The Northern Scene

[SteveM]

Yes, it sent people scurrying away like rats from a sinking ship never to return (until 20 years later)

Not so long ago Pete, people used to say it was the pop crap (late 70's )that made them give it all up. Now its modern instead. Just the usual re writing of history by a few, to suit the argument. Why didn't these people all go in 75/76 when there were loads of new releases being played ?

[Guest]

Here's one!

https://www.soul-essence.co.uk/

There are others!

Sean

Dont even mention this one!!... I had an enormous row with someone about going to that one.. we never got there. I sulked for AGES.

it's bloody miles away and I was told it was more crossover / 70's but I'll put it on the list to try..

Thanks

Jayne.x.

p.s. - where is pemberton???..

[Pete S]

Not so long ago Pete, people used to say it was the pop crap (late 70's )that made them give it all up. Now its modern instead. Just the usual re writing of history by a few, to suit the argument. Why didn't these people all go in 75/76 when there were loads of new releases being played ?

Because, to repeat myself for the 100th time, the majority of the 74 to 76 sounds were still uptempo tracks with a 4/4 beat and not plodding shuffling shit like Larry Houston, that's why.

The huge influx of British pop Northern in 78 didn't help, and yes of course people left, but the 60's newies of 79 to 81 compensated for those.

No, it was modern that ruined the scene for good.

[Guest]

The last On The Soul Side at Bournemouth Uni [ Dave Morris Do ] would have been right up your street 60s to the presant day.

Damn - we need more of this in the NW.. anyone with anymore please pm me..

I'm going a bit off thread I think..

Jayne.x

[Peter99]

Yes, it sent people scurrying away like rats from a sinking ship never to return (until 20 years later)

People were already scurrying away Pete - the scene was tired.

Modern stuff kept me - and lots of mates interested and motivated.

[sister dawn]

Not read all the thread cos I'm a lazy so and so!

I'm not going to get into a heated poncy debate on this but.....................

Northern without "modern" - no way hosay!

Modern revitalised this beloved scene of ours from circa 1979 onwards. I like all soul music - 60's, 70's, 80's etc to now. Diversity is good.

Tra la la la la.

Ironside

IF DIVERSITY IS THE MUSIC OF LOVE THEN PLAY ON BRO ...PLAY ON X

[SteveM]

Because, to repeat myself for the 100th time, the majority of the 74 to 76 sounds were still uptempo tracks with a 4/4 beat and not plodding shuffling shit like Larry Houston, that's why.

The huge influx of British pop Northern in 78 didn't help, and yes of course people left, but the 60's newies of 79 to 81 compensated for those.

No, it was modern that ruined the scene for good.

I know your view and fully accept it. But the thread is about MODERN. Not style of music. If the die hard 60's fans were as incensed as some of them now reckon they were in the in the early eighties, why didn't the criteria apply earlier? You are the only one who mentions the 4/4 beat Pete. Virutally everybody else says 70's/ modern.

[SteveM]

I know your view and fully accept it. But the thread is about MODERN. Not style of music. If the die hard 60's fans were as incensed as some of them now reckon they were in the in the early eighties, why didn't the criteria apply earlier? You are the only one who mentions the 4/4 beat Pete. Virutally everybody else says 70's/ modern.

[Peter99]

Because, to repeat myself for the 100th time, the majority of the 74 to 76 sounds were still uptempo tracks with a 4/4 beat and not plodding shuffling shit like Larry Houston, that's why.

The huge influx of British pop Northern in 78 didn't help, and yes of course people left, but the 60's newies of 79 to 81 compensated for those.

No, it was modern that ruined the scene for good.

There's a fair few who like "plodding, shuffling shit like Larry Houston Pete - myself included.

A decent record is a decent record - no matter when it was released. As I know you agree - there was loads of hundred mile an hour sixties fookin shite, pop shite, and of course the overplayed shite.

Modern may have ruined it for you personally Pete - I accept that. But it didn't ruin the scene for good per se.

[Peter99]

IF DIVERSITY IS THE MUSIC OF LOVE THEN PLAY ON BRO ...PLAY ON X

Didn't quite get that Dawn.

Peter

x

[Peter99]

Didn't quite get that Dawn.

Peter

x

OOps - didn't see the bit at the bottom!

[Pete S]

There's a fair few who like "plodding, shuffling shit like Larry Houston Pete - myself included.

Is that meant to be a good thing?

[Peter99]

Is that meant to be a good thing?

Just making the point that you may think it's shite - but loads of others disagree.

I can see a Smithy Record Smash up coming on!

[sister dawn]

OOps - didn't see the bit at the bottom!

thats what happens Peter when you dont read things all the way through ....

[Pete S]

You are the only one who mentions the 4/4 beat Pete. Virutally everybody else says 70's/ modern.

Just calling it as I remember it - those new 70's releases were uptempo, driving-beat, dance records. Many were as good as 60's releases.

[Guest Beeks]

there was loads of hundred mile an hour sixties fookin shite, pop shite, and of course the overplayed shite.

I hate the hundred mile an hour stuff...might as well just be a dance record...like the techno of its time...think that stuff is a little too far removed from the tree of Soul music for my liking...besides...whats wrong with shuffling...what you expecting folks...hands in the air and gurning with your Keep the Faith/Acid Smiley t-shirts

[Pete S]

Just making the point that you may think it's shite - but loads of others disagree.

I can see a Smithy Record Smash up coming on!

Yeah so can I

[Peter99]

Yeah so can I

Mr Reliable as ever.

[Guest]

I hate the hundred mile an hour stuff...might as well just be a dance record...like the techno of its time...think that stuff is a little too far removed from the tree of Soul music for my liking...besides...whats wrong with shuffling...what you expecting folks...hands in the air and gurning with your Keep the Faith/Acid Smiley t-shirts

..tempo alone can't be the deciding factor in whether something is a good record surely?....

Jayne.x

Edited July 24, 2008 by Miss BurySoul

[sister dawn]

I hate the hundred mile an hour stuff...might as well just be a dance record...like the techno of its time...think that stuff is a little too far removed from the tree of Soul music for my liking...besides...whats wrong with shuffling...what you expecting folks...hands in the air and gurning with your Keep the Faith/Acid Smiley t-shirts

Careful Beeks ... dance styles should be just like the music... diverse ... each with their own moves wether it be full on 100 per mile hour full floorwork .... or the plodding, shuffling groove finding sort ....

[Pete S]

whats wrong with shuffling

There's too many different enterpretations of the word shuffling to explain here.

[Guest rachel]

Thank god I'm going on holiday

[Guest Beeks]

..tempo alone can't be the deciding factor in whether something is a good record surely?....

Jayne.x

Im not saying it is...just not my cup of tea... *shuffle shuffle*

[Peter99]

There's too many different enterpretations of the word shuffling to explain here.

There's five knuckle shuffling Pete - would that count?

[Peter99]

Thank god I'm going on holiday

Where you off to Rachel?

Anywhere nice?

[Guest Beeks]

There's too many different enterpretations of the word shuffling to explain here.

HAHAHAHAHA!!! Classic Pete...Funniest thing you've said since I joined...Im starting to warm to you

[sister dawn]

There's five knuckle shuffling Pete - would that count?

[Guest rachel]

Where you off to Rachel?

Anywhere nice?

Assorted places in Europe for a fortnight.. I bet this topic's still going when I get back!

On topic.. yes I think there could have been a Modern Soul scene without the Northern Soul scene.. BUT there couldn't have been Modern Soul music without 60s soul music...

[pikeys dog]

how very philosophical.

[Guest Beeks]

On topic.. yes I think there could have been a Modern Soul scene without the Northern Soul scene.. BUT there couldn't have been Modern Soul music without 60s soul music...

yeah but you can trace it all back if you want to be pedantic...wouldnt be 60s soul without R&B...wouldn't be R&B without Gospel etc etc

[Guest Byrney]

Yes, it sent people scurrying away like rats from a sinking ship never to return (until 20 years later)

Or perhaps when they returned 20 years later they used that as an excuse for their leaving? The ones I know who left went after having their initial few years on the scene then volleyed it because they got bored and wanted to move on (although not one of em would admit that ).

As long as I've been on the scene Modern has featured on nighter playlists (beside Guy's Soultown events) and recruited many to the scene in the 80s.

Edited July 24, 2008 by Byrney

[Guest rachel]

yeah but you can trace it all back if you want to be pedantic...wouldnt be 60s soul without R&B...wouldn't be R&B without Gospel etc etc

True, I just thought I should post something on topic really and it was all I could think of

[Guest Byrney]

People were already scurrying away Pete - the scene was tired.

Modern stuff kept me - and lots of mates interested and motivated.

[Peter99]

Assorted places in Europe for a fortnight.. I bet this topic's still going when I get back!

On topic.. yes I think there could have been a Modern Soul scene without the Northern Soul scene.. BUT there couldn't have been Modern Soul music without 60s soul music...

Yep - it could run for months this one!

A very thoughtful answer.

[Pete S]

Or perhaps when they returned 20 years later they used that as an excuse for their leaving? The ones I know who left went after having their initial few years on the scene then volleyed it because they got bored and wanted to move on (although not one of em would admit that ).

As long as I've been on the scene Modern has featured on nighter playlists (beside Guy's Soultown events) and recruited many to the scene in the 80s.

Well you can keep saying this but I'm telling you that just as many left because of it as were converted by it.

[Garethx]

Yes, the scene has changed. That's unavoidable. I think as adults we have a different perspective on things compared to when we all started. It's far easier to be jaded at the age of, say, fifty than when you are eighteen. I couldn't contemplate going to as many events today as I once did. Playlists don't change as rapidly as they once did, for a start. Hearing genuinely fresh sounds on a weekly basis and trying to buy some of them has become a virtual impossibility for the majority.

Also as adults we demand more direct involvement in the way the scene is run than we once did. If an event had been a complete shambles thirty years ago we pretty much had to put up with it. With forums like this we can now express an opinion directly to those responsible.

There are many more djs than there once were. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is debatable and this is probably not the topic in which to do so.

The music will always evolve, sometimes in strange (and personally unwelcome) ways, but the fundamental respect in which the scene has changed is the average age of the people involved. What started as a youth scene has endured in a way in which few might have imagined in their younger days.

When Wigan closed the people who emerged to take the scene forward were still pretty young: the movers and shakers were still predominantly in their twenties. By and large those people are still involved to some extent, but the outlook and energy levels can never be the same as in the halcyon days. While still fanatical about the music and the scene people now have other priorities: families, careers, debt and personal crises the like of which couldn't be imagined when we were all young.

I suppose we're part of the first generation which doesn't have identical aspirations to those of our parents. By my age (i'm 41) my dad had long forgotten the idea of doing the same things and having the same life he had when he was a teenager (i don't even know if that term had been coined when he was under 20 years of age). Society in general has changed radically in that respect and the soul scene merely reflects that change.

The incredible atmosphere of a dusty ballroom filled with adrenaline-crazed teenagers dancing for eight hours non-stop to obscure soul music will never be replicated. Everyone's older, some are wiser and that's the main difference.

The major reason the scene has endured is that it's very difficult to let go of those incredible memories. In a previous generation we would have been forced to, but it seems that society is telling us that we can now have a kind of perpetual youth: people in their sixties are by no means thought of as old today; with the pensions time-bomb we'll probably all be in our late eighties by the time we're considered 'old' enough to retire, join the bowls club, potter about in the garden etc.

It's changed and will never be what it was in 1973, but all things considered it isn't that bad a place to be.

[SteveM]

Well you can keep saying this but I'm telling you that just as many left because of it as were converted by it.

So the numbers err, stayed the same ?

[Guest Beeks]

There are many more djs than there once were. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is debatable and this is probably not the topic in which to do so.

This is the same in general now, noone wants to be a rock star anymore...they want to be a DJ, when I got my first pair of belt driven turntables at 16 there was hardly anyone who was into DJing...now everyone wants to be a DJ so much so that im embarrassed to confess I DJ to anyone new in my life for fear they will think im another Judge Jules wannabe....

It's changed and will never be what it was in 1973, but all things considered it isn't that bad a place to be.

1973 was a good year...when I came kicking and screaming into this world

[Guest]

yeah but you can trace it all back if you want to be pedantic...wouldnt be 60s soul without R&B...wouldn't be R&B without Gospel etc etc

Even back as far as the link with R&B and C&W (blues)

[SteveM]

Even back as far as the link with R&B and C&W (blues)

Well when I used to go to the Cotton Club there was no etc etc etc etc ........................................continued page 94.

[Garethx]

To answer Barry's question the timeframe in which modern soul was genuinely integrated in to the mainstream Northern scene was a relatively small period in the scene's overall history.

Great modern soul music is still being made in very small quantities, but the idea of the scene's pre-eminent deejays making it genuinely integral to their sets in the way Searling, Poke etc. did in their heyday are long gone and will never, ever return. The numbers of people driven away by those sounds were probably not compensated by those who made the opposite journey: from mainstream modern soul to rare Northern soul.

As I hinted at above people's tastes and outlook are probably more entrenched than they were twenty and thirty years ago, which is inevitable given the average age of those who participate.

There is a small scene dedicated entirely to purely modern soul music. It seems to run along alright so I don't know why it would need to once again join up with the mainstream of the Northern soul scene in the main rooms at the big weekenders or allnighters.

[Simon M]

Well you can keep saying this but I'm telling you that just as many left because of it as were converted by it.

Who left for that reason , and why didn't they come running back for Gary , Keb ,Guy and Withers ?

[Pete S]

Who left for that reason , and why didn't they come running back for Gary , Keb ,Guy and Withers ?

Well me for one, and I didn't come back cos I was scared of hearing Rosey Jones.

[Simon M]

Well me for one, and I didn't come back cos I was scared of hearing Rosey Jones.

Surely you stuck it out till Russ played Frank Wilson for the 15th time in a row ?

[Winnie :-)]

yeah but you can trace it all back if you want to be pedantic...wouldnt be 60s soul without R&B...wouldn't be R&B without Gospel etc etc

===========

Definite genesis theme going on there (hope that's the right biblical reference)

And gospel begat.......

and R&B begat.........

Pete can be Moses, Herod's yet to be decided

Beeks you can be the new testament

[Guest Modern Skip Tone]

Just calling it as I remember it - those new 70's releases were uptempo, driving-beat, dance records. Many were as good as 60's releases.

Yes and many artists sung and played a part in those sixties recordings, were still involved in the seventies and eighties recordings. If some of them were still around today and reading this - what would they think . Was it or has it come to this, white folks terming/classing our music !!!!!! I value them far greater than these pages of continues political stalemate. Pondie boys all over again and again.

Thank god I have other interests outside of this - .

[Epic]

Well me for one, and I didn't come back cos I was scared of hearing Rosey Jones.

Strange isn't it - two different tunes called "Have Love Will Travel" & they both stir up different & the same emotions.

Now then when is my car insurance due?

[Dave]

I know your view and fully accept it. But the thread is about MODERN. Not style of music. If the die hard 60's fans were as incensed as some of them now reckon they were in the in the early eighties, why didn't the criteria apply earlier? You are the only one who mentions the 4/4 beat Pete. Virutally everybody else says 70's/ modern.

Just calling it as I remember it - those new 70's releases were uptempo, driving-beat, dance records. Many were as good as 60's releases.

Steve, what Pete says is valid. The new releases played at Cleethorpes in the mid 70s fitted in alongside the 60s music. It was with the late 70s and 80s releases that the change came about... and that change was in tempo. The watered down, mid-tempo stuff is what gets overplayed at so called ATB nights now, because it's easy for the obese or over-fortified "soulie" to shuffle along to, and that's one reason why some have moved towards 60s events.

Incidentally, it's interesting to see some enlightened folks calling for "truely across the board" music policies, encompassing the five decades of soul music, etc etc, as long as there's no shite R&B played... kinda negates the whole noble ideaology, surely?

Edited July 24, 2008 by Dave

[Dave]

Yes and many artists sung and played a part in those sixties recordings, were still involved in the seventies and eighties recordings. If some of them were still around today and reading this - what would they think . Was it or has it come to this, white folks terming/classing our music !!!!!! I value them far greater than these pages of continues political stalemate. Pondie boys all over again and again.

Thank god I have other interests outside of this - .

Well if you consider this thread is akin to blasphemy, why contribute then?

(I use the word "contribute" loosely.)

[Epic]

The biggest problem with an "across the board" policy is finding an "across the board" audience.

Remember when The Ritz All Dayers in the seventies mixed Northern with Jazz Funk - very few records actually pleased both camps - the different "tribes" would swap dancefloor for sitting at tables depending which genre was being played.