Hello,

don´t know whether this has been already discussed or not, but...

I have recently read a fantastic book called "love saves the day" which is actually a truly well documented and passionate "history" on the american disco scene, let´s say from ´70 until ´79.

What surprised me the most is that, according to the book, the first "proper" djs (selecters who could actually mix records creating a proper atmosphere) in New York appeared in the late 60´s courtesy of italian-americans like francis grasso and michael cappello.

Until then people were going to small clubs (or discotheques - a concept which had been "imported" from France) where the main source of music were either live bands or juke-boxes and occasionally the odd dj who would spin some recs without even trying to create a flow or some kind of atmosphere.

how about the uk? who were the first "proper" djs to spin records on 2 separate record players and when would you say it first started? I am not talking about proper mixing, just djs who would try and create an emotional atmosphere a proper musical flow for the dancers.

Thanx for taking the time to read and (hopefully) answer this.

Giulio

Edited August 25, 200816 yr by soulfuljules

sheffields John Vincent must have been one of the first - early 60s at either the Esquire or the Black Cat (can't remember which book has a picture of him in cueing up)

Ron Diggins.

Started in 1947, Boston, Lincs.

Legend!

  Sean Hampsey said:

Ron Diggins.

Started in 1947, Boston, Lincs.

Legend!

Ok!

might not have been that clear, but i was actually referring to the first r&b/soul-related djs.

1947 sounds quite early to me, can´t even imagine how you could possibly do that back then, let alone queing up... what kind of equipment was he using back then... and most important... what kind of records??

  soulfuljules said:

Ok!

might not have been that clear, but i was actually referring to the first r&b/soul-related djs.

1947 sounds quite early to me, can´t even imagine how you could possibly do that back then, let alone queing up... what kind of equipment was he using back then... and most important... what kind of records??

you can cue up 78's .....i do anyway

How the Nazis gave us disco

Last Updated: 12:01am BST 12/08/2006 The Times

A French wartime subculture gave rise to the modern DJ, says Frank Broughton

Exactly 100 years ago, by broadcasting Handel to some very surprised ships' radio operators, Canadian inventor Reginald Fessenden became the world's first DJ.

Most think of DJs as mere entertainers, players piggybacking on other people's talent. We argue that the DJ is central to the story of popular music - that as taste-maker and musical gatekeeper, he has been the main motive force in its evolution. By championing the obscure, by importing and cross-pollinating different styles, and by gleefully splintering recorded sound in ways that have horrified musicians, the DJ has been music's most ardent revolutionary.

Research for the new edition took in acid house, the births of drum and bass and UK garage, and the strange Galapagos Islands of dance music which blossomed in mainland Europe when disco dried up. But for me most pressing was the part of our story that was slipping from living memory: the birth of the modern nightclub in Paris. Exactly why does the discoth¨que bear a French name? Tracing the answer took us all the way back to smoky cellars in occupied Paris. It also revealed one of the most bizarre youth movements in history.

Imagine, amid the grey serge of wartime France, a tribe of youngsters with all the colourful decadence of punks or teddy boys. Wearing zoot suits cut off at the knee (the better to show off their brightly coloured socks), with hair sculpted into grand quiffs, and shoes with triple-height soles - looking like glam-rock footwear 30 years early - these were the kids who would lay the foundations of nightclubbing. Ladies and gentlemen, les Zazous.

The Zazou look was completed with high collars, impossibly tight ties and long sheepskin-lined jackets, with a curved-handled umbrella carried at all times (copied from British prime minister Neville Chamberlain, regarded as quite a style icon). Female Zazous wore short skirts, shabby furs, wooden platform shoes and dark glasses with big lenses, and chose to go hatless, to better show off the single lock of hair they had bleached or dyed. They took their name from the Cab Calloway-style scatting in a song Je Suis Swing, by their hero, French jazz singer Johnny Hess.

Like peacock versions of Hamburg's swing kids, the Zazous thrived in opposition to the Nazis' hatred of jazz. When Goebbels issued edicts banning the "rhythms of belly-dancing negroes", the remnants of Montmartre's jazz community were deported, interned, or at very least unemployed. The scene that had raised Josephine Baker to legend resorted to home-grown musicians playing US jazz standards, renamed on programmes to fool the censors.

While the adults skirted the Nazi regulations, their younger counterparts favoured far more public defiance. Raising a finger to the world, the Zazous would shout "Swing", give a little hop, then cry out, "Zazou hey, hey, hey, za Zazou!," followed by three slaps on the hip, two shrugs of the shoulder and a turn of the head. Not surprisingly, Zazous were regular targets for the boot-boys of the collaborationist Vichy government, suffering organised beatings, having their heads shaved and being cast out to sweat in the fields.

As the pogroms began, some Zazous went even further and took to wearing yellow stars of David to show solidarity with the Jews. To underline their outlaw musical taste, they wrote "swing" across them. Several found themselves in internment camps as a result. Even stranger, when liberation was imminent, female Zazous blacked up their faces to show their love for jazz and America.

Crucially, it was the Zazous who gave Paris its enduring taste for dancing in cellars to records. Unable to congregate openly, they took their precious swing 78s underground, for les bals clandestins in cafs off the Champs-°lyses or in the Latin Quarter. There, they would throw English slang at each other, swap American novels and jitterbug to all hours.

In Paris, les Zazous remain a potent symbol of resistance - against both the Nazis and the stuffiness of an older generation. They were also the first club kids. After the liberation, Eddie Barclay, wartime jazz pianist, legendary lounge lizard and founder of the French record industry, followed their example and established the first nightclub to dispense with live music. So while the precise etymology of discoth¨que has so far defied discovery, we know that the concept of an intimate underground record club is ours thanks to the Third Reich and the jazz-loving layabouts who defied it.

  Dundeedavie2 said:

you can cue up 78's .....i do anyway

so,

were you one of the pioneers?

just kidding...

  soulfuljules said:

so,

were you one of the pioneers?

just kidding...

yes but i'm not saying what of

  soulfuljules said:

Ok!

might not have been that clear, but i was actually referring to the first r&b/soul-related djs.

1947 sounds quite early to me, can´t even imagine how you could possibly do that back then, let alone queing up... what kind of equipment was he using back then... and most important... what kind of records??

diggins digola will try and find the photo recently just retired

kev

A couple of early UK R&B/Soul Djs can think of off hand

Guy Stevens - The Scene

Roger Eagle - Twisted Wheel

  Dundeedavie2 said:

yes but i'm not saying what of

according to jimmy saville he was the first dj to use 2 turntables early 60's.

mark

Edited August 25, 200816 yr by mark.b

https://www.bostonstandard.co.uk/googlesear...ds=diggins%20dj

disco started in lincs

kev

I think i recall Dave Haslam's book "Advetures on the wheels of steel:the rise of the superstar DJ" suggesting Jimmy Saville pioneered the use of two turntables at his dance hall sessions in Leeds during early1950s? (p46)

  mark.b said:

according to jimmy saville he was the first dj to use 2 turntables early 60's.

mark

THIS IS WHAT I AM LEAD TO BELIEVE AS WELL

  wazz said:

THIS IS WHAT I AM LEAD TO BELIEVE AS WELL

even earlier than i thought according to his bio

Savile was effectively the first ever DJ; according to his autobiography, the first person to use two turntables and a microphone, which he did at the Grand Records Ball at the Guardbridge Hotel in 1947.[2] Indeed, Savile is widely acknowledged as being one of the first in England to use twin turntables for continuous play of music, thus pioneering the concept of DJing as we know it today.[3]

mark

Goodness gracious guys and gals

  kevinsoulman said:

https://www.bostonstandard.co.uk/googlesear...ds=diggins%20dj

disco started in lincs

kev

Wasnt Lincolnshire still part of the North Sea in 1947?

  mark.b said:

according to jimmy saville he was the first dj to use 2 turntables early 60's.

mark

thats what saville thinks , i believe the guy who 1st did this was from lincs and upto 4/5 years ago he was still doing mobile disco he was about 7ot something then ( it was on the television at the time )

Rob

  kevinsoulman said:

https://www.bostonstandard.co.uk/googlesear...ds=diggins%20dj

disco started in lincs

kev

thats the one

Have a book which has got a pic of Alan Freed at an R'n'B show in the 50s with a two-deck set-up which looks not a million miles away from what DJs use today. If I can get the scanner to work I may put it up!

What is it with you lot!

I gave you the answer in Post 3.

Ron Diggins of Boston, Lincs.

Here's a pic of his Double Decks.

But if you mean first 'proper' Soul DJ... probably Pete Stringfellow...

...and he's still got the Mullett to prove it!

Sean

  richard said:

A couple of early UK R&B/Soul Djs can think of off hand

Guy Stevens - The Scene

Roger Eagle - Twisted Wheel

Some interesting stuff on t'internet about Roger Eagles and his influence on early soul in the North West . well worth a google

i think the original article mentioned in the first post is a bit confused - Francis Grasso etc were the first deejays to try and beat-mix records, which developed into the NY disco scene, but quite a few people had been using two turntables before then as suggested in this thread...

the Frank Broughton & Bill Brewster book 'Last Night a DJ Saved My Life' covers a lot of this, plenty of interviews with various pioneers. the Dave Haslam book came out later (and mainly covers the 90s super club scene), and he probably pinched the Jimmy Saville bit from them!

Edited August 26, 200816 yr by michael-j

  Sean Hampsey said:

Ron Diggins.

Started in 1947, Boston, Lincs.

Legend!

Two years before you and Mr Burton started then

  michael-j said:

i think the original article mentioned in the first post is a bit confused - Francis Grasso etc were the first deejays to try and beat-mix records, which developed into the NY disco scene, but quite a few people had been using two turntables before then as suggested in this thread...

yeah you´re right. didn´t know how to put "beat-mix" in english, but what i was actually interested in is to know whether before let´s say 1968 (that´s more or less when the club dj -as we mean it today - first appeared in the us, according to LoveSavestheDay) djs in the uk were playing (roughly) in the same way we are now used to hearing them at clubs.

so i guess the answer is yes

  ElGeePee said:

Have a book which has got a pic of Alan Freed at an R'n'B show in the 50s with a two-deck set-up which looks not a million miles away from what DJs use today. If I can get the scanner to work I may put it up!

Here we go...