Eeee... When I Were A Lass

[Jumpinjoan]

For ages now people have been talking about how we should be bending over backwards for anyone remotely youngish in order to get them onto the scene.

From the amount of posts on here saying "is it any wonder the younger generation aren't getting into soul music" - you'd think that indifference to young folk was a new thing.

How many of you on here are able to say they their early days on the soul scene were a walk in the park?

What would have been the reaction at Wigan or Stafford or wherever if someone who had not been into it very long started walking round the place shouting about how many records he knew, how his knowledge on all aspects of soul music was unquestionable and how he'd forgotten more than you would ever know?

I can only speak from my own experiences, but when I started going to all nighters in the early 80's, if anyone started getting a bit cheeky they used to get pulled back down to earth pretty quickly.

Jeez, when I started buying records, sometimes I used to ask one of the lads to go and buy them for me I was too scared to go myself!

I will never forget one night at the Placemate 7 in Manchester, in the mid to late 80's, I was looking through the sales box of a certain DJ/dealer who I won't name (but he's as 'A' list as they come) when he shooed my hands out of the way and said with a smirk "a man's got to do what a man's got to do" then proceeded to slam the lid shut.

Did all the people in the record bar start shouting "is it any wonder there are no younger people getting into the soul scene"?

Or "you should be sharing your knowledge and helping kids who are just starting to collect records instead of slamming your box closed while they are having a look through".

Did they fig!

There will be a fair few members on here that would have been well 'established' on the scene when I was a newbie. How many of you were concerned about whether the likes of me kept going? How many went out of your way to ensure the newbie felt welcome?

I guess the point I am trying to make is that it has always been far from easy for newbie's to get accepted on the soul scene. It has never been handed to people on a plate. It was down to you to prove that you loved it. And you did have to prove it.

When I started there was no internet, so the way you got to know people and records was by going to the venues each week and by asking people to do you tapes. It took a long time to be accepted. And that acceptance came from one thing - going to venues week in week out.

It all seems a million miles away from today, where all you need to do is to shout loudly on an internet forum.

[arnie j]

good thread joan, i started going to nighters when i was 14, snook into leicester oddfellows and carried on doing stafford, morecambe, hinckley etc week in week out for over 10 yrs, i was very shy really but had older bigger boys with me to show me the ropes, i was treated very well and looked after but i knew my place in the scene and still do to this day

[Guest Beeks]

Honestly Joan...you'd think id never heard a soul record in my life haha!

Ive been collecting vinyl for 15+ years...im hardly wet behind the ears!!

Its a relative comparison...you all started collecting in the same age range(your teens)...so did I...only difference being you've had 10-15 years more of it....

Most of my close friends have been collecting for years too...and if you called them 'New Kids on the scene' they would laugh out loud!

Im genuinely not having a pop...think there has been enough bickering on here and believe it or not...I really am A genuinely nice guy and ill do my utmost not to rub people up the wrong way on here anymore...

But ive served my time musically...got a lot of good records and greater memories...and they wont be dismissed on the whim of a keyboard warrior

I love the music...I love the scene...I want to love the people...so just let me ok?

Edited July 13, 2008 by Beeks

[Pete S]

Mentioned this before but can't find it so, back in 1975, I was 15, I desperately wanted to go to Wigan but I was still at school so there was no chance, anyway I wore a Wigan Casino patch on this one shirt and me and a friend went to a monday night 'disco' at the Bradmore Arms pub. The dj saw me wearing this badge and he said "Have you ever been to Wigan" and I said "No" and he said "well don't ever let me catch you wearing that f*cking badge again" and I almost burst into tears. Because they were a friendly lot round here in those days

Micky Perks, t*sser.

[Guest gordon russell]

Hard one there miss joan of the turntable.When l went to bletsoe the one and only time it was with older lads who in turn knew the RIGHT people who were older than them.Didn't really think about being accepted,just kept my head down,glad to be part of this seceret thing (in those days anyway).Same thing when my mate said he'd got us a lift to the torch,say nowt and hope the fella didn't change his mind.Should we accept younger people?,don't give much thought to it either way.If younger soul fans are keen and more importantly genuine.....and thats the hard bit genuine,then they'll get to know who they want to and go where they want ,why the heck should they pay any attention to the older crowd if they don't want to.One thing is for sure they don't have to dodge the right orrible bastards that were about in the 70's thats for sure.The folk today are generally more friendly.My last thought and it always amazes me us 40/50 somethings who get to the nighters seem to have far more go in em and look like they're enjoying themselves far more than most 20/30 somethings,l know for sure the friends l park up at allnighters with and have the crac with do atb tezza

[boba]

Honestly Joan...you'd think id never heard a soul record in my life haha!

Ive been collecting vinyl for 15+ years...im hardly wet behind the ears!!

Its a relative comparison...you all started collecting in the same age range(your teens)...so did I...only difference being you've had 10-15 years more of it....

Most of my close friends have been collecting for years too...and if you called them 'New Kids on the scene' they would laugh out loud!

Im genuinely not having a pop...think there has been enough bickering on here and believe it or not...I really am A genuinely nice guy and ill do my utmost not to rub people up the wrong way on here anymore...

But ive served my time musically...got a lot of good records and greater memories...and they wont be dismissed on the whim of a keyboard warrior

I love the music...I love the scene...I want to love the people...so just let me ok?

although it is very funny, I don't understand why you keep talking about how much you know about records and how long you have been collecting and in the scene. Nobody is taking shots at you directly (there are people here who know very little to people who know vast amounts about music and everyone here is pretty accepting), they are only responding to your constant posts about how much you know, how big your collection is, etc. I think you should either talk about actual music or at least stop talking about how much you know about records, how long you have been collecting, it comes across as very strange. Why would anyone who knows a lot about music or who has been in the scene forever need to constantly talk about that fact itself? it should be reflected in their other posts about real subject material.

[Guest Beeks]

although it is very funny, I don't understand why you keep talking about how much you know about records and how long you have been collecting and in the scene. Nobody is taking shots at you directly (there are people here who know very little to people who know vast amounts about music and everyone here is pretty accepting), they are only responding to your constant posts about how much you know, how big your collection is, etc. I think you should either talk about actual music or at least stop talking about how much you know about records, how long you have been collecting, it comes across as very strange. Why would anyone who knows a lot about music or who has been in the scene forever need to constantly talk about that fact itself? it should be reflected in their other posts about real subject material.

Nobodys been taking shots at me directly?

Have you been reading this forum recently?

Im not going to get into another slagging match with anyone...was only pointing out im not some muppet that lies down when told to by people who think they know what im about

and if you took time to look at my posts ive been minding my own business and chatting to folk on here who are alot more amicable about music I like...no point talking music with people who dont respect what im going to say in the first place is there?

you stick with the 'In Crowd'

Im gonna keep my head down

Unless some other tosser decides to post up yet another thread about me...

Honestly...you'd think you would have better things to do

[Jez Jones]

Hard one there miss joan of the turntable.When l went to bletsoe the one and only time it was with older lads who in turn knew the RIGHT people who were older than them.Didn't really think about being accepted,just kept my head down,glad to be part of this seceret thing (in those days anyway).Same thing when my mate said he'd got us a lift to the torch,say nowt and hope the fella didn't change his mind.Should we accept younger people?,don't give much thought to it either way.If younger soul fans are keen and more importantly genuine.....and thats the hard bit genuine,then they'll get to know who they want to and go where they want ,why the heck should they pay any attention to the older crowd if they don't want to.One thing is for sure they don't have to dodge the right orrible bastards that were about in the 70's thats for sure.The folk today are generally more friendly.My last thought and it always amazes me us 40/50 somethings who get to the nighters seem to have far more go in em and look like they're enjoying themselves far more than most 20/30 somethings,l know for sure the friends l park up at allnighters with and have the crac with do atb tezza

Fair and valid point that is. I bet I am not the only one on here who has been 'rolled' at least once for gear,records,money or even clothes . There were some right evil c&nts about back then.

[Pete S]

Fair and valid point that is. I bet I am not the only one on here who has been 'rolled' at least once for gear,records,money or even clothes . There were some right evil c&nts about back then.

No, you're definitely not!

[Soulgrit]

Or "you should be sharing your knowledge and helping kids who are just starting to collect records instead of slamming your box closed while they are having a look through".

Joan, when my friend's and I started going to the wheel in about 1967, there were few oldie's about to get any info, the only way we gained any knowledge was to talk, listen and learn among ourself's and other folk's from different place's, and we learned slowly but surely, the one thing that still stand's out tho, was that we all shared, we helped each other out, also later on we did'nt look down at newbie's as they came to join us, we welcomed them.

Each piece of knowledge was new to everyone once, and everyone was a newbie once.

Willie

Edited July 13, 2008 by Soulgrit

[Guest souljack]

good thread joan, i started going to nighters when i was 14, snook into leicester oddfellows and carried on doing stafford, morecambe, hinckley etc week in week out for over 10 yrs, i was very shy really but had older bigger boys with me to show me the ropes, i was treated very well and looked after but i knew my place in the scene and still do to this day

so you did me owd pal,remember the night we looked after you six of us in steve haines wee mini and you were so desperate to go to the parr hall,you went in the boot,absolute frozen it were lad you looked like death warmed up when we opened the boot to let you out as i remember i had to lift you out and you had developed a speach impediment fff ffff ffffrozzzzeeen mmmmmmeeee bolllllloxx off you cants were the words ,young un,happy days

[arnie j]

so you did me owd pal,remember the night we looked after you six of us in steve haines wee mini and you were so desperate to go to the parr hall,you went in the boot,absolute frozen it were lad you looked like death warmed up when we opened the boot to let you out as i remember i had to lift you out and you had developed a speach impediment fff ffff ffffrozzzzeeen mmmmmmeeee bolllllloxx off you cants were the words ,young un,happy days

eye up big fella, its thanks to guys like you who looked after us young uns that i stuck with this soul thing mate, and u being a dj with a great collection for me to drool over, and for the music education u gave me too bud, to me thats what this scene should be about, i remember that nite in the boot just like it was yesterday my friend

[Guest gordon russell]

No, you're definitely not!

l never got rolled for anything,just knew who to avoid,what not to say and knew a few of my own orrible bastards lol....just in case lol...any one remember CLICK from leics,WILKY from corby and l got on real well with black (big) robbo from the midlands

[Guest gordon russell]

Joan, when my friend's and I started going to the wheel in about 1967, there were few oldie's about to get any info, the only way we gained any knowledge was to talk, listen and learn among ourself's and other folk's from different place's, and we learned slowly but surely, the one thing that still stand's out tho, was that we all shared, we helped each other out, also later on we did'nt look down at newbie's as they came to join us, we welcomed them.

Each piece on knowledge was new to everyone once.

Willie

Willie, think your a credit mate,been about all this time and still you want to hear differant stuff and get your self out and about...good on ya ...see ya at the cave

[Guest Soultown andy]

Anyone remember neil from bolton sandys sidekick,one nite in the record bar at wigan about 79ish i had a few for sale think there was a jay traynor, bobby goldsboro,sue lynn,stuff like that and a cobblestone which he wanted.At the time i was 18 but looked younger no change there then,he asked me who i was selling the records for and i said they were mine so he put the record back and said,when the big boys come back tell them im interested in that.So not much changes.

[Baz Atkinson]

THE NORTHERN SCENE USED TO BE A HARD PLAC3E TO CUT YOUR TEETH,NOW EVERYONE HAS A VIEW ,A HUGE COLLECTION,GREAT DJ ETC,I AM NOT ONE TO DENY ANYONE THEIR VIEW BUT I DO GET SICK OF READING THE CONSTANT SHITE ON HERE. THEIR SEEMS SUCH A LACK OF EMPHASIS ON THE MUSIC AND A 80% PERCENT EMPHASIS ON WHOS WHO,VENUES,DJS,FADS ETC.

I COME ON HERE SINCRERLY BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE WITH MASSIVE KNOWLEDGE OF BLACK AMERICAN SOUL MUSIC [NOT NORTHERN SOUL MUSIC,WHATEVER THAT MAYBE?]I FEEL HUMBLE SOMETIMES WHEN I READ STUFF AND LISTEN TO THE CONSTANT STREAM OF NEW STUFF TO MY EARS VIA THE VARIOUS THREADS ON THE MEDIA SECTION FROM GOOD PEOPLE WHO JUST LOVE BLACK MUSIC IN WHATEVER FORM.

AS FOR YOUNG PEOPLE ON THE SCENE I DONT THINK THEIR VIEW IS LESS VALID DUE TO THE FACT THAT THEIR HAVE NOT PAID THEIR DUES ,I WELCOME YOUNG PEOPLE AS LONG AS THEIR STAY AWAY FROM ME[i AM VERY INTORLENT MOST OF THE TIME ANYWAY] IN A CERTAIN KIND OF WAY THIER CAN SEE THE SCENE IN A DIFFERENT LIGHT AND THAT CAN BE REFRESHING ALBELT A TAD ANNOYING SOMETIMES.

AS I GET OLDER I MOVE MORE AWAY FROM THIS SCENE DUE TO THE FRACTIONS,ELITISM,BULLSHIT,AND THE CONSTANT NEED FOR THE NEXT BIG RECORD [F--K ME WHEN ARE SOME OF YOU GONNA WAKE UP TOTHE ENDLESS POSSIBILITIES BLACK MUSIC CAN OFFER,INSTEAD OF SPLASHING OUT ON BIGGER RECORDS MOST OF WHICH HAVE HAD THE ARSE SPUN OUT OF THEM FIRST TIME ROUND ANYWAY.

BAZ A

SEE YOU ALL AT PETE LAWSONS MEMORIAL [GOOD THREAD JOAN]

[pikeys dog]

There's always been bullies on the scene - Pete Lawson tried it with me at the Twisted Wheel revivals - and got a rousing f*ck right off in return.

[Wiganer1]

There's always been bullies on the scene - Pete Lawson tried it with me at the Twisted Wheel revivals - and got a rousing f*ck right off in return.

====

and a certain tommo from leicester was with me ..especially at the Stafford allniters...luckily got through it and got his respect in the end!

[arnie j]

There's always been bullies on the scene - Pete Lawson tried it with me at the Twisted Wheel revivals - and got a rousing f*ck right off in return.

tomo from leicester rugby tackled me at stafford !!

[Guest Matt Male]

tomo from leicester rugby tackled me at stafford !!

He used to call me 'Not Shiny' geddit... Matt/Not Shiny?

He was well fierce to the uninitiated, everyone was a 'goose' if they slipped up musically. When you got to know him though he was a really nice bloke with a fantastic love of soul music. Sadly missed.

[Mark Bicknell]

Deleted.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Mark Bicknell

[Bazza]

I have never been a newbie really,being a little older than many on here,been going to do's since 71-72,and before that to underage kids "disco's",I grew up with the scene,it has always been a part of me,But I would never say to anyone I know all about it or Im this or that, I know that I im not in the same street knowledge wise as the Pete Smiths and chalky's to name just a couple,I have great respect for folks such as those two,many more bye the way, I think a certain person new to SS seemed to be showing no respect for anyone but himself

Bazza

[Baz Atkinson]

There's always been bullies on the scene - Pete Lawson tried it with me at the Twisted Wheel revivals - and got a rousing f*ck right off in return.

Pete tried it everyone at some point lol.

BAZ A

[Stevie]

Fair and valid point that is. I bet I am not the only one on here who has been 'rolled' at least once for gear,records,money or even clothes . There were some right evil c&nts about back then.

Never happened to me but I was taught from the off that if you went into the toilets at Wigan you put your money in your shoe first. Couple of lads I knew got rolled on the platform at Wigan Station on the way home. Had the spare clothes taken out of their bags and then the tw*ts tried to push them off the platform in front of the train just as it was arriving. Knew another guy who 'dealt' a bit who used to carry a jar of hydrochloric acid just in case!

[Stevie]

And what about the walk up to the Casino from the railway station - talk about running the gauntlet!

[Bazza]

was a bit of a lad myself,used to carry a little climbers ice axe,never had need to use it though,apart from one time I was skint ,got on the bus ,when the conducter asked for my money I said no money but ive got this (the axe ) now f*ck off,he left me alone

tut tut Bazza

[Guest bazabod_downunder]

I think we all would have the impression that we served some sort of 'initiation' to become accepted, either at your local soul nite or on the larger scale, the alnighter scene.....I suspect that the majority would agree that the road from the side of the dance floor into the throng, or the edge of the conversation into the starting the conversation about a record/artist & so on was pretty scary & also exciting stuff.

Once when I was a Wigan, we were walking down the stairs from the balcony, as usual there were people half lying up the stairs with more people trying to come up the stairs, I accidently stepped on some poor lads hand.....his reply was 'Fucking Manchester bastard'....I was chuffed as I was from down south...lol...made me feel more accepted because he thought I was from up north.

KTF

Baz

For ages now people have been talking about how we should be bending over backwards for anyone remotely youngish in order to get them onto the scene.

From the amount of posts on here saying "is it any wonder the younger generation aren't getting into soul music" - you'd think that indifference to young folk was a new thing.

How many of you on here are able to say they their early days on the soul scene were a walk in the park?

What would have been the reaction at Wigan or Stafford or wherever if someone who had not been into it very long started walking round the place shouting about how many records he knew, how his knowledge on all aspects of soul music was unquestionable and how he'd forgotten more than you would ever know?

I can only speak from my own experiences, but when I started going to all nighters in the early 80's, if anyone started getting a bit cheeky they used to get pulled back down to earth pretty quickly.

Jeez, when I started buying records, sometimes I used to ask one of the lads to go and buy them for me I was too scared to go myself!

I will never forget one night at the Placemate 7 in Manchester, in the mid to late 80's, I was looking through the sales box of a certain DJ/dealer who I won't name (but he's as 'A' list as they come) when he shooed my hands out of the way and said with a smirk "a man's got to do what a man's got to do" then proceeded to slam the lid shut.

Did all the people in the record bar start shouting "is it any wonder there are no younger people getting into the soul scene"?

Or "you should be sharing your knowledge and helping kids who are just starting to collect records instead of slamming your box closed while they are having a look through".

Did they fig!

There will be a fair few members on here that would have been well 'established' on the scene when I was a newbie. How many of you were concerned about whether the likes of me kept going? How many went out of your way to ensure the newbie felt welcome?

I guess the point I am trying to make is that it has always been far from easy for newbie's to get accepted on the soul scene. It has never been handed to people on a plate. It was down to you to prove that you loved it. And you did have to prove it.

When I started there was no internet, so the way you got to know people and records was by going to the venues each week and by asking people to do you tapes. It took a long time to be accepted. And that acceptance came from one thing - going to venues week in week out.

It all seems a million miles away from today, where all you need to do is to shout loudly on an internet forum.

[Ian Dewhirst]

In the early 70's the initiation process was pretty straightforward.

If you were new to the scene, you were a 'div'.

You'd then do the compulsory 3-6 months of keeping your mouth shut, going to venues, absorbing knowledge until eventually you'd be elevated to the level of 'proper souly' and then find yourself noticing the next lot of fresh 'divs' onto the scene, who after 6-9 months would eventually be acknowledged by you and so on.........

Top of the heap was anyone who went to the Wheel as we tended to respect the older soulboys back then.

Ian D

[Guest]

Still dont fit in !! 30 odd,very odd years......good laugh though!! lots a good records and stuff.

[Guest]

`Div ' and` proper souly' terms which were used in Cleethorpes for sure. Whilst I was in the `div' phase I daren't even dance. I just watched the older soulies in awe and hoped to be as good one day. Funny though how when the Winter Gardens ended early 80's those `older' soulies with attitude seemed to dissapear for years ? And even funnier that when they reappeared some still thought of themselves as ` it '. maybe it had nothing to do with their superior knowledge of the music/ scene after all ? I Can't say they ever bothered me though. I know enough, know where I'v been and where I'm at. as long as people behave I don't mind how old they are.

[Prophonics 2029]

Its a funny one, everybody has a knowledge some more than others, then themselves less than others and once its know and out what's the next news, sound or background info?

[TOAD]

tomo from leicester rugby tackled me at stafford !!

huh what an irritating he was! thought he was funny till someone got him in a corner at stafford then he soon shut up

[Sean Hampsey]

Live and let live is the best motto.

FFS it's only an appreciation of Music.

We're not saving the world here!

The Music is (often) great. It's (a minority of) individuals and their paper thin 'rules', pettiness, one-upmanship, egos and cynicism that screws it all up... sometimes!

The 'rights of passage' and 'earning your stripes' crap belongs to some weird cult (or public school environment :-) ).

Shouldn't have anything to do with the right to hear and enjoy the music!

Got to say, I'm very much on board with some of the things that Baz said (above).

I find lots of things, on the scene that I love.

I love Soul Music. But a lot of what masquerades as Soul Music on it appalls me... and the 'game playing' I've ofen found totally infantile! I've never made a secret of that.

But so what! Opinions are like arseholes - everybody's got one!

Live and let live. See the bigger picture and wise up.

Hopefully the music will live on and be appreciated when we're all dead and gone (probably in the next 20 years or so for many of us).

Life's too short - and it's only Rock N' Roll when all said and done!

Sean

[Dylan]

when do you stop being young ? when does the x-over to oldness happen

[Guest gordon russell]

div is a word thats been used forever......think it has liverpudlian origins....help us out here cogster. the word "soulie" however is newish to me,l might add never a word l would use,it's as bad as the phrase NORTHERN SOUL.....both the words soulie and n/soul are if you'll excuse me DIVVY in themselves.l say this in all seriousness,but this is a friendly thread so lets keep it that way please T

[Guest gordon russell]

when do you stop being young ? when does the x-over to oldness happen

when ya dead lol

[sister dawn]

For ages now people have been talking about how we should be bending over backwards for anyone remotely youngish in order to get them onto the scene.

From the amount of posts on here saying "is it any wonder the younger generation aren't getting into soul music" - you'd think that indifference to young folk was a new thing.

How many of you on here are able to say they their early days on the soul scene were a walk in the park?

What would have been the reaction at Wigan or Stafford or wherever if someone who had not been into it very long started walking round the place shouting about how many records he knew, how his knowledge on all aspects of soul music was unquestionable and how he'd forgotten more than you would ever know?

I can only speak from my own experiences, but when I started going to all nighters in the early 80's, if anyone started getting a bit cheeky they used to get pulled back down to earth pretty quickly.

Jeez, when I started buying records, sometimes I used to ask one of the lads to go and buy them for me I was too scared to go myself!

I will never forget one night at the Placemate 7 in Manchester, in the mid to late 80's, I was looking through the sales box of a certain DJ/dealer who I won't name (but he's as 'A' list as they come) when he shooed my hands out of the way and said with a smirk "a man's got to do what a man's got to do" then proceeded to slam the lid shut.

Did all the people in the record bar start shouting "is it any wonder there are no younger people getting into the soul scene"?

Or "you should be sharing your knowledge and helping kids who are just starting to collect records instead of slamming your box closed while they are having a look through".

Did they fig!

There will be a fair few members on here that would have been well 'established' on the scene when I was a newbie. How many of you were concerned about whether the likes of me kept going? How many went out of your way to ensure the newbie felt welcome?

I guess the point I am trying to make is that it has always been far from easy for newbie's to get accepted on the soul scene. It has never been handed to people on a plate. It was down to you to prove that you loved it. And you did have to prove it.

When I started there was no internet, so the way you got to know people and records was by going to the venues each week and by asking people to do you tapes. It took a long time to be accepted. And that acceptance came from one thing - going to venues week in week out.

It all seems a million miles away from today, where all you need to do is to shout loudly on an internet forum.

Spot on post Joan,

It did take along time to get accepted and having to prove that you weren't just some sort of ship just passing in the nite, I suppose these days we call em handbaggers...lol.

It was even harder being a girlie collecting music in a typically male orientated world too and had similar expeiences when searching for that elusive sound.

I really don't think we are as suspicious about youngsters coming on to the scene these days as what we were and are more accepting, despite some 'keyboard warriors' suggesting otherwise.

There was ''etiqutte'' on the scene that was adhered too such as the dancefloor as an example - if you were good you were at the front not too bad then the middle etc etc .... You had to prove yourself, practice your dancing and reap the rewards, same similar sort of etiquette applied to the Djay lists too with breaking a must have sound and earning respect from your peers.

Now it appears that, like you already suggested, those that 'shout loudest on an internet forum' can command everything that many of us worked hard to achieve.

[Pete S]

There was ''etiqutte'' on the scene that was adhered too such as the dancefloor as an example - if you were good you were at the front not too bad then the middle etc etc ....

I have to say that I think this is an urban myth, no offence Dawn, but after 6 or 7 months of going to the Casino I would sometimes dance at the front if I felt like it but usually danced at the back and to the right because that's where most of our lot sat. When there were only a couple of us, we often used to sit on the stage and dance literally at the very front, but it was nothing to do with a pecking order.

[sister dawn]

I have to say that I think this is an urban myth, no offence Dawn, but after 6 or 7 months of going to the Casino I would sometimes dance at the front if I felt like it but usually danced at the back and to the right because that's where most of our lot sat. When there were only a couple of us, we often used to sit on the stage and dance literally at the very front, but it was nothing to do with a pecking order.

Were ya good then Pete

[Guest Mrs Simsy]

so you did me owd pal,remember the night we looked after you six of us in steve haines wee mini and you were so desperate to go to the parr hall,you went in the boot,absolute frozen it were lad you looked like death warmed up when we opened the boot to let you out as i remember i had to lift you out and you had developed a speach impediment fff ffff ffffrozzzzeeen mmmmmmeeee bolllllloxx off you cants were the words ,young un,happy days

You put him in the boot of your car?!

when do you stop being young ? when does the x-over to oldness happen

[Pete S]

Were ya good then Pete

I bloomin' was! Especially at shuffling. Can't do it now though for more than 30 seconds

[Chalky]

For ages now people have been talking about how we should be bending over backwards for anyone remotely youngish in order to get them onto the scene.

From the amount of posts on here saying "is it any wonder the younger generation aren't getting into soul music" - you'd think that indifference to young folk was a new thing.

How many of you on here are able to say they their early days on the soul scene were a walk in the park?

What would have been the reaction at Wigan or Stafford or wherever if someone who had not been into it very long started walking round the place shouting about how many records he knew, how his knowledge on all aspects of soul music was unquestionable and how he'd forgotten more than you would ever know?

I can only speak from my own experiences, but when I started going to all nighters in the early 80's, if anyone started getting a bit cheeky they used to get pulled back down to earth pretty quickly.

Jeez, when I started buying records, sometimes I used to ask one of the lads to go and buy them for me I was too scared to go myself!

I will never forget one night at the Placemate 7 in Manchester, in the mid to late 80's, I was looking through the sales box of a certain DJ/dealer who I won't name (but he's as 'A' list as they come) when he shooed my hands out of the way and said with a smirk "a man's got to do what a man's got to do" then proceeded to slam the lid shut.

Did all the people in the record bar start shouting "is it any wonder there are no younger people getting into the soul scene"?

Or "you should be sharing your knowledge and helping kids who are just starting to collect records instead of slamming your box closed while they are having a look through".

Did they fig!

There will be a fair few members on here that would have been well 'established' on the scene when I was a newbie. How many of you were concerned about whether the likes of me kept going? How many went out of your way to ensure the newbie felt welcome?

I guess the point I am trying to make is that it has always been far from easy for newbie's to get accepted on the soul scene. It has never been handed to people on a plate. It was down to you to prove that you loved it. And you did have to prove it.

When I started there was no internet, so the way you got to know people and records was by going to the venues each week and by asking people to do you tapes. It took a long time to be accepted. And that acceptance came from one thing - going to venues week in week out.

It all seems a million miles away from today, where all you need to do is to shout loudly on an internet forum.

I was a newbie pretty much the same time as you Joan, maybe a year or so later I think but I don't really remember having any trouble. I started going to nighters with some established "soulies" from the Chesterfield and Mansfield area, Tats & Rob Wigley, Graham Manlove, Alan Gibbons etc and was pretty well looked after.

Got to know the elders of the scene pretty quickly and started collecting more or less straight away so was never out of the record bar at nighters. I went somewhere every weekend both Friday and Saturday, usually a soul night followed by a nighter.

Generally I treated people the way I wished to be treat and I showed repsect to those who had been around, didn't shoot my mouth off (I'm not that type anyway ) and i listened and I learned. I was never afraid to ask a question no matter how trivial and found most more than happy to help. I certainly wouldn't have insulted long standing soulies claimed back then to have known more than they have forgotten, I'd have been done over Imagine telling Pete Lawson that

As for Pete, never had a problem with him, finished up a good mate. He gave me the odd bollocking, usually when I asked for the rare stuff records don't have to be rare to be good he would say, how true! He got us out of the odd scrape or two, paid for taxi's back to Chesterfield from the odd place, returned the favour etc etc..top bloke sadly missed.

[Guest]

Live and let live is the best motto.

FFS it's only an appreciation of Music.

We're not saving the world here!

The Music is (often) great. It's (a minority of) individuals and their paper thin 'rules', pettiness, one-upmanship, egos and cynicism that screws it all up... sometimes!

The 'rights of passage' and 'earning your stripes' crap belongs to some weird cult (or public school environment :-) ).

Shouldn't have anything to do with the right to hear and enjoy the music!

Got to say, I'm very much on board with some of the things that Baz said (above).

I find lots of things, on the scene that I love.

I love Soul Music. But a lot of what masquerades as Soul Music on it appalls me... and the 'game playing' I've ofen found totally infantile! I've never made a secret of that.

But so what! Opinions are like arseholes - everybody's got one!

Live and let live. See the bigger picture and wise up.

Hopefully the music will live on and be appreciated when we're all dead and gone (probably in the next 20 years or so for many of us).

Life's too short - and it's only Rock N' Roll when all said and done!

Sean

agreed Sean.

Interesting thread Joan - I've been surprised by quite a few things I've read today. In all the stories I've heard. I've never heard anyone talk of trouble at or around Wigan.. or any big soul venue really.

Jayne.x.

[TOAD]

TROUBLE ALL THE TIME OUTSIDE THE CASINO FIGHTING OUTSIDE YATE AND A BIG FIGHT IN WINSFORD WITH PUNKS

[Guest]

TROUBLE ALL THE TIME OUTSIDE THE CASINO FIGHTING OUTSIDE YATE AND A BIG FIGHT IN WINSFORD WITH PUNKS

maybe the people I knew were all well behaved. lol. Though it's more likely that 'selective memory loss' comes into action when recalling old tales.

Jayne.x.

[sister dawn]

TROUBLE ALL THE TIME OUTSIDE THE CASINO FIGHTING OUTSIDE YATE AND A BIG FIGHT IN WINSFORD WITH PUNKS

IT WASN'T ME

Who else used to run the gauntlet then from train stations to venues on here and used to get all cocky as ya turned a corner and saw a load of the older soul mob, just as your enemy came around the same corner

[Guest Simon]

I don't think it's such a bad thing having to earn your stripes so to speak, means you'll be more respected in the long run imo.

I had to do it at dos & on the web, remember going to my first do & being blown away & terrified at the same time by the dancing, went home & practiced a few steps i'd seen before i felt confident enough to get on the dancefloor.

The same with buying records, had to put a hell of a lot of work in before i was confident & knowledgeable enough to talk about records, didn't wanna come across as too green although i'm sure i did for a while.

Remember when i first joined KTF web group, used to be quite ferocious at times & get involved in some quite full on arguments like Beeks has been in on here, in the end when i met these people in the flesh though they all turned out to be the salt of the earth.

So all in all i think it's quite good that you have to put the effort in to be taken seriously on this scene although i agree with Sean & Baz that the music is definitely the key thing & even without this so called 'Scene' the music would still be there.

I'm assuming this thread was started in response to Beeks recent postings, my views are that Beeks comes across to me as a decent bloke but is maybe trying to hard to prove himself, don't personally think there's much more to it than that.

Simon

[Naughty Boy]

For ages now people have been talking about how we should be bending over backwards for anyone remotely youngish in order to get them onto the scene.

From the amount of posts on here saying "is it any wonder the younger generation aren't getting into soul music" - you'd think that indifference to young folk was a new thing.

How many of you on here are able to say they their early days on the soul scene were a walk in the park?

What would have been the reaction at Wigan or Stafford or wherever if someone who had not been into it very long started walking round the place shouting about how many records he knew, how his knowledge on all aspects of soul music was unquestionable and how he'd forgotten more than you would ever know?

I can only speak from my own experiences, but when I started going to all nighters in the early 80's, if anyone started getting a bit cheeky they used to get pulled back down to earth pretty quickly.

Jeez, when I started buying records, sometimes I used to ask one of the lads to go and buy them for me I was too scared to go myself!

I will never forget one night at the Placemate 7 in Manchester, in the mid to late 80's, I was looking through the sales box of a certain DJ/dealer who I won't name (but he's as 'A' list as they come) when he shooed my hands out of the way and said with a smirk "a man's got to do what a man's got to do" then proceeded to slam the lid shut.

Did all the people in the record bar start shouting "is it any wonder there are no younger people getting into the soul scene"?

Or "you should be sharing your knowledge and helping kids who are just starting to collect records instead of slamming your box closed while they are having a look through".

Did they fig!

There will be a fair few members on here that would have been well 'established' on the scene when I was a newbie. How many of you were concerned about whether the likes of me kept going? How many went out of your way to ensure the newbie felt welcome?

I guess the point I am trying to make is that it has always been far from easy for newbie's to get accepted on the soul scene. It has never been handed to people on a plate. It was down to you to prove that you loved it. And you did have to prove it.

When I started there was no internet, so the way you got to know people and records was by going to the venues each week and by asking people to do you tapes. It took a long time to be accepted. And that acceptance came from one thing - going to venues week in week out.

It all seems a million miles away from today, where all you need to do is to shout loudly on an internet forum.

Fooking too right Jumpin J well put across

Rob

[Guest KEN-SOUL]

im sorry if people are upset by things they find upsetting within the scene. i was born into a culture of northern soul when i was growing up in edinburgh in the 70s. the whole street had northern soul devotees...we used to dance to cassette recordings in the street!... i never knew of any hostility.

[Dave Pinch]

Live and let live is the best motto.

FFS it's only an appreciation of Music.

We're not saving the world here!

The Music is (often) great. It's (a minority of) individuals and their paper thin 'rules', pettiness, one-upmanship, egos and cynicism that screws it all up... sometimes!

The 'rights of passage' and 'earning your stripes' crap belongs to some weird cult (or public school environment :-) ).

Shouldn't have anything to do with the right to hear and enjoy the music!

Got to say, I'm very much on board with some of the things that Baz said (above).

I find lots of things, on the scene that I love.

I love Soul Music. But a lot of what masquerades as Soul Music on it appalls me... and the 'game playing' I've ofen found totally infantile! I've never made a secret of that.

But so what! Opinions are like arseholes - everybody's got one!

Live and let live. See the bigger picture and wise up.

Hopefully the music will live on and be appreciated when we're all dead and gone (probably in the next 20 years or so for many of us).

Life's too short - and it's only Rock N' Roll when all said and done!

Sean

well said sean. couldnt have put it any better myself

dave