Northern Attendances In The 70s

[Ady Croasdell]

I've got a feeling this has been discussed before and a rough estimate of how many people were fans of Northern Soul to any degree at its popularity peak. What was the consensus or whadya think it was very roughly?

[Guest gordon russell]

to start with there were fewer venues circa 68/73 and even after that,probably less folk than we might like to think,it was also much more of an underground scene then......my estimation no more than 5000/6000 nationwide

[Steve G]

Hmm depends what time I guess. When NS was in the Sun etc and Footsee was in the charts, probably 10-15,000. But that's a wild guess.

[Pauldonnelly]

I've got a feeling this has been discussed before and a rough estimate of how many people were fans of Northern Soul to any degree at its popularity peak. What was the consensus or whadya think it was very roughly?

I'd have a guess at 20.000, though on a good sat night in the uk possibly 3000 out on the boards so to speak at the nighter scene which begs the questions how many people are out on a good sat night in the uk nowadays soul night wise, it could be argued more than the 70's?

[Guest gordon russell]

Hmm depends what time I guess. When NS was in the Sun etc and Footsee was in the charts, probably 10-15,000. But that's a wild guess.

hmn!...nice figure ......can't see these estimates myself....l went to all the big (not in size) venues in the 70's right from 71/72..just can't see where all these people were.In most cases there were only 2 maybe three venues on across the country at any one period as they were all mostly well attended can't see where the other 10,000 were?

[Guest gordon russell]

I'd have a guess at 20.000, though on a good sat night in the uk possibly 3000 out on the boards so to speak at the nighter scene which begs the questions how many people are out on a good sat night in the uk nowadays soul night wise, it could be argued more than the 70's?

not many in our area...to feckin lazy or middle aged......whilst most of em live in the 70's in their minds and musically,their bodies can only be bothered with once or twice a year at some oldies fest

[Pauldonnelly]

hmn!...nice figure ......can't see these estimates myself....l went to all the big (not in size) venues in the 70's right from 71/72..just can't see where all these people were.In most cases there were only 2 maybe three venues on across the country at any one period as they were all mostly well attended can't see where the other 10,000 were?

"how many people were fans of Northern Soul to any degree"

we use to have Northern nights at the Carousel in Peterborough 1972 and 400 used to flock in though hardly any went to the countrys nighters..

[Pauldonnelly]

not many in our area...to feckin lazy or middle aged......whilst most of em live in the 70's in their minds and musically,their bodies can only be bothered with once or twice a year at some oldies fest

[Ady Croasdell]

Thanks chaps, I know it was small when I started, probably in the hundreds, but I thought there would have been more in the mid 70s at the height of Wigan, however your answers have done the job in rough etimates. Thanks

[Eddie Hubbard]

Thanks chaps, I know it was small when I started, probably in the hundreds, but I thought there would have been more in the mid 70s at the height of Wigan, however your answers have done the job in rough etimates. Thanks

I think Russ mentioned that at it's peak Wigan had 100, 000 members .That would've been some night if they'd all turned up the same night eh ? Best ,Eddie

[Ian Dewhirst]

I think Russ mentioned that at it's peak Wigan had 100, 000 members .That would've been some night if they'd all turned up the same night eh ? Best ,Eddie

Yep, I've heard that figure bandied about as well. I think you have to make a distinction almost between hard-core and soft-core Northern Soul fans. It could be argued that there were many local discos which played Northern Soul (or Northern Soul spots) especially in most of the Midlands/Northern towns, all of which had a regular element of fans even if they didn't necessarily go to nighters. I guess it was these type of fans that made up the bulk of the sales of some bootlegs - 20k in the cases of Gloria Jones and the Mike Post Coalition reputedly.

Also there was a run of 'crossover' Northern Soul hits like "Hey Girl Don't Bother Me" - The Tams (No.1 in '71) "There's A Ghost In My House" (No.3 in '74) and even "You Sexy Sugar Plum" - Rodger Collins (No.22 in '76) which means that a lot of people bought the records - at least 250,000 in the case of the Tams and R. Dean Taylor but whether they could be considered fans is another question.

I reckon 10k hardcore and maybe 100k softcore between '70-'77?

Ian D

Edited November 3, 2008 by Ian Dewhirst

[Kev Moore]

.

Also there was a run of 'crossover' Northern Soul hits like "Hey Girl Don't Bother Me" - The Tams (No.1 in '71) "There's A Ghost In My House" (No.3 in '74) and even "You Sexy Sugar Plum" - Rodger Collins (No.22 in '76) which means that a lot of people bought the records - at least 250,000 in the case of the Tams and R. Dean Taylor but whether they could be considered fans is another question.

I remember when I started nighters as a toung shy 15 year old and started to attend the Casino although aware of things like Cool Off-Billy Prophet-Tomangoes etc.. the top tunes in my head were re-issue of Little Anthony-and better use...and remember...Tavares ect

Oldies nights were jammed as were the artist nights-J.J.Barnes-Juniour Walker and I remember the Detroit Emeralds packing the olace out. Sat nights were full as well but had thinned out by 1979/80 as I remember being there with no more than 200 at times. Also remember Mr M's being empty when Sylvester..You make me feel mighty real was played.

People were probably going to other nighters by then though.

In my mind when Wigan shut it had had its day long before.

Kev

[Steve G]

hmn!...nice figure ......can't see these estimates myself....l went to all the big (not in size) venues in the 70's right from 71/72..just can't see where all these people were.In most cases there were only 2 maybe three venues on across the country at any one period as they were all mostly well attended can't see where the other 10,000 were?

Yeah but every youth club had a northern soul element that emerged from the shadows when a DJ spun some northern - I am counting these in my guestimate Terry. Not just your died in the wool nighter guys.

[Guest gordon russell]

Yeah but every youth club had a northern soul element that emerged from the shadows when a DJ spun some northern - I am counting these in my guestimate Terry. Not just your died in the wool nighter guys.

you can't include youth clubs.......can you?

[Prophonics 2029]

Most towns on the Fylde coast had a Northern night, Kirkham, Wesham, Lytham and Poulton ( is this is all getting a bit hammy ) some had alcohol so to be into soul was cool cause you could drink under age. Think I started 14 15 at Kirkham Conservative club and what a night that was, run by two brothers, soul DJ's for 2 nights a week and undertakers the rest, cant remeber their name.

In those towns 300 400 into soul not including Blackpool or Preston for Blackpool add another 150 200.

Edited November 3, 2008 by Prophonics 2029

[Dave Thorley]

Here a stab at it.

Wigan say 2000 on a good nite, on the same nite Cleethorpes or St Ives about another 600/700, Mecca say 400, but 200 go on to Wigan (hope your following this), on the sunday Whitchurch, Powerhouse or The Ritz alldayer gets in 800, but again some have been out last night so discount down by 50% (400). Other alldayers/small events etc 1000 in total. Some people only ever went to local events mid-week and never allniters/alldayers, so add another 1000 across the counrty (you may not call them hard core fans but they did go). So that gives a total of about 5000 regulars most weeks.

So that gives you a weekly average, but then what multiple do you add to cover those that didn't go every week, but say once a month and may not be covered by above.

So thats 'Northern' Fans, if your talking about soul fans more generally you have to add in the London and southern scene, early Canvey Island etc which could add as many again going out every week to hear soul music.

Edited November 3, 2008 by Dave Thorley

[Pete S]

Yeah but every youth club had a northern soul element that emerged from the shadows when a DJ spun some northern - I am counting these in my guestimate Terry. Not just your died in the wool nighter guys.

I was thinking about that too. When Northern arrived at our youth club in mid 74 courtesy of some 'big lads', some of us were into it like a shot and I'd attended my first nighter in 1975 - but what I remember most is that our disco, which was in a fair sized hall, would be rammed, and even the 'nerds' would be dancing to things like Get Out, I think it gave a lot of people confidence that they normally wouldn't have had, they'd just be sitting around the sides watching everyone else dance, but now they were all joining in. Most didn't stay with it, some did though, and we even had two succesful nighters at our youth club.

[Steve G]

you can't include youth clubs.......can you?

Yes - read Ady's question Tezza.

"how many people were fans of Northern Soul to any degree" - that to me includes the kids in the youth clubs doing the Footsee etc

Edited November 4, 2008 by Steve G

[Prophonics 2029]

Local disco 3 Northern record with 3 Rock & Roll records thrown in some times you had to wait till the end of the night to get them played LOL.. I was talking pure Northern soul clubs.

[Steve G]

Local disco 3 Northern record with 3 Rock & Roll records thrown in some times you had to wait till the end of the night to get them played LOL.. I was talking pure Northern soul clubs.

Yeah but Ady was asking how many people, not how many records. Our yoof club was the same - sometimes you had to badger the DJ!

[Jez Jones]

Yeah but Ady was asking how many people, not how many records. Our yoof club was the same - sometimes you had to badger the DJ!

Still the same nowadays with some of em

I would tend to agree with darcyboy especially early 70's. 3 maybe 4 venues nationwide that catered for the fanatical Northern soul bods so what maybe 2000+

I think the introduction of all dayers in the early to mid 70's opened up northern soul to lot more people(not least those that weren't allowed to stop out all night)

[Pauldonnelly]

"can you play cold cheese Mr DJ?"

"what?"

"can you play cold cheese?"

"what the fook are you on about pal?"

"don' t fooking patronise me mr dj I know what I'm on abouT, have you got Paul Humpries Cold Cheese"

[Jez Jones]

"can you play cold cheese Mr DJ?"

"what?"

"can you play cold cheese?"

"what the fook are you on about pal?"

"don' t fooking patronise me mr dj I know what I'm on abouT, have you got Paul Humpries Cold Cheese"

an while we on on Mr dj have yer got 2 4 6 8 10 ---yer know shirley ellis

[Pauldonnelly]

an while we on on Mr dj have yer got 2 4 6 8 10 ---yer know shirley ellis

Neal Bull use to come on the stage at the Peterborough Wirrina and ask me to play...

"you aint got no TV"

"YEAH OK NEAL WILL DO"

after about a month he come us and says

"you aint got it have you?

"what"

"you aint got no TV., I ask you every week and you never play the fooker"

Two Records later I played "Sisters Love - learning to trust may man on Mowest" he comes running up to the deck..."you bastard you had it all the while"

[Dave Moore]

Neal Bull use to come on the stage at the Peterborough Wirrina and ask me to play...

"you aint got no TV"

"YEAH OK NEAL WILL DO"

after about a month he come us and says

"you aint got it have you?

"what"

"you aint got no TV., I ask you every week and you never play the fooker"

Two Records later I played "Sisters Love - learning to trust may man on Mowest" he comes running up to the deck..."you bastard you had it all the while"

Shhhhhh! Don't spoil my fun. Bev (Wifey) still thinks it called - "You Ain't Got No TV!"

[Guest DaveSwift]

Still the same nowadays with some of em

I would tend to agree with darcyboy especially early 70's. 3 maybe 4 venues nationwide that catered for the fanatical Northern soul bods so what maybe 2000+

I think the introduction of all dayers in the early to mid 70's opened up northern soul to lot more people(not least those that weren't allowed to stop out all night)

[Guest DaveSwift]

sorry messed up last time - meant to say -

I think there were a lot more soul fans in period 1968 to 1971 than later. But majority didn't go to allnighters. In those days there was no need to travel far as soul was dominant music in all clubs (at least in North and Midlands).

In late 68 there were enough fans to get Edwin Starr - SOS and Isley brothers - This Old Heart Of Mine re-released and put in charts.

I think it was as popularily of soul in mainstream clubs started to slip in early seventies that people were forced to travel further so all nighters became more prominent.

[homeoftheblues]

Here a stab at it.

Wigan say 2000 on a good nite, on the same nite Cleethorpes or St Ives about another 600/700, Mecca say 400, but 200 go on to Wigan (hope your following this), on the sunday Whitchurch, Powerhouse or The Ritz alldayer gets in 800, but again some have been out last night so discount down by 50% (400). Other alldayers/small events etc 1000 in total. Some people only ever went to local events mid-week and never allniters/alldayers, so add another 1000 across the counrty (you may not call them hard core fans but they did go). So that gives a total of about 5000 regulars most weeks.

So that gives you a weekly average, but then what multiple do you add to cover those that didn't go every week, but say once a month and may not be covered by above.

So thats 'Northern' Fans, if your talking about soul fans more generally you have to add in the London and southern scene, early Canvey Island etc which could add as many again going out every week to hear soul music.

I would say you're about right there Dave possibly another 1000 at tops, be interested to know how many are going to niters/soul nights now, my guess is about 3500 to 5000 a week. You have to remember that it was considered the in thing to have a Wigan membership card for alot of people, most of them never went at all !!