O.v.o And C.r.&.p Venues

[Modernsoulsucks]

Im just wondering having looked at Steve's original question whether the list of "crap" venues really shouldn't be based more on naming and shaming those dj's who do use these carvers to copy more current/popular sounds to further their own advancement rather than concentrating on old boots and re-issues which to my mind aren't a pointer to a quick fix for the lazy DJ.

The guy doing a carver of a rarer 45 IS a bootlegger. I'd differentiate that from someone doing a cut of an unreleased track on a CD which I think is fair game in that we know it's off a CD and not available on vinyl and frankly if the owners can't be bothered putting a good track out on 45 then they are not catering to the majority of us on here. CDs are today's cassettes and I don't remenber many cassettes that were played or collectible back in the day.

Of course you could just play the track off the CD but then you're messing about on the decks, carrying CD and record boxes etc. It's really for ease of use to have the carver in with your 45s. Sam isn't the only one that the advance of technology has left behind.

ROD

Edited September 19, 2008 by modernsoulsucks

[Guest Beeks]

You cited Butch, Mick H, Andy Dyson and Cliff Steele by name - commenting on their record collections and the records they play in their DJ sets.

Never cited any of them...Jocko cited them...wish people would read posts...never commented on their record collections...apart from to praise them...never commented on their DJ sets...other than a tongue in cheek joke

Anyway...all that aside...I'm no longer getting involved in the politics on this site...had enough of bickering with people who have nothing better to do than pick people apart...it brings my usual sunny nature down...so from now on I'm sticking to posting up the odd tune in refosoul...having a laugh with the more friendlier locals and posting up my wants and sales...i'll leave the schoolkids to their own devices from now on...because to be quite frank i'm not playing anymore

Beeks

[Jaco]

not true Ian, there's 100's if not 1000's of vinyl records that are affordable, by that I mean under 50 quid with many around the £25 mark. The trouble with this scene is rarity is the be all and end all for too many, if it's expensive it's good, if it's cheap its, well not good enough.

Maybe if promoters got away from the big money DJ syndrome and booked those that use some imagination and played records that don't have to cost a fortune but do not suffer quality wise then the scene maybe a better place for it.

Spot on Chalky.

From a different perspective, consider this.

In a hypothetical situation a collector/DJ with, say, 2000 original singles of which, say, 10% have great flips, could do a 1 hour slot per week for over 80 weeks without playing the same track twice.

This assumes that the collection is made up of a wide variety of styles - stompers, beat ballads,70's etc but have been acquired to reflect that collector/DJ's personal tastes and not full of tracks to simply complete a label or copy the latest trends. Price is not entirely relevant but you can assume there is plenty of stuff at the cheaper end, and that the collection has been amassed over an extended period.

In other words a collection that is likely to gain appeal in the broadest sense.

You can play around with the numbers but what it would illustrate to me, is that a good DJ with this kind of (hypothetical) collection can keep the floor interested by being imaginative. The product is there, perhaps there needs to more self belief from those that feel they have to adopt a safe stance, including a divergance from original vinyl.

Just a thought, mind.

[Simon M]

Im just wondering having looked at Steve's original question whether the list of "crap" venues really shouldn't be based more on naming and shaming those dj's who do use these carvers to copy more current/popular sounds to further their own advancement rather than concentrating on old boots and re-issues which to my mind aren't a pointer to a quick fix for the lazy DJ.

The guy doing a carver of a rarer 45 IS a bootlegger. I'd differentiate that from someone doing a cut of an unreleased track on a CD which I think is fair game in that we know it's off a CD and not available on vinyl and frankly if the owners can't be bothered putting a good track out on 45 then they are not catering to the majority of us on here. CDs are today's cassettes and I don't remenber many cassettes that were played or collectible back in the day.

Of course you could just play the track off the CD but then you're messing about on the decks, carrying CD and record boxes etc. It's really for ease of use to have the carver in with your 45s. Sam isn't the only one that the advance of technology has left behind.

ROD

I know some , they come up to the decks and say "Ooohh Ive got a nice carver of that with color copied lables "

Edited September 19, 2008 by Simon M

[Garethx]

Im just wondering having looked at Steve's original question whether the list of "crap" venues really shouldn't be based more on naming and shaming those dj's who do use these carvers to copy more current/popular sounds to further their own advancement rather than concentrating on old boots and re-issues which to my mind aren't a pointer to a quick fix for the lazy DJ.

The guy doing a carver of a rarer 45 IS a bootlegger. I'd differentiate that from someone doing a cut of an unreleased track on a CD which I think is fair game in that we know it's off a CD and not available on vinyl and frankly if the owners can't be bothered putting a good track out on 45 then they are not catering to the majority of us on here. CDs are today's cassettes and I don't remenber many cassettes that were played or collectible back in the day.

ROD

I think this is the crux of the matter Rod. The venues playing vintage boots are largely completely separate from the up-front nighter scene where the idea of OV should matter. It is self-booted carvers of more up-to-date rarities which are reprehensible to me. To play them at venues where other deejays are striving for a degree of originality and imagination is, to me, a real pisser. It is such deejays who cause a lot of ill-will as they tend to have a defensive, negative and aggressive attitude about what they do. A lack of scruples tends to be accompanied by a lack of manners. It undermines the whole ethos of what the scene should be about, respect for everyone in the particular environment.

Edited September 19, 2008 by garethx

[Mark Bicknell]

I get the gist of your post Mark and I don't think too many people will disagree with most of the points you've made, apart from the fact that you seem to be saying that it must be OVO and nothing else.

That's a bit like sticking your head in the sand like a Dodo, which co-incidentaly is also obselete.

We're living in an age now, where there are 10's of 1000's of Music Blogs around the world and most of those blogs (especially the collectors ones) have 100's and, in some cases, 1000's of tunes on. If you go digging around these blogs, there's loads of great tunes which I've only just discovered after 40 odd years of collecting.

In the past - from 1976 in fact, I used to get on a plane, go to the States and spend weeks/months digging around record shops getting covered in rat shit and cobwebs finding great tunes.

It was possible back then when there were still plenty of record shops and dealers.

But that was then and this is now.

These days, OVO has become a rich man's pursuit. I don't know many DJ's who find their own rarities. Usually they deal with established dealers and hand over shedloads of money don't they? So this whole OVO scenario has essentially become a money game rather than a passion game.

In an age where you can dig around the record collections of the world to your heart's content from the comfort of your sofa and when so much great unreleased stuff is finally appearing on CD for the first time, it seems just nuts to me to limit yourself to one format. What's the point unless it's really fear of the unknown?

In the same way as you wouldn't consider using a wind-up gramophone in this day and age, I don't know why you would limit yourself to playing just one format among many.

As I've said a zillion times before, it's all about taste in music, so why limit your choices unless it's for egotistical reasons?

Ian D

Ian, can I be candid on this one without being rude and there is no easy way to say this but in the true sense of the grass roots way many DJ's on the rare soul scene collect and source their records is not in the main through the sound file route, internet etc. etc. you hit the nail on the head by saying what you used to do back in the day, personally I think it's a cop out to say some rarities are only for the rich kids on the block, perhaps more the case if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen? and you don't have to get into the thousand pound plus big ticket items to present a good spot, I'm all for unissued, unknowns etc. via CD and re - issue and feature and play pretty much all the authentic stuff on the show but out and about on the soul scene DJ circuit most not all DJ's use the original vinyl 45 format above all else except maybe some of the Modern boys who source tracks from newly released CD, if we were to take the down load route then would it not be fair to suggest that rare soul DJ's as we know them would become redundent as anyone can plug in a CD player or Lap Top and play tunes much the same way you can by using bootlegs, I'm not having a go Ian but the very foundation and backbone of the Rare Soul scene from it's conception to now is based in the main on rare, hard to find records, if we loose that then really whats the point?

For many of us I'm sure the whole point of what we do is the passion and desire to own the real deal, I have no objection for new material as I say and simply collect and present rare soul as exactly that be it a five pounder cheapie or a big ticket item, it has nothing to do with ego it's about having the real deal within your means, sure you can source George Pepp - 'The Feeling Is Real' for example via the net, sound file CD or bootleg but ask most collectors and DJ's which format they would sooner hold and plain and simple the answer would be on USA Coleman.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Edited September 19, 2008 by Mark Bicknell

[Dysonsoul]

Reminder - who is missing from the list please?

I can certainly have a wild guess.. of course MIDDLETON ain't on the list ,mm suprise,suprise for good reason see when you book friends of friends and favours for favours,you do my venue and i'll do yours.. you're gonna get dj's playing boots ! (in all fairness the r+b lads downstairs are a credit to the scene and play originals).

It also is advantageous if the promotor can distinguish a soul record from the suit cases he seems to always have under his arms..

call it elite call it what you want,but choice of dj is of optimum importance , certainly they have to play the real thing in the upfront subsidery of the scene..

[Guest Brett F]

Ian, can I be candid on this one without being rude and there is no easy way to say this but in the true sense of the grass roots way many DJ's on the rare soul scene collect and source their records is not in the main through the sound file route, internet etc. etc. you hit the nail on the head by saying what you used to do back in the day, personally I think it's a cop out to say some rarities are only for the rich kids on the block, perhaps more the case if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen? and you don't have to get into the thousand pound plus big ticket items to present a good spot, I'm all for unissued, unknowns etc. via CD and re - issue and feature and play pretty much all the authentic stuff on the show but out and about on the soul scene DJ circuit most not all DJ's use the original vinyl 45 format above all else except maybe some of the Modern boys who source tracks from newly released CD, if we were to take the down load route then would it not be fair to suggest that rare soul DJ's as we know them would become redundent as anyone can plug in a CD player or Lap Top and play tunes much the same way you can by using bootlegs, I'm not having a go Ian but the very foundation and backbone of the Rare Soul scene from it's conception to now is based in the main on rare, hard to find records, if we loose that then really whats the point?

For many of us I'm sure the whole point of what we do is the passion and desire to own the real deal, I have no objection for new material as I say and simply collect and present rare soul as exactly that be it a five pounder cheapie or a big ticket item, it has nothing to do with ego it's about having the real deal within your means, sure you can source George Pepp - 'The Feeling Is Real' for example via the net, sound file CD or bootleg but ask most collectors and DJ's which format they would sooner hold and plain and simple the answer would be on USA Coleman.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Good points in there Mark, for me it’s a quite simple ethos, I enjoy with a passion record collecting I did at age 15 and I do now at 44, but it has to be about the thrill of the chase, going into dingy damp record shops (as there were when I was a teenager) looking through the racks etc, and in the modern day via the WWW, whilst also still enjoying going wherever and finding some old (and rare in these days) used record stores. But it’s all about original format, the sheer thrill and pleasure about picking something up that you’ve wanted for an age is wonderful. Was 29 years ago……Still is now. I care less if it’s a big ticket item or some small little known 45’ (that through this environment, tape swapping, going to various venues, big and small, and actually talking to people you may find a track you never previously knew).

By the way I posted this up in Oct 14th 2004, feel it sums it up for me …Again.

Why is it that a vinyl record can hold so much beauty and mystique as opposed to the foul and ugly CD, I've just had an hour playing and handling vinyl LP's, the aesthetic is absolute, the sheer thrill of holding and placing this piece of history on the turntable and gently lifting the tone arm across, then gently letting it fall in the dead wax…….then the anticipation, it holds your attention that Shhhh noise …..THEN THE SOUND BREAKS THROUGH…the emotion overflows, besides the wonderful musical resonance, there is the chance to watch this superlative Black object move almost to the rhythm and tempo of the song. Yet the CD in comparison is a heinous and filthy little creature, devoid of any charisma, even when I place the hound in the tray it disappears into the dark grey abyss of the machine…almost hiding itself in shame, as if it realizes that in my household he/she is surrounded by illustrious vinyl relations whom look down in disdain at this urchin in it's god damn awful jewel case…………

In conclusion I'll quote the late great Spike Milligan, who upon being woken as a small child, in the middle of the night by his father and being asked.."Son, I Have Never Shot A Tiger"…Spike replied rubbing his eyes "Why Are You Telling Me This"….his father replied…."I Had To Tell Someone"….

Edited September 19, 2008 by Brett F

[Quinvy]

Why is it that a vinyl record can hold so much beauty and mystique as opposed to the foul and ugly CD, I've just had an hour playing and handling vinyl LP's, the aesthetic is absolute, the sheer thrill of holding and placing this piece of history on the turntable and gently lifting the tone arm across, then gently letting it fall in the dead wax.......then the anticipation, it holds your attention that Shhhh noise .....THEN THE SOUND BREAKS THROUGH...the emotion overflows, besides the wonderful musical resonance, there is the chance to watch this superlative Black object move almost to the rhythm and tempo of the song. Yet the CD in comparison is a heinous and filthy little creature, devoid of any charisma, even when I place the hound in the tray it disappears into the dark grey abyss of the machine...almost hiding itself in shame, as if it realizes that in my household he/she is surrounded by illustrious vinyl relations whom look down in disdain at this urchin in it's god damn awful jewel case............

Wonderful words Brett.....you have captured many other peoples feelings there sir....brilliant stuff....long time no see by the way, hope you are well... RESPECT.

[soulsalmon]

Why is it that a vinyl record can hold so much beauty and mystique as opposed to the foul and ugly CD, I've just had an hour playing and handling vinyl LP's, the aesthetic is absolute, the sheer thrill of holding and placing this piece of history on the turntable and gently lifting the tone arm across, then gently letting it fall in the dead wax.......then the anticipation, it holds your attention that Shhhh noise .....THEN THE SOUND BREAKS THROUGH...the emotion overflows, besides the wonderful musical resonance, there is the chance to watch this superlative Black object move almost to the rhythm and tempo of the song. Yet the CD in comparison is a heinous and filthy little creature, devoid of any charisma, even when I place the hound in the tray it disappears into the dark grey abyss of the machine...almost hiding itself in shame, as if it realizes that in my household he/she is surrounded by illustrious vinyl relations whom look down in disdain at this urchin in it's god damn awful jewel case............

Wonderful words Brett.....you have captured many other peoples feelings there sir....brilliant stuff....long time no see by the way, hope you are well... RESPECT.

BRETT,NORTHERN SOULS POET LAUREATE

[Guest Brett F]

Why is it that a vinyl record can hold so much beauty and mystique as opposed to the foul and ugly CD, I've just had an hour playing and handling vinyl LP's, the aesthetic is absolute, the sheer thrill of holding and placing this piece of history on the turntable and gently lifting the tone arm across, then gently letting it fall in the dead wax.......then the anticipation, it holds your attention that Shhhh noise .....THEN THE SOUND BREAKS THROUGH...the emotion overflows, besides the wonderful musical resonance, there is the chance to watch this superlative Black object move almost to the rhythm and tempo of the song. Yet the CD in comparison is a heinous and filthy little creature, devoid of any charisma, even when I place the hound in the tray it disappears into the dark grey abyss of the machine...almost hiding itself in shame, as if it realizes that in my household he/she is surrounded by illustrious vinyl relations whom look down in disdain at this urchin in it's god damn awful jewel case............

Wonderful words Brett.....you have captured many other peoples feelings there sir....brilliant stuff....long time no see by the way, hope you are well... RESPECT.

Hi Phil, yeah i'm fine and dandy, it has been a long time mate.

Ps, can't believe i wrote that on here around 4 years ago

[Quinvy]

Hi Phil, yeah i'm fine and dandy, it has been a long time mate.

Ps, can't believe i wrote that on here around 4 years ago

Good to see you back on here....sent you a PM.

Phil.

[Ian Dewhirst]

By the way I posted this up in Oct 14th 2004, feel it sums it up for me ...Again.

Why is it that a vinyl record can hold so much beauty and mystique as opposed to the foul and ugly CD, I've just had an hour playing and handling vinyl LP's, the aesthetic is absolute, the sheer thrill of holding and placing this piece of history on the turntable and gently lifting the tone arm across, then gently letting it fall in the dead wax.......then the anticipation, it holds your attention that Shhhh noise .....THEN THE SOUND BREAKS THROUGH...the emotion overflows, besides the wonderful musical resonance, there is the chance to watch this superlative Black object move almost to the rhythm and tempo of the song. Yet the CD in comparison is a heinous and filthy little creature, devoid of any charisma, even when I place the hound in the tray it disappears into the dark grey abyss of the machine...almost hiding itself in shame, as if it realizes that in my household he/she is surrounded by illustrious vinyl relations whom look down in disdain at this urchin in it's god damn awful jewel case............

Well, since you put it like that.............

Beautiful words Brett. I could have done with them when I was running Simply Vinyl (a vinyl reissue company of all things) in the late 90's/early 00's.

But I think you should update it by adapting to MP3 which is even worse than CD!

Ian D

[Steve G]

when Sam played at Fulbourn and Evolution i was informed this was the case.... but not a slider/button or knob changed ! is it another northern myth ?

Far from it Cambridge soul. At Soul Essence they had to tape down the controls with parcel tape to stop him "re-setting" the sound. At Skegness he comes on half way through my set and tells me the sound isn't right, twiddles the knobs and leaves with a thumbs up. A minute later the sound system owner comes up and says "What have you done with the sound, you've messed it up". Priceless. So yes Sam is king of the twiddlers. But we love him anyway.

[Steve G]

I can name many people on here who sport the corner of OVO thats just how it is, old school, keeping it real and doing the very best they can, there are hundreds of records I've never owned but would not dream of using a bootleg or carver just to play a popular or big tune it's simply not in the rule book, leave it to the DJ's with the real deal to play, dig deep, move on and develop what you do within your means and try and create your own style rather than cutting corners and cheating basically yourself.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Kind of where I am too Mark - certainly with northern soul. Though obviously I also play modern at some gigs - different rules there of course as already discussed.

[Guest gordon russell]

not true Ian, there's 100's if not 1000's of vinyl records that are affordable, by that I mean under 50 quid with many around the £25 mark. The trouble with this scene is rarity is the be all and end all for too many, if it's expensive it's good, if it's cheap its, well not good enough.

Maybe if promoters got away from the big money DJ syndrome and booked those that use some imagination and played records that don't have to cost a fortune but do not suffer quality wise then the scene maybe a better place for it.

my pal danny did a spot at burnley ....he never played a single so called big hitter......what a set!!! some known,some unknown had the floor rammed...ovo vinyl all the way.........stu cheatham,killa, to name a couple more exactly the same,blinding sets of reasonably priced quality tunes...tezza

[Guest Soultown andy]

sorry couldnt reply earlier been at work allday middletons missing steve and are your selections the new gospel then,as for jocko am fully aware were your loyaltys lie but you more or less implied any club not useing butch wasnt up to much i could find plenty to disagree with you.Wasnt aware i was mates with all the djs at middleton in fact i would say the opposite is true,but nice to see some clubs changeing there formats to try and get bodies thru the door.As for bookig dj pals f*** me you can talk it certainly is the old pals act over at the stables. Lots of talk from the usual suspcts still wont fill your favourite venues will it, because it is and always will be the travelin soulies who decide,which is great for most and a real pisser for a few,but its all about opinions and nobodys counts for anymore or any less than the next.

Edited September 19, 2008 by Soultown andy

[Steve G]

and are your selections the new gospel then,

No Andy just a list of places for people to go who still want to hear original vinyl at their northern do's. For those that don't care this thread shouldn't be an issue as they'll go where they want anyway.

[Guest Soultown andy]

No Andy just a list of places for people to go who still want to hear original vinyl at their northern do's. For those that don't care this thread shouldn't be an issue as they'll go where they want anyway.

Fair enough but we are one of em,and if anyone can name a dj that is currently djing at middleton who isnt i will remove them.

[Philly]

WTF has Dustbin Stanley got to do with the DJ's you stated?

PMSL

[CAMBRIDGE SOUL]

Far from it Cambridge soul. At Soul Essence they had to tape down the controls with parcel tape to stop him "re-setting" the sound. At Skegness he comes on half way through my set and tells me the sound isn't right, twiddles the knobs and leaves with a thumbs up. A minute later the sound system owner comes up and says "What have you done with the sound, you've messed it up". Priceless. So yes Sam is king of the twiddlers. But we love him anyway.

Yes no1 for me for many years.... .... I must have a Sam friendly mixer.... he's used it twice and not played around with anything! ...... You'll have to ask him why next time you speak.... Would be interested to know the reason why? .... Could hire it around the weekend venues and make some money to buy those hard to find monsters!

[Maark]

Yes Ian,and then if it's any good I can cover the label owner's intention up and call it something else and in that way make it a little secret between me and the label owner which is what he would have wanted.

ROD

Although I laughed out loud at this comment, I've not been able to stop thinking about it.

As a (relatively unknown) artist, if someone was to take one of my limited edition prints to another country, display it in a gallery with my name covered up by someone else's slapped on top, I'd be mightily f*cked off...........

Would I be unreasonable to feel like that?

[Tabs]

Not imo.

It just shows disrespect for the artist and their creativity, irrespective of the medium used.

Would I be unreasonable to feel like that?

[Steve G]

Although I laughed out loud at this comment, I've not been able to stop thinking about it.

As a (relatively unknown) artist, if someone was to take one of my limited edition prints to another country, display it in a gallery with my name covered up by someone else's slapped on top, I'd be mightily f*cked off...........

Would I be unreasonable to feel like that?

Not at all, in the same way as it would p*ss you off if you turned up at a gallery and someone was selling illegal prints of one of your originals.

Or if you went to an art show and there were a load of prints hanging up

Edited September 20, 2008 by Steve G

[Guest Gavin Page]

Original Vests Only

[Guest Gavin Page]

At Soul Essence they had to tape down the controls with parcel tape to stop him "re-setting" the sound.

I am going to try a claw hammer accross the fingers at the next S.E

[Steve G]

I am going to try a claw hammer accross the fingers at the next S.E

But he won't be able to get his records out if you did that Gavin....

[Maark]

Not at all, in the same way as it would p*ss you off if you turned up at a gallery and someone was selling illegal prints of one of your originals.

Absolutely Steve............ actually, more so!

I'm trying to get my head around this thread and the only way I can try and make sense of it is to compare it to the art world, even though it may not be "like for like" comparison.

Got to say I've found it a very interesting read (the personal mud slinging aside) and I'm trying to come to terms with my ability to be able to agree with two conflicting opinions at the same time.....

[Ian Dewhirst]

Why didn't you see it Ian ?

Never saw it when I was doing the rounds in California in the mid 70's and never saw on numerous trips all over the U.S. since then, so obviously it's very rare.

However, the Parliaments are surely the sort of group which you would automatically check wouldn't you? What are you going to do if you see a Parliaments record on Cabell and then check the credits - leave it? Don't think so somehow.........

Ian D

Edited September 20, 2008 by Ian Dewhirst

[Guest Gavin Page]

But he won't be able to get his records out if you did that Gavin....

[Steve G]

Absolutely Steve............ actually, more so!

I'm trying to get my head around this thread and the only way I can try and make sense of it is to compare it to the art world, even though it may not be "like for like" comparison.

Got to say I've found it a very interesting read (the personal mud slinging aside) and I'm trying to come to terms with my ability to be able to agree with two conflicting opinions at the same time.....

...well the scene is full of contradictions. You don't need to look very far to find them.

[Sebastian]

the Parliaments are surely the sort of group which you would automatically check wouldn't you? What are you going to do if you see a Parliaments record on Cabell and then check the credits - leave it? Don't think so somehow.........

You do know that it's not the same Parliaments group as on Revilot (etc.), right?

[Steve G]

Never saw it when I was doing the rounds in California in the mid 70's and never saw on numerous trips all over the U.S. since then, so obviously it's very rare.

However, the Parliaments are surely the sort of group which you would automatically check wouldn't you? What are you going to do if you see a Parliaments record on Cabell and then check the credits - leave it? Don't think so somehow.........

Ian D

It's not the same group Ian, but I know the point you are making and agree.

[Steve G]

Maybe just a quick "face barb" with that sock thing of yours will do the trick next time

[Ian Dewhirst]

Spot on Chalky.

From a different perspective, consider this.

In a hypothetical situation a collector/DJ with, say, 2000 original singles of which, say, 10% have great flips, could do a 1 hour slot per week for over 80 weeks without playing the same track twice.

This assumes that the collection is made up of a wide variety of styles - stompers, beat ballads,70's etc but have been acquired to reflect that collector/DJ's personal tastes and not full of tracks to simply complete a label or copy the latest trends. Price is not entirely relevant but you can assume there is plenty of stuff at the cheaper end, and that the collection has been amassed over an extended period.

In other words a collection that is likely to gain appeal in the broadest sense.

You can play around with the numbers but what it would illustrate to me, is that a good DJ with this kind of (hypothetical) collection can keep the floor interested by being imaginative. The product is there, perhaps there needs to more self belief from those that feel they have to adopt a safe stance, including a divergance from original vinyl.

Just a thought, mind.

Well great in theory, but usually the first question asked is what records does someone have. Anyone answering with the reply, "well he's got 2000 great OVO but mostly cheapies and unknowns" will surely get the reply, "haven't we all".

Plus it would take a very brave DJ to play to a large crowd with a stack of records they've never heard before I reckon. The balance used to be along the lines of:-

Established monsters - around 50%

New 'breakers' - around 30%

New total unknowns - around 10%

Cheapies/revived items - around 10%

Note, no oldies back then.

However, the scene has changed a lot hasn't it? It's actually much more diverse in tempo then before so you can get away with beat ballads, early 60's and even slowies etc, etc.

But the real thermometer always used to be the dancefloor which you obviously couldn't afford to alienate back then - especially at the Casino or Cleethorpes or you wouldn't be invited back!

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

It's not the same group Ian, but I know the point you are making and agree.

Well I'd have checked the credits and if there was no G. Clinton on there I may well have passed on the basis that it could be a white group.

Also it's dangerous to compare eras as I'm finding out daily LOL.

I've lost count of the HUNDREDS of records I left in L.A. on the basis that they were too slow for back then. Also when I used to go digging with Soussan, he put me off tons of records which have since gone big with his constant put downs e.g. "that's repetitive GAR-BAGE baby boy", "you wouldn't play this at your funeral", "it's pop GAR-BAGE" or he'd just look at the record and snap in it half!

So anyone who's ever found a broken copy of Kell Osbourne "Quicksand" and wondered why, there's your answer!

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

You do know that it's not the same Parliaments group as on Revilot (etc.), right?

Yep, from a previous thread Seb. It would have been unusual if G. Clinton's name wasn't on the credits so I'd probably have played it out of curiosity and then discarded if it was no good back then.

Ian D

[Jaco]

Well great in theory, but usually the first question asked is what records does someone have. Anyone answering with the reply, "well he's got 2000 great OVO but mostly cheapies and unknowns" will surely get the reply, "haven't we all".

Plus it would take a very brave DJ to play to a large crowd with a stack of records they've never heard before I reckon. The balance used to be along the lines of:-

Established monsters - around 50%

New 'breakers' - around 30%

New total unknowns - around 10%

Cheapies/revived items - around 10%

Note, no oldies back then.

However, the scene has changed a lot hasn't it? It's actually much more diverse in tempo then before so you can get away with beat ballads, early 60's and even slowies etc, etc.

But the real thermometer always used to be the dancefloor which you obviously couldn't afford to alienate back then - especially at the Casino or Cleethorpes or you wouldn't be invited back!

Ian D

Quite right, Ian.

What I was trying to illustrate is that a good DJ should have enough good tracks at his disposal (and I don't necessarily mean those that everybody has got) to keep matters fresh over an extended period.

There is surely enough variety out there, by way of a combination of different styles, unknowns, oldies, underplayed cheapies etc, etc to be imaginitive and not resort to a staid, unadventurous set which might incorporate other formats, just to appear to be ahead of the game.

[Chalky]

Well great in theory, but usually the first question asked is what records does someone have. Anyone answering with the reply, "well he's got 2000 great OVO but mostly cheapies and unknowns" will surely get the reply, "haven't we all".

Plus it would take a very brave DJ to play to a large crowd with a stack of records they've never heard before I reckon. The balance used to be along the lines of:-

Established monsters - around 50%

New 'breakers' - around 30%

New total unknowns - around 10%

Cheapies/revived items - around 10%

Note, no oldies back then.

However, the scene has changed a lot hasn't it? It's actually much more diverse in tempo then before so you can get away with beat ballads, early 60's and even slowies etc, etc.

But the real thermometer always used to be the dancefloor which you obviously couldn't afford to alienate back then - especially at the Casino or Cleethorpes or you wouldn't be invited back!

Ian D

you can't afford to alienate the dance floor these days either Ian, same rules apply, if you clear the floor for your set you still don't get invited back. Like you say it's all about getting the balance right. But to get the balance right you don't have to hammer £1000 record after £1000 record. Many dancers I doubt would care about the cost as long as it's danceable. Many times I've seen a poor reaction to an expensive record yet a 20 quidder has packed the floor.

The need to hear expensive record after expensive record is usually created by the promoter, but if promoters started to get away from this, the big money dj syndrome as a I said earlier, in favour of DJ's who do play a set of imaginative dancers, with the right balance between cheap, expensive and known and lesser known records then the scene will be a lot healthier.

[Sean Hampsey]

Yep, from a previous thread Seb. It would have been unusual if G. Clinton's name wasn't on the credits so I'd probably have played it out of curiosity and then discarded if it was no good back then.

Ian D

Afraid it wouldn't have met the standard back then, Ian.

[Simon M]

Yep, from a previous thread Seb. It would have been unusual if G. Clinton's name wasn't on the credits so I'd probably have played it out of curiosity and then discarded if it was no good back then.

Ian D

Hey and when the Internet hounds saw the green labled release by the same group , guess who knew it was crap ?! We asked him at Lifeline

[Ian Dewhirst]

Afraid it wouldn't have met the standard back then, Ian.

Yep, I can remember having loads of great records which wouldn't have done jack back then on the basis that they were too slow - Johnny Bartel's "If This Isn't Love", Jimmy McFarland's "Lonely Lover" and George Soule's "Baby Please Me" are three that spring to mind......

Ian D

Edited September 20, 2008 by Ian Dewhirst

[Simon M]

Yep, I can remember having loads of great records which wouldn't have done jack back then on the basis that they were too slow - Johnny Bartel's "If This Isn't Love", Jimmy McFarland's "Lonely Lover" and George Soule's "Baby Please Me" are three that spring to mind......

Ian D

So when did "Paris Blues" break big Ian ?

[Ian Dewhirst]

So when did "Paris Blues" break big Ian ?

Contentious issue mate and there's several different views on it depending on who you talk to!

However, I can clearly recall being at Burnley Cricket Club one Tuesday night and Brad from Burnley telling me that Levine had played him a DYNAMITE Tony Middleton tune on Mala called "Paris Blues" produced by Claus Ogerman - an original old time mid-tempo pounder. Brad was brilliant on detail so I always took him seriously.

So we all went over to the Mecca the following Saturday and heard it for the first time. I remember clearly 'cos after the Mecca on the way to Wigan there'd be spontaneous bursts of various people in the car screaming "Paris Blues, follow me each place I go" completely out-of-tune but you get the gist........

Maybe someone can put a date on it? It feels like it was '74 ish............?

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

Hey and when the Internet hounds saw the green labled release by the same group , guess who knew it was crap ?! We asked him at Lifeline

Ian D

[Simon M]

I am going to try a claw hammer accross the fingers at the next S.E

Can we have a SE alldayer , one event a year is not enough is it ?

[Sean Hampsey]

Can we have a SE alldayer , one event a year is not enough is it ?

Should be MONTHLY Simon (IMO).

[Simon M]

Should be MONTHLY Simon (IMO).

Yeah and Steve only plays 30% cheese at SE where as the rest of the year its 100 %

[Ian Dewhirst]

Yeah and Steve only plays 30% cheese at SE where as the rest of the year its 100 %

Yeah but it's very RARE Cheese presumably?

Ian D

[Simon M]

Yeah but it's very RARE Cheese presumably?

Ian D

Yeah , thats been booted or carverd