Ian Levine, Motorcity, Centre City, Blackpool Mecca, And Swons

[Guest]

Well one was influenced by "Dreaming A Dream" and the other by "Tow Away Zone". Just a mild influence and a homage, but I thought you might have realised that.

Two creditable productions of yours in my estimation Ian , are " Major Investment " - Sylvia Moy , and " Suddenly I'm Alive " by Doris Jones .......

Malc Burton

[Billy Freemantle]

Marv Johnson was one of my dearest friends, and the most loyal artist I have ever had.

He was the very first artist to launch the entire Motown record company. His first single, "Come To Me", was the very first record on the Tamla label, in 1958, Tamla 101. Berry Gordy had no money to distribute it, so Berry and Marv went all round Detroit themselves, and sold the singles from out of their car boots. It started to create a local buzz in Detroit, and they couldn't afford to press and promote it, so they sold the rights to United Artists. The rest is history. This version of that very very first release on the Tamla label was one of the first things we cut for the Motorcity Project. I had dreamed of taking the very first Motown release and giving it a 1980s House Music flavour, and here it is. A piece of history. The original version, way way back in 1958, was of course a fair sized hit, but the follow up, "You Got What It Takes" made number one in the pop charts. Of course Berry had done a ridiculous deal, and they earned a mere pittance, but what pittance there was earned, was used to found the entire Motown operation, and for Berry's fiancee, Raynoma, to buy the house in West Grand Boulevard, which became Hitsville USA. It took Berry five years before he could get Marv away from United Artists, by which time, with huge hits from The Marvelettes, Martha and the Vandellas, Barrett Strong, and of course The Miracles, Marv got left behind and his career neglected. By the mid to late sixties, he was still recording at Motown, but to earn his keep, he'd been relegated to the job of janitor, a tragedy considering there would have been no Motown without Marv,. Marv lived to sing, loved to record for Motorcity, and out of all 108 former Motown artists that we recorded, he had to be the most loyal and the most grateful of all of them. He stayed at my house so many times, he did so many shows for us, both in England and in Detroit, and he was always so proud of having a career again in the limelight. "Come To Me" was one of his very first recordings for Motorcity, and we eventually did enough for two albums. Marv was always a gentleman, and always so appreciative for anything you might do for him. He was so excited to go on the Joan Rivers Show, the one with all the old Motown artists, and on it, he not only mentioned me, but particularly he thanked my Mother for all her support to keep Motorcity going. Then in 1993, Marv was on stage in Carolina with the Drifters, and he staggered oddly while on stage, fumbled his way to the side of the stage, and dropped dead of a burst blood vessell in his brain. He was singing one minute and dead the next. But if he could have chosen any way in the world to go, there is no way he would rather have gone than singing and performing live to an appreciative audience, right up to his last minute on this Earth.

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[Guest]

Brilliant. I've always thought that Marv had one of the sweetest and most natural falsettos in music. How was his voice when speaking?

Lower than his falsetto.

[Chris L]

You've got it all wrong.

Billy Jackson said to steer clear of Chris Jackson (no relation) and that he was trouble.

And I know Dave Godin had lots of trouble with him.

But Van McCoy worked with Chris Bartley, but not Chris Jackson.

B*ll*cks Ian, I wrote an article on Van McCoy and spoke to Mattie, she was getting ready for some

Van McCoy memorial and wanted me to put her in touch with Chris Bartley, which I did, I asked

about Chris (aka Marke) Jackson, she told me they located him somewhere in Chicago and tried

talking to him but he gave her the run around her words were "stay away from him his crazy"

"I'll never forget you" was arranged, conducted and produced by Van McCoy. Chris Bartley knew him

well and concurred that he was a nutter...so stick that in your Dalek and smoke it

[Guest]

B*ll*cks Ian, I wrote an article on Van McCoy and spoke to Mattie, she was getting ready for some

Van McCoy memorial and wanted me to put her in touch with Chris Bartley, which I did, I asked

about Chris (aka Marke) Jackson, she told me they located him somewhere in Chicago and tried

talking to him but he gave her the run around her words were "stay away from him his crazy"

"I'll never forget you" was arranged, conducted and produced by Van McCoy. Chris Bartley knew him

well and concurred that he was a nutter...so stick that in your Dalek and smoke it

Well as someone already pointed out, the credits on the Soul City release were different.

As I was in error, i immediately apologise.

[Paul R]

But what an absolutely stunning bit of Northern Soul.

One of the best IMHO.

Argue all you like about everything else but this is the real thing.

Paul

[Guest]

Ian, what do you think of the Carl Dixon productions on Youtube ?, i guess he has the same intentions as you in making music, but the use of real instruments and authentic musicians really has the edge; without being too critical of your work i can only observe that they all have a likeness in the use of synthesised drum rolls etc, but many of the songs are great, Nobody can deny your enthusiasm, i have heard you comment on your latest production "this is the greatest N/S record ever" on more than one occasion - thats your opinion and your entitlement. My only other comment would be the cheezyness of getting people to post favourable consistant comments on your Youtube videos - again so obviously prompted by your media marketing, i guess you have an army of reviewers ?, a bit more subtle perhaps ?

You succeeded in getting the right sound on Vanessa "This time" - could have passed as a late 60's recording in my opinion - how about some more like that ?, that tune certainly earned my respect back from a previously negative attitude to your work, and i also respect you for coming on here and giving people the chance to talk with you

Regards

Andy

[Chris L]

As I was in error, I immediately apologise.

That's OK, but you know I'm sure Mattie's not actually blood related, during the research I

did I'm sure she's adopted, I'll dig it out. Anyway..............what ever happened to the follow-up

of "I'll never forget you" ? Didn't someone have a Soul City pre-release (Tony Cummings ?) did

it ever surface ??? Boy it's an awful long time ago.............................

[Chris L]

That's OK, but you know I'm sure Mattie's not actually blood related, during the research I

did I'm sure she's adopted, I'll dig it out. Anyway..............what ever happened to the follow-up

of "I'll never forget you" ? Didn't someone have a Soul City pre-release (Tony Cummings ?) did

it ever surface ??? Boy it's an awful long time ago.............................

Yes here it is :

"Van McCoy Music, Inc., is a Maryland closely held corporation established in October, 1989 by Norman McCoy, Sr., Van's father, along with Mattie I. Taylor, Van's foster sister" To be honest I found her pretty

bonkers too

[Guest]

But what an absolutely stunning bit of Northern Soul.

One of the best IMHO.

Argue all you like about everything else but this is the real thing.

Paul

Yes. As good as it gets, and I was desperate to film him for SWONS as we said earlier.

[Steve G]

Yes here it is :

"Van McCoy Music, Inc., is a Maryland closely held corporation established in October, 1989 by Norman McCoy, Sr., Van's father, along with Mattie I. Taylor, Van's foster sister" To be honest I found her pretty

bonkers too

Is she the person who was at the Rocket and asking a £1 for A5 copies of pictures of Sandi Sheldon? If so I thought she was very odd too.

[Guest]

Ian, what do you think of the Carl Dixon productions on Youtube ?, i guess he has the same intentions as you in making music, but the use of real instruments and authentic musicians really has the edge; without being too critical of your work i can only observe that they all have a likeness in the use of synthesised drum rolls etc, but many of the songs are great, Nobody can deny your enthusiasm, i have heard you comment on your latest production "this is the greatest N/S record ever" on more than one occasion - thats your opinion and your entitlement. My only other comment would be the cheezyness of getting people to post favourable consistant comments on your Youtube videos - again so obviously prompted by your media marketing, i guess you have an army of reviewers ?, a bit more subtle perhaps ?

You succeeded in getting the right sound on Vanessa "This time" - could have passed as a late 60's recording in my opinion - how about some more like that ?, that tune certainly earned my respect back from a previously negative attitude to your work, and i also respect you for coming on here and giving people the chance to talk with you

Regards

Andy

I don't know him at all personally.

BUT......

I didn't like the way he said stuff about how important it was for everyone to support an English person whose dream was to go over to Detroit and work with legends, as if he was the first.

Been there, done that, and had ZERO support from most Soul fans.

I don't rate his songwriting ability, not personally, and while I admire his enthusiasm, I'm not sure I like the way he tried to curry favour with people here on Soul Source, by ignoring all my volume of work, and making out he was the great Messiah come to Detroit to make new Northern Soul records.

Whereas he comes across all humble and I come across as impatient and intolerant of my detractors, it doesn't negate what I did with Motorcity.

Everyone seems to forget that I wrote with Sylvia Moy, Johnny Bristol, Ivy Jo Hunter, Ronnie McNeir, Obie Benson, Billy Griffin, Syreeta, Al Cleveland, Bobby Taylor, Janie Bradford, Freddie Gorman, Marilyn McLeod, Sonny Sanders, etc etc etc.

[Guest]

i can only observe that they all have a likeness in the use of synthesised drum rolls etc,

I haven't used a synthesized drum roll since 1992.

Many of what you call synthesized are actually live samples, most of which I either recorded in Detroit or I acquired off original 1960s master recordings, totally legally.

And since 2002, every drum fill I have used has been different to any others around it.

[Guest]

My only other comment would be the cheezyness of getting people to post favourable consistant comments on your Youtube videos - again so obviously prompted by your media marketing, i guess you have an army of reviewers ?

Nope. They are genuine fans. I have 1500 of them who all subscribe to a newsletter and who genuinely love my work. There's one ever so sweet guy called Ian How, who won't buy a record unless I produced it. Honest.

[Guest]

That's OK, but you know I'm sure Mattie's not actually blood related, during the research I

did I'm sure she's adopted, I'll dig it out. Anyway..............what ever happened to the follow-up

of "I'll never forget you" ? Didn't someone have a Soul City pre-release (Tony Cummings ?) did

it ever surface ??? Boy it's an awful long time ago.............................

She always told me she WAS his sister, and I met her many years before you did. And heard Chris Bartley's "So Soon" in some tapes she had of unreleased Van McCoy stuff.

The other record is "Since There's No Doubt", by Chris Jackson, which we spent the last two pages talking about.

[Guest]

Is she the person who was at the Rocket and asking a £1 for A5 copies of pictures of Sandi Sheldon? If so I thought she was very odd too.

Yes. Correct.

[Guest]

I told the story on ANS many years ago about the greatest Northern Soul record that I ever heard in my whole life.

It was produced in 1970 by Johnny Jackson and Ronnie Rancifer, who toured with the Jackson Five.

They played it to me in 1971 when I met the Jackson Five.

It was called "What Goes Around Comes Around" and was by Arnold someone or other.

The ultimate Motown stomper. Bob Relf meets Johnny Wyatt.

Why has it never surfaced in thirty eight years ???

Johnny Jackson died a few years ago. I contacted Ronnie Rancifer on MySpace, but he only vaguely remembered. He said the bloke was white, something like Arnold Rubenstein, or Rothstein or something, but I don't believe that, as I can remember the vocal being more like Jackie Lee or J.J. Barnes in style. For some reason I had it in my head that it was Arnold Blair.

But the unreleased tape must exist SOMEWHERE surely ???

And before anyone asks, no I am not making this up.

[chrissie]

Marv Johnson was one of my dearest friends, and the most loyal artist I have ever had.

He was the very first artist to launch the entire Motown record company. His first single, "Come To Me", was the very first record on the Tamla label, in 1958, Tamla 101.

I always thought this was released by motown in 59? I think it is a great record and stands the tests of time

QoFxx

[Guest]

I always thought this was released by motown in 59? I think it is a great record and stands the tests of time

QoFxx

No, 1958. And leased out to United Artists and released in the UK on London Records.

[chrissie]

No, 1958. And leased out to United Artists and released in the UK on London Records.

Maybe I should of said put down by motown not released.

QoFxx

Edited August 29, 2008 by chrissie

[chrissie]

Maybe I should of said put down by motown not released.

QoFxx

I din't think he signed to motown until 59 and this was released in a small way in the May

QoFxx

Edited August 29, 2008 by chrissie

[Guest]

I din't think he signed to motown until 59 and this was released in a small way in the May

QoFxx

No it was 1958, which is why Motown 50 begins this autumn.

[Steve G]

I din't think he signed to motown until 59 and this was released in a small way in the May

QoFxx

Chrissie don't argue with Ian on Motown. It's his specialist subject

[chrissie]

Chrissie don't argue with Ian on Motown. It's his specialist subject

I'm not arguing at all, and if Ian say's it is so I totally bow to his superior knowledge as Ian's expansive knolwedge of Motown is one thing about Ian I truely admire respect

And before anyone thinks I am being sarcastic, this is a genuine post.

QoFxx

Edited August 29, 2008 by chrissie

[Guest]

Chrissie don't argue with Ian on Motown. It's his specialist subject

Always has been. Since I was fourteen.

[Guest]

I think a lot of people on Soul Source will enjoy this. The late Frankie Gaye, which I co-wrote and co-produced with Ronnie McNeir and Obie from The Four Tops.

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[Hitsville Chalky]

I don't know him at all personally.

BUT......

I didn't like the way he said stuff about how important it was for everyone to support an English person whose dream was to go over to Detroit and work with legends, as if he was the first.

Been there, done that, and had ZERO support from most Soul fans.

I don't rate his songwriting ability, not personally, and while I admire his enthusiasm, I'm not sure I like the way he tried to curry favour with people here on Soul Source, by ignoring all my volume of work, and making out he was the great Messiah come to Detroit to make new Northern Soul records.

Whereas he comes across all humble and I come across as impatient and intolerant of my detractors, it doesn't negate what I did with Motorcity.

Everyone seems to forget that I wrote with Sylvia Moy, Johnny Bristol, Ivy Jo Hunter, Ronnie McNeir, Obie Benson, Billy Griffin, Syreeta, Al Cleveland, Bobby Taylor, Janie Bradford, Freddie Gorman, Marilyn McLeod, Sonny Sanders, etc etc etc.

Come on Ian give some Credit , yes he's not the first and won't be the last to go Over To Detroit or any other part of the States to record and produce new tracks , he had a dream just like you and Me for the matter of the fact and fair play to Carl he did it ! just like you with the Motorcity Project . Personally I think Carl won't get the support like you did not with the Motorcity project which is a real shame , I really like what Carl as done especially the Spyder Turner track ! No one in a Million years will ever attchive what you did with The Motorcity project but that does not stop the likes of Carl or Myself or anyone else who is intrested in doing this type of thing with artist's they love and have listened to their music for years , at present I'm working with Joe pep with some new tracks of his for me to get that involved means so much and belive me i do want to learn.

for those who have not seen Carl's video here it is and I'm really pleased to see spyder back in the studio - -

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[Hitsville Chalky]

I think a lot of people on Soul Source will enjoy this. The late Frankie Gaye, which I co-wrote and co-produced with Ronnie McNeir and Obie from The Four Tops.

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[Billy Freemantle]

for those who have not seen Carl's video here it is and I'm really pleased to see spyder back in the studio - -

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[Billy Freemantle]

Just listened to the Carl Dixon again without looking at the video and I got the sensation of hearing a record that was jumping. Is this intentional? Lots of great snippets of sound that haven't been sewn together properly.

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

No, 1958. And leased out to United Artists and released in the UK on London Records.

I remember that you were very impressed that my dad had a London copy (and had bought it when it came out) when you stayed at my folks' house in 196whatever!

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Always has been. Since I was fourteen.

Not so well known about Ian is that he also used to be an avid collector of Stax-related labels and productions, with a huge collection that mightn't (quite!) have been on a par with his Motown one, but was nonetheless formidable and, as you might expect - even in 1968 - chock full of the 'rarest of the rare'. Might surprise a few people out there who think he's only ever been a Motown-and-Northern man...

[Guest bazabod_downunder]

ROFL

When I was at school there was this swotty effeminate kid who used to get picked on all the time.

His dad was minted and I remember him going out one weekend and buying every single colour Pringle jumper available at the time in a bid to ingratiate himself with the lads who had picked on him. He even gave a few away to his new-found friends.

He was the indisputable Pringle King, he even started to get a bit cocky.

Of course, time marched on, Pringles went out and as he couldn't really go to the match he was always too late in picking up on how the fashions had changed. He was no longer the Pringle King, just the chubby kid who lived in a newsagents. I felt a bit sorry for him sometimes but then remembered how cocky he'd been.

I saw him recently walking around town in his Yellow Diamond jumper, were nearly forty now so we're all grown up and stuff, I stopped him and asked how he was doing. Turns out he'd bought a small factory and some old jumper designs and was producing the "Bringle Dyamond" in an effort to introduce a new generation to the wonders of wooly golfwear. I told him it wouldn't work, that the Dyamond Bringle was a poor imitation of the original but he wouldn't have it. He refused to move on. So I moved on.

I don't know what reminded me of that.

[Guest Nik Mak]

Just listened to the Carl Dixon again without looking at the video and I got the sensation of hearing a record that was jumping. Is this intentional? Lots of great snippets of sound that haven't been sewn together properly.

It's a montage of different trax, not just one????????????????

[Guest SteveJohnston]

Come on Ian give some Credit , yes he's not the first and won't be the last to go Over To Detroit or any other part of the States to record and produce new tracks , he had a dream just like you and Me for the matter of the fact and fair play to Carl he did it ! just like you with the Motorcity Project . Personally I think Carl won't get the support like you did not with the Motorcity project which is a real shame , I really like what Carl as done especially the Spyder Turner track ! No one in a Million years will ever attchive what you did with The Motorcity project but that does not stop the likes of Carl or Myself or anyone else who is intrested in doing this type of thing with artist's they love and have listened to their music for years , at present I'm working with Joe pep with some new tracks of his for me to get that involved means so much and belive me i do want to learn.

for those who have not seen Carl's video here it is and I'm really pleased to see spyder back in the studio - -

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[Guest]

Come on Ian give some Credit , yes he's not the first and won't be the last to go Over To Detroit or any other part of the States to record and produce new tracks , he had a dream just like you and Me for the matter of the fact and fair play to Carl he did it ! just like you with the Motorcity Project . Personally I think Carl won't get the support like you did not with the Motorcity project which is a real shame , I really like what Carl as done especially the Spyder Turner track ! No one in a Million years will ever attchive what you did with The Motorcity project but that does not stop the likes of Carl or Myself or anyone else who is intrested in doing this type of thing with artist's they love and have listened to their music for years , at present I'm working with Joe pep with some new tracks of his for me to get that involved means so much and belive me i do want to learn.

for those who have not seen Carl's video here it is and I'm really pleased to see spyder back in the studio - -

Well it's better than the last stuff I heard, and I see Karen Pree in there, plus the sax player from Rare Earth. I was pleasantly surprised, but it's still lacking a certain magical hit quality, but far better than his earlier efforts.

Edited August 30, 2008 by Ian Levine

[Guest]

I remember that you were very impressed that my dad had a London copy (and had bought it when it came out) when you stayed at my folks' house in 196whatever!

Yes indeed. For sure.

[Guest]

Just listened to the Carl Dixon again without looking at the video and I got the sensation of hearing a record that was jumping. Is this intentional? Lots of great snippets of sound that haven't been sewn together properly.

It was clearly snippets from several different recordings, like a trailer.

[Guest]

Just listened to the Carl Dixon again without looking at the video and I got the sensation of hearing a record that was jumping. Is this intentional? Lots of great snippets of sound that haven't been sewn together properly.

I always make sure when I do a trailer that it's narrated between the songs, so no-one makes the mistake of thinking the songs jump or change pace.

Just something that's obvious, but something that comes with years of experience.

I'm glad they at least realised the value of getting it down on camera.

Back in 1989, we filmed seven full three hour tapes in Detroit, all of which were useless because the sun filter was left in the "on" position, and it was all too dark to see anything.

[paup-ine]

I think a lot of people on Soul Source will enjoy this. The late Frankie Gaye, which I co-wrote and co-produced with Ronnie McNeir and Obie from The Four Tops.

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[Guest]

And here's today's Northern Soul classic, specially re-edited for the upcoming five disc box set, "Northern Soul's 200 Greatest Floorfillers".

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[Daryl]

Hull Soul Club.

Now you've told me this, I'm tempted to visit. Sounds like I'd appreciate their attitude to music.

Hi Ian you would be welcome any time.

Cheers Daryl

[Billy Freemantle]

It's a montage of different trax, not just one????????????????

Well, thank God for that! In that case I really don't know what to say. I I said the snippets were excellent but without hearing more of them I couldn't form an opinion about the overall quality. Having said that, I have listened to a Carl Dixon piece in its entirety and it was really good, authentic soul. However, as a trailer then it clearly isn't a very good one if such confusion can arise.

[Billy Freemantle]

I always make sure when I do a trailer that it's narrated between the songs, so no-one makes the mistake of thinking the songs jump or change pace.

They certainly need to do something. I'm sure I'm not the only idiot on the planet. In my own defence, could I add that I do listen to 60s Third Stream jazz which does have abrupt changes of pace after the ideas of Stockhausen!

[Guest]

Hi Ian you would be welcome any time.

Cheers Daryl

That's excellent to know.

[Guest]

Well, thank God for that! In that case I really don't know what to say. I I said the snippets were excellent but without hearing more of them I couldn't form an opinion about the overall quality. Having said that, I have listened to a Carl Dixon piece in its entirety and it was really good, authentic soul. However, as a trailer then it clearly isn't a very good one if such confusion can arise.

It could certainly use a re-edit.

[Guest]

Not so well known about Ian is that he also used to be an avid collector of Stax-related labels and productions, with a huge collection that mightn't (quite!) have been on a par with his Motown one, but was nonetheless formidable and, as you might expect - even in 1968 - chock full of the 'rarest of the rare'. Might surprise a few people out there who think he's only ever been a Motown-and-Northern man...

I did collect them but was never a big lover of the traditional Stax sound.

My favourites were the later stuff, such as The Epsilons, The Stingers, Collette Kelly, Paul Thompson, The Dramatics, Margie Joseph, The TSU Toronadoes, Proud As Punch, Reggie Milner, Darrell Banks, Chuck Brooks, Barbara Lewis, Roz Ryan, The Temprees, The Limitations, Major Lance, and of course J.J. Barnes.

[Guest MBarrett]

Not so well known about Ian is that he also used to be an avid collector of Stax-related labels and productions, with a huge collection that mightn't (quite!) have been on a par with his Motown one,

Ian

By the time you were 17 and first went to/DJ'd at the Wheel - roughly what was the size of your record collection by then. And what sort of split i.e.

- your U.K. Tamla Motown collection

- other U.K. released stuff

- U.S. releases that you bought over here

- U.S. releases that you bought over there

And by this time had you got special storage units for them, cataloguing etc. etc.

Sorry if these are odd questions but I'm still trying to get my head round this "precocious" kid who was building up this amazing record collection and probably still hadn't even done his O-levels!!!

By then how many "buying" trips had you done to the States. I know you have said before that these started as family holidays. But where did your stay and how far afield did you travel in your hunt for records. And how did you get to these places when you obviously couldn't drive??!!

Also - if you want to share it - were you involved in music in any other way? i.e. I guess your school would have encouraged you to play some kind of musical instrument? Have you got a "Grade V in clarinet" or somesuch. Or was there no urge for a practical involvement in music until later?

MB

[Guest]

Ian

By the time you were 17 and first went to/DJ'd at the Wheel

I never DJ'd at the wheel. And I was 16 when I went.

[Guest]

And by this time had you got special storage units for them, cataloguing etc. etc.

I had my own record room in my parents house, shelved out floor to ceiling, very small and cramped.

Lots of old Northern Soulies remember it well. Anyone ???????