Set Times

[Barry]

Just wondering what the script is with a dj's lot at Nighters today?

[Barry]

Oh! And is that long enough do you think?

[Chalky]

Usually an hour. Too many dj's at allnighters these days.. should be fewer with longer sets IMO That way rather than play the 20 or so biggies in the play box he can (or she) be a bit more adventurous and feature other material.

[Barry]

Usually an hour. Too many dj's at allnighters these days.. should be fewer with longer sets IMO That way rather than play the 20 or so biggies in the play box he can (or she) be a bit more adventurous and feature other material.

I agree, a longer set would make the dj work a little more for their dancefloor - a shorter set surely must contain a jock somewhat.

A set at a nighter has always struck me as nothing much more than a showcase hour, a place where certain prized wares go on display and I'm not saying there's anything inheritantly wrong with that - it ensures a top quality set (maybe?).

But it kind of restricts the lad/lady playing the records I would have thought - with a longer set he could explore styles and tempo's a little better.

On the house scene, you know how long a set can go on for, as the structure of that set - in comparison to a NS set - is completely different - and I've witnessed very few house sets that I believe could rival a random NS set for record for record quality.

But the times I have witnessed someone do it correctly, it's been stunning.

I don't know if I'm saying that the Soul scene is too caught up with 'flash-frying' it's dancers or that the House scene is in general more able to be lazy with it's delivery.

What I am saying is that give people more time and you may get more quality, as when a good balance is reached the results and performance can be fantastic.

Don't take this thread as a knock, it'll probably change nothing, it is just here as a conversation piece.

[Guest]

I agree, a longer set would make the dj work a little more for their dancefloor - a shorter set surely must contain a jock somewhat.

A set at a nighter has always struck me as nothing much more than a showcase hour, a place where certain prized wares go on display and I'm not saying there's anything inheritantly wrong with that - it ensures a top quality set (maybe?).

But it kind of restricts the lad/lady playing the records I would have thought - with a longer set he could explore styles and tempo's a little better.

On the house scene, you know how long a set can go on for, as the structure of that set - in comparison to a NS set - is completely different - and I've witnessed very few house sets that I believe could rival a random NS set for record for record quality.

But the times I have witnessed someone do it correctly, it's been stunning.

I don't know if I'm saying that the Soul scene is too caught up with 'flash-frying' it's dancers or that the House scene is in general more able to be lazy with it's delivery.

What I am saying is that give people more time and you may get more quality, as when a good balance is reached the results and performance can be fantastic.

Don't take this thread as a knock, it'll probably change nothing, it is just here as a conversation piece.

An hour playing Northern 7'S can feel like a lifetime listening to some Dj's Bazza

[Barry]

An hour playing Northern 7'S can feel like a lifetime listening to some Dj's Bazza

Well best they get practising with longer sets Ton.

[Guest Beeks]

Yeah the hour rule does perplex me somewhat...I think it's very much a Northern thing...personally I think you need at least 2 hours to build a set and in the past i've done 4 hours in one stint.

Saying that though...suppose the Northern Soul scene is not about building up to a crescendo...other such genres start slowly and build up the pace to work a crowd...completely different in Northern sets where the individual records pretty much stand up on their own merit.

So maybe an hour is about right.

Edited October 23, 2008 by Beeks

[Barry]

Yeah the hour rule does perplex me somewhat...I think it's very much a Northern thing...personally I think you need at least 2 hours to build a set and in the past i've done 4 hours in one stint.

Saying that though...suppose the Northern Soul scene is not about building up to a creschendo...other such genres start slowly and build up the pace to work a crowd...completely different in Northern sets where the individual records pretty much stand up on their own merit.

So maybe an hour is about right.

I see the 'crescendo' argument as a false one if I'm honest, it's moved on from that.

[Guest]

I see the 'crescendo' argument as a false one if I'm honest, it's moved on from that.

Different drugs too. The mdma goes for a slow build. With Speed you just wanna get on with it

[Barry]

Different drugs too. The mdma goes for a slow build. With Speed you just wanna get on with it

Drug addict.

[Guest Beeks]

I see the 'crescendo' argument as a false one if I'm honest, it's moved on from that.

The Crescendo Arguement?

Sounds like a Matt Damon film to me

[Barry]

The Crescendo Arguement?

Sounds like a Matt Damon film to me

Ooops

[Prophonics 2029]

The Crescendo Arguement?

Sounds like a Matt Damon film to me

Or some contemporary avant-garde re make of the life and times of Stravinsky.

NB check out his The Firebird

[Barry]

Or some contemporary avant-garde re make of the life and times of Stravinsky.

NB check out his The Firebird

Oh don't drag it into that territory lads - it's a bloody question that's all.

[Guest]

Yeah the hour rule does perplex me somewhat...I think it's very much a Northern thing...personally I think you need at least 2 hours to build a set and in the past i've done 4 hours in one stint.

Saying that though...suppose the Northern Soul scene is not about building up to a crescendo...other such genres start slowly and build up the pace to work a crowd...completely different in Northern sets where the individual records pretty much stand up on their own merit.

So maybe an hour is about right.

yeh I reckon an hour's right in northern rooms, maybe 90 minutes in modern rooms perhaps. 99% of modern DJ's I've asked think an hour isn't long enough for them.

I agree with Chalky, too many DJ's on (guilty! !)

The thing that annoys me more than anything are DJs who all want to DJ at the 'top of the night'. Slightly different angle (ok probably OT) but what happened to the days where the majority of DJs were happy to take the bookings & pleased to be invited to DJ whatever spot they're given?.

There are some who still are and I love these guys but there are so many who will try to engineer the situation on the night so they either have to arrive late (avoiding the early spots) leave early, or generally complain or show their disappointment if they dont get top spot.

If you're booked in advance, you should pencil out the entire evening. Leaving early / arriving late is bad manners and often leads to duplication of tracks.

There are so many DJ's out there who would love to be dj'ing, I dont understand why some folks moan about the times they're given either.

hey, this is cool, it's like therapy! LOL

Jayne.x

[Barry]

The thing that annoys me more than anything are DJs who all want to DJ at the 'top of the night'

I've fell foul of this, a 'mate' of 22 years ended up in me face with his fists up as he thought he should have been given the set after the one he got.

I used to brush up and put the tables out at certain venues before happily playing records (for nowt).

[Chalky]

I agree, a longer set would make the dj work a little more for their dancefloor - a shorter set surely must contain a jock somewhat.

A set at a nighter has always struck me as nothing much more than a showcase hour, a place where certain prized wares go on display and I'm not saying there's anything inheritantly wrong with that - it ensures a top quality set (maybe?).

But it kind of restricts the lad/lady playing the records I would have thought - with a longer set he could explore styles and tempo's a little better.

On the house scene, you know how long a set can go on for, as the structure of that set - in comparison to a NS set - is completely different - and I've witnessed very few house sets that I believe could rival a random NS set for record for record quality.

But the times I have witnessed someone do it correctly, it's been stunning.

I don't know if I'm saying that the Soul scene is too caught up with 'flash-frying' it's dancers or that the House scene is in general more able to be lazy with it's delivery.

What I am saying is that give people more time and you may get more quality, as when a good balance is reached the results and performance can be fantastic.

Don't take this thread as a knock, it'll probably change nothing, it is just here as a conversation piece.

I would say that the soul scene is lazy with it's delivery, has been for many years now with most dj's trotting out the same stuff. Less DJ's with longer sets would sort the good from the bad and make the bad become better therefore increasing the quality and diversity of the music all round.

I'd be in favour of just three or four DJ's at an all-nighter with sets of two hours plus each. Soul nights give the guest three hours with someone doing the early hour and the last hour of a five hour soul night.

If nothing else we would find out just who are the good dj's.

[Barry]

I would say that the soul scene is lazy with it's delivery, has been for many years now with most dj's trotting out the same stuff. Less DJ's with longer sets would sort the good from the bad and make the bad become better therefore increasing the quality and diversity of the music all round.

I'd be in favour of just three or four DJ's at an all-nighter with sets of two hours plus each. Soul nights give the guest three hours with someone doing the early hour and the last hour of a five hour soul night.

If nothing else we would find out just who are the good dj's.

I agree.

[Pete Eccles]

I would say that the soul scene is lazy with it's delivery, has been for many years now with most dj's trotting out the same stuff. Less DJ's with longer sets would sort the good from the bad and make the bad become better therefore increasing the quality and diversity of the music all round.

I'd be in favour of just three or four DJ's at an all-nighter with sets of two hours plus each. Soul nights give the guest three hours with someone doing the early hour and the last hour of a five hour soul night.

If nothing else we would find out just who are the good dj's.

Chalky, I can't see this working in practice, due to lack of diversity, most DJ's have a leaning towards a certain style, and to have a soul night revolving around a single DJ's style would put as many off as it would attract IMO, whereas 2 or 3 DJ's of contrasting styles would appeal to a wider audience, well that's how i see it,

[Barry]

most DJ's have a leaning towards a certain style

Isn't that a bit of a damning statement?

[Pete Eccles]

Isn't that a bit of a damning statement?

Why? Am i wrong in saying DJ's differ in their content? Would be a boring scene if i am,

[Barry]

Why? Am i wrong in saying DJ's differ in their content? Would be a boring scene if i am,

I'm not having a pop, I see what you are saying.

Maybe that's why NS jocks are best left to an hour, as they are unable to keep a cross section of people happy for longer than an hour!?

[Guest dundeedavie]

but there are so many who will try to engineer the situation on the night so they either have to arrive late (avoiding the early spots) leave early, or generally complain or show their disappointment if they dont get top spot.

If you're booked in advance, you should pencil out the entire evening. Leaving early / arriving late is bad manners and often leads to duplication of tracks.

There are so many DJ's out there who would love to be dj'ing, I dont understand why some folks moan about the times they're given either.

hey, this is cool, it's like therapy! LOL

Jayne.x

That situation is down to the promoters ....when you book a dj you tell them in advance what times they are on and what they will get paid ...and if they arrive late they don't go on. Promoters need to be more professional .

As for dj times i don't think longer sets are the answer but more sets giving the dj a chance to alter styles if they are able to do so

[Chalky]

Chalky, I can't see this working in practice, due to lack of diversity, most DJ's have a leaning towards a certain style, and to have a soul night revolving around a single DJ's style would put as many off as it would attract IMO, whereas 2 or 3 DJ's of contrasting styles would appeal to a wider audience, well that's how i see it,

I disagree with you. The majority of the DJ's are collectors and collect all styles. They get put in a position that because they only get an hour that they are forced to play the biggies and indemanders, they aren't allowed to anythging else really. The likes of Butch, Andy Dyson, Mick H, Kitch, Arthuir, Sam etc can play right across the board and do so, 60's, 70's oldies, newies whatever.

Butch is getting asked quite a bit to do two, three and four hour sets, he's good enough and has a collection that can cater for all tastes, I know plenty of others who can do the same as well. Like I said it would then be up to others to show what they can do. Those who can't fall by the wayside and lets face it that can't be a bad thing.

Lets face it most soul venues aren't that diverse, basically 60's and 70's soul music, can't be too much to ask a dj to mix it up a bit can it????

Edited October 23, 2008 by chalky

[Barry]

I disagree with you. The majority of the DJ's are collectors and collect all styles. They get put in a position that because they only get an hour that they are forced to play the biggies and indemanders, they aren't allowed to anythging else really. The likes of Butch, Andy Dyson, Mick H, Kitch, Arthuir, Sam etc can play right across the board and do so, 60's, 70's oldies, newies whatever.

Butch is getting asked quite a bit to do two, three and four hour sets, he's good enough and has a collection that can cater for all tastes, I know plenty of others who can do the same as well. Like I said it would then be up to others to show what they can do. Those who can't fall by the wayside and lets face it that can't be a bad thing.

You're still talking sense to me.

[Pete Eccles]

I'm not having a pop, I see what you are saying.

Maybe that's why NS jocks are best left to an hour, as they are unable to keep a cross section of people happy for longer than an hour!?

Exactly what i was trying to say, not saying they are unable that's down to whoever the DJ may be, there are DJ's i would be happy to listen to all night, whereas others a hour seems like all night, to each their own so to speak,

[Barry]

Exactly what i was trying to say, not saying they are unable that's down to whoever the DJ may be, there are DJ's i would be happy to listen to all night, whereas others a hour seems like all night, to each their own so to speak,

Okay.

If that's the case then Chalky is right by stating that the ones that are unable to hold a floors attention over and above their comfort zone should drop by the wayside?

[Pete Eccles]

I disagree with you. The majority of the DJ's are collectors and collect all styles. They get put in a position that because they only get an hour that they are forced to play the biggies and indemanders, they aren't allowed to anythging else really. The likes of Butch, Andy Dyson, Mick H, Kitch, Arthuir, Sam etc can play right across the board and do so, 60's, 70's oldies, newies whatever.

Butch is getting asked quite a bit to do two, three and four hour sets, he's good enough and has a collection that can cater for all tastes, I know plenty of others who can do the same as well. Like I said it would then be up to others to show what they can do. Those who can't fall by the wayside and lets face it that can't be a bad thing.

Lets face it most soul venues aren't that diverse, basically 60's and 70's soul music, can't be too much to ask a dj to mix it up a bit can it????

I highlighted 'soul nights' in your previous post, and with that in mind we will have to agree to disagree,

[Pete Eccles]

Okay.

If that's the case then Chalky is right by stating that the ones that are unable to hold a floors attention over and above their comfort zone should drop by the wayside?

Barry, i am not being drawn into naming individuals, it's just my opinion that most well known DJ's being given the majority of a soul night's play time would make some happy, some not, and vice versa, it's just how it is,fickle i know but some DJ's can do no wrong to some and can do no right to others,

[Chalky]

I highlighted 'soul nights' in your previous post, and with that in mind we will have to agree to disagree,

only just noticed but like I said most soul nights especially are oldies based, with the odd 70's northern and with the guest who normally does and hour throwing in some biggies? I would think most DJ's can cater for that. Like I said most DJ's get known for playing a certain style, basically because they aren't given the time to expand or diversify. I would say that given the chance there are plenty of DJ's who could rise to the challenge....there's also plenty who would fall by the wayside too.

The trouble for me is with a five hour soul night and five DJ's, maybe 4 if the promoter does first and last set, there's little option to play a varied night as like Barry says the majority of DJ's would stay in their comfort zone, afraid to try something different, that to me is lazy djing. Like Jayne said, it's down to the promoters if change was to happen but most promoters are afraid to move away from the comfort zone too.

[Barry]

Barry, i am not being drawn into naming individuals, it's just my opinion that most well known DJ's being given the majority of a soul night's play time would make some happy, some not, and vice versa, it's just how it is,fickle i know but some DJ's can do no wrong to some and can do no right to others,

I would think you were barking if you named individuals Pete.

I hear where you're coming from but I do think the formatting of nighters need a shake up - it's like 15 records, clap and off, thanks very much.

The scene has all these empassioned collectors and none of 'em appear to me to be utilised to their fullest, think of where they could go given the time.

It's a waste.

[Barry]

As someone stated earlier on the NS scene the records/productions stand up on their own, therefore how much 'dj' are you actually seeing - yes, they may have a fantastic mic manner etc but is al lot of the hard work done by the scarcity/hot-box-ness of the vinyl they play and not their soulful musical versatilty?

[paup-ine]

I hear where you're coming from but I do think the formatting of nighters need a shake up - it's like 15 records, clap and off, thanks very much.

-------------

It used to P me off when a big name DJ did his bit at peak hour, then packs up and leaves accross the

dance floor, 'done his bit now good bye', leaving you feel on a downer when you looked forward to seeing

that person, made you feel like leaving as well!

P

[Modernsoulsucks]

As someone stated earlier on the NS scene the records/productions stand up on their own, therefore how much 'dj' are you actually seeing - yes, they may have a fantastic mic manner etc but is al lot of the hard work done by the scarcity/hot-box-ness of the vinyl they play and not their soulful musical versatilty?

I was thinking something along those lines. If the dj's compliment each other and let's take Chalky's "dream" line-up wouldn't it seem like a continuous spot anyway, where the dj's build on what has gone before.

As Chalky states those dj's play his 60's/70's cross section anyway so what difference does the length of the spot make other than fitting more records into it.

I know nowt about house scene that Barry cites but Im assuming that a 4 hour marathon would not really vary in style that much in comparison to say Sam playing everything from 60's to current releases. If you actually listen to something like that it's not exactly the seamless join that I imagine a house spot would be, so wouldn't it be difficult to create an atmosphere/vibe for an entire set.

Im really not a fan of modern [surprise] so the change in styles does come across as rather jarring to me but I accept that if you're a fan of both you might not find it so.

ROD

Nothing against the proposal but it does smack of re-arranging the deckchairs....

Edited October 23, 2008 by modernsoulsucks

[Guest Mrs Simsy]

Usually an hour. Too many dj's at allnighters these days.. should be fewer with longer sets IMO That way rather than play the 20 or so biggies in the play box he can (or she) be a bit more adventurous and feature other material.

Some DJs are getting 45 minute spots which doesn't seem enough. I agree with you Chalky, i've been at nighters where the DJ has really got the crowd eating of out his or her hand, only to be replaced at the stroke of the hour with another DJ who doesn't quite do the same thing.

[Guest]

That situation is down to the promoters ....when you book a dj you tell them in advance what times they are on and what they will get paid ...and if they arrive late they don't go on. Promoters need to be more professional .

As for dj times i don't think longer sets are the answer but more sets giving the dj a chance to alter styles if they are able to do so

I know. . I totally agree.. but bloody annoying!... and quite difficult, especially if you're mates with said DJ's.

Nowt worse than managing your mates.

SO not longer sets but more? so like, half an hour early, half an hour later on? that kind of thing? I think they do that at the DDA.

Jayne.x

[Barry]

I understand why venues and promoters of smaller venues do it, I've done it meself but there seems to be no shaking the routine on the NS scene.

[Guest]

only just noticed but like I said most soul nights especially are oldies based, with the odd 70's northern and with the guest who normally does and hour throwing in some biggies? I would think most DJ's can cater for that. Like I said most DJ's get known for playing a certain style, basically because they aren't given the time to expand or diversify. I would say that given the chance there are plenty of DJ's who could rise to the challenge....there's also plenty who would fall by the wayside too.

The trouble for me is with a five hour soul night and five DJ's, maybe 4 if the promoter does first and last set, there's little option to play a varied night as like Barry says the majority of DJ's would stay in their comfort zone, afraid to try something different, that to me is lazy djing. Like Jayne said, it's down to the promoters if change was to happen but most promoters are afraid to move away from the comfort zone too.

ooh tough one.. I see what you mean. Interesting theory and you're probably right. I guess it's finding the promoter's brave enough to try it.

Very very few promotors please the entire crowd all the time. If you've got a DJ doing an hour, those who aren't so keen only have to wait an hour until you can change the style of what's being played etc. 2 hour sets would double the moaning I reckon.

I know what Pete means too. If I saw certain Dj's down to play two hours at nighters I'd be disappointed and probably get bored. It'd either be great or a disaster, I know the records are the same genre etc, but people have their own style and some are better than others at putting it together ( which goes back to what you were saying about showing up the best from the rest..)

Jayne.x

[Guest]

Some DJs are getting 45 minute spots which doesn't seem enough. I agree with you Chalky, i've been at nighters where the DJ has really got the crowd eating of out his or her hand, only to be replaced at the stroke of the hour with another DJ who doesn't quite do the same thing.

I think it works both ways... I can think of as many instances where I've been bored waiting for the next guy to come on. Niters that is, not really soul nights.

Jayne.x

[Guest]

Chalky, I can't see this working in practice, due to lack of diversity, most DJ's have a leaning towards a certain style, and to have a soul night revolving around a single DJ's style would put as many off as it would attract IMO, whereas 2 or 3 DJ's of contrasting styles would appeal to a wider audience, well that's how i see it,

yep, me too.

[Jumpinjoan]

I know. . I totally agree.. but bloody annoying!... and quite difficult, especially if you're mates with said DJ's.

Nowt worse than managing your mates.

SO not longer sets but more? so like, half an hour early, half an hour later on? that kind of thing? I think they do that at the DDA.

Jayne.x

Yeah we do half hour sets.

Mainly because it gives everyone a chance at a decent time.

We do resident, guest, resident, guest, with each resident and each of the two guests getting 2 x half hour sets each.

Not for every venue - but it seems to suit our night

[Guest Beeks]

Yeah we do half hour sets.

Fook me Joan that's a really short time!

Does that not piss off your guest DJs? That's only a handful of records...might as well play one on one off

[Barry]

...might as well play one on one off

Not a bad idea, it always seems to work on other scenes as you are always trying to best the last record played.

I've just pictured Searling and Sam, one on - one off - now that's funny - just think of the techno fear involved with Sam meeting the Uber-cool Soul Dog.

[Jumpinjoan]

Fook me Joan that's a really short time!

Does that not piss off your guest DJs? That's only a handful of records...might as well play one on one off

No like I said... its not for every venue... but it suits us.

Then again, we are only a soul night.

As for pissing our guests off... I think a 9 - 10 spot might piss them off more.

[Jumpinjoan]

Plus you could say that any DJ worth his salt should be able to work with that amount of time

[Guest]

No like I said... its not for every venue... but it suits us.

Then again, we are only a soul night.

As for pissing our guests off... I think a 9 - 10 spot might piss them off more.

absolutely - they wont moan if they know they've a chance to play again later, possibly to a busier crowd.

From a 'punter's' point of view I think the half hour spots at places like DDA. I get bored easily if I hear too much I dont know in one sitting and some DJ's will play stuff I know and vice versa, it means I'm only at most, bored for half an hour. I think it helps introduce the not so open minded to newer sounds. Give people like me an hour of it and I'll switch off, just a few and I'll stick around and see what the next guy has to offer.

imo anyway!.

Jayne.x

[Guest]

Does that not piss off your guest DJs? That's only a handful of records...might as well play one on one off

Double decking - they do it successfully at Middleton I believe. Is it the christmas niter or the anniversary niter where Andy had all his residents on

and I'm sure I read that they double decked. I certainly didn't hear any complaints on the grapevine.

I've seen DJ's have a right laugh double decking. Makes it harder to put the set together and makes DJ's think a bit.. sounds good to me..

Jayne.x

[Guest Beeks]

Plus you could say that any DJ worth his salt should be able to work with that amount of time

I'm sure they can work that amount of time...whether they would be happy about it is another thing entirely

I know what you mean about the early slots though...noone wants them!

[Guest Beeks]

Double decking - they do it successfully at Middleton I believe. Is it the christmas niter or the anniversary niter where Andy had all his residents on

and I'm sure I read that they double decked. I certainly didn't hear any complaints on the grapevine.

I've seen DJ's have a right laugh double decking. Makes it harder to put the set together and makes DJ's think a bit.. sounds good to me..

Jayne.x

One on one off is thoroughly enjoyable in the right environment tis true

I'm not familiar with the reference Double Decking but I imagine that is what you are referring to

[Little-stevie]

Double decking - they do it successfully at Middleton I believe. Is it the christmas niter or the anniversary niter where Andy had all his residents on

and I'm sure I read that they double decked. I certainly didn't hear any complaints on the grapevine.

I've seen DJ's have a right laugh double decking. Makes it harder to put the set together and makes DJ's think a bit.. sounds good to me..

Jayne.x

And i have seen dj sound pretty flat as they can't get a flow with the other gimp killing it for him ..

Short sets?? long sets?? sometimes one other times another..

I think the 1 hour set for a niter is still the best... You just make sure the best djs are playing the main hours when folk .. But who is judge who the best are???? the punters or the promoter... Maybe thats another topic..