I Honestly Would Like To Know

[Guest Bicks]

Please don't think I'm trying to be smart or clever, I'm not, I'm just curious about something.

I've already had a volley of abuse from some members on here due to my 'lack of understanding' so please be gentle.

First of all I must say that I have never DJ'd nor have I any intention to do so but this thing about 'originals' versus re-issues versus cd's really has me confused (the bootleg bit I can sort of grasp).

I've collected records since I was about 12 (30 years), sadly not Northern Soul stuff, and whilst I love my records I am just as happy to hear them off cd as I am off vinyl, although I do agree there is something special about putting a record onto a turntable and having to look after it.

I can also understand that it's always nicer to own an original than a re-issue, all those re-issue albums with that little red 'fame' logo in the corner make me shudder when I see them

I think what really puzzles me is the DJ bit. There are comments on here like "i would boycott any event that played boots or cd's".

WHY? surely it's about the music, not the format. As the Gordy label proclaims "It's what's in the grooves that counts" (i.e. not the grooves themselves)

As you can appreciate I was too young for the 70's early 80's heyday of the scene where cd's weren't available or even invented so obviously everything was off vinyl, is it a throwback to those days?

Feel free to wax lyrical, I really would like to understand why it is so important, and please don't just say (as I saw on another thread when somebody asked a similar question) "if you don't know now you never will, and I'm not going to explain", that really doesn't help.

[Mak]

although I do agree there is something special about putting a record onto a turntable and having to look after it.

I can also understand that it's always nicer to own an original than a re-issue,

That answers everything Bicks

[Pauldonnelly]

Please don't think I'm trying to be smart or clever, I'm not, I'm just curious about something.

I've already had a volley of abuse from some members on here due to my 'lack of understanding' so please be gentle.

First of all I must say that I have never DJ'd nor have I any intention to do so but this thing about 'originals' versus re-issues versus cd's really has me confused (the bootleg bit I can sort of grasp).

I've collected records since I was about 12 (30 years), sadly not Northern Soul stuff, and whilst I love my records I am just as happy to hear them off cd as I am off vinyl, although I do agree there is something special about putting a record onto a turntable and having to look after it.

I can also understand that it's always nicer to own an original than a re-issue, all those re-issue albums with that little red 'fame' logo in the corner make me shudder when I see them

I think what really puzzles me is the DJ bit. There are comments on here like "i would boycott any event that played boots or cd's".

WHY? surely it's about the music, not the format. As the Gordy label proclaims "It's what's in the grooves that counts" (i.e. not the grooves themselves)

As you can appreciate I was too young for the 70's early 80's heyday of the scene where cd's weren't available or even invented so obviously everything was off vinyl, is it a throwback to those days?

Feel free to wax lyrical, I really would like to understand why it is so important, and please don't just say (as I saw on another thread when somebody asked a similar question) "if you don't know now you never will, and I'm not going to explain", that really doesn't help.

I recently put some sales on here and while compiling the list I wrote Reggie Garner - Hot Line - Capitol £20 Monster Record from way back in the day... It made me think about where I purchased it from in 1975, the fact it was one "we all wanted" the fact it cost me a weeks wages and the fact it had been in my collection for 33 years....it made me realise how importnat this record was and should remain to me...I decided not to sell it as its what collecting vinyl was all about. As for cd's I have no idea where to put the needle down on them.

[Pauldonnelly]

I sometimes get rather dissapointed when a record arrives mint, like Rice Crispies theres something VERY special about a few crackles and pops..

[Guest Beeks]

You're perfectly entitled to be confused 'Man of similar name'

To be honest when I arrived on here I was of the opinion that it doesn't matter what medium it is on it's the music that counts and used to happily play anything I wanted on any format (granted on a different scene) whenever I played out

But after a helpful push in the right direction by the good people on here (and trust me Bicks, the majority may seem miserable and unwelcoming but they are just passionate and pussycats in real life) I can now say i'm firmly in the OVO(Original Vinyl Only) camp

It is still the music that counts...and I didn't decide to collect original vinyl because I was told to by Soul knowitalls...I started because I began to enjoy collecting originals

I think the policy of OVO at the more established Nighters etc is a great tradition which has been carried on for years...there are alot of venues out there (the more crossover/younger nights) that still play all sorts of mediums...

I suppose if you think about it...it's looking at it more from a collectors standpoint than as DJs on this scene...the clues in the title 'Rare Soul'

Just because i'm in the OVO camp though i'm not as unforgiving as some of the older lot on here...couldn't give a toss what medium others play their music on...doesn't interest me outside of my decisions and what I chose to purchase musically.

You've probably opened the proverbial can of worms starting this thread as this is a subject that seems to never die on this site

PS. I have one boot in my record box 'Tammi Terrell - All I Do Is Think About You' but it was unreleased so fook em

Edited November 18, 2008 by Beeks

[Simsy]

I think what really puzzles me is the DJ bit. There are comments on here like "i would boycott any event that played boots or cd's".

WHY? surely it's about the music, not the format.

I think the thing to bear in mind is, Saturday night, get all spruced up, £20 worth of petrol in the car, hour's drive, £7 to get in, same again for the first round ... You see where this is heading? If I'm dj'ing at a do that people have travelled to and paid to get in to, they deserve to hear the real thing and not some £6.99 best of cd my neighbour could buy from Woolworths ....

OVO ONLY if it's a paid do.. A freeb in your local pub function room that shuts at 12, play wtf you like.. Thats the way I see it.

[Guest Bicks]

You're perfectly entitled to be confused 'Man of similar name'

To be honest when I arrived on here I was of the opinion that it doesn't matter what medium it is on it's the music that counts and used to happily play anything I wanted on any format (granted on a different scene) whenever I played out

But after a helpful push in the right direction by the good people on here (and trust me Bicks, the majority may seem miserable and unwelcoming but they are just passionate and pussycats in real life) I can now say i'm firmly in the OVO(Original Vinyl Only) camp

It is still the music that counts...and I didn't decide to collect original vinyl because I was told to by Soul knowitalls...I started because I began to enjoy collecting originals

I think the policy of OVO at the more established Nighters etc is a great tradition which has been carried on for years...there are alot of venues out there (the more crossover/younger nights) that still play all sorts of mediums...

I suppose if you think about it...it's looking at it more from a collectors standpoint than as DJs on this scene...the clues in the title 'Rare Soul'

Just because i'm in the OVO camp though i'm not as unforgiving as some of the older lot on here...couldn't give a toss what medium others play their music on...doesn't interest me outside of my decisions and what I chose to purchase musically.

You've probably opened the proverbial can of worms starting this thread as this is a subject that seems to never die on this site

PS. I have one boot in my record box 'Tammi Terrell - All I Do Is Think About You' but it was unreleased so fook em

Cheers.

[Stevie]

Please don't think I'm trying to be smart or clever, I'm not, I'm just curious about something.

I've already had a volley of abuse from some members on here due to my 'lack of understanding' so please be gentle.

First of all I must say that I have never DJ'd nor have I any intention to do so but this thing about 'originals' versus re-issues versus cd's really has me confused (the bootleg bit I can sort of grasp).

I've collected records since I was about 12 (30 years), sadly not Northern Soul stuff, and whilst I love my records I am just as happy to hear them off cd as I am off vinyl, although I do agree there is something special about putting a record onto a turntable and having to look after it.

I can also understand that it's always nicer to own an original than a re-issue, all those re-issue albums with that little red 'fame' logo in the corner make me shudder when I see them

I think what really puzzles me is the DJ bit. There are comments on here like "i would boycott any event that played boots or cd's".

WHY? surely it's about the music, not the format. As the Gordy label proclaims "It's what's in the grooves that counts" (i.e. not the grooves themselves)

As you can appreciate I was too young for the 70's early 80's heyday of the scene where cd's weren't available or even invented so obviously everything was off vinyl, is it a throwback to those days?

Feel free to wax lyrical, I really would like to understand why it is so important, and please don't just say (as I saw on another thread when somebody asked a similar question) "if you don't know now you never will, and I'm not going to explain", that really doesn't help.

It takes time, effort and money to build a good collection. Have a look at this thread https://www.soul-source.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=85807 . Box of 150 records - value £40k and extremely difficult to replace. At a guess bootleg equivalent value say £750 max? Imagine being the owner of such a collection waiting to do your spot but the three fellas djing before you have played most of what you were going to play off pressings or cd's.

The discovery of rare records has always been at the hub of this scene. The privelege of playing such records should remain with those who own them on original vinyl.

Edited November 18, 2008 by Stevie

[Guest Richard Bergman]

Bicks & Beeks

Sounds like a kids tv show.

You guys should have a conference call

[Guest soulmaguk]

Please don't think I'm trying to be smart or clever, I'm not, I'm just curious about something.

I've already had a volley of abuse from some members on here due to my 'lack of understanding' so please be gentle.

First of all I must say that I have never DJ'd nor have I any intention to do so but this thing about 'originals' versus re-issues versus cd's really has me confused (the bootleg bit I can sort of grasp).

I've collected records since I was about 12 (30 years), sadly not Northern Soul stuff, and whilst I love my records I am just as happy to hear them off cd as I am off vinyl, although I do agree there is something special about putting a record onto a turntable and having to look after it.

I can also understand that it's always nicer to own an original than a re-issue, all those re-issue albums with that little red 'fame' logo in the corner make me shudder when I see them

I think what really puzzles me is the DJ bit. There are comments on here like "i would boycott any event that played boots or cd's".

WHY? surely it's about the music, not the format. As the Gordy label proclaims "It's what's in the grooves that counts" (i.e. not the grooves themselves)

As you can appreciate I was too young for the 70's early 80's heyday of the scene where cd's weren't available or even invented so obviously everything was off vinyl, is it a throwback to those days?

Feel free to wax lyrical, I really would like to understand why it is so important, and please don't just say (as I saw on another thread when somebody asked a similar question) "if you don't know now you never will, and I'm not going to explain", that really doesn't help.

Maybe its just my ears, but 99 times out of a 100...originals do sound better. Cds are too perfect and seem to lose data or depth on output, bootlegs tend to peak and distort on the poor quality re-press.

There's your answer

Jock Mitchell (BSc Hons Computer Science)

Edited November 18, 2008 by soulmaguk

[Guest Richard Bergman]

My lord this forum is getting dull. Same old questions with a slightly different spin on them before the inevitable same old answers appear below.

Edited November 18, 2008 by Richard Bergman

[Guest Bicks]

It takes time, effort and money to build a good collection. Have a look at this thread https://www.soul-source.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=85807 . Box of 150 records - value £40k and extremely difficult to replace. At a guess bootleg equivalent value say £750 max? Imagine being the owner of such a collection waiting to do your spot but the three fellas djing before you have played most of what you were going to play off pressings or cd's.

The discovery of rare records has always been at the hub of this scene. The privelege of playing such records should remain with those who own them on original vinyl.

Without wanting to get all psychoanalytical about this, I guess it's the passion that I don't understand, the sort of passion you only get from being there and being involved in something, I've never been that passionate about anything really (family apart) that if someone questions it the floodgates open.

I've seen a similar passion in football fans but when asked to explain their feelings just say "well it's the football innit", I was hoping that Soul Source members might be a little more eloquent.

[Guest Bicks]

My lord this forum is getting dull. Same old questions with a slightly different spin on them before the inevitable same old answers appear below.

My apologies Richard, are new members not allowed to post on here? Or do we have to trawl the archive before being allowed?

[Guest Richard Bergman]

My apologies Richard, are new members not allowed to post on here? Or do we have to trawl the archive before being allowed?

It's me who should apologise. I'm having a bad day. Ignore me , most do.

It's just seems that week after week your hit by a sense of deja vu on this forum.

[Simsy]

My apologies Richard, are new members not allowed to post on here? Or do we have to trawl the archive before being allowed?

Of Course they are Bicks.

Richard's just a bit miffed off as we have had this topic many times before. There again, he's a smart guy, so he could always think up some interesting new topics for us to get our teeth into.

[Guest Richard Bergman]

Of Course they are Bicks.

Richard's just a bit miffed off as we have had this topic many times before. There again, he's a smart guy, so he could always think up some interesting new topics for us to get our teeth into.

[Guest Beeks]

It's just seems that week after week your hit by a sense of deja vu on this forum.

It's just seems that week after week your hit by a sense of deja vu on this forum.

It's just seems that week after week your hit by a sense of deja vu on this forum.

[Stevie]

Without wanting to get all psychoanalytical about this, I guess it's the passion that I don't understand, the sort of passion you only get from being there and being involved in something, I've never been that passionate about anything really (family apart) that if someone questions it the floodgates open.

I've seen a similar passion in football fans but when asked to explain their feelings just say "well it's the football innit", I was hoping that Soul Source members might be a little more eloquent.

I apologise for being neither fluent nor persuasive in my reply.

Will try harder next time.

[Spacehopper]

Without wanting to get all psychoanalytical about this, I guess it's the passion that I don't understand, the sort of passion you only get from being there and being involved in something, I've never been that passionate about anything really (family apart) that if someone questions it the floodgates open.

I've seen a similar passion in football fans but when asked to explain their feelings just say "well it's the football innit", I was hoping that Soul Source members might be a little more eloquent.

WHAT ?!!!....you poor man, i feel very sorry for you (and your mrs ) if you have never had a passion for anything !..whether it be vinyl,dancing,any style of music or even hornby train sets !!

my girlfriend had a poster on her wall once with a quote (sorry cant remember who by)....'NOTHING in this world has ever been achieved without passion'.....think about it,very true

[Dave Moore]

It's a valid question from someone who has just discovered the music and the varying factions of people who collect records on this scene. Fair play, there's never gonna be a 'definitive' answer and the dreaded 'DJ' word has already reared it's head. There are many different collectors and many will have their own reasons for the OVO passion. From a purely personal perspective, here's mine:

As a non-DJing collector of OVO for all my adult life, (and we are the majority of collectors in my opinion, although on SS there does seem to be a disproportionate number people who regard themselves as DJs). my love of vinyl has nothing to with 'venues', nothing to do with what other people do nor indeed has it anything really to do with a 'scene' of any description. The "scene", doesn't enter into the equation. It's about music and the records they were made on. It's about appreciating the real thing as it was originally intended. It's about the whole ethos of searching out what the artists/writers/arrangers and producers created at the time on the format they created it for. The music may well sound just as good as an MP3 download, pops and crackles included, but holding the original vinyl in your hands 40 years after it was created, checking the publishing company and finding the names Ala King, Jobete, Harthon etc scribed on the label is a thrill that you either 'get' or you don't. The different types of releases, the demos, the promos, the test pressings. The cheap 10 quidder that turns into a massive rarity when the promo is considered? Or vice versa. The stories that each ands every one of the vintage 45s has lived through, be it sat on a shelf in a radio library or been handed down from person to person are fascinating. Discovering a local label that produced the well known copy, tracking down the artist of your favourite tracks and speaking about their careers, finding a pic sleeve that encapsulates the era, hearing a cracking song for the first time and discovering you've already got one, it's a B side!! and hunting down that elusive record that you've searched for decades when it finally makes it's way to your shelf are all feelings that you either 'get' or you don't. They don't have to cost the earth, most hard core collectors improve the quality and condition of their records as their collection grows. VG+ turns to MINT. Issue turns to DEMO, some even collect US AND UK 45s of the same release! Some even collect the US and UK Demos AND Issues of each release! For some the music and the records are the reason d'etre for being a soul fan, for many others it's the dancing, the venues, the social, and many other things but for the OVO collector...that's all peripheral. It's the music on the original vinyl that is the catalyst.

Many collectors will quote the traditional 'ethos' of the scene as their reason for collecting 'real' records and that is also something I understand but not the reason I collect. You'd have to ask some else about that reason for collecting.

As for the bootleg fraternity, I can't answer for them as I struggle to see what the attraction is of owning a snide of 'anything'. I doubt whether many people buy bootlegs and proudly store them at home on their shelves only to drag a few boxes down when mates come round. "Hey check this out...I've just found a "Fabulous Jades on Soul Galore!" Doesn't quite have the right ring does it? I have no source to back my theory up apart from my own experiences, but I suspect most bootlegs are bought by the said 'DJs' I allured to at the beginning.

I think with the advent of the internet and the sweeping return of thousands of soul-fans to 'the scene' about a dozen years ago has led to an explosion of people who collect records but not for any of the reasons above. In fact, I know it has...I know many of them.

Many non collectors of OVO seem to think that most collectors gather in darken corners, poring over the matrix details of some obscure Ohio local release that plods along like C/W and miss the point of the music. In my experience, it's quite the opposite. Collecting adds another dimension to being a soul fan. If anything collectors seem to celebrate the music with more abandon than non collectors (although that might be the company I keep!). It doesn't matter if you collect 10 quid records or 10 grand records, it's if you collect that's all that matters.

I wonder if we could get a bootleg collector to add their perspective? Are there people who collect bootlegs to play at home? I know there are some collectors who play bootlegs to protect their originals (WTF?), and there are collectors who collect boots alongside their other 'runs' of labels, and there are definitley DJs who fill gaps in their playboxes within bootlegs but are there collectors of bootlegs ONLY?

[Jaco]

It's a valid question from someone who has just discovered the music and the varying factions of people who collect records on this scene. Fair play, there's never gonna be a 'definitive' answer and the dreaded 'DJ' word has already reared it's head. There are many different collectors and many will have their own reasons for the OVO passion. From a purely personal perspective, here's mine:

As a non-DJing collector of OVO for all my adult life, (and we are the majority of collectors in my opinion, although on SS there does seem to be a disproportionate number people who regard themselves as DJs). my love of vinyl has nothing to with 'venues', nothing to do with what other people do nor indeed has it anything really to do with a 'scene' of any description. The "scene", doesn't enter into the equation. It's about music and the records they were made on. It's about appreciating the real thing as it was originally intended. It's about the whole ethos of searching out what the artists/writers/arrangers and producers created at the time on the format they created it for. The music may well sound just as good as an MP3 download, pops and crackles included, but holding the original vinyl in your hands 40 years after it was created, checking the publishing company and finding the names Ala King, Jobete, Harthon etc scribed on the label is a thrill that you either 'get' or you don't. The different types of releases, the demos, the promos, the test pressings. The cheap 10 quidder that turns into a massive rarity when the promo is considered? Or vice versa. The stories that each ands every one of the vintage 45s has lived through, be it sat on a shelf in a radio library or been handed down from person to person are fascinating. Discovering a local label that produced the well known copy, tracking down the artist of your favourite tracks and speaking about their careers, finding a pic sleeve that encapsulates the era, hearing a cracking song for the first time and discovering you've already got one, it's a B side!! and hunting down that elusive record that you've searched for decades when it finally makes it's way to your shelf are all feelings that you either 'get' or you don't. They don't have to cost the earth, most hard core collectors improve the quality and condition of their records as their collection grows. VG+ turns to MINT. Issue turns to DEMO, some even collect US AND UK 45s of the same release! Some even collect the US and UK Demos AND Issues of each release! For some the music and the records are the reason d'etre for being a soul fan, for many others it's the dancing, the venues, the social, and many other things but for the OVO collector...that's all peripheral. It's the music on the original vinyl that is the catalyst.

Many collectors will quote the traditional 'ethos' of the scene as their reason for collecting 'real' records and that is also something I understand but not the reason I collect. You'd have to ask some else about that reason for collecting.

As for the bootleg fraternity, I can't answer for them as I struggle to see what the attraction is of owning a snide of 'anything'. I doubt whether many people buy bootlegs and proudly store them at home on their shelves only to drag a few boxes down when mates come round. "Hey check this out...I've just found a "Fabulous Jades on Soul Galore!" Doesn't quite have the right ring does it? I have no source to back my theory up apart from my own experiences, but I suspect most bootlegs are bought by the said 'DJs' I allured to at the beginning.

I think with the advent of the internet and the sweeping return of thousands of soul-fans to 'the scene' about a dozen years ago has led to an explosion of people who collect records but not for any of the reasons above. In fact, I know it has...I know many of them.

Many non collectors of OVO seem to think that most collectors gather in darken corners, poring over the matrix details of some obscure Ohio local release that plods along like C/W and miss the point of the music. In my experience, it's quite the opposite. Collecting adds another dimension to being a soul fan. If anything collectors seem to celebrate the music with more abandon than non collectors (although that might be the company I keep!). It doesn't matter if you collect 10 quid records or 10 grand records, it's if you collect that's all that matters.

I wonder if we could get a bootleg collector to add their perspective? Are there people who collect bootlegs to play at home? I know there are some collectors who play bootlegs to protect their originals (WTF?), and there are collectors who collect boots alongside their other 'runs' of labels, and there are definitley DJs who fill gaps in their playboxes within bootlegs but are there collectors of bootlegs ONLY?

Despite the fact that Dave knows nothing about football (Evidence : he supports Burnley and thinks Roy Keane is a wa**er) his eloquent assessment of what it really feels like to be a vinyl addict, sums it up perfectly.

[Guest Beeks]

and thinks Roy Keane is a wa**er)

He sounds perfectly sane to me...Roy Keane is the most widely derided BOOT on the football scene...Original Players Only

[Guest]

Without wanting to get all psychoanalytical about this, I guess it's the passion that I don't understand, the sort of passion you only get from being there and being involved in something, I've never been that passionate about anything really (family apart) that if someone questions it the floodgates open.

I've seen a similar passion in football fans but when asked to explain their feelings just say "well it's the football innit", I was hoping that Soul Source members might be a little more eloquent.

LOL.. Bicks, have you ever been a collector?. did you never say collect football stickers as a kid?..

Jayne.x

[Jez Jones]

It's a valid question from someone who has just discovered the music and the varying factions of people who collect records on this scene. Fair play, there's never gonna be a 'definitive' answer and the dreaded 'DJ' word has already reared it's head. There are many different collectors and many will have their own reasons for the OVO passion. From a purely personal perspective, here's mine:

As a non-DJing collector of OVO for all my adult life, (and we are the majority of collectors in my opinion, although on SS there does seem to be a disproportionate number people who regard themselves as DJs). my love of vinyl has nothing to with 'venues', nothing to do with what other people do nor indeed has it anything really to do with a 'scene' of any description. The "scene", doesn't enter into the equation. It's about music and the records they were made on. It's about appreciating the real thing as it was originally intended. It's about the whole ethos of searching out what the artists/writers/arrangers and producers created at the time on the format they created it for. The music may well sound just as good as an MP3 download, pops and crackles included, but holding the original vinyl in your hands 40 years after it was created, checking the publishing company and finding the names Ala King, Jobete, Harthon etc scribed on the label is a thrill that you either 'get' or you don't. The different types of releases, the demos, the promos, the test pressings. The cheap 10 quidder that turns into a massive rarity when the promo is considered? Or vice versa. The stories that each ands every one of the vintage 45s has lived through, be it sat on a shelf in a radio library or been handed down from person to person are fascinating. Discovering a local label that produced the well known copy, tracking down the artist of your favourite tracks and speaking about their careers, finding a pic sleeve that encapsulates the era, hearing a cracking song for the first time and discovering you've already got one, it's a B side!! and hunting down that elusive record that you've searched for decades when it finally makes it's way to your shelf are all feelings that you either 'get' or you don't. They don't have to cost the earth, most hard core collectors improve the quality and condition of their records as their collection grows. VG+ turns to MINT. Issue turns to DEMO, some even collect US AND UK 45s of the same release! Some even collect the US and UK Demos AND Issues of each release! For some the music and the records are the reason d'etre for being a soul fan, for many others it's the dancing, the venues, the social, and many other things but for the OVO collector...that's all peripheral. It's the music on the original vinyl that is the catalyst.

Many collectors will quote the traditional 'ethos' of the scene as their reason for collecting 'real' records and that is also something I understand but not the reason I collect. You'd have to ask some else about that reason for collecting.

As for the bootleg fraternity, I can't answer for them as I struggle to see what the attraction is of owning a snide of 'anything'. I doubt whether many people buy bootlegs and proudly store them at home on their shelves only to drag a few boxes down when mates come round. "Hey check this out...I've just found a "Fabulous Jades on Soul Galore!" Doesn't quite have the right ring does it? I have no source to back my theory up apart from my own experiences, but I suspect most bootlegs are bought by the said 'DJs' I allured to at the beginning.

I think with the advent of the internet and the sweeping return of thousands of soul-fans to 'the scene' about a dozen years ago has led to an explosion of people who collect records but not for any of the reasons above. In fact, I know it has...I know many of them.

Many non collectors of OVO seem to think that most collectors gather in darken corners, poring over the matrix details of some obscure Ohio local release that plods along like C/W and miss the point of the music. In my experience, it's quite the opposite. Collecting adds another dimension to being a soul fan. If anything collectors seem to celebrate the music with more abandon than non collectors (although that might be the company I keep!). It doesn't matter if you collect 10 quid records or 10 grand records, it's if you collect that's all that matters.

I wonder if we could get a bootleg collector to add their perspective? Are there people who collect bootlegs to play at home? I know there are some collectors who play bootlegs to protect their originals (WTF?), and there are collectors who collect boots alongside their other 'runs' of labels, and there are definitley DJs who fill gaps in their playboxes within bootlegs but are there collectors of bootlegs ONLY?

I haven't collected since the '70's but I can relate/recall totally the above. Amazing how some things never change--- quest for demos, frowned upon 'boots', keeping an eye out for certain publishers. the tenacious pursuit of a record.

Even though its a personal perspective Dave ,a lot rings true to my memory and I suspect many more also. Its about having 'pride in your box' if yer know what I mean

Excellent post Dave if I may say so

[Prophonics 2029]

Without wanting to get all psychoanalytical about this, I guess it's the passion that I don't understand, the sort of passion you only get from being there and being involved in something, I've never been that passionate about anything really (family apart) that if someone questions it the floodgates open.

I've seen a similar passion in football fans but when asked to explain their feelings just say "well it's the football innit", I was hoping that Soul Source members might be a little more eloquent.

You have nearly answered your own question hear, what if you go to see the B-team play cause your team is playing away, is it still the same buzz.

If you have danced to a record for 30 years on and off and not every day would you be happy with sloppy seconds.

Its also a natural progression in the NS scene, you want it all, search for that record and the realise you have bought a load of old rubbish not really worth the plastic its printed on but you pay the 10 or 40 for the reissue to have it to play. You then discover every one else has a copy and a few have a real copy that have a nice label, sound better and are a lot older than the poor quality you have.

Some people collect antiques to furnish their homes and some are happy with MDF from B&Q, that could be you mate. its not a crime yet but we are working on it, look at the poor artists who never get a bean from the bootlegings of the world is that fair.

Edited November 18, 2008 by Prophonics 2029

[Guest soulmaguk]

It's a valid question from someone who has just discovered the music and the varying factions of people who collect records on this scene. Fair play, there's never gonna be a 'definitive' answer and the dreaded 'DJ' word has already reared it's head. There are many different collectors and many will have their own reasons for the OVO passion. From a purely personal perspective, here's mine:

As a non-DJing collector of OVO for all my adult life, (and we are the majority of collectors in my opinion, although on SS there does seem to be a disproportionate number people who regard themselves as DJs). my love of vinyl has nothing to with 'venues', nothing to do with what other people do nor indeed has it anything really to do with a 'scene' of any description. The "scene", doesn't enter into the equation. It's about music and the records they were made on. It's about appreciating the real thing as it was originally intended. It's about the whole ethos of searching out what the artists/writers/arrangers and producers created at the time on the format they created it for. The music may well sound just as good as an MP3 download, pops and crackles included, but holding the original vinyl in your hands 40 years after it was created, checking the publishing company and finding the names Ala King, Jobete, Harthon etc scribed on the label is a thrill that you either 'get' or you don't. The different types of releases, the demos, the promos, the test pressings. The cheap 10 quidder that turns into a massive rarity when the promo is considered? Or vice versa. The stories that each ands every one of the vintage 45s has lived through, be it sat on a shelf in a radio library or been handed down from person to person are fascinating. Discovering a local label that produced the well known copy, tracking down the artist of your favourite tracks and speaking about their careers, finding a pic sleeve that encapsulates the era, hearing a cracking song for the first time and discovering you've already got one, it's a B side!! and hunting down that elusive record that you've searched for decades when it finally makes it's way to your shelf are all feelings that you either 'get' or you don't. They don't have to cost the earth, most hard core collectors improve the quality and condition of their records as their collection grows. VG+ turns to MINT. Issue turns to DEMO, some even collect US AND UK 45s of the same release! Some even collect the US and UK Demos AND Issues of each release! For some the music and the records are the reason d'etre for being a soul fan, for many others it's the dancing, the venues, the social, and many other things but for the OVO collector...that's all peripheral. It's the music on the original vinyl that is the catalyst.

Many collectors will quote the traditional 'ethos' of the scene as their reason for collecting 'real' records and that is also something I understand but not the reason I collect. You'd have to ask some else about that reason for collecting.

As for the bootleg fraternity, I can't answer for them as I struggle to see what the attraction is of owning a snide of 'anything'. I doubt whether many people buy bootlegs and proudly store them at home on their shelves only to drag a few boxes down when mates come round. "Hey check this out...I've just found a "Fabulous Jades on Soul Galore!" Doesn't quite have the right ring does it? I have no source to back my theory up apart from my own experiences, but I suspect most bootlegs are bought by the said 'DJs' I allured to at the beginning.

I think with the advent of the internet and the sweeping return of thousands of soul-fans to 'the scene' about a dozen years ago has led to an explosion of people who collect records but not for any of the reasons above. In fact, I know it has...I know many of them.

Many non collectors of OVO seem to think that most collectors gather in darken corners, poring over the matrix details of some obscure Ohio local release that plods along like C/W and miss the point of the music. In my experience, it's quite the opposite. Collecting adds another dimension to being a soul fan. If anything collectors seem to celebrate the music with more abandon than non collectors (although that might be the company I keep!). It doesn't matter if you collect 10 quid records or 10 grand records, it's if you collect that's all that matters.

I wonder if we could get a bootleg collector to add their perspective? Are there people who collect bootlegs to play at home? I know there are some collectors who play bootlegs to protect their originals (WTF?), and there are collectors who collect boots alongside their other 'runs' of labels, and there are definitley DJs who fill gaps in their playboxes within bootlegs but are there collectors of bootlegs ONLY?

The high-lighted words may not be true! in fact the MP3 is a stack algorithm. Which suggests what it is. Data that is stacked on top of it's self, compressing the file into smaller bits and bytes and thus losing quality or breadth of sound.

say cheese.

[Guest KEN-SOUL]

Please don't think I'm trying to be smart or clever, I'm not, I'm just curious about something.

I've already had a volley of abuse from some members on here due to my 'lack of understanding' so please be gentle.

First of all I must say that I have never DJ'd nor have I any intention to do so but this thing about 'originals' versus re-issues versus cd's really has me confused (the bootleg bit I can sort of grasp).

I've collected records since I was about 12 (30 years), sadly not Northern Soul stuff, and whilst I love my records I am just as happy to hear them off cd as I am off vinyl, although I do agree there is something special about putting a record onto a turntable and having to look after it.

I can also understand that it's always nicer to own an original than a re-issue, all those re-issue albums with that little red 'fame' logo in the corner make me shudder when I see them

NORTHERN SOUL IS THE PINNACLE OF MUSIC. HAVING THE ORIGINAL MASTER... THE HOLY GRAIL... THE TRANSMUTATION OF BASE MAN INTO PURE SPIRIT.. THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE MY FRIEND... THE HOLY GRAIL!

I think what really puzzles me is the DJ bit. There are comments on here like "i would boycott any event that played boots or cd's".

WHY? surely it's about the music, not the format. As the Gordy label proclaims "It's what's in the grooves that counts" (i.e. not the grooves themselves)

As you can appreciate I was too young for the 70's early 80's heyday of the scene where cd's weren't available or even invented so obviously everything was off vinyl, is it a throwback to those days?

Feel free to wax lyrical, I really would like to understand why it is so important, and please don't just say (as I saw on another thread when somebody asked a similar question) "if you don't know now you never will, and I'm not going to explain", that really doesn't help.

[paultp]

Insisting on original vinyl keeps record prices high.

Original vinyl has history and personality, the people that insist on the playing of OVO appreciate that history and personality and appreciate the toil and sometimes sacrifice that goes into a box of records by both the collector and the artists. In the same way the box of records frequently reflects the history and personality of the person playing them.

Its a bit of a journey really.

Ooops! I think I've talked myself out of selling up again.

[Guest Bicks]

It's a valid question from someone who has just discovered the music and the varying factions of people who collect records on this scene. Fair play, there's never gonna be a 'definitive' answer and the dreaded 'DJ' word has already reared it's head. There are many different collectors and many will have their own reasons for the OVO passion. From a purely personal perspective, here's mine:

As a non-DJing collector of OVO for all my adult life, (and we are the majority of collectors in my opinion, although on SS there does seem to be a disproportionate number people who regard themselves as DJs). my love of vinyl has nothing to with 'venues', nothing to do with what other people do nor indeed has it anything really to do with a 'scene' of any description. The "scene", doesn't enter into the equation. It's about music and the records they were made on. It's about appreciating the real thing as it was originally intended. It's about the whole ethos of searching out what the artists/writers/arrangers and producers created at the time on the format they created it for. The music may well sound just as good as an MP3 download, pops and crackles included, but holding the original vinyl in your hands 40 years after it was created, checking the publishing company and finding the names Ala King, Jobete, Harthon etc scribed on the label is a thrill that you either 'get' or you don't. The different types of releases, the demos, the promos, the test pressings. The cheap 10 quidder that turns into a massive rarity when the promo is considered? Or vice versa. The stories that each ands every one of the vintage 45s has lived through, be it sat on a shelf in a radio library or been handed down from person to person are fascinating. Discovering a local label that produced the well known copy, tracking down the artist of your favourite tracks and speaking about their careers, finding a pic sleeve that encapsulates the era, hearing a cracking song for the first time and discovering you've already got one, it's a B side!! and hunting down that elusive record that you've searched for decades when it finally makes it's way to your shelf are all feelings that you either 'get' or you don't. They don't have to cost the earth, most hard core collectors improve the quality and condition of their records as their collection grows. VG+ turns to MINT. Issue turns to DEMO, some even collect US AND UK 45s of the same release! Some even collect the US and UK Demos AND Issues of each release! For some the music and the records are the reason d'etre for being a soul fan, for many others it's the dancing, the venues, the social, and many other things but for the OVO collector...that's all peripheral. It's the music on the original vinyl that is the catalyst.

Many collectors will quote the traditional 'ethos' of the scene as their reason for collecting 'real' records and that is also something I understand but not the reason I collect. You'd have to ask some else about that reason for collecting.

As for the bootleg fraternity, I can't answer for them as I struggle to see what the attraction is of owning a snide of 'anything'. I doubt whether many people buy bootlegs and proudly store them at home on their shelves only to drag a few boxes down when mates come round. "Hey check this out...I've just found a "Fabulous Jades on Soul Galore!" Doesn't quite have the right ring does it? I have no source to back my theory up apart from my own experiences, but I suspect most bootlegs are bought by the said 'DJs' I allured to at the beginning.

I think with the advent of the internet and the sweeping return of thousands of soul-fans to 'the scene' about a dozen years ago has led to an explosion of people who collect records but not for any of the reasons above. In fact, I know it has...I know many of them.

Many non collectors of OVO seem to think that most collectors gather in darken corners, poring over the matrix details of some obscure Ohio local release that plods along like C/W and miss the point of the music. In my experience, it's quite the opposite. Collecting adds another dimension to being a soul fan. If anything collectors seem to celebrate the music with more abandon than non collectors (although that might be the company I keep!). It doesn't matter if you collect 10 quid records or 10 grand records, it's if you collect that's all that matters.

I wonder if we could get a bootleg collector to add their perspective? Are there people who collect bootlegs to play at home? I know there are some collectors who play bootlegs to protect their originals (WTF?), and there are collectors who collect boots alongside their other 'runs' of labels, and there are definitley DJs who fill gaps in their playboxes within bootlegs but are there collectors of bootlegs ONLY?

BRILLIANT....Most of what I've read on this forum has been bitching and back biting and whilst some of it is probably tongue in cheek banter between friends I was starting to wonder whether to just bin it and go elsewhere, but when someone writes about something they love like that it makes we want to stick around and read more, much more interesting to read than all the sniping that seems to go on.

And just to clear one other thing up, I didn't mean I never had any passion (my wife is quite happy thanks ), I meant I've never had the amount of passion it appears many people on here have.

[Guest soulmaguk]

This may answer some more of your questions on vinyl versus cd/re-press and mp3. click on the link Bicks. https://www.linnrecords.com/linn-formats.aspx

[Guest JJMMWGDuPree]

Seems to me there are two separations here. DJs and non-DJs, and collectors and everyone else.

As a non-DJ (Except for about quarter of an hour helping a mate out, but we won't talk about that.... ) I would be really pissed off if I thought that the people I was paying to play me music were choosing it on the basis of whether it was an ultra rare original rather than if it was any fargling good. I personally think that vinyl sounds best on my system at home, but through a megawonga PA system with an aural enhancer and a big bottom everything sounds the same, I can't tell an Mp3 from a CD from vinyl from cassette and I'm more interested in the music than in someone's personal record collection if that record collection is being artificially stunted by the need for OVO.

As a collector I can well understand the needs of those who must have the original at all costs, but I'm a collector of sound rather than any particular media, I try to avoid ultra expensive originals if there's an alternative, by which I mean give me British vinyl over US vinyl any day of the week. I won't touch boots* on principle and I don't really like tape much but if I can buy a CD full of material which I might just like and still get the track I'm after for less than the price of an original way overpriced by my standards and probably pressed on substandard vinyl, yup, I'll take the CD thanks.

* There is actually a legally defined difference between pirates, bootlegs, and counterfeits. Pirates steal orignals to sell on, bootleggers manufacture their own alternatives, and counterfeiters manufacture their own copies which they pass off as originals. In this case what we're calling boots are actually pirates, the original sound being the thing of value stolen.

You learn something new everyday.

[Guest Bicks]

This may answer some more of your questions on vinyl versus cd/re-press and mp3. click on the link Bicks. https://www.linnrecords.com/linn-formats.aspx

Thanks for that. I'm guessing you are gonna know this, and I almost dare not ask, but, what's the difference between vinyl and styrene and how do you tell (I saw something on another thread about the two but didn't understand)?

[Dave Moore]

Seems to me there are two separations here. DJs and non-DJs, and collectors and everyone else.

As a non-DJ (Except for about quarter of an hour helping a mate out, but we won't talk about that.... ) I would be really pissed off if I thought that the people I was paying to play me music were choosing it on the basis of whether it was an ultra rare original rather than if it was any fargling good. I personally think that vinyl sounds best on my system at home, but through a megawonga PA system with an aural enhancer and a big bottom everything sounds the same, I can't tell an Mp3 from a CD from vinyl from cassette and I'm more interested in the music than in someone's personal record collection if that record collection is being artificially stunted by the need for OVO.

As a collector I can well understand the needs of those who must have the original at all costs, but I'm a collector of sound rather than any particular media, I try to avoid ultra expensive originals if there's an alternative, by which I mean give me British vinyl over US vinyl any day of the week. I won't touch boots* on principle and I don't really like tape much but if I can buy a CD full of material which I might just like and still get the track I'm after for less than the price of an original way overpriced by my standards and probably pressed on substandard vinyl, yup, I'll take the CD thanks.

/quote]

Great post and one that addressed the point about the 'DJ world' better than I ever could. It's a good point about many DJs preferring rarity over quality but in my experience it's the dance-floors that dictate the popularity of records on 'the scene'. You've only to look at the Frank Popp gubbins, the Duffy fiasco or the Tribute to...palarva for 45s that support that theory. As the soul scene blew up again numbers wise in the nineties back came the Muriel Day type of stuff. It was inevitable. With a larger number of people attending there comes the difficulty in keeping them all happy when they've split into 10 different factions.

As for the "i would boycott any event that played boots or cd's" observation in Bicks' original question, I suppose I fall into that category as a rule. The reason being that the people who play this type of format are usually too lazy to dig any deeper than the usual monthly fare time after time and I'd rather listen to a collector/DJ that had the depth of collection/knowledge to entertain my particular musical gene. I suppose that's just personal preference.

Bicks - Styrene is a look a like vinyl substitute that is brittle, snaps quite easily and records made from this material usually have paper labels that are glued to the vinyl. It also has a shelf life for your record and will over time and lots of plays deteriorate until finally the music will be overtaken by the dreaded styrene hiss. Vinyl however is reasonably flexible, doesn't snap as easy, and more importantly if treated with care will outlast you! The labels of vinyl recors are usually moulded within the material and you can't 'pick' them off like the styrene ones.

Edited November 18, 2008 by Dave Moore

[Guest john s]

Thanks for that. I'm guessing you are gonna know this, and I almost dare not ask, but, what's the difference between vinyl and styrene and how do you tell (I saw something on another thread about the two but didn't understand)?

Vinyl and styrene are two different plastics used for pressing records - styrene was used a lot for 45s in the US, especially. Partly because they were a couple of cents less per unit to manufacture, which starts to make a huge difference if you're selling hundreds of thousands of copies - and partly because different plants were set up to use the different plastics. Vinyl records are 'stamped' by applying pressure to hot plastic, styrene are made by injecting hot plastic into a hollow mould - exactly the same way Airfix kits were made.

Styrene 45s are lighter, less flexible and can be brittle.

They sound fine initially, but can wear a lot faster than vinyl 45s, especially if played with a heavy needle, and are notorious for heavy wear at the start.

As far as I know, styrene wasn't used in the UK or mainland Europe for manufacturing records - but I could well be wrong there!

[Spacehopper]

BRILLIANT....Most of what I've read on this forum has been bitching and back biting and whilst some of it is probably tongue in cheek banter between friends I was starting to wonder whether to just bin it and go elsewhere, but when someone writes about something they love like that it makes we want to stick around and read more, much more interesting to read than all the sniping that seems to go on.

And just to clear one other thing up, I didn't mean I never had any passion (my wife is quite happy thanks ), I meant I've never had the amount of passion it appears many people on here have.

glad to hear it !...hope i didnt offend ...the wife bit was tongue in cheek....ok the passion some have on here is mental but just couldnt believe or understand the way i read your post as someone never having a passion for anything...happy to misunderstand you .....

and please dont be turned off yes there is a lot of backbiting at times but there is also a lot of decent people and interesting threads on this site....

[Guest Carl Dixon]

I think it has much to do about the 'story' of the record, going back to the conception of the song, how the session was financed, how the artist aspired to the vocals, who played on what, where was the studio etc. Knowing that people struggled to make the song work and the session take place against all the odds, gives inspiration to others...like it did to me. The negativity of the business back in those days saying it would not happen and yet, when the records eventually turned up here, 5 and ten years later they already had some magic sprinkled all over them with stories like this. I think having the Bay City Rollers and The Rubettes in your lugs on popluar radio and TV all the time in those days, it was a refreshing change to play a record just picked up for 10p from the Hull Fair called 'This thing called love' by Johnny Wyatt. Who was he, who wrote the song, was it THE Barry White, did it ever chart, if not why, who were they trying to sound like, is this the only copy, who pressed it, where was the plant, who designed the label, are there others on the same label (picked up on the same day 'I got love'/Violla Wills) etc?

There are still stories connected to the records, but the older the track, there is more mystery and respect and it is put on a pedestal to champion others along the way. And rightly so, but I wonder what great stories we miss because of the same prejudice as yesteryear with efforts of todays music? Can you imagine somebody today struggling to finace a session and making it against all the odds, and ending up with a master that resides on a shelf at home just waiting to be exploited? The owner has spoken to a number of bespoke labels to try and generate interest to recieve no return phone calls, emails or anything? Ultimatley, the owner will have had to write the songs, financed the session, registered the songs copyright, press and distribute the records and pay royalties to those contracted to receive something. But, the story is priceless and along the way there are classic quotes from those who have faith in the finished material and those that do not.

That is why some of the records are priceless, it's the developing story that accompanies the sound recording. The instruments may be out of tune, the vocalist a little flat, a weak melody, mono, but once on the turntable you are playing a little history! It's like cracking open a vintage wine, not some New World Chardonnay with wooden chips steeping in it for the oak flavour with a screw cap 'for convenience'.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Carl Dixon

[Citizen P]

Without going into the History of the World Part 2,

This is all you need to know.

If you are not passionate about format and want to possess any tune for Your own listening pleasure buy whatever the f*ck you want and get on with it.

What you should never ever do is,

take all those dolly mixtures and start up your own night, cos you got what the people want, and screw up the Venues that do it right-See Manchester etc.

ATB

Tony

[Guest Bicks]

I think it has much to do about the 'story' of the record, going back to the conception of the song, how the session was financed, how the artist aspired to the vocals, who played on what, where was the studio etc. Knowing that people struggled to make the song work and the session take place against all the odds, gives inspiration to others...like it did to me. The negativity of the business back in those days saying it would not happen and yet, when the records eventually turned up here, 5 and ten years later they already had some magic sprinkled all over them with stories like this. I think having the Bay City Rollers and The Rubettes in your lugs on popluar radio and TV all the time in those days, it was a refreshing change to play a record just picked up for 10p from the Hull Fair called 'This thing called love' by Johnny Wyatt. Who was he, who wrote the song, was it THE Barry White, did it ever chart, if not why, who were they trying to sound like, is this the only copy, who pressed it, where was the plant, who designed the label, are there others on the same label (picked up on the same day 'I got love'/Violla Wills) etc?

There are still stories connected to the records, but the older the track, there is more mystery and respect and it is put on a pedestal to champion others along the way. And rightly so, but I wonder what great stories we miss because of the same prejudice as yesteryear with efforts of todays music? Can you imagine somebody today struggling to finace a session and making it against all the odds, and ending up with a master that resides on a shelf at home just waiting to be exploited? The owner has spoken to a number of bespoke labels to try and generate interest to recieve no return phone calls, emails or anything? Ultimatley, the owner will have had to write the songs, financed the session, registered the songs copyright, press and distribute the records and pay royalties to those contracted to receive something. But, the story is priceless and along the way there are classic quotes from those who have faith in the finished material and those that do not.

That is why some of the records are priceless, it's the developing story that accompanies the sound recording. The instruments may be out of tune, the vocalist a little flat, a weak melody, mono, but once on the turntable you are playing a little history! It's like cracking open a vintage wine, not some New World Chardonnay with wooden chips steeping in it for the oak flavour with a screw cap 'for convenience'.

Great stuff, thanks for that.

[Guest Bicks]

Without going into the History of the World Part 2,

This is all you need to know.

If you are not passionate about format and want to possess any tune for Your own listening pleasure buy whatever the f*ck you want and get on with it.

What you should never ever do is,

take all those dolly mixtures and start up your own night, cos you got what the people want, and screw up the Venues that do it right-See Manchester etc.

ATB

Tony

No worries about me doing that, I'm more than happy dancing and letting someone else (who really knows the business) do the hard working, and anyway I'm more of a jelly babies man myself.

[Rugby Soul Club]

Please don't think I'm trying to be smart or clever, I'm not, I'm just curious about something.

I've already had a volley of abuse from some members on here due to my 'lack of understanding' so please be gentle.

First of all I must say that I have never DJ'd nor have I any intention to do so but this thing about 'originals' versus re-issues versus cd's really has me confused (the bootleg bit I can sort of grasp).

I've collected records since I was about 12 (30 years), sadly not Northern Soul stuff, and whilst I love my records I am just as happy to hear them off cd as I am off vinyl, although I do agree there is something special about putting a record onto a turntable and having to look after it.

I can also understand that it's always nicer to own an original than a re-issue, all those re-issue albums with that little red 'fame' logo in the corner make me shudder when I see them

I think what really puzzles me is the DJ bit. There are comments on here like "i would boycott any event that played boots or cd's".

WHY? surely it's about the music, not the format. As the Gordy label proclaims "It's what's in the grooves that counts" (i.e. not the grooves themselves)

As you can appreciate I was too young for the 70's early 80's heyday of the scene where cd's weren't available or even invented so obviously everything was off vinyl, is it a throwback to those days?

Feel free to wax lyrical, I really would like to understand why it is so important, and please don't just say (as I saw on another thread when somebody asked a similar question) "if you don't know now you never will, and I'm not going to explain", that really doesn't help.

It does get asked a lot but how will you ever learn if you don't ask...

To teach our children, we have to repeat the command continuously...

You're perfectly entitled to be confused 'Man of similar name'

To be honest when I arrived on here I was opinionated

But after a helpful push in the right direction by the good people on here (and trust me Bicks, the majority may seem miserable and unwelcoming but they are just passionate and pussycats in real life) I can now say i'm firmly in the OVO(Original Vinyl Only) camp

You were told what to do and think by Gail...go girl...

But you are ight, we can ALL seem a little miserable in the week but its only coz we are filling in time before the weekend...

Soul Source members might be a little more eloquent.

No neeeeed, we get our point across in woteva way...

BRILLIANT....Most of what I've read on this forum has been bitching and back biting and whilst some of it is probably tongue in cheek banter between friends I was starting to wonder whether to just bin it and go elsewhere, but when someone writes about something they love like that it makes we want to stick around and read more, much more interesting to read than all the sniping that seems to go on.

Stick with it and you'll become one of us in the end... ...

[Guest kev such]

I personally think that CDs, Boots and carvers are basically cheating.

IMHO i cant explain why i get so frickin excited to get home and tear open my latest purchase and put it on my record player and play it.

Say an event is on and the list of DJs are all OVO except one, whose a mate of the promoter or something. The guy with the boots or Cds has got an infinitly easier time djing than the OVO guys. If you happen to be on at a later time in the evening then a good portion of tunes have already been spun. So whoever the DJ is they have to work a bit harder with what they have in their box to please the dancing crowd. However should someone step up who has got Boots, Carvers or Cds then they have probably got the tunes that mere mortals (like me) can only dream of owning, and their job is easier in pleasing the crowd. Also if someone owns Boots,CDs or Carvers then the set that is played is predominately the same as any other dj with boots etc.... ie would a boot DJ spend a couple of quid on a tune (OV) play it and test the floor with it or rather buy a boot etc knowing that the floor will fill and they will get a thankyou clap from the crowd.

I personally believe that the thrill of DJing mainly comes from pleasing the crowd by playing tunes they recognise, tunes they've forgotten about or sometimes the B side. You cant find an equally good B side on a boot etc....

Also i think it is a smack in the face towards DJs who have or are sourcing OV only to have the tune that they have spent FRICKIN ages looking and saving for to have it played an hour or so before you on a bloody £5 boot etc....

Someone said to me once that the thing they most liked about Carvers was that they only cost him £10 and he could have ANTHING he wanted on the flip, .

Im not the richest chap in the world, but i save and wait for a tune to come along, so if a mere wipper snapper like me can do it then so can all the others.

Its not elitist its just proper.

Kev

[Guest]

I can now say i'm firmly in the OVO(Original Vinyl Only) camp

[stronger Than Me] was only available on the Album 'Rufus Luck...Your Luck'

You could always get a carver to make you one...not like you'd get the Soul Police on your back either as it was unreleased as a single

~ Beeks 07/09/08 ~

Edited November 20, 2008 by mikecook

[Guest Beeks]

[stronger Than Me - Rufus Lumley] was only available on the Album 'Rufus Luck...Your Luck'

You could always get a carver to make you one...not like you'd get the Soul Police on your back either as it was unreleased as a single

~ Beeks 07/09/08 ~

It is still the music that counts...and I didn't decide to collect original vinyl because I was told to by Soul knowitalls...I started because I began to enjoy collecting originals

Read this statement from my previous post and tell me that I care

[Md Records]

I look at it from a different direction, it's not about finances, D.J.'s who play a set of bootlegs/Reissues are lazy and unimaginitive, and have no concept of digging around for fresh, exciting, vibrant, soulful, underplayed sounds. Give them £10 and they'll buy a bootleg of "Tony Galla", whereas someone who "gets it" would "hunt" around for something like "The Voicemasters - You've Hurt me Baby". These people don't have ANYTHING to bring to the table apart from the obvious, and are just putting another nail in the coffin of something that should be continuously exciting and fresh, instead of the stale, tired nostalgia scene we seem to be getting more and more of.

Des Parker

[Spacehopper]

and how good is it when you play a tune and someone comes up and asks what it is !..(not so with most boots)....especially if that someone is a long standing soulie and that tune is a cheapie...and before you say it NO NOT BECAUSE I HAVE AN EGO THAT NEEDS FEEDING but because i too know that buzz when you hear a new tune at a gig and you just have to run to the dex !!....and thats the way biggies are made. and has always been one of the good things about this scene...we tell each other what the new tunes are not the tv/radio (big business)....pass the knowledge.....make the new biggies

some wicked CHEAP ORIGINAL DANCERS bought recently and unavailable on boot i cant wait to spin !...

are you my woman/chi-lettes...£7....great 60s slightly funk with beyonce sample

just like a yo yo /ruby winters...£4....im so bored with just loving you and could never afford it (the original that is ,why buy the boot when this is better anyway ! IMHO...and thats what counts)

she looks good/rodger collins £4 uptempo mod soul

you know whats to do/barrett strong £4 doubled sided rnb

i dont wanna talk about it /nancy ames £6 BIG production/vocals... small price

stop and listen/shirley vaughn £9 more uptempo with great brass alternative to well played patti drew

ok all off ebay with a bit of crackle on the intro but even near mint most of these would be under 20

[Citizen P]

I look at it from a different direction, it's not about finances, D.J.'s who play a set of bootlegs/Reissues are lazy and unimaginitive, and have no concept of digging around for fresh, exciting, vibrant, soulful, underplayed sounds. Give them £10 and they'll buy a bootleg of "Tony Galla", whereas someone who "gets it" would "hunt" around for something like "The Voicemasters - You've Hurt me Baby". These people don't have ANYTHING to bring to the table apart from the obvious, and are just putting another nail in the coffin of something that should be continuously exciting and fresh, instead of the stale, tired nostalgia scene we seem to be getting more and more of.

Des Parker

Tony

[Guest]

and how good is it when you play a tune and someone comes up and asks what it is !..(not so with most boots)....especially if that someone is a long standing soulie and that tune is a cheapie...and before you say it NO NOT BECAUSE I HAVE AN EGO THAT NEEDS FEEDING but because i too know that buzz when you hear a new tune at a gig and you just have to run to the dex !!....and thats the way biggies are made. and has always been one of the good things about this scene...we tell each other what the new tunes are not the tv/radio (big business)....pass the knowledge.....make the new biggies

some wicked CHEAP ORIGINAL DANCERS bought recently and unavailable on boot i cant wait to spin !...

are you my woman/chi-lettes...£7....great 60s slightly funk with beyonce sample

just like a yo yo /ruby winters...£4....im so bored with just loving you and could never afford it (the original that is ,why buy the boot when this is better anyway ! IMHO...and thats what counts)

she looks good/rodger collins £4 uptempo mod soul

you know whats to do/barrett strong £4 doubled sided rnb

i dont wanna talk about it /nancy ames £6 BIG production/vocals... small price

stop and listen/shirley vaughn £9 more uptempo with great brass alternative to well played patti drew

ok all off ebay with a bit of crackle on the intro but even near mint most of these would be under 20

dont want to cause arguments however, using a quote about 'playing tunes and people coming up to the decks to find out what the tune' is and then listing the above just doesn't seem to go together somehow

[Spacehopper]

not too sure what you are getting at.....do you mean the above tunes are no good and no one would ask the titles or that everyone should know them already ?.....

the point i was making is as a punter i love to hear tunes i dont know ,not possible when a dj plays boots of biggies all night,heard them all before......as a dj i love it when people ask me the title of a tune and then go looking for it also not possible if i played boots of biggies all night as most people i know cant or wont pay that money for them and all know them cos theyre on every northern compilation cd in asda....

[Guest]

not too sure what you are getting at.....do you mean the above tunes are no good and no one would ask the titles or that everyone should know them already ?.....

the point i was making is as a punter i love to hear tunes i dont know ,not possible when a dj plays boots of biggies all night,heard them all before......as a dj i love it when people ask me the title of a tune and then go looking for it also not possible if i played boots of biggies all night as most people i know cant or wont pay that money for them and all know them cos theyre on every northern compilation cd in asda....

just saying that the tunes listed are not so unknown, that was all. just like a yo yo was one of my favourite tracks years ago - and i still love hearing it now

[Guest Bearsy]

I look at it from a different direction, it's not about finances, D.J.'s who play a set of bootlegs/Reissues are lazy and unimaginitive, and have no concept of digging around for fresh, exciting, vibrant, soulful, underplayed sounds. Give them £10 and they'll buy a bootleg of "Tony Galla", whereas someone who "gets it" would "hunt" around for something like "The Voicemasters - You've Hurt me Baby". These people don't have ANYTHING to bring to the table apart from the obvious, and are just putting another nail in the coffin of something that should be continuously exciting and fresh, instead of the stale, tired nostalgia scene we seem to be getting more and more of.

Des Parker

I will have a copy of this for a tenner if you got one Des great double sider too