Ian Levine, Motorcity, Centre City, Blackpool Mecca, And Swons

[Peter99]

Maybe that's where you're going wrong Ian, this is a thread, out there is real life.

I'd gladly have a beer with you or anyone on this thread, infact we'd have quite a lot in common, NS, Dr Who, i also like a lot of your High Energy stuff, infact the only stuff i don't really like is the stuff i call 'NS soundalike' but we better not go there!

Simon

Are you buying Simon?

[Guest Simon]

Are you buying Simon?

I am Pete, what's yer tipple?

Simon

[Ted Massey]

SHOULD'NT THIS BE IN FREEBASHING NOW THERES NO MUSICAL DISCUSSIONS AND ITS GETTING F**** BORING IMO

[Peter99]

I am Pete, what's yer tipple?

Simon

I'll just have a pint with yer Simon! Any time buddy.

[Neil Rushton]

Generally, I was hoping you might help me put a few untruths to rights on here, Neil.

Well I did point out that the K-Klass remix of Frances Nero is Soulful.

Which other untruths are you on about? I've only dipped in and out of this topic and am defintiely not up to date.

What I would say:

1 - From working with Ian on SWONS I know his motive/mission was to make an historical record of the Northern Soul scene, not to make a profit. I wouldn't have minded making a profit but once Ian decided he wanted to include 131 artists or whatever the total was there was no chance of that.

2 - Pat Brady called SWONS "a flawed maserpice" which is prety good description.

3 - Ian falls out with people like most people breathe. He fell out with me 3 weeks ago. But whether you liike it or not he loves Soul music and has done more than most to promote it.He also says some pretty terrible things about people and then gets surprised when there is a comeback.

4 - Who else would have had the energy to track down the artists for the film?. Some of the original videos were pretty limited but they have been improved/re-edited now, as Soul fans don't you want to see footage of Sidney Barnes, The Gems, Bobby Hebb,Edwin Starr, Kim Weston, Mel Britt, The Younghearts, The Vel-Vets etc?.

I don't think it matters that much that the backing tracks don't sound like the originals, to me it was all about the footage.

I got goosebumps when the video of Fred Hughes singing "Oo Wee Baby I Love You" appeared a few years ago, but I get the same feeling watching Edwin Starr "I Have Faith In you" - from SWONS.

But even if you hate the end product from SWONS surely ian deserves respect for having a goI?

I have in the past also seen people coming up with some bullshit about the acts being ripped off. Some - like The Dells - gpt money upfront. Most are on 50/50 profit splits so that if a profit is made, 50% ot is split pro-ratra between the acts featured on the videos. As the film has not made a profit - IE IAN HAS NOT GOT THIS INVESTMENT BACK - there is no profit to split.

But royalties have been paid for all the songs used so SWONs has generated new income for songwriters.

6 - I have only met up with Paul Sadot once and he seemed alright to me. And Dave Rimmer is a sound chap.

7 - How come nobody has not pointed out what a great floater Evelyn Thomas "My Head's In The Stars" is.?

Neil

[Guest moggy]

Sorry you feel like that Ted

Would you like to hear about my visit to the Barbers

Well, when I got there he had left a note saying back at 3.15

and the bastard never showed till 3.45 I had been waiting since 3.00

I told him straight "you have no soul"

[Guest Bogue]

SHOULD'NT THIS BE IN FREEBASHING NOW THERES NO MUSICAL DISCUSSIONS AND ITS GETTING F**** BORING IMO

Seems to have stopped the fighting though Ted

Just one more quick OT

The thread seems to be having a profound effect on some people.........................

Moggy has just got back from his haircut

[Guest moggy]

Seems to have stopped the fighting though Ted

Just one more quick OT

The thread seems to be having a profound effect on some people.........................

Moggy has just got back from his haircut

Bouge you fooker where did you get my head from F AS F

[Guest Bogue]

Bouge you fooker where did you get my head from F AS F

What bloody great timing too eh

[Val (Chunky)]

Ian, just read this thread

https://voices.washingtonpost.com/rawfisher...ger_finall.html

About Lorraine Rudolph. Here is a singer that has soooo much soul in her voice, and looks like she needs a helping hand. How about getting her to do an updated "Keep coming back for more"? She deserves it.

Don't touch that song........it's perfect

[Guest moggy]

What bloody great timing too eh

It sure is

[SteveM]

Seems to have stopped the fighting though Ted

Just one more quick OT

The thread seems to be having a profound effect on some people.........................

Moggy has just got back from his haircut

Bogue, any idea why I keep hearing banjo music in my head ?

[SteveM]

Bouge you fooker where did you get my head from F AS F

Have you seen the Alan Partridge episode where the crazed fan/stalker has a room with AP's photos all over the walls................................

[Peter99]

Sorry you feel like that Ted

Would you like to hear about my visit to the Barbers

Well, when I got there he had left a note saying back at 3.15

and the bastard never showed till 3.45 I had been waiting since 3.00

I told him straight "you have no soul"

Did he cut yer fookin ears off Moggy?

You going to Rugby next week?

A little of topic I know.

[Peter99]

Seems to have stopped the fighting though Ted

Just one more quick OT

The thread seems to be having a profound effect on some people.........................

Moggy has just got back from his haircut

He looks like fookin Vlads half brother!

[Guest Bogue]

Have you seen the Alan Partridge episode where the crazed fan/stalker has a room with AP's photos all over the walls................................

Stop these ot's now else i'll get my arse smacked again !

On a serious note though, does anyone like me find a lot of this thread a bit sadening ? All the arguing & posturing is just getting past a joke, riviting though it may be.

I think all parties in the argument are equally to blame so would it not be better to close this thread & let IL start another, if he wants to, where people who want to talk with him about his music on a positive level only can go & do such. And anyone who (& this includes me) dosen't really enjoy it can just stay out. Under the pains of suspension from the site if they don't !

Edited September 5, 2008 by Bogue

[Ady Croasdell]

Well I did point out that the K-Klass remix of Frances Nero is Soulful.

Which other untruths are you on about? I've only dipped in and out of this topic and am defintiely not up to date.

What I would say:

1 - From working with Ian on SWONS I know his motive/mission was to make an historical record of the Northern Soul scene, not to make a profit. I wouldn't have minded making a profit but once Ian decided he wanted to include 131 artists or whatever the total was there was no chance of that.

2 - Pat Brady called SWONS "a flawed maserpice" which is prety good description.

3 - Ian falls out with people like most people breathe. He fell out with me 3 weeks ago. But whether you liike it or not he loves Soul music and has done more than most to promote it.He also says some pretty terrible things about people and then gets surprised when there is a comeback.

4 - Who else would have had the energy to track down the artists for the film?. Some of the original videos were pretty limited but they have been improved/re-edited now, as Soul fans don't you want to see footage of Sidney Barnes, The Gems, Bobby Hebb,Edwin Starr, Kim Weston, Mel Britt, The Younghearts, The Vel-Vets etc?.

I don't think it matters that much that the backing tracks don't sound like the originals, to me it was all about the footage.

I got goosebumps when the video of Fred Hughes singing "Oo Wee Baby I Love You" appeared a few years ago, but I get the same feeling watching Edwin Starr "I Have Faith In you" - from SWONS.

But even if you hate the end product from SWONS surely ian deserves respect for having a goI?

I have in the past also seen people coming up with some bullshit about the acts being ripped off. Some - like The Dells - gpt money upfront. Most are on 50/50 profit splits so that if a profit is made, 50% ot is split pro-ratra between the acts featured on the videos. As the film has not made a profit - IE IAN HAS NOT GOT THIS INVESTMENT BACK - there is no profit to split.

But royalties have been paid for all the songs used so SWONs has generated new income for songwriters.

6 - I have only met up with Paul Sadot once and he seemed alright to me. And Dave Rimmer is a sound chap.

7 - How come nobody has not pointed out what a great floater Evelyn Thomas "My Head's In The Stars" is.?

Neil

The voice of reason at last.

My only slight beef with SWONS was that the artists I helped Ian get didn't get complementary copies for themselves, I think at the time one of you said it was too expensive to convert to the US system but I hadn't found it too bad when I did it for Tony Middleton and Mary Love a few years before. The artists generally performed for the fun of it or the exposure, I don't think many of the ones I helped with got paid so it would have (still would) been nice for them to see their work. Perhaps this could be done now, though its too late for Little Ann and a few others.

I enjoyed SWONS greatly and helped where I could until a separate fall out later.

You're wrong about Rimmer though!

[Dave Rimmer]

Which other untruths are you on about? I've only dipped in and out of this topic and am defintiely not up to date.

And Dave Rimmer is a sound chap.

Neil

Thanks Neil, (and thanks Mikey for what you said)

And I'll correct an untruth again !

I didn't say Ian Levine was a disgrace and an embarassment to the scene, I said his actions in perpetrating a deliberate fraud (ie sending copies of the Four Vandals to the States and denying they were anything to do with him) were a disgrace and an embarassment to the scene.

And I still think they were, and struggle to believe anyone would think any different. This was a deliberate attempt to defraud every person who considers themselves a member of the Northern Soul scene ! I stand by what I said.

For this I was called a member of the Hitler Youth (A well thought out response I had to concede, a little racist, because I'm English and probably wouldn't have been allowed to join because we were at war with Germany then, and technically incorrect, because I'm nearly fifty, and am almost certainly too old to qualify for membership, but hey, who needs accuracy )

There is of course a subtle difference between calling Ian Levine, and calling Ian Levine's actions, a disgrace and an embarassment to the scene. Of course it all depends on your comprehension of the way the English language is used, and I can't be held responsible for a lack of comprehension in others.

It's been fun reading this thread, but I won't be back on here for a while.

[Neil Rushton]

The voice of reason at last.

My only slight beef with SWONS was that the artists I helped Ian get didn't get complementary copies for themselves, I think at the time one of you said it was too expensive to convert to the US system but I hadn't found it too bad when I did it for Tony Middleton and Mary Love a few years before. The artists generally performed for the fun of it or the exposure, I don't think many of the ones I helped with got paid so it would have (still would) been nice for them to see their work. Perhaps this could be done now, though its too late for Little Ann and a few others.

COULDN'T AGREE MORE. I REMEMBER IT WAS TOO EXPENSIVE FOR EVERYONE TO HAVE A BOX SET.

I enjoyed SWONS greatly and helped where I could until a separate fall out later.

You're wrong about Rimmer though!

[Dave Rimmer]

You're wrong about Rimmer though!

[Ady Croasdell]

You're back quick!

[chrissie]

It sure is

Has your bold type face button broken

QoFxx

[SteveM]

You're back quick!

He loves the spotlight Ady

[Neil Rushton]

Thanks Neil, (and thanks Mikey for what you said)

And I'll correct an untruth again !

I didn't say Ian Levine was a disgrace and an embarassment to the scene, I said his actions in perpetrating a deliberate fraud (ie sending copies of the Four Vandals to the States and denying they were anything to do with him) were a disgrace and an embarassment to the scene.

And I still think they were, and struggle to believe anyone would think any different. This was a deliberate attempt to defraud every person who considers themselves a member of the Northern Soul scene ! I stand by what I said.

For this I was called a member of the Hitler Youth (A well thought out response I had to concede, a little racist, because I'm English and probably wouldn't have been allowed to join because we were at war with Germany then, and technically incorrect, because I'm nearly fifty, and am almost certainly too old to qualify for membership, but hey, who needs accuracy )

There is of course a subtle difference between calling Ian Levine, and calling Ian Levine's actions, a disgrace and an embarassment to the scene. Of course it all depends on your comprehension of the way the English language is used, and I can't be held responsible for a lack of comprehension in others.

It was also pretty embarrassing that anyone could think the Four Vandals was an original track from the sixities when it patently was not.

And a bit sad that if Ian had just come out and said it was a new recording made by him it would have been rejected out of hand - but because of the hype it became in demand. Or am I wrong about that?.

By the way if anyone has a demo of "My Head's In The Stars" I would be very happy to buy if from them. Please PM me if you have one for sale.

[Guest]

What would the motives be for not wanting Soul music played Malc?

Did they consider it too low-brow or something?

The Rubettes is OK, but not Elouise Laws?

This was 1972 , and the management of the Mecca establishment where I worked , believed that playing soul music would deter the people from attending , stating that paying punter wanted to hear chart and pop sounds , hence them putting a block on it being played .......

That is the reason for asking the original question of Ian , in respect of the ally they had in Bill Pye at Blackpool ......

It was quite ironic , that the Mecca venue I had worked at which vetoed soul music , had to resort to the music being added to the playlist again several years later , in order to bring in the punters to boost falling attendences .......

Malc Burton

Edited September 5, 2008 by Malc Burton

[Guest moggy]

He looks like fookin Vlads half brother!

Pete

fook off, I look like a gay bloke who wants to try his luck at record producing

Yes I am going to Rugby

Dave Rimmer in knee high boots feasible

Edited September 5, 2008 by moggy

[Guest]

I know Ian, i was speaking more generally about this & the real world being two completely different animals.

Most people probably yourself included would be a lot different if we were conducting this thread over a beer in the pub suffice to say it would probably be a lot calmer.

Simon

I'd rather have a curry than a beer in a pub. I'm not really a pub person.

[Mach]

You're back quick!

..funny

[Guest]

SHOULD'NT THIS BE IN FREEBASHING NOW THERES NO MUSICAL DISCUSSIONS AND ITS GETTING F**** BORING IMO

Hi Tedsoul

I posted all this earlier today

1 - I feel I have more than paid my dues. I started in 1970 when I went to The Wheel, and was out and about week in week out till July 1979, sometimes DJing seven days a week. From 1971 till 1979 I DJ'd on the Northern Soul scene without a break. I endured the nastiness at The Ritz when Wigan suporters kicked off against the Mecca lads. I endured a twelve foot banner being marched through the Highland Room saying "Levine Must Go". In July 1979, I moved to London and was headhunted by Heaven, to be the DJ when it first opened playing classic style New York Disco to a 2000 strong gay crowd, initially DJing five nights a week. I lasted at Heaven till 1989. During this period, I vowed I had had enough of the Northern Soul scene and sold most of my records off, and only DJ'd at one big event, a reunion that Richard Searling staged in 1983, with me, Colin Curtis, Tony Jebb, and Les Cokell, at which J.J. Barnes sang live, in Manchester. But during this period we did have several Northern Soul nights and several amzingly successful Motown nights at Heaven.

From 1983 to 1986 I had an unprecedented run of pop success with High Energy music, but used all the money it earned to indulge myself in a lifelong dream. From 1987 to 1992 I pursued my lifelong ambition and recorded the Motorcity project, over eight hundred songs across 108 artists who were all former Motown acts, and nearly lost my house over it, and everything I relied on.

In 1997 I was at a Crossroads in my life and my friend Ralph Tee suggested, as I was getting into making video documentaries, that I return to my first love, Northern Soul, and chronicle the history of it.

A project that was initially supposed to be three hours long and thirty performances turned into a twelve hour set, with 131 performances, and then on DVD ointo a 24 hour set, as I included all the priceless stuff we'd filmed in Detroit while recording Motorcity.

This got me travelling all over the country filming clubs and dancers, and once the bug had bitten, I returned to DJing in 1998 when Richard Searling asked me to return to The Ritz.

Then in November 1998 came our amazing Blackpool Mecca Reunion, with 1000 people crammed into the Highland Room that could only hold six hundred tops.

I DJ'd anywhere and everywhere till 2003, but I am a record producer and have been for thirty three years, and the apathy of the Northern Soul scene to anything that bore my name, resulted in The Four Vandals and Venicia Wilson, just to prove a point. The success with which I proved that point, the about-turn everyone did once they found out, the emnity, and the horror of what happened at The Rocket, finally weaned me off going to Northern Soul clubs for good. In fact last year when Gavin and I went to Northampton, the crap was still there, as I explained earlier. The fact that some posters on here even sounded sympathetic to that pathetic woman who so ruined it for me is a great cause for concern for me.

I have said it before and I will say it again, no doubt.

I LOVE THE MUSIC BUT I BLOODY HATE THE SCENE.

And that rings so so true.

Plus, I believe in the music that I make with every fibre of my being.

I have no desire, none whatsoever, to go visit a club that wouldn't play one of my records. That's like throwing acid in my face.

I trust this answers question one.

2 - Northern Soul always was a term to describe a sound, a Motown type feel. I don't give a flying fig what today's "Movers and Shakers", as Dave Godin used to call them, think the term now means, I use it as it was always intended to be used. If it stomps along with strings and vibes and augmented ninths and minor sevenths and "Doo doo dooooo doop" backing vocals, then it's Northern Soul, whether it was recorded in 1967 by George Kerr, or in 2008 by Ian Levine. As long as the basic sound is true.

Similarly, 1959 rock and roll records are NOT Northern Soul, and never will be, even if they are played at every single rare soul night in the country.

3 - I have made some bloody good records. If someone says that every one of them is not to their taste, then it's painfully obvious that it's because it's a personal thing. The Four Vandals and Venicia Wilson proved that beyond any shadow of a doubt. And as I said already, I have no desire to set foot in a club that wouldn't play one of my records, or to have the misery of hearing someone like Soul Sam DJ, knowing his raison d'etre, knowing he would commit hari-kari with bamboo shoots rather than play a record produced by me, and I am too long in the tooth to subject myself to such one-sided intransigence, as I find it nothing more than painful. His reviews in Manifesto demonstrate the most closed mind that I have ever encountered, and it becomes clear from his writing how biased he is against any record I make, even prior to hearing it, then using it to purposely try to sow seeds of discontent, and hold it up as a yardstick of ridicule, something he had pre-determined before he heard the first bar.

People on here can slag me all they like, but it's not going to change me, only make me more determined. For years I endured a huge amaount of vitriol directed at me from Soul Source members. I made the mistake of thinking they spoke for the majority which they don't. But those few who are filled with venom do make it a very unpleasant task for me posting on here, because with every post they make, my hatred of them grows exponentially, till in the end, they just blur into one as "the enemy". There are three in particular that have really made me weary of it all. And wonder why I other. Then I listen back to Fay Jones singing "You Threw A Lucky Punch" and Nat Augustin singing "Love Is My Sanctuary", and I realise that no old bigoted closed minded fool can take away my joy at how great I think they sound, and how artistically and creatively satisfied I am with them.

I hope that has successfully answered all three of your questions.

It took a long time to type and it was extremely musical, so I thought.

Don't you think ???

[Guest]

From working with Ian on SWONS I know his motive/mission was to make an historical record of the Northern Soul scene, not to make a profit. I wouldn't have minded making a profit but once Ian decided he wanted to include 131 artists or whatever the total was there was no chance of that.

I'm glad you said this, after I have been accused of being a businessman who's not interested in the music.

Thankyou Neil.

[Guest]

Ian falls out with people like most people breathe. He fell out with me 3 weeks ago.

That's not true.

I love you.

Deeply and most sincerely.

You have been my dear friend for thirty four years now, and I was one of your star DJs as long ago as 1976.

I did not fall out with you, you fell out with me, because you couldn't get me to agree something that I was just not going to agree, and you couldn't twist me round your finger. So you got the hump and put the phone down.

But with the sad bereavement you have had, my thoughts are with you and I understand totally that you weren't acting your self, and you have all my deepest love and support always.

And always will have, Neil.

[Guest]

Who else would have had the energy to track down the artists for the film?. Some of the original videos were pretty limited but they have been improved/re-edited now

And HOW they have been improved. I just watched Gwen Owens and was speechless at how it looks. A BILLION times improved, I felt the tears well up as I watched it, able to marvel that we created something so visually beautiful, and how technology has enabled us now, in 2008, to make the package that I always wanted to create way back in 1998, but couldn't.

[Guest]

But royalties have been paid for all the songs used so SWONs has generated new income for songwriters.

This is absolutely true.

Every writer of every song gets paid for every sale of every DVD.

Paul Mooney publishes some of those songs. I'm certain he will corroborate this.

[Guest]

How come nobody has not pointed out what a great floater Evelyn Thomas "My Head's In The Stars" is.?

There has never been a video of it till now. After thirty two years, she was here in June and we filmed her doing it, especially for this box set, and it is beautiful and you will get goose bumps from it.

In the meantime, as I don't have it available yet to post up, here's Gee Morris's version of the same song.

">

[Pauldonnelly]

That's not true.

I love you.

Deeply and most sincerely.

You have been my dear friend for thirty four years now, and I was one of your star DJs as long ago as 1976.

I did not fall out with you, you fell out with me, because you couldn't get me to agree something that I was just not going to agree, and you couldn't twist me round your finger. So you got the hump and put the phone down.

But with the sad bereavement you have had, my thoughts are with you and I understand totally that you weren't acting your self, and you have all my deepest love and support always.

And always will have, Neil.

sorry but thats me finished with this thread for so many reasons..

cya

[Pete S]

sorry but thats me finished with this thread for so many reasons..

cya

Goodness me, why, I thought that was quite touching.

Wish I had friends who appreciated me like that!

[Guest]

My only slight beef with SWONS was that the artists I helped Ian get didn't get complementary copies for themselves, I think at the time one of you said it was too expensive to convert to the US system but I hadn't found it too bad when I did it for Tony Middleton and Mary Love a few years before. The artists generally performed for the fun of it or the exposure, I don't think many of the ones I helped with got paid so it would have (still would) been nice for them to see their work. Perhaps this could be done now, though its too late for Little Ann and a few others.

I enjoyed SWONS greatly and helped where I could until a separate fall out later.

And despite anything else, I am still incredibly grateful for your help and support with it.

And the reason I put so many videos on YouTube is because it lets all the artists see them and use them. Pat Lewis has linked to all seven videos we did onto her MySpace page, and Mary Love linked to my video of "Lay This Burden Down". YouTube converts the videos so everyone can see them no matter where you are in the world.

And for Little Ann, Emanuel Lasky, Bob Relf, James Fountain, Tommy Ridgley, The Tempos, Jackie Day, Freddy Butler, Erma Franklin, Bobby Sheen, and so many others who have passed away, I am so glad I made something that allows them and their wonderful artistry to be remembered after their passing.

[Guest gordon russell]

theres loads of you reading this right now....hello ......

[Guest]

And a bit sad that if Ian had just come out and said it was a new recording made by him it would have been rejected out of hand - but because of the hype it became in demand. Or am I wrong about that?.

No you are 100% spot on.

How come no-one ever criticised Butch for buying it for fifty quid and selling it to Ginger for £800 ??? Yet they criticise me for making it.

[Guest DonnaD]

theres loads of you reading this right now....hello ......

hello

[Dave]

The internet allows cowards and self-opinionated tossers to make nuisances of themselves and harrass professionals. It happens even worse in the world of Doctor Who fandom, and there, as in here, I have no patience or tolerance threshold with it.

Good point.. there are indeed cowards on the internet.

Give me a brave 18 stone man who assaults women with his elbow any old day of the week!

[Guest]

Goodness me, why, I thought that was quite touching.

Wish I had friends who appreciated me like that!

I appreciate you, Pete.

When someone is a friend, I am actually fiercely loyal to them.

I have no idea why that guy, Paul Donnely, took offence. None at all. I thought I was being totally genuine

[Pete S]

Good point.. there are indeed cowards on the internet.

Give me a brave 18 stone man who assaults women with his elbow any old day of the week!

Are you sh*gging her or something?

[Guest]

theres loads of you reading this right now....hello .

Hello

[Guest]

Good point.. there are indeed cowards on the internet.

Give me a brave 18 stone man who assaults women with his elbow any old day of the week!

And I would do it again in a second if she was going out of her way to ruin something that was important, out of vicious spite, and behaving like a total inconsiderate cow at the same time.

Even her husband was embarrassed about it, but she had obviously nagged him into coming over.

Why are you so bothered by this. Does the fact she was female make her sacred or something ????

[Guest Paul]

The voice of reason at last.

My only slight beef with SWONS was that the artists I helped Ian get didn't get complementary copies for themselves...

Hello

This is a fair point which often comes up. I bought a copy for one artist and have also copied brief sections for others.

But to be fair to Ian, I understand he was only allowed so many complimentary copies by Wienerworld and, sadly, that wasn't nearly enough to supply 179 featured artists.

Best regards,

Paul Mooney

[Pauldonnelly]

Goodness me, why, I thought that was quite touching.

Wish I had friends who appreciated me like that!

My freinds would have never posted such personal stuff on an open forum Pete, Id like to think they had more respect for me.

It would appear to some that IL is reaching for the sympathy vote in his quest for foot soldiers.

Imo he's a Northern soul legend for so many reasons he's also the most sycophantic indvidual I have EVER come across.

Cya

[SteveM]

Does the fact she was female make her sacred or something ????

That one post shows just how out of touch with reality you really are. You whinge and whine on here when anybody dares criticise you, yet you're quite happy bragging about manhandling a woman.

I'm suprised you didn't get your mate to do it for you.

[Guest moggy]

Are you sh*gging her or something?

Are you sh***ng Ian

[Pete S]

Are you sh***ng Ian

Am I shaving Ian? I think he can do that himself.