O.v.o And C.r.&.p Venues

[Guest]

That's just bollocks!!!! If DJ Warwick Hunt had any principals, he wouldn't have a boot in his box. So the above scenario would never happen.....also, surely one of the other DJ's would have a copy of the requested record? Too much dumbing down going on...cheapening something magical......I.M.H.O. of course....

Phil.

Phil,

You're clearly getting a bit selective in your choice of venue's..

I can think of a few places it would and have heard it happen before.

Jayne.x.

[stomper45]

I would Sean. THAT sounds like a progressive venue with the correct philosophy for this day and age!

Truth be told, I like a bit of everything as some of the best pieces of 'MUSIC' I've heard in the last 5 years have been via several different formats OV, LP, CD or MP3 - I'm not particularly aware of the format when I first hear something out. If what comes out of the speakers slays me then I'm not even that bothered about the format to be honest. It's the music bit I like mostly.

And can you imagine never being allowed to hear this....

The Originals "Suspicion"

https://www.zshare.net/audio/19098538a565d8f5/

or even this

Freda Payne "Memories And Souvenirs"

https://www.zshare.net/audio/19098713fea3cf8e/

Doesn't bear thinking about for me. How much great music could effectively be censored simply because it's never actually been on vinyl through no fault of it's own?

Ian D

Didnt think OVO nights stop non released being played,

At an OVO night the stardust 45 of the originals can be played cant it?

A carver of the Freda Payne as it aint on 45, if it gets good dancefloor reaction people might chase the cd

[Pete Eccles]

I'm a hypocrit on these matters I suppose. I totally agree with the above yet run an ovo venue, although I admit, I dont stand by the door and vigourously check all vinyl brought in by guest Dj's BUT Neil wouldn't book a DJ who doesn't have the tunes to play and it's well known that when Neil, Dolly or I buy vinyl it's been ovo and all our residents play ovo.

You'd never get an equal view on here because the kind of people who attend or run the venue's that are badly termed CRaP would not be interested in a thread like this in the first place and many of them dont even bother with the internet!.

Good points earlier in thread too from Soulsorts.

Jayne.x.

Jayne i have played at your venue a time or two, and always played ovo as i do wherever i am invited to play, which i don't believe makes me a DJ, but the point i am making is i don't care what anyone else plays, or any other venue,

And to hint that people that run or attend cr&p venues don't bother with the internet is astonishing,

Pete

[Quinvy]

I find myself asking the question, if you think it's fine and dandy for people to DJ using boots, reissues etc. "It's not important, lifes too short etc." Why do you all feel the need to add. "But I always play ovo myself of course."? Hidden agenda's?

Lot's of things aren't that important, or don't really matter, when you look at them against the terrible things that happen on a world wide scale. You can make anything seem stupid and trivial. If you suddenly become ill, then suddenly everything else in your life becomes secondry. BUT, there is a thing called quality of life. We used to have standards, and respect for those standards. This used to be Great Britain, because we used to do things properly.....my God, we are a laughing stock now.....do gooders, PC, and the don't give a damn society, big f***ing brother for goodness sake......

Well, I'm a grumpy old man, and I have my standards and principals....and luckily there are many more that feel the same way.....

Dumb down if you want to, but leave me out of it...

Phil.

[Steve G]

Or this even:

Punter: 'Excuse me Mister DJ, would you perhaps have (insert random tune name here) that you could play for me and my friends, it's one of our favourites and we'd love to hear it. I realise that there's only one known copy in the world and that's in Japan, but I was wondering if you could play it off the CD which is legitimate and supplies royalties to the artist and in fact, has earnt him far more in royalties than the one-off copy in Japan ever did. It would really add to the enjoyment of our night, for which we've paid seven pounds entrance fee'?

Never had a request like that in my life Ian. ...what sort of clubs are you DJing at? Mastermind Soul night?

It's usually "Can you play Doc Peabody?" or "Are you going to be playing 60s' tonight Steve?" or "That last DJ was awful can you ramp the floor up a bit?"

[Sean Hampsey]

I find myself asking the question, if you think it's fine and dandy for people to DJ using boots, reissues etc. "It's not important, lifes too short etc." Why do you all feel the need to add. "But I always play ovo myself of course."? Hidden agenda's?

Lot's of things aren't that important, or don't really matter, when you look at them against the terrible things that happen on a world wide scale. You can make anything seem stupid and trivial. If you suddenly become ill, then suddenly everything else in your life becomes secondry. BUT, there is a thing called quality of life. We used to have standards, and respect for those standards. This used to be Great Britain, because we used to do things properly.....my God, we are a laughing stock now.....do gooders, PC, and the don't give a damn society, big f***ing brother for goodness sake......

Well, I'm a grumpy old man, and I have my standards and principals....and luckily there are many more that feel the same way.....

Dumb down if you want to, but leave me out of it...

Phil.

Definately agree with you that on a 'world scale' the Northern Soul Scene isn't really that important. Also agree that we 'used to do things properly' and that fings aint what they used to be in some areas of life! But I don't really see how a DJ playing a legitimate re-issue is in any way a recent 'dumbing down' on the scene. The practice has gone on for the past 40 years and (until recently) nobody ever tarred re-issues with the same brush as Pirate / Bootleg copies. There's simply no comparison.

First time we heard the Showstoppers "Ain't Nothing But A Houseparty"... did we rush to the decks to see if it was on Partytime, Showtime, Beacon, Yellow / Red & White / Green?

Nah, we just danced our rocks off!

To be honest, I think the real 'dumbing down' is often in the standard of what's played rather than in the colour of the label, Phil.

Sean

[Steve G]

To be honest, I think the real 'dumbing down' is often in the standard of what's played Phil.

Sean

That's certainly happening too.

[Sean Hampsey]

That's certainly happening too.

Sad, but true mate.

Where are you on the Showstoppers example?

Would you say that any of those are not acceptable... or that they are tarred with the same brush as Boots?

[Steve G]

a legitimate re-issue

A thorny subject indeed Sean. As an aside have heard that some legitimate reissues aren't legitimate at all - despite saying they are.

We know Kent and Grapevine 2000 were legitimate, but there's some really murky stuff out there.......maybe I should start a new thread Legitimate Res v Fake Reissues

Edited September 22, 2008 by Steve G

[Sean Hampsey]

A thorny subject indeed Sean. As an aside have heard that some legitimate reissues aren't legitimate at all - despite saying they are.

We know Kent and Grapevine 2000 were legitimate, but there's some really murky stuff out there.......maybe I should start a new thread Legitimate Res v Fake Reissues

OK then mate, distant and murky waters aside, do you think its OK for some upcoming young DJ, for example to play a Kent or Grapevine 2000 issue of the Showstoppers - and would it be as bad as playing a Boot?

[Guest rachel]

"It's not important, lifes too short etc."

It does make me laugh when people say that - as if we didn't all know (unless there are a few truly delusional exceptions out there) that the original vinyl debate is not as important as war, famine, life and death... but on the small scale of the soul scene(s), it is "important" to people, as however many topics testify!

[Steve G]

OK then mate, distant and murky waters aside, do you think its OK for some upcoming young DJ, for example to play a Kent or Grapevine 2000 issue of the Showstoppers - and would it be as bad as playing a Boot?

Boots are always unacceptable as far as I am concerned Sean. There is NO excuse for playing Boots in my opinion, except laziness. I don't care whether the DJ is 14 or 54.

[Sean Hampsey]

Boots are always unacceptable as far as I am concerned Sean. There is NO excuse for playing Boots in my opinion, except laziness. I don't care whether the DJ is 14 or 54.

Concur 100% Steve.

But do you think its OK for some upcoming young (or old) DJ to play a Kent or Grapevine 2000 issue of the Showstoppers - and would it be as bad as playing a Boot?

[Chalky]

Concur 100% Steve.

But do you think its OK for some upcoming young (or old) DJ to play a Kent or Grapevine 2000 issue of the Showstoppers - and would it be as bad as playing a Boot?

You could probably pick up a showtime or heritage copy for the price of a grapevine copy. JM has an orange Beacon copy for £6 on his site

[Sean Hampsey]

You could probably pick up a showtime or heritage copy for the price of a grapevine copy. JM has an orange Beacon copy for £6 on his site

But Biffo got the Grapevine 2000 copy for his Birthday.

Why should he need to pay £6 another copy?

The copy he's already got is legitimate - isn't it?

It's not a Bootleg... is it?

[Sean Hampsey]

Chalky and Steve, I love you both dearly...

...but this infantile notion that some people have that a Re-Issue is verboten for DJ purposes and somehow allied with Bootleg material is truly laughable!

The reason OVO came about was to beat the bootleggers - not to discourage legitimate labels from licensing largely unobtainable material.

DJ's should 'promote' the music, shouldn't they?

If a record becomes available is it not our duty to promote it - perhaps even more vigorously than one might with an original?

I'm beginning to think that the plot is being lost.

Sean

[Guest Goldwax]

Boots are always unacceptable as far as I am concerned Sean. There is NO excuse for playing Boots in my opinion, except laziness. I don't care whether the DJ is 14 or 54.

I'm from a small village in rural Kent. If it wasn't for the boots played by 15 year olds at the local village hall there is a good chance I wouldn't have been dancing my arse off and supporting those playing OVO and the various events I have for the past 23 years. My point being, I could not agree with you 100% when you say 'NO excuse'. I would imagine there are a few on here whose soul origins owe a lot to the availability of non original material?

[Ian Dewhirst]

Never had a request like that in my life Ian. ...what sort of clubs are you DJing at? Mastermind Soul night?

It's usually "Can you play Doc Peabody?" or "Are you going to be playing 60s' tonight Steve?" or "That last DJ was awful can you ramp the floor up a bit?"

I had it for years with the bloody Si Hightower Test Pressing!

Can't play it to anyone ever again. What a bastard. This OVO thing's a real pisser...........

Ian D

[Guest]

Jayne i have played at your venue a time or two, and always played ovo as i do wherever i am invited to play, which i don't believe makes me a DJ, but the point i am making is i don't care what anyone else plays, or any other venue,

And to hint that people that run or attend cr&p venues don't bother with the internet is astonishing,

Pete

hint?, I'm not hinting I'm convinced!. I've stood around many venues chatting to people and mentioned soul websites and many turn round to me and say " Oh I dont bother with such a site or I dont go on the internet" a few that stand out in my mind now are St Bernadettes, Grasshoppers, Heywood (Might be OVO now but certainly wasn't with previous promotors btw!). I'm not suggesting that everyone who goes to these venues' doesn't go on the net but many dont and certainly not for northern soul related stuff. Many people who attend venues may love the music and love a night out but not to the same extent as whose who dedicate large amounts of time to soul websites (dont just mean this one either) This is badly put though because I'm rushing.

As far as people that run such venue's, have a think about it. I've named a couple above, you dont see those promotor's using the net to promote their nights (Heywood aside & Harry sends an e-shot out but doesn't generally promote on many soul sites. I dont often see threads in event guides for monarco either and there are many others)

As I promote my nights on various websites, it's in my interest to promote soul websites when I go out and ask people what sites they go on etc. Honestly, that's still the feedback I get. There are people who want to socialise, hear the music and dance at a weekend but not necesarily sit on the internet reading about it all week too.

Jayne.x

Edited September 22, 2008 by Miss BurySoul

[Pete Eccles]

I find myself asking the question, if you think it's fine and dandy for people to DJ using boots, reissues etc. "It's not important, lifes too short etc." Why do you all feel the need to add. "But I always play ovo myself of course."? Hidden agenda's?

Lot's of things aren't that important, or don't really matter, when you look at them against the terrible things that happen on a world wide scale. You can make anything seem stupid and trivial. If you suddenly become ill, then suddenly everything else in your life becomes secondry. BUT, there is a thing called quality of life. We used to have standards, and respect for those standards. This used to be Great Britain, because we used to do things properly.....my God, we are a laughing stock now.....do gooders, PC, and the don't give a damn society, big f***ing brother for goodness sake......

Well, I'm a grumpy old man, and I have my standards and principals....and luckily there are many more that feel the same way.....

Dumb down if you want to, but leave me out of it...

Phil.

Hello Phil,

I am assuming your opening line is reffering to my comments,

When i say lifes too short, or it's not important i am not comparing it to terminal illnesses or world atrocities or the like, i am merely stating that my life is too short to be getting stressed over something that's always been there, always will be there, and all the screams of discontent about it are not gonna get rid of it, i further added what i like to do which is play ovo, no hidden agendas whatsoever,

Give it another 6 months (maybe less) and there will be another multiple page thread on here covering much the same topic, and on it goes for eternity, with ZERO changing,

So IMHO i reckon (for me personally) it's better to enjoy what i enjoy, not get too hung up about stuff i can't change,what's the point? and let everyone else enjoy what they enjoy,

All just IMHO

[Guest]

I find myself asking the question, if you think it's fine and dandy for people to DJ using boots, reissues etc. "It's not important, lifes too short etc." Why do you all feel the need to add. "But I always play ovo myself of course."? Hidden agenda's?

As a promotor, We always agreed It's essential to have an OVO policy. As a 'punter' I wouldn't care so much. I did say I'm a hypocrite!!/

As a customer, I'm far more pissed off when many DJ's can't or wont play my fav tracks because they dont have it on the right label. One example came to me last night,

Pat Lewis - no one to love. One of my fav tracks and many DJ's have said over the year's "Sorry, it's a great track, I have got one one on that connousiour (sp) re-issue label but it's not an original so I can't play it" Far more annoying than knowing someone's playing a re-issue.

Jayne.x.

Edited September 22, 2008 by Miss BurySoul

[Guest livelikeasailor]

Muddy Waters original?

Or is that a pair of Boots I can see?

[Simon M]

As a promotor, We always agreed It's essential to have an OVO policy. As a 'punter' I wouldn't care so much. I did say I'm a hypocrite!!/

As a customer, I'm far more pissed off when many DJ's can't or wont play my fav tracks because they dont have it on the right label. One example came to me last night,

Pat Lewis - no one to love. One of my fav tracks and many DJ's have said over the year's "Sorry, it's a great track, I have got one one on that connousiour (sp) re-issue label but it's not an original so I can't play it" Far more annoying than knowing someone's playing a re-issue.

Jayne.x.

Yeah but not as annoying as requesting records you know the DJ has on OVO , and they still dont play em. Hey Steve G ?

[Reg]

hint?, I'm not hinting I'm convinced!. I've stood around many venues chatting to people and mentioned soul websites and many turn round to me and say " Oh I dont bother with such a site or I dont go on the internet" a few that stand out in my mind now are St Bernadettes, Grasshoppers, Heywood (Might be OVO now but certainly wasn't with previous promotors btw!). I'm not suggesting that everyone who goes to these venues' doesn't go on the net but many dont and certainly not for northern soul related stuff. Many people who attend venues may love the music and love a night out but not to the same extent as whose who dedicate large amounts of time to soul websites (dont just mean this one either) This is badly put though because I'm rushing.

As far as people that run such venue's, have a think about it. I've named a couple above, you dont see those promotor's using the net to promote their nights (Heywood aside & Harry sends an e-shot out but doesn't generally promote on many soul sites. I dont often see threads in event guides for monarco either and there are many others)

As I promote my nights on various websites, it's in my interest to promote soul websites when I go out and ask people what sites they go on etc. Honestly, that's still the feedback I get. There are people who want to socialise, hear the music and dance at a weekend but not necesarily sit on the internet reading about it all week too.

Jayne.x

Jayne's right. The Guild hall in Stockport don't advertise their nights on the web for an example. They advertise in the local press and put flyers in various outlets but Ian certainly doesn't come on here to promote it. And they definitely don't play OVO

[Guest]

Jayne's right. The Guild hall in Stockport don't advertise their nights on the web for an example. They advertise in the local press and put flyers in various outlets but Ian certainly doesn't come on here to promote it. And they definitely don't play OVO

Hiya Reg,

I didn't mention them because I know John Kane plays OVO and not sure about the others but I'm fairly sure it's not one of Ian Obeng's main priorities for any of the Night Owl venue's he and Janette run in south manchester.

Jayne.x.

[Reg]

Hiya Reg,

I didn't mention them because I know John Kane plays OVO and not sure about the others but I'm fairly sure it's not one of Ian Obeng's main priorities for any of the Night Owl venue's he and Janette run in south manchester.

Jayne.x.

Some of the djs used to play CDs but I'm not sure whether that's still the case. (I haven't been there for a while as they sell cheap wine and I drink too much because it's only a short stagger home so I've self barred myself ).... But it's beside the point as customers who go there aren't bothered either way I'm sure..it's not that kind of venue.

Edited September 22, 2008 by Reg

[Guest]

Some of the djs used to play CDs but I'm not sure whether that's still the case. (I haven't been there for a while as they sell cheap wine and I drink too much because it's only a short stagger home so I've self barred myself ).... But it's beside the point as customers who go there aren't bothered either way I'm sure..it's not that kind of venue.

Deffo.

Hadn't noticed the cheap wine! :-)

Jayne.x

[Modernsoulsucks]

Im not sure exactly what "dumbing down" means in the context of Phil's reply. Im guessing he means it's a departure from the original ethos of playing new OVO material. However if you ask any of the leading lights or Ian D from back in the day they will tell you that not only did they not play boots or re-issues but dropped the OVO once it became available in any large quantity. OVO was not the be-all and end-all for those guys in that it was a choice between that and something else. It was just the way it was.

Nowadays that's changed and records that are available as boots,re-issues and on CD are still being played on the original release. Is that not "dumbing down" too from that original position? If some of us are gonna get snooty about non-originals and look down on others then shouldn't the OVO dj's be subject to those same original criteria.

Well of course not. And if the way in which OVO has played it's part in the scene has changed it's not too much of a leap to accept that boots/re-issues are not solely for home consumption as they would have been back then.

ROD

[Guest gordon russell]

I find myself asking the question, if you think it's fine and dandy for people to DJ using boots, reissues etc. "It's not important, lifes too short etc." Why do you all feel the need to add. "But I always play ovo myself of course."? Hidden agenda's?

Lot's of things aren't that important, or don't really matter, when you look at them against the terrible things that happen on a world wide scale. You can make anything seem stupid and trivial. If you suddenly become ill, then suddenly everything else in your life becomes secondry. BUT, there is a thing called quality of life. We used to have standards, and respect for those standards. This used to be Great Britain, because we used to do things properly.....my God, we are a laughing stock now.....do gooders, PC, and the don't give a damn society, big f***ing brother for goodness sake......

Well, I'm a grumpy old man, and I have my standards and principals....and luckily there are many more that feel the same way.....

Dumb down if you want to, but leave me out of it...

Phil.

well said phil.....standards,principals,honesty and integrity things hard to find on this scene. It's there in bucketfuls at some venues and with some dj's

[Guest andrew bin]

Post and following edited by site as per forum rules.

[Steve G]

I'm from a small village in rural Kent. If it wasn't for the boots played by 15 year olds at the local village hall there is a good chance I wouldn't have been dancing my arse off and supporting those playing OVO and the various events I have for the past 23 years. My point being, I could not agree with you 100% when you say 'NO excuse'. I would imagine there are a few on here whose soul origins owe a lot to the availability of non original material?

Certainly a lot of people got into soul via the scooterist scene and they have always had a relaxed attitude to bootlegs. But I am from Kent too and whilst we very briefly flirted with bootlegs when I was still at school , they were also called "imports" back then, we soon worked it all out. West Kent has a fine tradition of OV.

[Steve G]

I had it for years with the bloody Si Hightower Test Pressing!

Can't play it to anyone ever again. What a bastard. This OVO thing's a real pisser...........

Ian D

I have the OV of that. Besides it's been legitmately reissued on 45 I thought? Or does everyone else now also have the test pressing

[Steve G]

Yeah but not as annoying as requesting records you know the DJ has on OVO , and they still dont play em. Hey Steve G ?

Not King Moses again Simon..... I am sorry I couldn't fit it in, and will play it next time I see you.

[Steve G]

Chalky and Steve, I love you both dearly...

...but this infantile notion that some people have that a Re-Issue is verboten for DJ purposes and somehow allied with Bootleg material is truly laughable!

Sean

I haven't said that have I Sean?

................................

You know this public don't care thing is quite annoying. It may be different in other parts of the country, but down here we have guest DJs at the gigs I attend and we don't just expect them to play the same old same old. We invite them to our clubs to hear what they've got to play. We don't always like what they play, but I'd rather that than having robots turn up and play Frank WIlson, Billy Woods and Billy Butler to us. Spoken as a paying "punter".

[Marc Forrest]

Can`t be bothered to read all 18 pages now but will only add that the HIP CITY SOUL CLUB of course is o.v.o. as are most (95%) of the German Soulnights and Weekenders (well at least all are that I had the pleasure to deejay at/for so far). As are all Spanish, Norwegian and Swedish venues I have visited so far.

Loads of DJ`s around playing boots and stuff though....but not that the "scene" - buddies really do care about them at all anyway.

Marc

Edited September 22, 2008 by Marc Forrest

[Simon M]

Not King Moses again Simon..... I am sorry I couldn't fit it in, and will play it next time I see you.

No.. and has someone already called you a Twonk on this thread Steve?

[Marc Forrest]

The reason OVO came about was to beat the bootleggers - not to discourage legitimate labels from licensing largely unobtainable material.

DJ's should 'promote' the music, shouldn't they?

If a record becomes available is it not our duty to promote it - perhaps even more vigorously than one might with an original?

Sean

When a record becomes available (via a licensed re-issue) there`s no need to promote it any further as obviously already has gained by then its following. Otherwise it wouldn`t have been licensed to be reissued. So it should be dropped really from playlists and make space for new and far more enjoyable stuff IMO.

Marc

[Jez Jones]

Im not sure exactly what "dumbing down" means in the context of Phil's reply. Im guessing he means it's a departure from the original ethos of playing new OVO material. However if you ask any of the leading lights or Ian D from back in the day they will tell you that not only did they not play boots or re-issues but dropped the OVO once it became available in any large quantity. OVO was not the be-all and end-all for those guys in that it was a choice between that and something else. It was just the way it was.

Nowadays that's changed and records that are available as boots,re-issues and on CD are still being played on the original release. Is that not "dumbing down" too from that original position? If some of us are gonna get snooty about non-originals and look down on others then shouldn't the OVO dj's be subject to those same original criteria.

Well of course not. And if the way in which OVO has played it's part in the scene has changed it's not too much of a leap to accept that boots/re-issues are not solely for home consumption as they would have been back then.

ROD

Rod

If I'm reading you correct a lot of that rings true in my experience. I can remember folks(myself included) collecting maybe 100 or 200 records but they were always rotating in the quest to get hold of the 'next big thing'. Folks swapped/sold or wahtever ovo to finance the latest big hitter when they heard it. Prices for said original ovo would plumett accordingly when a large quantity came out. Eddie Parker 'love you baby' eg and there were more---------but having said all that things are different nowadays and re-releases ,boots emis whatever were available quite readily and seemed to be everywhere . I think it was more 'cut throat' in those days. You had to keep your wits about yer and ear to the ground or you could be lumbered with a once rare/expensive original vinyl and the following week it worth half what you paid cos the 'market' got flooded with 'em. But difference was every week quality was getting discovered and I mean every week!!! So you would win some and lose some and by the end of the month that rare ovo you lost money on was a distant memory cos you could get the next big thing and if there was 2 you could sell one on

Now the venue thing about ovo's or other?. I can remember(bet others can to) start of the 70's and a local village hall soul do dj would happily play pressings etc to bring the music to his 'flock'. You could be there one night and philip Mitchell and Jimmy Conwell etc would come blaring out of the speakers and you just knew he had been to the local record shop that week to get a 'jayboy' fix . However no fooker rushed up to him and said why yer playing this. It was almost as if 'those that knew' couldn't give a fook cos they knew where to get and hear the 'real' stuff . On reflection it was quite elitist-----so nothings changed

Interesting point though, he would never be caught playing an 'emidisc'. Why--cos I personally found the only places to be offered these were at the 'upfront' venues of the time Torch. Junction, Cats etc. Strange innit. Bet yer wouldn't see one in sales boxes at todays upfront venues

[Steve G]

No.. and has someone already called you a Twonk on this thread Steve?

Yes because he thought I was being disrespectful to his friend which I wasn't.

What's your excuse?

[Simon M]

Yes because he thought I was being disrespectful to his friend which I wasn't.

What's your excuse?

I haven't actually called you one yet

[Sean Hampsey]

Chalky and Steve, I love you both dearly...

...but this infantile notion that some people have that a Re-Issue is verboten for DJ purposes and somehow allied with Bootleg material is truly laughable!

Sean

I haven't said that have I Sean?

................................

You know this public don't care thing is quite annoying. It may be different in other parts of the country, but down here we have guest DJs at the gigs I attend and we don't just expect them to play the same old same old. We invite them to our clubs to hear what they've got to play. We don't always like what they play, but I'd rather that than having robots turn up and play Frank WIlson, Billy Woods and Billy Butler to us. Spoken as a paying "punter".

Hi Steve,

No, you didn't say that playing re-issues is verboten, but others did and its possible you may have missed the point of my questioning. A previous poster was lumping Re-Issues and Bootlegs together. Now that can't be right can it? (because Re-Issues are Legal whereas Bootlegs are not) and as it's your thread (the thread starter) I was asking for clarification on how you saw it, because its easy to see how one might think that they were one and the same if banded together in this way... and I'm getting a bit weary being a lone voice on this!

I couldn't agree more that the last thing we need is 'the same old same old'... and I happen to think that my own choices when DeeJaying have always been anything but - however, this is a very different question.

Sean

[Modernsoulsucks]

Rod

If I'm reading you correct a lot of that rings true in my experience. I can remember folks(myself included) collecting maybe 100 or 200 records but they were always rotating in the quest to get hold of the 'next big thing'. Folks swapped/sold or wahtever ovo to finance the latest big hitter when they heard it. Prices for said original ovo would plumett accordingly when a large quantity came out. Eddie Parker 'love you baby' eg and there were more---------but having said all that things are different nowadays and re-releases ,boots emis whatever were available quite readily and seemed to be everywhere . I think it was more 'cut throat' in those days. You had to keep your wits about yer and ear to the ground or you could be lumbered with a once rare/expensive original vinyl and the following week it worth half what you paid cos the 'market' got flooded with 'em. But difference was every week quality was getting discovered and I mean every week!!! So you would win some and lose some and by the end of the month that rare ovo you lost money on was a distant memory cos you could get the next big thing and if there was 2 you could sell one on

Now the venue thing about ovo's or other?. I can remember(bet others can to) start of the 70's and a local village hall soul do dj would happily play pressings etc to bring the music to his 'flock'. You could be there one night and philip Mitchell and Jimmy Conwell etc would come blaring out of the speakers and you just knew he had been to the local record shop that week to get a 'jayboy' fix . However no fooker rushed up to him and said why yer playing this. It was almost as if 'those that knew' couldn't give a fook cos they knew where to get and hear the 'real' stuff . On reflection it was quite elitist-----so nothings changed

Interesting point though, he would never be caught playing an 'emidisc'. Why--cos I personally found the only places to be offered these were at the 'upfront' venues of the time Torch. Junction, Cats etc. Strange innit. Bet yer wouldn't see one in sales boxes at todays upfront venues

I think you've read me right there, Jez. In fact you've amplified it for me in that you're spot on with the observation that we didn't care that the local soul dj was playing the odd boot and re-issue of previously big tunes but would you agree that we would have been bothered if the bigger dj's at the Torch or Junction had continued to play those same tunes on original after they'd become available to the rest of us.

Now judging from certain comments the situation is reversed in that the local dj's are getting hammered for playing boots and yet it's alright for big name dj's to continue playing originals long after what would have been their sell-by-date back then.

Im not saying either of those scenarios are the "true path" but maybe pointing out that there is no one orthodoxy immutable from the beginning of the scene.

ROD

[Sean Hampsey]

When a record becomes available (via a licensed re-issue) there`s no need to promote it any further as obviously already has gained by then its following. Otherwise it wouldn`t have been licensed to be reissued. So it should be dropped really from playlists and make space for new and far more enjoyable stuff IMO.

Marc

OK Marc, think I get your drift, however, if DJ A (lister) has been playing his Rare OVO for a while at XYZ Nighter - and the record gets reissued, due to demand, what's wrong if DJ B (Biffo) gets the newly re released legitimate 45 and plays it down at his local - particularly if DJ A has now dropped it from his playlist, as you suggest?

Hasn't this happened for decades?

Isn't this how the majority get to hear stuff in the first place?

Sean

[Steve G]

Hi Steve,

No, you didn't say that playing re-issues is verboten, but others did and its possible you may have missed the point of my questioning. A previous poster was lumping Re-Issues and Bootlegs together. Now that can't be right can it? (because Re-Issues are Legal whereas Bootlegs are not) and as it's your thread (the thread starter) I was asking for clarification on how you saw it, because its easy to see how one might think that they were one and the same if banded together in this way... and I'm getting a bit weary being a lone voice on this!

We've already done the previously unissued stuff, so I guess your question is aimed at stuff that has been out in the US but is now reissued in the UK....say like Willie Tee, Carbon Copies etc. in which case I don't have a problem with it per se as I get all those records myself. But you have to have a balance, and I would prefer to hear DJs play such things off of US releases. I mean you wouldn't want a DJ turning up with a box full of these reissues and building their set round it - except possibly as a novelty- it's not really what the northern scene is about in my opinion.

... and I happen to think that my own choices when DeeJaying have always been anything but - however, this is a very different question.

Sean

Have never said your sets are samey - hence the line between comments - far from it. Nor are mine despite what old goaty beard Simon would have us believe with all his jokey one liners

[Chalky]

We've already done the previously unissued stuff, so I guess your question is aimed at stuff that has been out in the US but is now reissued in the UK....say like Willie Tee, Carbon Copies etc. in which case I don't have a problem with it per se as I get all those records myself. But you have to have a balance, and I would prefer to hear DJs play such things off of US releases. I mean you wouldn't want a DJ turning up with a box full of these reissues and building their set round it - except possibly as a novelty- it's not really what the northern scene is about in my opinion.

I agree, If some DJ was waiting to do his set with original copies of say Percy Stone, Eddie Billups etc and someone on before playing the Grapevine re-issues he got for his birthday I've a feeling the DJ waiting wouldn't be too chuffed. As said I don't have a problem with the unissued material but to me Djing with recent re-issues of rarer original issues I don't particularly agree with.

[Sean Hampsey]

We've already done the previously unissued stuff, so I guess your question is aimed at stuff that has been out in the US but is now reissued in the UK....say like Willie Tee, Carbon Copies etc. in which case I don't have a problem with it per se as I get all those records myself. But you have to have a balance, and I would prefer to hear DJs play such things off of US releases. I mean you wouldn't want a DJ turning up with a box full of these reissues and building their set round it - except possibly as a novelty- it's not really what the northern scene is about in my opinion.

Have never said your sets are samey - hence the line between comments - far from it. Nor are mine despite what old goaty beard Simon would have us believe with all his jokey one liners

Thanks Steve, really well thought out reply mate, but I was thinking more about the comments in relation to the thread we both posted on yesterday regarding Mary Wells etc. and clarification that these things (or in fact all legit UK issues) are entirely acceptable and should not be tarred with the same brush as bootlegs. Yes?

There's a lot of nonsense when it comes to the playing of British, don't you agree?

(Best leave Beards out of this one, as I'm with Simon on that ).

[Modernsoulsucks]

OK Marc, think I get your drift, however, if DJ A (lister) has been playing his Rare OVO for a while at XYZ Nighter - and the record gets reissued, due to demand, what's wrong if DJ B (Biffo) gets the newly re released legitimate 45 and plays it down at his local - particularly if DJ A has now dropped it from his playlist, as you suggest?

Hasn't this happened for decades?

Isn't this how the majority get to hear stuff in the first place?

Sean

I know you're only qualifying this question for the purposes of the argument but I think you and I would agree that Biffo can play his 45 wherever he wants and with no regard to who or who may not have it on OVO.

The artist etc got paid. End of.

[Wiganer1]

I agree, If some DJ was waiting to do his set with original copies of say Percy Stone, Eddie Billups etc and someone on before playing the Grapevine re-issues he got for his birthday I've a feeling the DJ waiting wouldn't be too chuffed. As said I don't have a problem with the unissued material but to me Djing with recent re-issues of rarer original issues I don't particularly agree with.

========

well he can play something else cant he?? and show the previoius dj the original ..may make him think a little

[Steve G]

Thanks Steve, really well thought out reply mate, but I was thinking more about the comments in relation to the thread we both posted on yesterday regarding Mary Wells etc. and clarification that these things (or in fact all legit UK issues) are entirely acceptable and should not be tarred with the same brush as bootlegs. Yes?

There's a lot of nonsense when it comes to the playing of British, don't you agree?

(Best leave Beards out of this one, as I'm with Simon on that ).

I regularly play original UK releases when it's right to do so - obviously not at upfront venues but oldies nights - Blue Skies in particular sees me with some tasty British stuff - Action, Stateside, Liberty, HMV etc. I really enjoy playing that stuff too, authentic particuilarly in a pub back room type venue - as those UK things are where the scene started before the imports came in from the end of the 60s

[Sean Hampsey]

I agree, If some DJ was waiting to do his set with original copies of say Percy Stone, Eddie Billups etc and someone on before playing the Grapevine re-issues he got for his birthday I've a feeling the DJ waiting wouldn't be too chuffed. As said I don't have a problem with the unissued material but to me Djing with recent re-issues of rarer original issues I don't particularly agree with.

Hi Chalky,

Biffo at the local is hardly likely to be warming up for a guy with Percy & Eddie in his box, but if that were the case then the second guy might need to dig a little deeper.

Most people can only get 20 records off in a set (10 if he uses 12" ). So what happened to the trusty 200 box? And Hey... he's got Percy & Eddie in there... he 'must' have loads more goodies too?

Besides... as Marc said above... surely these particular tracks should be dropped from the other DJ's set now they've been issued.

No?

Sean