Ian Levine, Motorcity, Centre City, Blackpool Mecca, And Swons

[Headsy]

takes some getting through this but hey, no work, cerdit crunch etc etc...........

two questions,

1. if the music played today is not to your liking,what have you heard in the last ten years that you did not know before and liked ?

2. dont know much about house versus northern ( soul ) music, but what do you think about the record by ''guts'' the french guy I think,cant remember what its called. ?

oh and James wants to come out as well

oih............you gonna answer my questions or what..................please

and dont give me the ignore user answer thank you

[Guest dundeedavie]

Mean spirited and nasty. If you don't like the thread, then don't read it, OK? No one's twisting your arm......

Believe you me, I'm not Ian Levine's No.1 fan - we've had many differences of opinion over the years but if Levine never went to another Northern Soul venue again for the rest of his life, he would have still contributed 99% more to the scene than most of his detractors on here.

One thing I'd like Ian to do is list his early discoveries, from '69 to '75. Once you read that list you'll realise the massive influence he had on the scene in it's formative years, where, incidentaly, he clocked up many thousands of miles playing at different venues. You may not like the fact, but for the period from 1970-75, Ian Levine was the arbitor of good taste on the Northern scene and for that he should be applauded. Plus plenty of people obviously want to hear about his experiences, so who are you to moan? Go read another thread if you don't like this one........

Ian D

Well said ian , though paul does appear to like a campaign doesn't he ?

[Ian Dewhirst]

Steve G wrote:

The two issues I had / have with Ian that I am aware of are:

1) his calling what he does today as "NS" - he knows I don't agree with that, and was critical of his NS 2007 CD, not because of the musical content, but because of the assumption (his) that you can create CDs full of NS today - I just don't see it as authentic, and it's all about what is "Northern Soul" - a style of music that anyone can make, anytime, or a scene based on recordings from a genre and a period in time - he and I disagree on that and will forever

Ian I do not agree. If I took FYC "Good thing" it certainly sounds like northern, wadles like northern but it ain't bleedin' northern (good record as it is). Not in my rather large pidgeonhole it ain't northern anyway. Same with Edwyn Collins. There are plenty of records that sound like northern which simply ain't northern.

Not an ideal analogy perhaps, but if I want to go to a Picasso exhibition, I want to see Picassos not Fred from Islington's interpretation of Picassos.

I am not miserable Ian - I have had a splendid weekend away and have 16 pages of your thread to read over lunch.

Make it a long lunch then Steve!

I don't know why you two don't get along. The pool of knowledge between the two of you must be awesome. Maybe you should pop along to one of Ian's pool parties LOL.......

Ian D

[Steve G]

Pete, as I said to Ian in my earlier reply, I do not want to ruin the fun, I am housebound with a broken ankle at the moment and the thread is at least saving me from the hell that is daytime TV but as Ian keeps quoting what the rules are...................

QoFxx

Hey Chrissie, if we can have endless pages of SSLAAS and people pouring each other G&T's each night and Bearsy-bating surely we can have more pages of discussion on all things Ian Levine. At least there is some interesting stuff going around between all the barbs....

[stomper45]

Pete, as I said to Ian in my earlier reply, I do not want to ruin the fun, I am housebound with a broken ankle at the moment and the thread is at least saving me from the hell that is daytime TV but as Ian keeps quoting what the rules are...................

QoFxx

Think that rule (10k) is ok for non soul related free basing stuff. This aside from the dull boring personal jibes is of interest to many on the forum. Whats the point of opening part2 to continue this insight/conversation with one of the icons of our scene.

[chrissie]

Hey Chrissie, if we can have endless pages of SSLAAS and people pouring each other G&T's each night and Bearsy-bating surely we can have more pages of discussion on all things Ian Levine. At least there is some interesting stuff going around between all the barbs....

Yes but we have to close the threads at 1000 and re-open a new one

QoFxx

[Ian Dewhirst]

Well said ian , though paul does appear to like a campaign doesn't he ?

There's a few campaigns being waged on here Davie!

The funniest thing is I've heard, is exactly the same description being applied to both Ian Levine and James Trouble, i.e. "He's an arrogant prick". Could they both be cast from the same die I wonder....?

It's a lively thread though innit?

Ian D

[Guest]

So what exactly caused you to buy your first TM record, and then the next, and how did it develop from there. Were you playing these records with friends, taking them down the youth club, or was it a completely different vibe altogether?

Two things.

"Ready Steady Go", and Kenny Everett's radio show on Radio Caroline.

Both influenced my musical taste at my most impressionable age.

Watching The Four Tops sing "It's The Same Old Song" and even Felice Taylor doing "I Feel Love Coming On".

I can picture it as clear as yesterday.

Kenny Everett used to play stuff like Rita Wright and The Velvelettes and The Marvelettes and Brenda Holloway. And I was thirteen and adored it.

[Guest]

I thought I read once that you did have a "completest" set of the TM label. Is that right? What happened to it??

John Anderson when I really needed the money. He picked it almost clean.

[Guest]

Sorry to pry in this direction - but how on earth did you fund such a "hobby". In 1966 it took about 2 weeks of my paper round money plus pocket money to buy one L.P. So amongst the 3 kids in our house we had just a small scattering of singles, E.P.'s and L.P.'s. I suppose in a way the scarcity made them even more precious to us. It is common knowledge that your parents were pretty wealthy. Had they put you on some stonking great allowance, or did you have access to a bottomless bank account - no questions asked!!

Every week in 1968 I bought the ex juke box singles on the Tamla Motown label from Bond Street Market in Blackpool. Every one and they were cheap.

Took them to Gary Wilde's kiosk. Traded them up for more expensive Motown singles like "These Things Will Keep Me Loving You", which was five pounds, but the records I traded for it had just cost me less than a quid. I wheeled and dealed to increase my collection with little money in my pocket.

Everyone that went to the Wheel bought from that kiosk on Victoria Street, and he sold all his Tamla Motown singles as quick as they came in, because it was the one thing that EVERYBODY wanted, and they foolishly deleted their singles ridiculously quickly, so no-one could ever get the ones they wanted unless they bought them off someone like him.

[Steve G]

Make it a long lunch then Steve!

I don't know why you two don't get along. The pool of knowledge between the two of you must be awesome. Maybe you should pop along to one of Ian's pool parties LOL.......

Ian D

Hi Ian D,

I've sped red through much of it now - phoar. I don't say we don't get along, as I don't really know him that well - though have obviously met him on a number of occasions and been round his house etc....two issues of contention which I don't agree with him on, and which I outlined on P6 all those days ago. "NS" type 2007/8 productions and the David Rhodes (I know it was a 70s recording cos Sam had an acetate on Pye or some such late 70s)....We come to these things with a different perspective, I will always be a soul fan first, a collector a close second, and northern scene celebrity last. Ian is now dissing the collecting side of it, and that's HIS choice. But let's not forget when Ian came back onto the scene late 90s he was collecting just about every piece of vinyl he could.....then a few years later he stopped. That's fine, but I got lost when he decided what he could do was somehow better than what the collective talent of black america in the 60s and 70s had to offer.

[Guest]

One thing I'd like Ian to do is list his early discoveries, from '69 to '75.

Oh come on...

Where would I start ?????????

That's impossible, Ian.

[Guest dundeedavie]

There's a few campaigns being waged on here Davie!

The funniest thing is I've heard, is exactly the same description being applied to both Ian Levine and James Trouble, i.e. "He's an arrogant prick". Could they both be cast from the same die I wonder....?

It's a lively thread though innit?

Ian D

Arrogance is a funny thing , if you can back it up then great and it seems some can and some are not deserving their arrogance .... Obvious who falls into which camp

[Guest]

Oh and James wants to come out as well

I really thought that too.

One too many questions about those tight white shorts, and the way he kept dwelling on it, and the slightly too-interested way he phrased those questions.

I'd lay odds on it.

[Simsy]

Yes but we have to close the threads at 1000 and re-open a new one

QoFxx

Think that had to do more with freebasing club type threads.

[Guest]

1. if the music played today is not to your liking,what have you heard in the last ten years that you did not know before and liked ?

All those WONDERFUL unreleased Motown.

Chris Clark - I Just Can't Forget Him, Martha And The Vandellas - I'll Follow You, The Elgins - My Love For Your Love, Barbara McNair - Nothing But Trouble. Too many to list.

New releases I have loved....

Diana Ross - More Today Than Yesterday, Nicole Wills and the Soul Investigators - If This Ain't Love, Maroon 5 - Sunday Morning (don't mock, just go,listen with an open mind), Corine Bailey Rae - Just Like A Star, Nora Jones - I Don't Know Why, Vince Montana - That's What Love Does, Raphael Saadiq - Love That Girl

[Ian Dewhirst]

Two things.

"Ready Steady Go", and Kenny Everett's radio show on Radio Caroline.

Both influenced my musical taste at my most impressionable age.

Watching The Four Tops sing "It's The Same Old Song" and even Felice Taylor doing "I Feel Love Coming On".

I can picture it as clear as yesterday.

Kenny Everett used to play stuff like Rita Wright and The Velvelettes and The Marvelettes and Brenda Holloway. And I was thirteen and adored it.

Didja forget Emperor Rosko as well? At one point, the only bright spark on Radio One.....

Also I think it's fair to say that the Northern towns and cities had a real affinity for Motown. There'd always be a few Motown records at friends houses, the youth clubs of the day used to hammer Motown and the BBC Light Programme (pre Radio One) was heavily playing stuff like "Where Did Our Love Go" - The Supremes ('64), "I Can't Help Myself" - The Four Tops ('65) and "My Guy" - Mary Wells ('64), - I can even remember my mum singing along to that! Ian and myself were obviously hearing these songs on the radio at a young age and identifying with something which made us want to go out and find more of it, which we both did in our respective areas for many years before eventually meeting. I think we were probably a product of the times. The UK was an incredibly exciting place to be musically in that period. We were watching the Beatles and the Stones conquer the world at the same time as the Motown acts were conquering the UK. 'Ready, Steady, Go' was a 'must-watch' in those days, even for a 9 year old and that was probably our first glimpse of black american acts, who were generally better than the home-grown ones in most cases. Dusty Springfield was also incredibly supportive of the Motown acts especially. All these thing had a huge influence on the youngsters who were seeing this unfold at the time and it obviously sustained the interest otherwise we wouldn't be writing about it some 45 years later.

Co-incidentaly, Felice Taylor was the first record I bought with my own pocket money. Best money I ever spent as it's still one of my favourite records and really pure Northern Soul. It was also a No.11 Pop hit on 25th October 1967 which, I believe, was Barry White's first success as a producer. I think it's fair to say that if "I Feel Coming On" was unreleased and only just discovered, it would be hailed as one of the greatest Northern discoveries ever. As it is, it gets ignored as it was a pop hit at the time, but it was certainly a massively influential record for me and kind-of provided the sort of template that I wanted in music. In fact I'm listening to it now and it still sounds brilliant........

Ian D

[Guest]

But you can't have one rule for one and another for the rest of us, that just wouldn't be fair would it Ian

Of course it would.

I can't speak with authority, but I wouldn't imagine many threads have had thirty thousand views in three days, surely ??

If I owned a forum that attracted so much interest, I'd be dancing in the streets.

[Mike]

I don't want to ruin peoples enjoyment, i am enjoying the banter as well but rules are rules

QoFxx

how many times got to say it

if got anything to say about site matters then post in feedback not on the threads

[Guest]

I don't want to ruin peoples enjoyment, i am enjoying the banter as well but rules are rules

QoFxx

I never have been, never was and never will be a lover of rules nor an observer of them.

That's simply who I am.

[Guest]

I was critical of his NS 2007 CD, not because of the musical content, but because of the assumption (his) that you can create CDs full of NS today

Of course you bloody can.

[Sunnysoul]

Ian,

Having spent many hours poring over every issue of "Black Music" magazine from the 70's, one person who proved to be an immensely influential figure in relation to the course that the Northern Soul scene took in the 70s - especially with the Wigan vs Mecca split - and black music in general in the UK was Tony Cummings.

It would be interesting to know your recollections and memories of the man ?

[Guest]

but as Ian keeps quoting what the rules are...................

QoFxx

I beg your pardon.

I do NOT.

[Guest]

oih............you gonna answer my questions or what..................please

and dont give me the ignore user answer thank you

I did and I wouldn't, in that order.

[Guest]

Make it a long lunch then Steve!

I don't know why you two don't get along. The pool of knowledge between the two of you must be awesome. Maybe you should pop along to one of Ian's pool parties LOL.......

Ian D

I actually sold him some records in the past.

I don't dislike him as a bloke.

I just hate how anorak and closed minded he is, and think he's missing out, and find him too reactionary for my way of thinking.

[Guest]

Whats the point of opening part2 to continue this insight/conversation with one of the icons of our scene.

Thankyou. I was quite touched by that lovely comment.

[Guest]

I got lost when he decided what he could do was somehow better than what the collective talent of black america in the 60s and 70s had to offer.

I never said that and never claimed that.

But I maintain that fresh new stuff of the same calibre is far more preferable to digging out old rock and roll dirges and trying to pretend they qualify as Northern Soul. Now that's something that I DO feel, and would rather listen to my own songs any day.

But my love for the cream of the 1960s and 1970s never has diminished and never will. Otherwise I would never have put so much into doing SWONS when no-one else would, no-one else did, and no-one else would even consider.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Oh come on...

Where would I start ?????????

That's impossible, Ian.

For posterity mate. Also it might save me a bit of time in terms of arguing with people where I heard something first or who discovered what etc, etc. Usually it was the Mecca and I know that most readers of this thread would be fascinated by that sort of info.

It seemed that every week would throw up a bunch of great records, most of which are selling for £100's and £1000's these days as they're so cherished.

Also there was a grapevine back then where as soon as you got back from a U.S. trip the word would circulate about what you'd found and the buzz before even hearing the record would be huge. Obvious contenders would be "Landslide", "Stick By Me Baby", "There's A Ghost In My House" etc, etc right through to "Seven Day Lover", "It Really Hurts Me Girl" and "I Can See Him Loving You". And all the rest LOL......

Also, it would be for the benefit of younger SS readers who may not realise the sheer amount of records you found. It would probably put thing's in perspective for many people!

Ian D

[Guest]

two issues of contention which I don't agree with him on, and which I outlined on P6 all those days ago.

David Rhodes (I know it was a 70s recording cos Sam had an acetate on Pye or some such late 70s)..

As I have now explained on here several times, there were only 100 copies ever pressed, it was the only legitimate first issue of a legitimate record, and it was recorded in 1974 a full year before I even met Danny Leake.

[Guest]

Didja forget Emperor Rosko as well? At one point, the only bright spark on Radio One.....

Also I think it's fair to say that the Northern towns and cities had a real affinity for Motown. There'd always be a few Motown records at friends houses, the youth clubs of the day used to hammer Motown and the BBC Light Programme (pre Radio One) was heavily playing stuff like "Where Did Our Love Go" - The Supremes ('64), "I Can't Help Myself" - The Four Tops ('65) and "My Guy" - Mary Wells ('64), - I can even remember my mum singing along to that! Ian and myself were obviously hearing these songs on the radio at a young age and identifying with something which made us want to go out and find more of it, which we both did in our respective areas for many years before eventually meeting. I think we were probably a product of the times. The UK was an incredibly exciting place to be musically in that period. We were watching the Beatles and the Stones conquer the world at the same time as the Motown acts were conquering the UK. 'Ready, Steady, Go' was a 'must-watch' in those days, even for a 9 year old and that was probably our first glimpse of black american acts, who were generally better than the home-grown ones in most cases. Dusty Springfield was also incredibly supportive of the Motown acts especially. All these thing had a huge influence on the youngsters who were seeing this unfold at the time and it obviously sustained the interest otherwise we wouldn't be writing about it some 45 years later.

Co-incidentaly, Felice Taylor was the first record I bought with my own pocket money. Best money I ever spent as it's still one of my favourite records and really pure Northern Soul. It was also a No.11 Pop hit on 25th October 1967 which, I believe, was Barry White's first success as a producer. I think it's fair to say that if "I Feel Coming On" was unreleased and only just discovered, it would be hailed as one of the greatest Northern discoveries ever. As it is, it gets ignored as it was a pop hit at the time, but it was certainly a massively influential record for me and kind-of provided the sort of template that I wanted in music. In fact I'm listening to it now and it still sounds brilliant........

Ian D

Lovely recollections, which mirror my own.

They don't realise how difficult it was in the Sixties to discover great music and therefore how much we felt we were the "In Crowd" because we got it and the "div's" didn't.

[Guest]

how many times got to say it

if got anything to say about site matters then post in feedback not on the threads

Well said that man.

[Prophonics 2029]

I still find it quiet funny when people say they found this they found that when their are more than one copy of all these records and humm they were never lost.

Maybe the term should be I was the first to introduced this on the the Northern Scene and make it a big tune.

Ian if you hadn't played the tunes like Montclairs or Carstairs do you think they would have never been played or just a question of time before someone else play them.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Prophonics 2029

[Guest]

I don't agree with that, and was critical of his NS 2007 CD, not because of the musical content, but because of the assumption (his) that you can create CDs full of NS today

This is just for you.

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[Ian Dewhirst]

I still find it quiet funny when people say they found this they found that when their are more than one copy of all these records and humm they were never lost.

Maybe the turn should be I introduced this on the the Northern Scene.

Yep, that's what I meant really.

The scene was almost the complete opposite of what it is these days, in terms of the fact that there were really only a handfull - say a couple of dozen key DJ's and the same amount of big-tune/unknown collectors. So generally we knew who had what and where it came from. If another copy turned up then it was big news back then.....

Ian D

[Guest]

Ian,

Having spent many hours poring over every issue of "Black Music" magazine from the 70's, one person who proved to be an immensely influential figure in relation to the course that the Northern Soul scene took in the 70s - especially with the Wigan vs Mecca split - and black music in general in the UK was Tony Cummings.

It would be interesting to know your recollections and memories of the man ?

A brilliant person and a mentor to me.

In 1974 he gave me a copy of Johnny Baker "Shy Guy" and said this is the sort of stuff you should be playing at Blackpool Mecca and he was right too.

He and Roy Stanton owned Black Wax, and had many really rare records for sale for just one pound each, on really obscure labels. His wife Hilary was lovely.

Tony had an affair with legendary music journalist Vivien Goldman, who he used to bring up to the Mecca. Vivien was utterly breathtakingly FABULOUS and I still adore her so much. She got me my first ever deal outside of Dave MacAleer, when she got her friend at Island to sign Barbara Pennington.

Tony really cared about the music, and his feud with Dave Godin was legendary. He was our biggest champion because he believed in what Colin and I were doing. Remember the whole brilliantly artistic fictional story of Eddie Foster, dreaming that ten thousand miles away people were dancing to his forgotten record ??? Tony and Vivien made at least twenty trips to the Mecca. Vivien's analysis of Northern Soul in the NME was groudbreaking and legendary and wonderful.

Tony became fanatically religious and runs a Christian Radio Station, but his description of Northern Soul and what made it work was the best interview on the whole of SWONS.

In 1976 he began to write a book called "The Strange World Of Northern Soul" and taped many interviews for it. I remember driving him to Manchester to find Rob Bellars.

It never got finished but it did get started.

Twenty two years later I made the book into a video documentary, and finished it for him at last. Without Tony Cummings, it would never have existed.

[Ian Dewhirst]

This is just for you.

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[Guest]

Ian if you hadn't played the tunes like Montclairs or Carstairs do you think they would have never been played or just a question of time before someone else play them.

Probably a question of time, but The Carstairs was so very rare, and unreleased, that it may have never surfaced, and only became less rare when John Anderson arranged for it to be repressed.

[Guest]

I love the way she sprouts dreadlocks about 40 seconds in on the vid!

Ian D

We did try to cover them up and keep them hidden for most of the video. But she's a great singer.

[Prophonics 2029]

Probably a question of time, but The Carstairs was so very rare, and unreleased, that it may have never surfaced, and only became less rare when John Anderson arranged for it to be repressed.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Ian if you hadn't played the tunes like Montclairs or Carstairs do you think they would have never been played or just a question of time before someone else play them.

I'd go as far to say that it's extremely unlikely that any other DJ would have played a record like "Hung Up On Your Love" at the time, crazy as it sounds. The Montclairs even more than the Carstairs was not a immediate hit, as I can remember it clearing the floor the first few times Ian played it. Once people got used to the intro and the song it caught on but it wasn't an easy sell at the time when it was competing with traditional stompers. It was a bold record to play and just one of many that the Mecca used to play which probably wouldn't have worked elsewhere at the time. Not arse licking here, just wanted to put some of these records in perspective in light of their popularity these days. The Montclairs was a floor-clearer on the wider scene until it's sheer brilliance overcame the objectors.........

Ian D

[leev]

Be grateful for that

[Prophonics 2029]

Going back a few pages there was a mention of a Will Collins record, was this the Bareback Anything I Can Do, I remember it was played at the Casino and C/U as The Love Comity.

[Guest James Trouble]

Of course it would.

I can't speak with authority, but I wouldn't imagine many threads have had thirty thousand views in three days, surely ??

If I owned a forum that attracted so much interest, I'd be dancing in the streets.

And there you go again, so interested in hits, clicks and how many people are looking at you.

So, are you going to let me ask some questions, Ian? Let me probe that fascinating mind of yours. Let's have a look at it's inner workings and find out what drives the Ian Levine Hit Machine...

[Guest Awake 502]

Going back a few pages there was a mention of a Will Collins record, was this the Bareback Anything I Can Do, I remember it was played at the Casino and C/U as The Love Comity.

It is indeed the same record....

[Guest sarahleen]

I'd go as far to say that it's extremely unlikely that any other DJ would have played a record like "Hung Up On Your Love" at the time, crazy as it sounds. The Montclairs even more than the Carstairs was not a immediate hit, as I can remember it clearing the floor the first few times Ian played it. Once people got used to the intro and the song it caught on but it wasn't an easy sell at the time when it was competing with traditional stompers. It was a bold record to play and just one of many that the Mecca used to play which probably wouldn't have worked elsewhere at the time. Not arse licking here, just wanted to put some of these records in perspective in light of their popularity these days. The Montclairs was a floor-clearer on the wider scene until it's sheer brilliance overcame the objectors.........

Ian D

hear hear, great thread by the way.

[Guest]

Having read most of this thread is it me or is there alot of oneupmanship amongst the gargantuans of the Northern Scene ???

[Prophonics 2029]

It is indeed the same record....

The demo has 1977 date on it just wondered thanks.

[Guest sarahleen]

Having read most of this thread is it me or is there alot of oneupmanship amongst the gargantuans of the Northern Scene ???

thats why it makes such great reading

[Chalky]

Yes but we have to close the threads at 1000 and re-open a new one

QoFxx

Mike should close em altogether and send you in the chat room at least this topic by and large is on topic.

Edited August 26, 2008 by chalky

[Pete S]

Probably a question of time, but The Carstairs was so very rare, and unreleased, that it may have never surfaced

You just described my fantasy