Frank Wilson

[Pk 22dj]

Frank Wilson

10'' Studio library Acetate

Yes this has been in the UK for many years, a photo of this can be sent to you should you wish.Just contact me and I will send it to you, and the story is on the Web site www.casinoallstars.co.uk if your care to take a look and comment.

Thank you Paul Kidd

Edited October 21, 2008 by pk 22dj

[Eddie Hubbard]

Frank Wilson

10'' Studio library Acetate

Yes this has been in the UK for many years, a photo of this has now been posted on the

Web site www.casinoallstars.co.uk if your care to take a look and comment.

Thank you Paul Kidd

Looks great , rarer than the original ' 45 eh ? Best,Eddie

[Guest bazabod_downunder]

So what do reckon it's worth?

KTF

Baz

Looks great , rarer than the original ' 45 eh ? Best,Eddie

[Paul R]

I'm suprised that this has not started a flurry of post claiming, "It's a shit record", "Not as good as Dean Barlow", etc

Paul

[Pk 22dj]

I'm suprised that this has not started a flurry of post claiming, "It's a shit record", "Not as good as Dean Barlow", etc

Paul

Frank Wilson - Do I Love You

Studio Library copy.

Let's get things straight, this record is history and has been talked about far more than any other record on the northern scene. I bought it not - because I wanted to play it every time I went out to DJ, but because of the memories it brought back. At the time nothing compared with the upbeat uplifting sound it gave to us, so please let's not forget that.

There are many records im sure, that we may be perhaps a bit ashamed that we ever jumped out of our seats, and darted out on to a full dance floor to give our all, but this is definitely not one.

It is a true Northern Soul Record and always will be. Our music has moved on and there are many other types of Northern being played which is a good thing. Now and then it's great to hear something that you have not listened to for years.

Last but not least, this record has appealed to so many that im sure that some have gone on to become today's crowd. I'm 46 now but my memories are like it was yesterday.

Wigan Casino - The Ritz - Blackpool Mecca - Carousel and many more all fantastic venues packed most nights and always played Frank Wilson.

Thank you Paul Kidd

Edited October 7, 2008 by pk 22dj

[Paul R]

Frank Wilson - Do I Love You

Studio Library copy.

Let's get things straight, this record is history and has been talked about far more than any other record on the northern scene. I bought it not because I wanted to play it every time I went out to DJ, but because of the memories it brought back. At the time nothing compared with the upbeat uplifting sound it gave to us, so please let's not forget that.

There are many records im sure we may now be perhaps a bit ashamed that we ever jumped out of our seats and darted out on to a full dance floor to give our all, but this is definitely not one.

It is a true Northern Soul Record and always will be. Our music has moved on and there are many other types of Northern being played which is a good thing. Now and then it's great to hear something that you have not listened to for years.

Last but not least this record has appealed to so many that im sure that some have gone on to become today's crowd. I'm 46 now but my memories are like it was yesterday.

Wigan Casino - The Ritz - Blackpool Mecca - Carousel and many more all fantastic venues packed most nights and always played Frank Wilson.

Thank you Paul Kidd

I totally agree with everything you say. Frank Wilson "Do I Love You" is in my humble opinion, one of the best records ever played on the scene. I was actually taking the piss out of the criticise FW for the sake of it brigade. Unfortunately, the track has, like many others, been over played over the 30 years it has been in the public domain. It is also open to stick because Kev Roberts dared to write a book about what constituted in his opinion the top 500 northern tracks, and put it at No. 1.

In the example I used I just want to say Frank Wilson is, and Dean Barlow isn't Northern soul. IMHO.

What I actually meant in my first post is that I was suprised that your original post had not started a huge argument about FW.

Paul

[Soul-slider]

Frank Wilson - Do I Love You

Studio Library copy.

Let's get things straight, this record is history and has been talked about far more than any other record on the northern scene. I bought it not because I wanted to play it every time I went out to DJ, but because of the memories it brought back. At the time nothing compared with the upbeat uplifting sound it gave to us, so please let's not forget that.

There are many records im sure we may now be perhaps a bit ashamed that we ever jumped out of our seats and darted out on to a full dance floor to give our all, but this is definitely not one.

It is a true Northern Soul Record and always will be. Our music has moved on and there are many other types of Northern being played which is a good thing. Now and then it's great to hear something that you have not listened to for years.

Last but not least this record has appealed to so many that im sure that some have gone on to become today's crowd. I'm 46 now but my memories are like it was yesterday.

Wigan Casino - The Ritz - Blackpool Mecca - Carousel and many more all fantastic venues packed most nights and always played Frank Wilson.

Thank you Paul Kidd

Same age as me my friend.

I agree 100% with your statement!

[Our Kid]

Kidder you cheeky little devil ya!! Fancy havin' that up yer sleeve well done lad.Make sure your bro don't get hold of it!!!

Just when I thought you were doin' karaoke downstairs at the Sportsman you were sortin' out the deal - hats off t ya.

Good slab of history there.Paul Boshir will be spinnin' n proud.

Paul

[Guest]

Frank Wilson

10'' Studio library Acetate

Yes this has been in the UK for many years, a photo of this has now been posted on the

Web site www.casinoallstars.co.uk if your care to take a look and comment.

Thank you Paul Kidd

.. very interesting.

Jayne.x

[Rob Wigley]

Paul

just read your blurb on the site link-

how do the 2 versions of DILY differ from each other ?

and

"the unknown song" is this another dancer or a ballard etc

Nice piece of N Soul / Motown History and something you should treasure !

Rob

[Our Kid]

It all fits into place now.That's what Bush needs 700billion for!!!

Hey the act runs to 451 pages.Has anyone checked the smallprint where it says F**k Wall St someone's got a studio acetate of Frank Wilson!

[Chris L]

Frank Wilson

10'' Studio library Acetate

Yes this has been in the UK for many years, a photo of this has now been posted on the

Web site www.casinoallstars.co.uk if your care to take a look and comment.

Thank you Paul Kidd

Well yes you're pretty lucky to own it, care to say what it cost you ?

I understood on 2 copies on Soul not 3 - can anyone name the owners ??

Chris L

[Simsy]

post removed

Edited October 7, 2008 by Simsy

[Ezzie Brown]

very nice thing to own, like the record or not..........how many of these acetates would have been made for each song/session ? did it vary, were they kept for any time,or reason , how many copies would go into the library > how many may have been given to or stolen by artists ,employees etc? how much do values vary? curious , any help ? thanks, ezzie

[Pk 22dj]

I totally agree with everything you say. Frank Wilson "Do I Love You" is in my humble opinion, one of the best records ever played on the scene. I was actually taking the piss out of the criticise FW for the sake of it brigade. Unfortunately, the track has, like many others, been over played over the 30 years it has been in the public domain. It is also open to stick because Kev Roberts dared to write a book about what constituted in his opinion the top 500 northern tracks, and put it at No. 1.

In the example I used I just want to say Frank Wilson is, and Dean Barlow isn't Northern soul. IMHO.

What I actually meant in my first post is that I was suprised that your original post had not started a huge argument about FW.

Paul

No prob's my fault read your statement the wrong way. Sorry!1

I also have Dean Balow and hundreds of mid tempo ballads etc. People who know me will say

this type of record was pushed by me on the decks for many years .

I'm talking about Dean Barlow not Frank Wilson.

Thanks Kidda

Edited October 7, 2008 by pk 22dj

[Benji]

Well yes you're pretty lucky to own it, care to say what it cost you ?

I understood on 2 copies on Soul not 3 - can anyone name the owners ??

Chris L

still only 2 KNOWN copies. the story about these students finding a third copy was just a hoax, rumour, whatever you call it. i think it started when a record shop owner in the States glued a FW label on another record and stuck it on the wall to see the reaction of any UK customer checking out his stock

[Dave Moore]

still only 2 KNOWN copies. the story about these students finding a third copy was just a hoax, rumour, whatever you call it. i think it started when a record shop owner in the States glued a FW label on another record and stuck it on the wall to see the reaction of any UK customer checking out his stock

And at least two returned to UK and were adamant that it was real one! I'm not even sure if they'd been to the shop it was at.

[Simsy]

post removed

Edited October 7, 2008 by Simsy

[Pk 22dj]

still only 2 KNOWN copies. the story about these students finding a third copy was just a hoax, rumour, whatever you call it. i think it started when a record shop owner in the States glued a FW label on another record and stuck it on the wall to see the reaction of any UK customer checking out his stock

The 3rd copy I refer to was mentioned to me some 18 years ago by a American record dealer, It was not him who bought it, so I can't give you his name, but he did say $30,000 changed hands. The record was never seen by him either, but I had no reason to believe or disbelieve him. I'm sure though but not certain that I also read something to that effect in an American Discovery record magazine around the same time.

Im sure it will feature in a Harrison Ford film one day ha.

[Pk 22dj]

Kidder you cheeky little devil ya!! Fancy havin' that up yer sleeve well done lad.Make sure your bro don't get hold of it!!!

Just when I thought you were doin' karaoke downstairs at the Sportsman you were sortin' out the deal - hats off t ya.

Good slab of history there.Paul Boshir will be spinnin' n proud.

Paul

Thanks and yes, you may have thought it was me, and not the real Tony Christie performing down stairs ha.

Ps are you ever gonna get down to the Blue Cat H moor. 1st Thursday of the month to see the band.

kidda

[Pk 22dj]

So what do reckon it's worth?

KTF

Baz

What is any record worth these days, If I had this 30 years ago I might be living in Spain full and not part time now.

Villas were a lot cheaper in those days. Maybe someone has a better idea of its value than me.

Keeping Stum

[Simsy]

post removed

Edited October 7, 2008 by Simsy

[Pk 22dj]

very nice thing to own, like the record or not..........how many of these acetates would have been made for each song/session ? did it vary, were they kept for any time,or reason , how many copies would go into the library > how many may have been given to or stolen by artists ,employees etc? how much do values vary? curious , any help ? thanks, ezzie

From what i've been told, there was the 10" and a 7" cut of each record. The 10" had the notes of players / performance scores.

The 7" which was cut from the 10" has all the others cut from it. Then both are put away for records etc.

Values do vary, I listed not long ago on this site, a Tommy Good acetate " I've got to get away" pure brilliance on 7". Gingers got the other 10"

there is not any other copy as it never got issued. I had it up for £2500 I think ?. will have to check myself.

[Pk 22dj]

Or perhaps just ignore me?

Very sorry.

I would rather not say. I can't afford any more weddings or give any more property away.

my missus would kill me for saying that.

Cheers Kidda

[Simsy]

[Dave Rimmer]

The difference it one has strings etc, the one we all know and the other has none but still sounds great. As for the other track

its ok but nothing to write home about if you get my drift.

I'm sure my mate who sold it to me made tape of some sort, can't blame him.

Thanks Paul

That'll be the alternate take that's on the 'Motown Year By Year' CD then.

[Pk 22dj]

That'll be the alternate take that's on the 'Motown Year By Year' CD then.

Thanks Dave will check the Cd out.

[Guest nffc]

Frank Wilson "Do I Love You" is in my humble opinion, one of the best records ever played on the scene.

Amen brother!

An almost perfect record and one of very few that I never tire of hearing. Dean Barlow on the other hand stumps me, it seems to encapsulate everything that is wrong in NS, like a little slab of evil corrupting all in its path.

[Rob Wigley]

That'll be the alternate take that's on the 'Motown Year By Year' CD then.

Dave, is the CD that Marks& Spencers were selling as a Christmas CD a couple of years back ?#

as a dads stocking filler type thing ?

Full of" Baby Love" , Dancing in the Street", "I heard it through the grapevine" then up pops

frankie Boy with DILY(IID)--so these lot will be driving road listening to what their kids bought 'em and probably think its just another Motown "Hit" !

But good enought commercially to cut the mustard !

Rob

[Dave Rimmer]

Dave, is the CD that Marks& Spencers were selling as a Christmas CD a couple of years back ?#

as a dads stocking filler type thing ?

Full of" Baby Love" , Dancing in the Street", "I heard it through the grapevine" then up pops

frankie Boy with DILY(IID)--so these lot will be driving road listening to what their kids bought 'em and probably think its just another Motown "Hit" !

But good enought commercially to cut the mustard !

Rob

It might be, but I doubt it. There was a series of these US Release CDs, and they covered, fairly obviously, one year on each CD. I don't think Motown even realised that it was a different take to the Frank Wilson when they released it. I'll dig my copy of the CD out tonight and post the version of FW so that you can compare it.

[Pk 22dj]

What is any record worth these days, If I had this 30 years ago I might be living in Spain full and not part time now.

Villas were a lot cheaper in those days. Maybe someone has a better idea of its value than me.

Keeping Stum

Hi Baz

Just thought I would let you know, some guy offerd me 9000 Euro's. for it through the web site.

Turned it down, he was not from the Uk either.

[Mick Holdsworth]

That'll be the alternate take that's on the 'Motown Year By Year' CD then.

The Year by Year Cd was the first time the ALT version appeared, about 1995/96 or so - Chris King used to hammer it in that period. I got myself an acetate cut and also "hammered it".

However, the UK Tamla Motown Issue in the 45th Anniversary Box Set from about 5 years ago used this Alternate version aswell (It is the same as Chalkys Clip) - It's the one with Chris clark on the flip, list number 9821530 - One of these singles should cost you no more than a fiver - still plenty about on eBay etc.

Just to throw a spanner in the works, there is a third version of it, which appeared on a compilation CD about 6 years ago - Don't know the details, I was in my friends car and out came a CDR of "Classic Northern", and at some point along came Frank, completely different to the Standard 35019 /TMG 1170 , and the aformentioned "Alt" on UK Tamla 9821530.

Just a thought , has anyone heard the "Soul" boots that appeared with the Originals / Suspicion Vocal/ Inst ? - I know Suspicion was a completely different version to the 3 others, and the instrumental was a re-recording, in the "Don't Pretend" sense of the word. I wonder if this press of Frank Wilson is the third version - Never had a copy so don't know.

Cheers

Mick Holdsworth

https://northern-soul-records.com

https://motownsound.co.uk

[Rob Wigley]

Just had another listen to it and turned it up quite a bit,

now i am probably one of those people who has never really "listened" to this when its played out(frequently)

If i get asked for it (frequently) when Djing I usually play the Chris Clark version in an attempt to be slightly different and don't listen to that either !

But on closer inspection, its way different and i really like the oddities in the recording, slightly more instrumentation and not as polished production.

We all know this Motown thing is a mine field, like The Velvelettes "These things" and the totally different version on the Motown chartbusters Uk Album. you can go on forever, but Motown were searching for chartopping hits, hence the various productions to try and catch the feel of the day.

i think they are outstanding records, although played to death, but I suspect if you were allowed to take a 50 box to a desert island DILY would be in that box in one form or another.

Rob

[Ian Seaman]

FW was played as 1st record on radcliffe & Maconie on R2 monday night, was a totally different version to any i have heard before

Ian.

[Mick Holdsworth]

Just to throw a spanner in the works, there is a third version of it, which appeared on a compilation CD about 6 years ago - Don't know the details, I was in my friends car and out came a CDR of "Classic Northern", and at some point along came Frank, completely different to the Standard 35019 /TMG 1170 , and the aformentioned "Alt" on UK Tamla 9821530.

FW was played as 1st record on radcliffe & Maconie on R2 monday night, was a totally different version to any i have heard before

Ian.

Thats probably the version I was on about earlier - Seem to remember quite a few "different" takes of classics on this CD - Chuck Jackson / Got the Need, and a version of "You Didn't Say A Word" which was completely different to the 3 known versions - could even have been a modern day re-recordings.

Cheers

Mick Holdsworth

https://northern-soul-records.com

https://motownsound.co.uk

[Chalky]

thanks chalky, hope you are well mate, does sound different but in a funny sort of way !

Hi Rob, I'm good thanks, hope your all the same. Does sound different i agree but as good as it is it still wouldn't bother me if I never heard it again, just soooo over played, whichever take

[Our Kid]

Been thinking about this acetate and it has raised a question for me - perhaps somebody can assist.

Do people have other Motown acetates to compare the general style/layout as I am intrigued by this Att B G Jnr.

Does this stand for:

Attendance/Attention?

The reason I ask this is because B G Jnr was apparently responsible for scrapping the orig press and i don't understand if a) he was in attendance how it got to a press before he scrapped it

b)if it was attention BG Jr did it get delayed getting to him(allowing the press to continue) on purpose to strenghten Frank Wilsons' hand in some sort of negotiating tactic.

Anyone with any info appreciated.

Thanks

Paul

[Rob Wigley]

Hi Rob, I'm good thanks, hope your all the same. Does sound different i agree but as good as it is it still wouldn't bother me if I never heard it again, just soooo over played, whichever take

[Pk 22dj]

Been thinking about this acetate and it has raised a question for me - perhaps somebody can assist.

Do people have other Motown acetates to compare the general style/layout as I am intrigued by this Att B G Jnr.

Does this stand for:

Attendance/Attention?

The reason I ask this is because B G Jnr was apparently responsible for scrapping the orig press and i don't understand if a) he was in attendance how it got to a press before he scrapped it

b)if it was attention BG Jr did it get delayed getting to him(allowing the press to continue) on purpose to strenghten Frank Wilsons' hand in some sort of negotiating tactic.

Anyone with any info appreciated.

Thanks

Paul

Hi Paul

Look carefully at the photo !!

It also says reject as well as recoat (in larger marking).

I too have never been able to work this out.ie. Did they reject the record for what ever reason. Then were these records recoated and used again ???

no one has been able to say up to now.

Thanks Paul Kidd

Edited October 9, 2008 by pk 22dj

[grant]

Hi Paul

Look carefully at the photo !!

It also says reject as well as recoat (in larger marking).

I too have never been able to work this out.ie. Did they reject the record fore what ever reason. Then were these records recoated and used again ???

no one has been able to say up to now.

Thanks Paul Kidd

had a great chat with Paul last night about the FW and you can listen to him (and his tunes) on sat 25 Oct on Pure 107.8fm in stockport area, or on line www.pureradio.org.uk 6pm sats/repeated 10pm weds

Intriguing story!!

Grant

[Guest carl_p]

Hi Paul

Look carefully at the photo !!

It also says reject as well as recoat (in larger marking).

I too have never been able to work this out.ie. Did they reject the record fore what ever reason. Then were these records recoated and used again ???

no one has been able to say up to now.

Thanks Paul Kidd

I'm not sure motown would have bothered to recoat them. At the time acetate blanks were relatively cheap. they probably purchased blanks from transco and maybe transco would have been able to re-coat them. i've heard of it being done but it doesn't seem very cost effective. it might have been a more common practice during war time when materials were harder to come by. I do think the label looks typical motown. i sure this copy would fill a void in many motown/northern collections until a vinyl copy came along.

[Simon T]

Question:

I have a disc which is a 10" Hitsville Sound Studio lacquer , this has REJECT and RECOAT daubed all over it, is this because they would have decided not to release it and thus losing the recording forever or would they still have it on master tape?

Answer:

Rundown acetates were a quick and dirty flat transfer of each reel of mixes turned in by an engineer. They were used by the quality control department to make preliminary decisions about whether or not to keep mixes.

"Recoat" meant that the disk was to be "recoated" or in other words, recycled back to the manufacturer. We used so many acetates that it was worthwhile to send what we didn't want back. I think they cost 20 or 30 dollars each back in 1965.

This could be because the mix was to be scrapped or just that the disk had been damaged. Somebody must have walked off with that one because they were much too expensive to just throw away

Bob Olhsson, mastering intern Motown

[Guest carl_p]

Question:

I have a disc which is a 10" Hitsville Sound Studio lacquer , this has REJECT and RECOAT daubed all over it, is this because they would have decided not to release it and thus losing the recording forever or would they still have it on master tape?

Answer:

Rundown acetates were a quick and dirty flat transfer of each reel of mixes turned in by an engineer. They were used by the quality control department to make preliminary decisions about whether or not to keep mixes.

"Recoat" meant that the disk was to be "recoated" or in other words, recycled back to the manufacturer. We used so many acetates that it was worthwhile to send what we didn't want back. I think they cost 20 or 30 dollars each back in 1965.

This could be because the mix was to be scrapped or just that the disk had been damaged. Somebody must have walked off with that one because they were much too expensive to just throw away

Bob Olhsson, mastering intern Motown

I stand corrected Bob. I heard acetates today are only in the $10-20 range from transco and that's because they have little demand and need to justify their short runs.

[Pk 22dj]

Question:

I have a disc which is a 10" Hitsville Sound Studio lacquer , this has REJECT and RECOAT daubed all over it, is this because they would have decided not to release it and thus losing the recording forever or would they still have it on master tape?

Answer:

Rundown acetates were a quick and dirty flat transfer of each reel of mixes turned in by an engineer. They were used by the quality control department to make preliminary decisions about whether or not to keep mixes.

"Recoat" meant that the disk was to be "recoated" or in other words, recycled back to the manufacturer. We used so many acetates that it was worthwhile to send what we didn't want back. I think they cost 20 or 30 dollars each back in 1965.

This could be because the mix was to be scrapped or just that the disk had been damaged. Somebody must have walked off with that one because they were much too expensive to just throw away

Bob Olhsson, mastering intern Motown

Thank you Bob, that kind of clears thing's up.

What kind of price could you place on such a piece of Motown and Northern Soul History.

any suggestions.

thanks Paul Kidd

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

Well i only know 2 versions of Frank Wilson - Do I Love You as himself with vocal which is alternative and a normal version

There is an instrumental cause Andy "Smudge" Smith played it when i went out tonight

plus i also have a version of it done by Frank Wilson and Chris Clarke as a duet but that was likely someone trying to mix it together as with technology these days that is not so hard

but aside from this how many more Frank Wilson tracks is there or alt takes etc enough for a cd

i also believe and read there is a Patrice Holloway version in the archives who knows

Edited October 11, 2008 by WPaulVanDyk

[Pk 22dj]

And at least two returned to UK and were adamant that it was real one! I'm not even sure if they'd been to the shop it was at.

Hi Dave

Great to meet you in Valencia at the Expo Hotel.

I never got chance to get your email, mine is kidd22@live.co.uk. Get in touch.

I have had a couple of emails from the states confirming that it is the real deal, also the suggestion that Frank himself wanted the record. What do you think to that?

With regards to ever selling this item, I think as you say you would have to hold it in your hands to get the real buzz. It's an honor to own it and to think who's hands have held it also sends the mind spinning.

Have you still got the Agents? (The wife's not around). Ha

Thanks Paul Kidd

Stockport Soul Man

Edited October 14, 2008 by pk 22dj

[Our Kid]

Mickey Valvano was involved in producing Motown acetates so ya never know who's had their mitts on it!!

Paul

[Dave Moore]

Hi Dave

Great to meet you in Valencia at the Expo Hotel.

I never got chance to get your email, mine is kidd22@live.co.uk. Get in touch.

I have had a couple of emails from the states confirming that it is the real deal, also the suggestion that Frank himself wanted the record. What do you think to that?

With regards to ever selling this item, I think as you say you would have to hold it in your hands to get the real buzz. It's an honor to own it and to think who's hands have held it also sends the mind spinning.

Have you still got the Agents? (The wife's not around). Ha

Thanks Paul Kidd

Stockport Soul Man

Yep,

Good to put faces to names eh? Rekkid chat is always high up on our agenda and it was a good session on Friday afternoon in the bar. Hope your Mrs was happy with your attentiveness over the weekend and your back in the good books!

Agents is still in sales box if you're interested.

[Pk 22dj]

Yep,

Good to put faces to names eh? Rekkid chat is always high up on our agenda and it was a good session on Friday afternoon in the bar. Hope your Mrs was happy with your attentiveness over the weekend and your back in the good books!

Agents is still in sales box if you're interested.

Forgot what price it was.

Thanks Paul

[Pk 22dj]

So what do reckon it's worth?

KTF

Baz

Hi Baz had a few quotes rising from $15,000 to $35,000 us.

Always said I wouldnt let this item go, but it may end up in Franks hands himself.

which to be honest would not be a bad thing.

thanks Paul Kidd