Pete Eccles Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Your as mad as Beeks is.. This is the funniest post on the funniest thread for ages Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Cunnie Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Says the guy who quotes The Ministry of Sound...quite possibly the biggest dance club and commercial dance enterprise in the UK as part of an Underground scene Might be before your times Beeks but ever heard of Wigan Casino? Seem to remember it was the biggest dance club in the UK but also part of an underground scene Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Cunnie Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Citing two tracks by Drizabone as Northern doesn't help either. They're not. ROD Played by Northern DJ's in Northern venues to floors full of Northern punters - what are they then??? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Might be before your times Beeks but ever heard of Wigan Casino? Seem to remember it was the biggest dance club in the UK but also part of an underground scene You're absolutely right Cunnie...it was...but Ministry opened its Doors in 1991...by then the superclubs of House were already more than established ie The Hacienda...so when it opened...the horse had already bolted from the stable...Cream was the same...shit club opened after it had already happened Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Might be before your times Beeks but ever heard of Wigan Casino? Seem to remember it was the biggest dance club in the UK but also part of an underground scene So it had 50,000 members but most of the time there were between 500 and 1000 in there - meanwhile your local Tiffanies would have had 500 people in, multiply that by 100 Tiffanies and you'll see that Wigan was not the biggest dance club in the UK, it was the focus for Northern Soul, meanwhile thousands on thousand of normals were dancing to disco. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 You're absolutely right Cunnie...it was...but Ministry opened its Doors in 1991...by then the superclubs of House were already more than established ie The Hacienda...so when it opened...the horse had already bolted from the stable...Cream was the same...shit club opened after it had already happened oh here we go... Hacienda, Hacienda Hacienda.. The Hacienda was playing Indie records when it first opened. You had a big disco whopeee doo.. I never went i was going to Northern Soul allniters at Queens Hall Bradford where they played real Soulful House.. oh yeah and Pat Brady upstairs playing Northern Soul.. And who said the genres can't mix.. Before your time. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 meanwhile thousands on thousand of normals were dancing to disco. Nah that was Blackpool Mecca Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Miss Schmidt Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I understand your point...but it's something I grew out of many years ago and no matter what you put in front of me I can guarantee you I won't like it...and its not like I don't know what you're talking about either...I grew up on Frankie Knuckles...all i'm saying is in my opinion 'Never the twain should meet' they are completely different genres...as it stands you have your Northern Rooms coupled with say...a modern soul room...or say...an R&B room...to me this is acceptable because they all fell off the same tree... Personally I very much doubt that it will creep into the Soul Scene as there is not enough demand in the UK these days as you have well pointed out...but please don't call it underground...it is the most commercial monster of all time...underground was 1988 and Blackburn...even before that with the Early Chicago/Detroit sounds The Jack Trax stuff...DJ International Records etc etc...Frankie Knuckles 'Your Love' was 1985...now that really was underground There is a commercial scene now and an underground scene bro. Theo Parrish, Moodymann, Delsin records blablabla..my workmate is into all that sankeys kinda shit and he hates the new stuff I like. I mean, what kid likes Carl Craigs productions? Lots of my mates run very small independent labels and are proper nerds and music intellectuals..kinda "House music snobs". don't talk about it when you said goodbye to it in the 90s and totally lost track of the scene. I know you have otherwise you wouldnt write such statements..For me underground is Theo Parrish's ugly edits for example..or Dj Harvey. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest familytree Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 soulfull house is the natural successor to northern soul , listen to "TEARS"by Frankie Knuckeles if thats not soul i dont know what is ,and ive been a northern man since 73 Lovely example....I defy anyone to say its not soulful.......... gggrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I mean, what kid likes Carl Craigs productions? Lots of my mates run very small independent labels and are proper nerds and music intellectuals..kinda "House music snobs". don't talk about it when you said goodbye to it in the 90s and totally lost track of the scene. I know you have otherwise you wouldnt write such statements..For me underground is Theo Parrish's ugly edits for example..or Dj Harvey. Beg to differ there.. Most of the younger crowd i know are well into that Carl Craig techno sound. Ugley edits are pretty naff to be honest. Sorry. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Theo Parrish, Moodyman Theo Parrish has been going for years as has Moodyman...this is nothing new...they have just stood the test of time Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Cunnie Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 So it had 50,000 members but most of the time there were between 500 and 1000 in there - meanwhile your local Tiffanies would have had 500 people in, multiply that by 100 Tiffanies and you'll see that Wigan was not the biggest dance club in the UK, it was the focus for Northern Soul, meanwhile thousands on thousand of normals were dancing to disco. True Pete & I was one of them in't last couple of years but didn't WC win the worlds best Discoteque (never could spell that bloody word!) award or something silly like that? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 (edited) oh here we go... Hacienda, Hacienda Hacienda.. The Hacienda was playing Indie records when it first opened. You had a big disco whopeee doo.. Anyone who dismisses the Hacienda and proclaims to be into House music is more clueless than I first thought...without clubs like the Hac taking a chance and playing the music you probably wouldn't be on this thread now arguing the toss...you'd be listening to your true calling...Celine Dione or something Edited December 2, 2008 by Beeks Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest bazrico Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Might be before your times Beeks but ever heard of Wigan Casino? Seem to remember it was the biggest dance club in the UK but also part of an underground scene what about the other dance clubs , the wheel, torch, catcombs, va va need i say any more without these clubs where would our soul scene be Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Miss Schmidt Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Anyone who dismisses the Hacienda and proclaims to be into House music is more clueless than I first thought...without clubs like the Hac taking a chance and playing the music you probably wouldn't be on this thread now arguing the toss...you'd be listening to your true calling...Celine Dione or something Man, in the Deep House scene nobody gives much about the Hacienda. We are looking at the Shelter, the Garage, The Loft, the Music Box and the Warehouse not at the lame Hacienda. Anyone heard a Genre called "Hacienda"??? I havent...Pfff..UK is not the home of Deep House or Soulful House, and also not the centre of the world. sorry. The Cielo in NY for example is still going strong with an Underground scene. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Anyone who dismisses the Hacienda and proclaims to be into House music is more clueless than I first thought...without clubs like the Hac taking a chance and playing the music you probably wouldn't be on this thread now arguing the toss...you'd be listening to your true calling...Celine Dione or something Yeah yeah.... Not dismissing it at all. I know it's place in History.The House scene has moved on. It's 2008 not 88. Acid House came and went along with the Glow sticks. Like i told ya i never went i went to Bradford.. They Played House and Northern Soul together.. Kinda pisses on your argument don't it.. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Man, in the Deep House scene nobody gives much about the Hacienda. We are looking at the Shelter, the Garage, The Loft, the Music Box and the Warehouse not at the lame Hacienda. Anyone heard a Genre called "Hacienda"??? I havent...Pfff..UK is not the home of Deep House or Soulful House, and also not the centre of the world. sorry. The Cielo in NY for example is still going strong with an Underground scene. The Hacienda was voted the most influential House Music club in the world...it even beat Junior Vasquez Sound Factory in New York...and you're telling me it's lame? If you were one of the lucky few like me...you would realise how insane your comments are Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 True Pete & I was one of them in't last couple of years but didn't WC win the worlds best Discoteque (never could spell that bloody word!) award or something silly like that? The year after The Paradise Garage Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest cardysharpy Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Listen...you can slag me off all you like...I deal in simple facts and it all boils down to one thing HOUSE MUSIC IS DEAD It has been dead for several years...you think you're fooking underground Jihad?...you're not How do I know it's dead? For One...I worked in Record shops in Manc and watched its decline...even now...the Once Mighty Eastern Bloc records...one of the most influential record shops of house music in the UK EVER is a shell of what it once was...a powerhouse in the genre For Two...If you started a House Night in Manchester now...not only would it fail beyond words (One of my good friends ran Robodisco one of the most successful House nights ever ran in manc and subsequently folded due to lack of numbers) But you would be laughed out of town This isn't about fads you fookin idiot...it's about missing the boat...no scratch that...not even missing the boat...missing the point completely You talk about Manchester not being the be all? You couldn't be more wrong...London has been latching onto the Manchester music scene for years...and by the look of the likes of you nothing has changed House is for chavs and 18 year old crasher kids with furry boots...if you want to continue to think it has a big underground following then you are deluding yourself...if it had this big underground crowd...then where the fook are they buying their records from? Oh yeah...London What a joke There are still sell out underground house do's in London. Try something like Faith or Secretsundaes. Or if you are of the opinion that Dave Mancuso plays house, the Love Saves the Day Loft parties. The crowd are predominantly 30-45 year olds, none of whom have furry boots and many of whom were soul/jazz funk heads before acid house arrived. As for where do these people buy their records? From the same place as everyone else I would imagine; the internet. Which is the real reason for the decline of the record shop. Are you seriously suggesting that London "stole" house from Manchester? I reckon Chicago and Detroit might have a thing or two to say about that. I've only ever been to Eastern Bloc once, in 1990 and be assured that it's stock, even then, wasn't a patch on Quoff, Flying, groove, blackmarket, red and a whole mrriad of other record shops that were in London. Of course, none of this is relevant to Dave's original post. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 The Hacienda was voted the most influential House Music club in the world...it even beat Junior Vasquez Sound Factory in New York...and you're telling me it's lame? If you were one of the lucky few like me...you would realise how insane your comments are Lucky hahahahaha To go to a club full of Drug dealers with guns.. Yeah you knock yaself out.. Most influential.. eh Even more influential than the Warehouse or the Music Box.. Voted by whom exactly. Readers of MixMag Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 You'll be saying the Rolling Stones stole off Oasis next hahahahahahaha Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Are you seriously suggesting that London "stole" house from Manchester? No...but what I AM saying is that the North of England...like most musical genres...were the first to put House music on the map in the UK...again...undisputed fact Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Sean Hampsey Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Dave Moore comes on here and asks genuinely (from what I read on his first post) to be introduced to some soulful house tracks. Why do knobs that then just want to be negative and stick the boot in on a genre of music feel the need to chip in with shitey comments about how clever they think they are/were blah-de-da-de-da? Why not just leave those that can help Dave out, in his genuine search for something new, to do just that? Why not just park the negativity and let Dave find out for himself, from those that genuinely want to and can help? Negative bollocks. And boring negative bollocks at that Good Post, Steve. Dave asks a fair question and handbags break out amongst the house bretheren! (FFS... leave 'em on the dancefloor! ). Good thread though, Dave. Thanks to those who posted I heard a couple of things that I thought were OK... but only OK! Most were not really my cup of tea . Guess it all depends on your personal taste and your definition of 'SOUL' - and that is a very personal thing. All that aside, i'm just glad my own taste is perfect. Sean Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 No...but what I AM saying is that the North of England...like most musical genres...were the first to put House music on the map in the UK...again...undisputed fact Yeah in Bradford not in Manchester. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Lucky hahahahaha To go to a club full of Drug dealers with guns.. Yeah you knock yaself out.. Most influential.. eh Even more influential than the Warehouse or the Music Box.. Voted by whom exactly. Readers of MixMag The guns in the Hac only came in at the very end As for you to be quoting the Warehouse and the Music Box in the same sentence as i've just described The Absolute Legendary Sound Factory without even a mention again proves you have no idea what you're talking about Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Miss Schmidt Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 There are still sell out underground house do's in London. Try something like Faith or Secretsundaes. Or if you are of the opinion that Dave Mancuso plays house, the Love Saves the Day Loft parties. The crowd are predominantly 30-45 year olds, none of whom have furry boots and many of whom were soul/jazz funk heads before acid house arrived. As for where do these people buy their records? From the same place as everyone else I would imagine; the internet. Which is the real reason for the decline of the record shop. Are you seriously suggesting that London "stole" house from Manchester? I reckon Chicago and Detroit might have a thing or two to say about that. I've only ever been to Eastern Bloc once, in 1990 and be assured that it's stock, even then, wasn't a patch on Quoff, Flying, groove, blackmarket, red and a whole mrriad of other record shops that were in London. Of course, none of this is relevant to Dave's original post. Well said! "Furry boots"..my ass...as i said, if people ain't got a clue about the scene nowadays they'll better be quiet. Seen on a long term the hacienda didn't have much influence on Soulful House music. How? All the amazing producers where from the US. They might have played the records at Hacienda but did that change the music?? When I think of the Hacienda I think of some pilled up ravers but when I think of the Shelter i think of great dancers, a black crowd, Soulful music..For me House is a US thing, a black american thing mainly. Say it with Eddie Amador: "Not everyone understands house music, it's a spiritual thing, a body thing, a soul thing"...A night at the Shelter was called "Body and Soul" btw. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Modernsoulsucks Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Played by Northern DJ's in Northern venues to floors full of Northern punters - what are they then??? Big for Butch? Andy Dyson? Anybody with a decent set? I don't think so. Forgettable floor filler at some ATB/handbag night. No idea if they were modern 45s first but in a Northern context, junk. ROD Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Good Post, Steve. Dave asks a fair question and handbags break out amongst the house bretheren! (FFS... leave 'em on the dancefloor! ). Sean Beeks isn't one of "our" House bretheran.. He's a born again Northern Soulie. Hallelujah brothers.. He's here to save us from the impending 4/4 invasion. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Miss Schmidt Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 The guns in the Hac only came in at the very end As for you to be quoting the Warehouse and the Music Box in the same sentence as i've just described The Absolute Legendary Sound Factory without even a mention again proves you have no idea what you're talking about Why do you think House is called House??? WareHOUSE! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Well said! "Furry boots"..my ass...as i said, if people ain't got a clue about the scene nowadays they'll better be quiet. Seen on a long term the hacienda didn't have much influence on Soulful House music. How? All the amazing producers where from the US. They might have played the records at Hacienda but did that change the music?? When I think of the Hacienda I think of some pilled up ravers but when I think of the Shelter i think of great dancers, a black crowd, Soulful music..For me House is a US thing, a black american thing mainly. Say it with Eddie Amador: "Not everyone understands house music, it's a spiritual thing, a body thing, a soul thing"...A night at the Shelter was called "Body and Soul" btw. You really need to know your history Shmidt...House music was a non entity until it arrived in the UK...the scene was miniscule in the US and would probably have never even taken off at all if it wasn't for the british taking it to their hearts and starting to buy the US producers records...sort of like Bill Hicks the comedian who wasn't discovered in the US until he took Britain by storm then suddenly the US took an interest...exactly the same Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Why do you think House is called House??? WareHOUSE! Absolutely...Blackburn Warehouse see previous post Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 The guns in the Hac only came in at the very end As for you to be quoting the Warehouse and the Music Box in the same sentence as i've just described The Absolute Legendary Sound Factory without even a mention again proves you have no idea what you're talking about I have no idea!! The Sound Factory came years after the Warehouse and the Music Box. I was never really into all that Junior Vasquez stuff anyway. Go miss thing . I see you've not even mentioned Zanzibar.. The real sound of Soulful House music with Tony Humphries. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Cunnie Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Big for Butch? Andy Dyson? Anybody with a decent set? I don't think so. Forgettable floor filler at some ATB/handbag night. No idea if they were modern 45s first but in a Northern context, junk. ROD Nowhere near rare enough for Butch & Andy. Big for Sam though & several others. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Miss Schmidt Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I have no idea!! The Sound Factory came years after the Warehouse and the Music Box. I was never really into all that Junior Vasquez stuff anyway. Go miss thing . I see you've not even mentioned Zanzibar.. The real sound of Soulful House music with Tony Humphries. Oh yeah, the Zanzibar! Damn! Like the tune as well...Is there any tune mentioning Hacienda??? Hmmm..Shelter? Yep. Garage? Yep. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 You kids need to start looking at the history of the music you love because you are looking a little silly on here...then you can shout your mouth off in a more informed manner about the origins of what you are listening to today...can't be arsed reiterating points anymore so fight amongst yourselves...I know better...you don't...end of conversation cheers Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 The real sound of Soulful House music with Tony Humphries. I've seen Tony Humphries DJ more times than you've had hot dinners...i'll even post up a picture of me with him at Soak in Leeds Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 You kids need to start looking at the history of the music you love because you are looking a little silly on here...then you can shout your mouth off in a more informed manner about the origins of what you are listening to today...can't be arsed reiterating points anymore so fight amongst yourselves...I know better...you don't...end of conversation cheers In other words you've run out of complete bollox. I know full well the History of what i'm into. The Hacienada wasn't the be all and end all. Neither is MOS, Cream or any of the superclubs. The music still goes on ever changing ever soulful in the smaller friendlier parties and that's all that matters. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Miss Schmidt Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 You kids need to start looking at the history of the music you love because you are looking a little silly on here...then you can shout your mouth off in a more informed manner about the origins of what you are listening to today...can't be arsed reiterating points anymore so fight amongst yourselves...I know better...you don't...end of conversation cheers Oh yes dad, thanks very much. Well, well, maybe I think you look silly out there..especially talking about the scene nowadays.. Regarding Deep House music the Hacienda isn't that relevant. I've read books about House, seen films and documentations. The Hacienda is mentioned and has it's chapter but that's it. It did't change the world.. It's all about the USA. Timmy Regisford was always miles better than Humphries as a Dj.. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest cardysharpy Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 No...but what I AM saying is that the North of England...like most musical genres...were the first to put House music on the map in the UK...again...undisputed fact Not on my map mate. At exactly the same time as the Hac was playing house so was the Clink, the Fitness centre, the tunnel club by the blackwall tunnel and the Downham Tavern..... and they are just some of the venues that were in SE London, let alone the rest of the metropolis. And it wasn't until the whole Madchester thing that I (and I would guess thousands of other londoners) became aware of the Hacienda. The two things grew in tandem, which is why, when we went to have a nose around Manc in 1990 our "look" made us stand out like pork pies in a synagogue from the local house heads. So I guess I'm disputing your "fact". Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I've seen Tony Humphries DJ more times than you've had hot dinners...i'll even post up a picture of me with him at Soak in Leeds I've had a lot of Hot dinners.. I've also seen Humphries more times than i've had hot diners.. I've got a pic of him at some dodgy club off Tottenham Court roads toilet.. touche Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Roll up, roll up - Beeks the talking arse is in da house Derek Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Not on my map mate. At exactly the same time as the Hac was playing house so was the Clink, the Fitness centre, the tunnel club by the blackwall tunnel and the Downham Tavern..... and they are just some of the venues that were in SE London, let alone the rest of the metropolis. And it wasn't until the whole Madchester thing that I (and I would guess thousands of other londoners) became aware of the Hacienda. The two things grew in tandem, which is why, when we went to have a nose around Manc in 1990 our "look" made us stand out like pork pies in a synagogue from the local house heads. So I guess I'm disputing your "fact". There were coaches going to the Hacienda back as far as 1983, from the Midlands anyway, I was surprised to find some of the old northern soulies went there, but it was mainly for indie music. Plus it was featured on the Tube a couple of times. I think Madonna did her very first ever UK tv appearancefrom the Hacienda, I remember thinking it was just badly mimed rubbish. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Roll up, roll up - Beeks the talking arse is in da house Derek For once Derek...I happen to know what i'm talking about Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Roll up, roll up - Beeks the talking arse is in da house Derek Top contribution! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Miss Schmidt Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 For once Derek...I happen to know what i'm talking about You mean you think you do... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 You mean you think you do... You see Veruka I was going out when house music was TRULY underground...at that point you were probably running around the schoolyard while your elders were listening to Berlin Industrial Techno...so yes...you could say I might know better Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Miss Schmidt Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 (edited) You see Veruka I was going out when house music was TRULY underground...at that point you were probably running around the schoolyard while your elders were listening to Berlin Industrial Techno...so yes...you could say I might know better Firstly my name is VERUSCHKA and secondly I'm 35 so don't gimme that shit bhooooy! Oh and with "TRULY underground" you mean those big crowds at Hacienda??? Yeah, that certainly IS underground..or have you been hanging with the chosen few at the LOFT??? Edited December 2, 2008 by Miss Schmidt Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Firstly my name is VERUSCHKA and secondly I'm 35 so don't gimme that shit bhooooy! Thats what I said...Veruka Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Miss Schmidt Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 (edited) Thats what I said...Veruka Ahhh, what did you say about "playground" again? "schoolyard" it was..same thing.. Edited December 2, 2008 by Miss Schmidt Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Beeks Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Ahhh, what did you say about "playground" again? "schoolyard" it was..same thing.. I'm only teasing..where's that German sense of humour? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
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