Record Labels Churning Out Northern Soul

[Tomangoes]

There could be a few contenders but this must be close to the top:

https://www.globaldogproductions.info/w/wand.html

One of my favourites from this:

https://www.curtisblandon.com/photos.html

Ed

[soulsalmon]

There could be a few contenders but this must be close to the top:

https://www.globaldogproductions.info/w/wand.html

One of my favourites from this:

https://www.curtisblandon.com/photos.html

Ed

Loma's got to be upthere

[Epic]

Mirwood - so much good stuff on that label.

& 2 majors - Capitol & RCA

[Guest Brett F]

What about Stax, Atlantic, Chess plus all their subsidiaries.

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Mirwood - so much good stuff on that label.

Agreed - on a record-for-record basis, it's hard to think of a more Northern label that Mirwood, especially when you factor its successor Keymen into the equation...

...except perhaps Shrine. It's just a pity that so many of their releases are complete shi*e...

[Guest Paul]

In the same way that you judge a successful label on their hit-to-release ratio, I reckon you should consider the total output of a label before you rate them as being 'northern soul' significant.

Ric-Tic and Mirwood / Keymen are classic examples of labels with very high proportions of 'northern soul' in their catalogues. And I'd say Dakar, Loma and Arctic should also be on the list.

But major labels such as RCA and Capitol, for example, just don't qualify. 'Northern soul' represented just a tiny portion of their total output.

Paul

[Little-stevie]

There could be a few contenders but this must be close to the top:

https://www.globaldogproductions.info/w/wand.html

One of my favourites from this:

https://www.curtisblandon.com/photos.html

Ed

Stardust maybe

[Guest Paul]

Stardust maybe

If you're adding Stardust to the list, I'm adding Soul Town and Canterbury.

[Guest Paul]

Hot Wax / Invictus / Music Merchant

Karen / Carla / Moira

Mar-V-Lus / One-derful! / M-Pac

Renfro

La Beat

GWP

Venture

Sound Stage 7

[Guest john s]

Okeh?

[Guest Netspeaky]

Okeh?

Okeh is like the Majors, a small % of output is northern, it's one of the oldest record labels going.

[Baz Atkinson]

NUMEROUS STUFF ON BACKBEAT IF YOU DIG,DUKE,PEACOCK,EVEN DE LUX WHICH IS VASTLY UNDERRATED IMHO,SOME OF THE BIGGER DETROIT LOGOS HAVE STUFF BUT YOU AGAIN HAVE TO DIG LU PINE IS A GOOD EXAMPLE AND ALL THE OHTER OBVIOUS ONES OFCOURSE.BRUNSWICK COMES TO MIND IN A WAY IT KEPT THE CHICAGO SOUL SCENE AFLOAT WHEN MANY HAD MOVED ON OR WRITTEN IT OFF AND WAHT ABOUT ALL THE HARD SOUL LOGOS FROM CHICAGO MPAC/ETC ALL CRACKING LOGOS NOT MASSIVE BUT BETTER OUTPUT THAN MANY ENVISAGED.

BAZ A

[Guest john s]

Okeh is like the Majors, a small % of output is northern, it's one of the oldest record labels going.

Yes, I know, but I meant the relaunched Okeh from the 50s and 60s, not the earlier incarnations of it.

I'd imagine that there are still a lot more northern 45s on Okeh than there are on Shrine, aren't there?

[Davetay]

Yes, I know, but I meant the relaunched Okeh from the 50s and 60s, not the earlier incarnations of it.

I'd imagine that there are still a lot more northern 45s on Okeh than there are on Shrine, aren't there?

Alot better northern on Okeh than Shrine, apart from the old 1 or 2.

[Spacehopper]

In the same way that you judge a successful label on their hit-to-release ratio, I reckon you should consider the total output of a label before you rate them as being 'northern soul' significant.

Ric-Tic and Mirwood / Keymen are classic examples of labels with very high proportions of 'northern soul' in their catalogues. And I'd say Dakar, Loma and Arctic should also be on the list.

But major labels such as RCA and Capitol, for example, just don't qualify. 'Northern soul' represented just a tiny portion of their total output.

Paul

but the starter of this thread was talkin about the motown label which also didnt just release northern and after the 60s also released a massive ammount of shit...IMHO

so i would include majors...abc...mgm

also cameo parkway,verve

but this thread is tjust urnin into a list of labels....the label with the most after motown had to be atlantic

[Guest in town Mikey]

In the same way that you judge a successful label on their hit-to-release ratio, I reckon you should consider the total output of a label before you rate them as being 'northern soul' significant.

Ric-Tic and Mirwood / Keymen are classic examples of labels with very high proportions of 'northern soul' in their catalogues. And I'd say Dakar, Loma and Arctic should also be on the list.

But major labels such as RCA and Capitol, for example, just don't qualify. 'Northern soul' represented just a tiny portion of their total output.

Paul

I have to disagree with that last bit Paul.

RCA and Capitol are IMO good examples of where northern Soul comes into its own.

While they arent 'Northern Soul' lables like your Mirwoods or Okeh, they have just as big an importance in the heritage of the scene, and under further examination eximplify what makes this scene so special.

Just because Change You Ways, or this Is The End didnt become hits, the demand to press up copious copies wasnt there. I imagine in the hallowed halls of the companies head offices the tunes were forgotten about within weeeks, and with no oxygen of local radio airplay, drifted into bargain bins, and ship ballast within months.

So soul fans with a certain ear stumble across these tunes that few people have ever heard, and give them the lease of life they deserve. Isnt this what separates the Northern Soul scene from the soul world? Finding gems that were there all along.

Nobody can tell me, or possibly 99% of people on here, that just because few people know Serving a Sentence Of Life, compared to Kung Fu Fighting, that Sentence isnt the better tune. But outside of the northern Soul scene, you'd get more puzzled looks from people when asked to choose betwee the two, than definitive Kung Fu replies.

None of the labels we love, tiny, miniscule or major, set out to corner a niche market of working class white kids in the UK who didnt get funk. They all of course wanted to be the next big thing. Major lables like RCA and Capitol obviously wanted to tap into any music market they could make a profit on. It was no different for the guys at Golden Triangle say. They wanted 'their' music to be as worldwidely known as Marvin Gaye tunes were.

The only difference is RCA had the financial backup to survive a populass not getting this type of record.

For me the RCA catalogue of tunes 'we' have commandeered stands up to just as much scrutiny as Mirwood, Loma or any other lable few people outside of our world know about.

RCA etc also have an advantage on smaller lables in getting money to the right people. As much as it irks hearing 'Moonlight, Music And You' advertising dead animals in breadcrumbs, at least there is a better chance that the writers etc getting the royalties, than if they'd used The Salvadores - Stick by Me Baby for example. The RCA collections department would be grabbing the money from KFC at every opportunity.

Mike

[Guest Paul]

but the starter of this thread was talkin about the motown label which also didnt just release northern and after the 60s also released a massive ammount of shit...IMHO

so i would include majors...abc...mgm

also cameo parkway,verve

but this thread is tjust urnin into a list of labels....the label with the most after motown had to be atlantic

Hello Spacehopper,

In that case I think the thread is pointless because you can include almost any label which issued a few 45s which just happened to be uptempo pop-soul, even it was by accident ...from United Artists to Polydor or whatever. I just don't see the point.

Motown is significant because the vast majority of their records were soul and an awful lot of them, especially during the 1960s, were in the style (and tempo) which later became tagged 'northern soul' over here. Motown popularised the very style and heavily influenced Mirwood and Ric-Tic and many others.

How can you question Motown and then add Cameo / Parkway to the list???

Paul

[Supercorsa]

What about Drew?

[Guest Paul]

Hello

I understand your point, Mike, and I agree with you but I assumed the thread was about labels which, next to Motown, had "churned out" a lot of 'northern soul' records as opposed to other records.

I immediately focused on the ratio, that's why I suggested a bunch of soul labels which had a high proportion of 'northern soul' in their catalogues.

If the thread is about any labels which issued a bunch of 'northern soul' 45s, irrespective of how many thousands of other 45s they issued, then I reckon we can add almost any label to the list - including all of the majors. The list would be endless.

As for the last point, it's interesting to note that RCA (Sony BMG) don't own 'Moonlight Music And You', they had only leased it and therefore couldn't claim the master-use fee from the TV ad campaign. Teddy Vann eventually got paid. The song itself is controlled by Teddy's publishing company but they hadn't appointed a sub-publisher in the UK and they missed out on the sync license fee. I helped him try to recover some of the income.

"Stick By Me Baby", on the other hand, is represented by a UK publisher (Millbrand Music) and the writer gets paid every time the song is issued or broadcast.

It may seem ironic but the long-term trend has been for major companies (labels and publishers) to neglect their catalogues, especially the lesser-known things, because they are so focused on the million sellers. I find it's the smaller companies who know their catalogues and are prepared to work them. Most major companies can't be bothered with what they consider to be small deals so many artists and writers would be better off if their work was in the hands of clued-up and active independants.

Sorry for taking things even further off topic.

Best regards,

Paul

[Guest Paul]

What about Drew?

Great example.

[Guest moggy]

What about Brunswick

would that be in with a shout or Constellation

[pikeys dog]

Percentage wise gotta be Bunny/Big Bunny?

[Guest in town Mikey]

Cheers Paul. I missed that point.

Back to the point.

How about Romark?

[Steve Edgar]

Dunno if it been mentioned but I'd throw in Big Wheel, 7 releases....all class! imho

steve

[Spacehopper]

Hello Spacehopper,

In that case I think the thread is pointless because you can include almost any label which issued a few 45s which just happened to be uptempo pop-soul, even it was by accident ...from United Artists to Polydor or whatever. I just don't see the point.

Motown is significant because the vast majority of their records were soul and an awful lot of them, especially during the 1960s, were in the style (and tempo) which later became tagged 'northern soul' over here. Motown popularised the very style and heavily influenced Mirwood and Ric-Tic and many others.

How can you question Motown and then add Cameo / Parkway to the list???

Paul

i agree the thread is a bit pointless to be honest and as i said just turning into a list of labels which i why i added cameo...yes motown released a lot of 'soul' but out of their TOTAL OUTPUT what i would call good northern soul ,especially outside of the 60s ,would be very small....dont get me wrong i know their importance and love a lot of it (pre 71)...but the answer to the first post has got to be atlantic,hasnt it ?.....although they also released other genres ofcourse so maybe they are not allowed either ?.....

[Tomangoes]

The point breaks into 2 main criteria.

Other than motown, which label has produced the most recognised northern soul records, and then which label has produced the most northern soul records in ratio to total records produced lets say between 1964 and 1974. Of course its not likely to be the same label.

The idea of listing Wand (Maybe I should have added Scepter) was to illustrate a good contender for the second category.

I suppose Atlantic or Stax would win the first category.

Its just a debate to fill the day like most of the threads on this site. Chill out more.

Ed

[Spacehopper]

dont worry very chilled here as im sure paul is...(unlike some threads!)....hard to get point across sometimes though on line

[BrianB]

Big Top?

[Guest Trevski]

Hello Spacehopper,

In that case I think the thread is pointless because you can include almost any label which issued a few 45s which just happened to be uptempo pop-soul, even it was by accident ...from United Artists to Polydor or whatever. I just don't see the point.

Motown is significant because the vast majority of their records were soul and an awful lot of them, especially during the 1960s, were in the style (and tempo) which later became tagged 'northern soul' over here. Motown popularised the very style and heavily influenced Mirwood and Ric-Tic and many others.

How can you question Motown and then add Cameo / Parkway to the list???

Paul

Have to disagree with the Motown- Northern Soul-bit. Motown, and the motown sound, doesn't atomaticaly equate to northern soul. IMHO very few of Motown's output can be called Northern. In fact, it is almost always the case that the least successful (commercialy) Motown tunes are the most Northern.

When you actually tot up the 'proper' northern output of Motown ie the Linda Griner, Carolyn Crawford, Babara McNeir etc it isn't any greater in number than RCA or MGM or Capitol. There are, or were, a lot of Motown stuff played on the northern scene that isn't strictly northern in my book. It's hard to explain, but to me Linda Griner is northern because it doesn't automaticaly sound like Motown. The obvious 'Motown' sounding tunes are just 'Motown' if you get my drift. That's why you can have a 'Motown' night rather than a 'Northern' night. They are two separate entities that just happen to overlap as some point.

Again, Stax has been mentioned, but although putting out large amounts of soul music, how many Stax label products are actualy Northern? In fact Stax must win the Soul orientated label that released the least Northern! Award. Off the top of me head, I can't think of any apart from perhaps Linda Lyndell. That's the only Stax record I've owned that has gone in my Northern box.

Edited October 3, 2008 by Trevski

[Guest john s]

Again, Stax has been mentioned, but although putting out large amounts of soul music, how many Stax label products are actualy Northern? In fact Stax must win the Soul orientated label that released the least Northern! Award. Off the top of me head, I can't think of any apart from perhaps Linda Lyndell. That's the only Stax record I've owned that has gone in my Northern box.

Daryl Banks? William Bell 'Happy'?

[Guest Trevski]

Daryl Banks? William Bell 'Happy'?

Darrell Banks was Volt, if I remember rightly, (So was Lynda lyndell, for that matter, but it got a Uk Stax release) and I wouldn't class William Bell's "Happy" as Northern. The Actual STAX label, not counting subsiduarys, was very poor for Northern.

Edited October 5, 2008 by Trevski

[Guest john s]

Darrell Banks was Volt, if I remember rightly, (So was Lynda lyndell, for that matter, but it got a Uk Stax release) and I wouldn't class William Bell's "Happy" as Northern. The Actual STAX label, not counting subsiduarys, was very poor for Northern.

I bow to your knowledge on Darrell Banks, I've only got it on UK Stax. As for the William Bell, I first heard it on the 'Stax Northern Disco Sounds' LP, so I thought it might have been Northern...

[John Elias]

I bow to your knowledge on Darrell Banks, I've only got it on UK Stax. As for the William Bell, I first heard it on the 'Stax Northern Disco Sounds' LP, so I thought it might have been Northern...

Happy............club sound/early northern

[Guest Paul]

...The Actual STAX label, not counting subsiduarys, was very poor for Northern.

Hello Trevski,

Stax may not have issued many 'northern' soul tracks as a proportion of its total output but there are many gems in the catalogue. And if we group Motown's labels together I think we should also allow the Stax labels to be grouped together to include Volt, Enterprise, Truth, We Produce etc.

Think about Carla Thomas, Darrell Banks, William Bell, Otis Redding, Wendy Rene, Johnnie Taylor, Eddie Floyd, The Temprees, Ruby Johnson, JJ Barnes, Margie Joseph, Roz Ryan, Paul Thompson, John Gary Williams, Sandra Wright, Derek Martin, Colette Kelly, The Astors, Jimmy Hughes, etc.

The Stax group of labels issued a lot of tracks which should have been more popular on the 'northern' and 'modern' scenes ...including "Stealing Love" by the Emotions, "It's Time To Pay For The Fun We Had" by Jeanne & The Darlings, "You're Leaving Me" by Ollie & The Nightingales, "Yes Sir Brother" by Shirley Brown, "I'm So Glad I Fell In Love" by the Mad Lads and many more by The Dramatics, Little Milton, Annette Thomas, Mel & Tim, Rance Allen, Major Lance, The Charmels, Veda Brown, Kim Weston, etc.

Many of them might have been overlooked because they weren't rare.

Best regards,

[Guest]

Again, Stax has been mentioned, but although putting out large amounts of soul music, how many Stax label products are actualy Northern? In fact Stax must win the Soul orientated label that released the least Northern! Award. Off the top of me head, I can't think of any apart from perhaps Linda Lyndell. That's the only Stax record I've owned that has gone in my Northern box.

Johnny taylor- friday night

[Dave Moore]

Have to disagree with the Motown- Northern Soul-bit. Motown, and the motown sound, doesn't atomaticaly equate to northern soul. IMHO very few of Motown's output can be called Northern.

Good Lord! I can't believe you said that Mr Trevski! I always had you down as a well balanced, well listened, type of chappie with decent musical lugs. I now have to reappraise my evaluation and am struggling to avoid the conclusion that you are a deaf Philistine. You have SOME remaining credibilty due to your previous good behaviour, but only just!

Much of the output revered in Northern Soul circles was built on the Motown Sound or at least it paid more than a passing nod to it. In fact it was built by the same people! Played by the same musicians, produced by the same producers, arranged by the same arrangers, in some cases in other cities but with the distinct connection to the Snakepit. Admittedly by the time The Jackson Five etc hit Motown the 'Northern' style influence had had it's day, but you could say that about most US labels/companies by that stage. If you had to select a group of people who had influenced the "Northern Style" of sixties soul (from a purely musical perspective), more than anyone, then you'd be hard pushed to find anyone above H-D-H surely? There's been some fantastic contributors to the music like The Harthon Trio, Wylie/Hestor, Groovesville Productions, Pied Piper, Davis/Sanders, Smith/Carmichael etc etc. But surely H-D-H are the benchmark?

[Guest Trevski]

Much of the output revered in Northern Soul circles was built on the Motown Sound or at least it paid more than a passing nod to it. In fact it was built by the same people! Played by the same musicians, produced by the same producers, arranged by the same arrangers, in some cases in other cities but with the distinct connection to the Snakepit. Admittedly by the time The Jackson Five etc hit Motown the 'Northern' style influence had had it's day, but you could say that about most US labels/companies by that stage. If you had to select a group of people who had influenced the "Northern Style" of sixties soul (from a purely musical perspective), more than anyone, then you'd be hard pushed to find anyone above H-D-H surely? There's been some fantastic contributors to the music like The Harthon Trio, Wylie/Hestor, Groovesville Productions, Pied Piper, Davis/Sanders, Smith/Carmichael etc etc. But surely H-D-H are the benchmark?

Don't disagree with any of the above. I don't doubt their influence one bit, but for actual "Played at a venue, proper Northern" On Motown labels, then I stand by my comment. There are hundreds of great motown dance tracks, but that doesn't make 'em Northern soul. Club Soul yes, but whereas I would class, say, Velvelettes "lonely, lonely girl" as Northern, I wouldn't put the Tops "Shake me wake me" or "Cant help myself" in that catagory. I would accept Carolyn Crawford "Forget about me" at a Northern do, without question, but not "It's the same old song" for example.

Just MHO, but in the main, the bulk of the Motown output isn't Northern. HDH made many, many fantastic tunes for Motown but I don't want to hear the bulk of 'em at a northern do.

As far as Northern Soul is concerned, I'd rate the Wylie/Hestor, Groovesville, Pied Piper productions above any HDH, for that indefinable 'Northern' feel. Remember Dave, we were talking label output, not influence. Motown, without question, had an immense influence on the labels, artists, songs etc we revere as Northern, but compared to its vast output, the sides with a 'pure northern' feel it released are small, IMHO

The term Northern Soul was coined to differentiate the Northern Sound, from amongst other things, Motown. Try to explain northern to someone, and most people start with "Do you know Motown? Well it's a bit like that, but different" They don't say "Do you know Motown? Well thats what Northern Soul is" Not knocking Motown, I love it, and have done since I was 12yrs old, but Northern it aint, in the main.

Edited October 5, 2008 by Trevski

[Prophonics 2029]

Constellations are on part of the Amy Mala Bell club a wealth of records spring to mind.

[Dave Moore]

Don't disagree with any of the above. I don't doubt their influence one bit, but for actual "Played at a venue, proper Northern" On Motown labels, then I stand by my comment. There are hundreds of great motown dance tracks, but that doesn't make 'em Northern soul. Club Soul yes, but whereas I would class, say, Velvelettes "lonely, lonely girl" as Northern, I wouldn't put the Tops "Shake me wake me" or "Cant help myself" in that catagory. I would accept Carolyn Crawford "Forget about me" at a Northern do, without question, but not "It's the same old song" for example.

Just MHO, but in the main, the bulk of the Motown output isn't Northern. HDH made many, many fantastic tunes for Motown but I don't want to hear the bulk of 'em at a northern do.

As far as Northern Soul is concerned, I'd rate the Wylie/Hestor, Groovesville, Pied Piper productions above any HDH, for that indefinable 'Northern' feel. Remember Dave, we were talking label output, not influence. Motown, without question, had an immense influence on the labels, artists, songs etc we revere as Northern, but compared to its vast output, the sides with a 'pure northern' feel it released are small, IMHO

The term Northern Soul was coined to differentiate the Northern Sound, from amongst other things, Motown. Try to explain northern to someone, and most people start with "Do you know Motown? Well it's a bit like that, but different" They don't say "Do you know Motown? Well thats what Northern Soul is" Not knocking Motown, I love it, and have done since I was 12yrs old, but Northern it aint, in the main.

Then we'll have to agree to disagree. But that's OK. And this from a man/DJ who listed 'Ain't No Mountain High Enough' (Seb's Mix) on his playlist too!

I would venture that if the HDH 'classics' had failed at the commercial hurdle and been produced on Palmer, D Town, Sepia, or the like, then the perception of them as not 'Northern' would be somewhat different. As the great Man said on every Gordy outing "It's What's In The Grooves That Count".