https://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oBQDChSclV8

Once again me and the wife are up late chewing the fat and she being a tad younger than myself, having being bombarded by Northern, 70's and Funk stuff for years brought about a discussion that ended with this track surfacing.

It's a few years old now and possibly a passe track on the current House scene, but I feel it's instrumentation, use of keyboards etc qualify it (in our mind anyhow) for an instrumental that lives up to the values of classic NS instrumentals.

What say you.

OHS brought this fella into the UK before he broke big, £1500 and flights at the time, he's the best side of 10k nowadays.

He didn't want to go home after his soiree and was so pleased with the smack-heads in The Bears Paw in Frodsham ha ha.

Good lad.

Anyway, is this track too far down the pan for the average Soulie to cope with?

  Barry said:

https://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oBQDChSclV8

Once again me and the wife are up late chewing the fat and she being a tad younger than myself, having being bombarded by Northern, 70's and Funk stuff for years brought about a discussion that ended with this track surfacing.

It's a few years old now and possibly a passe track on the current House scene, but I feel it's instrumentation, use of keyboards etc qualify it (in our mind anyhow) for an instrumental that lives up to the values of classic NS instrumentals.

What say you.

OHS brought this fella into the UK before he broke big, £1500 and flights at the time, he's the best side of 10k nowadays.

He didn't want to go home after his soiree and was so pleased with the smack-heads in The Bears Paw in Frodsham ha ha.

Good lad.

Anyway, is this track too far down the pan for the average Soulie to cope with?

]

Possibly a tad to adventurous for today's viewpoint , unless there is a 7" edit that can be given to a retired educational doyen to play , then people will accept it , and hail it as the biggest record of all time .......

Malc Burton

I would want a refund if this got a spin

Makes my head ache- but ey, might also be the bottle of red wine I had yesterday....

Edited November 29, 200816 yr by hermanthegerman

Not a bad house record, but not Northern as such, as with a lot of these tracks "Where's the soul". makes you foot tap, but these records are to obvious, there are aimed at a market, the breaks (for mixing) are safely put into place, the intros are the same,

We once spent 6 hours in Renaissance early 90's and didn't hear ONE vocal ! Sasha, the God of house played as did several others with big names, and just mixed into each other !

Each to his own, but its just about 8min.30sec tooooooo loonnnnngggg

Rob

was going to say no worse than some stuff i hear in the modern rooms but hey im beginning to like my little trips into those places

kev

  Karen and Rob Wigley said:

Not a bad house record, but not Northern as such, as with a lot of these tracks "Where's the soul". makes you foot tap, but these records are to obvious, there are aimed at a market, the breaks (for mixing) are safely put into place, the intros are the same,

We once spent 6 hours in Renaissance early 90's and didn't hear ONE vocal ! Sasha, the God of house played as did several others with big names, and just mixed into each other !

Each to his own, but its just about 8min.30sec tooooooo loonnnnngggg

Rob

I'm sorry but what did you expect... Sasha Renaissance!!

Go to a real House night instead of some hyped up pop gig.

Once again i'm astounded by the ignorance of the Northern Soul scene.

That´s not a matter of ignorance, it´s a matter of (good) taste...

Somebody could pay me money and I wouldn´t visit a house- party.

Except it was at Heidi Klums house, of course....

  SoulJihad said:

I'm sorry but what did you expect... Sasha Renaissance!!

Go to a real House night instead of some hyped up pop gig.

Once again i'm astounded by the ignorance of the Northern Soul scene.

it was 1991 NOT LAST WEEK

and I'm astounded by the LACK OF SOUL in house, yet the punters seem to still hang on to the coat tails of Modern Soul scene- for some reason.

by the way is Southport Weekender a Soul Gig or a House Gig ?

ROB

Couldn't recognise anything soulful there I'm afraid.

I personally can't handle anything that repeats its self more than 60 X a minute and this just bores me to death and about as Northern sounding as Abba.

repetitive crap.

Edited November 30, 200816 yr by Prophonics 2029

I could make that on my computer

  SoulJihad said:

Once again i'm astounded by the ignorance of the Northern Soul scene.

If you can explain to me where the Soul in that recording is, I'll accept I'm ignorant, otherwise it's you that is showing your own ignorance through your lack of manners.

  Pete S said:

I could make that on my computer

...and earn lots of dosh with that shite, might be an alternative too selling dusty old soul 45´s

  Dave Rimmer said:

If you can explain to me where the Soul in that recording is, I'll accept I'm ignorant, otherwise it's you that is showing your own ignorance through your lack of manners.

  Pete S said:

I could make that on my computer

your avitar , it does'nt half look like barry (who started this thread),,,

  gfarrington said:

your avitar , it does'nt half look like barry (who started this thread),,,

i thought i'd still got brenda holloway as the avatar

Dreadful!!, is this the future of music?, my son could make a better tune on his laptop, monotonus crap!

Lenny

  BIGSOULMAN said:

Dreadful!!, is this the future of music?, my son could make a better tune on his laptop, monotonus crap!

Lenny

Seem to recall people saying the same when the first Crossover and modern tracks appeared 30+ years ago........

Don't shoot the messenger by the way - it's just an observation

NO! NO! NO! Not Northern, Not soul. IMO just drivel. There are thousands of fantastic Northern tunes that just grab you by the jugular and throw you onto the dancefloor without having to find THAT tune to bring the scene kicking and screaming into the "whatever this tune is" craze. The Northern Scene is conveyed by the feeling you get on the dancefloor and show the respect the tunes deserve towards the artists who put their HEART and SOUL into cutting them. Not sitting behind a PC and putting together 20 or so minutes of complete bilge.Each to their own but no place on the NORTERN scene if this becomes the norm im gonna kick my own gonads in, change my name to Tarquin, become a monk and write poetry all day.

Kev

  Pete S said:

I could make that on my computer

'kin 'ell are you that bad on your computer pete!

Rubbish.....wots this doin on hear..This is SOUL SOURCE.

  Incognito said:

Please Rob don't tag this as modern soul. or soulful house for that matter, I love both but this is neither. Its drivel and gives modern soul an undeserved rep that the oldies cling onto. When I go into a modern room I certainly don't expect to hear rubbish like this.

John(Nottm)

My feelings also.

This thread is actually doing damage to the work and progression that many a dj has put in to get proper "Soulful" House more widely accepted.

Barry...surely knew the answer to this question before you asked it....or you should have done..

  Teapot said:

Seem to recall people saying the same when the first Crossover and modern tracks appeared 30+ years ago........

Don't shoot the messenger by the way - it's just an observation

I doubt very much if I would embrace this kind of music, nothing to do with soul...end of

Edited November 30, 200816 yr by BIGSOULMAN

WARNING !

This is the sort of music that I listened to when my drug habit got out of control - and I ended up in a mental institution

(I'm convinced it was the music and not the drugs that sent me crazy)

Bit of a strange choice to post up as an example of a house record someway related to soul music? QH has done many quality productions with vocals which fit into the uptempo end of the modern soul scene , this is the side of his work that is very far removed from, and makes no attempt to make any claim that it is in any way, a soul recording? this is clearly a house record end of.

I'd have thought maybe you could have posted something like 'Angel' or 'Traveling', or one of his remixes like Alicia Keys 'Diary' or Luther 'Apologize' as a better example of something that may cross over into the soul scene?

cheers Sutty

  Karen and Rob Wigley said:

it was 1991 NOT LAST WEEK

and I'm astounded by the LACK OF SOUL in house, yet the punters seem to still hang on to the coat tails of Modern Soul scene- for some reason.

by the way is Southport Weekender a Soul Gig or a House Gig ?

ROB

Both Rob.

  Incognito said:

Please Rob don't tag this as modern soul. or soulful house for that matter, I love both but this is neither. Its drivel and gives modern soul an undeserved rep that the oldies cling onto. When I go into a modern room I certainly don't expect to hear rubbish like this.

John(Nottm)

YOU MISREAD MY QUOTE JOHN

it just seems, that some of the house boys "Tag" on to the Modern SOUL scene in order to "progress it". They probably drive more people away by being clever !

Times are a changing and as i can tell you there is a "Back to the Soul" movement underway.

Even some of the artist who embraced the "house" and gave credibility to the movement a few years ago have switched tack, its been done to death, Disco for the masses.

It quite embarrassing to watch "Grown up parents" jumping about to their kids music, for them it must be like watching your dad dance at a wedding!

Back on topic- This track would NOT be suitable for a Northern or Modern SOUL venue. FULL STOP.

Rob

  Cunnie said:

Both Rob.

Not what I heard last week Martin, sounds like the "souls" vaccated the building

  Incognito said:

I humbly apologise to you Rob and I do proudly embarress my kids at weddings and this is not SOUL.

John

Got any videos of the weddings ? Please post them up

see you very soon

rob & "School teacher" karen

  Karen and Rob Wigley said:

YOU MISREAD MY QUOTE JOHN

It quite embarrassing to watch "Grown up parents" jumping about to their kids music, for them it must be like watching your dad dance at a wedding!

Back on topic- This track would NOT be suitable for a Northern or Modern SOUL venue. FULL STOP.

Rob

I can assure you that the modern dance music I listen to & play bears no resemblance to the stuff that kids listen to on any given high street on a Saturday night.

People of a certain age dancing to modern dance music, is it any more or less cringeworthy than their peers dancing to old dance music? - 'cos over 2000 of them seemed happy enough to do it at Blackpool Tower a couple of weeks ago & not many of them suffered from acute embarassement.

BTW Quentin Harris has released a shed load of tunes which are far better than the one featured in this thread - artists like Melba Moore, Patti Labelle, Joi Cardwell etc. & we all know their SOUL pedigree.

  Karen and Rob Wigley said:

it was 1991 NOT LAST WEEK

and I'm astounded by the LACK OF SOUL in house, yet the punters seem to still hang on to the coat tails of Modern Soul scene- for some reason.

by the way is Southport Weekender a Soul Gig or a House Gig ?

ROB

Most definately a Soul gig... so covers all genres of soul and moves with the times... I cant believe people make comment on here about house/garage not being soulful, you obviously havnt heard it properly, just experienced D.js who decided to dabble in it too late to have the early gems or D.Js who cant play an inspiring set and just bang on tunes with the same bpms making you feel like your listening/dancing to one long tune. no wonder many have been turned off. as ive said before, if Wigan was still open and there had been a natural progression in the music (not controlled) we would have been dancing to house/garage there now. it has all the qualities of N.S gems and there are and always will be, little independant labels churning out masterpieces that many on here let slip away. Dont worry though, we have many copies of them for when its decided they are rare enough and good enough to own.

  familytree said:

Most definately a Soul gig... so covers all genres of soul and moves with the times... I cant believe people make comment on here about house/garage not being soulful, you obviously havnt heard it properly, just experienced D.js who decided to dabble in it too late to have the early gems or D.Js who cant play an inspiring set and just bang on tunes with the same bpms making you feel like your listening/dancing to one long tune. no wonder many have been turned off. as ive said before, if Wigan was still open and there had been a natural progression in the music (not controlled) we would have been dancing to house/garage there now. it has all the qualities of N.S gems and there are and always will be, little independant labels churning out masterpieces that many on here let slip away. Dont worry though, we have many copies of them for when its decided they are rare enough and good enough to own.

I've got my kevin&perry record ready for that day

  familytree said:

Most definately a Soul gig... so covers all genres of soul and moves with the times... I cant believe people make comment on here about house/garage not being soulful, you obviously havnt heard it properly, just experienced D.js who decided to dabble in it too late to have the early gems or D.Js who cant play an inspiring set and just bang on tunes with the same bpms making you feel like your listening/dancing to one long tune. no wonder many have been turned off. as ive said before, if Wigan was still open and there had been a natural progression in the music (not controlled) we would have been dancing to house/garage there now. it has all the qualities of N.S gems and there are and always will be, little independant labels churning out masterpieces that many on here let slip away. Dont worry though, we have many copies of them for when its decided they are rare enough and good enough to own.

Dear Mr/Mrs Tree

we followed the natural progression through 4 decades of soul music, the record that woke me up to the fact the the House was a con was when the re-mix/ sample of Al Hudson "Spread love" was being touted as the next big this a few years back (3 or 4). I had the original and it was far better. i stopped buying 12s blind after that.

Its just what they did with the later disco 45s,in the 70s, when people jumped on the band wagon and started to DISCOTIZE every tune they could lay their hands on ie Softones version of "That old black magic"--get my drift. it was played at The Mecca and people danced, it was a Soul Group ,but the record had NO SOUL, i fell into the trap and paid my 85p for it.

Wind on 35 years and its happening again, but as a popular music form its already slipping undergound (House)

You have your duplicates, as has John Corless, Richie Broughton etc who have been buying and watching the music develop and picking up the future rarities to make a few bob for their pensions I'm not about chasing records because they are rare or expensive, just good SOUL records that you can dance to, however if you think House is the future of the Northern or Modern Scene's then you are in for a shock. You have 5 years to unload your treasure(s) as after that we'll all be too F**ked to dance anyway

Back to Southport i was there at the very begining and I was last there 2 years ago, I would imagine its great if you can still take copious amounts of narcotics and get lost in the sounds and light shows. Take anyone from the Nighter scene and they would understand it, how ever take "joe soul night " punter and they would hate it !

i love to watch good Djs mix (the tec aspect is great) Dave Hulmes, I could watch him all day.

But for me its got to be good (Old fashioned ?) SOUL MUSIC, a good tune, a good vocal, a great lyric that grabs you by the heart, I'm not bothered what decade it comes from.

House records will Bleed on to play lists when they are good enough, but as with all fads "Will come to fade in time".

If you enjoy it, do it . But this is a rare SOUL forum and 96% are only interested in that .

Rob

The points raised on here are the same ones that rear their ugly heads on similar threads over the last couple of years.

The conclusion I have reached is that as much as I love modern dance music it is NOT Northern Soul & never will be - yes there are similarities but people who love dancing to Dobie Gray, Moses Smith etc. are never going to want to listen to the likes of Blaze, Byron Stingily etc.

There will be small groups of people who will accept "newer" music but this will be a minority.

Who knows - perhaps the next generation may embrace 90s dance records & discover them just as we did back in the 70s with Northern Soul - but they may look at it without the "Northern" angle on it.

  Prophonics 2029 said:

I personally can't handle anything that repeats its self more than 60 X a minute and this just bores me to death and about as Northern sounding as Abba.

repetitive crap.

You should hear his cover of "Joe 90" ....bet thats shite aswell

  Pete S said:

I could make that on my computer

Go on then make it.. I dare ya

rm Southport is a Dance music Weekender..

Rob you've not got a clue. You went to a Handbag House night over 10 Years ago.. That's like basing your knowledge of Northern Soul on hearing Footsee.

Hmm it's a passing fad.. Tell ya what it's been passing by since the mid 80's and it's still passing.

Good old fashioned "Soul" music.. How moronic can you be.

96% here only like "Rare" Soul.. How do you know you asked em all.. And who put you in charge

Tell ya what there's a fair few House 12"s rarer than the majority of Northern Soul tracks i can tell ya.

Edited December 1, 200816 yr by Guest

  SoulJihad said:

Go on then make it.. I dare ya

How did I know that of all the 40+ replies on here, you'd reply to mine. Bizarre.

p.s. give me 10 minutes and I'll have a go

  Pete S said:

How did I know that of all the 40+ replies on here, you'd reply to mine. Bizarre.

p.s. give me 10 minutes and I'll have a go

i'm still waiting.

  SoulJihad said:

i'm still waiting.

Sorry, I have 2 children I'm looking after, I'll try and recreate that masterpiece as soon as their Mum gets home

  Pete S said:

Sorry, I have 2 children I'm looking after, I'll try and recreate that masterpiece as soon as their Mum gets home

Perhaps they can help you.

  SoulJihad said:

Perhaps they can help you.

No, the three year old could do it on his own..

  Pete S said:

No, the three year old could do it on his own..

He's probably got more intelligence than you that's why..

Still waiting.

  SoulJihad said:

He's probably got more intelligence than you that's why..

Still waiting.

Had enough of you now...see ya

Edited December 1, 200816 yr by Pete S

  Pete S said:

Had enough of you now...see ya

  Karen and Rob Wigley said:

Dear Mr/Mrs Tree

we followed the natural progression through 4 decades of soul music, the record that woke me up to the fact the the House was a con was when the re-mix/ sample of Al Hudson "Spread love" was being touted as the next big this a few years back (3 or 4). I had the original and it was far better. i stopped buying 12s blind after that.

Its just what they did with the later disco 45s,in the 70s, when people jumped on the band wagon and started to DISCOTIZE every tune they could lay their hands on ie Softones version of "That old black magic"--get my drift. it was played at The Mecca and people danced, it was a Soul Group ,but the record had NO SOUL, i fell into the trap and paid my 85p for it.

Wind on 35 years and its happening again, but as a popular music form its already slipping undergound (

You have your duplicates, as has John Corless, Richie Broughton etc who have been buying and watching the music develop and picking up the future rarities to make a few bob for their pensions I'm not about chasing records because they are rare or expensive, just good SOUL records that you can dance to, however if you think House is the future of the Northern or Modern Scene's then you are in for a shock. You have 5 years to unload your treasure(s) as after that we'll all be too F**ked to dance anyway

Back to Southport i was there at the very begining and I was last there 2 years ago, I would imagine its great if you can still take copious amounts of narcotics and get lost in the sounds and light shows. Take anyone from the Nighter scene and they would understand it, how ever take "joe soul night " punter and they would hate it !

i love to watch good Djs mix (the tec aspect is great) Dave Hulmes, I could watch him all day.

But for me its got to be good (Old fashioned ?) SOUL MUSIC, a good tune, a good vocal, a great lyric that grabs you by the heart, I'm not bothered what decade it comes from.

House records will Bleed on to play lists when they are good enough, but as with all fads "Will come to fade in time".

If you enjoy it, do it . But this is a rare SOUL forum and 96% are only interested in that .

Rob

Hi, (its Miss by the way I respect your point of view but i feel you are missing the point somewhat as it is the 'good soulful tunes you can dance to' that im refering to. I repeat that I feel your experience of it has been a bad one and Im not suprised for the reasons Ive stated previously. It would be far more honourable to accept its a field you no very little about and credit others with having the knowledge of it and the good taste to know. I have spent my life with music, from Tamla/Atlantic etc as a child to Wigan at 13 years old until it closed and the Mecca too. It wasnt just a passage of time for us until we got married/had children etc we have lived and breathed it ever since and tryed to make a living from it too as it was our chosen career path for some time. Life after the Mecca/Wigan continued and we frequented all the clubs that merited it (In our opinion) from Colins Jazz funk events to The Wag/le beate route as well as Normans 'good times' events. We attended Alex's Southport events from conception and he would be more than offended to be told his events were not soulful in the main. his love of soul music is what inspired him to take on such a massive project. Why would you need huge amounts of drugs to enjoy the place? Old peaple on the northern scene still manage to fling foot to records exceeding the BPMs of most tunes at southport?.... unless they take them there too?:)We went to clubs in N.Y from P.garage to Body & soul (wonder why they called it that?) and Shelter. We also linked up with Ace Mungin of 'Acebeat Music' ( who can be credited for having the likes of Blaze, Jomanda and many more on his books) and produced soulful garage music on our small independant label. I mention all this to point out that with our history its quite insulting to be told music you believe in is not soulful! Of course there is Gallons of crap out there as there is on the northern/modern scene... it takes effort, you have to hunt them out, sift through garbage... sound familiar?! We dont chase records because they are rare or expensive either... we seek them out because they are brilliant. I can see in the short time ive been a member on here that never the twain shall meet... but it is a soul site so soulful garage/house has its place on here. Nice to meet you, have a nice week x

  Incognito said:

Don't let them get to you, every other week a thread like this gets posted just to yank a few chains and get us, who appreciate a bit of modern, to bite.

John

Yes Im gettin the gist and it looks like its best to shut up but Im a woman and we like to have the last word! nice to meet you x

  Incognito said:

I can assure you that your sexuality will never get you that, these guys are at it 24/7. Like old fish wives.

John

Ok... early bath for me then... oh just one more point! tee hee x

  familytree said:

Hi, (its Miss by the way I respect your point of view but i feel you are missing the point somewhat as it is the 'good soulful tunes you can dance to' that im refering to. I repeat that I feel your experience of it has been a bad one and Im not suprised for the reasons Ive stated previously. It would be far more honourable to accept its a field you no very little about and credit others with having the knowledge of it and the good taste to know. I have spent my life with music, from Tamla/Atlantic etc as a child to Wigan at 13 years old until it closed and the Mecca too. It wasnt just a passage of time for us until we got married/had children etc we have lived and breathed it ever since and tryed to make a living from it too as it was our chosen career path for some time. Life after the Mecca/Wigan continued and we frequented all the clubs that merited it (In our opinion) from Colins Jazz funk events to The Wag/le beate route as well as Normans 'good times' events. We attended Alex's Southport events from conception and he would be more than offended to be told his events were not soulful in the main. his love of soul music is what inspired him to take on such a massive project. Why would you need huge amounts of drugs to enjoy the place? Old peaple on the northern scene still manage to fling foot to records exceeding the BPMs of most tunes at southport?.... unless they take them there too?:)We went to clubs in N.Y from P.garage to Body & soul (wonder why they called it that?) and Shelter. We also linked up with Ace Mungin of 'Acebeat Music' ( who can be credited for having the likes of Blaze, Jomanda and many more on his books) and produced soulful garage music on our small independant label. I mention all this to point out that with our history its quite insulting to be told music you believe in is not soulful! Of course there is Gallons of crap out there as there is on the northern/modern scene... it takes effort, you have to hunt them out, sift through garbage... sound familiar?! We dont chase records because they are rare or expensive either... we seek them out because they are brilliant. I can see in the short time ive been a member on here that never the twain shall meet... but it is a soul site so soulful garage/house has its place on here. Nice to meet you, have a nice week x

Good reply miss-tree

I've "twigged" on to who you are now.

Still think Southport has lost its direction as a soul venue and is only paying lipservice to the (few) older punters who have been there from the early days. With the exit of Richard Searling think things will go down the pan (Soul wise) even quicker. Alex has relied on major sponsorship and has built a superb brand in Southport, however as these sponsors now withdraw their support "There may be trouble ahead". Hope not , but wait and see.

Had this discussion with Yogi a few weeks back (who I know you know) and as you say i probably know alot less about this genre of music than others, but you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink ! As I said i did buy into it, chasing the latest 12's for a while, I still buy bulk- if they are cheap enough-and sit and play through them when i have time.

As for a "scene" you'll have to book your small venue and play to the 30 or so enlightened Souls who frequent this site. We are always looking for somewhere new to go.

However, as my last word on this thread, I think the way forward for myself and karen is SOUL music and a venue that features LIVE Soul acts in an intimate setting, that is where my money is going nowadays. (see our "What if" thread)

In the natural progression of stuff, keeping it soulful and being true to our SOUL

Rob

Funnily enough i spent quite a bit of the last Southport weekender in the company of Yogi..

The one wish i have of Southport is that they bring back the Northern soul couple of hours, for the simple reason the majority of the people there have never, nor will ever come across it. They did it with the Jazz on Saturday afternoon. I know TJ and AD do the usual oldies on a Saturday afternoon but sometimes it's bordering on cringeworthy.

Things move on and the BBar is mobbed with youngsters that want to hear MrScruff, Spinna, Ron Trent, Moodyman, Theo Parrish, Rahaan etc.. Maybe not playing what you and the rest of the "Soul" scene recognise as "Soul" but it is none the less and they're doing it their way without the overbearing influence of a "Soul" scene that places the emphasis on rarity of records rather than they're quality.

Too base an opinion on the Southport weekender by going once in how many years is ridiculous, it's an ever changing experience and long may it remain so. It's sold out every time and the only way i can see it coming to an end is when the camp is demolished. Which if the stories are correct won't be that long away. 2 maybe 3 years as it's been sold off for redevelopment.