Is It True?

[Sharon Cooper]

Around here many soul night are held in Miners Welfares, all as with other parts of the country have had a part to play in Northern Culture from way back when they started digging 'black gold' out of the ground. In fact lots of those on the scene here were Miners themselves and some run Soul Nights.

Times though change and it seems that the Welfare has had it's day. Since the mines closed those attending Welfares has dropped markedly and many struggle to keep open. Last Thursday only 2 people entered our local welfare all day and it survives souly, or so they tell me, on the amount coming to Pilsley Soul each month.

Now it seems those who own the Welfares or some of them anyway are about to bring the curtain down on many of them (those NOT making a profit, or so I'm led to believe). Think about it, how much must the real estate that welfares stand on be worth, be a lot better to stick a dozen or so houses on it and make a packet.

I understand that the word is that they have got to start making a profit soon or thats it, well I don't know but has anybody else who runs a Welfare soul club heard anything on these lines.

Chris

[good angel]

Dont forget,Bretby was once a Miners welfare,they must have made a packet on that.

Kev

[Guest Netspeaky]

I used to Dj Friday and Saturday nights back in the 70's at The Point Of Ayr Miners club in a small village called Ffynnongroew it was one of the largest function facilities in North Wales, over two floors. I also ran a few Soul nights there when I could, super massive maple dance floor on the second floor, while the lower function room which was half the size could easily hold 200. Miners had money deducted from their wages to run them, when the mines shut a lot of the clubs also shut. This club also had a football club/field, crown green bowling court and a tennis court, 3 snooker tables, amazing facilities for such a small village.

[good angel]

I think the death nail for clubs was when you could take kids into pubs,every Saturday and Sunday night, my Mam and Dad took me to one club or another,it was the only place you could get kids in,and have a drink.

Kev

[Tabs]

Can't speak for Miners Welfare but closures of Working Mens Clubs is certainly happening.

The oldest in the country went bankrupt only a few weeks ago, and that was in a large city.

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/cove...92746-21474820/

[Chris Anderton]

Dont forget,Bretby was once a Miners welfare,they must have made a packet on that.

........

Eh? Bretby country club?

It was just that...a privately owned country club.

Chris.

[good angel]

Dont forget,Bretby was once a Miners welfare,they must have made a packet on that.

........

Eh? Bretby country club?

It was just that...a privately owned country club.

Chris.

Chris,

At one time Bretby,was a miners welfare,but I dont know when it was sold into private hands,I just live a stones throw away from Bretby,and walk the dogs on Bretby estate every day.

Regards,Kev

[Bazza]

Around here many soul night are held in Miners Welfares, all as with other parts of the country have had a part to play in Northern Culture from way back when they started digging 'black gold' out of the ground. In fact lots of those on the scene here were Miners themselves and some run Soul Nights.

Times though change and it seems that the Welfare has had it's day. Since the mines closed those attending Welfares has dropped markedly and many struggle to keep open. Last Thursday only 2 people entered our local welfare all day and it survives souly, or so they tell me, on the amount coming to Pilsley Soul each month.

Now it seems those who own the Welfares or some of them anyway are about to bring the curtain down on many of them (those NOT making a profit, or so I'm led to believe). Think about it, how much must the real estate that welfares stand on be worth, be a lot better to stick a dozen or so houses on it and make a packet.

I understand that the word is that they have got to start making a profit soon or thats it, well I don't know but has anybody else who runs a Welfare soul club heard anything on these lines.

Chris

Well Chris I know one of the bigger venues in our area,that is on the edge of closure,only being kept afloat by the soul do's,and attendances have halved over the last year,sad state of affairs,it may last this year out ,but next year I feel sure it will be no more

Bazza

Edited August 23, 2008 by bazza

[Sharon Cooper]

Well Chris I know one of the bigger venues in our area,that is on the edge of closure,only being kept afloat by the soul do's,and attendances have halved over the last year,sad state of affairs,it may last this year out ,but next year I feel sure it will be no more

Bazza

I agree Bazza, it is a sad state of affairs: All going the way of lots of pubs nationally it seems: Peoples social outlets are very different now to what they were when WMC`s and MW`s were in there hey day. The fact is there just isn`t enough interest in going out to clubs such s these any more and to be honest I wouldn`t want to sit in some of them for an `ordinary` night out as they have seen better days a long long time ago. Large enough venues are very few and far between so we will have to wait and see what happens in the future. Part of the decline perhaps.....................

Sharon

[good angel]

I agree Bazza, it is a sad state of affairs: All going the way of lots of pubs nationally it seems: Peoples social outlets are very different now to what they were when WMC`s and MW`s were in there hey day. The fact is there just isn`t enough interest in going out to clubs such s these any more and to be honest I wouldn`t want to sit in some of them for an `ordinary` night out as they have seen better days a long long time ago. Large enough venues are very few and far between so we will have to wait and see what happens in the future. Part of the decline perhaps.....................

Sharon

And also you can get a pack of beer from the supermarket,for the price of 3, pints from a pub.

Kev

[Sharon Cooper]

And also you can get a pack of beer from the supermarket,for the price of 3, pints from a pub.

Kev

Now that is very true, although drink at`our` welfare is really extremely cheap...I don`t drink much so the regulars at Pilsley would have to give a view on that one actually...There is big debate about the price of drinks at all these sorts of places but I also think that the general `ambience` of the majority leaves a lot to be desired for a night out (For me anyway) I suppose it depends if you like snooker/pool, dominoes, darts in the company of 6 others or a `turn` on a Friday/Saturday night. They haven`t really moved on from their glory days and it is like being in Phoenix nights at most!

[Dazcymru]

Around here many soul night are held in Miners Welfares, all as with other parts of the country have had a part to play in Northern Culture from way back when they started digging 'black gold' out of the ground. In fact lots of those on the scene here were Miners themselves and some run Soul Nights.

Times though change and it seems that the Welfare has had it's day. Since the mines closed those attending Welfares has dropped markedly and many struggle to keep open. Last Thursday only 2 people entered our local welfare all day and it survives souly, or so they tell me, on the amount coming to Pilsley Soul each month.

Now it seems those who own the Welfares or some of them anyway are about to bring the curtain down on many of them (those NOT making a profit, or so I'm led to believe). Think about it, how much must the real estate that welfares stand on be worth, be a lot better to stick a dozen or so houses on it and make a packet.

I understand that the word is that they have got to start making a profit soon or thats it, well I don't know but has anybody else who runs a Welfare soul club heard anything on these lines.

Chris

Very true Miners Welfare in Wrexham closed it's doors early in July. Had two rooms 200+ upstairs and smaller 100 downstairs. Ran soul nights of some discription almost every month with the odd two roomer over the years. In the end just owed the VAT man too much money. Building not been put up for sale but coupled with bowling green and car park worth a bomb as situated right on edge of town centre.

Very sad indeed.

[Sharon Cooper]

Out last night and have to say that the state of some of these venues is appalling.Not the committees fault completely though as the lack of funding over the years has meant that the majority are completely run down and in a bad state of repair: Historically northern do`s were not reknowned for there salubrious surroundings (I`ve been to quite a few dives in my 34 years around and about the scene!) which is ok if all you want to do is listen to music, dance, socialise and drink but for many people nowadays their expectations are greater than this and WMC`s, MW`s etc. are never now going to able to cut it as venues for social events!

S

x

[ALFRETON SOUL CLUB]

Out last night and have to say that the state of some of these venues is appalling.Not the committees fault completely though as the lack of funding over the years has meant that the majority are completely run down and in a bad state of repair: Historically northern do`s were not reknowned for there salubrious surroundings (I`ve been to quite a few dives in my 34 years around and about the scene!) which is ok if all you want to do is listen to music, dance, socialise and drink but for many people nowadays their expectations are greater than this and WMC`s, MW`s etc. are never now going to able to cut it as venues for social events!

S

x

Give a big thankyou to the smoking ban it did a world of good to these already struggling pubs and clubs ,well done hse ,i think that people are not getting the jist of it yet ,smoking is bad for your heath ,drinking is too,these people dont want you going out,they dont want pubs or clubs they are the HSE a power more stronger than the police.they have the right to decide what is best for us

[poppy]

Give a big thankyou to the smoking ban it did a world of good to these already struggling pubs and clubs ,well done hse ,i think that people are not getting the jist of it yet ,smoking is bad for your heath ,drinking is too,these people dont want you going out,they dont want pubs or clubs they are the HSE a power more stronger than the police.they have the right to decide what is best for us

Actually, its been a lot better for us who dont smoke!, and the majority of soul people go for the music and to socialize, not the drink and fags!

[Sharon Cooper]

Actually, its been a lot better for us who dont smoke!, and the majority of soul people go for the music and to socialize, not the drink and fags!

True, and HSE are not responsible for the smoking ban, If you can't go out for a night without a 'fag & pint' then there is something wrong. But the point is there a more than one factor regarding the situation. Pubs were closing and being sold for building plots long before the smoking ban> it is a change in culture, where we spend our time and how we spend our money.

[Mak]

True, and HSE are not responsible for the smoking ban, If you can't go out for a night without a 'fag & pint' then there is something wrong. But the point is there a more than one factor regarding the situation. Pubs were closing and being sold for building plots long before the smoking ban> it is a change in culture, where we spend our time and how we spend our money.

I believe the Coal Board sold all the Welfares off en-block when they were privatised to a company who's name has slipped my memory . You have to understand this is now prime building land , and as Ian(Alfretonsoulclub) will verify they want to close them , knock them down and sooner or later build build build as in the case of Leabrooks Welfare in Derbyshire . A number of soulnights were held there. This company don't really give two shits about soul music or enterainment. To be honest most are shit tips anyway . Never mind the cigarettes or stale beer. They are filthy . There is only Pilsley that i dare drink out of a glass.

Edited August 24, 2008 by MAK

[FrankM]

Northern Clubs' Federation Brewery was set up as a cooperative by workers in a variety of industries not necessarily coal. It was taken over a few years ago by Scottish & Newcastle who had previously got rid of their old tied estate to a splinter company. That splinter company has been leasing pubs out and selling them off if they could not find a leasee.

Just as there are still thriving pubs there are also thriving social clubs but the licensed trade over all is in trouble. Social clubns in Scotland started losing trade in the late seventies when public houses were finally allowed to open seven days. However the good ones survived. they do tend to have an aging membership and a memeber ship that smoked. They were male dominated for ages but the survivors have adapted and can compete with local pubs.

[ALFRETON SOUL CLUB]

True, and HSE are not responsible for the smoking ban, If you can't go out for a night without a 'fag & pint' then there is something wrong. But the point is there a more than one factor regarding the situation. Pubs were closing and being sold for building plots long before the smoking ban> it is a change in culture, where we spend our time and how we spend our money.

you are missing the point again bridget,you stated that mw's was no longer making money exept for like say pilsley the soul nights run there.miners welfares was a place the old miners would go and have a game of darts and dominos even play bingo ,have a fag and a pint and generally socialise,and yes hse is a part of it ,these old folks now stay at home there only enjoyment in life was taken from them,since the smoking ban the welfares are dead as with many pubs a good example as mak states is leabrooks ,it was a thriving buisiness before the ban.the thing that pisses me off is just how many of you didnt attend soul nights before the ban,this country is being run by a bunch of idiots ,back in 1985 or whenever it was the miners strike ,the word was democracy what happened to that,what happened to people having a right to decide.and this so called hse is the very thing that has destroyed future soul nights at alfreton.so please dont talk to me about hse.

[Sharon Cooper]

you are missing the point again bridget,you stated that mw's was no longer making money exept for like say pilsley the soul nights run there.miners welfares was a place the old miners would go and have a game of darts and dominos even play bingo ,have a fag and a pint and generally socialise,and yes hse is a part of it ,these old folks now stay at home there only enjoyment in life was taken from them,since the smoking ban the welfares are dead as with many pubs a good example as mak states is leabrooks ,it was a thriving buisiness before the ban.the thing that pisses me off is just how many of you didnt attend soul nights before the ban,this country is being run by a bunch of idiots ,back in 1985 or whenever it was the miners strike ,the word was democracy what happened to that,what happened to people having a right to decide.and this so called hse is the very thing that has destroyed future soul nights at alfreton.so please dont talk to me about hse.

Not sure what you are on about. Old folks don't go to clubs because they are older and maybe unable to get out as much. secondly you brought the HSE into it not me. Living with a woman who is a RGN, RMN & has a degree in Health & Social Care I think we can say with some confidence that there is more to the smoking ban than HSE. The smoking ban is about the health of the nation as a whole. There are plenty of us who can go out and have a great night out without having the need to smoke and as for democracy then now the boot is on the other foot, you now know how it feels. I probably agree with you on the current government but would go further and say democracy as we know it is a falacy. We live in short term dictatorships, it's length depending on how well the goverment can lie itself into the next term.

Anyway i digress, the fact is and remains that the culture of the nation is changing and I'm pretty sure that if the smoking ban had not come into affect then the WMC & MWs woud still be closing and still be SH*** holes, just as the were before the ban. That though is the point, MW & WMs clubs have been run down for years. The lack of investment and maintanence is obvious and that can only be because of a lack of money to spend on them.

With regard to attending soul nights. Personally and from my own experience the majority of people I know who attend soul nights now, attended them BEFORE the smoking ban, smokers and non smokers alike.

We may not have liked the idea but it didn't stop us attending just as now smokers still attend but have the option of going out of the room for a fag.

Finally i think its a bit patronising to assume that the only enjoyment old folks who attended MWs & Wms clubs had was to sit and have a fag and chat, well thats it then in another 10 years I'll have to sit at home and be miserable cause I don't smoke so i can't socialise.

Your point is from a smoking bias therefore your post reflects that and ultimately democracy is about what the majority want not the minority. It isn't democracy if it's all about what you think is right.

Chris

Edited August 25, 2008 by bridget

[Lofty]

A couple of points to add to this lively non-soul debate..

1. HSE only have responsibility for enforcing non-smoking in certain workplaces (almost certainly not WM clubs- this is more likely to be a local authority responsibility)-so we cant really blame them (although I dedicate my professional life to keeping various businesses out of their clutches ) The smoking ban is however an attempt at joined up Government policy making and enforcement, which seeks to reduce the burden on the health service from the negative impacts of health caused by excessive smoking. I can see Ian's point about the impact this might have on an individual's preferrence to smoke- but there is also the argument that the social or community benefits are also important.

2. The miners welfares used to be the hub of the mining communities, serving social, sporting and entertainment needs - but the destruction of the coal industry has exposed the welfares to the full market forces of all the competing businesses in the areas which serve those markets- and it would be a miricle if they could have survived in the long term.

Personally, I think this is a great shame- and a bit more support of soul nights in the welfares might keep them going for a bit longer, and - again a personal view being expressed here, I think it makes sense for the soul scene to align itself with these community-based independant businesses and show a bit of support.

Hi to Ian and Sharon by the way!

Lofty

[Sharon Cooper]

A couple of points to add to this lively non-soul debate..

1. HSE only have responsibility for enforcing non-smoking in certain workplaces (almost certainly not WM clubs- this is more likely to be a local authority responsibility)-so we cant really blame them (although I dedicate my professional life to keeping various businesses out of their clutches ) The smoking ban is however an attempt at joined up Government policy making and enforcement, which seeks to reduce the burden on the health service from the negative impacts of health caused by excessive smoking. I can see Ian's point about the impact this might have on an individual's preferrence to smoke- but there is also the argument that the social or community benefits are also important.

2. The miners welfares used to be the hub of the mining communities, serving social, sporting and entertainment needs - but the destruction of the coal industry has exposed the welfares to the full market forces of all the competing businesses in the areas which serve those markets- and it would be a miricle if they could have survived in the long term.

Personally, I think this is a great shame- and a bit more support of soul nights in the welfares might keep them going for a bit longer, and - again a personal view being expressed here, I think it makes sense for the soul scene to align itself with these community-based independant businesses and show a bit of support.

Hi to Ian and Sharon by the way!

Lofty

and - again a personal view being expressed here, I think it makes sense for the soul scene to align itself with these community-based independant businesses and show a bit of support

Hi Lofty

Can't see this happening, where not in this to support Independant Business.We are in it for the Soul and punters will pay to go where they think they'll have a good time, hear good music and have some banter with their pals. If the business fails we'll just have to find other places and lets face it there are plenty of others who provide good venues with good facilities.

Chris

[Lofty]

Hi Chris

You are right of course. And big business wins in the end. If the welfares are trading in a decade it will be because they are competitive- rather than any nostalgic right to exist.

Cheers for now

Lofty

and - again a personal view being expressed here, I think it makes sense for the soul scene to align itself with these community-based independant businesses and show a bit of support

Hi Lofty

Can't see this happening, where not in this to support Independant Business.We are in it for the Soul and punters will pay to go where they think they'll have a good time, hear good music and have some banter with their pals. If the business fails we'll just have to find other places and lets face it there are plenty of others who provide good venues with good facilities.

Chris

[Sharon Cooper]

Around here many soul night are held in Miners Welfares, all as with other parts of the country have had a part to play in Northern Culture from way back when they started digging 'black gold' out of the ground. In fact lots of those on the scene here were Miners themselves and some run Soul Nights.

Times though change and it seems that the Welfare has had it's day. Since the mines closed those attending Welfares has dropped markedly and many struggle to keep open. Last Thursday only 2 people entered our local welfare all day and it survives souly, or so they tell me, on the amount coming to Pilsley Soul each month.

Now it seems those who own the Welfares or some of them anyway are about to bring the curtain down on many of them (those NOT making a profit, or so I'm led to believe). Think about it, how much must the real estate that welfares stand on be worth, be a lot better to stick a dozen or so houses on it and make a packet.

I understand that the word is that they have got to start making a profit soon or thats it, well I don't know but has anybody else who runs a Welfare soul club heard anything on these lines.

Chris

Looks like I spoke to soon, Calow WM Club near Chesterfield is to close this Sunday, not even allowing us to have a last night in September. It seems the owner wants the money for personal reasons. Whos next me wonders?

Chris

[Dr Good Soul]

Actually, its been a lot better for us who dont smoke!, and the majority of soul people go for the music and to socialize, not the drink and fags!

I don't smoke but i like a beer or two when it's not my turn

to drive

but would'nt say i go to an event to socialize

i go for the music

Steve.

[Tomangoes]

There was a time when Northern Soul talk was only done at Northern Soul events, and the odd home made fanzine.

Now you can do it from anyhwere anytime. Blackberry, Iphone, woggle sim adaptor.

Time Marches ON.

Who will be the first promoter to have an online event or maybe a sky channel where you get your mates round and have a virtual nighter in the front room (all the easier now the 'laminate' floor has arrived). Everybody has cordless headphones on so no problem with noise pollution.

I know the sky radio soul northern thingy failed, but that should be improved to add a real virtual DJ in front of the decks etc. Live or pre-recorded, press the red button for requesting the next toon, Skype in several sitting rooms to watch others doing the same?

Come on you know its going to come, who's the trend setting DJ who could be the anchor?

Even Bingo clumps together several halls to compete for the big prize. Maybe soul nights could be linked with a big video screen beaming in the top DJs and Sounds to make the biggest worldwide Northern Soul event ever.

If you can imagine it, it can be done, and will be done. Probably already has to some extent for the rave scene.

Ed

[Tomangoes]

There was a time when Northern Soul talk was only done at Northern Soul events, and the odd home made fanzine.

Now you can do it from anyhwere anytime. Blackberry, Iphone, woggle sim adaptor.

Time Marches ON.

Who will be the first promoter to have an online event or maybe a sky channel where you get your mates round and have a virtual nighter in the front room (all the easier now the 'laminate' floor has arrived). Everybody has cordless headphones on so no problem with noise pollution.

I know the sky radio soul northern thingy failed, but that should be improved to add a real virtual DJ in front of the decks etc. Live or pre-recorded, press the red button for requesting the next toon, Skype in several sitting rooms to watch others doing the same?

Come on you know its going to come, who's the trend setting DJ who could be the anchor?

Even Bingo clumps together several halls to compete for the big prize. Maybe soul nights could be linked with a big video screen beaming in the top DJs and Sounds to make the biggest worldwide Northern Soul event ever.

If you can imagine it, it can be done, and will be done. Probably already has to some extent for the rave scene.

Ed

[SteveM]

Looks like I spoke to soon, Calow WM Club near Chesterfield is to close this Sunday, not even allowing us to have a last night in September. It seems the owner wants the money for personal reasons. Whos next me wonders?

Chris

Is Calow privately owned Chris ?

Most WMC and MW's are owned by the members, many own property but face increasing losses and breweries wanting their loans back. Some committees can face personal bankruptcy if they let the club trade insolvently and few are willing to take that risk. Even less people want to be a treasurer or whatever these days. Based around traditional licensing hours, they hold little appeal to the younger generations.

Their is a trend for clubs to be sold to private individuals/smaller pub companies who take on the existing debt and continue to trade while building a smaller club on the site and then developing the rest of the site for housing.

With regard to the Northern Fedaration, when they sold out, all members (ie Clubs) were paid a dividend from the proceeds. In some cases this amounted to a substantial amount, guaranteeing some clubs future for the next few years.

Scottish and Newcastle are still heavily involved in the Club trade.

[Rednose]

a friend who runs a local social club contacted me and expressed an interest in starting up a soul nite, i said i would ask around to see who could promote and dj for him but could he wait till after my holidays.when i got back club shut,not heard from my friend yet or what the plans are for the club all within a month.who knows if this sort of thing keeps happening maybe it will sort out the problems of too many venues on the same night!!!!

Edited September 2, 2008 by rednose

[Sharon Cooper]

Is Calow privately owned Chris ?

Most WMC and MW's are owned by the members, many own property but face increasing losses and breweries wanting their loans back. Some committees can face personal bankruptcy if they let the club trade insolvently and few are willing to take that risk. Even less people want to be a treasurer or whatever these days. Based around traditional licensing hours, they hold little appeal to the younger generations.

Their is a trend for clubs to be sold to private individuals/smaller pub companies who take on the existing debt and continue to trade while building a smaller club on the site and then developing the rest of the site for housing.

With regard to the Northern Fedaration, when they sold out, all members (ie Clubs) were paid a dividend from the proceeds. In some cases this amounted to a substantial amount, guaranteeing some clubs future for the next few years.

Scottish and Newcastle are still heavily involved in the Club trade.

Yep it seems it is privately owned, and he apparently has a few financial problems, so what can one do? nowt I guess, shame too because the night was just begining to take off.

chris

Edited September 2, 2008 by bridget