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Mvp's Were A Black Soul Group....thanks Tabs

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Wrongcrowd Veteran

Wrongcrowd

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Haha Class...I feel humble pie coming on :thumbsup:

You're all missing the point..........it's not about colour it's about the singing style and the the conviction and emotion that shouts out through the lyrics.

Black or white the MVP's sang a pop song, unlike the groups like the Magnificent Men who sang soul with conviction and emotion.

If you don't get it, then maybe you never will....... :ohmy:

Edited by Wrongcrowd
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Soul-slider Veteran

Soul-slider

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You're all missing the point..........it's not about colour it's about the singing style and the the conviction and emotion that shouts out through the lyrics.

Black or white the MVP's sang a pop song, unlike the groups like the Magnificent Men who sang soul with conviction and emotion.

If you don't get it, then maybe you never will....... :thumbsup:

Definitely agree with you there! One of the best blue-eyed soul outfits of the 60's. Great group.

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Guest Beeks

Guest Beeks

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You're all missing the point..........it's not about colour it's about the singing style and the the conviction and emotion that shouts out through the lyrics.

Black or white the MVP's sang a pop song, unlike the groups like the Magnificent Men who sang soul with conviction and emotion.

If you don't get it, then maybe you never will....... :ohmy:

Ok joking aside...I agree...its not a soul record...and like ive mentioned previously its not my cup of tea...but I must admit its a belting dancer so who cares :thumbsup:

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Guest

Guest

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You're all missing the point..........it's not about colour it's about the singing style and the the conviction and emotion that shouts out through the lyrics.

Black or white the MVP's sang a pop song, unlike the groups like the Magnificent Men who sang soul with conviction and emotion.

If you don't get, then maybe you never will....... :ohmy:

Obviously you dont get it!!.........me i'm not bothered i like it pop stock and both barrels,but then i don't listen to this every day till i get sick of it and i go to places that probberly won't play it,same with all me records don't have a hot box just loads of boxes with new ones and old ones all mixed up and when asked to do a set i have to go through em' all again,i like lt like that none of my records ever feel neglected are are all very happy. :thumbsup:

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Soul-slider Veteran

Soul-slider

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Obviously you dont get it!!.........me i'm not bothered i like it pop stock and both barrels,but then i don't listen to this every day till i get sick of it and i go to places that probberly won't play it,same with all me records don't have a hot box just loads of boxes with new ones and old ones all mixed up and when asked to do a set i have to go through em' all again,i like lt like that none of my records ever feel neglected are are all very happy. :thumbsup:

Is that a straight jacket you're wearing in your pic Ken? :ohmy:

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Guest gordon russell

Guest gordon russell

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You're all missing the point..........it's not about colour it's about the singing style and the the conviction and emotion that shouts out through the lyrics.

Black or white the MVP's sang a pop song, unlike the groups like the Magnificent Men who sang soul with conviction and emotion.

If you don't get it, then maybe you never will....... :unsure:

Thank you very much mate.......spot on it ain't about colour at all. I just happened to think they were white,l was wrong about that fair enough....The thought that black folk don't sing pop is daft,have you heard "turning my heartbeat up " by the M.V.P'S LOL.The thought also that as long as they are black,whatever shite they sing makes it soul is bollox.........might be northern soul.....but not SOUL ATB tezza

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boba Veteran

boba

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https://www.soul-source.co.uk/redirec...nion_id%3D11620

Read it and then tell me they were a white pop/rock outfit!

Thanks to Tabs for finding this. Thought I'd start a new thread just in case a lot of the sceptics have abandoned the previous thread.

How do you know his dad was Black? OH SNAP, YOU GOT SERVED

Seriously, though, it was interesting to find out. Another good thread would be R&B / Rap artists who are related to soul people. For example, Otis Jackson's kid is Madlib, Fantasia Barrino is related to the Barrino Brothers, etc.

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Guest Beeks

Guest Beeks

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How do you know his dad was Black? OH SNAP, YOU GOT SERVED

Seriously, though, it was interesting to find out. Another good thread would be R&B / Rap artists who are related to soul people. For example, Otis Jackson's kid is Madlib, Fantasia Barrino is related to the Barrino Brothers, etc.

I got chatting to a guy on Myspace whos now a friend, who is the son of Milton Wright (Keep It Up) He's a rapper/reggae artist...nice guy...he forwarded my compliments to his dad who is still alive and kicking :unsure: He said his dad was made up some white kid in the UK loves his stuff hahaha

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Steve G Veteran

Steve G

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Thank you very much mate.......spot on it ain't about colour at all. I just happened to think they were white,l was wrong about that fair enough....The thought that black folk don't sing pop is daft,have you heard "turning my heartbeat up " by the M.V.P'S LOL.The thought also that as long as they are black,whatever shite they sing makes it soul is bollox.........might be northern soul.....but not SOUL ATB tezza

Too true - Kelly Garrett - black and as poppy as they come.

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Garethx Veteran

Garethx

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How do you know his dad was Black? OH SNAP, YOU GOT SERVED

Seriously, though, it was interesting to find out. Another good thread would be R&B / Rap artists who are related to soul people. For example, Otis Jackson's kid is Madlib, Fantasia Barrino is related to the Barrino Brothers, etc.

Lynn Vernado is the aunt of Snoop Dogg.

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Guest lifeandsoul

Guest lifeandsoul

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Posted (edited)

How do you know his dad was Black? OH SNAP, YOU GOT SERVED

Seriously, though, it was interesting to find out. Another good thread would be R&B / Rap artists who are related to soul people. For example, Otis Jackson's kid is Madlib, Fantasia Barrino is related to the Barrino Brothers, etc.

Chandlar - new york indie soul artist - his uncle kermit of the sheppards , Chandlar in the Union Jack top

454098.jpg

Edited by lifeandsoul
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Dave Pinch Veteran

Dave Pinch

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do you mean the mello souls as in Butch biggie? if so they are black.

its a great record chalks............ but it sounds pop and it sounds white

im sure not all black singers thought `i cant sound too black or i might not

get out of this town` they wanted to make money and sell some

records. Obvious point i know but colour not important to a great tune

it just seems better when its a big black fella with an afro rather than

a little white dude wi glasses :P

dave

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Chalky Veteran

Chalky

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its a great record chalks............ but it sounds pop and it sounds white

im sure not all black singers thought `i cant sound too black or i might not

get out of this town` they wanted to make money and sell some

records. Obvious point i know but colour not important to a great tune

it just seems better when its a big black fella with an afro rather than

a little white dude wi glasses :P

dave

doesn't sound pop or white to these cloth ears Dave, black as the ace of spades. Steve Green met the lead singer, Silus Phiper in care home. There's another 45 by them on Candi, Silus Phiper on one side, Edwin Johnson on lead the other. It's in refosoul somewhere as I've posted it in the past.

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Eddie Hubbard Veteran

Eddie Hubbard

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The Northern scene has always been about records that fitted the bill at the time , some being ultra soulful , many crass stompers , and some white artists that happened to sound right at the time .With the lyrical content and the fact that The M.V.P 's sounded different to a lot of other records at the time I can quite understand it's popularity , particularly as it's part of the sound track to " This England " , which would elevate this waxing to legendary status in many folks eyes .I wouldn't really care if I never heard it again , but with a lot of these records , they aren't just pieces of plastic , a lot of memories etc are tied up in them, and people can relate to them, rather like looking at an old photo , memories of a bygone era flood back .I don't think the black / white issue really comes into it , much of Gene McDaniels , Lenny Welch and even some of Ray Pollards sides veer close to M.O.R at times , as Cliff suggests , it's more a case of was it made as a Soul record [ Magnificent Men is a great example , they were obviously Soul fans .] It would be interesting to interview members of the group and find out what market they were aiming at .Best ,Eddie

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted (edited)

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/redirec...nion_id%3D11620

Read it and then tell me they were a white pop/rock outfit!

Thanks to Tabs for finding this. Thought I'd start a new thread just in case a lot of the sceptics have abandoned the previous thread.

Pleased this has come to light, as it just goes to show how much all the knockers know about the record.

Arranged and conducted by Horace Ott and made by a black R&B group in the early 70's!!!

Its not Jock Mitchell, but on the other hand its not a bad record, some people on here are far to fussy!

Edited by Guest
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Ian Dewhirst Veteran

Ian Dewhirst

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But wasn't DJ Toomp adopted into a white family? One of the few examples of cross-ethnic adoption in the early 1970's and part of the University of Atlanta 'Crossreach Adoption' programme?

I thought this was well publicised at the time as DJ Toomps adopted father was the lead vocalist of a relatively modest Atlanta white pop act called the MVP's...........

Ian D :lol:

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Sunnysoul Veteran

Sunnysoul

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But wasn't DJ Toomp adopted into a white family? One of the few examples of cross-ethnic adoption in the early 1970's and part of the University of Atlanta 'Crossreach Adoption' programme?

I thought this was well publicised at the time as DJ Toomps adopted father was the lead vocalist of a relatively modest Atlanta white pop act called the MVP's...........

Ian D :D

Well posted Ian !

People looked at the pic of DJ Toomp and just assumed his father had to be black : :lol:

... which can sometimes be a very dangerous assumption to make !

The vocalist on Turning My Heartbeat Up is clearly white !

Which is of course irrelevant, because no matter how one characterises the record - whether you think it is Pop Rock or Soul - Turning My Heartbeat Up is a fantastic piece of music !!!

It's an absolute credit to the Northern scene that this record is a classic.

Now, of much more interest to a trainspotter though are the credits on the record. The composers of Turning My Heartbeat Up were Bobby Flax and Lanny Lambert who along with producer Stan Vincent had various chart hits in the late 60's early 70's, notably with the Stairsteps.

The same writing and production team were behind another Northern Soul record that got some spins in the 70's, Willpower Weak Temptation Strong by the group called Bullett ... and I've always suspected that the vocalist on both the MVP's and Bullett were one and the same, probably a studio singer that the producer used behind various faceless groups.

Anyone ever thought the same thing ?

Edited by sunnysoul
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boba Veteran

boba

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Well posted Ian !

People looked at the pic of DJ Toomp and just assumed his father had to be black : :lol:

... which can sometimes be a very dangerous assumption to make !

The vocalist on Turning My Heartbeat Up is clearly white !

Which is of course irrelevant, because no matter how one characterises the record - whether you think it is Pop Rock or Soul - Turning My Heartbeat Up is a fantastic piece of music !!!

It's an absolute credit to the Northern scene that this record is a classic.

Now, of much more interest to a trainspotter though are the credits on the record. The composers of Turning My Heartbeat Up were Bobby Flax and Lanny Lambert who along with producer Stan Vincent had various chart hits in the late 60's early 70's, notably with the Stairsteps.

The same writing and production team were behind another Northern Soul record that got some spins in the 70's, Willpower Weak Temptation Strong by the group called Bullett ... and I've always suspected that the vocalist on both the MVP's and Bullett were one and the same, probably a studio singer that the producer used behind various faceless groups.

Anyone ever thought the same thing ?

I actually suggested the thing about his father (jokingly) first, before Ian's post. I would like to point out the following things:

1) the vocalist does sound white, but it's very difficult to tell 100% for anything and this isn't one of those 100% clear cut cases

2) even if his dad was black and was in the group, that doesn't mean that the lead singer was not white. Especially if they were more of a pop / garage type group, it is not totally unlikely that they were not a mixed group. The backup singers do sound sort of white to me too, but who knows.

3) he does not have to be adopted for his dad to be white, his biological father could be white.

Edited by boba
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Paul R Long Time

Paul R

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I actually suggested the thing about his father (jokingly) first, before Ian's post. I would like to point out the following things:

1) the vocalist does sound white, but it's very difficult to tell 100% for anything and this isn't one of those 100% clear cut cases

2) even if his dad was black and was in the group, that doesn't mean that the lead singer was not white. Especially if they were more of a pop / garage type group, it is not totally unlikely that they were not a mixed group. The backup singers do sound sort of white to me too, but who knows.

3) he does not have to be adopted for his dad to be white, his biological father could be white.

Can we get Jeremy Kyle to do some sort of DNA test to establish the facts so that once and for all we can find out if, as a soul fan, it is acceptable to dance to the MPVs.

We need to know.

Paul

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

But wasn't DJ Toomp adopted into a white family? One of the few examples of cross-ethnic adoption in the early 1970's and part of the University of Atlanta 'Crossreach Adoption' programme?

I thought this was well publicised at the time as DJ Toomps adopted father was the lead vocalist of a relatively modest Atlanta white pop act called the MVP's...........

Ian D :lol:

Bullshit!! Ian,with respect :P

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Soul-slider Veteran

Soul-slider

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I actually suggested the thing about his father (jokingly) first, before Ian's post. I would like to point out the following things:

1) the vocalist does sound white, but it's very difficult to tell 100% for anything and this isn't one of those 100% clear cut cases

2) even if his dad was black and was in the group, that doesn't mean that the lead singer was not white. Especially if they were more of a pop / garage type group, it is not totally unlikely that they were not a mixed group. The backup singers do sound sort of white to me too, but who knows.

3) he does not have to be adopted for his dad to be white, his biological father could be white.

But he claims his father WAS the LEAD SINGER!

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Guest Netspeaky

Guest Netspeaky

Posted
Posted

The Northern scene has always been about records that fitted the bill at the time , some being ultra soulful , many crass stompers , and some white artists that happened to sound right at the time .With the lyrical content and the fact that The M.V.P 's sounded different to a lot of other records at the time I can quite understand it's popularity , particularly as it's part of the sound track to " This England " , which would elevate this waxing to legendary status in many folks eyes .I wouldn't really care if I never heard it again , but with a lot of these records , they aren't just pieces of plastic , a lot of memories etc are tied up in them, and people can relate to them, rather like looking at an old photo , memories of a bygone era flood back .I don't think the black / white issue really comes into it , much of Gene McDaniels , Lenny Welch and even some of Ray Pollards sides veer close to M.O.R at times , as Cliff suggests , it's more a case of was it made as a Soul record [ Magnificent Men is a great example , they were obviously Soul fans .] It would be interesting to interview members of the group and find out what market they were aiming at .Best ,Eddie

Eddie I've spoken with David Bupp of the Mag Men, the were white soul guys who wanted to sound like the Temps, Impressions etc, simple as that.

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boba Veteran

boba

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But he claims his father WAS the LEAD SINGER!

OK, then that clarifies that point. Either way, I assume the group is probably black given he's black and his dad was in the group, I'm just saying that it's not a 100% certainty. Thanks.

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Sean Hampsey Veteran

Sean Hampsey

Posted
Posted (edited)

The same writing and production team were behind another Northern Soul record that got some spins in the 70's, Willpower Weak Temptation Strong by the group called Bullett ... and I've always suspected that the vocalist on both the MVP's and Bullett were one and the same, probably a studio singer that the producer used behind various faceless groups.

Anyone ever thought the same thing ?

I nearly posted that same little known fact (or rumour?) days (or was it weeks :lol: ) ago on this thread.

At the time the MVP's was played it was always speculated that these were the same crowd as Bullett - recorders of "Willpower Weak".

But now, as new evidence has come to light, I think the MVP's were most probably a trio of Spencer Wiggins, James Carr and Bobby Womack...

...plus that other blokes Dad on the banjo!

:D

Sean

Edited by Sean Hampsey
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Sunnysoul Veteran

Sunnysoul

Posted
Posted

I nearly posted that same little known fact (or rumour?) days (or was it weeks :D ) ago on this thread.

At the time the MVP's was played it was always speculated that these were the same crowd as Bullett - recorders of "Willpower Weak".

But now, as new evidence has come to light, I think the MVP's were most probably a trio of Spencer Wiggins, James Carr and Bobby Womack...

...plus that other blokes Dad on the banjo!

rolleyes.gif

Sean

Another great blue eyed soul dancer by the same writing and production team is "Alive and Well" by a group called Spare Change on the Vanguard label.

Not sure if it ever got any spins on the Northern Scene. Has all the ingredients.

Anyone ?

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Ian Dewhirst Veteran

Ian Dewhirst

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Posted

Another great blue eyed soul dancer by the same writing and production team is "Alive and Well" by a group called Spare Change on the Vanguard label.

Not sure if it ever got any spins on the Northern Scene. Has all the ingredients.

Anyone ?

Nope, never heard of it. :thumbup:

However, it will only hit legendary status if the necessary ingredients are present. These are:-

1) Lead vocalist must sound obviously 'white' no matter what enthic group he comes from.

2) There must be a white production team with a good pop sensibility behind them.

3) The song title must contain a verifield cliche e.g. "Turning My Heartbeat Up", "Willpower Weak, Temptation Strong", "Happiness In My Heart", "More Today Then Yesterday", "Daylight Saving Time" etc, etc.

4) It really helps if the lead singer has adopted an American-African son who would like to be an aspiring rapper.

Ian D :lol:

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