O.v.o And C.r.&.p Venues

[chrissie]

Straight question - do you play bootlegs?

Steve, I've just realised that Blue SKies (wherever we happen to be )is not on your OVO list

QoFxx

[Steve G]

I accept there are collectors out there who may agree with you - Someone recently mentioned they would prefer the west coast dist. version as opposed to the east coast which he considered not the first press. IMVHO that is utter sh**e - Economics / Promotion etc etc play a part in a records life and success/failure. Dont forget a lot of these local 45s labels had meagre budgets to start with.

Rich

in some cases the national release far harder than the local release - so more desirable to Collectors - oops damn after 23 pages I FINALLY mentioned the "C" word.

Cue cries of "soul police" "soul elite" etc etc

[Steve G]

Steve, I've just realised that Blue SKies (wherever we happen to be )is not on your OVO list

QoFxx

Have you seen Martin's playbox lately? Good point, will add it.

[chrissie]

Have you seen Martin's playbox lately? Good point, will add it.

The funny thing about that is, last November before our first London BSSC I made someone go through my play box just in case as after 30 years away from the decks I wanted to be 100% sure, knowing "the chin strokers of old london town" that nothing un-toward had slipped into my play box only to go and pack the wrong copy of QOF (to play the b side before anyone shouts played out oldie) and was only when Dave from WOH followed me and spotted it, I had been so nervous about my impending doom behind the decks hadn't noticed I' packed the wrong one or even worse put it on the decks The boot has now been put in a seperate record box that never sees the light of day, couldn't believe me of all people bringing out the wrong copy of QOF Stubbsy has never let me forget it.

QoFxx

Edited September 24, 2008 by chrissie

[Ady Croasdell]

OK chaps/chapettes got a question for you all...................I think this has been done before on SS before as a separate thread but is very relevant to this thread imho-

How would a jock playing 'The Belles - Let me do it - Soul Fox' be viewed in the OVO debate? Would it qualify as say, playing a Grapevine 2000 unreleased track or carving an unreleased CD track would be?

Think there was some discussion of whether it was them and I think Kent reissued it on CD by someone else? (sorry forgot the details!)

'If' Mr Soul Fox 'legally' released this via the guy who owned the Mirwood masters would the playing of this brilliant 60's Northern dancer be allowed on the pink Soul Fox label

Thoughts please?

Cheers

Steve

Steve analyse the first half of your last sentence: you've not been paying attention have you?

Mr Soussain booted it on Soul Fox after "borrowing" Mirwoods tapes. It was of course the Mirettes singing not the Belles and the fact that he changed the group's name shows how dodgy it was; the Jackie Lee one he just changed the title as it was obviously Jackie. So the first legit release was on Kent's Mirwood Soul Vol 2. If you wanna get a carver done of it for your own DJing, be my guest! And no you can't play the pink 'un, the only person who got money off that was Soussain; the artists writers and producers who made it got sod all.

Ady

[Sharon Cooper]

Well you say you play OVO so not sure why you are kicking up dust on this. If you play OV do you want adding to the list?

I'm not sure if the R & Tiaras qualifies me ,anyway if I stick to my thoughts on the thread I am already disqualified. Perhaps I'm to severe, but I do think the first issue, however little the budget, is the OV.

Chris

Edited September 24, 2008 by bridget

[Guest mel brat]

...The years of travelling up and down this country was to HEAR certain DJs who you knew had certain records (original vinyl) OR they where guaranteed to make your head spin and your feet jump with something new. If everyone played boots and CDs then no-one would travel anywhere, venues would be empty and the scene would die a death, because there would be nothing to travel for...

With respect

Phyllis

Absolutely spot-on!

[Roger Williams]

Well you say you play OVO so not sure why you are kicking up dust on this. If you play OV do you want adding to the list?

Are you printing up some certificates for these venues to hang behind the decks? Or badges for OVO DJ's to wear? You could set up your own organisation, Steve, in the way we have to conform to ISO standards at work, and you could recruit OVO Inspectors to go round each venue on a quarterly basis and ask all the DJ's and promoters to fill in forms and problem/complaint reports and file them away to show to the OVO Inspectors when they do their rounds.

Could be onto something here don't you think?

Look out for stickers being printed up and put in the back window next to the OKEH stickers of cars with tenuous registration plates containing the letters OUL coming to a car park outside a venue near you.

Roger

Edited September 25, 2008 by Soulsorts

[Steve G]

Are you printing up some certificates for these venues to hang behind the decks? Or badges for OVO DJ's to wear? You could set up your own organisation, Steve, in the way we have to conform to ISO standards at work, and you could recruit OVO Inspectors to go round each venue on a quarterly basis and ask all the DJ's and promoters to fill in forms and problem/complaint reports and file them away to show to the OVO Inspectors when they do their rounds.

Could be onto something here don't you think?

Nah I've got a life mate. But it's quite a funny idea. I am in agreement with what Philly said - I ain't gonna travel anywhere farther than my front door to a northern soul gig if all I am going to hear is a load of boots mixed in. Will only travel to northern venues where I know there are credible rekkids spun. As a punter that's my choice.

[Roger Williams]

Nah I've got a life mate. But it's quite a funny idea. I am in agreement with what Philly said - I ain't gonna travel anywhere farther than my front door to a northern soul gig if all I am going to hear is a load of boots mixed in. Will only travel to northern venues where I know there are credible rekkids spun. As a punter that's my choice.

I know.

[Guest gordon russell]

heres a thought....If l go to a venue and say the proffs comes on l may look up to the decks and if l see someone l know to have good collections l would not question wether it is a boot or not,if l didn't know the guy then l would ask who's djing and someone more knowledgable than me would tell me and also wether the guy was kosher (tune wise),that would be enough.I only go up to the decks A.if l know the dj B. to ask for a tune/or see what one is.The point of my thread is YOU don't need to look at every tune,you just kinda know who's playing what,if that makes any sense,l tend to go to ovo venues anyway they have more va va vooom.Did go out the other night ...the PARLIAMENTS came on , looked up and saw a certain dj behind the decks and just knew instantly it was a carver as were most of the other tunes he played. atb tezza

[Guest gordon russell]

tell you another thing.....these folk who play boots carvers and cd's.....they have absolutely no shame at all

[Sean Hampsey]

So what kind of collection have I got?

Or Kev Briscoe?

Or John Benson?

Or Tats Taylor?

Last thing I'd be doing is carting my entire Record collection around to a Soul Night.

One has very little to do with the other (IMO).

Nobody would have a clue what I own from just looking at the decks - other than whats on at that time!

Do we want to turn the 'so called' PROGRESSIVE Soul scene into some kind of 'Antiques flippin Roadshow'

Wheres the va-vav voom in that?

[Simon M]

tell you another thing.....these folk who play boots carvers and cd's.....they have absolutely no shame at all

But surely these DJ's are protecting their OV or saving on sellotape

[Sean Hampsey]

But surely these DJ's are protecting their OV or saving on sellotape

Yeh.... part of the 'Save The Sellotape' campaign!

Chance for Roger to Knock Up a new sticker!

[Simon M]

Yeh.... part of the 'Save The Sellotape' campaign!

Chance for Roger to Knock Up a new sticker!

People will think the Sealeo-Tape is some sort of endangerd animal

Edited September 25, 2008 by Simon M

[chrissie]

Are you printing up some certificates for these venues to hang behind the decks? Or badges for OVO DJ's to wear? You could set up your own organisation, Steve, in the way we have to conform to ISO standards at work, and you could recruit OVO Inspectors to go round each venue on a quarterly basis and ask all the DJ's and promoters to fill in forms and problem/complaint reports and file them away to show to the OVO Inspectors when they do their rounds.

Could be onto something here don't you think?

Look out for stickers being printed up and put in the back window next to the OKEH stickers of cars with tenuous registration plates containing the letters OUL coming to a car park outside a venue near you.

Roger

Being a qualified senior ISO Auditor I would welcome this as I could see a nice side line , travelling to venues, at the requst of the promoters in order to asses the venues and DJs to enable a OVO Certification to be awarded. I would do this for a small fee plus large vodka cokes and expensess, paid by the promotor or individual DJ who wanted certification

QoFxx

[chrissie]

heres a thought....If l go to a venue and say the proffs comes on l may look up to the decks and if l see someone l know to have good collections l would not question wether it is a boot or not,if l didn't know the guy then l would ask who's djing and someone more knowledgable than me would tell me and also wether the guy was kosher (tune wise),that would be enough.I only go up to the decks A.if l know the dj B. to ask for a tune/or see what one is.The point of my thread is YOU don't need to look at every tune,you just kinda know who's playing what,if that makes any sense,l tend to go to ovo venues anyway they have more va va vooom.Did go out the other night ...the PARLIAMENTS came on , looked up and saw a certain dj behind the decks and just knew instantly it was a carver as were most of the other tunes he played. atb tezza

Spot on Tezza, but it does worry me that I find myself agreeing with you on something

QoFxx

[Guest]

heres a thought....If l go to a venue and say the proffs comes on l may look up to the decks and if l see someone l know to have good collections l would not question wether it is a boot or not,if l didn't know the guy then l would ask who's djing and someone more knowledgable than me would tell me and also wether the guy was kosher (tune wise),that would be enough.I only go up to the decks A.if l know the dj B. to ask for a tune/or see what one is.The point of my thread is YOU don't need to look at every tune,you just kinda know who's playing what,if that makes any sense,l tend to go to ovo venues anyway they have more va va vooom.Did go out the other night ...the PARLIAMENTS came on , looked up and saw a certain dj behind the decks and just knew instantly it was a carver as were most of the other tunes he played. atb tezza

ive come to the conclusion that some not all these djs who play of boots etc dont know what a original is from a boot

[Pete S]

is it just as bad pete or worse or about the same level of crapness lol

Well I love Ghost In My House because it was the first Northern record I ever danced to in public!

The lp version is much tamer than the single but a lot of that is to do with the stereo mix.

[Pete S]

This is undoubtedly the most boring and up it's own arse thread ever on Soul Source.

I have never seen so many sad cases gathered together in one place.

Get a life and enjoy yourselves, life's too short to spend time worrying about record labels.

Can you imagine what an outsider would make of all this, you can't play a record because it's on the wrong label despite many of your paying customers weanting to hear it.

Edited September 25, 2008 by Pete S

[Sean Hampsey]

Get a life and enjoy yourselves, life's too short to spend time worrying about record labels.

Class

[Steve Plumb]

Steve analyse the first half of your last sentence: you've not been paying attention have you?

Mr Soussain booted it on Soul Fox after "borrowing" Mirwoods tapes. It was of course the Mirettes singing not the Belles and the fact that he changed the group's name shows how dodgy it was; the Jackie Lee one he just changed the title as it was obviously Jackie. So the first legit release was on Kent's Mirwood Soul Vol 2. If you wanna get a carver done of it for your own DJing, be my guest! And no you can't play the pink 'un, the only person who got money off that was Soussain; the artists writers and producers who made it got sod all.

Ady

Hee Hee - Thank you Ady........................My post was tongue-in-cheek as you guessed but i'd forgotten the story, which you have thankfully reposted

Just wanted to highlight once again what a fookin tune it is! Mirwood Soul Vol 2 it is then played directly from the CD will suit me .........................need top Northern bods to carver it and start hammering it as this definitley deserves to be a monster oldie imho......................................or maybe next years Kent Anniv 45 now THAT would guarantee a scene revival of this top tune!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers

Steve

[Sean Hampsey]

Mirwood Soul Vol 2 it is then played directly from the CD will suit me

Cheers

Steve

Hi Steve,

I'd love you to elaborate on that part of your post.

So you concur that for otherwise unreleased CD Only tracks, it's perfectly legitimate to play off CD?

I see you also said that 'Top Northern Bods' might like to do a carver of it... but for everyone else the CD format is OK?

(Said I was gonna leave the shiny disc question until after we'd nailed the Re-Issue debate, so you've given me a good opportunity)

Cheers matey

The Poser Man

[Guest nomad]

This is undoubtedly the most boring and up it's own arse thread ever on Soul Source.

I have never seen so many sad cases gathered together in one place.

Get a life and enjoy yourselves, life's too short to spend time worrying about record labels.

Can you imagine what an outsider would make of all this, you can't play a record because it's on the wrong label despite many of your paying customers weanting to hear it.

Sad to say I almost agree with you there Pete.....You should collect modern mate.... less chance of it not being original

[Garethx]

Play the CD.

Doing a carver of a CD-only 'unreleased' track is perverse and more than a touch embarrassing if you ask me: like pretending you've got an authentic studio disc of it: the adult equivalent of singing into a hairbrush in front of your bedroom mirror.

Wasn't it Levine who introduced the idea of making acetates of LP-only tracks at the Mecca with Willie Hutch Lucky To be Loved on RCA?

[Ian Dewhirst]

Play the CD.

Doing a carver of a CD-only 'unreleased' track is perverse and more than a touch embarrassing if you ask me: like pretending you've got an authentic studio disc of it: the adult equivalent of singing into a hairbrush in front of your bedroom mirror.

Couldn't agree more Gareth!

Ian D

[Pete S]

life's too short to spend time worrying about record labels.

">

[Steve Plumb]

Hi Steve,

I'd love you to elaborate on that part of your post.

So you concur that for otherwise unreleased CD Only tracks, it's perfectly legitimate to play off CD?

I see you also said that 'Top Northern Bods' might like to do a carver of it... but for everyone else the CD format is OK?

(Said I was gonna leave the shiny disc question until after we'd nailed the Re-Issue debate, so you've given me a good opportunity)

Cheers matey

The Poser Man

Hiya Sean

Two issues here matey - yep i'd personally have no problems playing it out off CD if it was a bona-fide unreleased track OR a CD only track, like i do for loads of tracks (eg Arthur Adams - Let me love you tonight, Four Tops - Clip my wings, Five wagers - Love diet, Shirley Brown - Even if the signs were wrong, Patrick Henry - Loving you (yes even over the 45!) etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. Doesn't matter to me mate, them's MY rules which i use for ME (others won't agree that's for sure!)...............carvers mean f**k all to me BUT I have no problem whatsoever with anyone carving one of the above (I DON'T agree with folks carving and playing out summat rare or difficult to obtain that has been released on vinyl (eg Tolbert etc) BUT that's another story!)........which leads us to the second issue, the 'top Northern bods' comment was meant in the context of pure Northern gigs where the majority don't have CD players, so the only way it can be broken as a sound is via a carver (eg Angel Risoff - Break out the tears (originally a CD only track) or say Marvin Gaye - When I feel the need (an unreleased track issued on CD) imho perfectly OK for a DJ to carve these if he/she believes they can get mileage out of it BUT is restricted cos the clubs he plays at don't have CD's). I played Angel & Marvin Gaye off CD at The Orwell NO problem with NO guilty conscience BUT someone like Flanny who plays at many of the top Northern venues had to have a carver of Angel done otherwise he wouldn't have had chance play it out on the Northern scene.

Does this make sense? Hope so...........I didn't want to get dragged into this BUT you did ask

Do i need to get me hard hat out????

Cheers

Steve

[Steve G]

Do i need to get me hard hat out????

Cheers

Steve

No, a pragmatic response methinks Steve.

[Supercorsa]

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[Sean Hampsey]

Hiya Sean

Two issues here matey - yep i'd personally have no problems playing it out off CD if it was a bona-fide unreleased track OR a CD only track, like i do for loads of tracks (eg Arthur Adams - Let me love you tonight, Four Tops - Clip my wings, Five wagers - Love diet, Shirley Brown - Even if the signs were wrong, Patrick Henry - Loving you (yes even over the 45!) etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. Doesn't matter to me mate, them's MY rules which i use for ME (others won't agree that's for sure!)...............carvers mean f**k all to me BUT I have no problem whatsoever with anyone carving one of the above (I DON'T agree with folks carving and playing out summat rare or difficult to obtain that has been released on vinyl (eg Tolbert etc) BUT that's another story!)........which leads us to the second issue, the 'top Northern bods' comment was meant in the context of pure Northern gigs where the majority don't have CD players, so the only way it can be broken as a sound is via a carver (eg Angel Risoff - Break out the tears (originally a CD only track) or say Marvin Gaye - When I feel the need (an unreleased track issued on CD) imho perfectly OK for a DJ to carve these if he/she believes they can get mileage out of it BUT is restricted cos the clubs he plays at don't have CD's). I played Angel & Marvin Gaye off CD at The Orwell NO problem with NO guilty conscience BUT someone like Flanny who plays at many of the top Northern venues had to have a carver of Angel done otherwise he wouldn't have had chance play it out on the Northern scene.

Does this make sense? Hope so...........I didn't want to get dragged into this BUT you did ask

Do i need to get me hard hat out????

Cheers

Steve

Superb reply Steve - and I'm with you on all points.

Your post even has the huge bonus of some awesome Plumby tips!

Thanks for taking the time to help clarify.

I really think we're getting some where.

Cheers matey

The Poser Man

[Sean Hampsey]

No, a pragmatic response methinks Steve.

Agree Steve,

We can always rely on the PlumbMeister to deliver the goods!

Sean

[Garethx]

Couldn't agree more Gareth!

Ian D

I should state that before the CD is released a carver of such tracks given to deejays is a perfectly legitimate promotional tool for the record company involved.

[Sean Hampsey]

I should state that before the CD is released a carver of such tracks given to deejays is a perfectly legitimate promotional tool for the record company involved.

Thank F*ck for that Gareth.

I've been hammering the George Jackson "All In My Mind" from the Kent CD, prior to release, for the past 9 months!

Half expected to see a Burning Cross outside the window!

Sean

[Garethx]

Thank F*ck for that Gareth.

I've been hammering the George Jackson "All In My Mind" from the Kent CD, prior to release, for the past 9 months!

Half expected to see a Burning Cross outside the window!

Sean

Hi Sean

Do you not agree with me that it's slightly perverse to get a carver done of a track that's already in the public domain via CD, usually with nice artwork, tortuously researched sleevenotes and every i dotted and t crossed legally?

The old chestnut of "Northern venues don't have CD players" doesn't really wash when you can buy a second-hand Sony Discman for less than the price of a pint and plug it into the decks. As I state above the pre-release status of such tracks is a different matter: in that case a carver given by the record company to a select band of deejays to raise the profile of a track is a legitimate marketing tool used by the owners of the music.

[Ady Croasdell]

Hi Sean

Do you not agree with me that it's slightly perverse to get a carver done of a track that's already in the public domain via CD, usually with nice artwork, tortuously researched sleevenotes and every i dotted and t crossed legally?

The old chestnut of "Northern venues don't have CD players" doesn't really wash when you can buy a second-hand Sony Discman for less than the price of a pint and plug it into the decks. As I state above the pre-release status of such tracks is a different matter: in that case a carver given by the record company to a select band of deejays to raise the profile of a track is a legitimate marketing tool used by the owners of the music.

I have a hard enough time getting the decks to go round to worry about where the hell a cd player would plug in!

Actually I would play off CD if that's the only format it's on, but I don't think any of the other DJs would so I don't get round to it.

[Wiganer1]

I have a hard enough time getting the decks to go round to worry about where the hell a cd player would plug in!

Actually I would play off CD if that's the only format it's on, but I don't think any of the other DJs would so I don't get round to it.

===

same here ady...did a do with cds before and hated it...finding tracklistings,,then getting the traack ,,then pressing a wrong button...oh yuck...not for me!!

[Sean Hampsey]

Hi Sean

Do you not agree with me that it's slightly perverse to get a carver done of a track that's already in the public domain via CD, usually with nice artwork, tortuously researched sleevenotes and every i dotted and t crossed legally?

The old chestnut of "Northern venues don't have CD players" doesn't really wash when you can buy a second-hand Sony Discman for less than the price of a pint and plug it into the decks. As I state above the pre-release status of such tracks is a different matter: in that case a carver given by the record company to a select band of deejays to raise the profile of a track is a legitimate marketing tool used by the owners of the music.

Hi Gareth,

I most certainly do agree that a venue that promotes VO "Vinyl Only" in this day and age seems to me to be extremely backward thinking... and the main reason is that the advent of the CD has afforded us far more previously unreleased material than we ever thought possible.

Prior to the CD 'previously unreleased' material becoming available was almost unheard of (people tend to cite Betty Boo as an example - and then run out of ideas ). This technology has the advantage of being relatively inexpensive to produce - in fairly low quantities - and because of this it has yielded scores of 'new' (new/old) tracks and helped to make them available for the DJ / Soul Fan to own, play and promote.

I couldn't imagine the likes of the awesome Bettye Swann "I Want Sunday Back Again" would have gained a posthumous issue, becoming available to us all, were it not for the CD.

How sad would that have been?

Must admit, this is an interesting subject and one that I've given a lot of thought to recently, thanks to Steve starting the thread. Not sure if anyone else has reached the same conclusion as me - or if there's anyone even remotely on my wavelength for that matter but here's my (further) two penneth.

As a Soul record collector, I fully understand the attraction (or is it an obsession?) with rare, original and obscure vinyl. I've been addicted for the past 40 years - and still can't shake it loose - but despite this, I'm still bothered by 'Original Vinyl Only' as a principal when it comes to the actual 'promotion' of Soul Music, particularly 'new' Soul Music and the role of the DJ in the UK today.

But in answer to your question, I think that there's a lot that's quite perverse about the Northern scene and the 'non-use' of such a superb media is one of them.

The biggest challenge with the dogma is that it prohibits the programming of New releases.

Look back at our history; we always played new and recent releases. We played them in the 60's, 70's and 80's... but something happened along the way to change all that. The fact is, new material hardly ever emerges on vinyl these days - so then how does a DJ get the chance to play anything contemporary that might work on the 'Northern' dancefloor - without accepting the new technology on which it appears?

Back in the 70's and early 80's, I could go out and buy a brand new Soul 45 release, on a Friday afternoon (for less than a quid) and at the Nighters and gigs I worked, help to make it a biggie... over that same weekend!

Likewise, I could get my hands on a new or recent 12" or LP - or dig into the collection - and pull out a handful of unplayed (or underplayed) album tracks and do the same with those i.e. fill the floor and introduce the crowd to something fresh and new - every single week!

Nowadays there seems to be little or no opportunity to do anything remotely like that and I can only summise its because, simultaneously with the Music Industry moving away from vinyl, the UK Soul Scene seemed to have become even more retro (60's biased) in music and playlist policy and ever more blindly loyal to the 'Vinyl' format - this on a scene that was pioneered by 'Mods' (Modernists) - and it's my belief that this thinking is strangling the opportunity to play anything that's actually fresh, recent or in any way innovative!

Early 80's, at Clifton Hall, Cleethorpes and elsewhere, brand new material was always programmed heavily along with newly discovered old stuff, classics and revivals - all in the one room and to the same crowd. Nobody thought that they were being particularly 'open-minded' its just the way it had always been. For the DJ it was about pleasing the floor whilst pushing the envelope and introducing the dancers to something new (a new artist, a new album, a new sound!). I may be wrong, but there seems to be nowhere on the scene that this happens nowadays and (IMO) it's hugely detrimental to the promotion of Soul Music in the UK... and to the real progression of the scene in general.

Sure, we're different to other Music scenes in many ways - we hunt for our music and track down the artists that nobody else would ever champion, we dedicate time, money and resources to looking for that elusive gem, but the argument that 'we're different' is now actually working against us and in many ways holds us back from enjoying and discovering even more. There's seems to me to be a few 'special' criteria on what makes a tune 'work' and become accepted on the Northern dancefloor and though there is a real mystique attached to scarcity or the 'unknown' it never was solely about 'rarity' to my mind. It was much more about the magic created by the Music itself - regardless of when it was made or who it was made by.

I fear that while ever we take the view that 'Only Vinyl' is acceptable, it's inevitable that a great deal of incredible Music will be lost.

Sean

[Steve Plumb]

I should state that before the CD is released a carver of such tracks given to deejays is a perfectly legitimate promotional tool for the record company involved.

Well yeah I agree with that but also a CD-R or a good quality MP3 of the track would do for me too. I have NO problem playing forthcoming unreleased stuff like this and have done this for ages!

Cheers

Steve

[Garethx]

A great post, Sean, and sums up what I and and maybe a lot of others feel about the way things are at the moment. I would add that I still go to the odd 'upfront' Northern 'nighter because there are a few deejays who still try very hard to programme good, underplayed soul music on that scene. The dogma, rhetoric and one-upmanship will probably always be a part of that perhaps, but I would hate to think that I was throwing the baby out with the bath water and missing out on great music I hadn't heard before by turning my back on the scene completely.

[Spacehopper]

well theres always 2 sides to a story and there are lots of good points on this thread ...but things have changed ,back in the day most people relyed on the dj for unknown or unreleased tunes,not today...with the internet most punters can go on either ebay or soul websites and hear tunes the djs havnt heard !! ...dont even need cds !!

[Steve Plumb]

I would add that I still go to the odd 'upfront' Northern 'nighter because there are a few deejays who still try very hard to programme good, underplayed soul music on that scene. The dogma, rhetoric and one-upmanship will probably always be a part of that perhaps, but I would hate to think that I was throwing the baby out with the bath water and missing out on great music I hadn't heard before by turning my back on the scene completely.

Still reading Sean's novel but i agree with the above too!

Would think that the 'upfront' top niter bods would still be forced to cut unreleased stuff they receive from whatever source, be it labels, artists, managers (eg The Rotations record being played by Dave Thorley, Mick H etc) onto acetates or carvers BUT nowt wrong with that - more power to them!

They'll all also be digging and searching for the next big thing on original vinyl too, that's why they're the top bods!

What i think folks don't want to see (unless i've read it all wrong) is these DJ's playing carvers and bootlegs of top rarities and difficult to obtain actual released vinyl?

Cheers

Steve

[Sean Hampsey]

What i think folks don't want to see (unless i've read it all wrong) is these DJ's playing carvers and bootlegs of top rarities and difficult to obtain actual released vinyl?

Cheers

Steve

Agree 100% Steve.

Just no need for it!

But let's not prohibit the playing of legitimate CD material in the process, as per your examples earlier (The Steve Plumb Tip List).

Sean

[Maark]

well theres always 2 sides to a story and there are lots of good points on this thread ...but things have changed ,back in the day most people relyed on the dj for unknown or unreleased tunes,not today...with the internet most punters can go on either ebay or soul websites and hear tunes the djs havnt heard !! ...dont even need cds !!

The more I read this thread, the more I hate the word 'punter"..........

But your right, who needs DJ's to dictate the tunes......

I scour the internet, blag cd's from mates, and scrounge mp3's from the lads I know with the sounds. All I can hope when i go out is that a dj with similar taste to mine will play the tunes I like so I can have a dance. Tune wise, I'm educating myself.......

Edited September 25, 2008 by Maark

[Sean Hampsey]

A great post, Sean, and sums up what I and and maybe a lot of others feel about the way things are at the moment. I would add that I still go to the odd 'upfront' Northern 'nighter because there are a few deejays who still try very hard to programme good, underplayed soul music on that scene. The dogma, rhetoric and one-upmanship will probably always be a part of that perhaps, but I would hate to think that I was throwing the baby out with the bath water and missing out on great music I hadn't heard before by turning my back on the scene completely.

Great expression 'throwing the baby out with the bath water' Gareth and sums up my feelings exactly.

Thank you.

Sean

[Guest Goldwax]

Would it be fair to assume that most people on here would be hearing more new (and by 'new' I mean unknown to them) material from CD releases than from stuff played from OV at clubs and all-nighters these days?

[Steve Plumb]

Hi Gareth,

I most certainly do agree that a venue that promotes VO "Vinyl Only" in this day and age seems to me to be extremely backward thinking... and the main reason is that the advent of the CD has afforded us far more previously unreleased material than we ever thought possible.

Prior to the CD 'previously unreleased' material becoming available was almost unheard of (people tend to cite Betty Boo as an example - and then run out of ideas ). This technology has the advantage of being relatively inexpensive to produce - in fairly low quantities - and because of this it has yielded scores of 'new' (new/old) tracks and helped to make them available for the DJ / Soul Fan to own, play and promote.

I couldn't imagine the likes of the awesome Bettye Swann "I Want Sunday Back Again" would have gained a posthumous issue, becoming available to us all, were it not for the CD.

How sad would that have been?

Must admit, this is an interesting subject and one that I've given a lot of thought to recently, thanks to Steve starting the thread. Not sure if anyone else has reached the same conclusion as me - or if there's anyone even remotely on my wavelength for that matter but here's my (further) two penneth.

As a Soul record collector, I fully understand the attraction (or is it an obsession?) with rare, original and obscure vinyl. I've been addicted for the past 40 years - and still can't shake it loose - but despite this, I'm still bothered by 'Original Vinyl Only' as a principal when it comes to the actual 'promotion' of Soul Music, particularly 'new' Soul Music and the role of the DJ in the UK today.

But in answer to your question, I think that there's a lot that's quite perverse about the Northern scene and the 'non-use' of such a superb media is one of them.

The biggest challenge with the dogma is that it prohibits the programming of New releases.

Look back at our history; we always played new and recent releases. We played them in the 60's, 70's and 80's... but something happened along the way to change all that. The fact is, new material hardly ever emerges on vinyl these days - so then how does a DJ get the chance to play anything contemporary that might work on the 'Northern' dancefloor - without accepting the new technology on which it appears?

Back in the 70's and early 80's, I could go out and buy a brand new Soul 45 release, on a Friday afternoon (for less than a quid) and at the Nighters and gigs I worked, help to make it a biggie... over that same weekend!

Likewise, I could get my hands on a new or recent 12" or LP - or dig into the collection - and pull out a handful of unplayed (or underplayed) album tracks and do the same with those i.e. fill the floor and introduce the crowd to something fresh and new - every single week!

Nowadays there seems to be little or no opportunity to do anything remotely like that and I can only summise its because, simultaneously with the Music Industry moving away from vinyl, the UK Soul Scene seemed to have become even more retro (60's biased) in music and playlist policy and ever more blindly loyal to the 'Vinyl' format - this on a scene that was pioneered by 'Mods' (Modernists) - and it's my belief that this thinking is strangling the opportunity to play anything that's actually fresh, recent or in any way innovative!

Early 80's, at Clifton Hall, Cleethorpes and elsewhere, brand new material was always programmed heavily along with newly discovered old stuff, classics and revivals - all in the one room and to the same crowd. Nobody thought that they were being particularly 'open-minded' its just the way it had always been. For the DJ it was about pleasing the floor whilst pushing the envelope and introducing the dancers to something new (a new artist, a new album, a new sound!). I may be wrong, but there seems to be nowhere on the scene that this happens nowadays and (IMO) it's hugely detrimental to the promotion of Soul Music in the UK... and to the real progression of the scene in general.

Sure, we're different to other Music scenes in many ways - we hunt for our music and track down the artists that nobody else would ever champion, we dedicate time, money and resources to looking for that elusive gem, but the argument that 'we're different' is now actually working against us and in many ways holds us back from enjoying and discovering even more. There's seems to me to be a few 'special' criteria on what makes a tune 'work' and become accepted on the Northern dancefloor and though there is a real mystique attached to scarcity or the 'unknown' it never was solely about 'rarity' to my mind. It was much more about the magic created by the Music itself - regardless of when it was made or who it was made by.

I fear that while ever we take the view that 'Only Vinyl' is acceptable, it's inevitable that a great deal of incredible Music will be lost.

Sean

Bob on again Poser man

Think what you are trying to say is that the OVO description needs changing to OVERTURE

Original

Vinyl

Except

Records

Totally

Unreleased

Rightfully

Eligible

OVERTURE is a musical word of course plus there was a track played at Wigan Casino called OVERTURE...............................................so look for the venue's with the OVERTURE Kitemark! Roger can you do us a logo?

Steve G you need to amend your list mate

..................................coat got, gone

Cheers

Steve

ps For anyone who doesn't know me.............just for the avoidance of doubt, this is me trying to be funny

[Spacehopper]

The more I read this thread, the more I hate the word 'punter"..........

But your right, who needs DJ's to dictate the tunes......

I scour the internet, blag cd's from mates, and scrounge mp3's from the lads I know with the sounds. All I can hope when i go out is that a dj with similar taste to mine will play the tunes I like so I can have a dance. Tune wise, I'm educating myself.......

sorry ...soulies !

cant even remember last time i bought a cd !....while i still run up to the dex and ask djs titles( although these are often forgotten by the time i get home )...i 'discover' a lot of new to me tunes by soundfiles either on ebay or dealers websites...

[Guest KEN-SOUL]

I'll give you a tenner for the lot, I can't say fairer than that!

it sounded like pete was blagging those records in a hurry! did he get away?

as for o.v. well, i was thinking of attending an event quite soon and i'll not be too bothered what format my 60ts oldies come in. however, if they start playing original 70s-80s stuff, then i'm offski!