Mvp's Were A Black Soul Group....thanks Tabs

[Soul-slider]

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/redirec...nion_id%3D11620

Read it and then tell me they were a white pop/rock outfit!

Thanks to Tabs for finding this. Thought I'd start a new thread just in case a lot of the sceptics have abandoned the previous thread.

Edited July 29, 2008 by Soul-Slider

[Guest]

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/redirec...nion_id%3D11620

Read it and then tell me they were a white pop/rock outfit!

Thanks to Tabs for finding this. Thought I'd start a new thread just in case a lot of the sceptics have abandoned the previous thread.

R&B band !!

[Ted Massey]

Cmon Terry do the right thing

[Guest Beeks]

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/redirec...nion_id%3D11620

Read it and then tell me they were a white pop/rock outfit!

Thanks to Tabs for finding this. Thought I'd start a new thread just in case a lot of the sceptics have abandoned the previous thread.

Haha Class...I feel humble pie coming on

[Ted Massey]

does that mean it worth more now

[Wrongcrowd]

Haha Class...I feel humble pie coming on

You're all missing the point..........it's not about colour it's about the singing style and the the conviction and emotion that shouts out through the lyrics.

Black or white the MVP's sang a pop song, unlike the groups like the Magnificent Men who sang soul with conviction and emotion.

If you don't get it, then maybe you never will.......

Edited July 29, 2008 by Wrongcrowd

[Wrongcrowd]

does that mean it worth more now

Well it's definitely a rarity Ted....a black pop group with less soul than Des O'Connor

[Soul-slider]

You're all missing the point..........it's not about colour it's about the singing style and the the conviction and emotion that shouts out through the lyrics.

Black or white the MVP's sang a pop song, unlike the groups like the Magnificent Men who sang soul with conviction and emotion.

If you don't get it, then maybe you never will.......

Definitely agree with you there! One of the best blue-eyed soul outfits of the 60's. Great group.

[Guest Beeks]

You're all missing the point..........it's not about colour it's about the singing style and the the conviction and emotion that shouts out through the lyrics.

Black or white the MVP's sang a pop song, unlike the groups like the Magnificent Men who sang soul with conviction and emotion.

If you don't get it, then maybe you never will.......

Ok joking aside...I agree...its not a soul record...and like ive mentioned previously its not my cup of tea...but I must admit its a belting dancer so who cares

[Soul-slider]

Ok joking aside...I agree...its not a soul record...and like ive mentioned previously its not my cup of tea...but I must admit its a belting dancer so who cares

It's a NORTHERN soul record though !!! ooops

[Guest]

You're all missing the point..........it's not about colour it's about the singing style and the the conviction and emotion that shouts out through the lyrics.

Black or white the MVP's sang a pop song, unlike the groups like the Magnificent Men who sang soul with conviction and emotion.

If you don't get, then maybe you never will.......

Obviously you dont get it!!.........me i'm not bothered i like it pop stock and both barrels,but then i don't listen to this every day till i get sick of it and i go to places that probberly won't play it,same with all me records don't have a hot box just loads of boxes with new ones and old ones all mixed up and when asked to do a set i have to go through em' all again,i like lt like that none of my records ever feel neglected are are all very happy.

[Guest Beeks]

It's a NORTHERN soul record though !!! ooops

Again...I can't disagree...its like a countdown conundurum

[Soul-slider]

Obviously you dont get it!!.........me i'm not bothered i like it pop stock and both barrels,but then i don't listen to this every day till i get sick of it and i go to places that probberly won't play it,same with all me records don't have a hot box just loads of boxes with new ones and old ones all mixed up and when asked to do a set i have to go through em' all again,i like lt like that none of my records ever feel neglected are are all very happy.

Is that a straight jacket you're wearing in your pic Ken?

[Guest]

Is that a straight jacket you're wearing in your pic Ken?

No it's Ian Lavine in his streight jacket,i don't do streght.

[Soul-slider]

No it's Ian Lavine in his streight jacket,i don't do streght.

Oh I see him now, doh! Thought you'd been eating too many pies.

[Guest gordon russell]

You're all missing the point..........it's not about colour it's about the singing style and the the conviction and emotion that shouts out through the lyrics.

Black or white the MVP's sang a pop song, unlike the groups like the Magnificent Men who sang soul with conviction and emotion.

If you don't get it, then maybe you never will.......

Thank you very much mate.......spot on it ain't about colour at all. I just happened to think they were white,l was wrong about that fair enough....The thought that black folk don't sing pop is daft,have you heard "turning my heartbeat up " by the M.V.P'S LOL.The thought also that as long as they are black,whatever shite they sing makes it soul is bollox.........might be northern soul.....but not SOUL ATB tezza

[Guest gordon russell]

Cmon Terry do the right thing

duly done mate lol

[Pauldonnelly]

but isn;t the Mellow soul biggie a pop record sung by a bunch of honkys?

[boba]

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/redirec...nion_id%3D11620

Read it and then tell me they were a white pop/rock outfit!

Thanks to Tabs for finding this. Thought I'd start a new thread just in case a lot of the sceptics have abandoned the previous thread.

How do you know his dad was Black? OH SNAP, YOU GOT SERVED

Seriously, though, it was interesting to find out. Another good thread would be R&B / Rap artists who are related to soul people. For example, Otis Jackson's kid is Madlib, Fantasia Barrino is related to the Barrino Brothers, etc.

[Guest Beeks]

How do you know his dad was Black? OH SNAP, YOU GOT SERVED

Seriously, though, it was interesting to find out. Another good thread would be R&B / Rap artists who are related to soul people. For example, Otis Jackson's kid is Madlib, Fantasia Barrino is related to the Barrino Brothers, etc.

I got chatting to a guy on Myspace whos now a friend, who is the son of Milton Wright (Keep It Up) He's a rapper/reggae artist...nice guy...he forwarded my compliments to his dad who is still alive and kicking He said his dad was made up some white kid in the UK loves his stuff hahaha

[macca]

Well I never. Has anybody asked him for photos of his dad's combo?

Did they release any other stuff on Buddha? We just might get to see their more soulful side, who knows?

[Steve G]

Thank you very much mate.......spot on it ain't about colour at all. I just happened to think they were white,l was wrong about that fair enough....The thought that black folk don't sing pop is daft,have you heard "turning my heartbeat up " by the M.V.P'S LOL.The thought also that as long as they are black,whatever shite they sing makes it soul is bollox.........might be northern soul.....but not SOUL ATB tezza

Too true - Kelly Garrett - black and as poppy as they come.

[Chalky]

but isn;t the Mellow soul biggie a pop record sung by a bunch of honkys?

do you mean the mello souls as in Butch biggie? if so they are black.

[Garethx]

How do you know his dad was Black? OH SNAP, YOU GOT SERVED

Seriously, though, it was interesting to find out. Another good thread would be R&B / Rap artists who are related to soul people. For example, Otis Jackson's kid is Madlib, Fantasia Barrino is related to the Barrino Brothers, etc.

Lynn Vernado is the aunt of Snoop Dogg.

[Guest lifeandsoul]

How do you know his dad was Black? OH SNAP, YOU GOT SERVED

Seriously, though, it was interesting to find out. Another good thread would be R&B / Rap artists who are related to soul people. For example, Otis Jackson's kid is Madlib, Fantasia Barrino is related to the Barrino Brothers, etc.

Chandlar - new york indie soul artist - his uncle kermit of the sheppards , Chandlar in the Union Jack top

Edited July 30, 2008 by lifeandsoul

[Wiganer1]

Too true - Kelly Garrett - black and as poppy as they come.

===

loves the only answer - what an ace tune!

[Dave Pinch]

do you mean the mello souls as in Butch biggie? if so they are black.

its a great record chalks............ but it sounds pop and it sounds white

im sure not all black singers thought `i cant sound too black or i might not

get out of this town` they wanted to make money and sell some

records. Obvious point i know but colour not important to a great tune

it just seems better when its a big black fella with an afro rather than

a little white dude wi glasses

dave

[Chalky]

its a great record chalks............ but it sounds pop and it sounds white

im sure not all black singers thought `i cant sound too black or i might not

get out of this town` they wanted to make money and sell some

records. Obvious point i know but colour not important to a great tune

it just seems better when its a big black fella with an afro rather than

a little white dude wi glasses

dave

doesn't sound pop or white to these cloth ears Dave, black as the ace of spades. Steve Green met the lead singer, Silus Phiper in care home. There's another 45 by them on Candi, Silus Phiper on one side, Edwin Johnson on lead the other. It's in refosoul somewhere as I've posted it in the past.

[Ernie Andrews]

What about the Jewels(Not the 3 black ladies) - POP? ROCK? PSYCHE? what the hell was it?

Im talking about "WE got togetherness"

[Eddie Hubbard]

The Northern scene has always been about records that fitted the bill at the time , some being ultra soulful , many crass stompers , and some white artists that happened to sound right at the time .With the lyrical content and the fact that The M.V.P 's sounded different to a lot of other records at the time I can quite understand it's popularity , particularly as it's part of the sound track to " This England " , which would elevate this waxing to legendary status in many folks eyes .I wouldn't really care if I never heard it again , but with a lot of these records , they aren't just pieces of plastic , a lot of memories etc are tied up in them, and people can relate to them, rather like looking at an old photo , memories of a bygone era flood back .I don't think the black / white issue really comes into it , much of Gene McDaniels , Lenny Welch and even some of Ray Pollards sides veer close to M.O.R at times , as Cliff suggests , it's more a case of was it made as a Soul record [ Magnificent Men is a great example , they were obviously Soul fans .] It would be interesting to interview members of the group and find out what market they were aiming at .Best ,Eddie

[Eddie Hubbard]

What about the Jewels(Not the 3 black ladies) - POP? ROCK? PSYCHE? what the hell was it?

Im talking about "WE got togetherness"

I think it was probably a 60's garage record Ernie , sounded brilliant at the Casino , but way too fast for us over 50's to keep up to now Best ,Eddie

[Guest]

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/redirec...nion_id%3D11620

Read it and then tell me they were a white pop/rock outfit!

Thanks to Tabs for finding this. Thought I'd start a new thread just in case a lot of the sceptics have abandoned the previous thread.

Pleased this has come to light, as it just goes to show how much all the knockers know about the record.

Arranged and conducted by Horace Ott and made by a black R&B group in the early 70's!!!

Its not Jock Mitchell, but on the other hand its not a bad record, some people on here are far to fussy!

Edited July 31, 2008 by Guest

[Ian Dewhirst]

But wasn't DJ Toomp adopted into a white family? One of the few examples of cross-ethnic adoption in the early 1970's and part of the University of Atlanta 'Crossreach Adoption' programme?

I thought this was well publicised at the time as DJ Toomps adopted father was the lead vocalist of a relatively modest Atlanta white pop act called the MVP's...........

Ian D

[Sunnysoul]

But wasn't DJ Toomp adopted into a white family? One of the few examples of cross-ethnic adoption in the early 1970's and part of the University of Atlanta 'Crossreach Adoption' programme?

I thought this was well publicised at the time as DJ Toomps adopted father was the lead vocalist of a relatively modest Atlanta white pop act called the MVP's...........

Ian D

Well posted Ian !

People looked at the pic of DJ Toomp and just assumed his father had to be black :

... which can sometimes be a very dangerous assumption to make !

The vocalist on Turning My Heartbeat Up is clearly white !

Which is of course irrelevant, because no matter how one characterises the record - whether you think it is Pop Rock or Soul - Turning My Heartbeat Up is a fantastic piece of music !!!

It's an absolute credit to the Northern scene that this record is a classic.

Now, of much more interest to a trainspotter though are the credits on the record. The composers of Turning My Heartbeat Up were Bobby Flax and Lanny Lambert who along with producer Stan Vincent had various chart hits in the late 60's early 70's, notably with the Stairsteps.

The same writing and production team were behind another Northern Soul record that got some spins in the 70's, Willpower Weak Temptation Strong by the group called Bullett ... and I've always suspected that the vocalist on both the MVP's and Bullett were one and the same, probably a studio singer that the producer used behind various faceless groups.

Anyone ever thought the same thing ?

Edited July 31, 2008 by sunnysoul

[boba]

Well posted Ian !

People looked at the pic of DJ Toomp and just assumed his father had to be black :

... which can sometimes be a very dangerous assumption to make !

The vocalist on Turning My Heartbeat Up is clearly white !

Which is of course irrelevant, because no matter how one characterises the record - whether you think it is Pop Rock or Soul - Turning My Heartbeat Up is a fantastic piece of music !!!

It's an absolute credit to the Northern scene that this record is a classic.

Now, of much more interest to a trainspotter though are the credits on the record. The composers of Turning My Heartbeat Up were Bobby Flax and Lanny Lambert who along with producer Stan Vincent had various chart hits in the late 60's early 70's, notably with the Stairsteps.

The same writing and production team were behind another Northern Soul record that got some spins in the 70's, Willpower Weak Temptation Strong by the group called Bullett ... and I've always suspected that the vocalist on both the MVP's and Bullett were one and the same, probably a studio singer that the producer used behind various faceless groups.

Anyone ever thought the same thing ?

I actually suggested the thing about his father (jokingly) first, before Ian's post. I would like to point out the following things:

1) the vocalist does sound white, but it's very difficult to tell 100% for anything and this isn't one of those 100% clear cut cases

2) even if his dad was black and was in the group, that doesn't mean that the lead singer was not white. Especially if they were more of a pop / garage type group, it is not totally unlikely that they were not a mixed group. The backup singers do sound sort of white to me too, but who knows.

3) he does not have to be adopted for his dad to be white, his biological father could be white.

Edited July 31, 2008 by boba

[Paul R]

I actually suggested the thing about his father (jokingly) first, before Ian's post. I would like to point out the following things:

1) the vocalist does sound white, but it's very difficult to tell 100% for anything and this isn't one of those 100% clear cut cases

2) even if his dad was black and was in the group, that doesn't mean that the lead singer was not white. Especially if they were more of a pop / garage type group, it is not totally unlikely that they were not a mixed group. The backup singers do sound sort of white to me too, but who knows.

3) he does not have to be adopted for his dad to be white, his biological father could be white.

Can we get Jeremy Kyle to do some sort of DNA test to establish the facts so that once and for all we can find out if, as a soul fan, it is acceptable to dance to the MPVs.

We need to know.

Paul

[Guest]

But wasn't DJ Toomp adopted into a white family? One of the few examples of cross-ethnic adoption in the early 1970's and part of the University of Atlanta 'Crossreach Adoption' programme?

I thought this was well publicised at the time as DJ Toomps adopted father was the lead vocalist of a relatively modest Atlanta white pop act called the MVP's...........

Ian D

Bullshit!! Ian,with respect

[Soul-slider]

I actually suggested the thing about his father (jokingly) first, before Ian's post. I would like to point out the following things:

1) the vocalist does sound white, but it's very difficult to tell 100% for anything and this isn't one of those 100% clear cut cases

2) even if his dad was black and was in the group, that doesn't mean that the lead singer was not white. Especially if they were more of a pop / garage type group, it is not totally unlikely that they were not a mixed group. The backup singers do sound sort of white to me too, but who knows.

3) he does not have to be adopted for his dad to be white, his biological father could be white.

But he claims his father WAS the LEAD SINGER!

[Guest Netspeaky]

The Northern scene has always been about records that fitted the bill at the time , some being ultra soulful , many crass stompers , and some white artists that happened to sound right at the time .With the lyrical content and the fact that The M.V.P 's sounded different to a lot of other records at the time I can quite understand it's popularity , particularly as it's part of the sound track to " This England " , which would elevate this waxing to legendary status in many folks eyes .I wouldn't really care if I never heard it again , but with a lot of these records , they aren't just pieces of plastic , a lot of memories etc are tied up in them, and people can relate to them, rather like looking at an old photo , memories of a bygone era flood back .I don't think the black / white issue really comes into it , much of Gene McDaniels , Lenny Welch and even some of Ray Pollards sides veer close to M.O.R at times , as Cliff suggests , it's more a case of was it made as a Soul record [ Magnificent Men is a great example , they were obviously Soul fans .] It would be interesting to interview members of the group and find out what market they were aiming at .Best ,Eddie

Eddie I've spoken with David Bupp of the Mag Men, the were white soul guys who wanted to sound like the Temps, Impressions etc, simple as that.

[boba]

But he claims his father WAS the LEAD SINGER!

OK, then that clarifies that point. Either way, I assume the group is probably black given he's black and his dad was in the group, I'm just saying that it's not a 100% certainty. Thanks.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Bullshit!! Ian,with respect

Ian D

[Sean Hampsey]

The same writing and production team were behind another Northern Soul record that got some spins in the 70's, Willpower Weak Temptation Strong by the group called Bullett ... and I've always suspected that the vocalist on both the MVP's and Bullett were one and the same, probably a studio singer that the producer used behind various faceless groups.

Anyone ever thought the same thing ?

I nearly posted that same little known fact (or rumour?) days (or was it weeks ) ago on this thread.

At the time the MVP's was played it was always speculated that these were the same crowd as Bullett - recorders of "Willpower Weak".

But now, as new evidence has come to light, I think the MVP's were most probably a trio of Spencer Wiggins, James Carr and Bobby Womack...

...plus that other blokes Dad on the banjo!

Sean

Edited July 31, 2008 by Sean Hampsey

[Sean Hampsey]

Lynn Vernado is the aunt of Snoop Dogg.

Jaheim's uncle = Hoagy Lands.

[Sunnysoul]

I nearly posted that same little known fact (or rumour?) days (or was it weeks ) ago on this thread.

At the time the MVP's was played it was always speculated that these were the same crowd as Bullett - recorders of "Willpower Weak".

But now, as new evidence has come to light, I think the MVP's were most probably a trio of Spencer Wiggins, James Carr and Bobby Womack...

...plus that other blokes Dad on the banjo!

Sean

Another great blue eyed soul dancer by the same writing and production team is "Alive and Well" by a group called Spare Change on the Vanguard label.

Not sure if it ever got any spins on the Northern Scene. Has all the ingredients.

Anyone ?

[Ian Dewhirst]

Another great blue eyed soul dancer by the same writing and production team is "Alive and Well" by a group called Spare Change on the Vanguard label.

Not sure if it ever got any spins on the Northern Scene. Has all the ingredients.

Anyone ?

Nope, never heard of it.

However, it will only hit legendary status if the necessary ingredients are present. These are:-

1) Lead vocalist must sound obviously 'white' no matter what enthic group he comes from.

2) There must be a white production team with a good pop sensibility behind them.

3) The song title must contain a verifield cliche e.g. "Turning My Heartbeat Up", "Willpower Weak, Temptation Strong", "Happiness In My Heart", "More Today Then Yesterday", "Daylight Saving Time" etc, etc.

4) It really helps if the lead singer has adopted an American-African son who would like to be an aspiring rapper.

Ian D