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The Masqueraders


Guest hammy

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I concur - everything they did had a fantastic level of QUALITY that few acts could match.

My personal favourite is Please Take Me Back on Bell (t'other side of How Big Is Big).

As a vocalist Lee Jones had few equals, possibly only Marvin Junior of The Dells.

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What about the Magnetics that later became the Volumes?? (think I remember reading they were fronted by Billy Kenedy)

"Lady in green"/"Heart you're made of stone" (Magnetics) - one of the best double-siders IMO

"Same old feeling" (Volumes) - fairly new to me but bloody AWESOOOOOOOME

"Ain't gonna give you up" (Volumes) - their last and best

Them uns is my three faves, can't bring any more to mind at the moment (well it is late!)

:shhh:

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Just listening to them - jesus ... they were good. Best all male outfit of them all ?  :shhh:   :excl:   :)

Hammy

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how would you know what's good , you support hibs.but seriously

are you coming to the all-dayer on sunday?.

Edited by gogs
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Falcons aswell, can't think of a bad single by them.....

"I'm a fool"

"Love love love"

"Good good feeling"

"Love you like you've never been loved"

"Got to make a move" (my fave :shhh: )

"Has it happened to you yet"

"Love look in her eyes"

"I can't help it"

"Standing on guard"

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although same of it's a bit iffy most of the stuff by the dells is class.

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What about the Magnetics that later became the Volumes?? (think I remember reading they were fronted by Billy Kenedy)

"Lady in green"/"Heart you're made of stone" (Magnetics) - one of the best double-siders IMO

"Same old feeling" (Volumes) - fairly new to me but bloody AWESOOOOOOOME

"Ain't gonna give you up" (Volumes) - their last and best

Them uns is my three faves, can't bring any more to mind at the moment (well it is late!)

:shhh:

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Different group Billy. Dennis Coffey played on both the Magnetics and the Volumes sessions and he says they are not the same group.

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Different group Billy.  Dennis Coffey played on both the Magnetics and the Volumes sessions and he says they are not the same group.

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This now seems to be the definite story since we have to trust Dennis on this I think. The previous theory I think was that it was Gerald Mathis (sings lead on their Impact 45 "That Same Old Feeling") that was the lead in the Magnetics, since they are vocally quite similar, at least I think they sound very similar. The lead on Karen is a Jimmy Burger (funny name...) I think, and I also think he is the lead on their Inferno sides, a very distinctive voice he has. On the American Arts sides the lead is sung by yet another guy. They were a bit like the Temptations, changing leads and styles over the years.

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The Masqueraders are definitely one of the best male soul groups but I hesitate to nominate them as the best ever or to nominate Lee Jones as best male soul singer ever and so on, there are just so many good male singers and groups to choose from. I like most of the Masqueraders stuff but I personally tink "How Big Is Big" is some kind of C&W influenced weird stuff that really leaves me cold.

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Don't get me wrong. I love the Masqueraders. Lee Jones had a great voice and they made some exceptional records, some of which turned out to be unique special sounds.

But isn't it true that on virtually every record they are trying to recreate the current in demand sound?

As I say, in practice they surpassed rather than recreated leaving us with superb sounds. But their attempts at trying to match what was currently '"in" means that they never managed to create a uniquely Masquearders sound.

Edit:

Since writing this I have read Christain H's comment on records like "How Big is Big". This is another problem with not being consistent about the sound you want to produce.

Edited by Billy Freemantle
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Guest rachel

Don't get me wrong. I love the Masqueraders. Lee Jones had a great voice and they made some exceptional records, some of which turned out to be unique special sounds.

But isn't it true that on virtually every record they are trying to recreate the current in demand sound?

As I say, in practice they surpassed rather than recreated leaving us with superb sounds. But their attempts at trying to match what was currently '"in" means that they never managed to create a uniquely Masquearders sound.

Edit:

Since writing this I have read Christain H's comment on records like "How Big is Big". This is another problem with not being consistent about the sound you want to produce.

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I quite like that about them, such a variety of 'sounds' but I think there's always something indentifiably 'Masqueraders' about each song.

Astounding harmonies :shhh:

How Big is Big and Ain't Got To Love Nobody Else are beautiful... :excl:

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The Masqueraders have just been confirmed and added to the Northampton weekender later on in the year...wow so thats The Just Brothers, Chuck Jackson, Willie Kendrick and now these guys, this should be a wonderful weekend, more details i'm sure to follow from the promoters......see you at the bar.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

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Guest Richard Bergman

Just listening to them - jesus ... they were good. Best all male outfit of them all ?  :lol:   :lol:   :lol:

Hammy

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"How Big is Big" is special to me and someone dear to my heart wink.gif

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Same frontman though, surely? Listen to "Lady in green" then to "Same old felling" - if they're not the same they're perfect soundalikes ph34r.gif

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Dennis Coffey said totally different and unrelated group, so presume none of the members same. Said the same to me when I was chatting to him at Cleethorpes.

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This now seems to be the definite story since we have to trust Dennis on this I think. The previous theory I think was that it was Gerald Mathis (sings lead on their Impact 45 "That Same Old Feeling") that was the lead in the Magnetics, since they are vocally quite similar, at least I think they sound very similar. The lead on Karen is a Jimmy Burger (funny name...) I think, and I also think he is the lead on their Inferno sides, a very distinctive voice he has. On the American Arts sides the lead is sung by yet another guy. They were a bit like the Temptations, changing leads and styles over the years.

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Eddie Union on the American Arts and Chex releases.

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Just listening to them - jesus ... they were good. Best all male outfit of them all ?  :)   :)   :ohmy:

Hammy

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wot about butch's masqueraders.

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Just what are the different Magnetics releases, have been told before, but can't remember, wasn't Lee McKinney the lead on Lady In Green ? (As in different i mean....differing groups under that name.)Brett

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The Volumes Formed around 1960 made up of five Detroit teenagers which were Eddie Union lead singer on all the Chex, Jubilee, Old Town and American Arts records including 'Gotta Give Her Love' B/W 'I Can't Live Without You, 'I Just Can't Help Myself' B/W 'One Way Lover' Elijah "Teenie" Davis-first tenor, Larry Wright-second tenor (not sure if this is the 'Sweet Sweet Kisses' Larry Wright but it's possible), Joe Truvillion-baritone and Ernest Newson-bass.

Eddie Union left the group in 1965 Larry Wright sang lead on the Twirl record 'Maintain You Cool' B/W ' I Got Love' - Twirl 2016, Some line up changes and shuffling followed and Gerald Mathis sang lead on their 1966 Impact release 'The Trouble I've Seen' B/W 'That Same Old Feeling' and then Jimmy Burger sang lead on the three Inferno releases between 1967 and 68.

Eddie Union returned to the group in 1968 for two years in which time there were no recording sessions until hooking up with legendary producer Ollie McLaughlin where during this time they recorded the superb 'Ain't Gonna Give You Up' again i think 'Union' sang lead on this.

I'm not sure if 'The Magnetics' connection is just rumour or Northern Soul folk-law were there not three Magnetics groups anyway, Sable,Bonnie and Rasel are three different outfits i thought? but the information above is i believe correct and i hope it helps at least from this you now know that there were at least three front men on 'The Volumes' records.

Hope It Helps - Regards - Mark Bicknell.

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Just what are the different Magnetics releases, have been told before, but can't remember, wasn't Lee McKinney the lead on Lady In Green ? (As in different i mean....differing groups under that name.)Brett

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I think Lee McKinney was part of the Chicago lot on Sable, different group to the Detroit one on Bonnie.

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The Volumes Formed around 1960 made up of five Detroit teenagers which were Eddie Union lead singer on all the Chex, Jubilee, Old Town and American Arts records including 'Gotta Give Her Love' B/W 'I Can't Live Without You, 'I Just Can't Help Myself' B/W 'One Way Lover' Elijah "Teenie" Davis-first tenor, Larry Wright-second tenor (not sure if this is the 'Sweet Sweet Kisses' Larry Wright but it's possible), Joe Truvillion-baritone and Ernest Newson-bass.

Eddie Union left the group in 1965 Larry Wright sang lead on the Twirl record 'Maintain You Cool' B/W ' I Got Love' - Twirl 2016, Some line up changes and shuffling followed and Gerald Mathis sang lead on their 1966 Impact release 'The Trouble I've Seen' B/W 'That Same Old Feeling' and then Jimmy Burger sang lead on the three Inferno releases between 1967 and 68.

Eddie Union returned to the group in 1968 for two years in which time there were no recording sessions until hooking up with legendary producer Ollie McLaughlin where during this  time they recorded the superb 'Ain't Gonna Give You Up' again i think 'Union' sang lead on this.

I'm not sure if 'The Magnetics' connection is just rumour or Northern Soul folk-law were there not three Magnetics groups anyway, Sable,Bonnie and Rasel are three different outfits i thought? but the information above is i believe correct and i hope it helps at least from this you now know that there were at least three front men on 'The Volumes' records.

Hope It Helps - Regards - Mark Bicknell.

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Good info, but are you sure it is not Burger on lead on their Karen sides? It sounds very much like him and sounds nothing like the sweeter/smoother/lighter Union IMO.

Listen and compare, it sounds like the same guy to me.

My Kind Of Girl (Inferno) and Ain't Gonna Give You Up (Karen).

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I quite like that about them, such a variety of 'sounds' but I think there's always something indentifiably 'Masqueraders' about each song.

Astounding harmonies  :thumbsup:

Yes, perhaps you are right afterall. And the harmonies are superb as you say!

One of the good things about discussions like this is that it makes us listen more closely.

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Christian, Only going off an interview Eddie Union gave in the mid 80's, i guess it's even hard for the group members to get a little cloudy after so many years, i take your point and on listening to the records i tend to agree with you.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

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If you say so, and if Eddie said so, I guess it is not for me to doubt, but it often seems (not just in this case) that even the artists themself don't really have a clue, leaving us with no absolute truths but rather more or less probable theories. :thumbsup: I see no one has downloaded "My Kind Of Girl" it's a bit string heavy perhaps but a great Detroit sound very worthy of a listen or two! I reckon it's an oldie but where and when was it played, presuming it was played?

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If you say so, and if Eddie said so, I guess it is not for me to doubt, but it often seems (not just in this case) that even the artists themself don't really have a clue, leaving us with no absolute truths but rather more or less probable theories. :D   I see no one has downloaded "My Kind Of Girl" it's a bit string heavy perhaps but a great Detroit sound very worthy of a listen or two! I reckon it's an oldie but where and when was it played, presuming it was played?

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The way I read your response is you doubt what both Mark and Eddie say :D:D

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Some great groups mentioned here. Must say I think The Hesitations are ridiculously overrated: they simply couldn't sing, either as soloists or in harmony.

For me it has to be The Masqueraders. The Temptations were very much a 'styled' entity: pliable but (very) capable voices for the latest projects of their writers and producers. I'm not saying that they were not talented singers: few can actually match Ruffin, Kendricks and sundry other erstwhile Temptations on pure vocal ability.

What makes The Masqueraders very special is that they wrote the vast majority of their recorded output, and those songs are actually spectacularly good. Records like "Please Take Me Back," "I Ain't Gonna Stop," "I Aint Got To Love Nobody Else," "Average Guy," "Let's Face Facts" and, particularly "This Heart Is Haunted" (as Lee Jones & The Sounds of Soul on Amy) are all phenomenal soul songs, some of which have been covered admirably, but never bettered. In Lee Jones and Robert Wrightsill they had two world class tenor leads, and the lighter voice of Sam Hutchins was (to my ears) the equal of, for example, Eddie Kendricks.

I think that the view that has The Masqueraders simply taking on others' styles is woefully simplistic. They were a unit with a complete identity of their own. When I read the interview with them on Greg Tormo's website I am not ashamed to admit that I wept at the thought of them still rehearsing every week despite not having had a record deal since 1980: their unshakeable faith in their own ability is completely admirable. I look forward to seeing them perform over here at some point in my lifetime. I hope Lee Jones can be pressed into service: the thought of them all experiencing the kind of welcome they merit is a fantastic prospect. They are the very essense of Soul.

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Just what are the different Magnetics releases, have been told before, but can't remember, wasn't Lee McKinney the lead on Lady In Green ? (As in different i mean....differing groups under that name.)Brett

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Discographies for the five different Magnetics groups, and the Masqueraders can be found using the links below.

The Magnetics

The Masqueraders

Having said that I've got a load of updates for the Masqueraders that someone has sent me and I need to go through their discog and compare it to mine. If there are any differences I'll post the updated one later tonight.

HTH

Edited by Dave Rimmer
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Try again soucers!,The Masqueraders,I dont want nobody to lead me on;WAND,1168,this was Butch`s Masqueraders,as i bought this of him,fuckin`great too!,luverly!Demo,deffo needs more plays out.

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Some great groups mentioned here. Must say I think The Hesitations are ridiculously overrated: they simply couldn't sing, either as soloists or in harmony.

For me it has to be The Masqueraders. The Temptations were very much a 'styled' entity: pliable but (very) capable voices for the latest projects of their writers and producers. I'm not saying that they were not talented singers: few can actually match Ruffin, Kendricks and sundry other erstwhile Temptations on pure vocal ability.

What makes The Masqueraders very special is that they wrote the vast majority of their recorded output, and those songs are actually spectacularly good. Records like "Please Take Me Back," "I Ain't Gonna Stop," "I Aint Got To Love Nobody Else," "Average Guy," "Let's Face Facts" and, particularly "This Heart Is Haunted" (as Lee Jones & The Sounds of Soul on Amy) are all phenomenal soul songs, some of which have been covered admirably, but never bettered. In Lee Jones and Robert Wrightsill they had two world class tenor leads, and the lighter voice of Sam Hutchins was (to my ears) the equal of, for example, Eddie Kendricks.

I think that the view that has The Masqueraders simply taking on others' styles is woefully simplistic. They were a unit with a complete identity of their own. When I read the interview with them on Greg Tormo's website I am not ashamed to admit that I wept at the thought of them still rehearsing every week despite not having had a record deal since 1980: their unshakeable faith in their own ability is completely admirable. I look forward to seeing them perform over here at some point in my lifetime. I hope Lee Jones can be pressed into service: the thought of them all experiencing the kind of welcome they merit is a fantastic prospect. They are the very essense of Soul.

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Excellent post. Not sure if I agree with you though on the Hesitations. The voices are not brilliant but are really very pleasant and easy on the ear. And the overall sound of their records is speedy and definitely a Northern vibe.

Your are probably right to say that the view that the Masqueraders were 'simply taking on others' styles' is simplistic. But I wouldn't go so far as to qualify this with 'woefully'! Isn't it true that they were trying for a hit (and who can blame them?) by trying to hook into what was hot?

Nobody can dispute that they were - and perhaps still are - massively talented and one of those acts to whom we can attach the term 'neglected'without sounding over the top.

Edited by Billy Freemantle
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The way I read your response is you doubt what both Mark and Eddie say  :D   :D

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Hmm, you're right I guess. :D When listening and comparing it is very hard to think it is NOT Jimmy Burger on lead on Karen though, unless the other guy started sounding completely like him and stopped sounding like himself. And as far as I can gather from the posts Eddie does not claim to sing lead, only to have rejoined the group in 1968.

P.S. Something for the discographers, please, there is NO Karen 101 release for the Volumes, it is a mistake due to someone not being able to tell or understand the difference between the release # and the master # (which is 101 on "Ain't Gonna Give You Up" and 100 on the official topside "Am I Losing You" on Karen 1551). All evidence suggests this is the case and so far no 101 has been reported or identified, and the reason is that it does most likely not exist other than as a mistake that has been perpetuated over the years.

Edited by Guest
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