This Q May Arse A Few Off

[Pauldonnelly]

I ask a perfectly innocuous thought provoking question and get the usual mudslinging shyte from the usual suspects, I dunno

[Guest dundeedavie]

I think I know my stuff musically too hence my complete amazement, bafflement, and finally anger. It's not really what I signed up to all those years ago. A travesty of the original ethos.

ROD

andy does indeed know his stuff when it comes to good and danceable R&B tunes .... and in my opinion , on the R&B scene thats what we care about

[Realpeoplesmusic]

I think I know my stuff musically too hence my complete amazement, bafflement, and finally anger. It's not really what I signed up to all those years ago. A travesty of the original ethos.

ROD

Who signs up to anything you either like it or you dont, there's allot of northern stuff i dont particularly like but i still go to niters and have a dance to the tunes i do like. Original ethos whats that then? The travesty is people thinkning thier the dogs bollocks and think they know it all . Least we agree on 1 thing 'modernsoulsucks' really does suck

[Modernsoulsucks]

Who signs up to anything you either like it or you dont, there's allot of northern stuff i dont particularly like but i still go to niters and have a dance to the tunes i do like. Original ethos whats that then? The travesty is people thinkning thier the dogs bollocks and think they know it all . Least we agree on 1 thing 'modernsoulsucks' really does suck

Er... it was 4/4 Motown and Motownesque soul music. Not early 60's R&B, not rock'n'roll and certainly not Tennesseee Ernie Ford. Maybe you could explain to me and others like Dave Moore who are interested where exactly you think TEF fits in.

My own view is that it doesn't because it has no link to Black soul music that I can discern.

ROD

[Rushden Vic]

Does the term r&b mean the stuff that would never have got any plays in any decent venue , cause basically its crap

and is it usually played by 2nd rate djs who either have no taste ,knowledge or access to decent soul music.

Edited January 9, 2009 by tony parker

[Guest andrew bin]

Does the term r&b mean the stuff that would never have got any plays in any decent venue , cause basically its crap

and is it usually played by 2nd rate djs who either have no taste ,knowledge or access to decent soul music.

no i think it stands for Rhythm and Blues

Edited January 9, 2009 by andrew bin

[Tabs]

Totally agree Rod.

That record has NO relevance to any soul scene. Period.

I think I know my stuff musically too hence my complete amazement, bafflement, and finally anger. It's not really what I signed up to all those years ago. A travesty of the original ethos.

ROD

[Dave Moore]

Er... it was 4/4 Motown and Motownesque soul music. Not early 60's R&B, not rock'n'roll and certainly not Tennesseee Ernie Ford. Maybe you could explain to me and others like Dave Moore who are interested where exactly you think TEF fits in.

My own view is that it doesn't because it has no link to Black soul music that I can discern.

ROD

The fact that things like TEF are accepted nowadays is one of the reasons I am careful about where I go. Although, to be honest it was played in an RnB room which is about as alien to me as C/W anyway so I'm in no way criticising the record or that particular genre of music per se, I don't posses the knowledge for that. My 'problem', if it could be described as that, is when this style of record ends up on the Technics at a Soul event in a soul room. I'd much rather hear something that makes me think .."Haven't heard that in years" than listen to a C/W influenced dreary plodder that makes me think..."Eh, WTF?" The observation that it filled a dancefloor is quite right. Many people enjoy it. That's great. But they're RnB fans. Maybe a true RnB fan would be better qualified to comment on it's merits (or lack of them) , as an RnB record. Me? I just wanna stay on the soul track when I venture out. Things like The Five Royals set my teeth on edge every time I hear them at a soul do. They also pack the dancefloors so maybe it says more about the dancers than the record? To me it's about the strings of Revilot, the tinkling keyboard of the Harthon set up, the impassioned vocal of a Roy Hamilton, the synchopated, almost telepathic duo of drum and bass as Jamerson and Benjamin practiced. The likes of Len Jewel, Don Davis, Fred Smith, James Carmichael, LeBaron Taylor, HDH, G&H, etc are the authentic exponents not some old geezer who our mothers used to twirl to just after the war. TEF? Thanks but no. He was probably a real nice guy but.........not for me I'm afraid.

All a personal choice I suppose.

[Guest Andy56]

Unfortunately I'm to young for this, for a while anyway

Could you play some Des O'conner for my mate Rod?

The Carousel Club - many go in, none come out

I'll just go and put on my patterned cardigan, light my pipe and then play some Bachelors for your mate Rod!

Sorry but Des O'Gonner is far too heavy man.

[Koolkat]

The fact that things like TEF are accepted nowadays is one of the reasons I am careful about where I go. Although, to be honest it was played in an RnB room which is about as alien to me as C/W anyway so I'm in no way criticising the record or that particular genre of music per se, I don't posses the knowledge for that. My 'problem', if it could be described as that, is when this style of record ends up on the Technics at a Soul event in a soul room. I'd much rather hear something that makes me think .."Haven't heard that in years" than listen to a C/W influenced dreary plodder that makes me think..."Eh, WTF?" The observation that it filled a dancefloor is quite right. Many people enjoy it. That's great. But they're RnB fans. Maybe a true RnB fan would be better qualified to comment on it's merits (or lack of them) , as an RnB record. Me? I just wanna stay on the soul track when I venture out. Things like The Five Royals set my teeth on edge every time I hear them at a soul do. They also pack the dancefloors so maybe it says more about the dancers than the record? To me it's about the strings of Revilot, the tinkling keyboard of the Harthon set up, the impassioned vocal of a Roy Hamilton, the synchopated, almost telepathic duo of drum and bass as Jamerson and Benjamin practiced. The likes of Len Jewel, Don Davis, Fred Smith, James Carmichael, LeBaron Taylor, HDH, G&H, etc are the authentic exponents not some old geezer who our mothers used to twirl to just after the war. TEF? Thanks but no. He was probably a real nice guy but.........not for me I'm afraid.

All a personal choice I suppose.

Thats a top post sir,.....a top post.

[Guest]

no i think it stands for Rhythm and Blues

[Guest]

The fact that things like TEF are accepted nowadays is one of the reasons I am careful about where I go. Although, to be honest it was played in an RnB room which is about as alien to me as C/W anyway so I'm in no way criticising the record or that particular genre of music per se, I don't posses the knowledge for that. My 'problem', if it could be described as that, is when this style of record ends up on the Technics at a Soul event in a soul room. I'd much rather hear something that makes me think .."Haven't heard that in years" than listen to a C/W influenced dreary plodder that makes me think..."Eh, WTF?" The observation that it filled a dancefloor is quite right. Many people enjoy it. That's great. But they're RnB fans. Maybe a true RnB fan would be better qualified to comment on it's merits (or lack of them) , as an RnB record. Me? I just wanna stay on the soul track when I venture out. Things like The Five Royals set my teeth on edge every time I hear them at a soul do. They also pack the dancefloors so maybe it says more about the dancers than the record? To me it's about the strings of Revilot, the tinkling keyboard of the Harthon set up, the impassioned vocal of a Roy Hamilton, the synchopated, almost telepathic duo of drum and bass as Jamerson and Benjamin practiced. The likes of Len Jewel, Don Davis, Fred Smith, James Carmichael, LeBaron Taylor, HDH, G&H, etc are the authentic exponents not some old geezer who our mothers used to twirl to just after the war. TEF? Thanks but no. He was probably a real nice guy but.........not for me I'm afraid.

All a personal choice I suppose.

Nice record label....I've a few tasty R & B tunes on Revilot Dave!

It is all subjective though and down to personal choice...."why cant we all just get along?"

[Johnmcc]

why do blokes in their 50's need to do all-nighters?

Last night at Wilton answers this question

[Mark S]

why do blokes in their 50's need to do all-nighters?

Why shouldnt they ?

[Guest]

Nah I don't think it particularly is R&B...but I know for sure the R&B crowd like it...me included...it got a good dancefloor reaction when he played it regardless...and I can see why he played it too...it slots in nicely with the genre IMO...genuinely linked...so you can't throw it in there with Soulful House because pardon my french but that's just bollocks...

Yeah cos House is great. Unlike Country and Western.. You'll be playing Tammy Wynette next.

We play both kinda music.. Country and Western

ffs get a grip of yaself. Cos some spotty face mod plays it, it don't mean it's good a real Mod in the 60's would have beaten the crap out of him for that. I can just imagine it down the Scene.

As for Manchester starting it all. It was London Mods that started all night soul do's. The Manc copied us.

[Pauldonnelly]

Why shouldnt they ?

best answer yet, why shouldn't they indeed.

[Guest]

Yeah cos House is great. Unlike Country and Western.. You'll be playing Tammy Wynette next.

We play both kinda music.. Country and Western

ffs get a grip of yaself. Cos some spotty face mod plays it, it don't mean it's good a real Mod in the 60's would have beaten the crap out of him for that. I can just imagine it down the Scene.

As for Manchester starting it all. It was London Mods that started all night soul do's. The Manc copied us.

And you need to do a bit of research/get your facts right before you post abusive and factually incorrect rubbish like that! The d.j in question (Kid Mohair) is a member of this forum and is in his late 40's (48 to be precise) I don't think he'd be impressed by you referring to him as 'some spotty face mod'. He's been on the soul scene a long time and owns some quality vinyl!

[Guest]

And you need to do a bit of research/get your facts right before you post abusive and factually incorrect rubbish like that! The d.j in question (Kid Mohair) is a member of this forum and is in his late 40's (48 to be precise) I don't think he'd be impressed by you referring to him as 'some spotty face mod'. He's been on the soul scene a long time and owns some quality vinyl!

Really.. Then he should know better then.

I'm in my late 40's and still and always have leaned to the Mod.. And i would never ever even thought about playing that.

Or know anyone that would.

[Pauldonnelly]

going back to my original and to be honest 'loaded' question it always amuses me when certain members ridicule the handbaggers who merely want to have a soul night of fun dancing to music they grew up with 30 odd years ago, accusing some of being fossils who need to 'move on' and forget what happened 30 years ago.

When in reality those same people who enjoy ridiculing are IN FACT the ones who seem to be besotted with everything 1970's that apart from dressing the part carry on the habits from yesteryear to the extreme.

My passion is 1) listening to stuff ive never heard before that I want then to track down and add to my collection 2) sitting down with like minded individuals with a beer and appreciating rerecords you can't here in too many places re Ted Massey at the Attic and 3) sharing my records via the dj booth occasionally, I guess I may have just answered my own question, or have I?

PD

Edited January 10, 2009 by PaulDonnelly

[Robnewbury]

Maybe the same reason mountaineers give for climbing mountains......because its there.

Because some of us cant do anything else all night anymore!!

[Guest andrew bin]

Because some of us cant do anything else all night anymore!!

and it keeps them off the streets

[Guest]

Really.. Then he should know better then.

I'm in my late 40's and still and always have leaned to the Mod.. And i would never ever even thought about playing that.

Or know anyone that would.

I don't particularly like the record in question either,but I am a big R & B fan, (and Andy (Kid Mohair) is a fab R n B d.j).The 'then he should know better' comment is debatable, as (like Beeks said) it filled the floor at Middleton in the R & B room. Maybe stepping out of the 'labelling' bubble and playing to the floor/the crowd could be respected/admired? I don't know...just a thought!

[Guest gordon russell]

Does the term r&b mean the stuff that would never have got any plays in any decent venue , cause basically its crap

and is it usually played by 2nd rate djs who either have no taste ,knowledge or access to decent soul music.

some up tempo r&b (very few l might add) tunes are very good (dewy black ).l recently went to an all nighter in rugby and at one point the most amount of mid tempo, shit kicking,Apalacian mountain induced good ole boy rubbish was being played....it didn't even sound remotely black or soulful,just thigh slapping line dance crap.....is that the stuff you mean tony

[John A]

why do blokes in their 50's need to do all-nighters?

I know what you mean..Have noticed these last few years(i'm still in my 30's)how old the scene's looking.After 25+ years its starting to put me off

[Guest dundeedavie]

i think it's obvious that "some" soul fans (the ones complaining on here) just don't get the R&B scene , but hey you're not meant to .

you stick to what you do and we'll do what we do....happily .

inho R&B should not be played at soul venues cos soul dj's more often than not f*ck it up anyway , leave it to those who "get it"

oh and btw mr modernsoulsucks you say it's not what you signed up for ....cos you signed up for paul anka et al instead .

and souljihad , you talk about mod and the scene in the same post as " house is great" i can't remember house being mod , though i admit i'm just li'l ole R&B man from scotland

[Guest]

some up tempo r&b (very few l might add) tunes are very good (dewy black ).l recently went to an all nighter in rugby and at one point the most amount of mid tempo, shit kicking,Apalacian mountain induced good ole boy rubbish was being played....it didn't even sound remotely black or soulful,just thigh slapping line dance crap.....is that the stuff you mean tony

slighty off topic - or is it?

an interesting fact: among those who 'line-dance', non have been circumcised.

you have to be a complete pr*ck to do that sort of thing

[Mark S]

This is getting a bit ageist I am a dinosaur I love oldies I dont mind dancing to lowest common denomiator N/S that I danced to thirty odd years ago It makes me happy

The scene can move on all it wants I dont care , as for new blood coming onto the scene dont give a f*** if the scene dies with me or not

No one has the right to dictate how the scene should be but the one thing we should do is enjoy it for what it is great music and great people rant over thank you

[Guest Soultown andy]

This started off with a question bout over 50s attending niters, which loads do and those who dont who cares,those that do obviously still prefer niters to soul nites no big deal really.Now we,ve got the offensive remarks bout r n b djs etc,im no big fan of r n b but there are an awful lot of people i know that are.Most venues im involved with have seperate r n b rooms which work well especialy at middleton,and to be honest the backbeat room is far more popular than a couple of venues that constantly have peeps bangin on about on here with regularly well over 100 travelling from all over the uk just to go into this room.As for the djs being second rate roger banks joe dutton hoss all have fabulos [and plenty of other r n b jocks] collections and could hold there own djin with most of the so called top spinners.As for kid mohair nice guy knows his stuff,always out and about supporting venues all over the uk unlike an awful lot of the members on here.Second rate djs hoss and roger banks,my arse .As for the starting question think it got the reaction paul was looking for .

[macca]

Funny how this thread has descended into a traditional northern vs R&B spat. I was looking at a playlist for the Twisted Wheel the other day. Way before my time, I was 11 when it closed. I must admit I'm far more inclined to listen to gritty blues orientated R&B than Spiral Staircase, which I heard at Wigan around 1977. At Notts Palais once, I think I even heard a version of God Only Knows. This was just as depressing as TEF must sound to Rod's ears.

Little Hank, Jimmy McCracklin, Slim Harpo, Phil Upchurch, Bobby Parker etc, etc fit more into the scheme of things, FOR ME, than white pop 4x4 Motown soundalike stompers so commonly heard at all-nighters back then. I think it's about taste, not about what's supposedly right & wrong musically, but then again what do I know, I listen to Roscoe Holcomb in the dark.

[Guest Scarborosoul]

As for Manchester starting it all. It was London Mods that started all night soul do's. The Manc copied us.

BOLLOX

John2 verse 6 old testement

" O Lord help me to keep my big gob shut till I know what the fook Im talking about" Amen

Rick

[Guest Soultown andy]

Thought that myself rick mancs following the cockneys,dont be fookin stupid .

[Guest]

Paul - you are a knob sometimes

I'm coming to throw things at you in Bradford - and you'd better make sure you bring me a nice "I haven't seen you in years" present

[Pauldonnelly]

Paul - you are a knob sometimes

I'm coming to throw things at you in Bradford - and you'd better make sure you bring me a nice "I haven't seen you in years" present

don;'t worry I'm washing it twice a day come Feb 1st...

[KevH]

This started off with a question bout over 50s attending niters, which loads do and those who dont who cares,those that do obviously still prefer niters to soul nites no big deal really.Now we,ve got the offensive remarks bout r n b djs etc,im no big fan of r n b but there are an awful lot of people i know that are.Most venues im involved with have seperate r n b rooms which work well especialy at middleton,and to be honest the backbeat room is far more popular than a couple of venues that constantly have peeps bangin on about on here with regularly well over 100 travelling from all over the uk just to go into this room.As for the djs being second rate roger banks joe dutton hoss all have fabulos [and plenty of other r n b jocks] collections and could hold there own djin with most of the so called top spinners.As for kid mohair nice guy knows his stuff,always out and about supporting venues all over the uk unlike an awful lot of the members on here.Second rate djs hoss and roger banks,my arse .As for the starting question think it got the reaction paul was looking for .

Know what you're saying Andy, about the RnB dj's and people travelling to Midd Backbeat,Kid Mohair being a nice guy etc.....but for me can't help gettin twitchy if i heard TEF played out ANYWHERE!.

Reminds me of sittin in my Gran's as a nipper,knowing she'd stacked up "Distant drums" next on the Dansette. .

[Cunnie]

I'm in my late 40's and still and always have leaned to the Mod..

Would have thought your avatar might have been a little clue Tony

As for the term Mod ain't it just an abbreviation of Modern so if a Mod is going to listen to RnB should it not be 2009 RnB & not something as old as their parents

Mods from Manc & the big Smoke - Who was the King of the Mods? Peter Stringfellow from Sheffield before he moved down South to make his millions. Remember the Mojo?

Back on topic.

Why do blokes in their 50's still go to nighters?

Same reason as blokes in their 50's go fishing & play golf.

To get away from her indoors for a few hours

[Robnewbury]

This started off with a question bout over 50s attending niters, which loads do and those who dont who cares,those that do obviously still prefer niters to soul nites no big deal really.Now we,ve got the offensive remarks bout r n b djs etc,im no big fan of r n b but there are an awful lot of people i know that are.Most venues im involved with have seperate r n b rooms which work well especialy at middleton,and to be honest the backbeat room is far more popular than a couple of venues that constantly have peeps bangin on about on here with regularly well over 100 travelling from all over the uk just to go into this room.As for the djs being second rate roger banks joe dutton hoss all have fabulos [and plenty of other r n b jocks] collections and could hold there own djin with most of the so called top spinners.As for kid mohair nice guy knows his stuff,always out and about supporting venues all over the uk unlike an awful lot of the members on here.Second rate djs hoss and roger banks,my arse .As for the starting question think it got the reaction paul was looking for .

Well said mate.Dont quite know how the original question degenerated into all this elitist b******t but leave all those know- it -alls on here with this:

MEN DO NOT QUIT PLAYING BECAUSE THEY GROW OLD

THEY GROW OLD BECAUSE THEY QUIT PLAYING

See you at the next Middleton

[Guest]

This started off with a question bout over 50s attending niters, which loads do and those who dont who cares,those that do obviously still prefer niters to soul nites no big deal really.Now we,ve got the offensive remarks bout r n b djs etc,im no big fan of r n b but there are an awful lot of people i know that are.Most venues im involved with have seperate r n b rooms which work well especialy at middleton,and to be honest the backbeat room is far more popular than a couple of venues that constantly have peeps bangin on about on here with regularly well over 100 travelling from all over the uk just to go into this room.As for the djs being second rate roger banks joe dutton hoss all have fabulos [and plenty of other r n b jocks] collections and could hold there own djin with most of the so called top spinners.As for kid mohair nice guy knows his stuff,always out and about supporting venues all over the uk unlike an awful lot of the members on here.Second rate djs hoss and roger banks,my arse .As for the starting question think it got the reaction paul was looking for .

Nice one Andy!

[Ezzie Brown]

I think I know my stuff musically too hence my complete amazement, bafflement, and finally anger. It's not really what I signed up to all those years ago. A travesty of the original ethos.

ROD

did you sign up to listen to all the white pop records played on the scene "all those years ago then ? " louis neef was played on the belgian popcorn scene in the early 70s along with many fab black artist uptempo usa recorded sounds that this scene you signed up for has still largely not discovered or "found" in the 80s eg ernie washington.....just do your thing in the scene let others do theres ,dont narrow it down to YOUR interpretation........ezzie , started at the torch, nearly 55...........love niters still. ps modern does suck, so i dont listen to it

Edited January 10, 2009 by ezzie brown

[redcoupe]

why do blokes in their 50's need to do all-nighters?

because its part of there shift pattern.. or.....jumpin joans answer works for me...

[Guest]

don;'t worry I'm washing it twice a day come Feb 1st...

isn't that rather dangerous at your age

you might dislocate your wrist

[Guest bazrico]

This started off with a question bout over 50s attending niters, which loads do and those who dont who cares,those that do obviously still prefer niters to soul nites no big deal really.Now we,ve got the offensive remarks bout r n b djs etc,im no big fan of r n b but there are an awful lot of people i know that are.Most venues im involved with have seperate r n b rooms which work well especialy at middleton,and to be honest the backbeat room is far more popular than a couple of venues that constantly have peeps bangin on about on here with regularly well over 100 travelling from all over the uk just to go into this room.As for the djs being second rate roger banks joe dutton hoss all have fabulos [and plenty of other r n b jocks] collections and could hold there own djin with most of the so called top spinners.As for kid mohair nice guy knows his stuff,always out and about supporting venues all over the uk unlike an awful lot of the members on here.Second rate djs hoss and roger banks,my arse .As for the starting question think it got the reaction paul was looking for .

well said Andy

Take out the late 40ts and early 50ts punters, venues would be empty including weekenders

[redcoupe]

Does the term r&b mean the stuff that would never have got any plays in any decent venue , cause basically its crap

and is it usually played by 2nd rate djs who either have no taste ,knowledge or access to decent soul music.

most of the big venues have a seperate rand b room for r&b lovers played by r& b specialst djs all the dos ive been to its in the price and you go in if you want to whats your problem as for taste knowledgeetc id pit the likes of joe dutton and steve hoss against anybody youd like to mention not just r& b any northern .steve hoss done a brilliant spot at wilton last night and would have been great at any do...if you dont like someat dont listen to it but leave the ones that do to there likes of music alone....as for roger banks he is a brilliant all rounder and must be in the top 5 dj in the country.you cant be serious in your statements or your a wind up merchant it must be the latter as the fist bit is shite.....

[Guest Black Gold of the Sun]

To chase tasty birds in their 30s and 40s... or accompany their own lovely wives of course. And long may they continue.

Doh ! Sussed

[Modernsoulsucks]

i think it's obvious that "some" soul fans (the ones complaining on here) just don't get the R&B scene , but hey you're not meant to .

you stick to what you do and we'll do what we do....happily .

inho R&B should not be played at soul venues cos soul dj's more often than not f*ck it up anyway , leave it to those who "get it"

oh and btw mr modernsoulsucks you say it's not what you signed up for ....cos you signed up for paul anka et al instead .

and souljihad , you talk about mod and the scene in the same post as " house is great" i can't remember house being mod , though i admit i'm just li'l ole R&B man from scotland

Actually Davie I didn't. Pretty sure that was an early Wigan 45 from mid 70's. I got into soul in '68 via Radio Caroline playing odd Motown track and soon after into ska/ old Motown as a skinhead where I discovered the rarer end of the club scene in '69. It wasn't "Northern Soul" but it was the beginnings with the Tams,Tami Lynn,Elgins, Earl Van Dyke etc. I was well into the more obscure side [at the time stuff like Ric-Tic] of the music by the time Mr. Godin coined the phrase.

Here is not the place to discuss the influence of the earlier Mod scene on the development of NS but whatever R&B influence there had been IMO didn't play any part in those early years from '69. It was a seperate genre and I can think of very few 45s you'd hear in a club [Little Sonny "Wade.." "Call on me" and couple of other Bobby Bland that were toward his more soul sounding side].

I guess we went for what I've seen as described as a more "Uptown" sound rather than the gritty Southern [in a lot of cases] R&B sound. Throughout those early years at the Junction, Torch, Mecca and beginning of Wigan I think that formulae was followed. Even the first influx of 70's sounds like Carstairs had that feel.

Im guessing by alluding to Paul Anka [and you've got me there as I like and have it] you're pointing out the double standard of a traditionalist like myself drawing attention to TEF [and other what I'd term r'n'r/pop] getting plays and the absolute bobbins that got spun under the NS banner from disco at the Mecca to pop shite at Wigan but I and many others were just as vocal then in complaining about the dilution of the original ethos.

That original sound IMO has formed the backbone of the NS scene for 40 years and has constantly been the nucleus around which that scene has re-invented itself in the face of others trying to impose their musical tastes and take it in another direction. From Stafford in the 80's to Burnley now there's always the few who get back to basics.

I didn't mean to cause this furore but as somebody else mentioned it was things like TEF on the radio which I compared to first hearing Motown and made me think there was a whole lot more music out there. Reading the thread I was gobsmacked.

I am happy to accept there is a flourishing R&B scene which has nothing to do with the NS/rare soul scene and maybe I shoulda not passed comment on something that I don't partake in but I am at a loss to understand why some R&B fans are jumping to the defence when I would have thought "Joe 90" at wigan and TEF at Middleton is exactly the same rather sad adulteration of something we care passionately about.

Im sure Kid Mohair knows what he's doing but at 48 he wasn't around in those first years

and wouldn't have the same attachment to those values.

I noticed Joe did say it wasn't his personal cuppa tea but as I believe he runs the R&B room I'd be interested to hear what he had to say.

ROD

[Guest Scarborosoul]

I myself am a complete NSfan and not really into R & B, but i must say that some of the stuff i have heard at middleton and other places have been fookin fantastic bits of dance music and had me up on the floor no problems. The first time I personally heard a real R & B room in operation was the back room at a twisted wheel all-nighter years ago. The only dj I can remember playing in that room was Brian Rea. Now I know Brians a mainly oldies dj but I remember it so well. Even now I can still be suprised by the quality of the sounds tho i dont know what they are. Last Middleton I went to someone played a sound by ZZ Hill I had never heard it before but it was superb uptempo music. It was also in an R & B room I first heard of J Williams and the Tick Tocks. These sounds may have been played out somewhere else but for me they were a "first time" so if there is an R & B room at a nighter just give it a go you may be very suprised at what you hear.

Rick

[Guest dundeedavie]

Actually Davie I didn't. Pretty sure that was an early Wigan 45 from mid 70's. I got into soul in '68 via Radio Caroline playing odd Motown track and soon after into ska/ old Motown as a skinhead where I discovered the rarer end of the club scene in '69. It wasn't "Northern Soul" but it was the beginnings with the Tams,Tami Lynn,Elgins, Earl Van Dyke etc. I was well into the more obscure side [at the time stuff like Ric-Tic] of the music by the time Mr. Godin coined the phrase.

Here is not the place to discuss the influence of the earlier Mod scene on the development of NS but whatever R&B influence there had been IMO didn't play any part in those early years from '69. It was a seperate genre and I can think of very few 45s you'd hear in a club [Little Sonny "Wade.." "Call on me" and couple of other Bobby Bland that were toward his more soul sounding side].

I guess we went for what I've seen as described as a more "Uptown" sound rather than the gritty Southern [in a lot of cases] R&B sound. Throughout those early years at the Junction, Torch, Mecca and beginning of Wigan I think that formulae was followed. Even the first influx of 70's sounds like Carstairs had that feel.

Im guessing by alluding to Paul Anka [and you've got me there as I like and have it] you're pointing out the double standard of a traditionalist like myself drawing attention to TEF [and other what I'd term r'n'r/pop] getting plays and the absolute bobbins that got spun under the NS banner from disco at the Mecca to pop shite at Wigan but I and many others were just as vocal then in complaining about the dilution of the original ethos.

That original sound IMO has formed the backbone of the NS scene for 40 years and has constantly been the nucleus around which that scene has re-invented itself in the face of others trying to impose their musical tastes and take it in another direction. From Stafford in the 80's to Burnley now there's always the few who get back to basics.

I didn't mean to cause this furore but as somebody else mentioned it was things like TEF on the radio which I compared to first hearing Motown and made me think there was a whole lot more music out there. Reading the thread I was gobsmacked.

I am happy to accept there is a flourishing R&B scene which has nothing to do with the NS/rare soul scene and maybe I shoulda not passed comment on something that I don't partake in but I am at a loss to understand why some R&B fans are jumping to the defence when I would have thought "Joe 90" at wigan and TEF at Middleton is exactly the same rather sad adulteration of something we care passionately about.

Im sure Kid Mohair knows what he's doing but at 48 he wasn't around in those first years

and wouldn't have the same attachment to those values.

I noticed Joe did say it wasn't his personal cuppa tea but as I believe he runs the R&B room I'd be interested to hear what he had to say.

ROD

maybe i jumped a little cos i don't think any scene should discriminate based on the artist singing ..if the record is good enough then it deserves to be played regardless of anything else ...and btw i don't even know the TEF record

[Guest Nick Harrison]

F**king Hell. No wonder I can't be arsed going anywhere and sitting through shit like that..........ROD

Isolation kept in moderation is always "acceptable".

[Guest Soultown andy]

Bit of a crazy thread this now and a bit of a crazy scene wether you are over 50 and still out and about or cant be arsed,but it really is each to there own which is why we have 3 very different rooms at middleton. Impossible to please everyone these days especialy the over 50s .

[pikeys dog]

I noticed Joe did say it wasn't his personal cuppa tea but as I believe he runs the R&B room I'd be interested to hear what he had to say.

ROD

Right then, been asked for my thoughts on TEFGATE and here they are...

Would I ever play the record?

No.

Do I personally like the record?

No, it's a bit too 'dreary 50s' for my taste.

Did anyone complain on the night?

Not at all.

Is everyone getting their shreddies in a twist over one record that was played in ten hours worth of records?

Undoubtedly.

Should he be "sacked"?

Not at all.

Shoud Andy Have Played the record?

Yes - provided he was confident in his choice of plays why shouldn't he?

Have I got better things to do with my life than examine the minutiae of every DJs playlist?

Hell Yes.

Would the stuffed shirts who are moaning about this have been pissing themselves at the game of musical statues we played at around 7am?

No, most of them would have been tucked up in' feather dreaming of serious stuff like mid sixties Detroit Matrix number sequences.

Seriously....

I, like quite a few others involved with the R&B scene, hate the fact that people dismiss it as all Rock n' Roll or Country and Western, and unfortunately records like this re-inforce the stereotype.

However, this was one record - not an entire spot, and as stated it didn't empty the floor, so somebody other than Andy (ie the dancers) must have thought it worthy of play.

A good DJ will to a large extent follow the floor - if a record of that ilk fails, then it will be shelved, and something else put in its place - but if it's accepted then fair enough.

Let's get this in perspective - the Back Beat room is a seperate entity from the "Main Room".

This record wasn't thrust upon an unreceptive 'Northern' crowd - it wasn't dropped into a set of big figure classics/oldies.

No one was harmed in the playing of this record - nobody spontaneously combusted at the thought of a TEF record being spun - no-one poked sharpened sticks in their ears to stop the terrible sound entering their cerebral cortex.

Upstairs at some point during the night, there would have IMO been records played that are hammered to death by the same handful of DJs, with little thought to the dancefloor, but more thought to the number of Browny points gained during a cock-waving contest.

Fair play to Andy for having the balls to plough his own furrow.

Right, bored with this topic now.

Who wants to hear my new Jim Reeves cover-up?

[Billywhizz]

Bit of a crazy thread this now and a bit of a crazy scene wether you are over 50 and still out and about or cant be arsed,but it really is each to there own which is why we have 3 very different rooms at middleton. Impossible to please everyone these days especialy the over 50s .

never give up on a good thing,longs as it keeps u happy cheers Geogre benson,ps happy new year my flower.