Why The Venom

[Citizen P]

I can't really get me head round the way RW is being battered on the other thread.

If anybody has the RIGHT to hold an Anniversery, Re-Union, call it what you will, it's him.

Unfortunately, however well intentioned, he does seem to do it so Spectaculary badly.

Had he got a decent sized venue, in the Wigan area- Monaco say or similar, I would have probably gone for a bit nostaglia, a bit like I went to Blackpool for The Mecca thing I wouldn't want it every week, but then who would?

How many events over the next month or two will be calling themselves "Wigan Memories or ReUnions or whatever.

How many oldies nights( ) are there that will not play Wigan Tunes???????????

Anyway, RW is not the only former "Big" DJ to use CD's now is he?

Still living on his reputation?, Am I bovvered?

Don't suppose many folk talk to Geoff Hurst without mentioning 1966

I will not be going, and those that are going will not change my life one way or the other.

I do wish he could get it right though.

Tony

P.S.(post script, before the paranoia sets in)

I wonder how "One Night in the Padham Pigeon Fanciers Club" would have gone down?

[Epic]

Think the words "Shopping Centre Soul" tells you the answer to your question.

[Citizen P]

Well, I did say that he does do it rather badly.

However I still think that I could give it a go-once a year- for old times sake, if it was done CORRECTLY. In a proper venue.

Regards

Tony

[Casper]

we went last year... against the "soul police" wishes who slagged it off before the event even took place.... guess what ? we and 95% of the people had a super time..

yes it is a bit odd in a shopping centre ... but in some strange way it worked, some bits went wrong like the cue for the "bar" and i hope for the people who use it they think about a better service...the night had its own magic in its own way.....we will be there again this year for sure.

as for RW....if you ever get the chance to chat to him then do.... a really nice bloke .....and if he can still make a living from events etc and the name of "wigan casino" and our memories, well good luck to him, it was a buisness after all venture in the first place i guess... was it not ?

pete n' susan

[Russ Vickers]

Bunch of hypocrits............do what ya like, but dont even begin to pretend this is part of any kinda NS scene, I personally find it absolutely cringe worthy & if any of my divvy mates, asked me about it, I would do a 'Judas'........its totally embarrassing to anyone who even has a tentative grasp of what Northern & Rare Soul is about...............I dont want to get into some long drawn out debate again over the same old sh*t, but you lot should be getting ya selfs to a propper Allnighter some where instead of this pathetic dross. You're sad & have lost the way NS wise IMHO. Still each to their own & have a good time, personally I would rather drip sulphuric acid down mi japs eye.

Russ

Edited September 6, 2008 by Russ Vickers

[kevinsoulman]

Bunch of hypocrits............do what ya like, but dont even begin to pretend this is part of any kinda NS scene, I personally find it absolutely cringe worthy & if any of my divvy mates, asked me about it, I would do a 'Judas'........its totally embarrassing to anyone who even has a tentative grasp of what Northern & Rare Soul is about...............I dont want to get into some long drawn out debate again over the same old sh*t, but you lot should be getting ya selfs to a propper Allnighter some where instead of this pathetic dross. You're sad & have lost the way NS wise IMHO. Still each to their own & have a good time, personally I would rather drip sulphuric acid down mi japs eye.

Russ

maybe a tad over the top but i had the chance to go with my mate whom i used to go to the casino with, but after visiting the cafe ect on the way to blackpool last year the idea of going to a nighter there just left me cold and i declined.still good luck to russ if he can still earn a bob or two and who knows it might introduce a few to the scene who have never been before

kev

[Guest Matt Male]

What bothers me is that this purpetuates the existance of the 'overplayed oldies only' crowd as a part of the wider rare soul scene. They attend venues like this and oldies nights etc... and then they turn up to 'across the board' and progressive nights and moan about the music policy and ask for oldies all night, forcing the DJs to alter music policy because 80% of the punters haven't read the flyer properly (and the poor DJs feel obliged to play to the floor) or just roll up to every soul night expecting expecting to hear the same thing week in week out.

They aren't prepared to dance to anything they haven't heard before, or give any new sounds a chance (and it's not even a 60s, 70s, Y2K issue either). Personally i wish they would just clear off and form their own nostalgia scene now, even take the words 'northern soul' with them if they like. I never thought i would ever be ashamed to be associated with the term northern soul, but it seems to just mean 'overplayed oldies only' to the majority these days and personally for me the existance of the Overplayed Oldies Only crowd is starting to ruin the scene for me. It feels like 70% of the Northern Soul scene is just stagnant and will be that way for ever; the trouble is it's starting to pollute everything else.

Nothing wrong with a purely oldies scene par se, and by all means keep your Wigan reunions, go to your oldies soul nights and your supermarkets, relive your youth and listen to the same stuff week in week out, but stay away from the rare and rarely played soul scene please because you are slowly strangling it to death.

If i have to listen to another miserable, moaning, bloody oldies lover who can't read a flyer properly

[Guest Simon]

still good luck to russ if he can still earn a bob or two and who knows it might introduce a few to the scene who have never been before

kev

I hope it don't introduce any to the scene, they'll have the wrong impression of what NS is about from the off.

Russ has it spot on, get yourself down to real venues to support some real soul people not this faded NS dream.

Simon

[Guest Matt Male]

I hope it don't introduce any to the scene, they'll have the wrong impression of what NS is about from the off.

Russ has it spot on, get yourself down to real venues to support some real soul people not this faded NS dream.

Simon

Exactly Simon. Well said.

[Dave Moore]

Bunch of hypocrits............do what ya like, but dont even begin to pretend this is part of any kinda NS scene, I personally find it absolutely cringe worthy & if any of my divvy mates, asked me about it, I would do a 'Judas'........its totally embarrassing to anyone who even has a tentative grasp of what Northern & Rare Soul is about...............I dont want to get into some long drawn out debate again over the same old sh*t, but you lot should be getting ya selfs to a propper Allnighter some where instead of this pathetic dross. You're sad & have lost the way NS wise IMHO. Still each to their own & have a good time, personally I would rather drip sulphuric acid down mi japs eye.

Russ

Then it's a bloody good job you'll be dancin (prancin'?) about on the Decks/Dancefloor with us on the Meditteranean beach then that weekend eh? He He! Who needs cafes in Wigan when we've got the soul, sand, sea, sangria as an option for that weekend. Oh...and the 100 Club Anniversary. Yer spoilt fer choice you lot!

Did you get in touch with our Kid?

[Reg]

All I can say is that I didn't get into rare soul to dance in shopping centres. Shopping Centres bring me out in a cold sweat at the best of times (I'm not a typical female shopaholic...think girl version of Roy Cropper for my dress sense)...I know that it's hard to keep the soul scene as exclusive and "cool" as it used to be when we were all teenagers but I still think I'm still living and breathing enough to actually turn up somewhere resembling a licensed premises

And no I didn't go to Wigan (too young) but what has that got to do with anything? What has dancing outside Burtons got to do with the Casino? I don't understand why anybody hasn't got anything better to do on a Saturday night with at least 30 other nights on

[Russ Vickers]

Then it's a bloody good job you'll be dancin (prancin'?) about on the Decks/Dancefloor with us on the Meditteranean beach then that weekend eh? He He! Who needs cafes in Wigan when we've got the soul, sand, sea, sangria as an option for that weekend. Oh...and the 100 Club Anniversary. Yer spoilt fer choice you lot!

Did you get in touch with our Kid?

Yes, your sooooooooooooooo right Dave, just read my post back & I am genuinely sorry if I have offended anyone, it was a bit of an immediate reaction post, if I had of thought I would have realised I shouldnt get involved in this kinda thing, it just makes my blood boil that some one might asscotiate me with this kinda thing, due to my passion for soul music & it genuinely embarrasses me. That weekend we have Revolution on Friday, 100 Club Anniversary Saturday & of course the infamous Hitsville Weekender, as well as numerous other authentic soul nights, do the scene a favour, invest in the future of the real Rare Soul scene & PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, I beg of you attend a propper NS Allnighter instead of lining the pockets of an old has been, by perputating the myth of the Casino...........stop & think why you first got involved & then wonder what this event has got to do with it.

Russ

BTW Dave, yep, contacted Kev via email, nothing back yet.........could you PM or email me his number please mate.

Edited September 6, 2008 by Russ Vickers

[Pete S]

Yes, your sooooooooooooooo right Dave, just read my post back & I am genuinely sorry if I have offended anyone, it was a bit of an immediate reaction post, if I had of thought I would have realised I shouldnt get involved in this kinda thing, it just makes my blood boil that some one might asscotiate me with this kinda thing, due to my passion for soul music & it genuinely embarrasses me. That weekend we have Revolution on Friday, 100 Club Anniversary Saturday & of course the infamous Hitsville Weekender, as well as numerous other authentic soul nights, do the scene a favour, invest in the future of the real Rare Soul scene & PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, I beg of you attend a propper NS Allnighter instead of lining the pockets of an old has been, by perputating the myth of the Casino...........stop & think why you first got involved & then wonder what this event has got to do with it.

Russ

BTW Dave, yep, contacted Kev via email, nothing back yet.........could you PM or email me his number please mate.

Russ - there is also the pilgrimage aspect. I've never been back since it closed but I very nearly did last year. Just to get a bit of that magic back. Until I realised it would be inside a shopping centre that is.

[Jez Jones]

What bothers me is that this purpetuates the existance of the 'overplayed oldies only' crowd as a part of the wider rare soul scene. They attend venues like this and oldies nights etc... and then they turn up to 'across the board' and progressive nights and moan about the music policy and ask for oldies all night, forcing the DJs to alter music policy because 80% of the punters haven't read the flyer properly (and the poor DJs feel obliged to play to the floor) or just roll up to every soul night expecting expecting to hear the same thing week in week out.

They aren't prepared to dance to anything they haven't heard before, or give any new sounds a chance (and it's not even a 60s, 70s, Y2K issue either). Personally i wish they would just clear off and form their own nostalgia scene now, even take the words 'northern soul' with them if they like. I never thought i would ever be ashamed to be associated with the term northern soul, but it seems to just mean 'overplayed oldies only' to the majority these days and personally for me the existance of the Overplayed Oldies Only crowd is starting to ruin the scene for me. It feels like 70% of the Northern Soul scene is just stagnant and will be that way for ever; the trouble is it's starting to pollute everything else.

Nothing wrong with a purely oldies scene par se, and by all means keep your Wigan reunions, go to your oldies soul nights and your supermarkets, relive your youth and listen to the same stuff week in week out, but stay away from the rare and rarely played soul scene please because you are slowly strangling it to death.

If i have to listen to another miserable, moaning, bloody oldies lover who can't read a flyer properly

I know, poor sods hey?

[Russ Vickers]

Russ - there is also the pilgrimage aspect. I've never been back since it closed but I very nearly did last year. Just to get a bit of that magic back. Until I realised it would be inside a shopping centre that is.

I know Pete, loved Wigan too, its not about saying WC was crap, it wasnt, for me it was my first wonderful experience of a NS Allnighter almost, its just cheapening the memory for me & also the fact that, its also about hearing new exciting tunes, exactly why most went to WC in the first place. But as you know you can never recreate anything as it was, I feel sorry for the people travelling from Aus.....hope this isnt the only reason for visiting the UK.

BTW Once on the way back from Tony's in Blackburn years ago, got off the train at Wigan & walked up to the 'hallowed' ground, hadnt been since it closed & I never wanted to go back again........ever, but that was my private moment or pilgimmage maybe you could call it, so Im not entirely without a fondness for the old place, its just that its over. Do you think they wear Spencers & vests etc.............

Russ

Edited September 6, 2008 by Russ Vickers

[Gogger]

What bothers me is that this purpetuates the existance of the 'overplayed oldies only' crowd as a part of the wider rare soul scene. They attend venues like this and oldies nights etc... and then they turn up to 'across the board' and progressive nights and moan about the music policy and ask for oldies all night, forcing the DJs to alter music policy because 80% of the punters haven't read the flyer properly (and the poor DJs feel obliged to play to the floor) or just roll up to every soul night expecting expecting to hear the same thing week in week out.

They aren't prepared to dance to anything they haven't heard before, or give any new sounds a chance (and it's not even a 60s, 70s, Y2K issue either). Personally i wish they would just clear off and form their own nostalgia scene now, even take the words 'northern soul' with them if they like. I never thought i would ever be ashamed to be associated with the term northern soul, but it seems to just mean 'overplayed oldies only' to the majority these days and personally for me the existance of the Overplayed Oldies Only crowd is starting to ruin the scene for me. It feels like 70% of the Northern Soul scene is just stagnant and will be that way for ever; the trouble is it's starting to pollute everything else.

Nothing wrong with a purely oldies scene par se, and by all means keep your Wigan reunions, go to your oldies soul nights and your supermarkets, relive your youth and listen to the same stuff week in week out, but stay away from the rare and rarely played soul scene please because you are slowly strangling it to death.

If i have to listen to another miserable, moaning, bloody oldies lover who can't read a flyer properly

i think they should advertise soul nights as a rare soul night these days,a lot of people see the term northern soul and think wigan,especially the so called oldies lovers,can see your point of view to an extent though.ps i like all kinds of soul,some i like some i don't i took my blinkers of years ago.enjoy your soul.

[Guest Soultown andy]

Bunch of hypocrits............do what ya like, but dont even begin to pretend this is part of any kinda NS scene, I personally find it absolutely cringe worthy & if any of my divvy mates, asked me about it, I would do a 'Judas'........its totally embarrassing to anyone who even has a tentative grasp of what Northern & Rare Soul is about...............I dont want to get into some long drawn out debate again over the same old sh*t, but you lot should be getting ya selfs to a propper Allnighter some where instead of this pathetic dross. You're sad & have lost the way NS wise IMHO. Still each to their own & have a good time, personally I would rather drip sulphuric acid down mi japs eye.

Russ

Spot on russ,have no problem with russ or anyone else running anniversary nites went to the casino myself and for me it was the best niter there has or will ever be,and to celebrate it like this is a complete piss take.It s no wonder parts of this scene are looked at by outsiders with disbelife,anyone watching this fiasco unfold would piss themselves.If you want to do revivals anniversarys or whatever at least give them the credability they deserve.

[Guest Matt Male]

Russ - there is also the pilgrimage aspect. I've never been back since it closed but I very nearly did last year. Just to get a bit of that magic back. Until I realised it would be inside a shopping centre that is.

You're right Pete. This supermarket thing has nothing to do with music and all about nostalgia, otherwise why would it be in a cafe filled with memorabilia. I think for those who go it's about remembering the 70s and their youth, the fashions and the era, it's bugger all to do with the current rare soul scene.

[Jez Jones]

Spot on russ,have no problem with russ or anyone else running anniversary nites went to the casino myself and for me it was the best niter there has or will ever be,and to celebrate it like this is a complete piss take.It s no wonder parts of this scene are looked at by outsiders with disbelife,anyone watching this fiasco unfold would piss themselves.If you want to do revivals anniversarys or whatever at least give them the credability they deserve.

Yes Andy yer not wrong. I,ve mentioned this on another thread. Why can't they 'lump' it all together in the King George's at Blackburn the following week and just have the one celebration where everyone could go and dance ,whatever in a venue that is something like. Its probably politics stopping that happening , but at the end of the day why have 2.

Not many celebrate xmas twice ----no-one could afford and it would lose its meaning and special qualities----So perhaps for the next anniversary we could just have one good 'un hey?

[Dave Thorley]

The whole thing is a bit of a farce. Half the key DJ's from this great club don't speak to each other anymore, different people with little to do with the venue running Wigan re-union nites. Shame someone can't find a nice venue knock all their heads together and do a great one-off Wigan re-union, with Richard, Kev, Russ, Keith, Dave and some of the Mr M's lads all together.

Edited September 6, 2008 by Dave Thorley

[Guest Soultown andy]

Im afraid that wont happen jez richard and russ have been at each others throats for years .

[Dave Thorley]

The whole thing is a bit of a farce. Half the key DJ's from this great club don't speak to each other anymore, different people with little to do with the venue running Wigan re-union nites. Shame someone can't find a nice venue knock all their heads together and do a great one-off Wigan re-union, with Richard, Kev, Russ, Keith, Dave and some of the Mr M's lads all together.

Then to make it even more authentic, get some of the original record dealers along, get the lady from the coffee bar (If she's still alive) and maybe even Ian Levine handing Richard records from behind the curtain to play.

[Guest SteveC]

Bunch of hypocrits............do what ya like, but dont even begin to pretend this is part of any kinda NS scene, I personally find it absolutely cringe worthy & if any of my divvy mates, asked me about it, I would do a 'Judas'........its totally embarrassing to anyone who even has a tentative grasp of what Northern & Rare Soul is about...............I dont want to get into some long drawn out debate again over the same old sh*t, but you lot should be getting ya selfs to a propper Allnighter some where instead of this pathetic dross. You're sad & have lost the way NS wise IMHO. Still each to their own & have a good time, personally I would rather drip sulphuric acid down mi japs eye.

Russ

oh, i thought we could go late night shopping, like you wanted...

[Barry]

think they should advertise soul nights as a rare soul night these days

Good point - although it seems to me that a lot of people are happy saying that they are part of the 'Northern Soul' scene to 'excluded others' - as the normal world can associate with the term.

Does the term 'Rare Soul Scene' have the same appeal when it comes to bragging rights?

Edited September 7, 2008 by Barry

[Barry]

Is this the first time in NS history that the 'Nighter' scene hasn't jumped on the opportunity to re-brand itself, or certain sounds played within it at least?

Is the reason that it hasn't (maybe), because it cannot?

The 'rare soul' comment I responded to above holds some weight with me; as regards todays scene that is.

Would the loss of the term 'Northern Soul' lessen the current scene's impact to the outside world?

After all, history is bunk; true?

Surely ridding the world of the term 'Northern Soul' is unthinkable to some degree!?

Or is it?

[Guest]

Is this the first time in NS history that the 'Nighter' scene hasn't jumped on the opportunity to re-brand itself, or certain sounds played within it at least?

Is the reason that it hasn't (maybe), because it cannot?

The 'rare soul' comment I responded to above holds some weight with me; as regards todays scene that is.

Would the loss of the term 'Northern Soul' lessen the current scene's impact to the outside world?

After all, history is bunk; true?

Surely ridding the world of the term 'Northern Soul' is unthinkable to some degree!?

Or is it?

I very much doubt that we will ever see the term " Northern Soul " dropped from use , or association with the scene , as the term has more iconic implications , referring now to a culture than the music involved ........

Malc Burton

Edited September 7, 2008 by Malc Burton

[Barry]

I very much doubt that we will ever see the term " Northern Soul " dropped from use , or association with the scene , as the term has more iconic implications , referring now to a culture than the music involved ........

Malc Burton

My point exactly Malcolm.

Yesterday we had 'slightly salted' Anchor and today we have 'Utterly Butterly'.

At the end of the day, it all makes yer bread moist dunnit?

[Dave]

My point exactly Malcolm.

Yesterday we had 'slightly salted' Anchor and today we have 'Utterly Butterly'.

At the end of the day, it all makes yer bread moist dunnit?

Even more philosophical than usual this morning? I like your analogy.

To expand on it, if I may, the two products you mention correspond to "Across the Board" events.

The latest products, those high in essential fatty acids and low in cholesterol, equate to the "up-front" scene. Many acknowledge the benefits of these, but few actually consume them.

The bread-moistening material that equates to the "northern oldies" events, the corniest and most cheesey of which is the shopping centre debacle... is lard!!!

I have to say I no longer use the term northern soul to describe my musical taste to outsiders as the scene has become stereotyped... same music every week, fancy dress etc etc. It's a shame.

[Casper]

i may be a die hard but......

the term "northern soul" should never be done away with... why should it?

would the world be a better place without, reggae, ska, rock n' roll, punk, house ,rap, garage,indy,and whatever you like.....just because it is not easy to explain to some outsider what "northern soul" is does not mean you can just call it "soul"......you could perhaps find a kind of soul in all of the above if you asked it's devout followers?....for what is soul in reality...?

yes it does put music in a box with a label on it, but does not most things in life have a label, how would you find it or identify if it had not?

i feel sorry that some cannot carry on with the term and feel ashamed....that is true sadness, this is the music that brought us together, blew our minds away....and still i hope does...this is the music of our youth and will last forever in our hearts that age....the music will always make me feel i belong to the people i see week in week out, my family, my "northern soul " family.....i will miss them all when the time comes for me to be gone, as i miss those who have already gone.. i could not turn my self away from what has been such an important part of my life....and my memories..

KTF....Pete n' susan xxxx

[Guest sandi]

What bothers me is that this purpetuates the existance of the 'overplayed oldies only' crowd as a part of the wider rare soul scene. They attend venues like this and oldies nights etc... and then they turn up to 'across the board' and progressive nights and moan about the music policy and ask for oldies all night, forcing the DJs to alter music policy because 80% of the punters haven't read the flyer properly (and the poor DJs feel obliged to play to the floor) or just roll up to every soul night expecting expecting to hear the same thing week in week out.

They aren't prepared to dance to anything they haven't heard before, or give any new sounds a chance (and it's not even a 60s, 70s, Y2K issue either). Personally i wish they would just clear off and form their own nostalgia scene now, even take the words 'northern soul' with them if they like. I never thought i would ever be ashamed to be associated with the term northern soul, but it seems to just mean 'overplayed oldies only' to the majority these days and personally for me the existance of the Overplayed Oldies Only crowd is starting to ruin the scene for me. It feels like 70% of the Northern Soul scene is just stagnant and will be that way for ever; the trouble is it's starting to pollute everything else.

Nothing wrong with a purely oldies scene par se, and by all means keep your Wigan reunions, go to your oldies soul nights and your supermarkets, relive your youth and listen to the same stuff week in week out, but stay away from the rare and rarely played soul scene please because you are slowly strangling it to death.

Here speaketh a true progressive lover of soul music, and l was beginning to think we were a small band of rebels fighting for the greater cause.........oh silly me we are, but we are growing stronger by the day.....Well said mate , nothing wrong with the oldies, were they not new releases once !!!!!! and why all the segregation, pigeon holed crap, oldies ,newies,70's etc etc ?? is'nt soul music soul music??? and how old do records have to be to become oldies ???,

As for RW he's ok, in very small doses, he's another one stuck in the past.......l went to Wigan along side other great venues, l loved everything about the Casino, sticky carpet, awful sound system, flooded toilets, but to me the atmosphere the people the music made it worth while. The last night after the several last nights is how l remember the Casino, the place was knocked down and replaced with shopping centre and car park, to me that is'nt Wigan Casino, and this anniversary held at the shopping centre in my most humble opinion is just a money making venture for the council l presume!!!!!!!

On the whole it was attended by people who never went to Wigan Casino, and that to me gave the wrong impression of what it was like, it's past, let it go, after all was it initially about the building or was it about the soulful music ? lt really upset me when l walked away that morning of Sept 19th 1981, but what upset me when l stopped to think about it was the fact of maybe never seeing friends again l'd made over the years, the music that brought us together in the 1st place in fact the whole package of unity of soul brothers and soul sisters

l think l'm going off on my one woman crusade again, just glad that there are more people out there willing to have their say with true grit and conviction, so once more great post mate, hope it motivates others to voice their hopefully positive opinions.

[Guest Matt Male]

Is this the first time in NS history that the 'Nighter' scene hasn't jumped on the opportunity to re-brand itself, or certain sounds played within it at least?

Is the reason that it hasn't (maybe), because it cannot?

The 'rare soul' comment I responded to above holds some weight with me; as regards todays scene that is.

Would the loss of the term 'Northern Soul' lessen the current scene's impact to the outside world?

After all, history is bunk; true?

Surely ridding the world of the term 'Northern Soul' is unthinkable to some degree!?

Or is it?

Definately time for a rebranding or a division of the brand. Rebranding as you say is fraught with problems, if promoters advertise nights as 'rare soul nights' what does that mean to anyone not on the scene who we'd like to attract? Promoters continue to advertise as Northern Soul because it's a useful and widely known term, unfortunately we still get people turning up thinking it's an oldies night and then pestering the DJs and moaning about the music policy, and refusing to dance to anything they don't have at home on CD (= empty dancefloor).

Easier maybe, but far more risky to leave the term 'northern soul' out of the equation all together, despite the fact that all the music is probably still recognisably 'northern' style dance quality. So, swings and roundabouts, drop 'northern' and risk low attendance and obscurity, or keep the brand name and get the same old oldies fans turning up? Having said that, I don't mind one bit if people into oldies and 'northern soul' turn up and listen with open ears and dance to a few new tunes, Andy Baskett was telling me that northern soulies turn up to Soul Purpose which is essentially Modern Soul and Y2K but they get into it all the same, that's good. What gets on my nerves is people turn up to a rare soul and R&B (underplayed) night and expect to dance to the same old same old, but i suppose that's what you get if you use the loaded term 'northern soul'.

I'm not even saying a different emphasis would be a radical departure in terms of music style. I'm not advocating purely Y2K, or 60s or massive rarities but i would like to recapture all the thousands of forgotten and rarely played dancable rare soul that are never played in 90% of nights and nighters up and down the country. I suppose it's still Northern Soul, it just needs to be differentiated from the mouldy oldie scene.

So yes, very hard, maybe even impossible to let the term go altogether but at the same time it continues to cause some problems.

Matt

[Crumb]

Bunch of hypocrits............do what ya like, but dont even begin to pretend this is part of any kinda NS scene, I personally find it absolutely cringe worthy & if any of my divvy mates, asked me about it, I would do a 'Judas'........its totally embarrassing to anyone who even has a tentative grasp of what Northern & Rare Soul is about...............I dont want to get into some long drawn out debate again over the same old sh*t, but you lot should be getting ya selfs to a propper Allnighter some where instead of this pathetic dross. You're sad & have lost the way NS wise IMHO. Still each to their own & have a good time, personally I would rather drip sulphuric acid down mi japs eye.

Russ

Agree with you up to a point but one thing about these type of do's is they attract old mates out of the woodwork who haven't been a proper nighter/soul night for years. OK once a year but I wouldn't want to go every week.

[Ian Seaman]

i dunno about "rare soul" nights !! i went to one a few weeks ago (won't say where) and it was awfull, playing a bunch of £10 underplayed 70,s and 80,s stuff, stuff i keep at the back of my sales box

I think some people are trying to pull the wool over our eyes and play any old crap because they haven't got any rare soul or don't know what it is !!

At least with RW,s nights you get exactly what it says on the tin, held as close as can be to the original venue !!!! wtf,s wrong with that !!!!! each to there own, it will be packed and they will have a great time, leave them to it and get on with your own life

the term "Northern Soul" aint going anywhere soon !! it will see all of us out of this world !

One thing i do like to see is where promoters actually list on their flyers what they plan to have played, easy peasy for the punters to decide........rare soul or dancing outside superdrug

Ian.

[Guest rachel]

Sandi - can I bring your attention to a couple of points in the Forum rules..

signatures

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[Guest Matt Male]

i dunno about "rare soul" nights !! i went to one a few weeks ago (won't say where) and it was awfull, playing a bunch of £10 underplayed 70,s and 80,s stuff, stuff i keep at the back of my sales box

I think some people are trying to pull the wool over our eyes and play any old crap because they haven't got any rare soul or don't know what it is !!

Ian.

I agree, some stuff is underplayed and forgotten for a very good reason, it's crap.

On the other hand there are thousands of cheap 45s out there that don't get played because they aren't rare enough, although funnily enough never heard out as much as the massive rarities . As usual i suppose it all boils down to a matter of taste but in my opinion price shouldn't be a barrier as to whether something is played or not, it's quality that counts.

I suppose if you play a spot of £10 cheapies, even top quality ones, are you even playing rare soul? Probably not. Maybe the term 'rare' should be dropped? Pure semantics maybe, but how much does it need to be before it can be considered 'rare'?

Can you give us some examples of what was played without naming the venue, just out of interest?

Edited September 7, 2008 by Matt Male

[Guest Brian J]

What bothers me is that this purpetuates the existance of the 'overplayed oldies only' crowd as a part of the wider rare soul scene. They attend venues like this and oldies nights etc... and then they turn up to 'across the board' and progressive nights and moan about the music policy and ask for oldies all night, forcing the DJs to alter music policy because 80% of the punters haven't read the flyer properly (and the poor DJs feel obliged to play to the floor) or just roll up to every soul night expecting expecting to hear the same thing week in week out.

They aren't prepared to dance to anything they haven't heard before, or give any new sounds a chance (and it's not even a 60s, 70s, Y2K issue either). Personally i wish they would just clear off and form their own nostalgia scene now, even take the words 'northern soul' with them if they like. I never thought i would ever be ashamed to be associated with the term northern soul, but it seems to just mean 'overplayed oldies only' to the majority these days and personally for me the existance of the Overplayed Oldies Only crowd is starting to ruin the scene for me. It feels like 70% of the Northern Soul scene is just stagnant and will be that way for ever; the trouble is it's starting to pollute everything else.

Nothing wrong with a purely oldies scene par se, and by all means keep your Wigan reunions, go to your oldies soul nights and your supermarkets, relive your youth and listen to the same stuff week in week out, but stay away from the rare and rarely played soul scene please because you are slowly strangling it to death.

If i have to listen to another miserable, moaning, bloody oldies lover who can't read a flyer properly

Could I just point out a few hypocrisies and contradictions here!

You want the 'oldies' to 'clear off' and start their own nostalgia scene!

Shouldn't that be the other way round? They've been there since day one, the rare scene hasn't. Why should a well established 'brand' make way for a less popular one?

You state that you're 'part of the wider rare soul scene' yet the attendances, (by your figures), are 80% of the punters (oldies) who haven't read the flyer properly'. That doesn't figure. I always thought 80% was larger than the remaining 'wider' 20%!

In another post you state the promoters have to name their night Northern because of attendance issues,

in the same sentence you state they won't dance to what's being played= empty dancefloor.

So in other words, the music must be that crap that even the handful of 'raries' or whatever that attend, won't dance to it either! That' only what I can deduce from what you've written.

I love my soul music, old, new, rare, R&B, modern Y2k et al. I'll dance to anything.

What I don't like is elitist bullshit!

I know exactly where you're coming from and why you feel stifled, but stop it with this condescending attitude towards anyone who doesn't fit your ideals.

Just put a fcukin' big sign on the entrance saying 'rare soul' and what the music policy is, then stick to it.

You'll soon find out how popular your music is.

[Epic]

At least with RW,s nights you get exactly what it says on the tin, held as close as can be to the original venue !!!! wtf,s wrong with that !!!!! each to there own, it will be packed and they will have a great time, leave them to it and get on with your own life

Ian.

Good job they didn't build a golf course,swimming baths or graveyard on the "hallowed" (sic) site.

Northern & rare soul will be better appreciated hopefully,(if at all) when our generation is long gone. The thought of geriatric soul fans celebrating Wigan Casino's 57th anniversary in a shopping mall makes my blood run cold.

Some forward thinking promoter should open a "Northern Soul Retirement Home" where toothless,balding, incontinent (& that's just the women ) old soulies could sit round a piano while "Matron" belts out "Elijah Rocking With Soul" - because "the old dears" like to reminisce.

[Mark Bicknell]

Like I've said before and I don't care who's reading it but if you simply don't like or agree with something connected with the scene, music policy, style, agenda, who's promoting it etc. then again simply don't subscibe to it.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Guest Matt Male]

Could I just point out a few hypocrisies and contradictions here!

You want the 'oldies' to 'clear off' and start their own nostalgia scene!

I specifically called them 'Overplayed Oldies Only' lovers, not people into oldies, i like oldies ffs but there are plenty of people who won't listen to anything new (by new i mean not heard before by them). Do you think we should just carry on playing the same 500 or so records over and over again ad infinitum? I bloody well don't.

Shouldn't that be the other way round? They've been there since day one, the rare scene hasn't. Why should a well established 'brand' make way for a less popular one?

This scene, or most of this scene has moved on and on over the past 25 years but some sections have not. Ok so soul other than overplayed oldies might be less popular, i'm not asking anyone to give up their music taste am i? I'm just asking them not to turn up at venues which don't play music they like and then moan all night because they don't like anything and won't dance to anything. It's not f**king rocket science is it?

You state that you're 'part of the wider rare soul scene' yet the attendances, (by your figures), are 80% of the punters (oldies) who haven't read the flyer properly'. That doesn't figure. I always thought 80% was larger than the remaining 'wider' 20%!

Get it right Brian. I said the oldies only crowd was part of the wider scene, not me. Obviously i haven't done a poll and just estimating figures based on experience. I'm talking 80% at a particular soul night, not of the scene. You misread mate.

In another post you state the promoters have to name their night Northern because of attendance issues, in the same sentence you state they won't dance to what's being played= empty dancefloor.

Yes, obviously it's a contradiction that promoters have to live with, name it norther and get the Oldies Only crowd turn up or don't and get low attendence maybe, like you've already said and i agree with you there are probably more oldies only fans than open minded soulies out there.

So in other words, the music must be that crap that even the handful of 'raries' or whatever that attend, won't dance to it either! That' only what I can deduce from what you've written.

Didn't you know, people into rare soul don't dance, they chin stroke apparently (joking obviously)

I love my soul music, old, new, rare, R&B, modern Y2k et al. I'll dance to anything.

What I don't like is elitist bullshit!

I also like pretty much everything but what is elitist about wanting to play different and rarely played soul as opposed to the same old same old every bloody week? If that's elitist then so be it. Elitist is just a label the oldies only nostalgia crowd throw at anyone who wants something a bit different and it's bollocks quite frankly.

I know exactly where you're coming from and why you feel stifled, but stop it with this condescending attitude towards anyone who doesn't fit your ideals.

I didn't think i was condescending at all, i was just making my point, if anyone disagrees fair enough. As far as i see it the only people who would disagree are those who cling onto the same oldies week in week out, play boots and reissues and are nostalgic about the 70s to the point where they can't move on. I wouldn't want those kind of people coming to a soul night i was DJing at, would you?

Just put a fcukin' big sign on the entrance saying 'rare soul' and what the music policy is, then stick to it.

You'll soon find out how popular your music is.

Good idea

You're a great bloke Brian and someone who has a very wide taste, i've seen you at Stoke, Lifeline and elsewhere. Please don't misunderstand where i'm coming from, this is all frustration at the straightjacket local soul nights find themselves in sometimes. I'm just spouting off some pent up annoyance.

All the best

Matt

Edited September 7, 2008 by Matt Male

[Little-stevie]

Yes Andy yer not wrong. I,ve mentioned this on another thread. Why can't they 'lump' it all together in the King George's at Blackburn the following week and just have the one celebration where everyone could go and dance ,whatever in a venue that is something like. Its probably politics stopping that happening , but at the end of the day why have 2.

Not many celebrate xmas twice ----no-one could afford and it would lose its meaning and special qualities----So perhaps for the next anniversary we could just have one good 'un hey?

Yes.. Get Mr Wigan and Sir Richard to do a joint promotion ...

I don't think they send each other xmas cards anymore and it could cause friction... ...

But.... I would pay at the door to see these two double decking ...

Just have the Greggs special and the other place in Blackburn, all have fun...

I did go to the anniversary in Wigan about 3 years ago, got a free ticket and was looking forward to it... Was just getting out of the car in carpark just over the road from the nightclub??? can't remember the name??? it was that night that was live on the radio...

A bloke came bounding over to me dressed in soul vest with patches a plenty and original sweat stains, enough flare in the pants to curtain the town hall... I thought it was gonna be a warm welcome, he told me" what the f*** are you doing here, you did not go to Wigan" .. What a start to the night i said...

I did carry on after wiping the pie and spit off my coat.. Had a ok time, i knew what to expect music wise... It was a bit tacky in this night club with toooooooooo many flashing lights and glitz but still a million miles better than doing the boogaloo outside Greggs i guess....

If you don't look old enough to have gone to Wigan then watch out for this guy.. He will be lurking ..

I'm with Mr Vickers but aint gonna drip any of that stuff on my bits...

Love and peace xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[barney]

Could I just point out a few hypocrisies and contradictions here!

You want the 'oldies' to 'clear off' and start their own nostalgia scene!

Shouldn't that be the other way round? They've been there since day one, the rare scene hasn't. Why should a well established 'brand' make way for a less popular one?

You state that you're 'part of the wider rare soul scene' yet the attendances, (by your figures), are 80% of the punters (oldies) who haven't read the flyer properly'. That doesn't figure. I always thought 80% was larger than the remaining 'wider' 20%!

In another post you state the promoters have to name their night Northern because of attendance issues,

in the same sentence you state they won't dance to what's being played= empty dancefloor.

So in other words, the music must be that crap that even the handful of 'raries' or whatever that attend, won't dance to it either! That' only what I can deduce from what you've written.

I love my soul music, old, new, rare, R&B, modern Y2k et al. I'll dance to anything.

What I don't like is elitist bullshit!

I know exactly where you're coming from and why you feel stifled, but stop it with this condescending attitude towards anyone who doesn't fit your ideals.

Just put a fcukin' big sign on the entrance saying 'rare soul' and what the music policy is, then stick to it.

You'll soon find out how popular your music is.

one ofthe best and most incise post,s I have read on here,for too long I and many others have paid good money and travelled many miles to venues with mouthwatering anticipation only to have it ruined by dj,s who want to indulge themselves with their record collection, paying no heed to us punters ,playing god and dictating wots good for us ,hence tumbleweed blowing across the dancefloor. imho northern soul is about the music the punters love and not neccesarily what dj,s promoters ,and dealers think we want ,

[Guest Brian J]

You're a great bloke Brian and someone who has a very wide taste, i've seen you at Stoke, Lifeline and elsewhere. Please don't misunderstand where i'm coming from, this is all frustration at the straightjacket local soul nights find themselves in sometimes. I'm just spouting off some pent up annoyance.

All the best

Matt

Appreciated Matt. Like I said, I understand where you're coming from,

it was the way you worded it that evoked my response.

Good luck in all you do, I still love you!

[Guest Matt Male]

I and many others have paid good money and travelled many miles to venues with mouthwatering anticipation only to have it ruined by dj,s who want to indulge themselves with their record collection, paying no heed to us punters ,playing god and dictating wots good for us ,hence tumbleweed blowing across the dancefloor. imho northern soul is about the music the punters love and not neccesarily what dj,s promoters ,and dealers think we want ,

Agree completely and this is obviously the other side of the coin. All i would say again is, punters read the flyers and promoters don't lie about what your night is all about. Sounds simple...

In my post i wasn't saying, call it an oldies night, pack it with oldies lovers and then play forgotten and obscure sounds on local labels from the states all night. I'm calling for honesty from promoters and for punters to not moan if a night isn't what they thought it would be, despite what they read on the flyer.

It's an old one, but at the end of the day every DJ has to play to the dancefloor, it's rule one in my book, but the floor to my mind also has a responsibility to be open minded about what's being played.

Am i making myself clear?

[Reforee]

There was a time that this scene of ours called "Northern" brought people together, sadly from what I have read on this forum and have heard at other venues, it is more divided then it every was. Most of us have got older and we should have got wiser, it would appear from posts not only on this thread but others that this is not the case, NS lovers seem to be less tolerent and more self opinionated then ever before.

Personally I put it down to peoples ego's. If someone is picked for a spot at a venue the knockers/backstabbers are out and on about what he is going to play or has played. If a promotor puts on an event the knockers/backstabbers are out again....and guess what the knockers/backstabbers are from within our scene. There was a time when it was the police/council et al trying to stop our enjoyment now its ourselves. WE will be to blame for our own downfall, we are imploding because we do not tolerate things outside our own perspective of what OUR music is.

Let me pass this scenerio at you. If you stop Oldies/nostalgia/reunions etc completely, then those soul fans who want that type of soul music will have nowhere to go. So the progressive style venues who wish to play underplayed/new discoveries and dare I say new releases will be swamped by those same people (who you seem not to want) because they want to dictate the type of music being played, by sheer numbers on the floor or not, as the case maybe. If they have oldies nights then thats where they will be, then so be it, you can stay away, no need to comment really, go elsewhere. I dont like heavy metal but i dont go around moanin about it.

I have had some great nites where the attendance has been low, thats mainly because the few souls that are there are like minded soul fans and its not about whos got the biggest venue, attendance or even most valuable records, its about the music and thats whats its all about.

It used to take a good year at least to get a new venue off the ground and get the soul fans in from around the country, mainly due to the music policy, hard work and dedication by the promoter and the DJs, nowadays it seems they want instant success and at times the methods adopted to slag off other venues so as to promote their own leave a bitter taste in my mouth, because we are supposed to be soul fans with a common bond, sadly in the main I think that has now been lost.

Reunions etc are not really my cup of tea, but hey!!! wheres the harm. No need to get shirty and slag people off. Just stay away.

Right I've got that off my chest, I'm off to watch the para olympics and watch people enjoy themselves.

The Man In Black (aka Dave Halsall)

[Mark R]

Having been confronted by the ad for this on the back of the latest Manifesto this morning, it got me thinking, and it's just so EMBARRASING, and IMHO is the exact opposite of respecting the old venue.

What the hell must average people think?

Wigan Casino 35th Anniversary.........give me a break!!

For those that went and enjoyed (not me...too young....wish I could of!), let them remember it how it was, and just get on with what is good about todays soul scene.

Cheers,

Mark R

[Guest Matt Male]

There was a time that this scene of ours called "Northern" brought people together, sadly from what I have read on this forum and have heard at other venues, it is more divided then it every was. Most of us have got older and we should have got wiser, it would appear from posts not only on this thread but others that this is not the case, NS lovers seem to be less tolerent and more self opinionated then ever before.

Very pessimistic post mate. We're just having a discussion as far as i see it. Nothing wrong with opinions and after all that's what this forum is for? I'd rather have a discussion about the future of the scene than three thousand posts between Ian Levine and someone else slagging each other off. Wouldn't you?

[Guest Matt Male]

Let me pass this scenerio at you. If you stop Oldies/nostalgia/reunions etc completely, then those soul fans who want that type of soul music will have nowhere to go. So the progressive style venues who wish to play underplayed/new discoveries and dare I say new releases will be swamped by those same people (who you seem not to want) because they want to dictate the type of music being played, by sheer numbers on the floor or not, as the case maybe.

The Man In Black (aka Dave Halsall)

That's my point exactly. Nice one Dave.

[Guest sarahleen]

as someone who went to wigan, various other nighters in the 80s and has just returned to the "scene" im dying to say something as i feel i have a fresh perspective on what its like now as compared to "then".

problem is IM TOO BLOODY SCARED TO SAY ANYTHING .LOL

[Mark R]

Some forward thinking promoter should open a "Northern Soul Retirement Home" where toothless,balding, incontinent (& that's just the women ) old soulies could sit round a piano while "Matron" belts out "Elijah Rocking With Soul" - because "the old dears" like to reminisce.

Epic, you been talking to our mutual friend Pete Mason??

Cheers,

Mark R

[Guest Matt Male]

as someone who went to wigan, various other nighters in the 80s and has just returned to the "scene" im dying to say something as i feel i have a fresh perspective on what its like now as compared to "then".

problem is IM TOO BLOODY SCARED TO SAY ANYTHING .LOL

Aw come on. We're all friends here.