The Northern Scene

[Maark]

I think the club scene in London has evolved a little differently (I'm just a wee whippersnapper at 38 so I only know what I'm told by the bigger boys) and it's roots are less embedded in the 60's stuff than maybe other parts of the country.

I love it all so why am I getting involved in a bloody 60's v modern thread - it's my first by the way .

I think you have a point in your earlier post Goldwax. I have mates same age as you and were (and still are) well into that "southern soul scene" which for them began in the 80's. They have no real interest in the Northern 60's scene, apart from cursory curiosity and chose to go to their club nights in London and Essex. I went to one of their nights and it did nothing for me. In fact I would rather go to a rave to be honest! But as I had my formative years growing up in the 60's and 70's like many people on this site, it may stand to reason that we are more embedded with the feel for the style of sound from those decades. (well early 70's anyway).

[SteveM]

Freebasing is so last month Steve. Soul music is the new politics. I suppose those 60's only types are the Labour party - always looking to over govern things and regulate people's lives. Modern'ers are Tories of course - new thinking entrepreneurial types with little respect for the past or the majority of people interests.

[Guest Goldwax]

Very well put, but I'm sure we passed that point over 20 years ago, Win.

The mid 80's 'Northern Scene' spawned scores of dreadful records that seemed to be played purely because they were rare 60's (and because they acted as a minor backlash to the more modern tunes that were hugely popular at the time).

The Northern scene was progressing nicely in the early 80's (post Wigan) not least because we saw the extinction of Pop music on playlists but because we were able to play and enjoy 'current' Soul music, without some of the nonsense that, perversely, still prevails today.

Somewhere down the line, it seems, reactionaries and revisionists tried to claim back the scene as a 'retro' or exclusively 60's scene which of course was absolute nonsense - the roots of 'Mod' and Northern Soul are steeped in progressiveness and the promotion of 'current' music, along with the discovery and promotion of unplayed or forgotten 'earlier' records.

That mid 80's - '60's only' - backlash to the outbreak of a more Soulful, varied and open approach has left its unfortunate mark on the scene even to this day in creating unfortunate and unecessary splits and divisions.

So I would dispute any claims that the Northern scene is exclusively a 60's scene. In the 60's it played exclusively 60's, of course, but as decades progressed and newer Soul records were found these would obviously find favour amongst Soul fans - and should therefore be part of the playlist.

I blame Mr M's. Until that came along there was no 'retro bias' and the main rooms in Northern venues were distinctly progressive. As I see it, progression is the true 'Northern Scene' and '60's only' retro belongs in some offshoot backroom... if at all!

Sean

Well put Sean. A true Modernists ethos indeed - always looking forward, never back (well OK, sometimes).

It sounds like you've been around a while mate and I must say, when looking back through the UK soul scene history files, I'm a little disappointed that a further division has never evolved with a Southern only scene to further divide us. Oh for a night of 'below the line' down home growlers .

[Guest]

Just thinking is there a policy for the djs ie when they play is it only a 60,s set or 70,s set northern or modern set or as I would like to think a mix (obviously this dosent apply to for e.g 60,s only night ) what I mean is would a DJ play Special Delivery living on the run *1981* tune followed with four thoughts kisses and roses *60,s* For me when im out I just want to dance and enjoy great soul music be it 60,s 70,s 80,s etc if im honest i couldnt tell sometimes if a record was 60,s or 70,s . I dont think theres any argument that a great SOUL record is a great SOUL record not matter the era

Soulfully Kieran

[Guest Goldwax]

I think you have a point in your earlier post Goldwax. I have mates same age as you and were (and still are) well into that "southern soul scene" which for them began in the 80's. They have no real interest in the Northern 60's scene, apart from cursory curiosity and chose to go to their club nights in London and Essex. I went to one of their nights and it did nothing for me. In fact I would rather go to a rave to be honest! But as I had my formative years growing up in the 60's and 70's like many people on this site, it may stand to reason that we are more embedded with the feel for the style of sound from those decades. (well early 70's anyway).

Very true Maark. There are generational as well as geographical differences.

[Sean Hampsey]

an effort to maintain 6Ts bias is on the increase.

Win:-)

Shame that Win.

Who are the propagators of such madness?

An open 'across the board' type policy is by far the best way of ensuring longevity.

An insular, exclusively backward looking scene is destined for extinction.

How long will the scene be able to continuously 'discover' new 60's in the volume and quantity required?

How many really good 60's tunes have been discovered in the past 12 months?

Very few.

The only way to keep it going on that narrow causeway is by playing forgotten oldies....

...but then the 'rare' only crowd wouldn't really favour that either because most forgotten oldies... just aren't rare!

It's madness.

It's the flipside of the same coin where a DJ on the Modern scene might only play a track 'because it's Modern'.

Quality is what matters regardless of when a record was made.

But the vast majority of us (and I would venture to say, the vast majority on SS too) have known that for years!

Sean

[Guest]

Just thinking is there a policy for the djs ie when they play is it only a 60,s set or 70,s set northern or modern set or as I would like to think a mix (obviously this dosent apply to for e.g 60,s only night ) what I mean is would a DJ play Special Delivery living on the run *1981* tune followed with four thoughts kisses and roses *60,s* For me when im out I just want to dance and enjoy great soul music be it 60,s 70,s 80,s etc if im honest i couldnt tell sometimes if a record was 60,s or 70,s . I dont think theres any argument that a great SOUL record is a great SOUL record not matter the era

Soulfully Kieran

Dont know about those particular tracks but generally yes, isn't that playing 'across the board' which I prefer but that term seems to get slagged on here..

Unless I've mis-understood you..

Best spots for me are a few 60's, 70's, modern and a bit of motown... You tend to only get that kinda thinking at soul nites round here rather than niters.

Jayne.x.

[Guest Beeks]

Shame that Win.

Who are the propagators of such madness?

An open 'across the board' type policy is by far the best way of ensuring longevity.

An insular, exclusively backward looking scene is destined for extinction.

How long will the scene be able to continuously 'discover' new 60's in the volume and quantity required?

How many really good 60's tunes have been discovered in the past 12 months?

Very few.

The only way to keep it going on that narrow causeway is by playing forgotten oldies....

...but then the 'rare' only crowd wouldn't really favour that either because most forgotten oldies... just aren't rare!

It's madness.

It's the flipside of the same coin where a DJ on the Modern scene might only play a track 'because it's Modern'.

Quality is what matters regardless of when a record was made.

But the vast majority of us (and I would venture to say, the vast majority on SS too) have known that for years!

Sean

Couldn't agree more Sean

[Guest]

Freebasing is so last month Steve. Soul music is the new politics. I suppose those 60's only types are the Labour party - always looking to over govern things and regulate people's lives. Modern'ers are Tories of course - new thinking entrepreneurial types with little respect for the past or the majority of people interests.

LOL... I hate you for making me a tory!!..

Jayne.x.

Edited July 24, 2008 by Miss BurySoul

[Guest]

Shame that Win.

Who are the propagators of such madness?

An open 'across the board' type policy is by far the best way of ensuring longevity.

An insular, exclusively backward looking scene is destined for extinction.

How long will the scene be able to continuously 'discover' new 60's in the volume and quantity required?

How many really good 60's tunes have been discovered in the past 12 months?

Very few.

The only way to keep it going on that narrow causeway is by playing forgotten oldies....

...but then the 'rare' only crowd wouldn't really favour that either because most forgotten oldies... just aren't rare!

It's madness.

It's the flipside of the same coin where a DJ on the Modern scene might only play a track 'because it's Modern'.

Quality is what matters regardless of when a record was made.

But the vast majority of us (and I would venture to say, the vast majority on SS too) have known that for years!

Sean

Totally agree

[Pete S]

An insular, exclusively backward looking scene is destined for extinction.

Over 40 years so far and still going strong...

[Guest Goldwax]

LOL... I hate you for making me a tory!!..

Jayne.x.

Sorry about that Jayne. I could make you a Liberal if you like your Crossover

[SteveM]

Over 40 years so far and still going strong...

With seventies/"modern" being/having been played at the majority of venues for most of that time.

[Pete S]

With seventies/"modern" being/having been played at the majority of venues for most of that time.

[Guest Beeks]

Over 40 years so far and still going strong...

And when you're gone Pete? You going to leave the legacy? Or take it to your grave kicking and screaming? My guess is the latter

Lets face it...this scene is going to mutate and evolve whether the old brigade like it or not...though funnily enough...its the older stuff I prefer anyway...though I feel the generation behind me will not be so forgiving.

[Guest Goldwax]

Over 40 years so far and still going strong...

Depends on your definition of 'strong' Pete. I would argue that the lack of young faces at the events I attend would suggest otherwise. Although the number of events listed on this site would seem to support your statement somewhat.

[Sean Hampsey]

Well put Sean. A true Modernists ethos indeed - always looking forward, never back (well OK, sometimes).

It sounds like you've been around a while mate and I must say, when looking back through the UK soul scene history files, I'm a little disappointed that a further division has never evolved with a Southern only scene to further divide us. Oh for a night of 'below the line' down home growlers .

I got into Soul Music in the late 60's Craig.

Came in through the Stax door.

Was a few years before I'd even heard the phrase 'Northern Soul' and was often disgusted even back then (very early 70's) at what was played and 'passed off' as Soul Music - although at that time, the greater majority was either good or excellent.

Much later, the Wigan era brought with it a whole host of nonsense. It was'nt a particularly attractive chapter in our history (IMO). Why some seem to want to hang onto that particular snapshot period of our 40 year history and all its infantile trappings is beyond me. Wigan was only a poor pastiche of what a real appreciation of Soul Music was and is about. It was popularised by the media, invaded by Bay City Rollers fans and the Soul fans left in droves.

But I was one of the ones who stayed!

I say that Soul Fans should reclaim our ground - To hell with 'Era Facism' - Give me Real Soul music... regardless of when it was made... and give it to me now!

Sean

[Pete S]

And when you're gone Pete? You going to leave the legacy? Or take it to your grave kicking and screaming? My guess is the latter

Lets face it...this scene is going to mutate and evolve whether the old brigade like it or not...though funnily enough...its the older stuff I prefer anyway...though I feel the generation behind me will not be so forgiving.

You should have been at stoke on saturday, you'd be very worried. It's an old persons scene alright. I think if the scene ever does mutate, it'll be without us oldies and our 60's but become more of a free for all anything goes kind of thing based on enjoying yourself rather than record trainspotting.

[Sean Hampsey]

I think if the scene ever does mutate, it'll be without us oldies and our 60's but become more of a free for all anything goes kind of thing based on enjoying yourself rather than record trainspotting.

Praise the lord!

Sean

[Ian Seaman]

You should have been at stoke on saturday, you'd be very worried. It's an old persons scene alright. I think if the scene ever does mutate, it'll be without us oldies and our 60's but become more of a free for all anything goes kind of thing based on enjoying yourself rather than record trainspotting.

YOU was at Stoke sat night Pete ???? blimey charlie , how did you get a leave pass

Ian.

[Mark R]

Last night I listened to:

Robin Thicke - Magic

Doug Banks - Kept On Dancing

Both sounding sooooo good to these ears!! Wake me up before ya go-go........

Cheers,

Mark R

[Guest]

Sorry about that Jayne. I could make you a Liberal if you like your Crossover

LOL... Hell NO!..well not much.. I get a bit bored with some of it.. it's fine... leave me in the blue camp...

Jayne.x

[Guest Beeks]

based on enjoying yourself rather than record trainspotting.

Was this not what even you oldies first got into the music for? Having a good time??

Think you have all lost your way a little...forgotten how to let your hair down and not take things too seriously....

More Fun less Severity thats what I say!!

[Guest Goldwax]

I got into Soul Music in the late 60's Craig.

Came in through the Stax door.

Was a few years before I'd even heard the phrase 'Northern Soul' and was often disgusted even back then (very early 70's) at what was played and 'passed off' as Soul Music - although at that time, the greater majority was either good or excellent.

Much later, the Wigan era brought with it a whole host of nonsense. It was'nt a particularly attractive chapter in our history (IMO). Why some seem to want to hang onto that particular snapshot period of our 40 year history and all its infantile trappings is beyond me. Wigan was only a poor pastiche of what a real appreciation of Soul Music was and is about. It was popularised by the media, invaded by Bay City Rollers fans and the Soul fans left in droves.

But I was one of the ones who stayed!

I say that Soul Fans should reclaim our ground - To hell with 'Era Facism' - Give me Real Soul music... regardless of when it was made... and give it to me now!

Sean

Real Soul music for all indeed!

It does seem there are those whose affections for a time and a place seem stronger than their love for the music. I suppose it's the same as the people I work with, listening to 80's pop shite cos of the youthful memories it stirs. Sad really.

[Guest]

And when you're gone Pete? You going to leave the legacy? Or take it to your grave kicking and screaming? My guess is the latter

Lets face it...this scene is going to mutate and evolve whether the old brigade like it or not...though funnily enough...its the older stuff I prefer anyway...though I feel the generation behind me will not be so forgiving.

I'm not sure it will... We dont have the venue's or the 'next generation' of progressive DJ's that they had in the 70's. Well, not enough of them.

There aren't enough people to support it. Imaging having an 'under 40's' soul night....it'd be dead!..

Jayne.x.

[Simon M]

I say that Soul Fans should reclaim our ground - To hell with 'Era Facism' - Give me Real Soul music... regardless of when it was made... and give it to me now!

Sean

[Mark R]

It does seem there are those whose affections for a time and a place seem stronger than their love for the music. I suppose it's the same as the people I work with, listening to 80's pop shite cos of the youthful memories it stirs. Sad really.

Bang on!!............but to take it further, it's not that there's owt wrong stilll digging the old stuff (or the 80's pop shite )!!!

I just can't personally imagine not liking the best of it all. Unthinkable.......the great music I would have missed.

"Northern" Soul is a scene, a lifestyle, and the soul part is a minor concern for a good many I think. That's fine, but those people shouldn't presume to tell me what soul music is!!

Cheers,

Mark R

[Guest]

Was this not what even you oldies first got into the music for? Having a good time??

Think you have all lost your way a little...forgotten how to let your hair down and not take things too seriously....

More Fun less Severity thats what I say!!

Might depend how you define having a good time..

I've heard stories from those who started going to these places because they'd fallen in love with the music. They were there purely for the music, rather than

the atmosphere / night out / having a drink etc... well, that's my understanding of it..

You need to get down the wheel more!.

Jayne.x.

[SteveM]

[Guest Beeks]

Imaging having an 'under 40's' soul night....it'd be dead!..

Jayne.x.

Thats a massive concern Jayne...and it might be that to get the very young into the scene...initially anyway...compromises might have to be made to the variation of music being played at events...such as the whole mod crossover type nights...you know the kids love that...sad but true

[Guest]

Thats a massive concern Jayne...and it might be that to get the very young into the scene...initially anyway...compromises might have to be made to the variation of music being played at events...such as the whole mod crossover type nights...you know the kids love that...sad but true

think about more modern music.... there's the beat boutique thing happening and a few young DJ's playing 60's or students getting into the 60's music etc... but think about modern soul and DJ's to progress the scene into the future rather than get young people listening to 60's. The kinda thing that happened last time round..introducing stuff and progressing the scene like Searling, Curtis, N.Rushden, Pete Haigh, Sam and others etc were doing..(even Levine.... )

Sorry if that's not clear, rushing a bit.

Jayne.x

[Guest Beeks]

Its why I found that Kings Go Forth thread so interesting to be honest Jayne, I appreciate what they are doing, but just who are they trying to appeal to/get accepted by? Seems they are targeting the wrong audience if they are hoping for longetivity...it needs something fresh...capturing the spirit of the 60s while acknowledging we are in the 21st century

Suppose both artists and DJs alike need to start thinking outside of the box.

Edited July 24, 2008 by Beeks

[Steve G]

But I was one of the ones who stayed!

I say that Soul Fans should reclaim our ground - To hell with 'Era Facism' - Give me Real Soul music... regardless of when it was made... and give it to me now!

Sean

Hallelujah and well said Sean.

By the way I never understood "Mr M's" either - thought it was for the older guys who couldn't keep up with post "Twisted Wheel" developments on the soul scene and who were quite happy to spend the rest of their lives buzzing round to the "Good time tonight" and "Dust my broom". My moments in there were brief, thankfully. Now I understand it was just another way of getting another 250 through the doors of W*** C****.

[Tricky]

Have been on the scene since 1975.Never liked the term Northern Soul because i,m not from up north and it didn,t take me long to realise that after a while it was as much related to pop music and dodgy fashion as anything else.70,s or new releases were always played and accepted everywhere.Be it Wigan,Mecca.Cleethorpes or St ives.Now in my book if its soulful play it.I love a night with across the board music policies.Lifeline is a good current example of this.What does get my goat and to me it seems a copp out when most people on here are rightly championing the unplayed forgotten lesser played sides is this.R&B.Now i,m not talking about raw hard edged soul like Lil Grey,little jewel et all but this late 50,s early 60,s Rock and Roll.What the F****S that all about.Soul i think not!

[Guest]

it needs something fresh...capturing the spirit of the 60s while acknowledging we are in the 21st century

Suppose both artists and DJs alike need to start thinking outside of the box.

There are artists and a tiny minority of DJ's who do think outside the box this but there is hardly any crowd to appreciate it....

I remain open minded and hope to be proved wrong.

Jayne.x.

[Guest]

Have been on the scene since 1975.Never liked the term Northern Soul because i,m not from up north and it didn,t take me long to realise that after a while it was as much related to pop music and dodgy fashion as anything else.70,s or new releases were always played and accepted everywhere.Be it Wigan,Mecca.Cleethorpes or St ives.Now in my book if its soulful play it.I love a night with across the board music policies.Lifeline is a good current example of this.What does get my goat and to me it seems a copp out when most people on here are rightly championing the unplayed forgotten lesser played sides is this.R&B.Now i,m not talking about raw hard edged soul like Lil Grey,little jewel et all but this late 50,s early 60,s Rock and Roll.What the F****S that all about.Soul i think not!

Find me a night where you will hear a truely across the board policy... 60's through to current modern... I'd love it but I dont think the night exists anymore!..

Anyone who tries it ends up inundated with complaints about the music policy from all sides.

Anyone up for it?... Lets try a one roomer with 25% 60's, 70's, motown and modern and see what happens.. I agree with you Tricky so we'll limit the RnB sounds to 3mins during the 60's part of the night.

Jayne.x.

[Sean Hampsey]

Find me a night where you will hear a truely across the board policy... 60's through to current modern... I'd love it but I dont think the night exists anymore!..

Anyone who tries it ends up inundated with complaints about the music policy from all sides.

Anyone up for it?... Lets try a one roomer with 25% 60's, 70's, motown and modern and see what happens.. I agree with you Tricky so we'll limit the RnB sounds to 3mins during the 60's part of the night.

Jayne.x.

Here's one!

https://www.soul-essence.co.uk/

There are others!

Sean

[Sean Hampsey]

I say that Soul Fans should reclaim our ground - To hell with 'Era Facism' - Give me Real Soul music... regardless of when it was made... and give it to me now!

Sean

Your on form today Sean .. See you at the Qube Weekender

Looking forward to it Simon.

Reckon quite a few of the good folk on here would enjoy it immensely!

Sean

[Sean Hampsey]

Hallelujah and well said Sean.

By the way I never understood "Mr M's" either - thought it was for the older guys who couldn't keep up with post "Twisted Wheel" developments on the soul scene and who were quite happy to spend the rest of their lives buzzing round to the "Good time tonight" and "Dust my broom". My moments in there were brief, thankfully. Now I understand it was just another way of getting another 250 through the doors of W*** C****.

I remember a mate of mine suggesting they should have boarded up the room with everybody in it!

Bit extreme, but I saw his point!

Sean

[Guest pinkyperky]

Have been on the scene since 1975.Never liked the term Northern Soul because i,m not from up north and it didn,t take me long to realise that after a while it was as much related to pop music and dodgy fashion as anything else.70,s or new releases were always played and accepted everywhere.Be it Wigan,Mecca.Cleethorpes or St ives.Now in my book if its soulful play it.I love a night with across the board music policies.Lifeline is a good current example of this.What does get my goat and to me it seems a copp out when most people on here are rightly championing the unplayed forgotten lesser played sides is this.R&B.Now i,m not talking about raw hard edged soul like Lil Grey,little jewel et all but this late 50,s early 60,s Rock and Roll.What the F****S that all about.Soul i think not!

R&B and popcorn shite.....yeah went to one of those..I said don't bother laminating the membership card

Edited July 24, 2008 by pinkyperky

[Tricky]

Sean - Too right,my favourite weekender of the year!An absolute across the board music policy sent to a higher level with the afternoon deep soul sets in the back room.Awesome......

[Simon M]

Looking forward to it Simon.

Reckon quite a few of the good folk on here would enjoy it immensely!

Sean

Great lineup and I hear Robin Salter is allowed to come

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/Ems-Sum...rty-t76140.html

[Epic]

Find me a night where you will hear a truely across the board policy... 60's through to current modern... I'd love it but I dont think the night exists anymore!..

Anyone who tries it ends up inundated with complaints about the music policy from all sides.

Jayne.x.

Pete Haigh & myself have both attended & DJ'd many times at the Seaside Soul Club in Morecambe where they play everything from Jackie Wilson to Joi Cardwell all in one room.

Edited July 24, 2008 by epic

[Peter99]

Not read all the thread cos I'm a lazy so and so!

I'm not going to get into a heated poncy debate on this but.....................

Northern without "modern" - no way hosay!

Modern revitalised this beloved scene of ours from circa 1979 onwards. I like all soul music - 60's, 70's, 80's etc to now. Diversity is good.

Tra la la la la.

Ironside

[Reg]

Find me a night where you will hear a truely across the board policy... 60's through to current modern... I'd love it but I dont think the night exists anymore!..

Anyone who tries it ends up inundated with complaints about the music policy from all sides.

Anyone up for it?... Lets try a one roomer with 25% 60's, 70's, motown and modern and see what happens.. I agree with you Tricky so we'll limit the RnB sounds to 3mins during the 60's part of the night.

Jayne.x.

Broughton Wings

[tim smithers]

Find me a night where you will hear a truely across the board policy... 60's through to current modern... I'd love it but I dont think the night exists anymore!..

Anyone who tries it ends up inundated with complaints about the music policy from all sides.

Anyone up for it?... Lets try a one roomer with 25% 60's, 70's, motown and modern and see what happens.. I agree with you Tricky so we'll limit the RnB sounds to 3mins during the 60's part of the night.

Jayne.x.

The last On The Soul Side at Bournemouth Uni [ Dave Morris Do ] would have been right up your street 60s to the presant day.

[Maark]

Find me a night where you will hear a truely across the board policy... 60's through to current modern... I'd love it but I dont think the night exists anymore!..

Anyone who tries it ends up inundated with complaints about the music policy from all sides.

Anyone up for it?... Lets try a one roomer with 25% 60's, 70's, motown and modern and see what happens.. I agree with you Tricky so we'll limit the RnB sounds to 3mins during the 60's part of the night.

Jayne.x.

The night that springs to mind to me is the Pemberton where you get just about everything in one night and the crowd make up reflects that. Everyone seems to have a good time too!

[Pete S]

Hallelujah and well said Sean.

By the way I never understood "Mr M's" either - thought it was for the older guys who couldn't keep up with post "Twisted Wheel" developments on the soul scene and who were quite happy to spend the rest of their lives buzzing round to the "Good time tonight" and "Dust my broom". My moments in there were brief, thankfully. Now I understand it was just another way of getting another 250 through the doors of W*** C****.

Now this is an interesting point because my mate Tom went to Stoke saturday and he said to me, remember every saturday we used to go to Wigan, I always used to go in M's to dance and you always stayed in the big room learning - in other words moving with the times, getting to know the new spins and not relying on the oldies from the Torch Cats and Wheel. Because all he really wanted to do was get smashed and dance all night to his favourite records. I wanted to hear the new biggies. But anyway, I think thats why the majoroty of people went in M's, I don't think I went in more than a dozen times in 3 years.

[Pete S]

Modern revitalised this beloved scene of ours from circa 1979 onwards.

Yes, it sent people scurrying away like rats from a sinking ship never to return (until 20 years later)

[Guest]

Broughton Wings

it's bloody miles away but yes, good point.. they have a very cheap bar too and Brian Ellis is a star!..

nice one Reg!

Jayne.x.

Edited July 24, 2008 by Miss BurySoul