Crime

[Albert Petit]

https://shop.ebay.com/merchant/vinylrecordcutting

[Simsy]

Yeah Pete S posted this in Box section, shocking...

[Ian Dewhirst]

https://shop.ebay.com/merchant/vinylrecordcutting

Blimey. How does he get away with it?

He's in the UK with 123 positives, so there's a mini-industry going on right there! To think E-Bay kicked off a legitimate Jeff Buckley promo I tried to sell a few years back - maybe I should have just cut a carver and flogged that instead!

Ian D

[Prophonics 2029]

Whose to blame the buyers are not helping funding this fraudulent activity.

[Stubbsy]

He lists them as "re-issues" Don't know what the legal term would be for "re-issue" but he must be sailing close to the wind?

Still, don't suppose he'd sell as many if he listem em as boots

[Guest]

Bet they have thousands of em',i'd love to go round and swap the covers and shuffle em' about take forever to sort em out.

[Kev Moore]

Bet they have thousands of em',i'd love to go round and swap the covers and shuffle em' about take forever to sort em out.

Could play 'Fish' then Ken. Like the card game.

"Have you got anything on Golden world?"

"I've got 2 Johnny Bartels"

"Got a set of Sam Dees"

Don't think there'd be many winners tho'

[John Al]

https://shop.ebay.com/merchant/vinylrecordcutting

Agree, this is a crime. How should we go about reporting it as such?

[Ady Croasdell]

He's got Kent stuff on there so we'll be reporting him to EBay but feel free to stick your own boots (pun intended) in!

[Guest in town Mikey]

oops

Edited November 7, 2008 by in town Mikey

[Pete S]

All he is doing is thinking of a title, advertising it, and if anyone wants a copy, he then cuts a record. So he doesn't have stocks of them, he makes them to order. I admit I bought one, because I wanted to see how it compared to vinyl carvers.

[arnie j]

All he is doing is thinking of a title, advertising it, and if anyone wants a copy, he then cuts a record. So he doesn't have stocks of them, he makes them to order. I admit I bought one, because I wanted to see how it compared to vinyl carvers.

and what was your verdict bud ? just interested

[Simsy]

All he is doing is thinking of a title, advertising it, and if anyone wants a copy, he then cuts a record. So he doesn't have stocks of them, he makes them to order. I admit I bought one, because I wanted to see how it compared to vinyl carvers.

And..? Have you got it yet? Must have to wait almost a couple of weeks for delivery if he's making them to order...

[Pete S]

And..? Have you got it yet? Must have to wait almost a couple of weeks for delivery if he's making them to order...

No this was ages ago, about 5 weeks, I got it in 2 or 3 days. There should be no wait at all, he has a vinyl cutter by the looks of it. I can guarantee you that ebay will not be interested.

[Ady Potts]

How expensive are those vinyl cutters? just wondering how many records they'll have to sell to recoup their money?

[Pete S]

How expensive are those vinyl cutters? just wondering how many records they'll have to sell to recoup their money?

3 or 4 grand I think, you can get one that sort of clamps on to your technics deck!

[Guest SteveJohnston]

No this was ages ago, about 5 weeks, I got it in 2 or 3 days. There should be no wait at all, he has a vinyl cutter by the looks of it. I can guarantee you that ebay will not be interested.

Ebay may not be interested but Kate Logan at EMI may be i think he must be mad trying to cut the

Quarrymen

Steve J

[Ady Potts]

3 or 4 grand I think, you can get one that sort of clamps on to your technics deck!

In that case I'm starting to feel sorry for them....only another 200 to 300 discs to go & then we're in prophet dear

[Guest SB68]

There is a shop I know that does a vinyl to cd service... he reckons the only way to get round the legality of copyright is that the person who wants the vinyl copied has to actually own the record already,,, if he or she does not, they have to buy the vinyl item and then he will also charge them for the copy as well. I am not sure if this is what this guy does?

I'd like to know how the ebay seller in question is any different then going to vinyl carvers and having a replacement rare record made of one you have already (or supposedly some say they have?) And also how many Soul dealers do you know that sell bootleg 45s or pressings... I guarantee there are plenty that do stock them but because its open to question whether they are legit reissues or not, makes some sleep easier at night.

[Ady Potts]

Ebay may not be interested but Kate Logan at EMI may be i think he must be mad trying to cut the

Quarrymen

Steve J

Yeh I thought that Steve, that may be the one that'll cost him (or her)

Edited November 7, 2008 by pottsy

[Pete S]

Ebay may not be interested but Kate Logan at EMI may be i think he must be mad trying to cut the

Quarrymen

Steve J

That was what I thought, imagine having Paul McCartney's lawyers after you

[Supercorsa]

I'm not going to get involved in the boot arguments, but just want to post up a post I made a little while back. It was what an Ebay spokesperson said when the Beckhams personal stuff was listed.

I just had to post this up. I was just reading about the personal Beckham stuff that was alleged to be on Ebay. Anyway I've copied the following from the article. It made me laugh anyway.

And an eBay spokeswoman said the firm was working with police to establish which items were involved in the allegations.

"Anyone stupid enough to try to sell anything that is not 100 percent legitimate makes a big mistake when they try to do it on our site," she added.

Unless it's northern soul bootlegs, obviously.

[Guest SteveJohnston]

that should sort the Lawyers out

That was what I thought, imagine having Paul McCartney's lawyers after you

Edited November 7, 2008 by SteveJohnston

[Guest Bicks]

My brother bought me Gladys Knight - No One Can Love You More on one of these pressings and it's really good.

It's one-sided so it's not like you can say it's an original, and it's just got a plain white label, not even done up to look like a company demo.

And anyway, if it's such a sin for DJ's to play stuff off cd's because "vinyl sounds so much better", and the originals are either way too expensive or simply not available then (apart from the copyright issue which is something for the music big boys to sort out) what's the problem with this?

Is it just for the rich elite?

Right, that's the floodgates opened, I'll just wait for the flood. Go on you know you want to.

[Guest sadsam]

Has he got the rights to these titles, if not the B.M.I. would be interested, lots of dealers still inside for moody cd,s. Thats one of the things ruining the northern scene, once upon a time you would travel 100s of miles to hear a dj play certain records, now you download, or buy boots like this, instant dj open he's or her's do. I'm going to sound really old now, but in my day, you did what i would class as the knowledge, spending years to hear all these records, to atain your taste in soul music, now any prat can do it, it's a shame. We used to have in the 70s with bootlegers, but then you got a nod from some one if you where lucky, and you would get rid sharpish, how times have changed, good i've turned in to my dad ahhhhh!!!!

FRIDAY 28th NOVEMBER

MID TEMPO NIGHT

"THE CITY" PETERBOROUGH PE11JL

all records we play will be real

SAD SAM A.K.A. PAUL JOHNSON

[chrissie]

He's got Kent stuff on there so we'll be reporting him to EBay but feel free to stick your own boots (pun intended) in!

I had a little time on my hands today so went through every one and reported them all individually so that should flood ebays in box

Suggest if everyone does similar even if it is only on one or two of them it may alert evil bay that there may be something amiss

QoFxx

[Albert Petit]

My brother bought me Gladys Knight - No One Can Love You More on one of these pressings and it's really good.

It's one-sided so it's not like you can say it's an original, and it's just got a plain white label, not even done up to look like a company demo.

And anyway, if it's such a sin for DJ's to play stuff off cd's because "vinyl sounds so much better", and the originals are either way too expensive or simply not available then (apart from the copyright issue which is something for the music big boys to sort out) what's the problem with this?

Is it just for the rich elite?

Right, that's the floodgates opened, I'll just wait for the flood. Go on you know you want to.

Thats its a insult to the people make a GOOD & LEGIT work...Kent, Grapevine, Goldmine, Joyboy and sorry for the other people can forget...Northern Soul is not only for the rich people...Im a f**** worker of the paper industry...if any would djain with CD´s or Reissues, bootlegs, etc...OK, but thats is a LIE, maybe its good in a friends reunion or barbeque but not for a serious allnighters.

Sorry for my bad english....

Keep the faith!

[pikeys dog]

Already done this Chrissie, a few weeks back.

eBay couldn't give a toss whilst they are getting listing/final value fees.

I would imagine only someone like Kent / EMI getting their legal departments on the case would sway them.

[chrissie]

My brother bought me Gladys Knight - No One Can Love You More on one of these pressings and it's really good.

It's one-sided so it's not like you can say it's an original, and it's just got a plain white label, not even done up to look like a company demo.

And anyway, if it's such a sin for DJ's to play stuff off cd's because "vinyl sounds so much better", and the originals are either way too expensive or simply not available then (apart from the copyright issue which is something for the music big boys to sort out) what's the problem with this?

Is it just for the rich elite?

Right, that's the floodgates opened, I'll just wait for the flood. Go on you know you want to.

I can't even believe you are saying this Bicks, you are really showing yourself to be very niave, about the whole essence of the soul scene. If you read this forum you should know know what the general feeling is about this type of theft.............and yes, if he hasn't got the rights to the records it is theft. So that means I suppose, you are knowingly in receipt of stolen property

Already done this Chrissie, a few weeks back.

eBay couldn't give a toss whilst they are getting listing/final value fees.

I would imagine only someone like Kent / EMI getting their legal departments on the case would sway them.

Over to Ady then

QoFxx

Edited November 7, 2008 by chrissie

[Tomangoes]

Not sure the guy should be hanged just yet. Whats listed thats not on CD? for every legit CD sold there must be 5 copied.

At least it keeps record player manufacturer's in a job, and like has been said on here already this guys has only made vinyl copies of CD/MP3 tracks, as its not likely he has original copies on vinyl.

Its not as bad as trying to fool collectors into buying copies/bootlegs as originals, and that has been going on for yonks.

If he made a vinyl copy of a cd only track, or from master tapes would that be a crime? Live and let live (in this case) I say.

Ed

[Tabs]

Hi Chrissie,

It was Bicks not Beeks

I can't even believe you are saying this Beeks, you are really showing yourself to be very niave, about the whole essence of the soul scene. you spend enough time on here to know what the general feeling is about this type of theft.............and yes, if he hasn't got the rights to the records it is theft. So that means I suppose, you are knowingly in receipt of stolen property

Over to Ady then

QoFxx

[SteveM]

Hi Chrissie,

It was Bicks not Beeks

I think we all know who it was

[Peter99]

Hi Chrissie,

It was Bicks not Beeks

Yer beat me to it Tabs!

Now that Beeks is a fooker for sure - but on this occasion he's innocent!

[Sean Hampsey]

I think we all know who it was

Bootleg Beeks!

[John Al]

I had a little time on my hands today so went through every one and reported them all individually so that should flood ebays in box

Suggest if everyone does similar even if it is only on one or two of them it may alert evil bay that there may be something amiss

QoFxx

I did the same so here's hoping............

J.

[SteveM]

Yer beat me to it Tabs!

Now that Beeks is a fooker for sure - but on this occasion he's innocent!

Ah, but has Bicks denied he's Beeks.

[Peter99]

Ah, but has Bicks denied he's Beeks.

That's funny as fook Steve - but probably only you and me who get it!

I'm PMSL!

[Modernsoulsucks]

Thats one of the things ruining the northern scene, once upon a time you would travel 100s of miles to hear a dj play certain records, now you download, or buy boots like this, instant dj open he's or her's do. I'm going to sound really old now, but in my day, you did what i would class as the knowledge, spending years to hear all these records, to atain your taste in soul music, now any prat can do it, it's a shame. We used to have in the 70s with bootlegers, but then you got a nod from some one if you where lucky, and you would get rid sharpish, how times have changed, good i've turned in to my dad ahhhhh!!!!

FRIDAY 28th NOVEMBER

MID TEMPO NIGHT

"THE CITY" PETERBOROUGH PE11JL

all records we play will be real

SAD SAM A.K.A. PAUL JOHNSON

I don't think this comment makes any sense whatsoever. CDs are legal and can be played in a club provided you have the set-up. Are you saying that Kent etc are ruining the scene by making records available.

Whilst I kinda agree with the sentiment you gotta remember that back then records were dropped when they became available. Nowadays that doesn't seem to be the case and in fact I notice some records that become more popular after inclusion on a CD.

Unless you are like Ady holding the rights to this stuff I agree with Ed that it has nowt to do with us what the guy's doing. I know Ady does his best to put stuff out on vinyl but costs mean he can't issue everything so this guy jumps in. BUT big time? The odd carver. And I guess he bought a copy of the Kent CD to start with.

ROD

[Guest Carl Dixon]

Unless he has a licence to copy and distribute/sell these items he is breaking the law. I would not think he is paying MCPS any pressing royalties which in turn get sent to writers and publishers of the songs. The song writers need to have an income and the duplication and playing of the records/tracks are what generates funds for those creating these songs in the first place. What is not right are the credits and acknowledgments to those investors who strive to write, produce, record and release this stuff is ignored. As an attorney said to me, 'just becuase somebody likes the music, it does not give them the right to copy and sell it'.

From my perspective I cannot release my Detroit recordings until I have pressed up some records. Because if I do not, somebody else will (plus I want to!). I would hate to think that my songs and productions creations were being pressed up and sent all over the place as mp3's without my permission and even worse, without a mention of the artist, writers, label etc, who also get a royalty subject to whatever is agreed etc. If I press up, sell and get a revenue, I will be sending royalties to the artists and I may even give something to the musicians, even though I am not obliged to.

This is a can of worms because I have the prospect of spending £12000 of my pension and savings for four tracks and selling mp3's for a ridiculous amount of money with a massive possibility that they will be copied and distributed like on YouTube, for example. Just imagine if say 3000 people listened to a good YouTube track, copied it and never paid a penny. That is why I think the physical 45rpm is something of worth and maybe, just maybe a collectable that a supporter will purchase knowing that any sales will generate a royalty for a whole bunch of people involved and hopefully an incentive to cut more in the studio.

Edited November 7, 2008 by Carl Dixon

[Guest Matt Male]

I don't know who he is but there are some interesting choices of titles. Patience Valentine, The Combinations, Hayes Cotton... not the usually overplayed oldies that the general public are used to. Obviously has taste despite what you might think of his activities....

Hang on, scratch that... just spotted Joey Delorenzo. He's an idiot.

[chrissie]

Hi Chrissie,

It was Bicks not Beeks

OOOOOOOoops so it was, appologies Beeks

QoFxx

[chrissie]

Hi Chrissie,

It was Bicks not Beeks

I think we all know who it was

Yer beat me to it Tabs!

Now that Beeks is a fooker for sure - but on this occasion he's innocent!

Bootleg Beeks!

I did the same so here's hoping............

J.

Ah, but has Bicks denied he's Beeks.

My post has been edited accordintly..................its still bloody theft though

QoFxx

[Guest]

If they're made to order,it makes the buyer and the seller are thieving fookers i'm skint wouldnt catch me buying a boot no way,probberly wouldnt catch me with any good records either not.

[Guest Bicks]

My post has been edited accordintly..................its still bloody theft though

QoFxx

Can I just give a wholehearted apology to Beeks for any grief he may have been getting.

Beeks is the one you have all been chatting to for all this time, and I (Bicks) am the "naiive" new boy who clearly has no idea about the soul scene, but is keen to know more and by occaisionally playing 'Devil's advocate' on these forums I'm getting a good insight into the mind-set of people for whom soul music is important and have many more years on 'the scene' than I have.

I'm sorry but I haven't had 30 or 40 years of listening to find my favourites, so if I buy as many CD's and download as many MP3's as I can to learn more about the music, what's the problem? And if, as was seen on the 'theft' thread, 150 of the best records going adds up to £40,000 then what chance have I got?

As for the copyright issue, yes they are all copyright and any breach is unlawful, but if the people in charge like the BPI can't be bothered to clean-up then then who is? Are we now the Soul Police as well?And don't forget, a lot of these early songs are pushing on towards the 50 year threshold where copyright expires (just ask Cliff Richard what he thinks of that idea) so we'll get a load of smaller record companies churning out compilation cd's of any old tat just because it's over 50 years old, just like all those jazz and rock and roll CD's..

I think the music industry needs to realise that their whole business has been overtaken by technology and they haven't kept up, it's not our fault if they offer artists like Robbie Wiilams multi-million dollar contracts only to find out that fans are downloading his albums for free on the internet, and the sooner they start releasing back catalogue stuff for free, or extremely cheaply, then illegal copying will go on.

As for the dodgy 45's on the original posting then surely the main outlet for these will be people who want to DJ using vinyl but can't afford, or can't find, the originals, so are we saying you can only DJ if you can afford to, or are we going to cut some slack to people who play music off CD.

Anyway, rant over.

Thanks, Bicks. Or am I Beeks' s stroppy schizophrenic alter ego......I'll just get me tablets.

[Guest]

Can I just give a wholehearted apology to Beeks for any grief he may have been getting.

Beeks is the one you have all been chatting to for all this time, and I (Bicks) am the "naiive" new boy who clearly has no idea about the soul scene, but is keen to know more and by occaisionally playing 'Devil's advocate' on these forums I'm getting a good insight into the mind-set of people for whom soul music is important and have many more years on 'the scene' than I have.

I'm sorry but I haven't had 30 or 40 years of listening to find my favourites, so if I buy as many CD's and download as many MP3's as I can to learn more about the music, what's the problem? And if, as was seen on the 'theft' thread, 150 of the best records going adds up to £40,000 then what chance have I got?

As for the copyright issue, yes they are all copyright and any breach is unlawful, but if the people in charge like the BPI can't be bothered to clean-up then then who is? Are we now the Soul Police as well?And don't forget, a lot of these early songs are pushing on towards the 50 year threshold where copyright expires (just ask Cliff Richard what he thinks of that idea) so we'll get a load of smaller record companies churning out compilation cd's of any old tat just because it's over 50 years old, just like all those jazz and rock and roll CD's..

I think the music industry needs to realise that their whole business has been overtaken by technology and they haven't kept up, it's not our fault if they offer artists like Robbie Wiilams multi-million dollar contracts only to find out that fans are downloading his albums for free on the internet, and the sooner they start releasing back catalogue stuff for free, or extremely cheaply, then illegal copying will go on.

As for the dodgy 45's on the original posting then surely the main outlet for these will be people who want to DJ using vinyl but can't afford, or can't find, the originals, so are we saying you can only DJ if you can afford to, or are we going to cut some slack to people who play music off CD.

Anyway, rant over.

Thanks, Bicks. Or am I Beeks' s stroppy schizophrenic alter ego......I'll just get me tablets.

Why dont you save some money,buy some cheap originals there are plenty and in ten years you'll have enough a decent propper legal set,its easy to play all the biggies were probberly sick of,as for them that want to dj with booglegs them the ones with no backbone or integrity who cares i hope the deck/mp3 player blows up on em'.

[Kev Moore]

Why dont you save some money,buy some cheap originals there are plenty and in ten years you'll have enough a decent propper legal set,its easy to play all the biggies were probberly sick of,as for them that want to dj with booglegs them the ones with no backbone or integrity who cares i hope the deck/mp3 player blows up on em'.

Gypsies, Tramps and Theives!!!!!!!!!!!

[Modernsoulsucks]

I think you're jumping to assumptions Ken that those who buy do so with the intention of dj-ing. I think we can take it that Pete Smith didn't purchase his Silky Hargraves for that purpose so unless you know for definite why not give the others the benefit of the doubt. There are some who've bought quite a few of the guy's titles if you check the feedback but again where is the proof, unless you know the buyers of course.

There are a lot of people who don't like CDs even for home use so to them a carver is perfectly acceptable. I take your point about plenty of good cheaper 45s about but if you like and want say Combinations he's selling why shouldn't someone have it without shelling out £5000.

I know the legality of it all but that's nowt to do with me or you [i guess]. As I said earlier I leave that to Ady and the like.

Looking through those available titles and items he's sold it doesn't really look to me like calculated attempts to get a "biggies" playlist together. Frank Beverly? Don Gardner[already on Grapevine]? Most are oldies.

I don't buy this stuff but no problems with others doing so. I'd imagine royalties etc lost are miniscule.

As for the unissued Motown I hope he makes a fortune out of them as the knobheads running that re-issue series have IMO really let down us fans by not releasing the best tracks on vinyl.

ROD

[chrissie]

Where do I start..................................

Can I just give a wholehearted apology to Beeks for any grief he may have been getting.

Beeks is the one you have all been chatting to for all this time, and I (Bicks) am the "naiive" new boy who clearly has no idea about the soul scene, but is keen to know more and by occaisionally playing 'Devil's advocate' on these forums I'm getting a good insight into the mind-set of people for whom soul music is important and have many more years on 'the scene' than I have.

That is why forums lilke this are great to learn from. Although I have always loved the music I stopped DJing and left the scene per se about 30 years ago and came back about 6 years ago only to find how things had changed, so I have read, attended venues, listenend to people far more knowlegable than myself and learnt. At a pont in this time in the wilderness I lost all my records but that's another story.

I'm sorry but I haven't had 30 or 40 years of listening to find my favourites, so if I buy as many CD's and download as many MP3's as I can to learn more about the music, what's the problem?

There is absolutly no problem with legal downloads and CDs for your own use and if the truth be known thats what most of us listen to in the comfort of our own front rooms and cars.

And if, as was seen on the 'theft' thread, 150 of the best records going adds up to £40,000 then what chance have I got?

Every chance. I have built a very small but I think nice collection over the last 6 years and I don't think it has cost me more than about 2k but that has meant taking the time and trouble trolling ebay, sales lists finding tasty cheapies and when I have been able to afford that special more expensive record, i have saved up for it and waited till it has come up at the right price, often forefitting nights out staying in for weeks sometimes months on end to enable me to buy that special record.

There is no need to appologise for being new to the scene we all were once and I was in a way about 6 years ago a novice as so much had changed but I took the time to listen to other people and take the bits I like of the scene and disregard the rest.

As for the copyright issue, yes they are all copyright and any breach is unlawful, but if the people in charge like the BPI can't be bothered to clean-up then then who is? Are we now the Soul Police as well?And don't forget, a lot of these early songs are pushing on towards the 50 year threshold where copyright expires (just ask Cliff Richard what he thinks of that idea) so we'll get a load of smaller record companies churning out compilation cd's of any old tat just because it's over 50 years old, just like all those jazz and rock and roll CD's..

I don't know about that, Ady C or someone far more knowledgeable than myself would have to answer this one

I think the music industry needs to realise that their whole business has been overtaken by technology and they haven't kept up, it's not our fault if they offer artists like Robbie Wiilams multi-million dollar contracts only to find out that fans are downloading his albums for free on the internet, and the sooner they start releasing back catalogue stuff for free, or extremely cheaply, then illegal copying will go on.

As for the dodgy 45's on the original posting then surely the main outlet for these will be

people who want to DJ using vinyl but can't afford, or can't find, the originals, so are we saying you can only DJ if you can afford to, or are we going to cut some slack to people who play music off CD.

The only DJ that will get any respect on this scene is the DJ who plays off original vinyl, whether they be cheapies that they have searched to hunt out or big ticket records it doesn't matter. To me if they are not prepared to take the time and troulble to search and save up for these records and all they want to do is DJ then they are not rare soul DJs and should stick to doing local pub nights and weddings etc off compilation CDs. Nearly anyone could fill their play box with a load of boots and fill a dance floor but it would be a dance floor at a venue that I and the majority of people on here would not be attending because of the policy to allow boots to be played.

Anyway, rant over.

Thanks, Bicks. Or am I Beeks' s stroppy schizophrenic alter ego......I'll just get me tablets.

THATS MY RANT OVER

QoFxx

Edited November 8, 2008 by chrissie

[Guest]

I think you're jumping to assumptions Ken that those who buy do so with the intention of dj-ing. I think we can take it that Pete Smith didn't purchase his Silky Hargraves for that purpose so unless you know for definite why not give the others the benefit of the doubt. There are some who've bought quite a few of the guy's titles if you check the feedback but again where is the proof, unless you know the buyers of course.

There are a lot of people who don't like CDs even for home use so to them a carver is perfectly acceptable. I take your point about plenty of good cheaper 45s about but if you like and want say Combinations he's selling why shouldn't someone have it without shelling out £5000.

I know the legality of it all but that's nowt to do with me or you [i guess]. As I said earlier I leave that to Ady and the like.

Looking through those available titles and items he's sold it doesn't really look to me like calculated attempts to get a "biggies" playlist together. Frank Beverly? Don Gardner[already on Grapevine]? Most are oldies.

I don't buy this stuff but no problems with others doing so. I'd imagine royalties etc lost are miniscule.

As for the unissued Motown I hope he makes a fortune out of them as the knobheads running that re-issue series have IMO really let down us fans by not releasing the best tracks on vinyl.

ROD

Just gettin' em' for home use s'pose thats ok i think ? but you want to take em' to dj with forget it !!