Steve G Posted September 24, 2008 Author Posted September 24, 2008 From the website "Don't Forget The Motor City"....... There's A Ghost In My House (Brian Holland-Lamont Dozier-Edward Holland Jr-R. Dean Taylor) publ. Jobete R. Dean Taylor; rec 26-Oct-66 ; produced by Brian Holland, Lamont Dozier 30-Mar-67; 45 (M): V.I.P. 25042 A Oct-68; LP (M): Tamla Motown TML11077 Motown Memories Vol. 2 [ UK ] 09-Jul-01; CD (S): Spectrum 544 515 2 Essential Collection [ UK ] 25-May-07; CD (M): Hip O Select B0008993-02 The Complete Motown Singles Vol. 7 1967 Released on a 1968 UK Motown LP I wonder why did it take until 1970s to get "discovered" then
Steve G Posted September 24, 2008 Author Posted September 24, 2008 OK chaps/chapettes got a question for you all...................I think this has been done before on SS before as a separate thread but is very relevant to this thread imho- How would a jock playing 'The Belles - Let me do it - Soul Fox' be viewed in the OVO debate? Would it qualify as say, playing a Grapevine 2000 unreleased track or carving an unreleased CD track would be? Think there was some discussion of whether it was them and I think Kent reissued it on CD by someone else? (sorry forgot the details!) 'If' Mr Soul Fox 'legally' released this via the guy who owned the Mirwood masters would the playing of this brilliant 60's Northern dancer be allowed on the pink Soul Fox label Thoughts please? Cheers Steve Wasn't Soul Fox a Soussan label.....?
Steve G Posted September 24, 2008 Author Posted September 24, 2008 LOL, I hate to shoot you down Steve, but I've just realised that if there's any gaps in your knowledge then they're from this era which, as you quite rightly point out, was when you were a nipper. So since this is probably one of the few times I'll be able to contradict your good self by saying that in actual fact, R. Dean Taylor WAS a household name in the U.K. by the early 70's as he'd already had two Top 20 UK hits by 1971:- Ian D Thanks, yes I do have these blind spots...I have the books at home but do most of this stuff not from home. Another blind spot was an uptempo dance record called "Find em fool em forget em" played on Radio 1 when I was in the 3rd / 4th year at school.
Sean Hampsey Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 (edited) Thanks, yes I do have these blind spots...I have the books at home but do most of this stuff not from home. Another blind spot was an uptempo dance record called "Find em fool em forget em" played on Radio 1 when I was in the 3rd / 4th year at school. Either Dobie Gray or George Jackson, Steve... (Most probably Dobie's) ...but I guess you figured that out for yourself since leaving school Edited September 24, 2008 by Sean Hampsey
Ian Dewhirst Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Released on a 1968 UK Motown LP I wonder why did it take until 1970s to get "discovered" then LOL! I don't think so. I think it would have been found before 1972 in that case. I don't know that album and I suspect no one else does either. Would love to see a scan of the track listing as this is news to me. Anyone seen Tamla Motown TML11077 Motown Memories Vol. 2 [ UK ]? It exists in the listings for sure but there's no track listing on my info..... Ian D
Steve G Posted September 24, 2008 Author Posted September 24, 2008 Either Dobie Gray or George Jackson, Steve... (Most probably Dobie's) ...but I guess you figured that out for yourself since leaving school Yes it was Dobie Gray, but it took me a long time to work out.
Chalky Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 LOL! I don't think so. I think it would have been found before 1972 in that case. I don't know that album and I suspect no one else does either. Would love to see a scan of the track listing as this is news to me. Anyone seen Tamla Motown TML11077 Motown Memories Vol. 2 [ UK ]? It exists in the listings for sure but there's no track listing on my info..... Ian D one for sale here Ian https://www.vinylnet.co.uk/details.asp/id/1...s-Volume-2.html
Ian Dewhirst Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 OK chaps/chapettes got a question for you all...................I think this has been done before on SS before as a separate thread but is very relevant to this thread imho- How would a jock playing 'The Belles - Let me do it - Soul Fox' be viewed in the OVO debate? Would it qualify as say, playing a Grapevine 2000 unreleased track or carving an unreleased CD track would be? Think there was some discussion of whether it was them and I think Kent reissued it on CD by someone else? (sorry forgot the details!) 'If' Mr Soul Fox 'legally' released this via the guy who owned the Mirwood masters would the playing of this brilliant 60's Northern dancer be allowed on the pink Soul Fox label Thoughts please? Cheers Steve Heaven forbid. The mind boggles LOL! Very interesting question Steve. Does the wily Soul Fox qualify on first release stuff? I don't know what else he did for the first time but I suspect there quite a few from the Mirwood vaults. "He's Alright With Me" - The Mirwood Strings would be another wouldn't it? Ian D
Steve G Posted September 24, 2008 Author Posted September 24, 2008 LOL! I don't think so. I think it would have been found before 1972 in that case. I don't know that album and I suspect no one else does either. Would love to see a scan of the track listing as this is news to me. Anyone seen Tamla Motown TML11077 Motown Memories Vol. 2 [ UK ]? It exists in the listings for sure but there's no track listing on my info..... Ian D If you google it Ian there seem to be copies for sale
Sean Hampsey Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Yes it was Dobie Gray, but it took me a long time to work out. Great tune. Due a revival I reckon!
Ian Dewhirst Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 one for sale here Ian https://www.vinylnet.co.uk/details.asp/id/1...s-Volume-2.html Still no track listing though. I'm sure the album exists but I'd be stunned if TAGIMH was on it and we all missed it. SOMEONE would have caught that track surely......? Ian D
Chalky Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Still no track listing though. I'm sure the album exists but I'd be stunned if TAGIMH was on it and we all missed it. SOMEONE would have caught that track surely......? Ian D lastly the tracklisting for you..... 11077. Motown Memories. Vol.2 ============================= 01 - Barret Strong - Money (That's What I Want) 02 - Marvelettes - Beechwood 4-5789 03 - Shorty Long - Devil With The Blue Dress On 04 - Kim Weston - It Should Have Been Me 05 - Eddie Holland - Take A Chance On Me 06 - Barbara McNair - You're Gonna Love My Baby 07 - R Dean Taylor - There's A Ghost In My House 08 - Carolyn Crawford - My Smile Is Just A Frown (Turned Upside Down) 09 - Stevie Wonder - Fingertips 10 - Mary Wells - When I'm Gone 11 - Martha & Vandellas - Darling I Hum Our Song 12 - Miracles - I'll Try Something New 13 - Supremes - Standing At The Crossroads Of Love 14 - Choker Campbell - Come See About Me 15 - Brenda Holloway - I'll Always Love You 16 - Monitors - Greetings (This Is Uncle Sam)
Sean Hampsey Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Still no track listing though. I'm sure the album exists but I'd be stunned if TAGIMH was on it and we all missed it. SOMEONE would have caught that track surely......? Ian D 100% TAGIMH is on Motown Memories Vol ll
Ian Dewhirst Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 scan of back and front Wow. I'm stunned. How about that. Never seen one of them in my life. It's not one of those Dutch-only Tamla Motown pressings or something is it? I would have thought that someone would have had that album between 1968-72 'cos it's packed with Northern and plenty of rare tracks. It certainly slipped through my net that's for sure. But EVERYONE'S net........? It's not a wind-up is it? Ian D
Sean Hampsey Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 100% TAGIMH is on Motown Memories Vol ll As Chalky just said above! Must get a faster PC & Connection!
Ian Dewhirst Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 100% TAGIMH is on Motown Memories Vol ll Wow. How did we miss it then? There's me thinking that we were actually quite good at Motown............ Ian D
Chalky Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Wow. I'm stunned. How about that. Never seen one of them in my life. It's not one of those Dutch-only Tamla Motown pressings or something is it? I would have thought that someone would have had that album between 1968-72 'cos it's packed with Northern and plenty of rare tracks. It certainly slipped through my net that's for sure. But EVERYONE'S net........? It's not a wind-up is it? Ian D Now would I wind you up Ian No it's definitely not a wind up and definitely UK.
TOAD Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Wow. I'm stunned. How about that. Never seen one of them in my life. It's not one of those Dutch-only Tamla Motown pressings or something is it? I would have thought that someone would have had that album between 1968-72 'cos it's packed with Northern and plenty of rare tracks. It certainly slipped through my net that's for sure. But EVERYONE'S net........? It's not a wind-up is it? Ian D MR D IVE GOT THIS UK LP
Ian Dewhirst Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Now would I wind you up Ian No it's definitely not a wind up and definitely UK. Wow. What can I say guys? Apart from the fact that Motown LP's were a lot less collectible back then and maybe didn't get the same kind of scrutiny that they would these days. But that's no excuse really. We were a bunch of twats who wouldn't know our R. Dean Taylor 1968 compilation album tracks from our elbows! Ian D
Jumpinjoan Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Aren't you lot supposed to have closed this thread at a 1,000 posts and started a new one?
Reg Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Aren't you lot supposed to have closed this thread at a 1,000 posts and started a new one? Pleeaaasseee (but without the new one )...only kidding guys!! Honest!
Steve Plumb Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 (edited) Heaven forbid. The mind boggles LOL! Very interesting question Steve. Does the wily Soul Fox qualify on first release stuff? I don't know what else he did for the first time but I suspect there quite a few from the Mirwood vaults. "He's Alright With Me" - The Mirwood Strings would be another wouldn't it? Ian D Hi Ian yes, what i was getting at was that 'if' The Belles was 'legal' could it be played out?......and if so what OVO DJ would play a pink label Soul Fox 45 in his set I think Ady/Kent got to the bottom of the legalities of this.........anyone find the original link? Either way it's a fooking brilliant Northern dancer imho and one of the top bods could make it monstrous I reckon, cos at the time I don't think it went as big as it could have done (probably cos of the Soul Fox connection?) t'other side from Jackie Lee's a belter too! Cheers Steve Edited September 24, 2008 by Steve Plumb
scunnyjack Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 LOL! I don't think so. I think it would have been found before 1972 in that case. I don't know that album and I suspect no one else does either. Would love to see a scan of the track listing as this is news to me. Anyone seen Tamla Motown TML11077 Motown Memories Vol. 2 [ UK ]? It exists in the listings for sure but there's no track listing on my info..... Ian D I purchased this and Motown Memories vol 1 for about a quid each brand new from a shop in Scunthorpe about 1970. I was always playing Ghost In My House and You're Gonna Love My Baby at our local youth club, but not on dance nights owing to more common Motown stuff being played. Still got these LP's along with Breakout-Mitch Ryder,Rare Stamps-Barnes and Mancha and The Fabulous Impressions also purchased from there along with Uptight where the opening track Love A Go Go was very popular at that time and not on a single as far as I know but I am sure I could be corrected! Steve
Eddie Hubbard Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Wow. How did we miss it then? There's me thinking that we were actually quite good at Motown............ Ian D When I bought my copy of this album off Soul Sam a few years back , I was thinking exactly the same thing , why didn't anyone play " Ghost " from this album ? Best ,Eddie
Marc Forrest Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 (edited) Ah but there are different reasons for a company to reissue a 45. In some cases like say The Magic Touch, it's to satisfy demand, in others like the recent Millie Jacksons it's to make LP tracks available on 45 and in others like Luther Ingram or Danny Cobus it's to get a previously unissued track onto vinyl so DJs other than the ones who have had the exclusive acetates can play it out and popularise the music more, thereby upping demand for the recording and getting artists, writers (and us) more income. In the case of the 100 Club anniversary singles it is promotional for the forthcoming CD and a thank you and a memento for the customers who take the trouble to support our venue and label. Invariably the buzz from being on a collectible anniversary vinyl 45 improves sales in the long run on CD and sometimes reissued vinyl. yes Ady, you are right about that. I agree. marc Edited September 24, 2008 by Marc Forrest
Steve G Posted September 24, 2008 Author Posted September 24, 2008 OK Ian, something YOU have learnt today as well. Ha ha.... ..................anyway back to OV etc - anyone else got anything to say on that subject? Or are we done?
Pete S Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Don't know if anyone has said this but the version of Ghost In My House on the MFP album is totally different to the single - the single starts off with the guitar intro, the album track does not have the guitar intro and begins with the words "Theres a ghost in my house", totally different recording
Sharon Cooper Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 (edited) OK Ian, something YOU have learnt today as well. Ha ha.... ..................anyway back to OV etc - anyone else got anything to say on that subject? Or are we done? Yes I have and Iv'e not read all 54 pages so here goes. Do you mean OVO as the OVO on the LOCAL LABELS or OVO being the ones realeased by the larger companies that picked them up later? As I said haven't read all pages so if it's been said earlier then Yes we are all done. Chris Edited September 24, 2008 by bridget
Steve G Posted September 24, 2008 Author Posted September 24, 2008 Yes I have and Iv'e not read all 54 pages so here goes. Do you mean OVO as the OVO on the LOCAL LABELS or OVO being the ones realeased by the larger companies that picked them up later? Chris Both. So I'd play the Ivorys on Wand rather than Despanzo, but both are fine in my book.
Sean Hampsey Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Yes I have and Iv'e not read all 54 pages so here goes. Do you mean OVO as the OVO on the LOCAL LABELS or OVO being the ones realeased by the larger companies that picked them up later? As I said haven't read all pages so if it's been said earlier then Yes we are all done. Chris Good question. We need a definition! Does "Original Vinyl Only" mean.. 1. 'We only play records on vinyl as they originally appeared' (Ann Sexton on Impel) (David Sea on Hy-Tide) 2. 'We also play records on vinyl as they may have appeared later... but they are legit' (Ann Sexton on 77) (David Sea on T-Jaye) 3. 'We only play records on vinyl as they originally appeared... in whatever country' (Baltimore & Ohio Marching Band "Condition Red" Oz Stateside) 4. 'We only play records on vinyl... and are quite prepared to play records that have never legitimately appeared on vinyl... as long as we play them on vinyl that we've had 'done' for us' Sean
Sean Hampsey Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 5. 'We just don't like, or can't use CD's'' Sean
Steve G Posted September 24, 2008 Author Posted September 24, 2008 Good question. We need a definition! Does "Original Vinyl Only" mean.. 1. 'We only play records on vinyl as they originally appeared' (Ann Sexton on Impel) (David Sea on Hy-Tide) 2. 'We also play records on vinyl as they may have appeared later... but they are legit' (Ann Sexton on 77) (David Sea on T-Jaye) 3. 'We only play records on vinyl as they originally appeared... in whatever country' (Baltimore & Ohio Marching Band "Condition Red" Oz Stateside) 4. 'We only play records on vinyl... and are quite prepared to play records that have never legitimately appeared on vinyl... as long as we play them on vinyl that we've had 'done' for us' Sean These four all seem fair and would legitimately fall into the definition of OV. Maybe with the benefit of 22 pages hbeinsight it would be a lot simpler if we just said venues / DJS that played bootlegs, but that doesn't sound as good as CR&P
Sean Hampsey Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 These four all seem fair and would legitimately fall into the definition of OV. Maybe with the benefit of 22 pages hbeinsight it would be a lot simpler if we just said venues / DJS that played bootlegs, but that doesn't sound as good as CR&P So, how's that list coming along? Sean
Steve G Posted September 24, 2008 Author Posted September 24, 2008 So, how's that list coming along? Sean I'll update it at some point, and then unless there are any other nuggets, move onto my next thread........DJs that only play OV
Sharon Cooper Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Both. So I'd play the Ivorys on Wand rather than Despanzo, but both are fine in my book. But isn't this thread about OV, and does the copy of the Ivory's on Wand constitute a re=issue. Seems to me you can't have it both ways, it's either the original or not.
Steve G Posted September 24, 2008 Author Posted September 24, 2008 But isn't this thread about OV, and does the copy of the Ivory's on Wand constitute a re=issue. Seems to me you can't have it both ways, it's either the original or not. No I think that's just too anal to be realistic. I mean there might have been 3 weeks difference between the local release and the national release. Either is fine for me. The national releases are bona fide originals in my book.
Ian Dewhirst Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 OK Ian, something YOU have learnt today as well. Ha ha.... ..................anyway back to OV etc - anyone else got anything to say on that subject? Or are we done? Yep. It never fails to amaze me this scene. You're never too old to learn....and never too young to fall in love. I think I'm done now. Good thread! Ian D
Harrogatesoul Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Of course the wand 45 is an original. Just because it's on a local issue before being picked up for national distribution has nothing to do with originality - Its simple economics. 'Dave Despenza' didnt have the brass to distribute all over the country so hawk it to the nationals. The timelines on some would have been ver short in some cases I would have thought. Rich
Ian Dewhirst Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Don't know if anyone has said this but the version of Ghost In My House on the MFP album is totally different to the single - the single starts off with the guitar intro, the album track does not have the guitar intro and begins with the words "Theres a ghost in my house", totally different recording Well something else I never knew. There's now 2 different recordings of TAGIMH then? How weird..... Ian D
Sharon Cooper Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 (edited) Of course the wand 45 is an original. Just because it's on a local issue before being picked up for national distribution has nothing to do with originality - Its simple economics. 'Dave Despenza' didnt have the brass to distribute all over the country so hawk it to the nationals. The timelines on some would have been ver short in some cases I would have thought. Rich With respect that is what makes the whole of this thread pointless. the Wand issue is NOT the original. I wonder which one T. Brown has in his collection. Just because a company with clout picks up a tune does not make it the original. In my opinion this legitamizes the playing of re-issues as I suspect after looking at J.Manships 'Rarest of the Rare that many a treasured 'Original' is in fact a re-issue, but maybe just maybe we don't want to acknowledge that. Oh my I'm becoming an anorak. Chris Edited September 24, 2008 by bridget
Steve G Posted September 24, 2008 Author Posted September 24, 2008 With respect that is what makes the whole of this thread pointless. the Wand issue is NOT the original. I wonder which one T. Brown has in his collection. Just because a company with clout picks up a tune does not make it the original. In my opinion this legitamizes the playing of re-issues as I suspect after looking at J.Manships 'Rarest of the Rare that many a treasured 'Original' is in fact a re-issue, but maybe just maybe we don't want to acknowledge that. Oh my I'm becoming an anorak. Chris The Wand issue is however original vinyl. Might not be the first issue but it's still original vinyl. Might be easier if we called it "Authentic vinyl" and "Bootlegs"? Then we could have probably got a conclusion far quicker.
Sean Hampsey Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 I'll update it at some point, and then unless there are any other nuggets, move onto my next thread........DJs that only play OV Hah! That'll be pretty much the same list as I was thinking about doing... 'DJ's / Venues that are more interested in showing off Collectors pieces than in Music' I'll give it a miss though if you're doing it! Sean
soulAdequateNP Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 But isn't this thread about OV, and does the copy of the Ivory's on Wand constitute a re=issue. Seems to me you can't have it both ways, it's either the original or not. No I think that's just too anal to be realistic. I mean there might have been 3 weeks difference between the local release and the national release. Either is fine for me. The national releases are bona fide originals in my book. Hmm, perhaps in this case another term may be more appropriate...contemporaneous perhaps?
Guest gordon russell Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 Don't know if anyone has said this but the version of Ghost In My House on the MFP album is totally different to the single - the single starts off with the guitar intro, the album track does not have the guitar intro and begins with the words "Theres a ghost in my house", totally different recording is it just as bad pete or worse or about the same level of crapness lol
Sharon Cooper Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 The Wand issue is however original vinyl. Might not be the first issue but it's still original vinyl. Might be easier if we called it "Authentic vinyl" and "Bootlegs"? Then we could have probably got a conclusion far quicker. So from now on I'll play whatever i want and when some clever clogs comes up and asks if it's on the OV I'll respond by asking him if he has a copy of the AV, if he/she say yes I will bow to their superior collection and give my spot over to then cause THEY ARE the real originals
Steve G Posted September 24, 2008 Author Posted September 24, 2008 So from now on I'll play whatever i want and when some clever clogs comes up and asks if it's on the OV I'll respond by asking him if he has a copy of the AV, if he/she say yes I will bow to their superior collection and give my spot over to then cause THEY ARE the real originals Straight question - do you play bootlegs?
Sharon Cooper Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 (edited) Straight question - do you play bootlegs? If you want you can check Pilsley Lookback and see for yourself. Edited September 24, 2008 by bridget
Harrogatesoul Posted September 24, 2008 Posted September 24, 2008 With respect that is what makes the whole of this thread pointless. the Wand issue is NOT the original. I wonder which one T. Brown has in his collection. Just because a company with clout picks up a tune does not make it the original. In my opinion this legitamizes the playing of re-issues as I suspect after looking at J.Manships 'Rarest of the Rare that many a treasured 'Original' is in fact a re-issue, but maybe just maybe we don't want to acknowledge that. Oh my I'm becoming an anorak. Chris Calling the national copy a re-issue would imply the local copy is out of print which may or may not be the case. The important words here are local and national - And far from wanting to lambast or penalise 'Dave Despenza' for not having enough money or clout to promote and distribute his work across the united states makes the playing of both copies acceptable to the collector / dj IMO I accept there are collectors out there who may agree with you - Someone recently mentioned they would prefer the west coast dist. version as opposed to the east coast which he considered not the first press. IMVHO that is utter sh**e - Economics / Promotion etc etc play a part in a records life and success/failure. Dont forget a lot of these local 45s labels had meagre budgets to start with. Rich
Steve G Posted September 24, 2008 Author Posted September 24, 2008 If you want you can check Pilsley Lookback and see for yourself. Well you say you play OVO so not sure why you are kicking up dust on this. If you play OV do you want adding to the list?
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