O.v.o And C.r.&.p Venues

[Guest gordon russell]

For me the "bootleg" issue is pretty irrelevant, what is relevant is having fresh, exciting and awesome sets from people that are passionate about the music, and have the b*ll*cks to push the boundries, whilst keeping a floor. Unfortunately people what play "boots" are unlikely to have anything "tasty" in their armoury and are, by virtue of this.............CRAP D.J.'s. Having said that, there may be some that have a large disposable income to spend on these wonderful "originals", but can only spot a "good" record if it's got a high price on it.

Des Parker

spot on des...quality sets from the norths finest soulistas will always be fresh and quality,as is the case week in and week out.The djs/promoters that play the boots ect..rarely if ever come out of their little empires that they try and create in their area so it makes no differance to the soul scene.Big fish in tiny ponds.Long may it continue. tezza

[Guest gordon russell]

I know this might come over as being a bit strange, but it must be said as it happens...............I personally do not have a problem, with your local yokal soul night playing music from what ever format they see fit. On the whole it doesnt matter, the DJ is not pretending to be anything other than what they are & they have probably no further ambition DJ/promoter wise. If you asked them they would be totally honest & open with regards to all these issues & to be fair most likely playing a mixture of originals/boots/reissues & probably no carvers, as opposed to all boots or what ever. These people in my experience are generally quite unassuming & harmless & genuinely do what they do for the pure pleasure, certainly the couple of do's we have in my general area, one has been running in some form or another for over 20 years, the vast majority who attend regularly & have done for most of the time the event has been running, NEVER go any where else EVER. This is not because of sour grapes or any other reason what so ever, they wouldnt even consider it, most have never been to an Allnighter EVER, those that have, went well over 20 years ago & then were never regular attendees, more like they were swept along with what was the 'in' thing at the time. This event does not effect the local scene in any way shape or form what so ever & I defend their right to carry on doing what ever they want, they do not take punters from any other event & they have no bearing on NS what so ever, nor do they aspire to. The other event in the area has been going for slightly less time, but all of the above applies............the people attending & promoting & DJing have no aspirations other than to enjoy them selves...............most have absolutely no idea about the complexities of the greater NS SCENE, they neither know nor care, if you were to speak about it, you may well be speaking a different language, they would not have a scooby doo about & are genuinely nice people, who love to play & dance to ordinary club classic type NS with the odd reissue or boot of a more popular recent play, when I say this I mean something like 'Just Loving You'. This scenario i have no issue with what so ever & long may these events continue & long may the punters that go enjoy them..............BTW as an after thought, very few are SS members, they wouldnt know this site existed & why would they need to visit it ????????????.

So where do my issues lie................wannabe DJ/Promoters who are pretending to be something they are not by putting on events so they can DJ with their mates & pretend theyre important to the NS scene. These events do effect the NS scene cos they masquerde as the real thing & hide behind the defence I use for the real local soul nights as stated above, with regard to the bootleg/reissue scenario, many of these guys are having carvers done of big current tunes & will pass them off as originals if they can get away with it...................... they will use the, 'well the punter doesnt care they just wanna dance type excuses' constantly if caught out & will hide behind the genuine defence I have used for the real local soul nights........................thats my problem with C.R.A.P venues & I mean the latter ones I have discussed.

OK confused, so am I...............not sure if I have put this over very eloquently so I do apologise & I have not wanted to sound elitist in any way, just try to be honest.

Russ

spot on ,on both counts russ.........another thing why are people with a bit of integrity,honesty and who actually care...called SOUL POLICE? strange

[Steve G]

Two sub threads really running - I'd summarise my view as

Play OVO* and keep it interesting!

*with the prior caveats before everyone starts going on about unissued stuf for the 5th time

Edited September 17, 2008 by Steve G

[Guest gordon russell]

Two sub threads really running - I'd summarise my view as

Play OVO* and keep it interesting!

*with the prior caveats before everyone starts going on about unissued stuf for the 5th time

remember steve .....CHECK SHIRTS ARE OUT.......

[Russ Vickers]

who said i had objections about ov, I'm just making a point a few on here say ovo, but it's alright to have carvers of unisued tracks, LP tracks, copies of expensive originals that are to valuable to play, like i said i earlier i don't have a problem with this in fact i think it's a good idea but at the end of the day these are copies not ov stop deluding yourselves

and as for the nights i promote just look at the dj's on my flyer's, why would i pay a dj and on some occasions put them up in hotels then have them play boots (good comedy writes it's self) this McCarthy style of finger pointing doesn't bother me one bit in fact it makes me laugh, it's getting more like Monty python sketch by the minute this thread seems to be all about a few dj's putting their hands up and saying book me book me i only play ov or my mates doo is great they only play ov

if a dj i booked asked me to supply a cd player so he could play some unreleased stuff i would be more than happy to supply one

if some people want to go to doos that only play cd's or boots tapes or what ever it doesn't bother me in slightest i hope they enjoy themselves, the Marjory of people on the soul scene are far form stupid and know what doos are good and what are shite they don't need lists

just my humble opinion

Yeah, your right................see ya.

Russ

[Guest Beeks]

What a great thread...can't believe i've missed it...I now play OVO but I used to play boots and reissues a plenty alongside OV...i've not changed just to fit in...i've changed because I'm starting to enjoy tracking down originals...but like Ian Dewhirst said right on the first page...it's all well and good me playing my £50-200 Originals but if I had a record worth say £1000+ id be loathe to play it on various turntables week in week out for fear of devaluing it.

There is no need to play boots and reissues for the simple fact that there are plenty of fantastic quality soul records that are cheap as chips...buying boots just smacks of unoriginality...there are some gems out there you just have to dig a little...and if there is a monster that you love that is out of reach...get it on MP3 and enjoy it...just as you'd enjoy it if the richer DJ plays it out when you're at an event

Not only that it makes financial sense to buy original vinyl...why pay £10 for a reissue of a monster...when you could pay £10 for a track that could blow up and be worth alot more...original vinyl is an investment as many of the DJ high rollers on here will tell you...and if you have a good ear for music...not only will you find your own path...you will find your records increase in value...it's a win win situation.

Edited September 17, 2008 by Beeks

[Epic]

*with the prior caveats before everyone starts going on about unissued stuf for the 5th time

"The Prior Caveats" - what a great title for a C/U !

[sister dawn]

What a great thread...can't believe i've missed it...I now play OVO but I used to play boots and reissues a plenty alongside OV...i've not changed just to fit in...i've changed because I'm starting to enjoy tracking down originals...but like Ian Dewhirst said right on the first page...it's all well and good me playing my £50-200 Originals but if I had a record worth say £1000+ id be loathe to play it on various turntables week in week out for fear of devaluing it.

There is no need to play boots and reissues for the simple fact that there are plenty of fantastic quality soul records that are cheap as chips...buying boots just smacks of unoriginality...there are some gems out there you just have to dig a little...and if there is a monster that you love that is out of reach...get it on MP3 and enjoy it...just as you'd enjoy it if the richer DJ plays it out when you're at an event

BEEK'S BEST POST EVER

[Simon M]

"The Prior Caveats" - what a great title for a C/U !

Oh no is that Steve G inserting Caveats again! ?

[Roger Williams]

...buying boots just smacks of unoriginality...

As does spending a fortune on OVO to get and play the current big tunes.

Taste, common sense and the ability to not worry about what others are doing can't be bought though, sadly.

[Simon M]

As does spending a fortune on OVO to get and play the current big tunes.

Taste, common sense and the ability to not worry about what others are doing can't be bought though, sadly.

Is this your mate Flanny, Rog ?

Edited September 17, 2008 by Simon M

[Guest Beeks]

As does spending a fortune on OVO to get and play the current big tunes.

Create your own big tunes!

Any DJ worth his salt wants to break monsters not follow the crowd...i've got some records that are real gems none of which cost me more than £50...I know for a fact that people will both love and dance to them...and that's the top priority

[Guest Simon]

remember steve .....CHECK SHIRTS ARE OUT.......

Not for me there not, i've been wearing Ginghams, Brutus, Ben Sherman etc for 30 years & don't intend to stop now!

Simon

[Guest James Trouble]

Not for me there not, i've been wearing Ginghams, Brutus, Ben Sherman etc for 30 years & don't intend to stop now!

Simon

Only Mick H's check shirts are out. That's the word on the street, so they tell me

[Pete S]

Nobody said that your list was unknows, i was just saying that they have been around as long as the played to death oldies, and most punters who go to local soul nights only want played out oldies.

EG I want to a birthday do a few weeks ago in Burnley Dave Fergie (veep) played some great stuff hardly anyone dancing.

Next DJ first record f++kin Interplay dancefloor packed!

I think everbody knows you can buy good records cheaper than alot pressings that are about.

I blame care in the commuity for the price some people pay for a 85p boot.

The trouble here is - although Dave was playing great records, nobody was dancing, therefore he was not doing his job which is to get people to dance, is it not? He should have played something to get the people onto the floor. No offence meant to Dave by the way.

[Pete S]

why pay £10 for a reissue of a monster...

Er...because you like the record and can't afford to pay £1000 for an original?

[Guest Simon]

The trouble here is - although Dave was playing great records, nobody was dancing, therefore he was not doing his job which is to get people to dance, is it not? He should have played something to get the people onto the floor. No offence meant to Dave by the way.

Spot on!

A djs job is to entertain & to be able to read the floor & the audience, there's a time & a place for certain records no matter how good they are, i deliberately don't bring some of my better stuff out sometimes because i know the type of audience i'm playing to on that particular night won't want to hear it.

Simon

[John Elias]

Not for me there not, i've been wearing Ginghams, Brutus, Ben Sherman etc for 30 years & don't intend to stop now!

Simon

wot no Jaytex?

[Guest Beeks]

Er...because you like the record and can't afford to pay £1000 for an original?

Like I said in my previous post Pete...get it on MP3...why do people feel the need to play the monster out on reissue when there are so many great records for under £200 including Many Many monsters which fall into that price range...if you can't afford it...play it at home on cd...dont understand why so many DJs feel the need to play records the top minority of DJs are playing because they are £1000 plus records...personally im finding my own niche...and although I love records like 'Paulette Love You Babe' I won't lose any sleep if I don't own one

[Roger Williams]

Create your own big tunes!

Any DJ worth his salt wants to break monsters not follow the crowd...i've got some records that are real gems none of which cost me more than £50...I know for a fact that people will both love and dance to them...and that's the top priority

I don't disagree with you, but when these people are dancing to these real gems for under 50 quid of yours, what do you think will be the uppermost thought in their mind . . . "Wow, I love this, this is a great record" or "I hope this is original vinyl he's playing or I'm going to walk off the dancefloor"?

I'd hazard a guess at the former.

Roger

[Roger Williams]

Is this your mate Flanny, Rog ?

Why are you in dancingcollector's avatar?

[Simon M]

Why are you in dancingcollector's avatar?

My beard is trimmer

[Maark]

I don't disagree with you, but when these people are dancing to these real gems for under 50 quid of yours, what do you think will be the uppermost thought in their mind . . . "Wow, I love this, this is a great record" or "I hope this is original vinyl he's playing or I'm going to walk off the dancefloor"?

I'd hazard a guess at the former.

Roger

I've never once considered "is this the original" when I'm on the dancefloor...... frankly it's the last thing on my mind.....

[Epic]

Great list of tunes - but would you keep the dancefloor full for an hour with that set. When all is said & done a full dancefloor dictates how good a spot the DJ has delivered.

As I said - this thread keeps going round in circles.

As I said - this thread keeps going round in circles.

As I said - this thread keeps going round in circles.

As I said - this thread keeps going round in circles.

As I said - this thread keeps going round in circles.

[Wiganer1]

Create your own big tunes!

Any DJ worth his salt wants to break monsters not follow the crowd...i've got some records that are real gems none of which cost me more than £50...I know for a fact that people will both love and dance to them...and that's the top priority

====

and there goes the problem beeks

lots of djs/collectors want to do this but cant due to the glut of others playing boots/etc and not getting this opportunity

in the old days the main djs DJ'ed EVERY week so they could break records,,i guess most djs todya get a handful of bookings a year ,,hardly the foundation to get to break new tunes..but you gotta try..but like the number of venues the amount of budding djs isnt goiung to evaporate just yet!

ll good fun eh?

[Roger Williams]

What has actually been the point of this thread in the first place? Why do the venues need listing? Don't people just go where they're going to go anyway, regardless?

It's probably the most forum-led overblown issue there is. Or isn't as the case may be.

[Guest Andy Kempster]

You dont play 100% OVO, i dont know how you can come on here and lie about this, honesty is the best policy if you want everyones respect, as a promotor you should know better than to fob the public off to make false advertisement just to promote another sub standard night in Hitchin. Mark my words, everyone who attends your so called OVO nights will be waiting to catch you out, you know why ? Coz they can

then I shall relish the challenge, thanks for the input

[Simon M]

What has actually been the point of this thread in the first place? Why do the venues need listing? Don't people just go where they're going to go anyway, regardless?

It's probably the most forum-led overblown issue there is. Or isn't as the case may be.

I did Pm Steve Geee asking what made him start this thread..... no real reply yet

[Wiganer1]

I did Pm Steve Geee asking what made him start this thread..... no real reply yet

=========

we know we all love it really!!

[Davetay]

As I said - this thread keeps going round in circles.

As I said - this thread keeps going round in circles.

As I said - this thread keeps going round in circles.

As I said - this thread keeps going round in circles.

As I said - this thread keeps going round in circles.

Atlantic Starr, Atlantic Starr, Atlantic Starr, Atlantic Starr, Atlantic Starr.

[Davetay]

What has actually been the point of this thread in the first place? Why do the venues need listing? Don't people just go where they're going to go anyway, regardless?

It's probably the most forum-led overblown issue there is. Or isn't as the case may be.

Rodger, It gives us all something to morn about to pass away the time

Dave

[Guest Beeks]

====

and there goes the problem beeks

lots of djs/collectors want to do this but cant due to the glut of others playing boots/etc and not getting this opportunity

in the old days the main djs DJ'ed EVERY week so they could break records,,i guess most djs todya get a handful of bookings a year ,,hardly the foundation to get to break new tunes..but you gotta try..but like the number of venues the amount of budding djs isnt goiung to evaporate just yet!

ll good fun eh?

I think this is changing slowly though...was pleasantly surprised by the backroom in Rugby last week where they were playing all sorts...these guys for the majority are not your big named DJs but up and coming talent who want to play out less expensive but nonetheless danceworthy records that could go big in time and carry their set lists with them....

Besides that...not all Monsters are mega rare...surely must only be a tiny minority that book at over a grand...so to say all monsters are inaccessable is a slight exaggeration

Ok i'm single and have a semi decent job...my budget per record is maybe £10-200 and maybe somw people can't even afford that price range...but as a DJ...you can't beat that feeling of receiving an original record in the post...receiving a goldmine record doesn't have the same allure... Just as much as you can't beat that feeling of playing a record out that is semi known or unknown but a belting dance track...

Im no veteran in this scene as you all know...but I DJ alot around Manchester in the pub/club environment...and I still get kicks from people coming up to the box and asking what a record is...you wouldn't get that with massive hits

[Davetay]

I've never once considered "is this the original" when I'm on the dancefloor...... frankly it's the last thing on my mind.....

If i don,t know the DJ, it,s the first thing on my mind, second thing go to the decks and have a look.

[Pete S]

If i don,t know the DJ, it,s the first thing on my mind, second thing go to the decks and have a look.

Third thing, see it's not an original, drink up and go home

or

see it's not original, make a few phone calls, Russ arives and arrests everyone

[Wiganer1]

I think this is changing slowly though...was pleasantly surprised by the backroom in Rugby last week where they were playing all sorts...these guys for the majority are not your big named DJs but up and coming talent who want to play out less expensive but nonetheless danceworthy records that could go big in time and carry their set lists with them....

Besides that...not all Monsters are mega rare...surely must only be a tiny minority that book at over a grand...so to say all monsters are inaccessable is a slight exaggeration

Ok i'm single and have a semi decent job...my budget per record is maybe £10-200 and maybe somw people can't even afford that price range...but as a DJ...you can't beat that feeling of receiving an original record in the post...receiving a goldmine record doesn't have the same allure... Just as much as you can't beat that feeling of playing a record out that is semi known or unknown but a belting dance track...

Im no veteran in this scene as you all know...but I DJ alot around Manchester in the pub/club environment...and I still get kicks from people coming up to the box and asking what a record is...you wouldn't get that with massive hits

===========

totally agree beeks - been there and done all that - keep up the good work!

[Roger Williams]

Rodger, It gives us all something to morn about to pass away the time

Dave

Dave, I might not agree with it but I actually can relate to the whole OVO issue and understand that original releases are part of the scene's roots, especially in collecting terms, but sometimes on here I think people take it just a tad too far when they bandy around words like 'integrity' and 'honesty' and 'respect' etc. in terms of playing music at a venue, it all just seems so overblown and out of context to me.

Soul music and the scene is a hobby, a leisure time pursuit, granted a passionate one for most of us, but does it really warrant people believing they have a better venue than others or they're a better DJ than others because they buy and play original releases of records? Fair enough, if original vinyl is your thing, fine, it actually is for me in terms of the LPs I've always collected, but why on earth make a list of OVO and "CR&P" venues in the first place, if not to do down and belittle the soul 'lower classes' or 'substandard venues' playing their music with no concern of format? At least that's the feeling I get from a lot of the posts in this thread.

And how come people who run these 'ordinary' nights never start threads like this?

Surely people would get more 'respect' if they just went about their scene business in the best way they can and consistently upheld their own views and beliefs, rather than coming on here worrying and moaning about what other people should and should be doing or playing?

Roger

[Maark]

If i don,t know the DJ, it,s the first thing on my mind, second thing go to the decks and have a look.

F*ck that, I'm too busy enjoying myself. The only time I'll go up to the decks is to ask a DJ what that brilliant tune I've never heard was. Case in point, 'Too young for me"' by the Ambassadors which was spun in the freestyle room at Rugby last Saturday. . I now have an MP3 of said tune which I've flogged to death since! . If I could find it, or any tune that grabs me for under £20 (pref under £15) on OV then I buy it because a record has history dripping from it and unlike an MP3 you can actually touch it.

I would never dream of asking a DJ "is that the original" because I'd have no way of verifying whether it was or not and like I said, I go out on a Saturday night to dance.......

[Jellybean]

I think this is changing slowly though...was pleasantly surprised by the backroom in Rugby last week where they were playing all sorts...these guys for the majority are not your big named DJs but up and coming talent who want to play out less expensive but nonetheless danceworthy records that could go big in time and carry their set lists with them....

Besides that...not all Monsters are mega rare...surely must only be a tiny minority that book at over a grand...so to say all monsters are inaccessable is a slight exaggeration

Ok i'm single and have a semi decent job...my budget per record is maybe £10-200 and maybe somw people can't even afford that price range...but as a DJ...you can't beat that feeling of receiving an original record in the post...receiving a goldmine record doesn't have the same allure... Just as much as you can't beat that feeling of playing a record out that is semi known or unknown but a belting dance track...

Im no veteran in this scene as you all know...but I DJ alot around Manchester in the pub/club environment...and I still get kicks from people coming up to the box and asking what a record is...you wouldn't get that with massive hits

I totally agree with everything you have said Beeks and i am no veteran in this scene either i try to buy OVO as cheaply as possible, the most i've spent on a certain tune that i've been after for a while is £285 to be precise. And i consider that to be a lot of money for a record.

JB xxxKTFxxx

[macca]

I've always been of the opinion that a 'pressing', bought with your school dinner money/pocket money, was for home consumption, or the tuesday night 'soul session' at the local school youth club. when somebody, invariably older, say 18 & at work, turned up at the club with rarities, we were all gobsmacked, in awe even.

but, it was the youth club, not a soul night with paid deejays.

I admired these guys, lugging in their huge boxes and spinning the new discoveries, watching knowledgeable collectors sift through boxes, proudly having their piccie taken with their latest rare purchase etc, etc.

There came a point, when I was 17 & in my first job that I could no longer justify buying pressings even for my bedroom. I started, very slowly at first, to build up a collection, spending most of the night in the record bars listening to the 'shop talk' of dealers like Mick Smith. I ventured into the main hall, where big name jocks spun the big sounds of the day. I began to see the 'pressing crowd' as either misguided fools or, I hate to say it, plain divs. You might call it an elitist position, but it was how I (and many others) felt at the time. To talk of the dancefloor as if it were some kind of mobile mass of jelly with no mind of its own is quite insulting in my opinion. Some dancers clearly care about OVO & some don't. I can't help thinking that NOVAP (can we use this acronym?) is a cop out. I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but I consider rare records to be a vital component of 'thing' we call Rare Soul. Does this make me an elitist/anorak/taliban etc, etc? I think not.

[Steve G]

"The Prior Caveats" - what a great title for a C/U !

Indeed. Why didn't I think of that?

[Steve G]

but why on earth make a list of OVO and "CR&P" venues in the first place, if not to do down and belittle the soul 'lower classes' or 'substandard venues' playing their music with no concern of format? Roger

I'll tell you why I started this Roger you old cynic. A few of us were looking at northern venues to go to the other week and we were going through them - shall we go here, shall we go there. All of them were quite a way away (1-2 hours) , we didn't know some of the clubs or many of the DJS and we couldn't make up our mind where to go. Some of us like going to smaller more intimate clubs where we are not recognised The discussion turned to what's the music policy? Wigan Oldies / Newies / 70s / new / Mix / ATB etc. and then would we be hearing old Wigan bootlegs played for the umpteenth time. None of us fancied that. We decided we couldn't decide where to go and went nowhere instead. Whilst that saved £50 in petrol it got me thinking - hmmm would be nice to know where we could hear the stuff we wanted to hear. Nothing worse than getting home at 3 am and having had a miserable night. I thought OV versus Boots was a good start. Could equally have started with "what constitutes an ATB night" or "What is the make up of your night" - maybe that'll be the next thread.

Anyway there's your answer.

[Steve G]

then I shall relish the challenge, thanks for the input

Hey Andy don't let this wind you up.

Bet there's not even a whiff of a boot in the sales boxes on the night

The DJs certainly won't have any.

[Steve G]

I've never once considered "is this the original" when I'm on the dancefloor...... frankly it's the last thing on my mind.....

Oh I have. Especially when it's a rare record that I have in my collection

[Maark]

Oh I have. Especially when it's a rare record that I have in my collection

I can appreciate that........ it's a bit like when I see someone using my artwork without my permission.......

[Davetay]

Third thing, see it's not an original, drink up and go home

or

see it's not original, make a few phone calls, Russ arives and arrests everyone

No make a few phone calls, the Soul Taliban arrives, the dancers shot and the djs hung drawn and quartered

[Simon M]

Steve , start a thread on how to avoid Dullards , Cheese , Mamsey Hamsey and Mick H's shirts!

[Davetay]

I'll tell you why I started this Roger you old cynic.

Ive heard Rodger called alot of things but not OLD

[Roger Williams]

Ive heard Rodger called alot of things but not OLD

Well I am 50, Dave!!!!

Names have never bothered me but strangely, people spelling my name with a 'd' in the middle does!!

[Guest Paul]

I find myself agreeing with Roger's comments.

It certainly is fascinating stuff but there's a danger of some people taking it too seriously.

I think most "punters" are more concerned with how good a record is than anything else. And if a DJ is admired, it should be more for his taste.

We should always expect good manners and DJ etiquette, of course, but there aren't any "rules". And that's because nobody has the right to make the rules in the first place.

One man cannot dictate right or wrong to another man ...but one man can influence others by playing good music.

No disrespect to anyone here, I'm just saying what I believe.

Best regards,

Paul

[Davetay]

Well I am 50, Dave!!!!

Names have never bothered me but strangely, people spelling my name with a 'd' in the middle does!!

I didn,t realize you were 50, and i,ve always been shit at spelling