The Northern Scene

[Barry]

In a separate reality, take progressive dj's and their music policies out of the All-Nighter equation (Modern plays) as is - would nighters have been as appealing over any given period of time?

I know this type of question begs the response, 'Well, flip it - would Modern ever have gained a scene alone without a 60's scene to base itself upon?'

Begging a third question:

'Without Modern, would the 60's scene have eventually died without the impetus (new blood) that Modern brought to all nighters?

And could all this not possibly prove that at the end of the day they were made for each other?

Ying and Yang?

.....I'll go to bed.

[Spacehopper]

once again a thought provoking question barry !

my opinion...if i understand you right !

i think the 60s scene without modern would have gone through a natural low(when the original dancers got married etc) but just like the scooter scene would have had a revival....any dancefloor at any oldies night will show you for every "new discovery addict" like it or not there are two classic addicts !!

i reckon this scene has always had progressive djs which is why its so diverse whether it be at the mecca,stafford or middleton or the first djs to start playing modern or rnb

as for the modern scene alone...i dont know enough to comment ....but i dont think they were made for each other i think there are as many northern lovers whos second genre would be reggae before modern.....or maybe thats just my mates

[Pete S]

1 yes

2 no

3 no

[Pete S]

i think the 60s scene without modern would have gone through a natural low(when the original dancers got married etc)

It went through a massive low with modern included - 1981 to 1986 mainly

[Mach]

always hated modern....still do.theres loads of sixties stuff unknowns,semi knowns and even tunes that were played back in the day,that a lot of people have never heard today.How many brilliant sounds are they that only got limited airplay back then i.e a couple of weeks play never to be heard again or seen again..eg "too much,seb williams e.t.c...but each to their own suppose it would be boring if we all had the same taste ..

and dont think the scene would ave sank without modern,in my experience more people leave the dance floor than join it when a modern tune comes on....over to you.

[Spacehopper]

It went through a massive low with modern included - 1981 to 1986 mainly

yes mate....my post should have read with or without

[Guest Goldwax]

1 yes

2 no

3 no

No to number two Pete? London has had various scenes develop driven by Modern Soul (post 60's) music - I know plenty of footy casuals from the 80's for instance who attended Southport weekenders etc and have little to zero knowledge of any pre -seventies stuff.

All this 'there would be nothing without the 60's northern scene' is utter shite.

[Guest]

always hated modern....still do.theres loads of sixties stuff unknowns,semi knowns and even tunes that were played back in the day,that a lot of people have never heard today.How many brilliant sounds are they that only got limited airplay back then i.e a couple of weeks play never to be heard again or seen again..eg "too much,seb williams e.t.c...but each to their own suppose it would be boring if we all had the same taste ..

and dont think the scene would ave sank without modern,in my experience more people leave the dance floor than join it when a modern tune comes on....over to you.

Hated,bit strong in it !!

[Mach]

eerrr suppose so,lets just say "dislike" then ken. ....dont wish to rile anyone.. .just a personal veiw. .

[Guest]

In a separate reality, take progressive dj's and their music policies out of the All-Nighter equation (Modern plays) as is - would nighters have been as appealing over any given period of time?

I know this type of question begs the response, 'Well, flip it - would Modern ever have gained a scene alone without a 60's scene to base itself upon?'

Begging a third question:

'Without Modern, would the 60's scene have eventually died without the impetus (new blood) that Modern brought to all nighters?

And could all this not possibly prove that at the end of the day they were made for each other?

Ying and Yang?

.....I'll go to bed.

No

No

and Yes.

I dont go to half as many niters since their are less modern rooms around. I like a mixture of both but sadly more and more niters are choosing progressive 6t's for their 2nd room.

Jayne.x.

[pikeys dog]

I dont go to half as many niters since their are less modern rooms around. I like a mixture of both but sadly more and more niters are choosing progressive 6t's for their 2nd room.

Jayne.x.

I think that's because the Modern rooms tend to empty after 3am.

[Pete S]

All this 'there would be nothing without the 60's northern scene' is utter shite.

Ther Northern scene IS 60's music, what on earth are you talking about?

[Guest]

Ther Northern scene IS 60's music, what on earth are you talking about?

Not so !!

[Guest]

I think that's because the Modern rooms tend to empty after 3am.

I know, tis true. . And more and more modern fans want their own stand alone venues rather than being an 'after thought' in a small room at a mainly northern night.

We've switched to 6T's for the 2nd room at the Bury Niter in October for this very reason.

I guess it's why the DDA came about too. Personally I miss me modun though..

Jayne.x.

[Winnie :-)]

No

No

and Yes.

I dont go to half as many niters since their are less modern rooms around. I like a mixture of both but sadly more and more niters are choosing progressive 6t's for their 2nd room.

Jayne.x.

============

Modern is clearly the natural progression to the northern scene, as it was to an extent born out of it. At least with modern you can actually get to hear something brand new as opposed to a reactivation. Theoretically there's going to come a time when everything circa 6Ts has been re-spun, well decent stuff anyway, where does the scene go from there? I think we're approaching the time when we give credit to a track purely because it was made in the 6Ts, the fact that its actually inferior in quality to it's predecessors in regards to a ''dance scene'', often being overlooked.

Winnie :-)

[Pete S]

Not so !!

OK well take away the 60's music and see what you're left with.

[Guest]

OK well take away the 60's music and see what you're left with.

Spread love

praying

don't wanna' be a fool

etc etc etc etc etc etc even some of them 6Ts oldie's are 7Ts really.

[Guest]

============

Modern is clearly the natural progression to the northern scene, as it was to an extent born out of it. At least with modern you can actually get to hear something brand new as opposed to a reactivation. Theoretically there's going to come a time when everything circa 6Ts has been re-spun, well decent stuff anyway, where does the scene go from there? I think we're approaching the time when we give credit to a track purely because it was made in the 6Ts, the fact that its actually inferior in quality to it's predecessors in regards to a ''dance scene'', often being overlooked.

Winnie :-)

well said that man!

Jayne.x.

[Guest]

OK well take away the 60's music and see what you're left with.

A very very big list of top quality records and quite a few top quality venues too.

Jayne.x.

[Guest Goldwax]

Ther Northern scene IS 60's music, what on earth are you talking about?

I agree the Northern scene is predominately 60's but Barry's second question was 'would Modern ever have gained a scene alone without a 60's scene to base itself upon?' and you answered 'no' which I said was wrong as there are various club scenes over the country into 70's and later rare Soul music who have never stepped foot in a 60's northern night.

[Pete S]

A very very big list of top quality records and quite a few top quality venues too.

Jayne.x.

Well take them away and start a separate scene and disassociate yourself from Northern Soul then.

[tim smithers]

I agree the Northern scene is predominately 60's but Barry's second question was 'would Modern ever have gained a scene alone without a 60's scene to base itself upon?' and you answered 'no' which I said was wrong as there are various club scenes over the country into 70's and later rare Soul music who have never stepped foot in a 60's northern night.

I think it would have gained a scene on its own, and i wish i did ,because i have never thought the two go together, thats because i love my 60s Northern

[Pete S]

I agree the Northern scene is predominately 60's but Barry's second question was 'would Modern ever have gained a scene alone without a 60's scene to base itself upon?' and you answered 'no' which I said was wrong as there are various club scenes over the country into 70's and later rare Soul music who have never stepped foot in a 60's northern night.

Well then, yes, but it would be known as something else so it would be unreleated to the northern scene.

Sorry, can't explain what I'm trying to say.

[Guest]

Well take them away and start a separate scene and disassociate yourself from Northern Soul then.

I think they pretty much have!... that's certainly the direction I see it going in and I think it's a shame. It can certainly stand on it's own two feet.

Look at the Hilton weekender's...next year's blackpool weekender had the accomodation sold out before this year's was even finished.

Jayne.x.

[Guest Beeks]

Anyone for D'Angelo?

[Cunnie]

Well then, yes, but it would be known as something else so it would be unreleated to the northern scene.

Sorry, can't explain what I'm trying to say.

Ya can cut this out for a start.

Quite like the term 'Modern' & as our night is called Modernism I think we might have a problem if we had to change it to Somethingelseism

[Epic]

It seems to me that many people on the Northern Scene would rather listen to bad sixties records than decent seventies records. BTW I do know there have been plenty of bad seventies records played as well.

Somebody mentioned earlier in the thread about playing tunes that only got a few spins back in the day. The reason for this is if the DJ played something & got that "tumbleweed" moment even after 4 or 5 plays back in the box it went & that is where it stayed.

Of course Northern Soul is predominantly sixties - my problem with the tunes being played now is generally they don't stand up in terms of quality of tunes played in the glory glory days.

If you had played some of the records that have been played in recent years back in 73/74 you would have had a very short DJing career indeed. I cannot imagine any DJs back then would even contemplate playing Larry Trider, Richard Berry, Bill Bush etc.

Seventies records have always been played & have always been popular on the scene - for example "The Bottle" is NOT a traditional Northern Soul record yet it has filled dancefloors up & down the country for nearly 35 years.

[Guest]

I agree the Northern scene is predominately 60's but Barry's second question was 'would Modern ever have gained a scene alone without a 60's scene to base itself upon?' and you answered 'no' which I said was wrong as there are various club scenes over the country into 70's and later rare Soul music who have never stepped foot in a 60's northern night.

yes but without a 60's scene in the first place do you think they'd have evolved?.. I wonder if there would be a modern scene if places like the Mecca, or without DJ's like Searling et al doing what they did in the 70's.. ?? surely it all came from clubs that started out playing 60's?..

I hate to say it but...no, I wont even say his name...

I've had some interesting chats with Pete Haigh about this kinda thing..

Jayne.x.

[SteveM]

Ya can cut this out for a start.

Quite like the term 'Modern' & as our night is called Modernism I think we might have a problem if we had to change it to Somethingelseism

Ah, but is that "modern", as in Sam and Arthurs Modern Soul Scene (which we all know isn't modern because its 30 years ago blah blah blah ner ner ner etc etc etc ) or the stuff that you find on white labels in HMV on a Saturday morning Martin.

[SteveM]

It seems to me that many people on the Northern Scene would rather listen to bad sixties records than decent seventies records. BTW I do know there have been plenty of bad seventies records played as well.

Somebody mentioned earlier in the thread about playing tunes that only got a few spins back in the day. The reason for this is if the DJ played something & got that "tumbleweed" moment even after 4 or 5 plays back in the box it went & that is where it stayed.

Of course Northern Soul is predominantly sixties - my problem with the tunes being played now is generally they don't stand up in terms of quality of tunes played in the glory glory days.

If you had played some of the records that have been played in recent years back in 73/74 you would have had a very short DJing career indeed. I cannot imagine any DJs back then would even contemplate playing Larry Trider, Richard Berry, Bill Bush etc.

Seventies records have always been played & have always been popular on the scene - for example "The Bottle" is NOT a traditional Northern Soul record yet it has filled dancefloors up & down the country for nearly 35 years.

Sums it up perfectly imo.

[Guest Goldwax]

yes but without a 60's scene in the first place do you think they'd have evolved?.. I wonder if there would be a modern scene if places like the Mecca, or without DJ's like Searling et al doing what they did in the 70's.. ?? surely it all came from clubs that started out playing 60's?..

Jayne.x.

I think the club scene in London has evolved a little differently (I'm just a wee whippersnapper at 38 so I only know what I'm told by the bigger boys) and it's roots are less embedded in the 60's stuff than maybe other parts of the country.

I love it all so why am I getting involved in a bloody 60's v modern thread - it's my first by the way .

[SteveM]

I think the club scene in London has evolved a little differently (I'm just a wee whippersnapper at 38 so I only know what I'm told by the bigger boys) and it's roots are less embedded in the 60's stuff than maybe other parts of the country.

I love it all so why am I getting involved in a bloody 60's v modern thread - it's my first by the way .

Freebasings gone down the toilet thats why Craig

[Guest Beeks]

Ah, but is that "modern", as in Sam and Arthurs Modern Soul Scene (which we all know isn't modern because its 30 years ago blah blah blah ner ner ner etc etc etc ) or the stuff that you find on white labels in HMV on a Saturday morning Martin.

Haha thats what confuses me...why its called modern yet it's +30 years old...perhaps it should be referred to as post modern And what do you call modern soul music then? Future Modern?

[SteveM]

Haha thats what confuses me...why its called modern yet it's +30 years old...perhaps it should be referred to as post modern And what do you call modern soul music then? Future Modern?

House.

[Guest]

I think the club scene in London has evolved a little differently (I'm just a wee whippersnapper at 38 so I only know what I'm told by the bigger boys) and it's roots are less embedded in the 60's stuff than maybe other parts of the country.

I love it all so why am I getting involved in a bloody 60's v modern thread - it's my first by the way .

lol.. because as Steve says, we haven't got anything better to discuss..I too love it all too.

I dont really understand what you mean about the London scene, it kinda doesn't make sense and I too at 31, only know what I'm told by the bigger boys SO, I've got my hotel booked and I'm going to get off my enormous arse and come and have a look!. We're heading down to Monumental in October.

Jayne.x.

[Guest]

Haha thats what confuses me...why its called modern yet it's +30 years old...perhaps it should be referred to as post modern And what do you call modern soul music then? Future Modern?

Nu release silly!. There's classic modern and nu release modern!. (in my world anyway!)

Jayne.x.

[Sean Hampsey]

============

I think we're approaching the time when we give credit to a track purely because it was made in the 6Ts, the fact that its actually inferior in quality to it's predecessors in regards to a ''dance scene'', often being overlooked.

Winnie :-)

Very well put, but I'm sure we passed that point over 20 years ago, Win.

The mid 80's 'Northern Scene' spawned scores of dreadful records that seemed to be played purely because they were rare 60's (and because they acted as a minor backlash to the more modern tunes that were hugely popular at the time).

The Northern scene was progressing nicely in the early 80's (post Wigan) not least because we saw the extinction of Pop music on playlists but because we were able to play and enjoy 'current' Soul music, without some of the nonsense that, perversely, still prevails today.

Somewhere down the line, it seems, reactionaries and revisionists tried to claim back the scene as a 'retro' or exclusively 60's scene which of course was absolute nonsense - the roots of 'Mod' and Northern Soul are steeped in progressiveness and the promotion of 'current' music, along with the discovery and promotion of unplayed or forgotten 'earlier' records.

That mid 80's - '60's only' - backlash to the outbreak of a more Soulful, varied and open approach has left its unfortunate mark on the scene even to this day in creating unfortunate and unecessary splits and divisions.

So I would dispute any claims that the Northern scene is exclusively a 60's scene. In the 60's it played exclusively 60's, of course, but as decades progressed and newer Soul records were found these would obviously find favour amongst Soul fans - and should therefore be part of the playlist.

I blame Mr M's. Until that came along there was no 'retro bias' and the main rooms in Northern venues were distinctly progressive. As I see it, progression is the true 'Northern Scene' and '60's only' retro belongs in some offshoot backroom... if at all!

Sean

[Guest Beeks]

Nu release silly!. There's classic modern and nu release modern!. (in my world anyway!)

Jayne.x.

I hate that phrase NU!! WTF is NU?!?!

Its like soul music for the illiterate

[Guest]

I hate that phrase NU!! WTF is NU?!?!

Its like soul music for the illiterate

Nu Choons!!.. they're the future..

OK, well doesn't matter how you spell it!!..

New Release.. how's that?..

Jayne.x.

[Guest Beeks]

Nu Choons!!.. they're the future..

OK, well doesn't matter how you spell it!!..

New Release.. how's that?..

Jayne.x.

Better than the text speak abbreviations I suppose..."Wuu2 bbz? in2 ur Nu?"

[Winnie :-)]

I hate that phrase NU!! WTF is NU?!?!

Its like soul music for the illiterate

============

WTF is WTF.......... you youngsters and your text speak

[Guest]

Very well put, but I'm sure we passed that point over 20 years ago, Win.

The mid 80's 'Northern Scene' spawned scores of dreadful records that seemed to be played purely because they were rare 60's (and because they acted as a minor backlash to the more modern tunes that were hugely popular at the time).

The Northern scene was progressing nicely in the early 80's (post Wigan) not least because we saw the extinction of Pop music on playlists but because we were able to play and enjoy 'current' Soul music, without some of the nonsense that, perversely, still prevails today.

Somewhere down the line, it seems, reactionaries and revisionists tried to claim back the scene as a 'retro' or exclusively 60's scene which of course was absolute nonsense - the roots of 'Mod' and Northern Soul are steeped in progressiveness and the promotion of 'current' music, along with the discovery and promotion of unplayed or forgotten 'earlier' records.

That mid 80's - '60's only' - backlash to the outbreak of a more Soulful, varied and open approach has left its unfortunate mark on the scene even to this day in creating unfortunate and unecessary splits and divisions.

So I would dispute any claims that the Northern scene is exclusively a 60's scene. In the 60's it played exclusively 60's, of course, but as decades progressed and newer Soul records were found these would obviously find favour amongst Soul fans - and should therefore be part of the playlist.

I blame Mr M's. Until that came along there was no 'retro bias' and the main rooms in Northern venues were distinctly progressive. As I see it, progression is the true 'Northern Scene' and '60's only' retro belongs in some offshoot backroom... if at all!

Sean

Jayne.x.

[Guest soulmaguk]

I hate that phrase NU!! WTF is NU?!?!

Its like soul music for the illiterate

I know, it's Nu-Nu, you know...from teletubbies...or is that boo-boo!

[Epic]

There has always been a modern soul scene - people who bought Blues & Soul - Black Echoes - Black Music were into contemporary soul music - Northern Soul was only a small part of these publications.

When Blackpool Mecca dropped rare sixties music a lot of the people coming to the Highland Room came because they wanted to listen to Jazz Funk & Modern Soul/Disco. The All Dayers with acts like Roy Ayers & Crown Heights Affair appearing were always packed to the rafters.

The twice yearly Southport weekenders are always sell outs with many thousands of people attending. I would say less than five percent of these people have ever had any interest in Northern Soul.

[Guest]

============

WTF is WTF.......... you youngsters and your text speak

LOL.. our server's about 2 go down...

l8rs!!

Jayne.x

[Winnie :-)]

Better than the text speak abbreviations I suppose..."Wuu2 bbz? in2 ur Nu?"

===================

Is that esperanto? Does it really mean something?

Sean, agree it's been going on for years, but in an effort to maintain 6Ts bias is on the increase.

Win:-)

[Guest Simon]

I personally think a lot of the problems come with calling this music Northern Soul, the problem with this is it has a different meaning to different people.

My personal vision is probably fairly close to Petes, 6ts with a smidgeon of 7ts & the odd leftfield track thrown in however i also agree with Sean's view of Northern Soul although when out & about & hoping for a dance i'd personally rather hear Pete's playlist.

Maybe it should just be known as Rare Soul if it's music played from the 6ts to now as NS seems to be to restricting.

Simon

[Guest Beeks]

===================

Is that esperanto? Does it really mean something?

Sean, agree it's been going on for years, but in an effort to maintain 6Ts bias is on the increase.

Win:-)

Haha believe it or not yes...I loathe text speak...and the WTF was only used just to be polite in civilised company rather than spurting forth filth

[Guest Goldwax]

Freebasings gone down the toilet thats why Craig

Freebasing is so last month Steve. Soul music is the new politics. I suppose those 60's only types are the Labour party - always looking to over govern things and regulate people's lives. Modern'ers are Tories of course - new thinking entrepreneurial types with little respect for the past or the majority of people interests.

[Chris L]

1 yes

2 no

3 no

Here, here............well said that man.............