Dumb Dumb Dumbing It Down

[paup-ine]

Think we have to face facts that the Northern Scene is no longer underground - it hasn't been for a good many years.

Of course there are still little pockets where rare & underplayed soul is played.

Think a lot of it goes back to the mid seventies when your local club would play "a bit of Northern Soul" alongside the pop tunes of the day.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree. With the internet now, the music is so available.

For us older ones, It will never be the same as it was. Going to a venue, and hearing sounds for first time etc.. Going back to hear it again... (same old story). When you're young, everything is fresh and new.

I first heard a few sounds in our local disco pub in West Wales, the DJ was from Wolverhampton. I was 15 years (yes I was under age!).

But that was my first introduction, from then on, I was on discovery road. Was always welcomed at venues.

So for the new generation, the feeling is going to be similar. Exciting. Didn't we all do little naive things when we were young, and growing up?

Don't go anywhere now unfortunately, (I would if I could, but when you live out in the sticks, you can't just pop up the road to that 'another' event on).

SO DONT MOAN ABOUT THE NO. OF EVENTS ON, YOUR LUCKY YOU GOT THE CHOICE!

p

P

Edited June 24, 2008 by paup-ine

[tim smithers]

Who Are the Handbaggers we should keep out?

It's harder to tell today cos not everyones the dancer they thought they once were

Half (probably more than half) of us wouldn't be allowed out unless we took our/your 'handbagger' partners with you

ENJOY IT WHILE YOU STILL CAN

KTF

You dont need to keep the handbagers out because there filling the venues while the soulies are spending most of the nite, smoking and moaning outside

[Steve G]

I think the northern scene has long been largely a revival scene just regurgitating the same records. It's become largely what I hoped it would never become - a nostalgia scene like the rock and roll scene was years ago with Teddy boys, drainpipes and silly dancing. Perhaps it's not that surprising as the music itself is largely so old now. As this revival scene has grown, so has the baloney that goes with it - clocks, northern soul greeting cards, Frank Wilson keyrings etc - all part of this "NS is a way of life" nonsense.

To me it's always been about the music first.....but as time has gone on, fewer and fewer have been interested in expanding new horizons, hearing new sounds etc. (well apart from Duffy!). Yes it's partly an age thing, and also partly true that most civilians don't tend to expand their musical horizons either (grew up liking Quo, you probably still have their greatest hits in your car CD player). However the soul scene was supposed to be different, fresh, exciting, different, cool.

It's a real damning indictment about the state of the NS scene that the forward thinking progressive venues just about get enough in to make it viable a few times a year and even some of them struggle. By contrast in large parts of the country you by an old rig, put on a Wigan oldies night and you get 350+ in all clapping to the breaks etc.

Too many DJ's, too many venues, tackiness and stagnating musical taste - all true I am afraid.

Thankfully continental Europe offers such a fresh perspective where more new sounds can be played without some old codger shouting in your ear "You got Barbara McNair mate?".

[Chalky]

I think the northern scene has long been largely a revival scene just regurgitating the same records. It's become largely what I hoped it would never become - a nostalgia scene like the rock and roll scene was years ago with Teddy boys, drainpipes and silly dancing. Perhaps it's not that surprising as the music itself is largely so old now. As this revival scene has grown, so has the baloney that goes with it - clocks, northern soul greeting cards, Frank Wilson keyrings etc - all part of this "NS is a way of life" nonsense.

To me it's always been about the music first.....but as time has gone on, fewer and fewer have been interested in expanding new horizons, hearing new sounds etc. (well apart from Duffy!). Yes it's partly an age thing, and also partly true that most civilians don't tend to expand their musical horizons either (grew up liking Quo, you probably still have their greatest hits in your car CD player). However the soul scene was supposed to be different, fresh, exciting, different, cool.

It's a real damning indictment about the state of the NS scene that the forward thinking progressive venues just about get enough in to make it viable a few times a year and even some of them struggle. By contrast in large parts of the country you by an old rig, put on a Wigan oldies night and you get 350+ in all clapping to the breaks etc.

Too many DJ's, too many venues, tackiness and stagnating musical taste - all true I am afraid.

Thankfully continental Europe offers such a fresh perspective where more new sounds can be played without some old codger shouting in your ear "You got Barbara McNair mate?".

Spot on Steve.

Too many who just don't give a f*ck about the scene apart from taking what they can out of it. It's about time some promoters looked at the wider picture and the future of the scene rather than their own self interests and over inflated opinion of themselves.

[Guest]

Spot on Steve.

Too many who just don't give a f*ck about the scene apart from taking what they can out of it. It's about time some promoters looked at the wider picture and the future of the scene rather than their own self interests and over inflated opinion of themselves.

OMG - Chalky!.. that' must be twice now in the last 10 years I'm agreeing with you...

tis sad but tis true..

Jayne.x.

[Epic]

I think the northern scene has long been largely a revival scene just regurgitating the same records. It's become largely what I hoped it would never become - a nostalgia scene like the rock and roll scene was years ago with Teddy boys, drainpipes and silly dancing.

Seem to remember Ian Levine saying the same thing - and that was thirty years ago!!!!!!!!!!

[Steve G]

Seem to remember Ian Levine saying the same thing - and that was thirty years ago!!!!!!!!!!

Yes but it was irrelevant then as we discovered / broke many thousands of record in the post Levine era.

[Guest Simon]

Thankfully continental Europe offers such a fresh perspective where more new sounds can be played without some old codger shouting in your ear "You got Barbara McNair mate?".

So true, just got back from Perpignan & it was so refreshing, maybe it's because i was in a Foreign country & it was an exciting new venture but i must admit the tuneage was definitely refreshingly different to a lot of what i've heard in the UK in recent years.

I think maybe the UK has too much baggage & Foreign destinations can come at it from a different angle, saying that there is still some great dos going on in the UK, SHS, Middleton, Burnley, Soul Revolution etc.

Simon

[Dave]

I think the northern scene has long been largely a revival scene just regurgitating the same records. It's become largely what I hoped it would never become - a nostalgia scene like the rock and roll scene was years ago with Teddy boys, drainpipes and silly dancing. Perhaps it's not that surprising as the music itself is largely so old now. As this revival scene has grown, so has the baloney that goes with it - clocks, northern soul greeting cards, Frank Wilson keyrings etc - all part of this "NS is a way of life" nonsense.

To me it's always been about the music first.....but as time has gone on, fewer and fewer have been interested in expanding new horizons, hearing new sounds etc. (well apart from Duffy!). Yes it's partly an age thing, and also partly true that most civilians don't tend to expand their musical horizons either (grew up liking Quo, you probably still have their greatest hits in your car CD player). However the soul scene was supposed to be different, fresh, exciting, different, cool.

It's a real damning indictment about the state of the NS scene that the forward thinking progressive venues just about get enough in to make it viable a few times a year and even some of them struggle. By contrast in large parts of the country you by an old rig, put on a Wigan oldies night and you get 350+ in all clapping to the breaks etc.

Too many DJ's, too many venues, tackiness and stagnating musical taste - all true I am afraid.

Thankfully continental Europe offers such a fresh perspective where more new sounds can be played without some old codger shouting in your ear "You got Barbara McNair mate?".

Steve, you've summarised the answer to this thread, and others like "too many chiefs.." in one post.

On another thread, Ian D theorised about starting a regular, central nighter with the most progressive DJs as residents. Sounds a great idea, but it wouldn't work for the reasons you've given: mainly there wouldn't be enough interested because 90% of the scene only want a nostalgia based over 40s disco!

[Pete S]

the tuneage

You're banned!

[Steve L]

I think the northern scene has long been largely a revival scene just regurgitating the same records. It's become largely what I hoped it would never become - a nostalgia scene like the rock and roll scene was years ago with Teddy boys, drainpipes and silly dancing. Perhaps it's not that surprising as the music itself is largely so old now. As this revival scene has grown, so has the baloney that goes with it - clocks, northern soul greeting cards, Frank Wilson keyrings etc - all part of this "NS is a way of life" nonsense.

To me it's always been about the music first.....but as time has gone on, fewer and fewer have been interested in expanding new horizons, hearing new sounds etc. (well apart from Duffy!). Yes it's partly an age thing, and also partly true that most civilians don't tend to expand their musical horizons either (grew up liking Quo, you probably still have their greatest hits in your car CD player). However the soul scene was supposed to be different, fresh, exciting, different, cool.

It's a real damning indictment about the state of the NS scene that the forward thinking progressive venues just about get enough in to make it viable a few times a year and even some of them struggle. By contrast in large parts of the country you by an old rig, put on a Wigan oldies night and you get 350+ in all clapping to the breaks etc.

Too many DJ's, too many venues, tackiness and stagnating musical taste - all true I am afraid.

Thankfully continental Europe offers such a fresh perspective where more new sounds can be played without some old codger shouting in your ear "You got Barbara McNair mate?".

Spot on - check out the news about DFOK calling it a day.

Went down there to the 1st anniversary last month, top notch progressive thinking music policy - with about 25 people in - criminal

[Guest Trevski]

The whole world is dumbing down, even the BBC. Lunchtime news- "For sale today, a rare painting by Monet, expected to fetch several millions" A rare painting by Monet? Of course its bloody rare! He didn't knock out 50 copies of 'waterlilies' did he! Oh look, DaVinci did a couple of hundred 'Mona Lisas' They are one-offs! To have to tell us it's rare is a bleedin' insult to ones intelligence!

Edited June 24, 2008 by Trevski

[Russ Vickers]

So whats the solution..........wasnt there a big meeting in the 8ts of some sort, where the major players of the time got thier respective heads together & thrashed out a way ahead with regard to promotions/venues etc.............would it help ?????........& what are we trying to acheive...........I suspect that the local soul night crowd will always do thier thing at their local do, so is the solution to disregard this part of the scene to some extent, after all traditionally, the local do was were you went before setting off for ya nighter or the place were the youngsters went for thier first taste of Rare Soul, before attending Nighters, but really you didnt expect that much, as it was the Nighters were you generally heard the top gear. If you take the 'soul night' crowd who never travel to Nighters out of the equation, then you probably get a better picture of the true Rare Soul Scene & the numbers of potential punters your gonna get at a nighter, certain types of soul night give a false impression of just how popular the NS scene is. The 'Real' Rare Soul scene, is still quite small comparitively speaking, when you remove the more commercial promotions & thier punters who dont travel.

I perssonally dont think there is an answer, punters will decide with thier feet & regardless we'll have a scene of sorts probably forever, whether its the kinda scene that the true beleivers wanna be part of is debatable tho'................time will tell, but personally Im into this for the long haul & I'll always find my bit of soul heaven some where out there.

Russ

Edited June 25, 2008 by Russ Vickers

[Steve G]

So whats the solution..........wasnt there a big meeting in the 8ts of some sort, where the major players of the time got thier respective heads together & thrashed out a way ahead with regard to promotions/venues etc.............would it help Russ

Russ nice thought, but there are too many snouts in the trough now - too many diverse interests and total fragmentation to bring it all together. The opportunity - if it was ever there - has been lost, and what we are left with in the UK for Northern soul is a revival scene that is to all intents and purposes irrelevant (unless you want to relive your youth) and a dwindling number of forward thinkers scattered far and wide who want to take the scene forward. Because they're the pasionate ones - rather than the money grabbers - they will continue with their passion - with little / no new blood, over time, declining attendances, and eventually mergers etc. until we get probably 4 quality events a year which the remainder of us left will all make a bloody good effort to go to.

[Spacehopper]

some good points...especially mischief,russ and des.....

heres my two pennies worth...

ive never been to a night that was ruined by youngsters....in fact i cant remember the last time i went to a shit night !....maybe it cos im down here in the sw...???

yes there are youngsters at some the soul nights in bristol who havnt got a clue what its about...most stand around watching the dancefloor occasionally having a go on the floor and normally giving up...some of these "duffies" may come back and get bitten by the bug and become the next generation of soulies most will move on and get into the next best thing...they wont change a thing in the long run...

its funny back in 1990 when i left the scooter scene and started djing reggae i went through much the same thing...i was playing this new style of reggae called dancehall/ragga and living in norwich where the only thing people wanted to hear was bob marley and ub40 !...a few years back shabba,sean paul were in the charrts and ragga was popular...it got watered down for the charts ...now you never hear it.....but down here in bristol its still poular in the undergrond clubs....

there are new discoveries out there....des ,you played one at cheltenham covered it up tongue in cheek as judy street...had a peek at the decks and ive not seen it anywhere inc manships guide...wicked tune....but....if people wanna dance to some of their faves you have to live and let live,there must be room for a mix...its a shame if venues that are "forward thinking" close....we dissapoint some of my small crowd at go go children in bristol cos i wont play my mel britt bootleg or an overplayed snake and maybe thay will not come back...i hope not,we still have a great night and were getting them into under £50ers theyve never heard BUT we still play some from the top 500 they can sing along to aswell !!....

i think its history repeating as someone has already said ,its just weve got an internet to moan about it this time.....which could make it worse

im sure back in the mid/late 70s there were ex twited wheel/torch goers at wigan complaining about all the youngsters and some of the music played there....lets face it even if you dont like them you gota admit duffy and ami has more soulful than wigans ovation ,gary lewis and hawaii 5-0 !!

last note....as mischief said ,lets try be more positive...we love this scene/music or we woudnt be on here every day !!

[Epic]

Don't think dumbing down is a new phenomenon to the scene.

Huge TV & Newspaper coverage of this "underground" scene was brought to the masses over 30 years ago.

Tailor made records - badges - record labels cashing in - they were all around in the seventies.

As regards people voting with their feet I think you will find the more "commercial" the venue the larger the attendance. Of course people on here will argue that the attendees of thes gigs aren't "real soulies"(whatever that means).

The scene is not perfect - it never has been - until something else is available that is better we have to live with it - warts & all - probably best just getting on with it & perhaps ENJOYING it !!!

[KevH]

The whole world is dumbing down, even the BBC. Lunchtime news- "For sale today, a rare painting by Monet, expected to fetch several millions" A rare painting by Monet? Of course its bloody rare! He didn't knock out 50 copies of 'waterlilies' did he! Oh look, DaVinci did a couple of hundred 'Mona Lisas' They are one-offs! To have to tell us it's rare is a bleedin' insult to ones intelligence!

the sad thing is Trevski,is that some young 'uns HAVE to be told these things cos they were never taught them in school!!!!!!.

History,Art,Classical music???.Forget those subjects.

Kids nowadays don't know their trivia .

[Guest Modern Skip Tone]

Personally cant think of much sadder than goin into a record bar that has been "disneyfied" and no longer sells records but has lots of Northern tat, do people really want to buy Northern Soul Clocks, Keep The Faith Earrings and Wigan Mugs with matching coasters instead of records and cd s. When did it become more important to look the part rather than just being a part (of a brilliant rare soul scene).

Very good point Catriona be it "disneyfied or northernised" who buys this marketing tack, certainly not the rare soul regulars.

[Paul-s]

I think the northern scene has long been largely a revival scene just regurgitating the same records. It's become largely what I hoped it would never become - a nostalgia scene like the rock and roll scene was years ago with Teddy boys, drainpipes and silly dancing. Perhaps it's not that surprising as the music itself is largely so old now. As this revival scene has grown, so has the baloney that goes with it - clocks, northern soul greeting cards, Frank Wilson keyrings etc - all part of this "NS is a way of life" nonsense.

To me it's always been about the music first.....but as time has gone on, fewer and fewer have been interested in expanding new horizons, hearing new sounds etc. (well apart from Duffy!). Yes it's partly an age thing, and also partly true that most civilians don't tend to expand their musical horizons either (grew up liking Quo, you probably still have their greatest hits in your car CD player). However the soul scene was supposed to be different, fresh, exciting, different, cool.

It's a real damning indictment about the state of the NS scene that the forward thinking progressive venues just about get enough in to make it viable a few times a year and even some of them struggle. By contrast in large parts of the country you by an old rig, put on a Wigan oldies night and you get 350+ in all clapping to the breaks etc.

Too many DJ's, too many venues, tackiness and stagnating musical taste - all true I am afraid.

Thankfully continental Europe offers such a fresh perspective where more new sounds can be played without some old codger shouting in your ear "You got Barbara McNair mate?".

PERFECTLY PUT

[Guest Simon]

some of these "duffies" may come back and get bitten by the bug and become the next generation of soulies most will move on and get into the next best thing

"Duffies" what a great word!

Meaning = Young people who get into the scene through the singer Duffy, who think she's contemporary NS & Ian Levine's new CD is also NS.

Simon

[billysbag]

The whole world is dumbing down, even the BBC. Lunchtime news- "For sale today, a rare painting by Monet, expected to fetch several millions" A rare painting by Monet? Of course its bloody rare! He didn't knock out 50 copies of 'waterlilies' did he!

i dont know about that.ive got one of them waterlilies jobbies. bought it down the local market,dozens of em.

[Guest]

laughing, sorry was a sort of rushed post

yep

Lowest Common Denomiator

its like every week see something else that hits a new low

be it crap events, cheesey cover bands, sh*t e promoters, fans geting ripped off, tacky cash-ins, mainstream media and all the rest

my point exactly...

World = 100% shite + 1% Classic shit

...especialy in the music business

100% is bound to go away

1% will allways be there

All You Have To Do is Hold On !    

[Guest andrew bin]

if we exported Doom Gloom and Misery we would all be millionaires

[pikeys dog]

"95% of everything is shit"

Theodore Sturgeon.

[Guest]

"95% of everything is shit"

Theodore Sturgeon.

What an optimist !

[Guest]

"I don't worry 'bout a thing

Cos I know nothing's gonna be all right"

Mose Allison.

from 'The Whole Nine Yards' soundtrack

Edited June 25, 2008 by xsp

[Spacehopper]

cant remember the author but im pretty sure one of the top paperbacks the other year was "is it me or is everything today just shit " or something like that.....then theres the kaiser chiefs single from there last album "everything is average nowadays" ...its not just us !!!!

[Steve G]

cant remember the author but im pretty sure one of the top paperbacks the other year was "is it me or is everything today just shit " or something like that.....then theres the kaiser chiefs single from there last album "everything is average nowadays" ...its not just us !!!!

So what are you saying? Nothing to worry about? We shouldn't be pessimistic because the northern scene is OK?

I think not.

[Little-stevie]

Been going to events in Europe and around the country for many years and find plenty that i like.. I always like to travel around and see new places, meet new people etc, that keeps it fresh for me..

There are still plenty folk out there who want to keep it fresh and moving.. The trouble is they are spread around the country and Europe and not able to co-ordinate getting events organised together on a regular basis maybe...

Its a nice thought to have certain djs/ promoters coming together to put on a shows but there lies the problem.. If some djs/promoters don't get things as they want, they will break away to put on another event, law of the jungle..

Still plenty of good nights out for me when you look at the soul events calendar.. Get it while you can..

[Pete S]

cant remember the author but im pretty sure one of the top paperbacks the other year was "is it me or is everything today just shit " or something like that.....

I've got that book, and it's shit. £5 from Zavvi.

[Guest James Trouble]

So what are you saying? Nothing to worry about? We shouldn't be pessimistic because the northern scene is OK?

I think not.

Hey Steve, you been to 100 Club this century? It's a hip and happening place, man. I don't take DJ bookings on 100 Club night. It makes me happy. Maybe you should refuse bookings at certain places that you know suck, and only go to the places that make you happy? Whether you are DJing or not...

Is that the way forward? Only go to the good places, and not DJ for the sake of DJing? Going to a good place is better than DJing at a poor place?

Are folk more interested in rubbing their own ego than just belonging? Or are people's egos not big enough for them to be able to do that?

[Guest]

Hey Steve, you been to 100 Club this century? It's a hip and happening place, man. I don't take DJ bookings on 100 Club night. It makes me happy. Maybe you should refuse bookings at certain places that you know suck, and only go to the places that make you happy? Whether you are DJing or not...

Is that the way forward? Only go to the good places, and not DJ for the sake of DJing? Going to a good place is better than DJing at a poor place?

Are folk more interested in rubbing their own ego than just belonging? Or are people's egos not big enough for them to be able to do that?

yes. absobloodylutely!. That would sort it out...

Jayne.x.

[Dave Moore]

Hey Steve, you been to 100 Club this century? It's a hip and happening place, man. I don't take DJ bookings on 100 Club night. It makes me happy. Maybe you should refuse bookings at certain places that you know suck, and only go to the places that make you happy? Whether you are DJing or not...

Is that the way forward? Only go to the good places, and not DJ for the sake of DJing? Going to a good place is better than DJing at a poor place?

Are folk more interested in rubbing their own ego than just belonging? Or are people's egos not big enough for them to be able to do that?

Kinnel!

Found myself agreeing 100% with JT!

Need to go lie down now.

[Guest Simon]

Hey Steve, you been to 100 Club this century? It's a hip and happening place, man. I don't take DJ bookings on 100 Club night. It makes me happy. Maybe you should refuse bookings at certain places that you know suck, and only go to the places that make you happy? Whether you are DJing or not...

Is that the way forward? Only go to the good places, and not DJ for the sake of DJing? Going to a good place is better than DJing at a poor place?

Are folk more interested in rubbing their own ego than just belonging? Or are people's egos not big enough for them to be able to do that?

Like it James, like it a lot!

Simon

[mischief]

if we exported Doom Gloom and Misery we would all be millionaires

I thought Wales did

[Steve G]

Hey Steve, you been to 100 Club this century? It's a hip and happening place, man. I don't take DJ bookings on 100 Club night. It makes me happy. Maybe you should refuse bookings at certain places that you know suck, and only go to the places that make you happy? Whether you are DJing or not...

Is that the way forward? Only go to the good places, and not DJ for the sake of DJing? Going to a good place is better than DJing at a poor place?

Are folk more interested in rubbing their own ego than just belonging? Or are people's egos not big enough for them to be able to do that?

Corrr very deep that. Yes have been to the 100 this century, but don't go regularly. On the DJ front I am restricting bookings these days, but it's not about that. Been to plenty of nights as a "punter" which on paper should be good (new music, good DJ's who aren't afraid to mix it up) only to find wishy washy attendance. And that's my beef - not enough support for the good venues. Too much nostalgia. Declining interest in new sounds, over indulgence in the tried and tested, and in many cases just plain boring. Steve

[Simon M]

I now understand ( after a few years back on this scene) how anything new , different or wiggly can really destroy someones nostalgic trip and therefore their enjoyment !

Edited June 26, 2008 by Simon M

[Guest]

I now understand how ( after a few years back on this scene) anything new , different or wiggly can really destroy someones nostalgic trip !

Can't say i've noticed anything "new different or wiggly" on any of your playlists Simon.

The nostalgic trip doesn't just cover wigan, the mecca or the torch - stafford / rock city veterans are just as guilty i.m.o ( am just as guilty myself!)

Derek

[Simon M]

Can't say i've noticed anything "new different or wiggly" on any of your playlists Simon.

The nostalgic trip doesn't just cover wigan, the mecca or the torch - stafford / rock city veterans are just as guilty i.m.o ( am just as guilty myself!)

Derek

You'll have to look harder Derek . Ive found quite a few newies on the net ya know

ps. wiggly = a type of punter

Edited June 26, 2008 by Simon M

[Guest gordon russell]

Funny old world ,when I come on this site and point out this stuff everyone and their mother has a go at me,when MIKE asks the question you all fall over yourselves to basically agree with him oh well!.Good points from Steve G,Russ Vickers and Chalky.This scene started with THE WHEEL an ALLNIGHTER it carried on with other nighters including the TORCH,CASINO,YATEand many more that were all pretty damn good.We now have with the advent of middle age....THE soul nite,as I've said on numourous occasions theses are mainly attended by folk who like a bit of a jig,few pints......they were never on the scene and they're not now,hence you can play any old crap on any old format,boots c'ds ect ect,cause the punters don't give a toss.The region I live in is full of SUCH places.The promoters/dj's are only in it for the cash/ego and they don't have a clue,We should feel lucky that a lot of these folk don't turn up at the allnighters cause there ain't that many copies of ''ghost in my house to go around'' lol . So rather than havin a go at me,ask yourself this question...why does'nt the promoter of my local venue GO TO ANY OTHER VENUE.....ANYWHERE....EVER....they have absolutely no desire to be part of this scene and no desire to hear newer or underplayed tunes..Heres another thought for you if all the local venues shut down do you for one moment think all the people that attend these places would drive a few miles to another venue....of course they would'nt they would'nt bother and thats a fact.....so we should disregard them. A friend of mine told me he uses the members gallery photos to decide where to go or not,If he can't see anyone he vaugely knows at a place....he stays away.My conclusion!!....the ALLNIGHTER scene (what this scene is really all about from day one) is alive and really kicking from THE 100 CLUB in the south to the awesome nighters in LANCASHIRE/YORKSHIRE region. This is where the scene started and this is where the scene IS NOW. You can walk into any nighter and it is just great to see the same...children of the night that you see all the time,wether you know them or not...It's these people that are the stalwarts of the scene,so as others have said give it time and the rest of em will go to whence they came.....

[KevH]

Funny old world ,when I come on this site and point out this stuff everyone and their mother has a go at me,when MIKE asks the question you all fall over yourselves to basically agree with him oh well!.Good points from Steve G,Russ Vickers and Chalky.This scene started with THE WHEEL an ALLNIGHTER it carried on with other nighters including the TORCH,CASINO,YATEand many more that were all pretty damn good.We now have with the advent of middle age....THE soul nite,as I've said on numourous occasions theses are mainly attended by folk who like a bit of a jig,few pints......they were never on the scene and they're not now,hence you can play any old crap on any old format,boots c'ds ect ect,cause the punters don't give a toss.The region I live in is full of SUCH places.The promoters/dj's are only in it for the cash/ego and they don't have a clue,We should feel lucky that a lot of these folk don't turn up at the allnighters cause there ain't that many copies of ''ghost in my house to go around'' lol . So rather than havin a go at me,ask yourself this question...why does'nt the promoter of my local venue GO TO ANY OTHER VENUE.....ANYWHERE....EVER....they have absolutely no desire to be part of this scene and no desire to hear newer or underplayed tunes..Heres another thought for you if all the local venues shut down do you for one moment think all the people that attend these places would drive a few miles to another venue....of course they would'nt they would'nt bother and thats a fact.....so we should disregard them. A friend of mine told me he uses the members gallery photos to decide where to go or not,If he can't see anyone he vaugely knows at a place....he stays away.My conclusion!!....the ALLNIGHTER scene (what this scene is really all about from day one) is alive and really kicking from THE 100 CLUB in the south to the awesome nighters in LANCASHIRE/YORKSHIRE region. This is where the scene started and this is where the scene IS NOW. You can walk into any nighter and it is just great to see the same...children of the night that you see all the time,wether you know them or not...It's these people that are the stalwarts of the scene,so as others have said give it time and the rest of em will go to whence they came.....

Hi Terry,there probably is enough copies of Ghost in my house to go round.

The children of the nite are scary people.The "advent of the middle ages".

Witchfinder General? .

[Guest gordon russell]

sorry forgot one more thing,how many of you remember..the KING of the wannabes...sooty from cambridge,in like a lion, out like a lamb.WHY?.....because like a lot of todays promoter/dj types,he wanted to be somebody on this scene without being part of this scene.After 3 or 4 years he cleared off never to be seen again....now where have I seen tht happen before????

[Guest gordon russell]

Hi Terry,there probably is enough copies of Ghost in my house to go round.

The children of the nite are scary people.The "advent of the middle ages".

Witchfinder General? .

hello kev,how you do'in.glad you enjoyed the burnley experience

[Tricky]

spot on soulful bob, agree with everything you say.just a point about dkof i was at the last one and i thought because cleethorpes was close people were saving pennies? however have since heard that some people did not like the actual new venue which is a shame.on the local do front it is always the same around here.dj at my do and i will dj at yours with no one venturing outside the county.crap!!!!!!!

attendances at venues relying on travellers may also be suffering due to the cost of fuel.its no joke filling your motor up twice a week if your paying for it yourselves.

anyways don,t crucify soulful bobs opinions as he would never knowingly goad,antagonise or piss you off intentionally.he actually cries himself to sleep some nights.

[Guest gordon russell]

spot on soulful bob, agree with everything you say.just a point about dkof i was at the last one and i thought because cleethorpes was close people were saving pennies? however have since heard that some people did not like the actual new venue which is a shame.on the local do front it is always the same around here.dj at my do and i will dj at yours with no one venturing outside the county.crap!!!!!!!

attendances at venues relying on travellers may also be suffering due to the cost of fuel.its no joke filling your motor up twice a week if your paying for it yourselves.

anyways don,t crucify soulful bobs opinions as he would never knowingly goad,antagonise or piss you off intentionally.he actually cries himself to sleep some nights.

HELLO TREV, I like places were I don't have to go to sleep........l

[Guest kev such]

I have read this and inumerous other likewise threads on soulsource and "for christ sake WTF"

How ever much we bitch or slate events, DJ's or promoters. The fact of the matter is that the "SCENE" is no longer a totally exclusive underground movement, i mean i dont remember nighters being held in Isreal etc in the 70's(do i remember the 70's? ok the 80's then).

Wether we choose, Oldies, Modern, RnB, Progressive, Rare, Upfront, Classic, Crossover, Motown, Y2K, Club Classics, Detroit only, Philly Sound, Etc Etc.... The truth is is that the vast majority of people attending Soul events are BACK into after a break to raise families etc...

I really honestly do not think that any promoter takes on the task of starting an event to make an easy fast buck or to get their name in lights, if they do then more fool them because it'll never happen. I firmly believe that Soul music, whichever genre is the only music (i know of) where the feeling for it is unexplainable. All country music, rock music, club music sounds the same, but the music that WE ALL love is always different. An hour set can easily be played and each tune would be different from the last, that single reason knocks me for six. The other AMAZING point is that we are always learning and hearing new stuff. Im 40 yrs and a few months ago i introduced a DJ to a tune that they hadnt heard and they had been on the scene since the late 60's. Once or twice i have sat in Glen Bellamy's front room and played a tune to him that he hadn't heard before, admittedly this IS a rare thing where Glen is concerned. But even so it doesnt matter who you are or how long you have been on The Scene no-one surely knows it all.

Any local event is local to somebody and invariably clashes etc will happen and some events will fair better than others. But should an event not receive a good turnout etc... Thats NOT necessarliy the fault of others events, or the fact that us Z listers (as coined) have decided to get an ego boost and only get their mates to do spots.

Any DJ etc has to start somewhere and rare and progressive soul scene surely wouldnt be where it is if the said DJ's hadnt been given a break somewhere to play the tunes they liked, and thought that the wider audience should hear it to. As time evolves the DJ (whoever they are) will hear different tunes and go in whichever direction they choose, be it popular or not.

There may be too many events on nowadays and unfortunately not enough Saturdays in the year to go around, but when i KEEP on reading that local promoters etc... are stuck in the past and that its the same old same old, the scene has moved on considerably from the Nighters only time and harping on at an inordinate length again and again about Nighters are the only place to be, who is really stuck in the past.

I thoroughly enjoy the Soul Scene still and hope i do for a considerable time to come but i do believe that by slating certain elements (whatever the reason, local, same old same old, Z listers, new uneducated promoters) only alienates people from what others are trying to bring to the masses rather than the few.

Still personally it doesnt matter whats said i hope i never lose sight of why i got into the music or forget to feel the way i do when i rush home to open the latest tune i have bought and play it on my steroe for the first time (to me) and think "i cant wait to play that to somebody"

Kind regards

Kev SUCH

Edited June 26, 2008 by kev such

[Dave]

Hey Steve, you been to 100 Club this century? It's a hip and happening place, man. I don't take DJ bookings on 100 Club night. It makes me happy. Maybe you should refuse bookings at certain places that you know suck, and only go to the places that make you happy? Whether you are DJing or not...

Is that the way forward? Only go to the good places, and not DJ for the sake of DJing? Going to a good place is better than DJing at a poor place?

Are folk more interested in rubbing their own ego than just belonging? Or are people's egos not big enough for them to be able to do that?

Very good point mate, but don't say it in East Anglia or Midlands!

Kev is trying to warn you what you'll come up against:

Witchfinder General? .

PS. Along the same lines what's with soul night promoters who hire a top all nighter DJ then put him on in in a poor time slot or only give him 45 minutes? Do they use the the big names to lure a captive audience to listen to their own pissy little collections?

How about giving a top guest two hours and cutting out one of the four all-got-the-same-records locals?

[pogo paul]

Very good point Catriona be it "disneyfied or northernised" who buys this marketing tack, certainly not the rare soul regulars.

All these books published,have IMHO severly damaged the scene as well.The biggest culprit

"The Northern Soul Top 100",ruining playlists,educating people,dictating prices,taking the hard

work,years of effort and soul out of the scene!

Bring on the arc!

[Steve G]

How about giving a top guest two hours and cutting out one of the four all-got-the-same-records locals?

Good point.

[Paul R]

I don't normally add to threads like this because I am not a regular attendee of soul nights anymore.

The whole scene appears to be split between the oldies & the newies brigade, i.e. the nostalgia people(like me) and the forward thinkers at the cutting edge of the scene. going back 20, 30, and even 40 years ago, generally, there was one or maybe 2 main allnighters, the lifeblood of the scene. we didn't have the money, means to travel, but travel we did. During the week we attended soulnights. These generally were not the cutting edge nights, although some did play the top sounds either by emidiscs or by having the top DJs being in residence.

BY reading the threads on here, apart from the oldies nights, most promoters & wannabe DJs want to be at the forefront, playing whatever they deem to be the next big sound, or their own personal veiw of what everyone else should love. There are literally hundreds of nights throughout the year clashing dates and having 2 in close proximety on the same night. No wonder these newies(for want of a better term) nights are playing to 30 people on occasion. Potentially there are millions of people of all ages available to suddenly get into the rare soul scene, but realistically very few will. Some co-ordination of the promoters is needed to ensure that the top couple of nights in the country, playing the latests discoveries are packed to the rafters, rather than 200 soul nights and each playing to 20 people.

To some people, it may be a sad fact, but oldies nights are packed and newies nights aren't. The comments about the scene not being underground anymore are crap. make the cutting edge nights the best kept secret in the world. The best part of the scene in the 60's, 70's & 80's was that we knew that we were part of something special. So newies people Breakaway(sorry that is at least 3 oldies) and form your own scene, but you are not allowed to play anything that has been played before 'cause that's an oldie!

OH, and keep the faith!

Paul