O.v.o And C.r.&.p Venues

[Guest Gavin Page]

Piss off, Dewhirst!

Yeah, Frank ! ... Son of Sam

[Steve G]

yes you have missed a few but im pretty sure you know that, but thank god for you and jocko as we now know the elite clubs and djs so the rest of us who dont meet your soulfull buddies list can all pack it in.

Rather than sulking tell me who'se missing and I'll add them

Reminder - who is missing from the list please?

[Guest Gavin Page]

Reminder - who is missing from the list please?

Steve, what about Ian D's Master Cuts albums, are they oaky ?

[Steve G]

Steve, what about Ian D's Master Cuts albums, are they oaky ?

Eh? Think he's done some very good albums.

Don't ask me I'm still too busy

[Davetay]

Ladies & Gentlemen - Weekend is looming large - 14 pages of bo**ox - oops I mean lively debate. What conclusions have we reached? Where are we all going Friday & Saturday?

Is it OVO or CR&P ? Does It matter? Enjoy whatever you do - THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT ISN'T IT???????

Hi Andy, 100 Club for us this weekend, not been down for ages so really looking forward to it.

[Guest Gavin Page]

Eh? Think he's done some very good albums.

Don't ask me I'm still too busy

[Geordiejohnson]

I think I said it was nothing to do with format or O.V.O. Just didn't appeal for a variety of reasons. Did enjoy some do over in Barnsley run by Geordie Johnson a while back but it shut down soon after. No doubt similar playlists too but who knows what it is that actually makes for an enjoyable night. Down to individual preferences I guess, and I don't just mean playlists.

ROD

Hi Rod

yes i remember you coming over with mark bicknell on boxing day 2005 was a good night i have it videoed for posterior...we still run the friendship nights but at a different location now..our slant is "OVO" (as is my collection which has been going for over 30 odd years)...however it was to the detriment of attendances we lost our shirts on the friendship....we tried to play different tunes every month... kept it real and sometimes played to only 4 folk...but weve enjoyed keeping it real for 5 years and just love playing new music to like minded folk...

I have no objections to going to another night/ venue and if i found out they played 2nd issues etc i wouldnt be that bothered as i know some people who collect who are on the skids of their arses financially and do love the music but want to collect vinyl and some of them who dj put together better sets with their collections and play from the heart than some of these so called

"big hitter" collectors...ive groaned inwardly on many occaisions over the years at many a dj set that was played for rarities sake not musical quality sake....who gives a shit if its rare or original, if its a shit tune

But hey..... is whinging if someone plays on original vinyl or boot vinyl going to bring my friend back whos just died of cancer...or give another mate a new kidney..is it shit...get real you twonks theres more to life than black plastic disks.

im just sad that this debate is still going on on soul source sfter all these years .. and its got feck all to do with royalties etc etc any more.... its just borng elitism IMHO

Cant the moderators ban threads like this as i might have to switch to the EMS web site full time if i see another one of these

Geeoooooooordie

[Ian Dewhirst]

Steve, what about Ian D's Master Cuts albums, are they oaky ?

LOL, they should be as they cost approximately £18K each to licence the repertoire! Would be impossible to do that series these days......

Ian D

[Steve G]

Hi Rod

But hey..... is whinging if someone plays on original vinyl or boot vinyl going to bring my friend back whos just died of cancer...or give another mate a new kidney..is it shit...get real you twonks theres more to life than black plastic disks.

Geeoooooooordie

...and 5 million starving in Zimbabwe, and social injuctice in China, and my mate who has just lost his job, and my fiend who is ill and my cat who is meeowing for food etc. Come on Geordie don't give me the "lets put the world in perspective" line.....we are talking about the northern /rare soul scene. We're here because we are passionate about it regardless of what is going on around us.

Edited September 18, 2008 by Steve G

[Geordiejohnson]

...and 5 million starving in Zimbabwe, and social injuctice in China, and my mate who has just lost his job, and my fiend who is ill and my cat who is meeowing for food etc. Come on Geordie don't give me the "lets put the world in perspective" line.....we are talking about the northern /rare soul scene. We're here because we are passionate about it regardless of what is going on around us.

Like i said....twonk

Im not happy you belittling the death of my friend....im passionate about music and collecting and i collect originals only but its my collection and i collect what i want.... i dont belittle anybody elses preferences or bore them by ramming mine down others throats, hey you might like... nay prefer to wear womans original silk undies but i really dont want to know about it..neither do i care its all a matter of individual tastes and cares.

Geeooordie

Edited September 18, 2008 by geordiejohnson

[Guest kev such]

Just wanted to relay this.

A while ago i was feverishly trying to obtain a copy of Tommy Dodson "One day love" (great double sider by the way) when i finally got one for a pretty penny, i then played it out a few times. On one occassion i was asked by someone how much i payed for it (another DJ) ?

When i told him, he said "WHAT!!! why did you pay that much, if you had downloaded it from the net and sent a sound clip (or whatever its called) to their mate in London he would have carved it for you for £10 or £15 (the best bit was when he said) and the beauty of it is YOU CAN HAVE WHATEVER YOU WANT ON THE FLIP SIDE" I then said "BECAUSE i wanted a real one" He then said "OH!!" and walked off never to mention the subject again.

For me personally i still enjoy the excitement i feel when i have finally found a tune that i have been looking for, paid for it, have got it in my mitts and get to play it. Hoping that it has the same effect on others as the certain tune has had on me. I dont, or cant at the moment, buy hugely priced tunes. A few i have are worth a tidy sum, however i cant see the point in buying a boot or whatever for £10 or £20 when a real one is only going to cost 2 or 3 times the copied vinyl cost.

Also i only paid 95p for Ike and Tina Turner "Cant chance a break up", and IMO its a brilliant dance tune, but i think that certain elements do believe that to DJ you HAVE to have the BIG hitters, and for many the only way to obtain them is on boot or carver. But as has been said there are fricking tons of bloody good dance tunes available for a very small sum. Also if you cant afford a big hitter on OV, then save for it, wait and it will eventually become available to you, and its worth the wait 100% of the time.

Prattled on enough now.

Regards

Kev (dont do modern) Such

[Steve G]

Like i said....twonk

Geeooordie

Hey Geordie your point is? The world is screwed up and your mates are ill, so we are not allowed to talk about vinyl now?

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez

[Steve G]

Like i said....twonk

Im not happy you belittling the death of my friend....im passionate about music and collecting and i collect originals only but its my collection and i collect what i want.... i dont belittle anybody elses preferences or bore them by ramming mine down others throats, hey you might like... nay prefer to wear womans original silk undies but i really dont want to know about it..neither do i care its all a matter of individual tastes and cares.

Geeooordie

Haven't mentioned the death of your friend. YOU did. And I am certainly not belittling it. Nor have I rammed anything down anyones throat. Not sure about the ladies undies tho - what's that about?

Edited September 18, 2008 by Steve G

[Modernsoulsucks]

I think what we need on this thread is a little more reflection on why we prefer OVO to boots or vice versa and less scathing condemnation of the opposing view.

For instance with OVO you usually get more info etc on the label than many of the boots which can help build up a picture of the history and development. So far I've figured out that all the 45s I have are round but Im sure those of you out there with a more analytical and methodical approach can trace careers of writers/artists/producers etc.

ROD

[Ian Dewhirst]

I think what we need on this thread is a little more reflection on why we prefer OVO to boots or vice versa and less scathing condemnation of the opposing view.

For instance with OVO you usually get more info etc on the label than many of the boots which can help build up a picture of the history and development. So far I've figured out that all the 45s I have are round but Im sure those of you out there with a more analytical and methodical approach can trace careers of writers/artists/producers etc.

ROD

Good point. OV ensures that you get accurate information on the label as per what the label owners intended. And I guess if you need to pay £5K for that info then that's one's choice.

Ian D

[Modernsoulsucks]

Yes Ian,and then if it's any good I can cover the label owner's intention up and call it something else and in that way make it a little secret between me and the label owner which is what he would have wanted.

ROD

[Guest Gogs]

getting nowhere so ........

i am ignoring this thread

[Godzilla]

So far I've figured out that all the 45s I have are round ...

ROD

Ok it's not a 45 but they're out there. I'm just too lazy to look.

[Guest]

My last word !

The crate diggers and pioneers of our old music have to have ovo, as that is where it is still at and was at in the first place ! IMO

once an old 60s 45 is BIG on this scene.........then the bootleggers go to work ! (nothing has changed there in 40 years)

Its always nice to buy a big tune on original, but its fantastic to get into a tune when it is unknown and it then goes on to become a popular tune ! IMO

So if you think that MP3s and Bootlegs are ok, then you have stopped digging !!!! IMO

Keep digging the forgotton/unknown/ and obscure 45s.....buy your fav big established 45s when you are good for a few quid......but come on......its all about ...

OVO

I thought that the passion we have for collecting original and authentic Soul tunes was the very grass root of this scene ?

Its great to swap tapes with each other (as it always was) and now CDRs but to consider DJing at a club with a CD is just not what it is about IMO, .... unless the tune was un released and not available on vinyl/styrene/acetate!

I personally think the playing of unreleased stuff that had made its first appearance on vinyl and the playing of original LPs is fantastic but bootlegs and MP3s of released stuff is just taking the piss out of real Soul Fans and Collectors!

Edited September 19, 2008 by mossy

[Steve G]

I think what we need on this thread is a little more reflection on why we prefer OVO to boots or vice versa and less scathing condemnation of the opposing view.

For instance with OVO you usually get more info etc on the label than many of the boots which can help build up a picture of the history and development. So far I've figured out that all the 45s I have are round but Im sure those of you out there with a more analytical and methodical approach can trace careers of writers/artists/producers etc.

ROD

Fair call Rod,

To me OV has history and meaning. Someones dreams and hopes of fame. Someone may have bought it, who were they, why did they buy it? etc etc. The band may have treasured it. Why did it fail? etc etc Don't get any of that with boots

[Spacehopper]

agree with steves above post and "the more info on label" post also as we have said before generally they sound better but also with the new boots that are copies of original labels ,they are obviously scanned on pcs ,compared to those printed in the 60s/70s they actually look shit even down to the font...doesnt look 60s/70s at all.....kinda like a new gt/et vespa compared to an old gs or rally (sorry if ya not into scoots).....and as with any collector looks are also important....and then as a nice extra theres the investment factor,it will hopefully only ever go up....pay £10 for a new boot and as a secondhand one its immediately only worth a fiver...IMO

[Simon M]

At the end of the day , no one will complain about people playing OV . Unless your a Dullard!!

[Simon M]

It's not your fault you've got no taste, do you even know what it is and the top 100 wasn't decided by me it was contribution of lots of other SS members so they all must be wrong.......................I still reckon it's cos I din't put Donna Summer isn't in there

QoFxx

Ok Mrs , can you pm me this top 100 then ?

[Simon M]

Fair call Rod,

To me OV has history and meaning. Someones dreams and hopes of fame. Someone may have bought it, who were they, why did they buy it? etc etc. The band may have treasured it. Why did it fail? etc etc Don't get any of that with boots

Come of it Steve , your just an obsessive OV Junkie , and these are just the words of someone in denial!

[Mark Bicknell]

This old chestnut of Original Vinyl Only V other means seems to go round in circles, fact of the matter is on this scene the only way to do the DJ thing is with OVO in terms of gaining a solid reputation as a DJ, respect from fellow DJ's and collectors and doing it the right and proper way, the very nature and backbone of the scene is it's fed and based on in the main by obscure, hard to find rare soul records, no matter how you dress it up or use the excuse of it's 'what comes out of the speaker' that counts I think everyone knows in their heart of hearts that there is no short cuts in becoming a DJ on this scene, big difference of being someone who plays music and a true rare soul DJ, having been part of this DJ thing for a number of years it has always been important to me to do it the right way with OVO, head held high knowing that my efforts are at least authentic and I'm not talking about how rare or how much the records cost or are worth.

I can name many people on here who sport the corner of OVO thats just how it is, old school, keeping it real and doing the very best they can, there are hundreds of records I've never owned but would not dream of using a bootleg or carver just to play a popular or big tune it's simply not in the rule book, leave it to the DJ's with the real deal to play, dig deep, move on and develop what you do within your means and try and create your own style rather than cutting corners and cheating basically yourself.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest Gavin Page]

Yes Ian,and then if it's any good I can cover the label owner's intention up and call it something else and in that way make it a little secret between me and the label owner which is what he would have wanted.

ROD

Great post

[CAMBRIDGE SOUL]

We're talking northern venues Derek. Modern CD's should be compulsory fare.

Most of the gigs I promote are not only 60's northern so it's not that black and white..... as most things in life..

Cambridge soul collective, Fulbourn do's are OVO on northern/crossover/RnB and Latin but as we are a true across the board venue, if someone requested a track like 831 by Lisa then I would play the demo cd I have as it is not available on vinyl... I will not have a carver made just to keep the soul police happy!

Evolution @ St Ives is an OVO gig in the main room also the RnB room but many of the upfront modern sounds played in the modern room will be on cd... but the room will be 90% OVO...

Reunion @ St Ives cannot be an OVO Gig as Brian Rae plays cd's..... All other DJ's will play OVO and the modern oldies room will be an OVO room

The sound system used at Fulbourn and in the Theatre room at St Ives cost in excess of £3000.00 and we only use Technics decks and good quality carts and stylus, I have played some boots/pressings against the original and in many cases you can tell the difference in sound quality but not all as some boots/pressings are top quality.

Re the OVO issue.... I would not play the 2^nd issue of Al Mason.... but I would play the Expansion 7" of just ask me rather than mess around with the original LP... also the expansion 7" is the first issue..

and don't forget you have to be careful with British issues/demo's/originals as Dave Rimmer says all British are 2^nd issues not originals but that's another issue! Lol. Hi Dave

Edited by site, please use normal sized text as per forum rules.

[CAMBRIDGE SOUL]

Yeah and I know who the worst offender is on that one......No names though - but an anogram might be slamsou

when Sam played at Fulbourn and Evolution i was informed this was the case.... but not a slider/button or knob changed ! is it another northern myth ?

Edited September 19, 2008 by CAMBRIDGE SOUL

[CAMBRIDGE SOUL]

full of anoraks and trainspotters moaning away as usual, these people make up about 10% of the Northern scene but they appear to dictate everything that happens on it.

i would add the word try in there Pete..... many do's i go to that have massive feed back on ss and are hyped up, are ok to good and some of the do's that get very little feed back are packed with punters and are great nights both on the people and music side ...... depends if you have an ss crowd in i suppose.... start a thread Pete could be interesting

[Ian Dewhirst]

This old chestnut of Original Vinyl Only V other means seems to go round in circles, fact of the matter is on this scene the only way to do the DJ thing is with OVO in terms of gaining a solid reputation as a DJ, respect from fellow DJ's and collectors and doing it the right and proper way, the very nature and backbone of the scene is it's fed and based on in the main by obscure, hard to find rare soul records, no matter how you dress it up or use the excuse of it's 'what comes out of the speaker' that counts I think everyone knows in their heart of hearts that there is no short cuts in becoming a DJ on this scene, big difference of being someone who plays music and a true rare soul DJ, having been part of this DJ thing for a number of years it has always been important to me to do it the right way with OVO, head held high knowing that my efforts are at least authentic and I'm not talking about how rare or how much the records cost or are worth.

I can name many people on here who sport the corner of OVO thats just how it is, old school, keeping it real and doing the very best they can, there are hundreds of records I've never owned but would not dream of using a bootleg or carver just to play a popular or big tune it's simply not in the rule book, leave it to the DJ's with the real deal to play, dig deep, move on and develop what you do within your means and try and create your own style rather than cutting corners and cheating basically yourself.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

I get the gist of your post Mark and I don't think too many people will disagree with most of the points you've made, apart from the fact that you seem to be saying that it must be OVO and nothing else.

That's a bit like sticking your head in the sand like a Dodo, which co-incidentaly is also obselete.

We're living in an age now, where there are 10's of 1000's of Music Blogs around the world and most of those blogs (especially the collectors ones) have 100's and, in some cases, 1000's of tunes on. If you go digging around these blogs, there's loads of great tunes which I've only just discovered after 40 odd years of collecting.

In the past - from 1976 in fact, I used to get on a plane, go to the States and spend weeks/months digging around record shops getting covered in rat shit and cobwebs finding great tunes.

It was possible back then when there were still plenty of record shops and dealers.

But that was then and this is now.

These days, OVO has become a rich man's pursuit. I don't know many DJ's who find their own rarities. Usually they deal with established dealers and hand over shedloads of money don't they? So this whole OVO scenario has essentially become a money game rather than a passion game.

In an age where you can dig around the record collections of the world to your heart's content from the comfort of your sofa and when so much great unreleased stuff is finally appearing on CD for the first time, it seems just nuts to me to limit yourself to one format. What's the point unless it's really fear of the unknown?

In the same way as you wouldn't consider using a wind-up gramophone in this day and age, I don't know why you would limit yourself to playing just one format among many.

As I've said a zillion times before, it's all about taste in music, so why limit your choices unless it's for egotistical reasons?

Ian D

[Simon M]

These days, OVO has become a rich man's pursuit. I don't know many DJ's who find their own rarities. Usually they deal with established dealers and hand over shedloads of money don't they? So this whole OVO scenario has essentially become a money game rather than a passion game.

+++++++++++++++

Ian they are still being found cheapish . For example Butch found the Parliamnets for around £80 . Some say thats the best Northern record found in decades !!

Edited September 19, 2008 by Simon M

[Stevie]

This old chestnut of Original Vinyl Only V other means seems to go round in circles, fact of the matter is on this scene the only way to do the DJ thing is with OVO in terms of gaining a solid reputation as a DJ, respect from fellow DJ's and collectors and doing it the right and proper way, the very nature and backbone of the scene is it's fed and based on in the main by obscure, hard to find rare soul records, no matter how you dress it up or use the excuse of it's 'what comes out of the speaker' that counts I think everyone knows in their heart of hearts that there is no short cuts in becoming a DJ on this scene, big difference of being someone who plays music and a true rare soul DJ, having been part of this DJ thing for a number of years it has always been important to me to do it the right way with OVO, head held high knowing that my efforts are at least authentic and I'm not talking about how rare or how much the records cost or are worth.

I can name many people on here who sport the corner of OVO thats just how it is, old school, keeping it real and doing the very best they can, there are hundreds of records I've never owned but would not dream of using a bootleg or carver just to play a popular or big tune it's simply not in the rule book, leave it to the DJ's with the real deal to play, dig deep, move on and develop what you do within your means and try and create your own style rather than cutting corners and cheating basically yourself.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Spot on Mark, sums it up perfectly.

If we had front page "sticky's" on this site this should be one.

[Chalky]

These days, OVO has become a rich man's pursuit. I don't know many DJ's who find their own rarities. Usually they deal with established dealers and hand over shedloads of money don't they? So this whole OVO scenario has essentially become a money game rather than a passion game.

Ian D

not true Ian, there's 100's if not 1000's of vinyl records that are affordable, by that I mean under 50 quid with many around the £25 mark. The trouble with this scene is rarity is the be all and end all for too many, if it's expensive it's good, if it's cheap its, well not good enough.

Maybe if promoters got away from the big money DJ syndrome and booked those that use some imagination and played records that don't have to cost a fortune but do not suffer quality wise then the scene maybe a better place for it.

[Val (Chunky)]

Maybe if promoters got away from the big money DJ syndrome and booked those that use some imagination and played records that don't have to cost a fortune but do not suffer quality wise then the scene maybe a better place for it.

Amen

[Tomangoes]

The scene has always been elitist, from fashion to record collecting. Its always been full of people judging others and creating the modern day equivelant of a class structure.

Its what makes debates on this forum interesting.

Oh Lord its hard to be humble.............................etc.

Ed

[Mark B]

when Sam played at Fulbourn and Evolution i was informed this was the case.... but not a slider/button or knob changed ! is it another northern myth ?

he does tinker but it tends to be mainlly with the speed up and down if you watch he actually dances with his hands looks like he is altering the controls but he barely touches them.

mark

[Ian Dewhirst]

These days, OVO has become a rich man's pursuit. I don't know many DJ's who find their own rarities. Usually they deal with established dealers and hand over shedloads of money don't they? So this whole OVO scenario has essentially become a money game rather than a passion game.

+++++++++++++++

Ian they are still being found cheapish . For example Butch found the Parliamnets for around £80 . Some say thats the best Northern record found in decades !!

But I hear Butch goes over to Japan to source most of his rarities these days doesn't he?

It's not cheap to fly to Japan and stay there for a couple of weeks and surely he's dealing with established collectors over there, who won't be cheap either.

I wonder how many records over the last 10 years or so have actually been FOUND for the first time by the DJ's themselves? I betcha it's only a handful. Most of the big discoveries will be coming from dealers/collectors won't they?

In which case, I reiterate that collecting/deejaying at the top end is a rich man's game is it not?

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

he does tinker but it tends to be mainlly with the speed up and down if you watch he actually dances with his hands looks like he is altering the controls but he barely touches them.

mark

It's like a nervous tick - a form of St Vitus dance whenever Sam gets behind the decks and gets excited.....

Ian D

[Simon M]

But I hear Butch goes over to Japan to source most of his rarities these days doesn't he?

It's not cheap to fly to Japan and stay there for a couple of weeks and surely he's dealing with established collectors over there, who won't be cheap either.

I wonder how many records over the last 10 years or so have actually been FOUND for the first time by the DJ's themselves? I betcha it's only a handful. Most of the big discoveries will be coming from dealers/collectors won't they?

In which case, I reiterate that collecting/deejaying at the top end is a rich man's game is it not?

Ian D

Well theres some truth there . But most rare vinyl is found through the net and a phone call , so I'd say more people are finding northern , funk, modern and crossover by that means in 2008 . Theres still a fair few being found, its just people keep it to themsleves !

Plus remember it was only John Anderson finding it back in the day !! ( well most of it was found by him )

[chrissie]

Ok Mrs , can you pm me this top 100 then ?

You can find it here Mr M

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/Bit-Fun...sey#entry786975

The final 2008 top 100 is on post 190

QoFxx

[Jumpinjoan]

not true Ian, there's 100's if not 1000's of vinyl records that are affordable, by that I mean under 50 quid with many around the £25 mark. The trouble with this scene is rarity is the be all and end all for too many, if it's expensive it's good, if it's cheap its, well not good enough.

Maybe if promoters got away from the big money DJ syndrome and booked those that use some imagination and played records that don't have to cost a fortune but do not suffer quality wise then the scene maybe a better place for it.

Spot on Chalky.

Its not rocket science is it?

Rocket science is easy in comparison!

[Simon M]

You can find it here Mr M

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/Bit-Fun...sey#entry786975

The final 2008 top 100 is on post 190

QoFxx

Ok I'll make my comments on that lot , in private after the weekend

[Garethx]

But I hear Butch goes over to Japan to source most of his rarities these days doesn't he?

It's not cheap to fly to Japan and stay there for a couple of weeks and surely he's dealing with established collectors over there, who won't be cheap either.

I wonder how many records over the last 10 years or so have actually been FOUND for the first time by the DJ's themselves? I betcha it's only a handful. Most of the big discoveries will be coming from dealers/collectors won't they?

In which case, I reiterate that collecting/deejaying at the top end is a rich man's game is it not?

Ian D

Hi Ian

I think the old distinctions between collectors on one hand and deejays on the other have largely broken down at the top level. Maybe Sam is the last of those left who buy records primarily for deejaying. Having said that, in doing so Sam has amassed a hell of a collection. I get the feeling that if the likes of Butch, Arthur Fenn and Andy Dyson (and others of course) were to give up deejaying tomorrow they would never stop buying soul music. Your comment about it being a rich man's game might be true if one was starting from scratch and trying to build up a set of the biggest and best current spins, but a lot of the current biggies started life as 'collectors records', certainly rare, but not necessarily expensive throughout their known history: Little Willie Johnson, Buddy Cantrell etc. were certainly not always three-grand records; as Simon points out above, The Parliaments on Cabell was a relatively cheap ebay record which only a few people in the world were interested in at the time.

Thirty-odd years of buying interesting records, taking a punt on cheap unknowns, having an ear for a future monster and the conviction to push such records are all tools which can circumvent the need for a large cash outlay on vinyl.

The old model of dealers, deejays and collectors being separate entities doesn't really exist at the top level any more. These guys are more like an amalgam of all three helped by a worldwide network of contacts built up over a long period of time plus a lot of perseverance in gaining knowledge of soul music. There's no quick fix in getting to that position: a lottery win might help, but to stay at the top there's no substitute for taste and knowledge.

[Simon M]

Thanks Gareth , how many words per min are you on now? And see ya tonight !

[Ian Dewhirst]

Hi Ian

I think the old distinctions between collectors on one hand and deejays on the other have largely broken down at the top level. Maybe Sam is the last of those left who buy records primarily for deejaying. Having said that, in doing so Sam has amassed a hell of a collection. I get the feeling that if the likes of Butch, Arthur Fenn and Andy Dyson (and others of course) were to give up deejaying tomorrow they would never stop buying soul music. Your comment about it being a rich man's game might be true if one was starting from scratch and trying to build up a set of the biggest and best current spins, but a lot of the current biggies started life as 'collectors records', certainly rare, but not necessarily expensive throughout their known history: Little Willie Johnson, Buddy Cantrell etc. were certainly not always three-grand records; as Simon points out above, The Parliaments on Cabell was a relatively cheap ebay record which only a few people in the world were interested in at the time.

Thirty-odd years of buying interesting records, taking a punt on cheap unknowns, having an ear for a future monster and the conviction to push such records are all tools which can circumvent the need for a large cash outlay on vinyl.

The old model of dealers, deejays and collectors being separate entities doesn't really exist at the top level any more. These guys are more like an amalgam of all three helped by a worldwide network of contacts built up over a long period of time plus a lot of perseverance in gaining knowledge of soul music. There's no quick fix in getting to that position: a lottery win might help, but to stay at the top there's no substitute for taste and knowledge.

Great reply Gareth.

But I'm stunned that a record by The Parliaments on Cabell wouldn't have amassed much interest. Why not? If I'd have seen it I'd have been on it in a flash. ...........

Ian D

[Simon M]

Great reply Gareth.

But I'm stunned that a record by The Parliaments on Cabell wouldn't have amassed much interest. Why not? If I'd have seen it I'd have been on it in a flash. ...........

Ian D

Why didn't you see it Ian ?

[Little-stevie]

The real form of OVO will be out in force this weekend at certain events ...

Original Vests Only

Have fun folks... The weekend is here..

[soulsalmon]

not true Ian, there's 100's if not 1000's of vinyl records that are affordable, by that I mean under 50 quid with many around the £25 mark. The trouble with this scene is rarity is the be all and end all for too many, if it's expensive it's good, if it's cheap its, well not good enough.

Maybe if promoters got away from the big money DJ syndrome and booked those that use some imagination and played records that don't have to cost a fortune but do not suffer quality wise then the scene maybe a better place for it.

Well said Chalky,venues like lifeline,Wilton,BurnleyLowton have this policy.i dj'd at Burnley recently and played a couple of 200+ records the rest of the set probably cost about the same,went down well as did Big danny's set after(better than mine if truth be told ),again few expensive items but a well thought out set.

Salmon

[Garethx]

Great reply Gareth.

But I'm stunned that a record by The Parliaments on Cabell wouldn't have amassed much interest. Why not? If I'd have seen it I'd have been on it in a flash. ...........

Ian D

The answer is in having knowledge plus the confidence gained from having that knowledge. This was a missing number in the label discography but to know that you would have needed an interest in a label which is quite obscure. Although the group had a known 'Northern' release, Cry No More, this 45 could easily have been awful. Maybe some vocal group collector in the mists of time had mentioned to the buyer that the record in question was great, or maybe it was pure luck.

Either way, a lot of ebay buyers are still unwilling to take a punt on records they don't know: the same core of oldies and known tunes always make big-bucks, but obscurities often go through bid-less or really cheaply.

This will maybe change as more auctions have soundclips these days and the guesswork about a record's aural qualities is removed. Even so, many buyers seem to need the rubber-stamp of a record being 'big for so-and-so' before they'll want it.

I think it's interesting that some current monsters were collected in wider spheres of black music interest than the confines of 'Northern Soul': Funk, Groups, Boogie, Disco, Deep and Southern Soul are all areas which have yielded current Northern monsters. A more rounded interest in black music would appear to be useful in staying ahead of the pack.

[Sean Hampsey]

I think it's interesting that some current monsters were collected in wider spheres of black music interest than the confines of 'Northern Soul': Funk, Groups, Boogie, Disco, Deep and Southern Soul are all areas which have yielded current Northern monsters. A more rounded interest in black music would appear to be useful in staying ahead of the pack.

Think you're spot on there Gareth. The more 'obvious Northern' type tunes are thinner on the ground with records from other genres beginning to occupy the 'new/current spin' space.

Sean