sorry for upsetting everyone Gareth and Rod you two carry on you obviously know more than i do.

And for the record, I Kenneth Aitchison of sound mind did not like Butches first set at the 100club and i not being a expert on funk and stuff thought it was to funky and did not fit in with the ethos of the 100club,sorry for being thick !! carry on !!

Youre not thick Kenny just round.

And you're entitled to your opinion.

Kev

[jocko]

I am slightly bemused on this also on a number of levels, reading betweenthe lines this could be deemed as a thinly veiled attack on the 2 DJ's in question, however anyone that knows Kenny knows that is just not his style nor his nature.

I would question the use of Funk here, I doubt whether anyone would advocate playing out and out Funk of any sorts at Northern all-nighter, and I am assuming our Australian SS member is showing his wicked sense of humour, which was quite funny actually, all the more so because I have heard his choice dropped into House sets by some of the more adventurous and soul biased House DJ's. The track he chose is not the best in its genre but a reasonably toe tapping effort, however not really one that many would equate with a full dance floor at a Northern all-nighter I suspect.

Knowing the two DJ's in question as well as I do, I seriously doubt whether they played Deep Funk all night, both are at the forefront of cutting edge stuff that lots of us like, not for everyone obviously, but realistically it comes back to that old adage of if the dancefloor takes to it really is Northern, whether we like it or not is obviously a different question. Reading Gareth's post seems to confirm that and also knowing Gareth as I do his word does it for me, as always the most insightful post on here from Gareth.

Surely people like Mr Santucci as the youngish (although dont look too closely at the lines around his eyes early in the morning) Buck and Butch as the wise, if grumpy, old master are exactly what the progressive Northern scene is all about, I sometime get the impression on here that people just don't appreciate Butch which saddens me greatly.

I am not sure about this stand of Northern always being only standard 4/4, I still say this really depends on when you started and when you attended. I would suggest, as someone who only really started going regularly in mid 79, this would not apply. I was as likely to hear 70's then 80's new sounds, as well as some slower stuff at almost any venue I attended, certainly not all night, but would suggest it was the norm for me until well into the 80's, this was just Northern to me then, so why should it be any different now. Ironically it changed thanks to people like Mr Shard and Mr Withers and the other 60's Mafia who followed them who produced significant amounts of new 60's that were not only good, they were great. But then the tempos and even style changed, and would say soul with a funky edge started to make its way, howabout stuff like Buddy Connor Rod, one of yours and Dave's was it not, and wouldn't say that's traditional style.

To be honest I am most bemused by the drive to take all-nighters back to uptempo only that seems to be growing out there. Despite it being implied here, I would say that is really a relatively recently innovation (or backwards step depending on your view). As said above from 79 to mid 90's there was a generally mix of genre's and tempos that encompassed the SWWWONS ( © JOC Strange & Wacky, but Wide reaching World of Northern Soul) of those days. I would agree that mid 90's it got too wide for me, and too early for my dancing styles, but like everything that was my personal taste, it seemed to suit some, particularly the returning hordes!

It seems to be far more single tracked now than ever, with all nighters now advocating Uptempo 60';s only, so not only is it decade specific it has to be one style within that style, very limiting and I tend to find this impacts on quality and reduces the amount of soul records that are used, not for me personally but it obviously works for lots these days, I hear Burnley is completely the exception to my assumptions above, but I suspect that is the exception and the majority of other such venues are geared towards the Nostalgia crowd, rapidly returning to the fold, their faith renewed. Don't get me wrong, in my rare ventures out these days I would actually not mind a night of good uptempo 60's unkown soul all night, as I do tend to dance much more than I used to, however I suspect very few venues can actually deliver this I would suggest and the quality of music generally ebbs and flows during night.

Having been watching this debate rage for nearly 30 years it is somewhat ironic that the 100 club, that bastion of 6ts soul is at the heart of debate, I for one am glad it is, don't change it Ady, the place is still unique.

I am glad places like Lifeline and Middleton that seem to offer a selection of styles are still leading the way in progressive all-nighter world along with the 100 Club, so surely its not just the keyboard warriors (before Mr McCabe says it) like me think like this, ..... is it?

Edited January 20, 2009 by jocko

[Guest]

Hi Richard,had this conversation many times about Mickie Champion.

Was it the first big RnB number to be thought of as Northern Only?.Never heard anyone class it as Rnb,but that's what i hear.

Very surprised at this comment.........couldn't be anything else. Defo R&B in my book

[Guest]

Agree with most of what Gareth and Marco have put on this thread (apart from the blind spot on R&B , of which more later....). Must admit that discussions revolving around soul "genres" and the Northern scene on SS usually leave me bemused. Labels like "funk" and "R&B" are thrown around like swearwords on here at times, yet when "defenders" of the notion of "traditional" Northern discuss actual records with artists and names, I find that Pete Smith loves the Skullsnaps "I'm Your Pimp", a broken beat on-the-one funk record, and Rod likes "Before 2001", which as Gareth points out, could serve as a template for the sounds that seem to be causing a stir on this thread.

As for R&B, the ritual playing of Mickie Champion at Oldies events (usually to a full floor) has always made me chuckle when I think of the stick R&B fans sometimes get on here, and there still appears to be folks on SS who are in denial that the wonderful Bobby & Betty Lou is an R&B choon

Perhaps we'd be be better off discussing actual records .......

PS Not getting at Pete and Rod here, merely quoting them because they have been the most eloquent and outspoken on here on what they regard as "Northern".

Totally agree. Got loadsa mates that swear blind they don't like R&B and then swiftly

get up and dance to something that is so in yer face R&B yer'd 'ave to be totally deaf

to not realise

[Modernsoulsucks]

Sorry Rod, playing fast and loose with the term 'rightful'. Should have said 'a new audience.'

I still think that if and when the "next Salvadors" turns up that the guy accused of playing deep funk in his first set at the 100 Club would probably be the first one to find and play it. A more pressing worry for me about the current scene is that those deejaying with so-called "popcorn and R&B" would probably not be able to look up from their Tennessee Ernie Ford collections long enough to recognise such a thing.

Im sorry Gareth, I thought you were having a go at us traditionalists by singling out Frankie Valli and implying we'd ignored Rufus Wood etc the first time around as being too funky or cutting edge.

I've no idea to what Ken is referring but I would have thought he'd been around long enough to have been exposed to the funkier side of NS [if Rufus Wood is such?] that I was interested in what exactly could have overstepped his particular parameters.

I think we all have limits as to what we view as coming under the Northern banner but obviously not the same for everyone. However whatever the limits can anyone deny that the thread that has continued from the beginning has been the Motownesque 60's dancer. Im guessing most people on here would like to turn up the next Salvadores.

Are you trying to get me in trouble with that Tennessee Ernie reference? Late 50's/early 60's R&B is that bridge too far for me and no amount of comparison to 45s like Mickie Champion or Ray Agee[soul Town] is gonna convince me that the odd gritty mid 60's soul record is anything to do with it.

What is a "trottover"

ROD

[Pete S]

Very surprised at this comment.........couldn't be anything else. Defo R&B in my book

Sorry me too - never even thought of this as R&B, ever - pure Northern, always has been

[Sunnysoul]

What'll it take to get Butch on here so we can hear what he's got to say ?

[Corbett80]

Sorry me too - never even thought of this as R&B, ever - pure Northern, always has been

Rhythm & Soul??

[Jason S]

What'll it take to get Butch on here so we can hear what he's got to say ?

Well, he was on the the thread and having a look yesterday but I guess chose not to get involved. Would still be good to see a playlist to see what the offending tracks were.

[Marc Forrest]

It is very interesting to see some comparing the current rise of "funky" Rare Soul to the rise of R&B in the mid to late nineties. I think I can safely say that I was amongst the first to play R&B intensively and I still remember the reactions I got for that from most of the people including those who these days collect and play R&B themselves.

10 to 15 years back R&B was a fresh (and because of that needed) new blood injection that sadly was f***ed up because of too many people being annoyed (including me) by all that white popcorn sh**te having been and still getting advertised as R&B. IMO.

"Funky" Rare Soul, or say Rare Soul with a funky edge to it has been around since day one as has already been said on here and proven by records like Delrey`s Inc. etc. but it is safe to say that this certain sound has found new friends and has become stronger than ever before on the European Scene (incl. the UK!) over the last eight to ten years.

So I am a little bit amazed to see this topic now.

Records like Delegates Of Soul along heavily spun "new" Modern discoveries that found their way onto the Northern Dancefloors like Ellipsis etc. made the ground for what these days hopefully will achieve what R&B has failed to do...to fresh things up with new BLACK Soul tunes and to attract also new people, new collectors etc. Its already happening and working all over the place, it will also work in England.

If some out of the hundreds of new tunes which will hopefully get played over the next few years will put some people off because to their ears some sound too "funky"...well...it never has been different on this scene has it and I am sure we can live with that.

Hopefully.

Marc

[Guest]

It is very interesting to see some comparing the current rise of "funky" Rare Soul to the rise of R&B in the mid to late nineties. I think I can safely say that I was amongst the first to play R&B intensively and I still remember the reactions I got for that from most of the people including those who these days collect and play R&B themselves.

10 to 15 years back R&B was a fresh (and because of that needed) new blood injection that sadly was f***ed up because of too many people being annoyed (including me) by all that white popcorn sh**te having been and still getting advertised as R&B. IMO.

"Funky" Rare Soul, or say Rare Soul with a funky edge to it has been around since day one as has already been said on here and proven by records like Delrey`s Inc. etc. but it is safe to say that this certain sound has found new friends and has become stronger than ever before on the European Scene (incl. the UK!) over the last eight to ten years.

So I am a little bit amazed to see this topic now.

Records like Delegates Of Soul along heavily spun "new" Modern discoveries that found their way onto the Northern Dancefloors like Ellipsis etc. made the ground for what these days hopefully will achieve what R&B has failed to do...to fresh things up with new BLACK Soul tunes and to attract also new people, new collectors etc. Its already happening and working all over the place, it will also work in England.

If some out of the hundreds of new tunes which will hopefully get played over the next few years will put some people off because to their ears some sound too "funky"...well...it never has been different on this scene has it and I am sure we can live with that.

Hopefully.

Marc

So the northernsoul scene is dead then.i think it'll save me thousands of pounds every year,a few europeans dont make a n/soul scene,and R+B is and as been part of the scene since day one,streight up funk as not and if it gets new folk in it'll have old ones leavin',good luck with your new scene it was shit while it lasted,what does cutting edge

mean ? anoying !

Edited January 21, 2009 by ken

[Guest marco]

So the northernsoul scene is dead then.i think it'll save me thousands of pounds every year,a few europeans dont make a n/soul scene,and R+B is and as been part of the scene since day one,streight up funk as not and if it gets new folk in it'll have old ones leavin',good luck with your new scene it was shit while it lasted,what does cutting edge

mean ? anoying !

No one's playing straight up funk tho Ken!

As for R&B being part of the scene from the beginning and not "funk"... The Crow, Ree Flores, Eric Mercury (a bit later, I know)....all have funkier drum patterns and are about as 'funky' as it ever got on Saturday at the 100 club...

And tighten-up style things have always been parr for the course too methinks?

[Godzilla]

So is Funk accepted at a Northern night, thats where im getting a bit confused now as i thought the 100 Club was about soul and most things soulful, its not about if i dont like someones set cos you cant like them all, if Funk is going to be more predominant in the Northern scene then like Ken i wont want to go to them places that want to play it as there is a choice, but nplease why do people who play out and out funk insist on putting it on the northern crowd

im sorry thats just my ignorent take on funk at a northern venue

Here's another one that'll have you running for the door pretty soon then I should think

** Link ** Coming soon to a Northern Room near you - New KGF 45! **

Edited January 21, 2009 by Godzilla

[Paul-s]

What'll it take to get Butch on here so we can hear what he's got to say ?

Why should he bother coming on here, hes too busy finding and playing music to waste time discussing the semantics of categorisation....I would imagine

[Marc Forrest]

So the northernsoul scene is dead then.i think it'll save me thousands of pounds every year,

Where does it say so Ken ? But don`t you agree that a few fresh tunes and people only can do the scene good ? Who will be interested in what you buy every year for a couple of thousands if there is no influx of new people = no scene in five to ten years ?

a few europeans dont make a n/soul scene,

I think you will find its already a bit more then only a few mate LOL.

and R+B is and as been part of the scene since day one,

If you go back to the days of the Twisted Wheel of course you are right, "That Driving Beat" and its contenders always had their place but not in the sense of what the liner notes of Ady`s "New Breed" CD`s for example are on about. Surely you are not saying that there`hasn`t been a heavy R&B revival/influx over the last ten years ?

streight up funk as not and if it gets new folk in it'll have old ones leavin',

Don`t think so. No one is talking about a new scene, I am only on about widening the horizon and letting a few more tunes in in the vein of Ree Flores, Delegates or what have ya...if someone is not so keen on that one certain tune being played one can always sit down again and wait for the next one to suit his taste more. Always been like that, hasn`t it ?

good luck with your new scene it was shit while it lasted,

As I said, no new scene at all. Or do you declare the 100 already as its new home

...and I like that funky tune on Essica you posted on Soul Source a few days ago mate

Marc

Edited January 21, 2009 by Marc Forrest

[Guest john s]

A few years ago I bought some nice funk 45s from a Nothern collector - nothing particularly rare, things like the Caprells 'Close Your Eyes', and he said they weren't funk, they were old Stafford records...

[Guest Bearsy]

Here's another one that'll have you running for the door pretty soon then I should think

** Link ** Coming soon to a Northern Room near you - New KGF 45! **

Actually i quite like that sounds cheap and cheerful but its ok

i would class that as either funky soul or souly funk

ok is someone going to tell me its out and out Funk and rare and expensive and the likes of JT are playing it out

fook this funk malarky its doing my head in now, i know what i like

[Godzilla]

ok is someone going to tell me its out and out Funk and rare and expensive and the likes of JT are playing it out

Blimey Bearsy! You must have had yer head in a bucket last year when all the debate about Kings Go Forth was going on

Looks like this one will start another round then. Not sure where the idea that funk isn't soulful comes from though...

[Guest Bearsy]

Blimey Bearsy! You must have had yer head in a bucket last year when all the debate about Kings Go Forth was going on

Looks like this one will start another round then. Not sure where the idea that funk isn't soulful comes from though...

I wasnt around for about 5/6 months last year as i had a few things going on outside soul source so missed all about KGF i guess but i did hear some rumours

Anyway funk is funk aint it soul is soul but then there is funky soul or soulful funk and deep funk and wishy washy funk and wikky wakky funk and trottover funk and frunky funk and funk thats not really funk but sounds like funk and not R&B but funkish funk

well thats me all funked out now so im gonna funk off and do some house work listening to Kings go fifth

[Guest]

...and I like that funky tune on Essica you posted on Soul Source a few days ago mate

Marc

I'll stick it in me play box the Marc .........

[Guest]

No one's playing straight up funk tho Ken!

As for R&B being part of the scene from the beginning and not "funk"... The Crow, Ree Flores, Eric Mercury (a bit later, I know)....all have funkier drum patterns and are about as 'funky' as it ever got on Saturday at the 100 club...

And tighten-up style things have always been parr for the course too methinks?

I wouldnt know Marco,still didnt like it.............i'm gonna' blame the sound system.

[Ceejay]

I wasnt around for about 5/6 months last year as i had a few things going on outside soul source so missed all about KGF i guess but i did hear some rumours

Anyway funk is funk aint it soul is soul but then there is funky soul or soulful funk and deep funk and wishy washy funk and wikky wakky funk and trottover funk and frunky funk and funk thats not really funk but sounds like funk and not R&B but funkish funk

well thats me all funked out now so im gonna funk off and do some house work listening to Kings go fifth

FUNKIN class post!!!!

[Benji]

It is very interesting to see some comparing the current rise of "funky" Rare Soul to the rise of R&B in the mid to late nineties. I think I can safely say that I was amongst the first to play R&B intensively and I still remember the reactions I got for that from most of the people including those who these days collect and play R&B themselves.

10 to 15 years back R&B was a fresh (and because of that needed) new blood injection that sadly was f***ed up because of too many people being annoyed (including me) by all that white popcorn sh**te having been and still getting advertised as R&B. IMO.

"Funky" Rare Soul, or say Rare Soul with a funky edge to it has been around since day one as has already been said on here and proven by records like Delrey`s Inc. etc. but it is safe to say that this certain sound has found new friends and has become stronger than ever before on the European Scene (incl. the UK!) over the last eight to ten years.

So I am a little bit amazed to see this topic now.

Records like Delegates Of Soul along heavily spun "new" Modern discoveries that found their way onto the Northern Dancefloors like Ellipsis etc. made the ground for what these days hopefully will achieve what R&B has failed to do...to fresh things up with new BLACK Soul tunes and to attract also new people, new collectors etc. Its already happening and working all over the place, it will also work in England.

If some out of the hundreds of new tunes which will hopefully get played over the next few years will put some people off because to their ears some sound too "funky"...well...it never has been different on this scene has it and I am sure we can live with that.

Hopefully.

Marc

Marc, I'm confused. Which scene "10 to 15 years back" are you talking about? Berlin? England?

Surely not the german scene in the early/mid 90s in general because

a) nobody was fed up with Northern, R&B, Modern or whatever. It was across the board with emphasis on 60s soul and

I don't recall you attending any german events outside of Berlin back then. So how would you have noticed?

I travelled all over Germany, Austria and Northern Italy from early 90s to early 2K's and the music was always mixed.

Maybe you got fed up playing "traditional" Northern at the Hip City club and moved towards R&B sounds but certainly not the german soul scene as it was 10, 15 years ago.

[Marc Forrest]

FUNKIN class post!!!!

Agree, brilliant!

[Guest]

Sorry me too - never even thought of this as R&B, ever - pure Northern, always has been

IT WAS R&B BEFORE IT 'BECAME' NORTHERN MY FRIEND

Edited January 21, 2009 by The Joker

[Guest]

IT WAS R&B BEFORE IT 'BECAME' NORTHERN MY FRIEND

All the stuff we listen to is some form of R+B except FUNK !!

[Marc Forrest]

Marc, I'm confused. Which scene "10 to 15 years back" are you talking about? Berlin? England?

Surely not the german scene in the early/mid 90s in general because

a) nobody was fed up with Northern, R&B, Modern or whatever. It was across the board with emphasis on 60s soul and

I don't recall you attending any german events outside of Berlin back then. So how would you have noticed?

I travelled all over Germany, Austria and Northern Italy from early 90s to early 2K's and the music was always mixed.

Maybe you got fed up playing "traditional" Northern at the Hip City club and moved towards R&B sounds but certainly not the german soul scene as it was 10, 15 years ago.

Dear Benji, you are not confused at all, you just like to try to shoot your shot at me (as always..although it has become quite predictable and therefore boring over the years).

You simply can`t remember me outside Berlin because we didn`t knew each other and you were not even into Rare Soul back in the day. Simple as that. I attended events outside Berlin before you were even told to play your 7" at 45 rpm.

I am talking about the scene in England where I deejayed for the very first time 1991. I am talking about Berlin and the rest of Germany and I am talking about Austria where I deejayed somewhere around 1989 for the very first time.

It was by the way you along others I had in mind when I wrote "same people who are now collecting R&B" as I can recall it just like it was yesterday when on the old Soul Talk email list about ten years ago you were trying really hard to tell me and everybody else that R&B ain`t Soul at all and that its the last thing you would want to hear at a Soulnight.

Marc

[Guest]

Dear Benji, you are not confused at all, you just like to try to shoot your shot at me (as always..although it has become quite predictable and therefore boring over the years).

You simply can`t remember me outside Berlin because we didn`t knew each other and you were not even into Rare Soul back in the day. Simple as that. I attended events outside Berlin before you were even told to play your 7" at 45 rpm.

I am talking about the scene in England where I deejayed for the very first time 1991. I am talking about Berlin and the rest of Germany and I am talking about Austria where I deejayed somewhere around 1989 for the very first time.

It was by the way you along others I had in mind when I wrote "same people who are now collecting R&B" as I can recall it just like it was yesterday when on the old Soul Talk email list about ten years ago you were trying really hard to tell me and everybody else that R&B ain`t Soul at all and that its the last thing you would want to hear at a Soulnight.

Marc

Now now lets not fall out lads.

[Billywhizz]

Personaly i go to allnighters to listen to N/soul not hard core funk,i like funk but it as to have a stonkin' back beat that dont let up,not that choppy changey rare crap i am hearing out.....you can keep,and the fans that come with it aint much better i dont want me shoes all danced on,stupid unco-ordinated dance action..........djs if your fed up of northern fook off somewhere else and stop trying to drag us into funk stupidity.

Respect Ken

Hey Up big man, i mentioned this about a year ago, i know where u coming from, heard in the grapevine' top spot last friday, u blow any top jock away keep the good work up billy

[Guest]

Hey Up big man, i mentioned this about a year ago, i know where u coming from, heard in the grapevine' top spot last friday, u blow any top jock away keep the good work up billy

Cheers Billy,see you soon.

[Ady Croasdell]

I do think there is a lack of tolerance around at the moment, most people seem OK with mid 60s uptempo soul but the R&B lovers don't like funkier early 70s style sounds and that lot don't like R&B (nor for some reason Latin which seems quite funky to me). At the 100 Club we've always tried to cater for different crowds and try different DJs. If you're not keen on a DJ's style there's usually another along in 30 or 40 minutes (that's why I started those type of timings and stick with them) and I try to contrast the Djs with the ones either side of their spot.

I also try and get DJs who can cover more than one area and if the style they prefer ain't working they can try another (or newies/oldies as opposed to style)

[Guest]

I do think there is a lack of tolerance around at the moment, most people seem OK with mid 60s uptempo soul but the R&B lovers don't like funkier early 70s style sounds and that lot don't like R&B (nor for some reason Latin which seems quite funky to me). At the 100 Club we've always tried to cater for different crowds and try different DJs. If you're not keen on a DJ's style there's usually another along in 30 or 40 minutes (that's why I started those type of timings and stick with them) and I try to contrast the Djs with the ones either side of their spot.

I also try and get DJs who can cover more than one area and if the style they prefer ain't working they can try another (or newies/oldies as opposed to style)

I can tolerate most styles Ady and dance to em',but a half hour set of rubbish ? might as well put me on hope you don't think this anti-100club thread,it ain't.

[Ady Croasdell]

I can tolerate most styles Ady and dance to em',but a half hour set of rubbish ? might as well put me on hope you don't think this anti-100club thread,it ain't.

i don't, it isn't