Innovation 2 Records - Full Label Listing

[Steve Plumb]

The article below originally appeared in 'Voices From The Shadows' Issue #14 (Mid 1990) and was spread over two pages with a scan of the logo plus White Demo scans of Barbara Hall 'Drop my heart off at the door' & Ebony Rhythm Funk Campaign 'How's your wife'

Everything is exactly as it was in the article including the description of each track that I made at the time!

Where I have added new bits of info for this thread in Oct'08 I have marked it as ***

70'S SOUL - THE INNOVATION II RECORD LABEL

With the interest in 70's Soul now at an all time high, I thought it would be the right time to reflect on one of the most in-demand and influential labels of that genre - out of Chicago - INNOVATION II

My personal interest in the label came about some years ago through conversations with Mecca stalwarts Pete Haigh and Pete Mason who both recommended anything on the label. As I had one or two singles already, I set about trying to locate the rest.

Although there are three duffers on the label, the rest are all generally excellent examples of 70's Chicago soul, most being midtempo dancers backed with great ballads.

The original numbering system makes it difficult to know whether there are more Innovation II singles out there - the label was affiliated with WARNER BROS so the first singles have Warner Bros numbers pre-fixed firstly with 'WB' going on to 'INS' then eventually getting their own distribution leading to sequential numbers prefixed with 'IV'

Probably due to lack of chart success, the label ceased trading in 1975. It is generally accepted that the remains of Innovation II merged into the Chi-Sound label which saw much more success with Chicago artists like Gene Chandler, The Chi-Lites, Walter Jackson, Windy City, Carl Davis and Margie Alexander.

LABEL LISTING

WB 7804 WINDY CITY "If By Chance"/"Hey it's Over" (SIL0042/43) 1974

Two fine Chicago group sounds. 'If' is a nice falsetto ballad which also appeared on their 'CHI SOUND' album, while 'Hey' is a midtempo mover. (Also released on the actual Warner Bros logo with the same number)

***As spotted by eagle eyed Mr Hampsey ALL copies seem to have INNERVISION II in the logo rather than INNOVATION II. As this is the first release on the label we can only assume the Warner Bros designers made a cock up on the logo and the proof readers didn't spot it! Are there any more releases like this? Are there any issues or demos of the above with the correct spelling?

WB 7826 QUADRAPHONICS "Betcha If You Check It Out"/"Prove My Love To You" (SIL0046/47) 1974

Reached No. 51 in the US R&B/Soul Top 100. 'Betcha' is a classic 70's dancer b/w a tidy ballad on the flipside. (Also obtained a UK release on CONTEMPO in 1975)

***(Also released on the actual Warner Bros logo with the same number)

INS 8002 THE LOST GENERATION "Your Mission (If You Decide To Accept It) Pts 1&2" (SM10026/27) 1974

Reached No. 65 in the US R&B/Soul Top 100. In-demand midtempo tune from a group who rarely put a foot wrong. Another goodie from the pens of Simon and Brownlee.

Multi Coloured Issue Pt1

Multi Coloured Issue Pt2

INS 8019 QUADRAPHONICS "Betcha If You Check it Out"/"Prove My Love To You" (SIL0046/47) 1974

(See WB 7826)

INS 8035 BARBARA HALL "Can I Count On You"/"V.I.P," (SIL0053/54) 1974

Two tremendous soul sides. 'Can' is a soulful swayer while Barbara's version of 'V.I.P.' has a nice 60's feel. Both tracks could well be played at most of today's soul venues - possibly the best release on the label?

INS 8045 SIR WALES (WALLACE) "Whatever You Want"/"l Wish I Could Say What I Want" (SIL0055/56) 1975

Original release of IV 9157

***(I missed this off the original article but put it right in Issue #15!)

***I've been told there are issues of this but I haven't seen one personally? I have seen double sided demos of 'Whatever' credited as both 'Sir Wales' AND 'Sir Wales Wallace' though!

INS 8047 SIMTEC SIMMONS "Some Other Time"/"Classified Crazy Man" (SIL0058/59) 1974

Reached No. 66 in the US R&B/Soul Top 100. 'Some' is another classic midtempo dancer while the flip is a funky dancer. (Also obtained a UK release on CONTEMPO in 1975)

IV 9157 WALES WALLACE 'Whatever You Want"/"l Wish I Could Say What I Want" 1975

'Whatever' must be the best 'in-vogue' dancer on the label; dubbed 'Son Of...Overdose Of Joy'. Another excellent ballad on the flip.

IV 9158 SIMTEC SIMMONS "Some Other Time"/"Classified Crazy Man" 1975

(See INS 8047)

IV 9159 EBONY RHYTHM FUNK CAMPAIGN "How's Your Wife (And My Child)"/"Oh Baby" 1975

Reached No. 68 in the R&B/Soul Top 100. 'How's' was so in-demand a year or so back. Midtempo guitar-led soulful builder with great lyrics. Flip is an OK funky dancer. (Also obtained a UK release on EMI in 1975)

IV 9160 LOST FAMILY "Pretty Face"/"Blow My Mind" 1974

Released originally on the tiny INT MUSIC BAG label, 'Pretty' is a nice ballad b/w 'Blow' the popular bustling dancer which saw Mecca dance floor action.

IV 9161 WINDY CITY "Good Guys Don't Always Win"/"We Party Heavy Up In Heah" 1975

'Good' is a great version of the Sam Dees classic song (which can also be found on their CHI SOUND album). Flip is a reasonable soul/funk dancer.

IV 9162 BARBARA HALL "Drop My Heart Off At The Door"/"You Brought It On Yourself" 1975

'Drop' is another Sam Dees original, a gem of a ballad b/w a great 70's dancer sounding similar to 5 Special 'The More I Get To Know You'. (Also obtained a UK release on EMI in 1975)

Multi Coloured Issue

Plain Green Issue

IV 9163 THUNDERFUNK SYMPHONY "40 Days And 40 Nights"/"Time To Discover" 1975

IV 9164 THUNDERFUNK SYMPHONY "Sky Blue"/"Hard Times" 1975

***Also obtained a UK release on EMI in 1975

IV 9165 PATTI DREW "The Mighty OJ (Vocal & Inst)" 1975

***Also obtained a UK release on CONTEMPO in 1975

The three duffers all appear one after another at the end of the label's releases, the Thunderfunk's being throwaway disco efforts while the Patti Drew is a funky chant about the American football giant O J Simpson.

***It was only recently that I realized that the 'UK only' 45 from 1975 on Contempo by Howeefeel "The devil's on the run"/"I just can't do without love (A thousand faces)" are actually INNOVATION II productions! Quite how it sneaked out over here is a mystery? 'Devil' is a funky groover that was quite popular in the London clubs at the time whereas 'I just' is a lovely soulful midtempo groover that has found favor with the Modern Soul collectors over the last few years!

This concludes my description of one of the most consistent 70's soul labels. Every one is available at prices that won't require a second mortgage and all (except the last three) are great examples of 70's Chicago soul, many of which have that 'in vogue' feel that echoes around many top clubs at the moment.

Steve Plumb

May 1990

***It would be good if folks could add any missing info to the article (or add to the descriptions) or post up scans of the labels (Issues, demos, logos, Warner Bros issues, UK issues etc) so we can build up a complete list of releases, descriptions & label scans.

Cheers

Steve Plumb

Oct 2008

Edited November 2, 2008 by Steve Plumb

[Guest Adrian]

INS 8002 THE LOST GENERATION "Your Mission (If You Decide To Accept It) Pts 1&2" (SM10026/27) 1974

Reached No. 65 in the US R&B/Soul Top 100. In-demand midtempo tune from a group who rarely put a foot wrong. Another goodie from the pens of Simon and Brownlee.

I am sure my copy is a demo with Pt1 on both sides.

Great label, Windy City - We Party Heavy is probably my fav track on the label (sure i put it on a soul-source cheapies cd swap) closely followed by the Quadraphonics, Lost Generation and Lost Family.

Also is the Wales Wallace the only 45 to be released with 2 label designs? One green red black and white and another plain green?

Edited October 28, 2008 by Adrian

[Tsu Tomatoes]

...................Deleted, 'cos I didn't read it properly!! Doh

Edited October 28, 2008 by tsu tomatoes

[Steve Plumb]

Also is the Wales Wallace the only 45 to be released with 2 label designs? One green red black and white and another plain green?

Hi Adrain

I think Simtec Simmons is both designs too?

Cheers

Steve

[Sebastian]

I think Simtec Simmons is both designs too?

Barbara Hall "You Brought..." as well. The all-green copy is vinyl, the other one is styrene.

[Steve Plumb]

Barbara Hall "You Brought..." as well. The all-green copy is vinyl, the other one is styrene.

Nice one Sebastian - you don't see the all green one as much as the one with a logo imho?

Let's be having some more scans and we can start putting them all together!

Cheers

Steve

[MikeHinNewJersey]

Thanks for posting this listing up....I've always picked up Innovation releases over the years

WB release of Quadraphonics....more to follow

[Stillsoulin]

Simtec Simmons definately on all green, no IV 9158. Green and red promo is vinyl, as is the Quadrophonics promo.

I have an issue copy of Sir Wales I Wish INS 8045.

I also have a white demo of Barbara Hall, Drop my heart off.

The last 3 releases I have only seen on all green, has anyone got them on green /red

Thanks for the listing Steve, a label I have collected for a while now and seem to have everything except the WB singles which I was unaware of untill a few weeks ago. I will try and scan in some labels for you.

cheers Rob h.

[45cellar]

Thanks for posting this listing up....I've always picked up Innovation releases over the years

WB release of Quadraphonics....more to follow

Edited October 29, 2008 by 45cellar

[MikeHinNewJersey]

Thanks for posting this listing up....I've always picked up Innovation releases over the years

WB release of Quadraphonics....more to follow

Barbara Hall INS 8035

[Platters 81]

on a slight tangent...anyone know the relationship/circumstances with the Quadrophonics 45 and Velvet on Perception...(one year earlier? )..slight change to chorus but essentially the same tune..(diff group? )

[Guest Adrian]

on a slight tangent...anyone know the relationship/circumstances with the Quadrophonics 45 and Velvet on Perception...(one year earlier? )..slight change to chorus but essentially the same tune..(diff group? )

On Manships site, its listed as the original version of the Quadraphonics?

[boba]

on a slight tangent...anyone know the relationship/circumstances with the Quadrophonics 45 and Velvet on Perception...(one year earlier? )..slight change to chorus but essentially the same tune..(diff group? )

Velvet is from Chicago, the Quadraphonics are from Milwaukee, there is no connection between the groups. Harvey Scales managed the Quadraphonics. I haven't confirmed this, but I think Velvet evolved out of the Flairs.

[45cellar]

on a slight tangent...anyone know the relationship/circumstances with the Quadrophonics 45 and Velvet on Perception...(one year earlier? )..slight change to chorus but essentially the same tune..(diff group? )

Thanks for asking this Question, been wondering the same.

I was going to ask, but couldn't find my copy of Velvet to the check credits / date.

Notice the writing partners are different Jim Porter being the constant.

Edited October 29, 2008 by 45cellar

[MikeHinNewJersey]

Thanks for asking this Question, been wondering the same.

I was going to ask, but couldn't find my copy of Velvet to the check credits / date.

Notice the writing partners are different Jim Porter being the constant.

.........and Sherman Nesberry?

Jim Porter produced/arranged both sides.

Presumably these are the same guys that recorded on Cheri Records...Sherm Nesbary "Don't Make Me Sorry (For Loving You)"

[45cellar]

.........and Sherman Nesberry?

Jim Porter produced/arranged both sides.

Presumably these are the same guys that recorded on Cheri Records...Sherm Nesbary "Don't Make Me Sorry (For Loving You)"

Sorry, my tired eyes just got up (Work Nights).

Yes and Sherman Nesberry (writing credits) missed that.

Just wondering looking at the two records.

• Produced & Arranged by Jim Porter.
  

• Arrangers George Williams and Jim Porter.
  

Thinking now on the lines of actually being there during recording.

Would this still be the only connection between the two.

Jim Porter taking his (joint composition) to another group.

Edited October 29, 2008 by 45cellar

[boba]

Sorry, my tired eyes just got up (Work Nights).

Yes and Sherman Nesberry (writing credits) missed that.

Just wondering looking at the two records.

• Produced & Arranged by Jim Porter.
  

• Arrangers George Williams and Jim Porter.
  

Thinking now on the lines of actually being there during recording.

Would this still be the only connection between the two.

Jim Porter taking his (joint composition) to another group.

jim porter had a deal with perception, he previously took the eight minutes to the label.

[Guest Nick Harrison]

jim porter had a deal with perception, he previously took the eight minutes to the label.

Thank god someone has mentioned the perception label - velvet is ok, but for years, who else has been ashamed to play the eight minutes 45 - junior jackson five meets the stylistics including musical youth. Shocking recording. . .

[Guest Adrian]

Thank god someone has mentioned the perception label - velvet is ok, but for years, who else has been ashamed to play the eight minutes 45 - junior jackson five meets the stylistics including musical youth. Shocking recording. . .

And off topic really but kinda related, theres a track on the lp which has the same backing as Derek Martin Might Right is that Jim Porter related too? Will have to check my lp against the 45...

[Guest taffy]

Hi steve here's an issue of sir wales INS 8045,also 2 uk emi acetates of Barbara Hall,vip vocal and inst. and Barbara Hall,My heart sings a symphony vocal and inst.Anyone know if these were issued in the uk or the usa with instrumental flipsides.Both discs were recorded april 73 mixed by NG done in the same session presumably.

[boba]

Thank god someone has mentioned the perception label - velvet is ok, but for years, who else has been ashamed to play the eight minutes 45 - junior jackson five meets the stylistics including musical youth. Shocking recording. . .

which eight minutes 45s are you talking about? there are a bunch and there are 2 on perception. anyways, the eight minutes are good, I'm not sure what track you're talking about.

[Soul Shrews]

which eight minutes 45s are you talking about? there are a bunch and there are 2 on perception. anyways, the eight minutes are good, I'm not sure what track you're talking about.

Talkin" 'bout "Looking For A Brand New Game" I reckon Bob. Nice record IMVHO.

Cheers Paul

[boba]

Talkin" 'bout "Looking For A Brand New Game" I reckon Bob. Nice record IMVHO.

Cheers Paul

I like the "next time he'll be good" 45 on perception also. The lp also has a nice version of cindy and the playmates on kemp.

[Sean Hampsey]

Talkin" 'bout "Looking For A Brand New Game" I reckon Bob. Nice record IMVHO.

Cheers Paul

Agree Paul.

Great little tune.

Hugely indemand in its day too.

Always thought they had a sound more reminiscent of the 'Stairsteps' rather than the 'Jacksons'...

...and absolutely nothing like the Stylistics to these ears.

Just no acounting for taste is there

Edited October 30, 2008 by Sean Hampsey

[boba]

Agree Paul.

Great little tune.

Hugely indemand in its day too.

Always thought they had a sound more reminiscent of the 'Stairsteps' rather than the 'Jacksons'...

...and absolutely nothing like the Stylistics to these ears.

Just no acounting for taste is there

plus when did "the stylistics" become an insult?

[Sean Hampsey]

plus when did "the stylistics" become an insult?

Again, never to me Bob.

Always loved "Betcha By Golly Wow" "Point Of No Return" "Only For The Children" etc.

Taste is a funny old thing though isn't it. Certainly on this side of the pond they were seen as a bit too 'sugary' by the Soul fraternity but sold in the skip load to the Pop buying public.

Sean

[MikeHinNewJersey]

[Steve Plumb]

Hi All

Thanks for all the feedback - been a tad busy this week but will pull it all together real soon so all the scans match the label listing!

Some good stuff so far

Velvet - yeah that needs to be mentioned as it is an earlier version of Quadrophonics isn't it!

Something else struck me today - 'Blow my mind' by The Lost Family, I'm sure is included on an LP by someone else? I'm sure i didn't dream it but can't for the life of me think of the LP? Think it was slightly different to the 45's too? Anyone?

Cheers

Steve

[Steve Plumb]

Hi steve here's an issue of sir wales INS 8045,also 2 uk emi acetates of Barbara Hall,vip vocal and inst. and Barbara Hall,My heart sings a symphony vocal and inst.Anyone know if these were issued in the uk or the usa with instrumental flipsides.Both discs were recorded april 73 mixed by NG done in the same session presumably.

Hi Taffy

Thanks for the Wales Wallace issue

.....BUT what the heck are those acetates???????

VIP wasn't issued in the UK to my knowledge and I've never heard of the instrumental?

As for t'other one - you got me mate - what's it like?

Have you any other info on them? If they are they EMI acetates maybe they were intended for release after the EMI issue of 'You brought it on yourself/Drop my heart off?????

So many questions............

Cheers

Steve

Edited October 30, 2008 by Steve Plumb

[Guest Nick Harrison]

Hi All

Velvet - yeah that needs to be mentioned as it is an earlier version of Quadrophonics isn't it!

Cheers

Steve

Yes.

Edited October 30, 2008 by Nick Harrison

[Guest Adrian]

Something else struck me today - 'Blow my mind' by The Lost Family, I'm sure is included on an LP by someone else? I'm sure i didn't dream it but can't for the life of me think of the LP? Think it was slightly different to the 45's too? Anyone?

Your right Steve, Saborian & The Los on Kama records, think they are the same people....instrumental version of Blow my Mind & pretty Face. Lp is called Somrthings Happend to Suzie

Its out of Chicago so assume its correct that the same people involved.

Edited October 30, 2008 by Adrian

[Steve Plumb]

Your right Steve, Saborian & The Los on Kama records, think they are the same people....instrumental version of Blow my Mind & pretty Face. Lp is called Somrthings Happend to Suzie

Its out of Chicago so assume its correct that the same people involved.

Aah instrumental version - yes, it's all coming back to me now!

Cheers

Steve

[boba]

Your right Steve, Saborian & The Los on Kama records, think they are the same people....instrumental version of Blow my Mind & pretty Face. Lp is called Somrthings Happend to Suzie

Its out of Chicago so assume its correct that the same people involved.

it is the same group, it's 2 of the CODs plus Stormy (who recorded on twinight). You can hear the interview on my webpage (www.sittinginthepark.com/interviews.html).

[Soul Shrews]

Talkin" 'bout "Looking For A Brand New Game" I reckon Bob. Nice record IMVHO.

Cheers Paul

To my ears the intro to this sounds the same as David Martin "You're Mighty Right" on Rekord

Cheers (seriously big Stylistics fan ) Paul

PS "People Make The World Go Round"

[boba]

To my ears the intro to this sounds the same as David Martin "You're Mighty Right" on Rekord

Cheers (seriously big Stylistics fan

) Paul

PS "People Make The World Go Round"

jim porter was involved with the david martin record also. it also came out twice on jay pee. i think they are 3 different versions. david martin was the lead singer of the chymes, the girls on the rekord record are his sisters.

[boba]

Velvet is from Chicago, the Quadraphonics are from Milwaukee, there is no connection between the groups. Harvey Scales managed the Quadraphonics. I haven't confirmed this, but I think Velvet evolved out of the Flairs.

If anyone cares, I just did confirm that Velvet evolved out of the Flairs (there were two common members by the time the records were recorded), and I'll be interviewing the lead, Kennis Jones, on my show at the end of this month, it will be on my webpage and I'll post it in the media section when it happens.

[45cellar]

If anyone cares, I just did confirm that Velvet evolved out of the Flairs (there were two common members by the time the records were recorded), and I'll be interviewing the lead, Kennis Jones, on my show at the end of this month, it will be on my webpage and I'll post it in the media section when it happens.

Many Thanks for this Information.

I love to find things out beyond the Music we enjoy.

Looking forward to Interview,.

[Soul Shrews]

jim porter was involved with the david martin record also. it also came out twice on jay pee. i think they are 3 different versions. david martin was the lead singer of the chymes, the girls on the rekord record are his sisters.

If anyone cares, I just did confirm that Velvet evolved out of the Flairs (there were two common members by the time the records were recorded), and I'll be interviewing the lead, Kennis Jones, on my show at the end of this month, it will be on my webpage and I'll post it in the media section when it happens.

Yes many thanks for the info boba

Cheers Paul

[Daved]

Steve,

Thanks for starting this thread. Very interesting. I've got a Wales Wallace issue too. I can't remember what's on the flip but I'll dig it out later.

[galaxy]

the wales wallace might be my fave on this logo. here attached a green lbl version on styrene

[Jim Elliott]

Thanks for all this info guys, always had a bit of a thing for this label, great to get a bit more info on it all, the 'ol Ebony track always get's an airing at home and is not the Wales Wallace single the bargain of the century??

ta again

Jim

[Soul Shrews]

A couple more for ya Steve

[att

achment=56234:How_s_yo...y_child_.JPG]

Cheers Paul

[Soul Shrews]

Oops , sorry

Whats the story with the Barbara Hall green/black 45 then?

East/West coast press? Nothside/Southside press?

Or did they just run outta red ink at the printers?

Love this thread Mr Plumb Looking forward to the Desert Moon thread Oh yes

Cheers Paul

[45cellar]

Just found my VELVET Copy on Perception.

It's a DEMO

[John Reed]

Barbara Hall "You Brought..." as well. The all-green copy is vinyl, the other one is styrene.

I've got an all green one and when I first got it, I thought it was a boot.....

I felt quite dumb when I checked. But then again, nobody knows everything, or do they?

Edited November 3, 2008 by John Reed

[Steve Plumb]

Been trying to add the scans that folks have posted into the original post but have only managed a couple as I don't understand how some of the attachments work? I can see the path on some but not on others? Have done a couple and will try and add more plus i will post up some scans of my own to get a full picture of the label listing, descriptions & scans of the label all in the one article.

Bit busy at the moment and not getting much SS time, so will get round to it when i can.

Rod at Voices doesn't have a problem with me publishing these articles so might do some of the other labels i did for Voices back in the day when time allows! (IX Chains etc)

Cheers

Steve

[boba]

Been trying to add the scans that folks have posted into the original post but have only managed a couple as I don't understand how some of the attachments work? I can see the path on some but not on others? Have done a couple and will try and add more plus i will post up some scans of my own to get a full picture of the label listing, descriptions & scans of the label all in the one article.

Bit busy at the moment and not getting much SS time, so will get round to it when i can.

Rod at Voices doesn't have a problem with me publishing these articles so might do some of the other labels i did for Voices back in the day when time allows! (IX Chains etc)

Cheers

Steve

I have white label promos of some of the titles, plus a weird one of windy city "good guys don't always win" where the b-side label is blank with the titles hand written.

[Steve Plumb]

I have white label promos of some of the titles, plus a weird one of windy city "good guys don't always win" where the b-side label is blank with the titles hand written.

Hi Bob

Any scans that anyone sends up i'll try to insert them all into the main post..............i even have the wierd Thunderfunk 45's & the Patti Drew 45 which i'll scan in and post up. The UK releases would be good too!

Cheers

Steve

[Paul McKay]

Hi Bob

Any scans that anyone sends up i'll try to insert them all into the main post..............i even have the wierd Thunderfunk 45's & the Patti Drew 45 which i'll scan in and post up. The UK releases would be good too!

Cheers

Steve

Hi Steve

I can do some of them for you - B Hall, ERFC etc. Will try and do them tonight.

Cheers

Paul

[Steve Plumb]

Hi Steve

I can do some of them for you - B Hall, ERFC etc. Will try and do them tonight.

Cheers

Paul

Cheers Paul

See you in Bilbao

Cheers

Steve