Barry Posted December 23, 2008 Posted December 23, 2008 Off at a tangient here but to quote but a few examples of Modern tracks where, to me, the 7" original edit is better than the, in most cases, poorly extended 12" versions. I say 'poorly extended' as indie 12" extended versions tend to simply straight cut edit the track [repeat the previous 8 bars], they don't tend to do a Shep Pettibone on tracks. Yet strangely the 12"s tend to command a premium, maybe due to their 'scarcity' and the recent interest from the Disco fellows. Alfie Davidson, King Tutt, Curtis to name a few of the more popular all are more complete edit-wise in their original 7" form. This view doesn't apply, to me that is, regarding every 12" version - Eddie Holman, Greg Perry, Skip Mahoney for eg. all work better in their longer edited formats (looking at that last sentence, two of them were Salsoul tracks, a label with the money to pay for quality, re-worked by savvy engineers, Thom Moulton etc but you get me drift.) Edits can make or ruin a track - look at that awful 'The Bottle (drunken mix) edit for example. The only reason I love 12"'s is for the response you get over a system from them, but I will forever be happy with my KT 7" (even with it's poor response) over the rather annoying extended version. Am I rattling again?
Prophonics 2029 Posted December 23, 2008 Posted December 23, 2008 The Bottle drunken mix isn't really different except for the start but green on the 12"looks great.
Barry Posted December 23, 2008 Posted December 23, 2008 The Bottle drunken mix isn't really different except for the start but green on the 12"looks great. If you listen it has the worst cut in the edit I've ever heard - a close second comes Patrice Rushen's - 'Haven't You Heard' 7" edit - unbelievably bad. For me the plain white demo is the most desirable and appealing of the GSH releases. The best looking coloured vinyl, seeing as you've took me there, is Brainstorm's - 'LIRMG', the deep red/orange vinyl plays of the orange Tabu label so well. 'Coloured vinyl and Soul'? Mmmmmm - don't worry I won't open a thread.
Prophonics 2029 Posted December 23, 2008 Posted December 23, 2008 Red an white Motown demo's and the Okeh purple ones. LIRMG is that a 12 or 7 I only have the LP.
Steve G Posted December 23, 2008 Posted December 23, 2008 I can confirm for what it is worth that Tutt was Jimmy Bo Horne's brother.
Prophonics 2029 Posted December 23, 2008 Posted December 23, 2008 (edited) Tutty Bo Horne reminds me of Carry On Screaming Rahba Titty. Edited December 23, 2008 by Prophonics 2029
Prophonics 2029 Posted December 23, 2008 Posted December 23, 2008 (edited) edited Edited December 23, 2008 by Prophonics 2029
Barry Posted December 23, 2008 Posted December 23, 2008 I can confirm for what it is worth that Tutt was Jimmy Bo Horne's brother. Mate, I'm made up with that addition - where did you get it from? It's the first time I've had some confirmation on that old Blackbeat tit-bit.
Steve G Posted December 23, 2008 Posted December 23, 2008 Mate, I'm made up with that addition - where did you get it from? It's the first time I've had some confirmation on that old Blackbeat tit-bit. Well that's probably because I wrote it in Blackbeat . The info came from John Anderson who told me. Steve
CAMBRIDGE SOUL Posted December 23, 2008 Posted December 23, 2008 Just to recap, your are selling a 2nd issue or a boot, with a shiny label like the first issue but not like the first issue with the matt label of the scan you posted up with some bodys name in the dead wax, with a matrix number on both sides like the original has but your other copy hasn't, that may or may not match the original, that you will sell but show to JM for listing as a second issue, where you have seen half of some paper work that sates the company may have imported them to Italy to be crushed to a pulp but you are willing to take a trip to see if they are still for sale. Not very clear cut at all. If you are too busy to get the details of the matrix don't worry It all sounds a bit fishy to me so don't bother to bring the 45 for my benefit to the 100 I have no interest in 2nds or boots, I have better things to spend my dosh on and not for 80 smackers. cheers..Good luck with your find. it could only be put like that from you prophonics.... .... i notice you have no time for 2nds or boots from your posts on here
CAMBRIDGE SOUL Posted December 23, 2008 Posted December 23, 2008 Off at a tangient here but to quote but a few examples of Modern tracks where, to me, the 7" original edit is better than the, in most cases, poorly extended 12" versions. I say 'poorly extended' as indie 12" extended versions tend to simply straight cut edit the track [repeat the previous 8 bars], they don't tend to do a Shep Pettibone on tracks. Yet strangely the 12"s tend to command a premium, maybe due to their 'scarcity' and the recent interest from the Disco fellows. Alfie Davidson, King Tutt, Curtis to name a few of the more popular all are more complete edit-wise in their original 7" form. This view doesn't apply, to me that is, regarding every 12" version - Eddie Holman, Greg Perry, Skip Mahoney for eg. all work better in their longer edited formats (looking at that last sentence, two of them were Salsoul tracks, a label with the money to pay for quality, re-worked by savvy engineers, Thom Moulton etc but you get me drift.) Edits can make or ruin a track - look at that awful 'The Bottle (drunken mix) edit for example. The only reason I love 12"'s is for the response you get over a system from them, but I will forever be happy with my KT 7" (even with it's poor response) over the rather annoying extended version. Am I rattling again? what do you think of the ESP 12...... i find the break a bit long
Godzilla Posted December 23, 2008 Posted December 23, 2008 The only way you could do what you describe above is if you had the original "mother stampers" that the original 45 was made from. If you have that AND you're able to press it at the factory where the originals were made AND they let you bring your own plastic mixture that you've made from old melted 45s... then you will get the exact same audio reproduction and run-out etchings. Perhaps that is what has happened with the King Tutt 45 you've got? I don't know, I just think it's fascinating and would like to know how to distinguish between an original and the counterfeit. If you don't have the original "mother stampers" then you will not be able to make an exact counterfeit of a record. You might get the run-out groove etchings and run-in/run-out widths correct, but the the volume and wave form of the audio WILL differ between the original and the countereit no matter how much work you put into it. Properly mastering and cutting a lacquer/stamper for vinyl production is a dying art (and has been for about 25 years). Hang about. Then you would be using recycled vinyl. I was always lead to believe that the sound quality was inferior. I understand that's why some original copies of records are noisy - because they used recycled vinyl in the first place. Same with loads of Jamaican stuff. KT is not a particularly noisy recording to my recollection
TOAD Posted December 23, 2008 Posted December 23, 2008 JAMAICAN 45S SUFFER FROM BAD MASTERING ETC NOT BECAUSE OF RECYCLYED VINYL
Godzilla Posted December 23, 2008 Posted December 23, 2008 JAMAICAN 45S SUFFER FROM BAD MASTERING ETC NOT BECAUSE OF RECYCLYED VINYL I think you'll find that from the 70s onwards they were using a considerable amount. Ask a Dancehall collector for example. As for mastering, I know they used worn stampers and ancient pressing equipment, but I actually like the sound of lots of Jamaican mastered records. Horses for courses though I suppose
Sebastian Posted December 24, 2008 Posted December 24, 2008 (edited) Hang about. Then you would be using recycled vinyl. I was always lead to believe that the sound quality was inferior. I understand that's why some original copies of records are noisy - because they used recycled vinyl in the first place. You are ofcourse right. Using recycled vinyl results in bad sounding records. I wrote the "AND they let you bring your own plastic mixture that you've made from old melted 45s... " with my rongue placed firmly in cheek because it's so EXTREMELY unlikely that a pressing plant would let you bring your own plastic when you want to press a record. Edited December 24, 2008 by Sebastian
CAMBRIDGE SOUL Posted December 24, 2008 Posted December 24, 2008 I wrote the "AND they let you bring your own plastic mixture that you've made from old melted 45s... " with my rongue placed firmly in cheek because it's so EXTREMELY unlikely that a pressing plant would let you bring your own plastic when you want to press a record. Mmmmm, if your making a counterfeit I'd think the guy that owns the pressing plant would be in on the deal.... happy christmas and a wonderful new year to you all
Barry Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 what do you think of the ESP 12...... i find the break a bit long It's a subjective thing yes, you're prob right in that instance.
CAMBRIDGE SOUL Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=220349850339 it's on ebay if you want one
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