Ian Levine, Motorcity, Centre City, Blackpool Mecca, And Swons

[Guest]

What are you on about "so no payment has gone out"?

I will say it one more time - royalty payments HAVE BEEN PAID to the songwriters. In some cases the songwriters are also the artists, in some cases they are not.

Ian put most of the money in to SWONS and by making the decision to make it so ambitious with 131 artists it meant he accepted he would be unlikely to ever make a profit. That was not bad or good business, rather he thought he would invest in something he believed in and if it did not make a profit that would be one of those things. The artists were never ever misled and told to expect to earn anything from SWONS, but we did the right thing and they were given a contract that if it did make a profit then 50% of that profit would be split pro-rata between them.

How can you have a problem with that?

You even gave a thousand dollars to the Dells, out of your own pocket.

[Prophonics 2029]

A long long long long long long long way. I have sixty six thousand pounds in unrecouped costs still to recover, which is still part of my mortgage, which is about to shoot up in November when the fixed rate runs out, so I have probably now doubled the amount over the last ten years in compound interest that I borrowed to make the bloody thing in the first place.

I'm not sure I like your preaching.

Get a better accountant its a wonder your not on income support.

I can imagine took months even years of hard slow work to track these people down, time to film, flight costs, editing costs, backing track costs, manufacture and distribution yes a big big risk.

[Guest]

It sound like a very big IF to get to your 50o/o figure. As I say over this thread stuff has been said and it could be that in anger some key points may have been missed out.

The Guardian did a huge two page spread on SWONS in July 1999, the week it launched, and pictured loads of the artists.

The artists got exposure they had never dreamed of before, and all got something good out of it.

Pat Lewis was over here and was interviewed in person for it.

Many artists who performed for SWONS are now not with us any more. Would you rather the ones that died had done so unrecognised ??

Unknown to me, when Tommy Ridgley performed "My Love Goes Stronger", he was riddled with cancer and died exactly four weeks later, after filming it.

He dragged himself out of his sick bed because, as he told Irma Thomas privately, he wanted a legacy he could leave behind, to be remembered, and because of that wonderful performance, he is.

No-one from England had ever shown him the slightest attention and it thrilled him that people might get a chance to watch him perform, something that was his whole life.

That is worth far more to me than this whole page of your now frankly irritating posts.

[Guest Bogue]

The new set will be much better as far as all the videos look.

But it is not and never will be emant to replace SWONS. It is meant to complement it.

SWONS has 400 interviews with everyone from Tony Cummings and Dave Godin, to Adi Croasdell and Mark Bicknell.

The new 200 video box set is just a greatest hits song package all remade to look wonderful and fresh and new.

People should have both, not one at the expense of the other.

SWONS has Roger Eagle, Tony Petherbridge, Alan Smith, Dave Godin, Martyn Ellis, all giving fascinating interviews, and they've all gone now too.

Must admit I need to get it out again & give it another viewing Remember Pete telling me I ought to watch it again without listening to the music at the same time & it becomes a really good document of the scene through the era's in it's own right .

Anyhow i'm off to bed now, goodnight & good luck

[Prophonics 2029]

The more you spout, the deeper your hole gets, as you clearly haven't grasped the reality of making a project like this.

If you don't like the way we did it, then you go off and do better, and then come back and compare notes.

I never said it was crap no and one can do better.

[Guest]

So its not the same for video as when a record is dubbed from a disc or from a master tape for a CD Release.

You CANNOT put a record on a CD for release without owning the rights. It's called piracy.

To acquire these rights costs money.

Universal want five grand to licence out Frank Wilson, ever since it was on a KFC ad.

You wanna donate that five grand ?? And then what happens after three years when the rights expire ?? You wanna pay it again to renew the licence ???

[Guest]

So its not possible to get a UK & USA recorders and plug them in to do a few home tapes.

No it bloody well isn't.

[Guest]

Get a better accountant its a wonder your not on income support.

I can imagine took months even years of hard slow work to track these people down, time to film, flight costs, editing costs, backing track costs, manufacture and distribution yes a big big risk.

It was a labour of love.

Now get over it.

[Prophonics 2029]

You must be a Thatcherite who believes everything has to be profit driven and nothing else is important?.

Why are you focusing on the artists getting a share of the profit for their performances when as I have tried to explain once the decision was taken to make the project so ambitious there never ever was likely to be a profit - it had become, whether you like it or not, a labour of love. The artists did not do it because they were promised money, they wanted to be remembered and their performances preserved for posterity.

But one of the on going costs were royalties earned by the songwriters for every sale and these have been paid.

I think you are getting me mixed up with James Trouble. I am not he.

I really don't know what you are talking about or presuming what I am thinking, Profit driven, If I like it or not, I don't see why you have to bring your business on to a Soul Forum.

Edited September 6, 2008 by Prophonics 2029

[Guest]

Anyhow i'm off to bed now, goodnight & good luck

I bloody need it after THIS page.

[Ady Potts]

oh blow it, didn't realise it was a 78rpm, been playing it at 45. But it does still sound a bit like that intro Ian, just a bit faster. That now explains why Georgie Porgie sounded a bit gruff

Edited September 6, 2008 by pottsy

[Guest]

I bloody need it after THIS page.

I have no time to look back through the whole of this thread to see if you have posted anything from your new DVD, but would you be able to post me a little snippet / taster of video of your new re-edited DVD.

Just very intrested in a quick clip to see the tech improvements (After seeing SWONS )

I'm sure you have posted stuff from it, but with such a massive thread its hard to pick out what you want to look at !!!

Cheers Mossy

[Tabs]

Am I losing the plot here?

Personalities aside Ian tracked down all the artists and recorded them for posterity.

As has been clearly stated, and collaborated by others, there was no way the financial investment could be recouped.

At the risk of repeating myself, from God knows how many pages ago, it remains an historical archive of the artists we all profess to love and admire.

The 'artistic' effects might not be to every ones taste but the filming wasn't done with the luxury of an unlimited Hollywood budget.

And the backgrounds, in some cases, required the effects to mask the actual surroundings.

All the detractors really need to re think their position.

SWONS is actual footage of the artists, no more no less.

It might not have the best production or direction but if better archive video exists then point me to where it resides.

Until I see that evidence this constant critique is undeserved.

The attacks are on the individual not the final product.

Despite all the negativity I don't actually see any one proclaiming they can do better.

Quite simply SWONS is not perfect, but I doubt anyone will better it.

[Prophonics 2029]

I think I found Mel Britt by the site search could be page 9 or 10.

[Guest]

I think I found Mel Britt by the site search could be page 9 or 10.

Many thanks dude !

[Prophonics 2029]

Many thanks dude !

Sorry mate 5 https://www.soul-source.co.uk/Ian-Lev...html&st=200

[chrissie]

Am I losing the plot here?

Personalities aside Ian tracked down all the artists and recorded them for posterity.

As has been clearly stated, and collaborated by others, there was no way the financial investment could be recouped.

At the risk of repeating myself, from God knows how many pages ago, it remains an historical archive of the artists we all profess to love and admire.

The 'artistic' effects might not be to every ones taste but the filming wasn't done with the luxury of an unlimited Hollywood budget.

And the backgrounds, in some cases, required the effects to mask the actual surroundings.

All the detractors really need to re think their position.

SWONS is actual footage of the artists, no more no less.

It might not have the best production or direction but if better archive video exists then point me to where it resides.

Until I see that evidence this constant critique is undeserved.

The attacks are on the individual not the final product.

Despite all the negativity I don't actually see any one proclaiming they can do better.

Quite simply SWONS is not perfect, but I doubt anyone will better it.

Evening sweetie.

To be fair I don't think the majority have knocked what Ian did in the past, although I was never a mecca fan, but what got peoples back up is his sometimes "victim" stance and almost self appointing godliness also knocking other people, such as Dave Rimmer, Ady, Joan & Sam (who is not one of my favorite DJs only because these days he leans towards the modern stance which as you know is personally not my thing but I do have respect for him ) but there again I have said pubilically on here and to his face I don't like JT as a DJ not because of the music he plays, but because of his sometimes bombastic attitude when he has a mike in his hand but doesn't mean I don't respect his enthusiasm and love of music.

If Ian would just accept sometimes that he has made mistakes or taken back some of the things about these people he has said, and show a little more humility to people who may not of produced a huge catalogue of reproduced Northern soul but certainly have discovered many toons and filled numerous dance floors over the years and have contributed so much more in so many other ways. Certainly in Ady's case probably the longest running succesfull Allnighter since tiem began OK not the biggest but hey, it's still going and it is seen as the holy grail for most 60s DJs on the scene.

If Ian was not prepared to take the flack for his work he should not of put himself up as a prime target. I just feel that some people like Kev Roberts and Ian seem to think they are bigger than the scene and the music but at the end of the day they aren't. You can't expect to open a thread about your work without critisism. I would hope that Ian will learn from this epic of a thread that people ARE interested in what he did for the scene in the 70s/80s but don't have to like everything he is doing now.

QoFxx

Edited September 6, 2008 by chrissie

[Guest]

I think I found Mel Britt by the site search could be page 9 or 10.

I have just watched Freddie Bulter and Mel Britt from the new DVD and it is really nice to see Fred in the flesh again and on the telly !

I own Freddys "dab of Soul" LP on Kapp and whilst never beating the "pied piped" production (how could you) it is nice just to see him in the flesh, singing and smiling !

And the "Mel Britt" is a decent remix IMO . I would love Ian levine to make his version popular.... get airplay........and have a top 10 hit !

Why? ............Because it would be really intresting !

"And at number 6 this Sunday its Mel Britt"

It would be mad !!!!!

(the video edit could loose the blue / red flag efx and the spinning circle efx IMO (No need!), The sparkled and whiteout flow and work very well and are NICE when you are tripping! )

mad !!!!!! totally mad thread ! Totally mad scene ! ITS ACE !

Edited September 6, 2008 by mossy

[Wiganer1]

It was also pretty embarrassing that anyone could think the Four Vandals was an original track from the sixities when it patently was not.

And a bit sad that if Ian had just come out and said it was a new recording made by him it would have been rejected out of hand - but because of the hype it became in demand. Or am I wrong about that?.

By the way if anyone has a demo of "My Head's In The Stars" I would be very happy to buy if from them. Please PM me if you have one for sale.

============

hi neil .. got a mint demo of stars but not for sale -- inches away from spinning this 2nite actually - gr8 tune!

[Samplat]

i'm sorry i have to finally speak on this subject. i used to go to the mecca in the early seventies and thought it wasthe greatest place. i have been to wigan and to va va's and everywhere in between but to hear the best sounds you had to go to the mecca. myself and two mates used to sit just inside the door with rick cooper and his mate from global records buying and selling records including dealing with everybody from leicester. i always remember the five levine used to play just after one which were stuff like melvin carter which you only heard at the mecca. great nights, and then on a sunday we would go to keighley to andy simpsons do's. anybody who was around in them days remembers they were great days. later of course the mecca moved to newer stuff but they were still class records. i now tend to collect the older records rather than seventies but that is only my preference. i have watched the videos ian has done of the artists and they are fantastic reminders of time 's gone by.to be able to see the artists singing is fantastic. i had the good fortune of going to the usa on kevs 2nd trip and although the initial night was not very well organized it did improve afterwards. i know i am rabbiting on but please can we stop all this bickering. lets all get back together and love this great sound. ps. has anyone seen basil who used to go to the mecca. if you know her tell her stuart and paul are asking about her

[SteveM]

Evening sweetie.

To be fair I don't think the majority have knocked what Ian did in the past, although I was never a mecca fan, but what got peoples back up is his sometimes "victim" stance and almost self appointing godliness also knocking other people, such as Dave Rimmer, Ady, Joan & Sam (who is not one of my favorite DJs only because these days he leans towards the modern stance which as you know is personally not my thing but I do have respect for him ) but there again I have said pubilically on here and to his face I don't like JT as a DJ not because of the music he plays, but because of his sometimes bombastic attitude when he has a mike in his hand but doesn't mean I don't respect his enthusiasm and love of music.

If Ian would just accept sometimes that he has made mistakes or taken back some of the things about these people he has said, and show a little more humility to people who may not of produced a huge catalogue of reproduced Northern soul but certainly have discovered many toons and filled numerous dance floors over the years and have contributed so much more in so many other ways. Certainly in Ady's case probably the longest running succesfull Allnighter since tiem began OK not the biggest but hey, it's still going and it is seen as the holy grail for most 60s DJs on the scene.

If Ian was not prepared to take the flack for his work he should not of put himself up as a prime target. I just feel that some people like Kev Roberts and Ian seem to think they are bigger than the scene and the music but at the end of the day they aren't. You can't expect to open a thread about your work without critisism. I would hope that Ian will learn from this epic of a thread that people ARE interested in what he did for the scene in the 70s/80s but don't have to like everything he is doing now.

QoFxx

Good post Chrissie.

Many of us of a certain age would be proud to have done ,at some point, what Ian did for the scene in the 70's. I would also suggest that with an exceptional pedigree such as he had at that time, most of us, especially after leaving the Northern scene for pastures new, would be quite happy basking in our past glories, safe in the knowledge that we had genuinely done our bit for the rare soul scene. But not Ian. Or Kev. Or Russ, to name the three obvious examples. They're not satisfied with past glories, however much they are deserved. They demand the same hero worship and blind obedience they had 35 years ago, but forget that we are not 17/18 years of age anymore. That we are adults with valid and relevant opinions that may not agree with their versions of the how current scene stands.

The egos are so great, that they cannot understand critisism from any quarter, let alone from people they don't know. Don't understand how anyone can challenge their views, especially as so few people, Dave Godin and Sam come to mind as exeptions, dared to challenge them all those years ago. Humility is a word unknown to them. They refuse to see that despite their input, we would have found most of it without them.

Ian cannot see that James and Paul are just as opinionated as him, cannot see that there opinions are more valid than his, because they want to drive the scene forward today (just as he always wanted to do in the halcyon days). That they are, in their posts, simply playing by his rules, i.e. saying and doing what they want, regardless, unimpressed and unafraid by threats that have to be delivered by third parties. Live by the sword, die by it. Don't whine like a kicked dog.

Ian can't begin to understand why he is not revered by the current scene in the way that Richard Searling and Sam are. And until he works that out he will continue to be derided by many people. His impact on the scene in the early to mid seventies still give him enormous respect that some of his contemporaries can only dream of. Unfortunately, that huge goodwill pot can only be eroded while he demands the respect now, that he actually earned all those years ago, without rhyme or reason, save for an ego that will be of no comfort to him in his twilight years. The sycophants will have gone, and he'll be wondering "why". SWONS was and still is a wonderful project but will be deprecated by the attitude of the genius who imagined it, and brought it to fruition. The greatness of it will be lost due to Ians obsession with the cult of his own personality.

And some won't care less.

Edited September 6, 2008 by SteveM

[Prophonics 2029]

Am I losing the plot here?

Personalities aside Ian tracked down all the artists and recorded them for posterity.

As has been clearly stated, and collaborated by others, there was no way the financial investment could be recouped.

At the risk of repeating myself, from God knows how many pages ago, it remains an historical archive of the artists we all profess to love and admire.

The 'artistic' effects might not be to every ones taste but the filming wasn't done with the luxury of an unlimited Hollywood budget.

And the backgrounds, in some cases, required the effects to mask the actual surroundings.

All the detractors really need to re think their position.

SWONS is actual footage of the artists, no more no less.

It might not have the best production or direction but if better archive video exists then point me to where it resides.

Until I see that evidence this constant critique is undeserved.

The attacks are on the individual not the final product.

Despite all the negativity I don't actually see any one proclaiming they can do better.

Quite simply SWONS is not perfect, but I doubt anyone will better it.

Hey Tabs don't take me posting the wrong way I am sure I agree with every word you say but I have never seen the thing so I can really say one way or another, my point being for all the artist to have seen how the finished video would be before it went on sale.

They is no doubt that it is a historic archive of material that can never be repeated, a unique one off that Ian and the boys had put together.

Hello

This is a fair point which often comes up. I bought a copy for one artist and have also copied brief sections for others.

But to be fair to Ian, I understand he was only allowed so many complimentary copies by Wienerworld and, sadly, that wasn't nearly enough to supply 179 featured artists.

Best regards,

Paul Mooney

Ady is probably too tactful to point this out, but he was talking about our release on VHS tape some time years before the DVD release by Wienerworld. Each VHS package cost us a fortune - much more, ironically, than it would be now for the same number of DVDs which give better reproduction. We were all exhausted at the time from getting SWONS out but we could and should have supplied copies of their particular video for artists who asked. We did supply some, but others slipped through the net and that was wrong.

Neil

Sorry to Neil and Paul if I read your posts in the wrong light seeing it as a as a hindsight regret that all didn't get a copy and not as an impractical hurdle you had encountered and allowed for

under the stress and tiredness of the I suppose big push to get to the end of the project.

I hope I didn't upset you both I meant no harm to your hard work, when I get a problem nothing or no one will deter me from finding a solution.

Edited September 6, 2008 by Prophonics 2029

[Ady Croasdell]

Neil was totally reasonable about the lack of copies for the artists and open to suggestions on how this could be rectified.

The claim that it would have been impossible to get copies on US Vhs to the artists is inaccurate. As I said earlier when I filmed Mary Love and Tony Middleton at Cleethorpes I had US copies made for a very reasonable price. The cost of copying one Swons and editing each acts performance for them would have been minimal and would have rewarded the artist properly so that they could get to see their performance. To say there were too many acts to look after is probably the root of the problem. If you had concentrated on a few less it may have been better quality all round. Having said that it would be a shame for those who missed out, I think they're all valid representatives of our music. But once you decide to do a project like that and encourage people like myself and Andy Rix to work for nothing in the hope that it will benefit the music and the artists, then you should look after the artists to this very small extent at least.

[Dave Moore]

Wasn't going to post on this thread but found myself getting drawn in about the SWONS project so here goes...

Before posting this I need to state that Ian and I are not friends I have no axe to grind, although he did once call me the 'Devil Incarnate' after I criticised some records on a playlist of his. Don't worry, I managed to get over it!

Many people on SS constantly bleat that they only 'promote' their gigs 'for the love of the music', that theirs is a 'labour of love'. Well playmates, setting up a gig and losing a few of quid once a month pales into insignificance when compared with 'professional' losses incurred on soul projects. The history of the UK scene is littered with people who stepped up and lost LOTS of $$$. SWONS was doomed as financial outing from the outset because the people involved took it on as a 'labour of love'. To have produced it must have been a administrative nightmare and kudos to all involved should really be the order of the day. Sure...it ain't perfect, but then which one of us can claim that all the stuff we've done is?

It seems that some people resent the fact that a few people make a living out of soul music (or at least attempt to), in my opinion it's the green eyed monster. As someone who tries to help get the artists stories out there in a format that is vibrant, colorful and glossy I would love to make a few $$$ at the same time but that's never gonna happen. To do it the way we want to do it just costs too much money. So we subsidise it and ...it becomes a 'labor of love'. People who contribute to these projects usually do it gratis. They do it for the same reasons most of us do....to pay respect to the people who created this wonderful music and to see them bask in their 15 minutes of fame at last. It gives you a warm feeling.

Ian Levine has his idiosynchracies, many of which come across as unpleasant I'll grant you. But the SWONS is in my opinion his crowning glory. It ranks above the records he discovered and the music he created. In years to come people will recognize it for what it is. A living, breathing pictoral record of artists who provided a large swathe of British youth/adults with the musical backdrop to their lives. It's a fantastic achievement and one I wish I could have done for sure.

I'm off to Weinerworld to order the latest offering. If you want to pay respect to the artists you profess to love, I'd respectfully recommend you do the same and maybe, just maybe, they'll see some recompense for their wonderful songs.

As Kev Robert's name was also mentioned in this thread, for lovers of the artists, I'd also recommend attending SoulTrip USA in Chicago. Once again, it's not perfect but it allows us, as fans, to put money DIRECTLY into the pockets of the artists. Surely no one could think that was a bad thing?? I go with a group of long time collectors and we buy every T Shirt, CD, Photo, Trinket that the artists have on sale. To sit with Ronnie Walker for an hour and then stuff $$$ into his 'fund' was a joy! When they are gone it'll be too late.

I know this will piss some people off....but there's a bigger picture to the Northern Soul Scene that sometimes gets smothered by the monthly gigs, promotion squabbles, bootleg v ovo, laptop DJs, oldies v newies, Ebay sucks etc. That picture is a montage of artists, producers, songwriters, backing singers, musicians, label owners etc and the tapestries of their lives. I for one congratulate Ian, Neil and the rest of their 'little helpers' for bringing me their performances to my front room. Thanks guys....it's appreciated.

Finally, I genuinely believe that if Ady or Richard or someone else had undertaken this project it would have been better received. It's something that Ian will no doubt flare up at but there you go. Most 'business' people would try to keep the customer happy at almost any cost, but Ian needs to be kept happy first and foremost and that's probably his Achilles heel as far as the customer service side of business is concerned.

[Guest]

Wasn't going to post on this thread but found myself getting drawn in about the SWONS project so here goes...

Before posting this I need to state that Ian and I are not friends I have no axe to grind, although he did once call me the 'Devil Incarnate' after I criticised some records on a playlist of his. Don't worry, I managed to get over it!

Many people on SS constantly bleat that they only 'promote' their gigs 'for the love of the music', that theirs is a 'labour of love'. Well playmates, setting up a gig and losing a few of quid once a month pales into insignificance when compared with 'professional' losses incurred on soul projects. The history of the UK scene is littered with people who stepped up and lost LOTS of $$$. SWONS was doomed as financial outing from the outset because the people involved took it on as a 'labour of love'. To have produced it must have been a administrative nightmare and kudos to all involved should really be the order of the day. Sure...it ain't perfect, but then which one of us can claim that all the stuff we've done is?

It seems that some people resent the fact that a few people make a living out of soul music (or at least attempt to), in my opinion it's the green eyed monster. As someone who tries to help get the artists stories out there in a format that is vibrant, colorful and glossy I would love to make a few $$$ at the same time but that's never gonna happen. To do it the way we want to do it just costs too much money. So we subsidise it and ...it becomes a 'labor of love'. People who contribute to these projects usually do it gratis. They do it for the same reasons most of us do....to pay respect to the people who created this wonderful music and to see them bask in their 15 minutes of fame at last. It gives you a warm feeling.

Ian Levine has his idiosynchracies, many of which come across as unpleasant I'll grant you. But the SWONS is in my opinion his crowning glory. It ranks above the records he discovered and the music he created. In years to come people will recognize it for what it is. A living, breathing pictoral record of artists who provided a large swathe of British youth/adults with the musical backdrop to their lives. It's a fantastic achievement and one I wish I could have done for sure.

I'm off to Weinerworld to order the latest offering. If you want to pay respect to the artists you profess to love, I'd respectfully recommend you do the same and maybe, just maybe, they'll see some recompense for their wonderful songs.

As Kev Robert's name was also mentioned in this thread, for lovers of the artists, I'd also recommend attending SoulTrip USA in Chicago. Once again, it's not perfect but it allows us, as fans, to put money DIRECTLY into the pockets of the artists. Surely no one could think that was a bad thing?? I go with a group of long time collectors and we buy every T Shirt, CD, Photo, Trinket that the artists have on sale. To sit with Ronnie Walker for an hour and then stuff $$$ into his 'fund' was a joy! When they are gone it'll be too late.

I know this will piss some people off....but there's a bigger picture to the Northern Soul Scene that sometimes gets smothered by the monthly gigs, promotion squabbles, bootleg v ovo, laptop DJs, oldies v newies, Ebay sucks etc. That picture is a montage of artists, producers, songwriters, backing singers, musicians, label owners etc and the tapestries of their lives. I for one congratulate Ian, Neil and the rest of their 'little helpers' for bringing me their performances to my front room. Thanks guys....it's appreciated.

Finally, I genuinely believe that if Ady or Richard or someone else had undertaken this project it would have been better received. It's something that Ian will no doubt flare up at but there you go. Most 'business' people would try to keep the customer happy at almost any cost, but Ian needs to be kept happy first and foremost and that's probably his Achilles heel as far as the customer service side of business is concerned.

Superb post!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wasn't gonna say one more word on this thread after yesterday's distasteful debacle(s) but felt a strong urge to congratulate Mr Moore on his words - well done sir...!

MRez

[Mark B]

This was 1972 , and the management of the Mecca establishment where I worked , believed that playing soul music would deter the people from attending , stating that paying punter wanted to hear chart and pop sounds , hence them putting a block on it being played .......

That is the reason for asking the original question of Ian , in respect of the ally they had in Bill Pye at Blackpool ......

It was quite ironic , that the Mecca venue I had worked at which vetoed soul music , had to resort to the music being added to the playlist again several years later , in order to bring in the punters to boost falling attendences .......

Malc Burton

hi malc probably because like sale mecca they both had small rooms that needed to be used as the main rooms which held the large crowd catered for the pop music and they could make money out if the smaller rooms with a soul night.

mark

Edited September 6, 2008 by mark.b

[Guest]

I have no time to look back through the whole of this thread to see if you have posted anything from your new DVD, but would you be able to post me a little snippet / taster of video of your new re-edited DVD.

Just very intrested in a quick clip to see the tech improvements (After seeing SWONS )

I'm sure you have posted stuff from it, but with such a massive thread its hard to pick out what you want to look at !!!

Cheers Mossy

I have posted loads.

Here you go then.....

">

[Guest]

Am I losing the plot here?

Personalities aside Ian tracked down all the artists and recorded them for posterity.

As has been clearly stated, and collaborated by others, there was no way the financial investment could be recouped.

At the risk of repeating myself, from God knows how many pages ago, it remains an historical archive of the artists we all profess to love and admire.

The 'artistic' effects might not be to every ones taste but the filming wasn't done with the luxury of an unlimited Hollywood budget.

And the backgrounds, in some cases, required the effects to mask the actual surroundings.

All the detractors really need to re think their position.

SWONS is actual footage of the artists, no more no less.

It might not have the best production or direction but if better archive video exists then point me to where it resides.

Until I see that evidence this constant critique is undeserved.

The attacks are on the individual not the final product.

Despite all the negativity I don't actually see any one proclaiming they can do better.

Quite simply SWONS is not perfect, but I doubt anyone will better it.

But also every one of these new 200 videos that was part of the original SWONS (about half) have been redone from scratch. Going beck to the original raw footage shot on the cameras ten years ago, they have ALL been edited all over again with 2008 technology, not 1998 technology, to make them look quite luxurious in many cases.

[Guest]

If Ian was not prepared to take the flack for his work he should not of put himself up as a prime target. I just feel that some people like Kev Roberts and Ian seem to think they are bigger than the scene and the music but at the end of the day they aren't. You can't expect to open a thread about your work without critisism. I would hope that Ian will learn from this epic of a thread that people ARE interested in what he did for the scene in the 70s/80s but don't have to like everything he is doing now.

I am perfectly prepared to deal with constructive criticism.

I am not prepaerd to listen to, and have no patience with, and no time for, DESTRUCTIVE criticism.

The former I will answer civilly and patiently.

The latter I will try to ignore, but if it becomes a nuisance, as it has been on this thread many times, I cannot help but lash back out.

[Guest]

I own Freddys "dab of Soul" LP on Kapp and whilst never beating the "pied piped" production (how could you) it is nice just to see him in the flesh, singing and smiling !

I wasn't trying to beat the Pied Piper production.

But Kapp became MCA which is now Universal, and that means using the original version is a complete no-go area for a multitude of reasons.

It was a case of re-record the track or don't use the song.

Even, as I have said, if we had raised a fortune to pay to use all the original versions, that would have only lasted three years. Ten years later we would, once again, have all this footage and no rights to use the music to go along with it.

Re-doing all the songs was the only possible way to do this whole project in the first place.

[Phild]

Wasn't going to post on this thread but found myself getting drawn in about the SWONS project so here goes...

Before posting this I need to state that Ian and I are not friends I have no axe to grind, although he did once call me the 'Devil Incarnate' after I criticised some records on a playlist of his. Don't worry, I managed to get over it!

Many people on SS constantly bleat that they only 'promote' their gigs 'for the love of the music', that theirs is a 'labour of love'. Well playmates, setting up a gig and losing a few of quid once a month pales into insignificance when compared with 'professional' losses incurred on soul projects. The history of the UK scene is littered with people who stepped up and lost LOTS of $$. SWONS was doomed as financial outing from the outset because the people involved took it on as a 'labour of love'. To have produced it must have been a administrative nightmare and kudos to all involved should really be the order of the day. Sure...it ain't perfect, but then which one of us can claim that all the stuff we've done is?

It seems that some people resent the fact that a few people make a living out of soul music (or at least attempt to), in my opinion it's the green eyed monster. As someone who tries to help get the artists stories out there in a format that is vibrant, colorful and glossy I would love to make a few $$ at the same time but that's never gonna happen. To do it the way we want to do it just costs too much money. So we subsidise it and ...it becomes a 'labor of love'. People who contribute to these projects usually do it gratis. They do it for the same reasons most of us do....to pay respect to the people who created this wonderful music and to see them bask in their 15 minutes of fame at last. It gives you a warm feeling.

Ian Levine has his idiosynchracies, many of which come across as unpleasant I'll grant you. But the SWONS is in my opinion his crowning glory. It ranks above the records he discovered and the music he created. In years to come people will recognize it for what it is. A living, breathing pictoral record of artists who provided a large swathe of British youth/adults with the musical backdrop to their lives. It's a fantastic achievement and one I wish I could have done for sure.

I'm off to Weinerworld to order the latest offering. If you want to pay respect to the artists you profess to love, I'd respectfully recommend you do the same and maybe, just maybe, they'll see some recompense for their wonderful songs.

As Kev Robert's name was also mentioned in this thread, for lovers of the artists, I'd also recommend attending SoulTrip USA in Chicago. Once again, it's not perfect but it allows us, as fans, to put money DIRECTLY into the pockets of the artists. Surely no one could think that was a bad thing?? I go with a group of long time collectors and we buy every T Shirt, CD, Photo, Trinket that the artists have on sale. To sit with Ronnie Walker for an hour and then stuff $$ into his 'fund' was a joy! When they are gone it'll be too late.

I know this will piss some people off....but there's a bigger picture to the Northern Soul Scene that sometimes gets smothered by the monthly gigs, promotion squabbles, bootleg v ovo, laptop DJs, oldies v newies, Ebay sucks etc. That picture is a montage of artists, producers, songwriters, backing singers, musicians, label owners etc and the tapestries of their lives. I for one congratulate Ian, Neil and the rest of their 'little helpers' for bringing me their performances to my front room. Thanks guys....it's appreciated.

Finally, I genuinely believe that if Ady or Richard or someone else had undertaken this project it would have been better received. It's something that Ian will no doubt flare up at but there you go. Most 'business' people would try to keep the customer happy at almost any cost, but Ian needs to be kept happy first and foremost and that's probably his Achilles heel as far as the customer service side of business is concerned.

Dave,

Well said matey. Eextremely eloquently put.

You ought to try your hand at writing for magazines

Phil

[Guest]

============

hi neil .. got a mint demo of stars but not for sale -- inches away from spinning this 2nite actually - gr8 tune!

Good man.

Ace man.

Top man.

But why did you sell your rare L.J. Johnson ????

[Reg]

I have posted loads.

Here you go then.....

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[Guest]

To say there were too many acts to look after is probably the root of the problem. If you had concentrated on a few less it may have been better quality all round.

I'm not sure I can let a statement like that go unchallenged. If the number had been less, it would have been the acts like Little Ann and Emanuel Lasky who would have been the ones left out, and that would have been a shame.

[Guest]

myself and two mates used to sit just inside the door with rick cooper and his mate from global records buying and selling records including dealing with everybody from leicester.

Rick Cooper.

There's a name I haven't heard for years.

Didn't Richard used to work for Global at one point ???

[Guest]

But not Ian. Or Kev. Or Russ, to name the three obvious examples. They're not satisfied with past glories, however much they are deserved. They demand the same hero worship and blind obedience they had 35 years ago, but forget that we are not 17/18 years of age anymore. That we are adults with valid and relevant opinions that may not agree with their versions of the how current scene stands.

They are not all valid. Some are, in fact probably most are, but a lot are most certainly NOT.

[Ady Croasdell]

I'm not sure I can let a statement like that go unchallenged. If the number had been less, it would have been the acts like Little Ann and Emanuel Lasky who would have been the ones left out, and that would have been a shame.

That's what I also said.

[SteveM]

They are not all valid. Some are, in fact probably most are, but a lot are most certainly NOT.

But are some of them invalid simply because they don't agree with you Ian ? It seems that you can never, ever accept that any view you hold can be skewed in any way. No one is right 100% of the time.

Edited September 6, 2008 by SteveM

[Guest]

Wasn't going to post on this thread but found myself getting drawn in about the SWONS project so here goes...

Before posting this I need to state that Ian and I are not friends I have no axe to grind, although he did once call me the 'Devil Incarnate' after I criticised some records on a playlist of his. Don't worry, I managed to get over it!

Many people on SS constantly bleat that they only 'promote' their gigs 'for the love of the music', that theirs is a 'labour of love'. Well playmates, setting up a gig and losing a few of quid once a month pales into insignificance when compared with 'professional' losses incurred on soul projects. The history of the UK scene is littered with people who stepped up and lost LOTS of $$$. SWONS was doomed as financial outing from the outset because the people involved took it on as a 'labour of love'. To have produced it must have been a administrative nightmare and kudos to all involved should really be the order of the day. Sure...it ain't perfect, but then which one of us can claim that all the stuff we've done is?

It seems that some people resent the fact that a few people make a living out of soul music (or at least attempt to), in my opinion it's the green eyed monster. As someone who tries to help get the artists stories out there in a format that is vibrant, colorful and glossy I would love to make a few $$$ at the same time but that's never gonna happen. To do it the way we want to do it just costs too much money. So we subsidise it and ...it becomes a 'labor of love'. People who contribute to these projects usually do it gratis. They do it for the same reasons most of us do....to pay respect to the people who created this wonderful music and to see them bask in their 15 minutes of fame at last. It gives you a warm feeling.

Ian Levine has his idiosynchracies, many of which come across as unpleasant I'll grant you. But the SWONS is in my opinion his crowning glory. It ranks above the records he discovered and the music he created. In years to come people will recognize it for what it is. A living, breathing pictoral record of artists who provided a large swathe of British youth/adults with the musical backdrop to their lives. It's a fantastic achievement and one I wish I could have done for sure.

I'm off to Weinerworld to order the latest offering. If you want to pay respect to the artists you profess to love, I'd respectfully recommend you do the same and maybe, just maybe, they'll see some recompense for their wonderful songs.

As Kev Robert's name was also mentioned in this thread, for lovers of the artists, I'd also recommend attending SoulTrip USA in Chicago. Once again, it's not perfect but it allows us, as fans, to put money DIRECTLY into the pockets of the artists. Surely no one could think that was a bad thing?? I go with a group of long time collectors and we buy every T Shirt, CD, Photo, Trinket that the artists have on sale. To sit with Ronnie Walker for an hour and then stuff $$$ into his 'fund' was a joy! When they are gone it'll be too late.

I know this will piss some people off....but there's a bigger picture to the Northern Soul Scene that sometimes gets smothered by the monthly gigs, promotion squabbles, bootleg v ovo, laptop DJs, oldies v newies, Ebay sucks etc. That picture is a montage of artists, producers, songwriters, backing singers, musicians, label owners etc and the tapestries of their lives. I for one congratulate Ian, Neil and the rest of their 'little helpers' for bringing me their performances to my front room. Thanks guys....it's appreciated.

Finally, I genuinely believe that if Ady or Richard or someone else had undertaken this project it would have been better received. It's something that Ian will no doubt flare up at but there you go. Most 'business' people would try to keep the customer happy at almost any cost, but Ian needs to be kept happy first and foremost and that's probably his Achilles heel as far as the customer service side of business is concerned.

Yes we have not always seen eye to eye, which is what makes your post all the more poignant in its truth, and I appreciate you posting it.

I have done two things in my life, Motorcity and SWONS, which lost an absolute fortune.

Both came about because of my love of a music form that has dominated my life since I was fourteen.

I regret the debts I carry because of both projects, debts I may spend my whole life weighing me down. But to counter that, I sold millions of records with High Energy and Take That, although not nearly enough to cover the losses from Motorcity and SWONS, I freely admit.

But we are delivering all the new masters on Monday. I have test discs already of discs one, two three, and four, and we are spending all weekend finishing disc five, my personal favourite for many many reasons of the whole set.

Last night, with a friend, we watched through the first four discs and simply marvelled.

Seeing them one after another look so good, with all the old faults fixed, with all the faulty songs redone, with badly out of tune vocals improved, slick new effects to replace the garish ten year old ones and I realised why I did it and what drove me.

Ady Croasdell said above that "To say there were too many acts to look after is probably the root of the problem. If you had concentrated on a few less it may have been better quality all round." But if I had done less, some of these priceless performances would have never been filmed and certain artists would have gone to their grave unrecognised visually. I told the story of Tommy Ridgley a while back. Lets be honest, he was not top of my list. If I had said we would limit it to 100, he would not have been filmed. But he was dying and it meant everything to perform for a DVD before he succumbed to cancer.

Isn't that why I did it ??????? I am no Saint, I grant you, and have had more than my share of criticism, but whatever they say about me, I KNOW this one time I did something GOOD.

[chrissie]

I am perfectly prepared to deal with constructive criticism.

I personally have not seen much evidence of this Ian, when ever on this thread someone has critised you or your work you have bitten back vitriolically at them. Many, including myself have said that we find very little in what you are doing now but have respect for what you did in the 70s and 80s. OK some of these people haven't put this accross in the best way, but why do you keep harping on about your recent productions which you for some reason think have something to do with northern soul when many have said, including myself, that we don't just see the connection.

No one has particularly slagged off your past acheivements why not accept that gracefully and continue to furnish the forum with your vast knowledge of true northern soul, much of which you discovered and no one is questioning that, instead of carrying on down a road that I can only describe as self distructive.

You seem to think that you deserve respect but respect has to be earned it is not a god given right and your outbursts and constant digs at other well respected people such as Dave Rimmer and Ady is only contributing to people losing their respect for you.

The Northern/Rare soul scene has an aging population but thankfully there are many younger people now getting into the music who hopefully will carry it but many of these people don't even know who you are or, I hate to say it care. The scene has changed greatly over the years and it is time you realised this and instead of portraying yourself as the forgotten screen goddess, help the lkes of Ady, Dave, Steve G, Sam etc to welcome these young people on to the scene and help them with the vast knowledge you have of this music.

QoFxx

[SteveM]

Isn't that why I did it ??????? I am no Saint, I grant you, and have had more than my share of criticism, but whatever they say about me, I KNOW this one time I did something GOOD.

I think everybody knows that it was good Ian. I referred to that in my post. To pretend otherwise, for whatever reason, would be at the best churlish, if not downright vindictive.

[Mark B]

Rick Cooper.

There's a name I haven't heard for years.

Didn't Richard used to work for Global at one point ???

yes he did ian still see him occasionally have bumped into him at prestwich a few times one of the nicest blokes you could ever wish to meet.

mark

[Guest]

why do you keep harping on about your recent productions which you for some reason think have something to do with northern soul when many have said, including myself, that we don't just see the connection.

Because they do, and because Northern Soul is bigger than your own sphere of existence, and others do see the connection even if you and your friends don't.

Now read the following very carefully and try to be objective about what I'm saying here....

The reason I used the term fascist so long ago, is because a person who can't see the connection of something, and therefore declares that to be the way it is, whether others see that connection or not, in other words a person who imposes their will on everyone else because they don't see any validity in the way the others think, or worse, want to stamp the other way out, becomes, whether intentionally or not, the epitome of what we define as a fascist.

Now this is on a very small scale I grant you, and fairly innocent, but left unchecked it leads to bigotry, censorship, and results in burning of books because they challenge the approved way of thought.

In context now, you don't think my productions are Northern Soul. Fair enough. You are entitled to your opinion. Therefore you should be saying "I personally don't see them as Northern Soul". That is the comment of the reasonable person who disagrees.

But to state categorically that I think for some reason they are Northern Soul when they're not, is to take on the fascist umbrella and put yourself across as the arbiter of everyone else's taste, including those people who go to Kev Roberts' do's or Sean Chapmans, or Hitsville Chalkys, who hear my records ina setting which they believe to be Northern Soul. Do you honestly have the right to tell them that these gigs are NOT Northern Soul because they don't conform you your personal definition of what Northern Soul should constitute ???

[Guest Carl Dixon]

Well, I am taking the DVD box set to Philly with me today! It is in the suitcase and something I treasure. I just hope it plays on their TV system. I can well imagine loads of heartache making it for all concerned as tracing artists who otherwise thought they were forgotten must have been difficult. If any decent TV company were around they would embrace what was done and use the footage for documentaries, or at least do something similar. It's great to see contributions from everybody. It must be satisfying for some of the artists to know their efforts from years ago are even known about in this day and age. Dave Moore summed it all up - excellent post. I work for a TV station and frankly they do not have a clue about this type of thing. I offered a channel the chance to video my Detroit session, as long as they contributed to the artists performance. They would own the copyright in the video recording and be able to exploit it. I would own the copyright in the song compositions (partly), so if they got played on air in a documentary all sorts of residuals would have been flying around. But no, 'we do not have a budget for that type of thing'. Well done to all concerned with the project, as I to feel that one day it will be respected a little more.

[Guest]

why not accept that gracefully and continue to furnish the forum with your vast knowledge of true northern soul

Now this line is actually WORSE.

Who is to say what is TRUE Northern Soul and what is not ??

Who has earned that right ??

Who has the power to deride someone's choice of music because it doesn't fit into a pigeonhole ???

It certainly wasn't like that in the Seventies, which means your scene has become a much sadder place, in my personal opinion.

[Prophonics 2029]

Its me again

Don't take this the wrong way but by putting the clips up in their entirety on UTube will this affect DVD sales, in the modern world of technology it's easy to store a web address than a DVD.

Edited September 6, 2008 by Prophonics 2029

[Guest]

your outbursts and constant digs at other well respected people such as Dave Rimmer and Ady is only contributing to people losing their respect for you.

I haven't had any digs at Ady on here.

In fact I publicly thanked him for his help and kind assistance when we were doing SWONS.

I disagreed with his recollections of what happened in 2002 and 2003, and in a private facebook message to James Trouble, happened to say so. That was marked as private and should not have been reproduced here, and was done so without either my permission or desire.

I was unable to stop this happening, much as I wish I could have, but I assure you I have not, myself, slagged off Ady Croasdell at all on this thread.

[Pete S]

Well, I am taking the DVD box set to Philly with me today! It is in the suitcase and something I treasure. I just hope it plays on their TV system.

It won't. You'll have to play it on a pc and change the region coding. I think.

[Mark B]

It won't. You'll have to play it on a pc and change the region coding. I think.

unless they have a multi region dvd player pete ?

mark

[Sebastian]

It won't. You'll have to play it on a pc and change the region coding. I think.

It will play if you have a multi-region DVD player. Almost all DVD-players that are sold these days can be "unlocked" and made multi-region with a couple of clicks on the remote control. There are tons of websites out there that can help you do this. Here's one of them:

https://www.videohelp.com/dvdhacks/

Edited September 6, 2008 by Sebastian