Ian Levine, Motorcity, Centre City, Blackpool Mecca, And Swons

[Ian Dewhirst]

That's weird - I was watching disc 3 of SWONS this morning whilst having breakfast (as you do) and there was a 'filler' section showing various scenes driving in Chicago and New York with this cracking instrumental playing and I thought "I wonder what that one is - it's really good?". I then played 'West Coast Shingaling' and there it was!

Brilliant stuff - whatever happened to instrumentals?

They're back! Can't beat a monster instrumental IMO.

The only reason I found 'em was I was still trying to get to the bottom of the David Ruffin multiple versions of "Hurt The One You Love" scenario and I stumbled into the Watts 103rd Street Strings on the same album as "Cafe Regio's" - Gary The Master Blaster!

I reckon that since the album sold jack plus Ian's 'reputation' would have put off a lot of people, most people have probably never heard this stuff. I certainly hadn't, even though I've had the album since it was released. I never played it and listened to the music on it's own merits because I had "Levine Fatigue" at the time and thought it could be a case of 'same old, same old' if you see what I mean.

However, I'm now listening to this stuff with fresh ears and less preconceptions and getting some lovely surprises along the line. This whole process is happening very organically and very publically so I've really no agenda here. I'm posting up what I like as I find it and thoroughly enjoying the process!

Typical of Ian blandishing me for not recognising it when I watched the DVD's LOL! Hardly anyone knows these and they're f*&king GREAT!

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

Down at the Hitsville Soul Weekender amongst all those extremely, extremely expensive records one DJ played (Allan Pollard meethinks) Earl Wright - Thumb a ride, went down a storm. C'mon hands up who apart from me has done the air-sax to this great tune ??

Everyone Chris. It's de rigeur in the Northern Soul academy of life!

Plus, a truly brilliant instrumental of course. EXACTLY what you wanted to hear at a nighter in those days. Sheer magic.

Ian D

[Dave Moore]

Down at the Hitsville Soul Weekender amongst all those extremely, extremely expensive records one DJ played (Allan Pollard meethinks) Earl Wright - Thumb a ride, went down a storm. C'mon hands up who apart from me has done the air-sax to this great tune ??

I also played 'Brown Sugar' at some stage of the proceedings. 'Tis a great stormer, that's for sure. Happy memories!

[Chris L]

I also played 'Brown Sugar' at some stage of the proceedings. 'Tis a great stormer, that's for sure. Happy memories!

On my first record hunting trip to the US in 1999 I paid a handsome $3.00 for a copy of this gem.......... a great "11.00PM" choon or one to revive the spirits later in the night/morning.................

[Guest]

They're back! Can't beat a monster instrumental IMO.

The only reason I found 'em was I was still trying to get to the bottom of the David Ruffin multiple versions of "Hurt The One You Love" scenario and I stumbled into the Watts 103rd Street Strings on the same album as "Cafe Regio's" - Gary The Master Blaster!

I reckon that since the album sold jack plus Ian's 'reputation' would have put off a lot of people, most people have probably never heard this stuff. I certainly hadn't, even though I've had the album since it was released. I never played it and listened to the music on it's own merits because I had "Levine Fatigue" at the time and thought it could be a case of 'same old, same old' if you see what I mean.

However, I'm now listening to this stuff with fresh ears and less preconceptions and getting some lovely surprises along the line. This whole process is happening very organically and very publically so I've really no agenda here. I'm posting up what I like as I find it and thoroughly enjoying the process!

Typical of Ian blandishing me for not recognising it when I watched the DVD's LOL! Hardly anyone knows these and they're f*&king GREAT!

Ian D

I tell you what you will like.

The sequel album in 2001 was called "Don't Wait Around" and had Sidney Barnes on it, but there's a remade version of a Johnny Bristol song, which is track one, that will blow your ears off.

There's a copy here for the ridiculous price of £6.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dont-Wait-Around-N...2543&sr=1-1

[Guest]

These four albums are the ones you should all check out.

They were all released prior to Centre City, as follows

YOU DIDN'T SAY A WORD - 2000

DON'T WAIT AROUND - 2001

NORTHERN SOUL 2004 - 2004

SOLID GROUND - 2006

All four are chock full of my best work, and I'm much prouder of these than a lot of the Motorcity stuff, because these all sound more real.

Edited September 29, 2008 by Ian Levine

[Guest]

And these four albums are the four albums on Centre City, and these represent my finest work in my opinion, as it's taken over thirty years to get to this stage.

[Ian Dewhirst]

These four albums are the ones you should all check out.

They were all released prior to Centre City, as follows

YOU DIDN'T SAY A WORD - 2000

DON'T WAIT AROUND - 2001

NORTHERN SOUL 2004 - 2004

SOLID GROUND - 2006

All four are chock full of my best work, and I'm much prouder of these than a lot of the Motorcity stuff, because these all sound more real.

Well, I need copies of :-

DON'T WAIT AROUND - 2001

NORTHERN SOUL 2004 - 2004

SOLID GROUND - 2006

Fairly sharpish if poss. I'm in A&R mode right now LOL. This is a good time for me to catch up on this stuff before I get slogged down in other areas!

Ian D

[Hitsville Chalky]

THE AWESOME IVY JO HUNTER - -

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[Guest]

Well, I need copies of :-

DON'T WAIT AROUND - 2001

NORTHERN SOUL 2004 - 2004

SOLID GROUND - 2006

Fairly sharpish if poss. I'm in A&R mode right now LOL. This is a good time for me to catch up on this stuff before I get slogged down in other areas!

Ian D

Unfortunately I don't have any spare copies of any of those three at all.

Long deleted and long gone.

[Guest]

ALSO IAN HAVE YOU A VIDEO CLIP OF " FRANK WILSON - PROMISES TO KEEP " .... ANOTHER GREAT PRODUCTION IF YOU DON'T MIND ME SAYING SO.

I never edited a video together of it, but I actually do have footage of him in Los Angeles in 1990 on the mike, actually recording the vocal for the song.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Unfortunately I don't have any spare copies of any of those three at all.

Long deleted and long gone.

Rule No.1 : ALWAYS keep at least one copy of everything you've released, if only for your own archive!

Ian D

[Guest]

Rule No.1 : ALWAYS keep at least one copy of everything you've released, if only for your own archive!

I do.

Well mostly. Believe it or not I don't have one single copy of Venicia Wilson on vinyl.

But I do have those four CDs. I just can't give them to you.

[soul_ster]

These four albums are the ones you should all check out.

They were all released prior to Centre City, as follows

YOU DIDN'T SAY A WORD - 2000

DON'T WAIT AROUND - 2001

NORTHERN SOUL 2004 - 2004

SOLID GROUND - 2006

All four are chock full of my best work, and I'm much prouder of these than a lot of the Motorcity stuff, because these all sound more real.

just bought you didnt say a word on goldmine/soul supply on vinyl other 3 are available on cd in gemm cheap if any one is interested

[Ian Dewhirst]

I do.

Well mostly. Believe it or not I don't have one single copy of Venicia Wilson on vinyl.

But I do have those four CDs. I just can't give them to you.

No, but you can run 'em off for me can'tcha?

Ian D

[Guest]

just bought you didnt say a word on goldmine/soul supply on vinyl other 3 are available on cd in gemm cheap if any one is interested

Unfortunately the vinyl copy only has half the tracks that are on the CD, so you're gonna miss out some of the best ones.

[Guest]

No, but you can run 'em off for me can'tcha?

I shall ask Adi nicely

[Guest]

I shall ask Adi nicely

Ian - one of the sides that you championed towards the end of The Mecca ( played in the last hour ) , was Sherm ( Reb ) Nesbury " Don't Make Me Sorry " ( Cheri ) ........

Have you ever had any thoughts about reviving / remixing this 45 ? .........

Malc Burton

[Pete S]

I see the Cafio Regios 45 is up for sale - £20 for a promo - nice to see someone's gonna make some money out of it, whats that cost to press, a quid?

[Phild]

I see the Cafio Regios 45 is up for sale - £20 for a promo - nice to see someone's gonna make some money out of it, whats that cost to press, a quid?

They cost more than the general issues, as you still have to have 1000 pairs of labels printed, 95% of which just go straight in the bin. There's only a few of these available for sale. Some people like promo's, so there's a few for sale (I estimate about 20-25). It's instantly rare, higher unit cost of production so sells for a higher price. Nobody has to buy it.

Apart from that we need to sell a whole bucket load of the actual issues to even break even, let alone make money.

Phil

[Phild]

Ian - one of the sides that you championed towards the end of The Mecca ( played in the last hour ) , was Sherm ( Reb ) Nesbury " Don't Make Me Sorry " ( Cheri ) ........

Have you ever had any thoughts about reviving / remixing this 45 ? .........

Malc Burton

Sherman Nesbury used to be in The Admirations I believe.

Phil

[Pete S]

They cost more than the general issues, as you still have to have 1000 pairs of labels printed, 95% of which just go straight in the bin. There's only a few of these available for sale. Some people like promo's, so there's a few for sale (I estimate about 20-25). It's instantly rare, higher unit cost of production so sells for a higher price. Nobody has to buy it.

Apart from that we need to sell a whole bucket load of the actual issues to even break even, let alone make money.

Phil

So did you test the water to see if this warranted a release or is it just because of yours and Ian D's enthusiasm that it's come out, cos I can't see many people are going to buy this to be honest.

[Hitsville Chalky]

THANKS TO ALL THE PM'S ABOUT THIS AWESOME TRACK , STILL GOT SOME 12 INCHES FOR SALE IF INTRESTED PLEASE PM -

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[Hitsville Chalky]

A TRULY GREAT VIDEO , THANKS TO IAN -

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[Guest]

I see the Cafio Regios 45 is up for sale - £20 for a promo - nice to see someone's gonna make some money out of it, whats that cost to press, a quid?

It costs WELL over a thousand pounds to press a seven inch, whether you press twenty or press a thousand.

The cost of mastering, plus cutting lacquers, plus metalwork, plus stampers, plus labels, plus vinyl, is so excessive that no-one can make a profit at it.

That's why I can't afford to press them myself, and only too grateful and thrilled that Phil is doing it. But he won't get rich from it, I assure you.

[Guest]

So did you test the water to see if this warranted a release or is it just because of yours and Ian D's enthusiasm that it's come out, cos I can't see many people are going to buy this to be honest.

Stop it Smiffy.

I need some of my stuff to come out on seven inch. People are still blinkered and won't play stuff off CD, no matter how good it is.

[Pete S]

It costs WELL over a thousand pounds to press a seven inch, whether you press twenty or press a thousand.

The cost of mastering, plus cutting lacquers, plus metalwork, plus stampers, plus labels, plus vinyl, is so excessive that no-one can make a profit at it.

That's why I can't afford to press them myself, and only too grateful and thrilled that Phil is doing it. But he won't get rich from it, I assure you.

Well I know you are at the sharp end of the record industry but I just typed in 'record pressing facilities' into Google and the first one I went to worked out a price for me of that below including EVERYTHING - for 300 copies

TOTAL BEFORE VAT= £ 566.40

VAT (17.5%) = £ 99.12

TOTAL INCLUDING VAT = £ 665.52

[Phild]

So did you test the water to see if this warranted a release or is it just because of yours and Ian D's enthusiasm that it's come out, cos I can't see many people are going to buy this to be honest.

We're not just testing the water, the discs are in production at the factory right now. Money has been spent and will continue to be spent.

This is just the first release of a number we've committed to do. Sparked initially by my and Ian D's enthusiasm for Cafe Regio's, yes. But is now a bonafide vinyl-only record label project

There are initially 12 45's to be released at a rate of one about every 4 to 6 weeks, and we'll see after that.

How many do you need for wholesale Pete?

Phil

[Ian Dewhirst]

I see the Cafio Regios 45 is up for sale - £20 for a promo - nice to see someone's gonna make some money out of it, whats that cost to press, a quid?

Yep, pretty much. Same as Frank Wilson "Do I Love You" and in fact most records Pete!

Of course, on top of that is the meetings, phone calls, lawyers, advance, mastering, label repro, labels, MCPS, paper bags, courier costs, transport, warehouse, distribution, sales, marketing, postage, packaging, promotion, other overhead costs and of course the large amount of time involved in getting all the above done.

A normal company would need to sell a few thousand copies to recoup on the above, whereas we're only doing 1000 copies. Of those, 100-150 will be used for marketing/press/promo purposes and hopefully 300-350 will most likely go directly to exporters. So if we do the remaining 500 copies in the UK we may just make a few quid. But not much for the amount of work involved.

The limited-edition record biz isn't going to make anyone rich Pete. This is a small-scale operation by a small scale company. Most people think we're nuts for even doing this as most independent record companies are long gone these days!

It's not as rosy and you may think. We may get lucky and get some radio plays here and there and that will be the difference between profit and loss by the time we've finished. Bizarre but true.

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

So did you test the water to see if this warranted a release or is it just because of yours and Ian D's enthusiasm that it's come out, cos I can't see many people are going to buy this to be honest.

There is a game plan for this Pete, but it's essentially a punt which may, or may not work. I happen to think the record's fantastic - a real unique recording which will hopefully captivate a few different audiences. It's also got a great story behind it, in that it's one of the few records that have come about really by accident - you don't get many of those these days.

The ace up the sleeve (if there is one), is the fact that so many people have contacted me about it - I'm talking people on here, people who listen to my show and texted/e-mailed after I played it (unusual in itself), numerous other radio DJ's who want to play it (it's a natural radio record if ever there was one), a couple of music biz veterans who want to be involved etc, etc and I can only hope these areas will mushroom once the record becomes available.

Fingers crossed............

Ian D

[Pete S]

There is a game plan for this Pete, but it's essentially a punt which may, or may not work. I happen to think the record's fantastic - a real unique recording which will hopefully captivate a few different audiences. It's also got a great story behind it, in that it's one of the few records that have come about really by accident - you don't get many of those these days.

The ace up the sleeve (if there is one), is the fact that so many people have contacted me about it - I'm talking people on here, people who listen to my show and texted/e-mailed after I played it (unusual in itself), numerous other radio DJ's who want to play it (it's a natural radio record if ever there was one), a couple of music biz veterans who want to be involved etc, etc and I can only hope these areas will mushroom once the record becomes available.

Fingers crossed............

Ian D

Don't get me wrong - of course I hope it does tremendously well for you, like you say, fingers crossed. I just wasn't sure about the reaction on here because even if people didn't like it, I doubt they would say so! How things change in a matter of weeks

[Ian Dewhirst]

Well I know you are at the sharp end of the record industry but I just typed in 'record pressing facilities' into Google and the first one I went to worked out a price for me of that below including EVERYTHING - for 300 copies

TOTAL BEFORE VAT= £ 566.40

VAT (17.5%) = £ 99.12

TOTAL INCLUDING VAT = £ 665.52

That's just for the pressing of the physical record and that's coming in @ just under £2 a copy.

It's the other stuff that adds up. I spent around 12 hours in the car last Friday and £40 in Petrol just getting things from one place to another and attending the mastering session etc, etc. So that was a whole day out and if you calculate my time @ say, £10.00 per hour = £120.00 plus around £60.00 in expenses that's £180.00. Multiply that by a few days and it soon adds up!

Not that I'm charging that of course, but every day I take out, is a day I'm not actually earning anything.

I won't be opening the champagne anytime soon mate. And there'll be a fair percentage of nail-biting to get to break-even I bet.

Ian D

[Guest]

Well I know you are at the sharp end of the record industry but I just typed in 'record pressing facilities' into Google and the first one I went to worked out a price for me of that below including EVERYTHING - for 300 copies

TOTAL BEFORE VAT= £ 566.40

VAT (17.5%) = £ 99.12

TOTAL INCLUDING VAT = £ 665.52

That can't include the labels, and it most certainly can't include the mastering of the lacquers to make the pressings from.

£665 sounds right if you add on the two hundred quid for the labels and the three hundred quid for the mastering, which makes £1165, which is about right.

[Guest]

Yep, pretty much. Same as Frank Wilson "Do I Love You" and in fact most records Pete!

Of course, on top of that is the meetings, phone calls, lawyers, advance, mastering, label repro, labels, MCPS

Yes and I forgot to add on the MCPS to what I said to Smiffy.

[soul_ster]

Unfortunately the vinyl copy only has half the tracks that are on the CD, so you're gonna miss out some of the best ones.

then i shall buy my first ever cd,thanks

[Guest]

then i shall buy my first ever cd,thanks

The vinyl album is rare (I never even had a copy) and well worth getting, but there are 23 tracks on the CD, and they're almost all wonderful.

[Pete S]

That can't include the labels, and it most certainly can't include the mastering of the lacquers to make the pressings from.

£665 sounds right if you add on the two hundred quid for the labels and the three hundred quid for the mastering, which makes £1165, which is about right.

includes 2 colour label and all mastering

[Guest]

includes 2 colour label and all mastering

Then you have found the bargain of the century. Where are they located ??

Are you SURE about the mastering ????

What about a four colour label ???

[Guest Paul]

Hello Pete,

Don't forget costs for other things such as pre-mastering, label design and origination, proofs and films, licensing advance, legal costs, mechanical licensee fees and various carriage charges, all subject to VAT at 17.5%, plus other general expenses, marketing costs and everyday business overheads.

Not all record companies use the kind of 'package deals' you referred to. Some companies want 60 test pressings or they want more colourful labels, different labels for promo copies, special sleeves, stickers, rubber stamps, bar codes etc.

In my case, for example, all Selecta / Shotgun singles are digitally mastered in an expensive studio and then cut on copper plates by top engineers at EMI Abbey Road who deliver the plates to the plant via courier. And the Shotgun label is metallic silver, needing a non-standard ink and an additional printing operation. These are examples of huge unseen costs.

I could do some things a little cheaper (especially by using overseas plants) but I like to use the best and I like to support what's left of the British industry.

I've manufactured hundreds of records for many labels and I've never known a 7" single cost less than £1000 + VAT. Most are considerably more.

If a specialist label can sell a few copies direct to the public it just helps to recover some of the costs. Sadly, most vinyl singles just don't sell many copies these days.

Best regards,

Paul

P.S. I forgot to mention the huge executive salaries and bonuses!

Edited September 30, 2008 by Paul

[Guest Paul]

Hello again Pete,

I just noticed your quote of £665.52 was for only 300 copies. That works out at £2.22 per unit, without any of the extra costs and fees I mentioned in the previous post.

Most companies press singles in batches of 600 or 1000 copies.

It looks quite expensive to me.

Paul

Edited September 30, 2008 by Paul

[Guest]

I've manufactured hundreds of records for many labels and I've never known a 7" single cost less than £1000 + VAT. Most are considerably more.

I know for a fact that Les McCutcheon of Passion Music manufactures them for Kev Roberts and charges him £1100 plus VAT.

I let Kev manufacture my Gerod Harris single and this is what it cost him.

[Guest]

Something to enjoy today

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[Ian Dewhirst]

Test pressings on "Cafe Regio's" today @ 12.30pm! Wil be trying out in a West End venue later tonight!

Ian D

[Pete S]

Hello again Pete,

I just noticed your quote of £665.52 was for only 300 copies. That works out at £2.22 per unit, without any of the extra costs and fees I mentioned in the previous post.

Most companies press singles in batches of 600 or 1000 copies.

It looks quite expensive to me.

Paul

Paul, firstly, I clicked on the very first website that came up on google, I only did it for 300 because thats all a Northern reissue could expect to sell, if they cost me 2.22 and I sell them at 10.00 then I am laughing all the way to the bank, and as long as I have a hole in my arse, they are not going to sell 1000 copies of Cafe Regios. And of course my imaginary record would be a bootleg so I wouldn't be paying any royalties.

[Guest Paul]

Paul, firstly, I clicked on the very first website that came up on google, I only did it for 300 because thats all a Northern reissue could expect to sell, if they cost me 2.22 and I sell them at 10.00 then I am laughing all the way to the bank, and as long as I have a hole in my arse, they are not going to sell 1000 copies of Cafe Regios. And of course my imaginary record would be a bootleg so I wouldn't be paying any royalties.

You'd make a fortune, Pete, especially if you didn't pay any license fees, royalties and taxes.

And you're right about the quantities sold these days. Many specialist 45s don't even sell 300 copies. But the vast majority of those copies are sold through dealers and retailers who buy them from the record company at around £4.00 or £5.00 (including carriage).

But it all goes to show that bootleggers can make a profit even on a low-selling record ...unless and until someone catches up with them.

Best regards,

Paul

[Pete S]

You'd make a fortune, Pete, especially if you didn't pay any license fees, royalties and taxes.

And you're right about the quantities sold these days. Many specialist 45s don't even sell 300 copies. But the vast majority of those copies are sold through dealers and retailers who buy them from the record company at around £4.00 or £5.00 (including carriage).

But it all goes to show that bootleggers can make a profit even on a low-selling record ...unless and until someone catches up with them.

Best regards,

Paul

Well our friend in Wales must be a millionaire by now, even more new titles coming out by the looks of it

[Guest Paul]

Well our friend in Wales must be a millionaire by now, even more new titles coming out by the looks of it

I've been too busy to keep an eye on things but I've heard they're still at it.

Time to have another browse on eBay. It's about time they had a special section for "bootlegs".

[Pete S]

You'd make a fortune, Pete, especially if you didn't pay any license fees, royalties and taxes.

Before anyone starts - it was just a figure of speech. I have no interest in making a record unless it's off my boy singing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star

[Ian Dewhirst]

Before anyone starts - it was just a figure of speech. I have no interest in making a record unless it's off my boy singing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star

Too late mate. It's there in black and white and now enshrined in history!

Soul Police are on their way round as we speak........

Ian D

[paup-ine]

THANKS TO ALL THE PM'S ABOUT THIS AWESOME TRACK , STILL GOT SOME 12 INCHES FOR SALE IF INTRESTED PLEASE PM -

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