O.v.o And C.r.&.p Venues

[Guest Brett F]

Not Guilty!!

Seems like you have quite a fan base on here Jocky All those years of networking must be paying off

Just wanna' say that i know Jock, the fella' has his opinion thats all , why all the upset ?, i don't see that Jock has said anything heinous, i'm not here to take sides, but it is a forum and peoples viewpoints do differ. Jock is just passionate about his music..... bottom line.

Brett

Edited September 17, 2008 by Brett F

[Maark]

On that point I can't argue Maark...taste is everything...doesn't matter how many originals you have...if you don't know a great record from your arse then you're in trouble

But one man's good record Beeks, is another person's cue to go to the loo! I could give you a cd of my fave 30 tunes and you may think it's crap! Then we could accuse each other of having no taste!

[Guest gordon russell]

Indeed. Why didn't I think of that?

steve youv'e not started wearing a caveat with you check shirt have you mate lol

[Guest rachel]

it's the intangibles of practice and etiquette which give our scene its particular identity

I think this is the best sentence I've read in this whole debate

Lets try not to go down the road of bickering, if I have to read another Beeks v Jock extravaganza I'll be on the gin...

[Guest Beeks]

Just wanna' say that i know Jock, the fella' has his opinion thats all , why all the upset ?, i don't see that Jock has said anything heinous, i'm not here to take sides, but it is a forum and peoples viewpoints do differ. Jock is just passionate about his music..... bottom line.

Brett

To be honest Brett the guy would have to be radically different than on here for ANYONE to think he's anything less than a bitter nasty piece of work...EVERYONE on soul source loves their soul music...we wouldn't be here otherwise...but not everyone is as condescending or vicious...hardly the traits you warm to are they?

[Guest Paul]

As a mere punter, the highlighted sentence is the one that has made the most sense in the 10 pages of this thread. At the end of the day, people own a copy (even if it is OV) of the music, they don't own THE music!

Thanks for your comments, Mark, and thanks for reading what I actually wrote!

You have given me hope.

Paul

[Guest Paul]

Just wanna' say that i know Jock, the fella' has his opinion thats all , why all the upset ?, i don't see that Jock has said anything heinous, i'm not here to take sides, but it is a forum and peoples viewpoints do differ. Jock is just passionate about his music..... bottom line.

Brett

Fair comment, Brett, but the "bottom line" is that Jocko seems to imagine things I didn't say or even imply.

People do have different views, but it's wrong to invent or distort people's views.

Best regards,

Paul

[Guest Brett F]

To be honest Brett the guy would have to be radically different than on here for ANYONE to think he's anything less than a bitter nasty piece of work...EVERYONE on soul source loves their soul music...we wouldn't be here otherwise...but not everyone is as condescending or vicious...hardly the traits you warm to are they?

I'm not here to defend Jock ( he can do that himself), some folks in life will never get on, you two seem not too.

But i and many others do get on with Jock, he's a good man and has brilliant taste in music, and also is fabulous company.

Thats all i'm saying on the matter.

Brett

Edited September 17, 2008 by Brett F

[Guest gordon russell]

heres a thought if you haven't got the tunes and for what ever reason can't afford em........THEN WHY BE A DJ leave that to those that have and can,l want to play footy for england but l ain't no good so i'm fucked if i'm gonna play for the malt shovel

[Garrison]

heres a thought if you haven't got the tunes and for what ever reason can't afford em........THEN WHY BE A DJ leave that to those that have and can,l want to play footy for england but l ain't no good so i'm fucked if i'm gonna play for the malt shovel

youd make a good centre half tez

[Kjw]

Perhaps venues should follow what Bentinck (East Mids) have done - have 2 rooms.

The main room is the popular sounds, 80% 60's and 20% 70's and I know a few of the guest DJ's have been known to play the odd re-issue / bootleg etc but the crowd in there don't care - they're there to dance and have a good night out

The back room is 100% original vinyl - Rare / underplayed 60's and 70's and the crowd in their go purely to hear the music and pick up on new sounds

Everyone's happy

[Chalky]

I'm not here to defend Jock ( he can do that himself), some folks in life will never get on, you two seem not too.

But i and many others do get on with Jock, he's a good man and has brilliant taste in music, and also is fabulous company.

Thats all i'm saying on the matter.

Brett

'ere 'ere. Jock is not a bitter nasty piece of work, far from it, he's actually one of the good guys and as Brett says great company!

Edited September 17, 2008 by chalky

[Guest Brett F]

Perhaps venues should follow what Bentinck (East Mids) have done - have 2 rooms.

The main room is the popular sounds, 80% 60's and 20% 70's and I know a few of the guest DJ's have been known to play the odd re-issue / bootleg etc but the crowd in there don't care - they're there to dance and have a good night out

The back room is 100% original vinyl - Rare / underplayed 60's and 70's and the crowd in their go purely to hear the music and pick up on new sounds

Everyone's happy

The backroom (Rare / underplayed 60's and 70's) guys played up at Modernism last month, quality music, had a good chat with them, they played the sort of soul i love (and gladly one or two i own) top class original vinyl collectors.

Brett

[Mark B]

You did mean Mamsey Pamsey didn't you Simon?

no Sean

he meant mamsey hampsey

mark

[Garethx]

edit.

Edited September 17, 2008 by garethx

[Mark B]

I've always believed there should be more violence at venues, there should be a skip, ring lined with blood soaked "baggies" (40" bottoms, they hold more of the red stuff) then every rotten scrag hound from each dark and filthy genre of the soul scene, should be thrown head first into this treacherous steel coffin. All the different factions would be armed to the teeth, whipped steel axes, pipe wrenches with flame hardened teeth, drop forged pry bars (the ones with the very thin blade, they prise into small places) then all manner of ungodly actions could take place in this theatre of hate..........then and only then would this savage argument be finally laid to rest................

Brett

Sometimes your mind scares me Brett dont ever get into making horror movies

mark

[Garethx]

when did you last hear those four DJ? Have you heard them DJ? Come to Lifeline and I think you'll find they aren't playing the same things. I doubt apart from what you might read on hear you have little clue about any of them, what they collect, what they play and in the case of one what they discover/find for others.

I agree with Chalky completely as well. To characterise these particular deejays as clapped-out relics of the old guard is misguided and is clearly based on never having heard them play records anywhere.

I'm trying not to be personal, Beeks (I've gone down that road before and am not particularly proud of it) but you're going after the wrong targets again.

[Guest]

Hi Adam...great records btw

I Understand your frustrations but I have the feeling it will get alot better fast.

The punters want to hear Wigan spins because it takes them back to a time in their life when they were enjoying themselves...it's memories not records they are hearing...so obviously...it has a special meaning to them...I liken it to say...me...going to the Hacienda in the late 80s/90s...some of the music in the Hacienda was garbage(Similar to the pop being played in Wigan) but whenever I hear a tune from there played on the radio etc...whether it is a good or bad record it transports me right back there...suppose its similar.

I don't think that all the older crowd want to hear is wigan anthems though.

The records we play out must have been played out at the time in various venues across the country so if our spins connect with a small percentage i'd settle for that...I just play good soul music which you just have to dance to...if its good...doesn't matter if it was played in Timbucktoo Casino...you will always get good feedback.

As for getting the breaks...Sian from the Rugby lot has exactly the right idea...and if more promoters are brave enough to follow suit then I genuinely feel you will get not only a new wave of fantastic DJs coming through...but a new wave of big records too...ok...so perhaps it will knock the A-List Djs noses out of joint but hey...they have had it good for too long now anyway...would be fun seeing what happens when gatecrashers come to the party!

Cheers Beeks,

I hope that the majority of people that attend venues are open to new sounds especially when mixed in with some classic ones.....and when at nighters (and I'm generally at one every weekend) the majority of people attending are open to hearing something different. Not sure it's the same at a lot of soul nights though.

Would be great if a new generation of DJs does come through and it might help attract some younger punters if the people they see DJing are of a similar age to themselves. Having said that the 'A list' DJs like Butch, Mick H and Andy Dyson (amongst others these are just first names that popped into my head) are at the very top because they deserve to be. One of the reasons that I spend hours every weekend driving to venues is to hear some of these DJs play.....and it's worth every penny and every hour on the motorway. If you're not doing anything else on Sat night get yourself down to Burnley, Andy D is playing and I can almost guarantee that he'll do a fantastic set, plus Burnley is a top night and all the DJs there are playing some great stuff. I'm hoping Andy is going to take his sales box so i can raid it .

It's the DJs playing the same old sounds and paying good money for boots/pressings of played out records that I don't understand.....instead of buying boots why not trust your own judgement and dig a bit deeper to find quality originals to play???

Adam.

Edited September 17, 2008 by Guest

[chrissie]

no Sean

he meant mamsey hampsey

mark

Hey, don't knock it till you've tried it SImon is just bitter cos there are no disco divas in the current MP top 100

QMPxx

Edited September 17, 2008 by chrissie

[Guest Paul]

'ere 'ere. Jock is not a bitter nasty piece of work, far from it, he's actually one of the good guys and as Brett says great company!

Hello Chalky,

No doubt Jocko isn't so bad in "real life" but from the way he comes across in public forums, I agree with Beeks.

And I admire you, Brett and Gareth for supporting him. That's what friends are for.

Let's hope that one day Jocko will be able to display the calm, considered, tactful, diplomatic, tolerant, sensitive and understanding side of his nature.

I'm looking forward to that.

Sincerely,

Paul

[Chalky]

I agree with Chalky completely as well. To characterise these particular deejays as clapped-out relics of the old guard is misguided and is clearly based on never having heard them play records anywhere.

I'm trying not to be personal, Beeks (I've gone down that road before and am not particularly proud of it) but you're going after the wrong targets again.

I neither wish to get into any arguements but he should engage his brain before he gives us the benifit of his wisdom when it comes to northern soul or the rare soul scene. To come out with the comment he did about hardly pushing the boat out is just ridiculous. I doubt Beeks has heard any of the four mentioned DJ, maybe Mick? has Beeks been to an all-nighter other than Rugby? All four are up there with the best, especially when it comes to pushing the boat out, Andy Dyson especially.

[Steve G]

You might be right.

Didn't see him when you and I were Rockin' it large at the Sheffield Soul Weekender, t'other week!

I was DJing at a northern soul club

[Simon M]

I was DJing at a northern soul club

but Chrissie said it was an OVO , Mamsey Pamsey doo also some R&R ?

[jocko]

Thanks for the nice words again guys but really no need, probably prefer if you deleted them to be honest, as Rachel says it takes away from an interesting thread, and I dont want to get on the wrong side of Rachel, birds from the border are hard you know!!

I am about to PM he whose name should never be mentioned to see if he will stick to the rules of engagement in future, as I only responded, stupidly I admit, will probably include his new best mate since as usual there is no answer to my points just personal mud slinging.

And before either thinks of responding on here, leave me out of anything you have to say, lets do personal off thread, people are well and truly bored of our petulance and Rachel and her talons are watching closely.

I am definitely out of here now!

Edited September 17, 2008 by jocko

[Guest rachel]

Thanks for the nice words again guys but really no need, probably prefer if you deleted them to be honest, as Rachel says it takes away from an interesting thread, and I dont want to get on the wrong side of Rachel, birds from the border are hard you know!!

I am about to PM he whose name should never be mentioned to see if he will stick to the rules of engagement in future, as I only responded, stupidly I admit, will probably include his new best mate since as usual there is no answer to my points just personal mud slinging.

And before either thinks of responding on here, leave me out of anything you have to say, lets do personal off thread, people are well and truly bored of our petulance and Rachel and her talons are watching closely.

I am definitely out of here now!

Who you calling a bird?

You are all obviously passionate, but I'd rather read your passionate arguments on the music/ records/ scene than about each others virtues (or lack of them)... now which loop of the 'going round in circles' were we on...?

[Guest ruffsounds]

Me thinks SELECTADISC and others like Simon.S. have stirred up a hornets nest here hehe .

Ralph

[Guest James Trouble]

All of the above have great collections and are accomplished DJs...but if all of the above are playing the same MONSTER £1000+ records...well...remember what I was saying about pushing the boat out?

Dude, seriously, sort it out will you...

[Guest Glynn Jones]

hmmm would be nice to know where we could hear the stuff we wanted to hear.

Sounds like something the "oldies only" crowd would say, Steve.

We're all the same, but different.

[Jumpinjoan]

Seems like you have quite a fan base on here Jocky All those years of networking must be paying off

I'm intrigued as to what you mean by networking?

I'm sure the majority on here would probably call it being on the soul scene for 25 years.

All of the above have great collections and are accomplished DJs...but if all of the above are playing the same MONSTER £1000+ records...well...remember what I was saying about pushing the boat out?

How would you know what sort of collections they have got or what they are playing out?

Surely you would have to attend the venues they play at to know that?

[Guest ruffsounds]

Just thought does UK originals count or is it imports only as i do get some weird looks and questions when i play my Uk stuff out .

cheers Ralph

[Jumpinjoan]

I'm intrigued as to what you mean by networking?

I'm sure the majority on here would probably call it being on the soul scene for 25 years.

How would you know what sort of collections they have got or what they are playing out?

Surely you would have to attend the venues they play at to know that?

Sorry Rachel

[Sean Hampsey]

no Sean

he meant mamsey hampsey

mark

Thanks Mark,

I thought he did!

Right.... I'm avin 'im!

[Sean Hampsey]

I was DJing at a northern soul club

Forgiven then!

It's just that we both missed you.

Sean

[Guest Paul]

Maybe someone should invent an amplifier with an OV meter?

The needles would flicker in and out of the red section whenever a dubious record is played.

And when a total bootleg is played the needles would stick in the red section, triggering off an automatic cut-off which would kill the output and render the venue silent.

You could also link it to a fire alarm and an overhead water sprinkler which could be located just above the DJ box for obvious reasons.

It might make the world a much safer place.

Paul Mooney

[Guest Paul]

Here's one I made earlier...

Paul

[vaultofsouler]

Maybe someone should invent an amplifier with an OV meter?

The needles would flicker in and out of the red section whenever a dubious record is played.

And when a total bootleg is played the needles would stick in the red section, triggering off an automatic cut-off which would kill the output and render the venue silent.

You could also link it to a fire alarm and an overhead water sprinkler which could be located just above the DJ box for obvious reasons.

It might make the world a much safer place.

Paul Mooney

Paul.... never mind my own view, I'm intrigued and a little confused with your view on the playing of "boots" having read your replies throughout this thread....

I say this because you, quite rightly, lambast bootlegging of records in other threads where the topic of bootlegs and bootlegging is mentioned.... yet within this thread you seem to be saying ther's no harm in playing them, almost advocating it is OK to bootleg in what you say....

Surely to suggest playing "boots" is permitted, no matter what type of venue it is at, is to "accept" bootlegging as a practice.... as you can't play them if they aren't made.... now as you can see, this is where my confusion over your thoughts on it transpire from bearing in mind your business.... as you can't, in my opinion, accept one without the other....

If I've read wrongly into your accepting playing "boots" I apologise but that is how I'm reading it.....

Soulfully.... Mark

Edited September 17, 2008 by vaultofsouler

[Guest Paul]

Paul.... never mind my own view, I'm intrigued and a little confused with your view on the playing of "boots" having read your replies throughout this thread....

I say this because you, quite rightly, lambast bootlegging of records in other threads where the topic of bootlegs and bootlegging is mentioned.... yet within this thread you seem to be saying ther's no harm in playing them, almost advocating it is OK to bootleg in what you say....

Surely to suggest playing "boots" is permitted, no matter what type of venue it is at, is to "accept" bootlegging as a practice.... as you can't play them if they aren't made.... now as you can see, this is where my confusion over your thoughts on it transpire from bearing in mind your business.... as you can't, in my opinion, accept one without the other....

If I've read wrongly into your accepting playing "boots" I apologise but that is how I'm reading it.....

Soulfully.... Mark

Hello Mark,

I'm certainly against bootlegs and bootleggers in general but I can't really object to an individual who buys or plays a bootleg.

The choice is up to them.

I just don't feel that I have the right to tell people what to buy and what not to buy. I would probably be shot down in flames.

All I can do is alert people to specific bootlegs from time to time and ask them not to give support.

But I do understand that some people just can't resist a particular record and they'll sometimes buy a bootleg because there's no affordable alternative. I did it myself when I was a teenager, mostly in ignorance.

So I haven't changed my views, Mark, I'm just trying to be realistic about things.

Best regards,

Paul

P.S. My patented oV meter will catch a few of them out!

Edited September 17, 2008 by Paul

[Steve G]

Hello Mark,

I'm certainly against bootlegs and bootleggers in general but I can't really object to an individual who buys or plays a bootleg.

The choice is up to them.

I just don't feel that I have the right to tell people what to buy and what not to buy. I would probably be shot down in flames.

All I can do is alert people to specific bootlegs from time to time and ask them not to give support.

But I do understand that some people just can't resist a particular record and they'll sometimes buy a bootleg because there's no affordable alternative. I did it myself when I was a teenager, mostly in ignorance.

So I haven't changed my views, Mark, I'm just trying to be realistic about things.

Best regards,

Paul

P.S. My patented oV meter will catch a few of them out!

I just don't get these double standards Paul. For years you've been on the anti bootlegging bandwagon tut tutting at the northern scene from afar for making illegal copies of records, now it's ok if someone wants to buy them and it's all down to market forces and hey what the hell. I am sorry but I don't buy it - get your backbone back in mate.

[Steve G]

Just thought does UK originals count or is it imports only as i do get some weird looks and questions when i play my Uk stuff out .

cheers Ralph

I often play UK originals especially if I am doing a club night or oldies night. Love'em.

[Guest Beeks]

Dude, seriously, sort it out will you...

Dude seriously...never use the word Dude in my presence again...it's embarrassing

[Guest Beeks]

I'm intrigued as to what you mean by networking?

I'm sure the majority on here would probably call it being on the soul scene for 25 years.

Listen Joan...I don't care if Jock has been on the soul scene since music was invented...he might be all smiles and a bundle of fun when he's out and about...but on here he's an arsehole...period

How would you know what sort of collections they have got or what they are playing out?

Surely you would have to attend the venues they play at to know that?

Joan i've been going to scooter rallies and weekenders for many years, i've seen most of the top DJs...Russ Winstanley has even played for me at one of my nights(Eyes Down in Dry Bar) So this attending venues thing is wearing a little thin

[vaultofsouler]

Hello Mark,

I'm certainly against bootlegs and bootleggers in general but I can't really object to an individual who buys or plays a bootleg.

The choice is up to them.

I just don't feel that I have the right to tell people what to buy and what not to buy. I would probably be shot down in flames.

All I can do is alert people to specific bootlegs from time to time and ask them not to give support.

But I do understand that some people just can't resist a particular record and they'll sometimes buy a bootleg because there's no affordable alternative. I did it myself when I was a teenager, mostly in ignorance.

So I haven't changed my views, Mark, I'm just trying to be realistic about things.

Best regards,

Paul

P.S. My patented oV meter will catch a few of them out!

I just don't get these double standards Paul. For years you've been on the anti bootlegging bandwagon tut tutting at the northern scene from afar for making illegal copies of records, now it's ok if someone wants to buy them and it's all down to market forces and hey what the hell. I am sorry but I don't buy it - get your backbone back in mate.

Paul.... thanks for your honest reply.... I think Steve's reply re double standards, stated stronger than perhaps I would have , is what I was thinking ....

I know you say you can't tell others what to do, and that others will buy and DJ with them no matter what, but I not sure I get the acceptance of one and not the other.... that's why I asked....

Just my thoughts though, as I know yours are yours, though obviously differing in approach.....

Soulfully.... Mark

Edited September 17, 2008 by vaultofsouler

[Guest Beeks]

Thanks for the nice words again guys but really no need, probably prefer if you deleted them to be honest, as Rachel says it takes away from an interesting thread, and I dont want to get on the wrong side of Rachel, birds from the border are hard you know!!

I am about to PM he whose name should never be mentioned to see if he will stick to the rules of engagement in future, as I only responded, stupidly I admit, will probably include his new best mate since as usual there is no answer to my points just personal mud slinging.

And before either thinks of responding on here, leave me out of anything you have to say, lets do personal off thread, people are well and truly bored of our petulance and Rachel and her talons are watching closely.

I am definitely out of here now!

Because you're always the victim of our cruel jibes Jocko...a regular good guy who minds his own business arn't you

[chrissie]

Listen Joan...I don't care if Jock has been on the soul scene since music was invented...he might be all smiles and a bundle of fun when he's out and about...but on here he's an arsehole...period

Joan i've been going to scooter rallies and weekenders for many years, i've seen most of the top DJs...Russ Winstanley has even played for me at one of my nights(Eyes Down in Dry Bar) So this attending venues thing is wearing a little thin

........errrrrrr and you are bragging about it

QoF

[Guest Gavin Page]

I often play UK originals especially if I am doing a club night or oldies night. Love'em.

I am so pleased you said that, I thought it might be an issue as well

So with all these rules can we play an album cut if it came out on a 45?

[jocko]

Listen Joan...I don't care if Jock has been on the soul scene since music was invented...he might be all smiles and a bundle of fun when he's out and about...but on here he's an arsehole...period

I asked you to keep me out of it, I assume you have been out for some Dutch courage, I am asking you one last time, f*** off out of my face, I was going to do this by PM but as usual you shout your mouth off.

I do not like you because of what was said when you first came on here, I have stayed away as much as I can but you again are making it personal.

6"3 or not you are going to end up regretting this very soon

Sorry Mike but no matter how much I tell this jerk to leave me out of he comes on slinging mud, please do not delete his comments this time as last time it was not clear exactly why I was so pissed off at him

Mate I dont enjoy ridiculing you, but you make it too easy and I only do it when you start your crap like now, last time GTF and play with your new friends and leave me out of it.

I am sure Butch is playing at a scooter rally near you so off you go.

Joan i've been going to scooter rallies and weekenders for many years, i've seen most of the top DJs...Russ Winstanley has even played for me at one of my nights(Eyes Down in Dry Bar) So this attending venues thing is wearing a little thin

I take it this is your night? When did Russ do this since it only started on 15/09. I think one of the guys on here might even know Kelvin to ask him what it was like.

https://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea...iendID=55572347

Edited September 17, 2008 by jocko

[Guest Beeks]

........errrrrrr and you are bragging about it

QoF

Haha not at all...just trying to get a point across...makes me laugh...Jocko attacks some poor guy on here and I end up getting abuse

[Guest Beeks]

I take it this is your night? When did Russ do this since it only started on 15/09. I think one of the guys on here might even know Kelvin to ask him what it was like.

AHAHAHAHA Eyes Down has been going for years...me Jon Kraus and Gawain Forster...Jack and Kelvin Brown were doing it for years...I lived with three of them for 4 and a half years...you really are trying it on hahahahaha

[jocko]

Haha not at all...just trying to get a point across...makes me laugh...Jocko attacks some poor guy on here and I end up getting abuse

Which was f*** all to do with you, now do one.

[Steve G]

So with all these rules can we play an album cut if it came out on a 45?

Of course you can Gav. It's about bootlegs and playing quality....not about playing an album track of somehing that was on 45 which I don't bthink has ever been contentious.