boba Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Hi. I recently picked up these two acetates from a former motown collector. One is eddie holland "day dreamer". The other is an unknown artist with a track called "darling". It is supposedly the Originals but the artist is not identified on the record. Was this ever finally released on some motown CD and if so, or through some other knowledge, can anyone confirm the identity of the artist? I searched here for the other track day dreamer, and found some discussion about how Ady Croasdell owns a copy of the acetate. Is this a well known track? Are there any other known copies of this in existence? Thanks for any info. Here are scans...
Russ Vickers Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Hi. I recently picked up these two acetates from a former motown collector. One is eddie holland "day dreamer". The other is an unknown artist with a track called "darling". It is supposedly the Originals but the artist is not identified on the record. Was this ever finally released on some motown CD and if so, or through some other knowledge, can anyone confirm the identity of the artist? I searched here for the other track day dreamer, and found some discussion about how Ady Croasdell owns a copy of the acetate. Is this a well known track? Are there any other known copies of this in existence? Thanks for any info. Here are scans... Not sure if Ady still owns the Eddie Holland acetate Bob, was a huge record at the 100 Club some years ago, dont have any other info i'm afraid, but its a fantastic piece of soul IMO & if you were considering moving the acetate on PM me. I'm sure Ady will pass on any info he has on this. HNY Russ
Garethx Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 (edited) Hi Bob Interesting acetates. I think Ady still has a copy of "Daydreamer". It was found in a London record shop in the early 90s, and they had two acetates featuring the track: both 10" multi-track publishers discs featuring more than one artist as opposed to the seven inch you have. I think the copy Ady has features Daydreamer as track one. I put a deposit on the other disc (they wanted £450 for it), which featured Daydreamer as track four, side one, but never picked it up and the shop closed its doors shortly afterwards: I wonder who ended up with that copy? I think Rob Thomas has another acetate and Pete Lowrie also owned a copy at one time, so there are others around. For what it's worth it's my favourite unreleased Motown track, a real beauty which shows what an under-recorded artist Eddie Holland was: the song's tremendous and his vocal's very soulful indeed. Ady re-counted the tale of finding this amid a great haul of one-off publishers discs in the sleevenotes to the Kent CD Gettin' To Me (the eponymous Ben E. King monster was also in the catch) so I'm sure he can tell us more: it was a kind of once-in-a-lifetime find and I'm sure members who are unfamiliar with the story would be very interested by it. Edited January 4, 2009 by garethx
boba Posted January 5, 2009 Author Posted January 5, 2009 Hi Bob Interesting acetates. I think Ady still has a copy of "Daydreamer". It was found in a London record shop in the early 90s, and they had two acetates featuring the track: both 10" multi-track publishers discs featuring more than one artist as opposed to the seven inch you have. I think the copy Ady has features Daydreamer as track one. I put a deposit on the other disc (they wanted £450 for it), which featured Daydreamer as track four, side one, but never picked it up and the shop closed its doors shortly afterwards: I wonder who ended up with that copy? I think Rob Thomas has another acetate and Pete Lowrie also owned a copy at one time, so there are others around. For what it's worth it's my favourite unreleased Motown track, a real beauty which shows what an under-recorded artist Eddie Holland was: the song's tremendous and his vocal's very soulful indeed. Ady re-counted the tale of finding this amid a great haul of one-off publishers discs in the sleevenotes to the Kent CD Gettin' To Me (the eponymous Ben E. King monster was also in the catch) so I'm sure he can tell us more: it was a kind of once-in-a-lifetime find and I'm sure members who are unfamiliar with the story would be very interested by it. thanks so much for the info. do you are saying that there are definitely 4 copies? Do you know if the other two are 7" acetates or 10" acetates? anyone have any ideas on the other record?
Pete S Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 I'm pretty certain I posted up a full length recording of Daydreamer a couple of years back - if I didn't, I will if anyone wants to hear it again
Ady Croasdell Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 As Gareth says both the 10" acetates came from the Hanway St Carlin/Jobete publishers deal. I'm not sure about the legitimacy of others unless a totally trustworthy source can verify they were made in the 60s not 80s or 90s when a few dodgy dealers were about.
Pete S Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 I think the ones in Boba's scans are 100% real, I've had several Motown acetates that looked like this.
Ady Croasdell Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 I think the ones in Boba's scans are 100% real, I've had several Motown acetates that looked like this. I agree but I'm not sure what the others look like.
Marc Forrest Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 ...oh yes, and one 10" copy over here in Berlin. fabulous tune indeed which was big at the Hip City four years ago already.
Marc Forrest Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 Interesting acetates. I think Ady still has a copy of "Daydreamer". It was found in a London record shop in the early 90s, and they had two acetates featuring the track: both 10" multi-track publishers discs featuring more than one artist as opposed to the seven inch you have. I think the copy Ady has features Daydreamer as track one.... As does mine, out of interest what are the other tracks ?
boba Posted June 4, 2009 Author Posted June 4, 2009 As does mine, out of interest what are the other tracks ? for what it's worth, the other acetate ended up being an unreleased spinners track, it sounded like the spinners and andy rix confirmed it for me. it was too early to be the originals anyways.
Marc Forrest Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 for what it's worth, the other acetate ended up being an unreleased spinners track, it sounded like the spinners and andy rix confirmed it for me. it was too early to be the originals anyways. cheers Boba, but I (also) wanted to know what was on those other 10" acetates that were found in London
Garethx Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 cheers Boba, but I (also) wanted to know what was on those other 10" acetates that were found in London That would be very interesting. I played through a few seconds of each of the tracks once and it was a long time ago. I'd love to know if the tracks on your copy are the same as those on Ady's. As I mentioned earlier the running order at least was different on the other copy: maybe the other tracks were different too. Is yours double sided Marc?
Ady Croasdell Posted June 4, 2009 Posted June 4, 2009 Both 10" that came from Hanway street were the same 4 tracks in opposite running orders. Andy Rix might remember the others, he certainly worked out who they were, we may have a dub at work I'll look it up
Guest Krissii Posted June 5, 2009 Posted June 5, 2009 id definitely love a clip of this... will there still be tapes at motown for it or are these the only survivors now?
Andy Rix Posted June 5, 2009 Posted June 5, 2009 Both 10" that came from Hanway street were the same 4 tracks in opposite running orders. Andy Rix might remember the others, he certainly worked out who they were, we may have a dub at work I'll look it up I remember seeing the acetates in the shop. Ady I think you sold one that Rob ended up with that then lived with me for a few years. I can't remember where it went !! The other tracks are, or are believed to be based on aural opinion Mike & Modifiers - Tell all your friends .. a song also recorded by Barret Strong Kim Weston - Perfect love -- with a male back-up believed to be Mickey Stevenson Herman Griffin - You never met a guy All were recorded in October 1962 Andy
Garethx Posted June 5, 2009 Posted June 5, 2009 I remember seeing the acetates in the shop. Ady I think you sold one that Rob ended up with that then lived with me for a few years. I can't remember where it went !! The other tracks are, or are believed to be based on aural opinion Mike & Modifiers - Tell all your friends .. a song also recorded by Barret Strong Kim Weston - Perfect love -- with a male back-up believed to be Mickey Stevenson Herman Griffin - You never met a guy All were recorded in October 1962 Andy Tremendous. Thanks Andy. Wonder who has it now?
Marc Forrest Posted June 5, 2009 Posted June 5, 2009 Tremendous. Thanks Andy. Wonder who has it now? maybe me. although I bought mine via the states I do know the guy I bought it from does also buy stuff from UK collectoirs. So you never know... The tracks on my 10 " acetate that I was able to I identify over the years are Eddie Holland "Daydreamer", Valadiers ..not Mike & The Modifiers..."Tell All Your Friends" (stroming early Motown group dancer...I simply love this!) Kim Weston (?) "Perfect Love" and a fourth tune by someone I identified as being possibly Herman Griffin but I could well be wrong on this one... Marc
Andy Rix Posted June 5, 2009 Posted June 5, 2009 maybe me. although I bought mine via the states I do know the guy I bought it from does also buy stuff from UK collectoirs. So you never know... The tracks on my 10 " acetate that I was able to I identify over the years are Eddie Holland "Daydreamer", Valadiers ..not Mike & The Modifiers..."Tell All Your Friends" (stroming early Motown group dancer...I simply love this!) Kim Weston (?) "Perfect Love" and a fourth tune by someone I identified as being possibly Herman Griffin but I could well be wrong on this one... Marc You could easily be right about the Valadiers .. they are very similar in style I'll do some proper research and try to clarify Andy
Andy Rix Posted June 6, 2009 Posted June 6, 2009 You could easily be right about the Valadiers .. they are very similar in style I'll do some proper research and try to clarify Andy Well we were both wrong ! 'Tell all your friends' is actually Freddie Gorman .. no surprise really considering he co-wrote it .. 'You never met a guy' probably isn't Herman Griffin. I based my view on who was signed at the time and who it was likely to be. Unless there were 2 Jobete songs at the same time with the same title it would seem this one came out of New York and was written by George Kerr & Sidney Barnes. The only problem here is that the recording pre-dates the opening of the NY office. Still we can't discount it. Also of interest the first version of 'Day dreamer' was by Lamont Dozier ... Eddie dubbed his vocal on the track and Lamont was erased. Marc - are you able to put a scan up ? I don't think I scanned ther copy I had before it got sold which was a bit silly Andy
Robnewbury Posted June 6, 2009 Posted June 6, 2009 thanks so much for the info. do you are saying that there are definitely 4 copies? Do you know if the other two are 7" acetates or 10" acetates? anyone have any ideas on the other record? For what its worth I picked up an acetate from Manship about 6 months ago: EDDIE HOLLAND-ITS TOO LATE TO CRY Cheers ROB
Simon T Posted June 6, 2009 Posted June 6, 2009 Marc - are you able to put a scan up ? I don't think I scanned the copy I had before it got sold which was a bit silly Andy
Simon T Posted June 6, 2009 Posted June 6, 2009 Marc - are you able to put a scan up ? I don't think I scanned the copy I had before it got sold which was a bit silly Andy
Marc Forrest Posted June 7, 2009 Posted June 7, 2009 Well we were both wrong ! 'Tell all your friends' is actually Freddie Gorman .. no surprise really considering he co-wrote it .. Andy I had my information back in the day from the Richie Hardin site and said tune was down there to be known acetate only ... by the Valadiers. In fact it does sound more like a group in general and the Valadiers in special rather than a solo recording by for example Freddie Gorman accompanied with a group backing to my ears. So I trend to believe its the valadiers. Where do you have the FG piece of information from ? Maybe there does exist another recording by Freddie Gorman, wouldn`t be the first time there would be diferent versions by different artists (especially with Motown back in the day). Marc
Marc Forrest Posted June 7, 2009 Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) so tell me Hippopatamus, when and what where you doing in my reocrd rooom LOL ? Mine looks slightly different though, more like the usual Jobete acetates with red typing etc.. Edited June 7, 2009 by Marc Forrest
Marc Forrest Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) Except for a Madness open air concert on friday night there wasn`t much to do this weekend, so I had time to pull my acetate out and have another look on my info sheet... "Tell All Your Freinds" recorded 09/61 by the Valadiers "Day Dreamer" recorded 07/62 by Eddie Holland "Perfect Love" Kim Weston 1962 Its not Herman Griffin but Henry Lumpkin. Marc Edited June 8, 2009 by Marc Forrest
Benji Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) "Tell All Your Freinds" recorded 09/61 by the Valadiers "Day Dreamer" recorded 07/62 by Eddie Holland Both tracks on the same acetate yet there were 10 months between the actual recordings, looks a bit odd to me? I would have expected any tracks on these kind of Motown acetates to haven been recorded around the same time, e.g. within a few weeks? Edited June 8, 2009 by Benji
Marc Forrest Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) Both tracks on the same acetate yet there were 10 months between the actual recordings, looks a bit odd to me? I would have expected any tracks on these kind of Motown acetates to haven been recorded around the same time, e.g. within a few weeks? Tend to agree with you but you never really know what the reason for these four track Jobete acetates were in comparison to the usual one track 7" acetates they did. It may have been to put together the current work of one writer, one composer, a certain backing band line up etc. Who knows. I had and have seen several of them four track acetates. Think I still have another Jobete 10" job from NYC which for example looks again totally different to the usual Jobete acetate look and feel...but then again it is a very early recording and not originating from Detroit but from NYC. Marc Edited June 8, 2009 by Marc Forrest
Garethx Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 The one in the shop in Hanway Street looked identical to the scan above, as far as my memory of it allows. Didn't have the Jobete logo as per some of the Motown acetates one sees: perhaps it was too early in the company's history for this. Again I suspect there are no hard and fast rules about any of these discs which were cut 'off the cuff' as it were. I recall the 10" sleeve having a New Jersey address printed on it, but presumably this was the address of the manufacturing plant or the company which made the blank acetates. Alternatively it could merely have been a sleeve which belonged to a different disc altogether. Interesting to hear form Andy Rix that "Day Dreamer" had originally been cut by Lamont Dozier. I wonder if any recording of that survives? The thing which makes the Eddie Holland version for me is his tremendous singing (as well as it being a good song, of course). The vocal is decidedly soulful at a time when soul singing as an art form was finding its feet, and shows both what a wonderful and under-recorded vocal talent Eddie was and what a star he could potentially have been had he chosen to go down the performing route.
Ady Croasdell Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 Yeah the acetate was for publishers so would have been put together with a view to selling songs to the UK so 10 months difference would not have mattered. It's the same as the two from Carlin/Hanway St. I sold mine to that accountant who got rumbled. i bet yours is one of those two from some cicuitous route.
Marc Forrest Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) Yeah the acetate was for publishers so would have been put together with a view to selling songs to the UK so 10 months difference would not have mattered. It's the same as the two from Carlin/Hanway St. I sold mine to that accountant who got rumbled. i bet yours is one of those two from some cicuitous route. Yes Ady, that could very well be although mine has the details on the label done in red ink. As I said my source was buying stuff also from UK collectors and I bought if off him some eight to possibly nine years ago. Marc Edited June 8, 2009 by Marc Forrest
Andy Rix Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 Except for a Madness open air concert on friday night there wasn`t much to do this weekend, so I had time to pull my acetate out and have another look on my info sheet... "Tell All Your Freinds" recorded 09/61 by the Valadiers "Day Dreamer" recorded 07/62 by Eddie Holland "Perfect Love" Kim Weston 1962 Its not Herman Griffin but Henry Lumpkin. Marc thanks Marc That's fascinating. My info about the Freddie Gorman attribution came from the session logs .. apparently no mention of a recording by the Valadiers but that doesn't really mean anything. Do you recall the source of your info ? I think the 10" I had came from Ady to Steve Chadwick to Rob .. I seem to think it maybe went to Lew Stanley but it was a few years ago. What's on your NYC acetate ? Cheers Andy
Marc Forrest Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 thanks Marc That's fascinating. My info about the Freddie Gorman attribution came from the session logs .. apparently no mention of a recording by the Valadiers but that doesn't really mean anything. Do you recall the source of your info ? I think the 10" I had came from Ady to Steve Chadwick to Rob .. I seem to think it maybe went to Lew Stanley but it was a few years ago. What's on your NYC acetate ? Cheers Andy The info I was putting together by using "Off The Record" and the good old Richie Hardin site. And yes, bingo, I got the acetate via Lew. The NYC Jobete office 10" does feature only "One In A Million" by a male group I so far sadly was not able to identify. Marc
Kev Moore Posted June 8, 2009 Posted June 8, 2009 I'm pretty certain I posted up a full length recording of Daydreamer a couple of years back - if I didn't, I will if anyone wants to hear it again I'd like to hear it Pete. if you can manage to post it again. Regards Kev
Ezzie Brown Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) can i go a bit off topic but ask u learned bunch if you have any info on...........a 1 sided ten inch jobete acetate ..red type lettering of title " I PRAYED FOR A BOY LIKE YOU " ...........nothing else exc . jobete typed on label ..................solo girl vocal with girl harmonies in background.........any info please ,thanks ezzie ......also would any early motown acetates be on bell sound ?????????? Edited June 9, 2009 by ezzie brown
Marc Forrest Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 also would any early motown acetates be on bell sound ?????????? can`t say I have ever seen one but of course if any artist bought the right to record a jobete tune why shouldn`t there exist an acetate of on for example Bell ? The typical jobete acetates (7" or 10") though were all on plain white labels with identification of tune and company (Jobete).
Andy Rix Posted June 9, 2009 Posted June 9, 2009 can i go a bit off topic but ask u learned bunch if you have any info on...........a 1 sided ten inch jobete acetate ..red type lettering of title " I PRAYED FOR A BOY LIKE YOU " ...........nothing else exc . jobete typed on label ..................solo girl vocal with girl harmonies in background.........any info please ,thanks ezzie ......also would any early motown acetates be on bell sound ?????????? Brenda Holloway recorded this at Motown but would need to hear it to confirm if it's her. A version was issued by Patty Michaels on Epic .. I think it was her, I have a copy on the shelf so need to 'find' it Andy
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