O.v.o And C.r.&.p Venues

[Sutty]

as i recall the first batch of vise 45's came via Ian Clarke, he sold it to Keb, and he scratched the address out with a pin on all his copies to stop anyone finding out his source. So he told me anyway! it looked like the one in the scan (albeit without the pin scratching done on the label), so I guess more copies have turned up - which leads to the age-old question - why has he price gone up if there are more on the market now lol

Edited September 28, 2008 by Sutty

[Steve G]

I saw you play that Brett , and your copy is without an address !!

You on "Soul Police" duty Simon?

[Steve Plumb]

Must admit Steve, I don't have all the answers.

It's a tricky one. But a journey of a thousand miles... single step and all that!

Just feel that the scene seems to have gone from new tunes breaking every weekend to 3 or 4 every 5-10 years, and that can't possibly be healthy.... but hey, I guess that's the choice of the paying public.

Frankly, I think you're right. It's gonna be nighon impossible to attract the younger generation in great numbers - but I'm more interested in retaining and entertaining the generation we've already got!

I'm with Simon M and his advice... 'If you've got fresh tunes hammer 'em...' and I'm sure, like many of us, you have a repository of real Soul records that would 'go'... if the criteria on the 'Northern Scene' was allowed, once more, to be much more than 'rarity' first.

Of more importance to me is a home for the decent Soul Music that's not getting aired - disqualified because it's on the wrong or unacceptable 'format' or excluded and vilified because it's not (yet) 'rare'.

Maybe the 'Northern Scene' (Progressive or Otherwise) is not the place, anymore, for fresh material?

Maybe the 'Third Way' (as Plumby calls it) practiced over the years at such haunts as Pitches in Rotherham, the Munsters in Brum and more recently the Orwell in Wigan (not a complete list) is the rightful place for fresher Soul music (or the chance to hear something different)?

Most of the 'Crossover' type venues seem to have no problem embracing the more contemporary or less formulaic, as long as it 'sounds' right. Perhaps that audience is more receptive to the Music itself for its own sake and where fresh stuff will always gain a better reception?

But, I honestly felt that after too many years of fragmentation, there were some signs of convergence.

After all, we've seen Soul Sam getting behind Joi Cardwell "Let It Go" (Soulful House... on the 'Northern' scene?).

We've seen Pete Smith making recommendations on here for Anthoney Wright's new offering (not a tune that's been fully accepted by the 'Modern' crowd... but you get my drift?).

We've witnessed hardcore 'Northern' folk getting in a lather over Amy Winehouse and Duffy... probably because it was something 'new' to listen to.

So I'm thinking, maybe were not as polarized as some might like to think?

Or maybe we are

I guess DJ's tend to fall under the following categories - and that affects how they approach the choice of music in their play lists.

Soul Lover - DJ - Collector

Soul Lover - Collector - DJ

Collector - DJ - Soul Lover

Collector - Soul Lover - DJ

There are other permutations, but these tend to be the ones I normally encounter. I'd certainly rather go to a gig where the lineup includes the former categories, because I'm more likely to hear high quality music delivered in an entertaining manner, than be exposed to either the tedious 'same old same old' or have DJ's try to bedazzle or impress me with the collectors items on show.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll agree that we've moved a long way from the initial thinking.

Maybe 'original format' / "OF" is perfectly acceptable to the majority of people (OVO reminds me too much of 'Whites Only' and Pointy Hats!) because it makes it clear that we are open minded to newly available material but against the encouragement of illegal pressings and bootlegging - but as Rod said, in some cases that genie is out of the bottle and for the Village Hall 'do' or the 'bit of Northern' at a wedding there's little any of us should be too concerned about.

From the various messages and replies I've seen I'm pretty sure that most people take the common sense view.

Ady has conceded that he'd probably use CD's... if other DJ's would... and Rich has even got a 'Legit Re-Issue' thread running (I'm unaware of any death threats) so that's got to be progress for Music over elitism or censorship, no matter how well intended.

Cheers

Sean

Your best novel so far imho Sean

Take a bow matey!

Cheers

Steve

[Roger Williams]

I believe this was taken recently when Steve was DJ'ing:

[Steve G]

I believe this was taken recently when Steve was DJ'ing:

Very good Roger. Made me smile.

[Simon M]

Hey is that chap doing the Morcombe and Wise dance also is that Rog's mate Searling there ?

[Guest Andy Kempster]

brilliant

spot the difference

[Guest soul99 easylay]

Tell you what, try this for an event & venue!

With a venue and DJ line up like this, it'll put the whole o.v.o debate into perspective!

.....and for those of you that have been to a 99 Soul Club event, I needn't say anymore - satisfaction always guaranteed!

https://99soulclub.wordpress.com

Soul Splash Saturday 1st November - Scarborough Spa

Tickets are on sale from 1st February for this event - please call ticket hotline 01723 515556 and quote Soul Splash, Credit and Debit Cards accepted.

Ticket cost inc postage is £10 - tickets are non-refundable and admission for this event is by advanced ticket only.

The DJ line up is now confirmed for this 2 room spectacular as Ginger Taylor, Bob Hinsley, Roger Banks, Soul Sam, Yocky, James Sim, Fraser Dunn, Steve Plumb, Arthur Fenn, Terry Wright, Mike Charlton, Jock Mitchell and your regular 99 Soul Club Hosts Mick Burnett and Ade Stelling.

[Guest soul99 easylay]

Tell you what, try this for an event & venue!

With a venue and DJ line up like this, it'll put the whole o.v.o debate into perspective!

.....and for those of you that have been to a 99 Soul Club event, I needn't say anymore - satisfaction always guaranteed!

https://99soulclub.wordpress.com

Soul Splash Saturday 1st November - Scarborough Spa

Tickets are on sale from 1st February for this event - please call ticket hotline 01723 515556 and quote Soul Splash, Credit and Debit Cards accepted.

Ticket cost inc postage is £10 - tickets are non-refundable and admission for this event is by advanced ticket only.

The DJ line up is now confirmed for this 2 room spectacular as Ginger Taylor, Bob Hinsley, Roger Banks, Soul Sam, Yocky, James Sim, Fraser Dunn, Steve Plumb, Arthur Fenn, Terry Wright, Mike Charlton, Jock Mitchell and your regular 99 Soul Club Hosts Mick Burnett and Ade Stelling.

[Guest DeeJay]

So so far we have declared OVO venues:

Letchworth Irish centre

Bradford morley carr wmc

Good times west mids

Attic Club

go Go Children Bristol

the Junction Middleton jn

Basics Dundee

And allnighters I can pretty certainly say based on the DJ line up

Lifeline

100 Club

Burnley

.....

You can also include everything done by Emerald City Soul Club (Seattle) and everything played in L.A. By Hotshot Sounds

[Jellybean]

So so far we have declared OVO venues:

Letchworth Irish centre

Bradford morley carr wmc

Good times west mids

Attic Club

go Go Children Bristol

the Junction Middleton jn

Basics Dundee

And allnighters I can pretty certainly say based on the DJ line up

Lifeline

100 Club

Burnley

.....

Add Brookfields club (Stables) and Fist full of soul @ Broad lane W.M.C.

JB xxxKTFxxx

[Dave Morris]

Add The Loft Bar at Bournemouth Uni to that list as well.OVO is our only policy the rest is up to the dj's to make the dancefloor work.

[KevH]

Where did this thread come from.!!! 2008? !!

Anyway.must hold my hands up for the Attic.With a heavy heart i admit i did play Al Gardner - "Sweet Baby" twice.

On Gooda Mooga..

Felt i should come clean with this,as i haven't slept since.....

[boba]

Where did this thread come from.!!! 2008? !!

this thread started a revolution. thank god someone bumped it to remind everyone of it.

[Citizen P]

this thread started a revolution. thank god someone bumped it to remind everyone of it.

Yeah, a complete revolution, full circle.

Those that care play OVO.

Those that don't give a F*ck, don't.

Like Mr. Edge said-"When I can pay in Monoploy money, that's when I'll attend a venue playing Fakes !!"

Tony

[Geeselad]

I for one am sick to death hearing boot owners and players trying to justify using them over and over, Surely we all know the principles behind this, DONT PRETEND YOU OWN RECORDS YOU DONT!!!!! Isnt that what this is all about, carvers from acetate's or tape only track- not a problem, unless you just want to mudy the waters, you wouldnt even raise the point, imho.

[Steve L]

Where did this thread come from.!!! 2008? !!

Anyway.must hold my hands up for the Attic.With a heavy heart i admit i did play Al Gardner - "Sweet Baby" twice.

On Gooda Mooga..

Felt i should come clean with this,as i haven't slept since.....

you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself, I'm never speaking to you again

[Steve L]

A timely resurrection of this thread with the new one about a venue closing because of people moaning about an OVO policy being introduced

[Macysmall]

On 15/09/2008 at 11:13, Tricky said:

OVO - Creative Soul Functions which at this moment in time is Silks in Wellingborough.

 

I would just like to concur with Mr G.THIS WHOLE SCENE IS BUILT AROUND ORIGINALS so don,t go telling me all of a sudden ITS OK TO PLAY ANYTHING!!!!!

 

Another observation as a collector.I did not buy my vinyl to make a profit on,its a billy bonus.Dj,s get paid and in theory that money goes towards new tunes.If a club has decent equipment the condition of the records should not change too much!

What are you talking about? The scene was never about having the tune on original format it was just about having the tune full stop. Tons of Master tapes were brought back here and put onto emedisc by the DJs of the time. Lots of tunes never ever got to a test pressing stage. Snobs and Soul police need to learn the real history of the scene not the dreamland made up idea of the one they think they know.

[Geeselad]

On 12/10/2022 at 23:56, Macysmall said:

What are you talking about? The scene was never about having the tune on original format it was just about having the tune full stop. Tons of Master tapes were brought back here and put onto emedisc by the DJs of the time. Lots of tunes never ever got to a test pressing stage. Snobs and Soul police need to learn the real history of the scene not the dreamland made up idea of the one they think they know.

Perhaps you'd like to expand on this history, I'm curious. As to what your saying, what percentage of these unrealised tracks from the halcyon days of the scene were first played off Emidiscs? I never realised how influential they were, I've obviously been sold a lie by my soul brothers; on the value of collecting originals and how exploring record collecting through listening to records on obscure labels trying to find something fresh is intrinsic to the scene. I could have saved a fortune and just bought a pile of emi's or carver's! 🫣

[Chalky]

Quite a bit of what Soussan sent over were emidiscs, Frank Wilson for one.  Others at Stafford and in the 80s were played from cuts with the only known (at the time) copy in a collectors hands, they needed playing.

Now there is no need for any of that and hasn't been for years, enough originals rare and not so rare, expensive and not so out there to satisfy everyone.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Chalky

[Macysmall]

On 19/10/2022 at 19:02, Geeselad said:

Perhaps you'd like to expand on this history, I'm curious. As to what your saying, what percentage of these unrealised tracks from the halcyon days of the scene were first played off Emidiscs? I never realised how influential they were, I've obviously been sold a lie by my soul brothers; on the value of collecting originals and how exploring record collecting through listening to records on obscure labels trying to find something fresh is intrinsic to the scene. I could have saved a fortune and just bought a pile of emi's or carver's! 🫣

To many to mention Geeselad but if you can answer me this question then you may have a point otherwise everything else you think is true is just folklaw that record collectors brainwash people with just so they can keep the value of a records at a high premium. OK the question is " Why did big name DJ's at the time sell original label records at the same price as the boots were going for once the record got booted? Or even throw a record into the crowed once it got booted?" If the scene was all about owning the original record rather than having the tune why would DJs do that? Russ did it himself on more than one occasion!

[Macysmall]

On 19/10/2022 at 19:15, Chalky said:

Quite a bit of what Soussan sent over were emidiscs, Frank Wilson for one.  Others at Stafford and in the 80s were played from cuts with the only known (at the time) copy in a collectors hands, they needed playing.

Now there is no need for any of that and hasn't been for years, enough originals rare and not so rare, expensive and not so out there to satisfy everyone.

Hi Chalky, why should I not get a carver of a £1.000+ record? I dont have that sort of money to burn on records.

[Zoomsoulblue]

Why did big name DJ's at the time sell original label records at the same price as the boots were going for once the record got booted? - At the time booting a record did de value the original back in the mid 70ts most records went for around a £5 or less, then rare records went for £20 - £25 at the time around 1976 - I was earning £44 a week.

tune why would DJs do that? Russ did it himself on more than one occasion! - Remember that All DJs we’re off there heads on speed some more than others - maybe they got caught up in the moment- I went to the Casino 75 - 81 I never saw it or heard about records been thrown onto the dance floor or handed out - not saying it never happened My 2 cent
 

[Chalky]

13 hours ago, Macysmall said:

Hi Chalky, why should I not get a carver of a £1.000+ record? I dont have that sort of money to burn on records.

why not look for something else cheaper? plenty of quality records that are affordable.  Plenty of Djs have those 1000 quid records so why listen to someone playing a boot/carver, call it what you want

The history as you call it, records were cut because there was no original (studio tapes) or just one known original with a collector, much of what Soussan sent over, Jackie Day Naughty Boy for an 80s example.  That is hardly the case these days with plenty having those originals.  By and large it has always been about rare original vinyl, Djs having records exclusive to them.

You want to Dj with a carver, do you accept monopoly money for your fee?

Edited October 21, 2022 by Chalky

[Kenb]

11 hours ago, Macysmall said:

To many to mention Geeselad but if you can answer me this question then you may have a point otherwise everything else you think is true is just folklaw that record collectors brainwash people with just so they can keep the value of a records at a high premium. OK the question is " Why did big name DJ's at the time sell original label records at the same price as the boots were going for once the record got booted? Or even throw a record into the crowed once it got booted?" If the scene was all about owning the original record rather than having the tune why would DJs do that? Russ did it himself on more than one occasion!

ignoring the debate for now...what i don't get is, if your profile is correct you would have been 4 yrs old in 1973?

So is it the case that (if you are female) it's a lady's prergogative not to tell her age - or is your profile a bootleg/carver?

So is your experience 1st hand or 'passed down'

either way, i'm sort with Chalky on this one.

 

[Geeselad]

11 hours ago, Chalky said:

why not look for something else cheaper? plenty of quality records that are affordable.  Plenty of Djs have those 1000 quid records so why listen to someone playing a boot/carver, call it what you want

The history as you call it, records were cut because there was no original (studio tapes) or just one known original with a collector, much of what Soussan sent over, Jackie Day Naughty Boy for an 80s example.  That is hardly the case these days with plenty having those originals.  By and large it has always been about rare original vinyl, Djs having records exclusive to them.

You want to Dj with a carver, do you accept monopoly money for your fee?

The scene has become obsessed with rarity to the extent where its stifling anything fresh or progressive IMHO. If you look at the foundations of the soul scene in this country how many of those records played were financially unavailable? Certainly good DJs had their exclusives but what proportion of the records from the torch and wheel were out of the reach of the average punter if they really wanted them? 10%, maybe less. Compare that to say Ted's set last weekend or any DJ working nationally. Martin Ellis would never get gigs now, or Evo for that matter, if he was starting out, and yes I know Dave's got an amazing collection, but he's always championed cheapies, Spyder turner for example. Bring out the ten quid tunes and let's get back to exciting DJ sets. 

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2022 by Geeselad

[Chalky]

14 hours ago, Geeselad said:

The scene has become obsessed with rarity to the extent where its stifling anything fresh or progressive IMHO. If you look at the foundations of the soul scene in this country how many of those records played were financially unavailable? Certainly good DJs had their exclusives but what proportion of the records from the torch and wheel were out of the reach of the average punter if they really wanted them? 10%, maybe less. Compare that to say Ted's set last weekend or any DJ working nationally. Martin Ellis would never get gigs now, or Evo for that matter, if he was starting out, and yes I know Dave's got an amazing collection, but he's always championed cheapies, Spyder turner for example. Bring out the ten quid tunes and let's get back to exciting DJ sets. 

 

 

 

But the scene has always been obsessed by rarity and price, Leon Hayward, James Fountain, both caused a stir in their day.  Records that were newly discovered went to the boys at the top, the average Joe had to wait until quantity were tracked down, the Dj often dropped them once everyone had access.

Most Djs reputations were built on exclusivity, or rather a venues reputation, Levine and Curtis at The Mecca, Searling at Wigan etc.   Later years its more about the Dj than the venue as there was no central venue, Butch, Sam etc.  All built their reputations on sets that were pretty much exclusive to them and we followed those Djs, we went to venues to hear those records because we couldn't hear them at home.  I don't know if the records back in the early

What is happening today isn't so much about rarity though.  How many of those records do we see week in week out go for silly prices that are genuinely rare,  not many.  Most are around in collections or Dj boxes in significant quantities.

Now a Dj builds his or hr reputation on how much they spend, not for what they play, they are booked by promoters because they are talked about for what they spend and you are right that is stifling progression and imagination.  You only have to look at the number of superb previously unreleased material that is released and how many of the big boys will play them, not many.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Chalky

[Keamus]

21 hours ago, Geeselad said:

The scene has become obsessed with rarity to the extent where its stifling anything fresh or progressive IMHO. If you look at the foundations of the soul scene in this country how many of those records played were financially unavailable? Certainly good DJs had their exclusives but what proportion of the records from the torch and wheel were out of the reach of the average punter if they really wanted them? 10%, maybe less. Compare that to say Ted's set last weekend or any DJ working nationally. Martin Ellis would never get gigs now, or Evo for that matter, if he was starting out, and yes I know Dave's got an amazing collection, but he's always championed cheapies, Spyder turner for example. Bring out the ten quid tunes and let's get back to exciting DJ sets. 

 

 

 

New to me. Very nice!

 

[Geeselad]

4 hours ago, Keamus said:

New to me. Very nice!

 

£5 from king bee a few weeks back! 

[Keamus]

Always some great bargains in Les’s boxes!

[Andybellwood]

On 22/10/2022 at 15:56, Keamus said:

New to me. Very nice!

 

New to me also /ditto 

£10 lol offered if anyone had one for sale . Seriously tho if any one has a spare please pm me . 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Andybellwood

[Wiggyflat]

Myself (Kevin Johansen) & James Hill play from Original vinyl and advertise this fact at The Rivoli in South London....3 events all 400 plus sell outs (for a soul night). I know that they have other Northern Soul nights on at the venue with deejays that do not play original vinyl (we play Vinyl !) that are half empty and are struggling ...maybe the customers are picky about it or they might like the fact that we have made the effort.

.

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Wiggyflat

[Soulmark]

Not many venues play original vinyl we’re I live if any most venues advertise Motown and northern soul night so I tend to keep away