Copyright Issue Again Boot Or Not

[Ernie Andrews]

Theres aguy in NewZealand selling white labels- he says all he is trying to do is cover his own costs as he wants to transfer his copies onto better vinyl copies

This is the reply to my question as the original question I asked him was Have Sony Given you permission to copy the dfollowing link?

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...E:X:AAQ:GB:1123

Then I got this reply - Is this real or what

I contacted APRO to make sure that what I was doing was legally possible...the main reason for reproduction was to preserve my original singles, LP's & CD's.

Straight From Apro:-

CASUAL REPRODUCTION LICENCE (FORMERLY IN-STORE REPRODUCTION LICENCE)

We have a Casual Reproduction Licence which enables you to transfer AMCOS controlled musical works from CD or legal digital download onto a system of your choice, such as a hard drive, iPod or MP3 player for the purposes of compiling recordings for in-store use. This licence costs $100 + GST per year for up to 500 songs plus 20 cents per track exceeding 500. You may change the songs at your discretion. You will need one licence per system, so if you want to operate a system in more than one venue/store/business you will need a licence for each location.

This licence covers the mechanical reproduction (or "dubbing") of the works on to a system; you will still need the APRA Retail Background Music licence for the public performance of the music. Please contact Greer Donovan.

This allows me to copy anything I have in my collection CD, LP, Tape, Download, Single & reproduce to a media of my choice apart from online downloads, in this case it's vinyl.

Now with regards to selling a separate license is also required aN "Audio Manufacture Licence".

Again quoted from AMCOS:-

The cost depends on the amount of copyright and non-copyright (traditional) songs and also the amount of copies you are wanting to make and the retail price of the album.

I will include an example equation to give you some idea. (9/12) x RRP x no. of units made x 5.6% = estimate price.

The Retail Background Music Licence allows for people that are making their own compilations and playing them in store, i.e department stores etc etc this was not required.

After purchasing the license the people who manufacture the vinyl WILL NOT produce anything until they have the appropriate documentation provided with the initial order.

"So what do people think - Is this genuine or just an excuse to boot records?"

[Cunnie]

Link took me to a guy selling a rocking chair!

Surely folks ain't booting them.

[Baz Atkinson]

YEP I GOT THE ROCKING CHAIR BEEN AN ARMCHAIR COLLECTOR OF SORTS IT KIND OF PISSED ME OFF THAT THEIR HAVE THE TEMERITY TO BOOTLEG FINE WOOD! LOL.

BAZ A

[Ian Dewhirst]

Theres aguy in NewZealand selling white labels- he says all he is trying to do is cover his own costs as he wants to transfer his copies onto better vinyl copies

This is the reply to my question as the original question I asked him was Have Sony Given you permission to copy the dfollowing link?

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...E:X:AAQ:GB:1123

Then I got this reply - Is this real or what

I contacted APRO to make sure that what I was doing was legally possible...the main reason for reproduction was to preserve my original singles, LP's & CD's.

Straight From Apro:-

CASUAL REPRODUCTION LICENCE (FORMERLY IN-STORE REPRODUCTION LICENCE)

We have a Casual Reproduction Licence which enables you to transfer AMCOS controlled musical works from CD or legal digital download onto a system of your choice, such as a hard drive, iPod or MP3 player for the purposes of compiling recordings for in-store use. This licence costs $100 + GST per year for up to 500 songs plus 20 cents per track exceeding 500. You may change the songs at your discretion. You will need one licence per system, so if you want to operate a system in more than one venue/store/business you will need a licence for each location.

This licence covers the mechanical reproduction (or "dubbing") of the works on to a system; you will still need the APRA Retail Background Music licence for the public performance of the music. Please contact Greer Donovan.

This allows me to copy anything I have in my collection CD, LP, Tape, Download, Single & reproduce to a media of my choice apart from online downloads, in this case it's vinyl.

Now with regards to selling a separate license is also required aN "Audio Manufacture Licence".

Again quoted from AMCOS:-

The cost depends on the amount of copyright and non-copyright (traditional) songs and also the amount of copies you are wanting to make and the retail price of the album.

I will include an example equation to give you some idea. (9/12) x RRP x no. of units made x 5.6% = estimate price.

The Retail Background Music Licence allows for people that are making their own compilations and playing them in store, i.e department stores etc etc this was not required.

After purchasing the license the people who manufacture the vinyl WILL NOT produce anything until they have the appropriate documentation provided with the initial order.

"So what do people think - Is this genuine or just an excuse to boot records?"

Without seeing the exact law, I would say that there will probably be a clause in there which specifically will not allow commercial re-sale of the repertoire. In other words, these licences probably specifically cover promotional/in-store use only.

Furthermore, if the guy is replicating owned copyrights, I would have thought he will still have to approach the repertoire owner for permission. I can't see the guy being allowed to re-produce white label runs of the Beatles, Rolling Stones, Stevie Wonder, Luther Vandross or Otis Redding without being zapped by EMI, Universal, Sony-BMG and Warners can you?

But you know what?

I can stroll into HMV and Zavvi (formally Virgin) and see major label repertoire bootlegs everywhere LOL. I've even been in there with major label people who know about it, but no action is ever taken.

I think it's just too legally expensive for major labels to chase fly-by-night bootleggers who they may eventually get, but have little chance of actually getting their costs back. In other words, most bootlegs, especially Northern Soul ones, are effectively 'below the radar' for most labels and simply not worth anyone's efforts in trying to curtail them.

As a result, it's almost open season for 'low-run' Northern Soul bootleggers. Unknown artists, unknown labels, a high demand for special limited edition low-run, 500 off pressings of an obscure artist and a willing audience who just want the sound. The bootleggers have been handed everything on a plate LOL.

No one is gonna break their arse furiously chasing down the latest bootleg of Clyde McPhatter, Lee Fields or the Del-Larks believe me..........

Ian D

Edited August 1, 2008 by Ian Dewhirst

[Guest Fatius Bumius]

I think Ernies got a bit mixed up with the rocking chair link Sellers got white labels of Trini Lopez, backed with "can't remember". Think he had a few more titles as well. Sure I had his Trini in my watchlist but it's gone, EBay might have removed it if anyones reported it for being counterfeit. Said he gets a back up of his own copy done and the run of a record is 20 to make it worth while. He then sells the other 19 to recoup the cost of getting 20 done. Is this the one you're on about Ernie ? Can't bl**dy well find the seller now

[Guest Fatius Bumius]

vinylrecordcutting sellers still at it as well, 108 white labels listed.

Found the NZ seller, I didn't look far enough 120289643048

Edited August 1, 2008 by Fatius Bumius

[Ian Dewhirst]

I think Ernies got a bit mixed up with the rocking chair link Sellers got white labels of Trini Lopez, backed with "can't remember". Think he had a few more titles as well. Sure I had his Trini in my watchlist but it's gone, EBay might have removed it if anyones reported it for being counterfeit. Said he gets a back up of his own copy done and the run of a record is 20 to make it worth while. He then sells the other 19 to recoup the cost of getting 20 done. Is this the one you're on about Ernie ? Can't bl**dy well find the seller now

I can't see the major record corporations hounding down a Trini Lopez bootleg from Australia either LOL....

Unless I'm mistaken, the Trini Lopez recordings were A&M owned originally ("If I Had A Hammer" was Herb Alpert's first success with hiis new label I seem to remember) and A&M is now owned by Universal, so the world's biggest record company owns Trini Lopez I think (unless it was some tiny hispanic label).

Either way, Trini isn't at the top of anyone's priority list these days.......

Ian D

[Guest Fatius Bumius]

Well ain't bootlegging bootlegging no matter who the artist ? How small the run ?? Principles the same ? Wether or not they'll be chased by any authority/music company is another thing.

back under my rock.....

[Ernie Andrews]

I think Ernies got a bit mixed up with the rocking chair link Sellers got white labels of Trini Lopez, backed with "can't remember". Think he had a few more titles as well. Sure I had his Trini in my watchlist but it's gone, EBay might have removed it if anyones reported it for being counterfeit. Said he gets a back up of his own copy done and the run of a record is 20 to make it worth while. He then sells the other 19 to recoup the cost of getting 20 done. Is this the one you're on about Ernie ? Can't bl**dy well find the seller now

Yes sorry Guys about the Rocking chair - was having a Val Doonican moment

Yes hees selling Trini Lopez backed with Mel Torme Comin- Home

Well if the record companys are going to hunt down tyoung kids who download a fewe tunes why arnt they after this bloke.

Its the nerve of him to try to dress it up under some other reason that gets to me!

[Ady Croasdell]

It does seem that only record companies and master owners who care go after smaller scale bootleggers. Ace certainly go for them, some of the majors don't always chase them up though.

[Guest bazabod_downunder]

Just had a squizz, I know the guy selling it.

KTF

Baz

vinylrecordcutting sellers still at it as well, 108 white labels listed.

Found the NZ seller, I didn't look far enough 120289643048