June 18th John Manship Auction Prices

[Kev Cane]

I bought a copy of the Lee Fields a few months ago, after hearing Butch play it....however when I got it home, and played it a few times, I wasn't keen....so it's been sat in the box unplayed......if anyone wants it, for a reasonable price, please PM me....I'll never play it...

Phil.

Turn it over man, just like Kev H says,"Tyra,s Song" is an absolute sublime piece of mid-tempo soul, in fact this is the side that has been getting played in the N.E for 20 years or more to further answer Kev,s question about having the bollocks to play t,other side. Glad Blake emphasised the point about the Florida Spiritulaires, amongst the Lee Fields mayhem an absolute gem of a record has quietly slipped through the net, further emphasising the sad fact of people lacking the vision to find something fresh for themselves cos here is a prime example of a record just crying out for DJ airplay, I paid £80 for mine and don,t regret it for one second, just a shame really that a lot of people are missing out on a fantastic untapped record.

Kev

[Marc Forrest]

Wow, you`ve seen that ? My hats off to Qunivy..dunno how many on here / of us would have been that consequent

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/Bobby-K...ara-t75068.html

[Ted Massey]

Wow, you`ve seen that ? My hats off to Qunivy..dunno how many on here / of us would have been that consequent

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/Bobby-K...ara-t75068.html

Wonder if the buyer had the initials JM

[Quinvy]

Wonder if the buyer had the initials JM

No he didn't Ted. It's gone to a good home for a fair price...it's not my thing, but thank goodness we are all different.....vive la differance, as they say in Barnoldswick....

Phil.

[Ted Massey]

[grant]

Top DJs maybe but obviously shite at finding records - what was wrong with any of the multitude of copies to have come up for sale in the past couple of years, then...too cheap at 30% that price?

just heard Butch played Tony Clarke - Landslide the other week at a do, i'll start taking offers for mine now @ £500 min.bid

[Ted Massey]

just heard Butch played Tony Clarke - Landslide the other week at a do, i'll start taking offers for mine now @ £500 min.bid

you would not be far of if its a w/d

[KevH]

"All the "Top" DJs Soul Sam, Mick H, Ginger, Butch, Ian Wright etc, etc have all bid and won records on the auction or bought great tunes in the last 21 days. IMHO they are TOP DJs who have earned the right, over many years to be classed as such.

They are also 5 very nice guys, which also makes them TOP.

As for the price for they may or may not have lifted Lee Fields to, I can reveal 4 of them most probably would have given me trades of spare or unwanted records.

4 are TOP "Old School" DJs who have serious buying power with us, because they all have huge amounts of surplus vinyl that is great. Thus if they need a record they will go heavy, as in real terms most of the time the records they trade-in cost a fraction of what I give them in "Store credit".

James, when you can clear out a cupboard in your former "school staff room" or "your locker in the city" of 6,000+ rare soul 45s and drop them on my office floor. You'll have enough "store credit" you go a little wild...if you fancy it.

PS you are certainly dead-right on this point. None of the above mentioned are ".. cool as fook, heavy, heavy soul DJs " but then again I don't think any of them are trying to be...that's why they are TOP! "

Come on John, Wrighty and Butch did not bid any where near £750 on Lee Fields if at all, don't be daft, that's a lie to imply that they may have. Sam may have, and that's understandable, he DJs a lot, and enjoys playing to the soul night crowd and probably gets requests to play it every weekend. But I'd be surprised if he paid £750 for it as he would have been looking at the £50 copies many times over in the past couple of years. And if he didnt buy it then, but is buying it now to play, well, sorry Sam, that's pretty poncy and I'd ask him to his face if he played it now why he didn't buy it when it was £50 but is buying it now that Butch has made it popular? And if Sam didn't bid any where near £750 for it, John, you are wrong to use his name here to justify "three top DJs".

Maybe Mick bid it up, maybe he won it, read my comment about a collector may have missed out on it, and thought 'sod it' I'll win it because I can. Which is cool, he's a rich eccentric who drives around in Vauxhall when he could have a Bentley if he sold a few records. But I can guarantee, he isn't buying it because he wants to fill a dance floor with a tune that BUTCH broke.

Ginger may well have won it, and he's a great guy, but he's the popular choice of the masses. He's hardly breaking new ground, when was the last 'new' tune he broke? I mean, seriously, he's a top guy, but he's playing Elipsis because it's popular. If he liked that sound why isn't he pulling out other jazz funk tunes to spin like the likes of Sam, Butch and Mick do? Because he's a pop' DJ who gets his buzz from ramming the floor with popular tracks. And he's good at it. But for me, well, read my above comments...

And John, your '6000 records in the cupboard gives you a little store credit' comment, that's a bit mincy. Whether you have a million quid in records under the bed, or a million quid in the bank in cash, it's the same thing. Trades are the same as cash. The value of something is not what the person paid for it, it's what they can sell it for. That logic you are using is a nice little dealer trick to get records out of collectors who may not realise, or be in a position to realise the value of records that the dealer may be able to.

And I agree with Quinvy, but hey, this Lee Fields situation is a little extreme, even more so than the Johnny Howard, Jo Jama, Hamilton Movement etc, as there have been many chances to buy it, and some very recently. The question, and it is an uncomfortable one for some to answer, is why is it so much now, when there have been many, many copies available recently. These "top DJs" that John talks about, should surely be breaking new ground now, rather than chasing Butch's coat tails? That's the point. I also refer you to my last sentence in my first post re: rich eccentric collector who may have missed it and now just thinks "sod it, I'll buy it now because I can, I'm fed up missing out on copies 'cheap'".

No, I stand by my comments with direct reference to this Lee Fields auction. They are only with reference to this Lee Fields auction, as it is an extreme case and an interesting case, and asks questions that may be uncomfortable, but important questions none the less...

Is it something to be celebrated, like John seems to in his auction descriptions ("the power of the northern soul DJ" etc etc), or is it something to be derided and laughed at?

hi James,you're missing the point. Butch did not break Lee Fields .People think he did cos they didn't know it before that.

Butch will be the first to admit he revitalised it cos it was right for the scene NOW.

Which just goes to prove how far ahead of the game Levine,Searling,Curtis,JM,and may others were, back in the day.

[Flanny]

Well, quite. But it's in the context of this auction alone Steve, as has clearly been stated. Why would a "top DJ" pay £750 for it when it has been available on a number of occasions for a fraction of that price. It's not as if it's been kept a secret, is it.

And of course it is a good record. But this is in the context of a £750 auction compared to the price it has regularly been sold at.

And it is 'pop', it's a popular record. And it's popularity and the desire for a DJ to buy a popular record and fill the florr with a popular in vogue record is what has created this mad dash to own a copy at all costs. Is this to be celebrated, or derided?

It is in no way, as has clearly been stated, a criticism of the record itself. So best not try to twist it into that, hey

POPULARITY IS MEDIOCRATY

Edited June 20, 2008 by Flanny

[Guest ruffsounds]

I think that the problem is that the likes of Butch/Mick H/ Ginger and the rest always seem to get the credit for these sounds and nobody else finds them or plays them apart from the elite few, but imho the dj's at the local do's find just as many records but dont get the credit or the gratitude that the (Elite Club) seems to get even though there is still lots of great stuff being found or re-found out there and some rare stuff at that.

As somebody said earlier in the thread lots of stuff out there better to be played that dont cost the earth or is it because they are not big money tunes that some things never get mentioned in Butch/Mick H and the likes playlists.

Is it now all becoming a bit elitest in what people have to buy and play or can we all just go out and have a good time without thinking i wonder if the dj is gonna play Butch or Mick H's latest finds.

I for one am up for the good night out not worrying that i have not heard the latest big priced tune that everyones talking about.

cheers Ralph

[Ian Dewhirst]

hi James,you're missing the point. Butch did not break Lee Fields .People think he did cos they didn't know it before that.

Butch will be the first to admit he revitalised it cos it was right for the scene NOW.

Which just goes to prove how far ahead of the game Levine,Searling,Curtis,JM,and may others were, back in the day.

You beat me the punch Kev!

I can clearly remember Lee Fields being a floor-filler @ Cleethorpes and a biggish record for me and most of the Cleethorpes DJ's at the time. So revitalised is exactly right!

Ian D

[Guest James Trouble]

You beat me the punch Kev!

I can clearly remember Lee Fields being a floor-filler @ Cleethorpes and a biggish record for me and most of the Cleethorpes DJ's at the time. So revitalised is exactly right!

Ian D

That's irrelevant in the perspective of this thread and this record IMO. Broke/revitalised/resurrected/refurbished//whatever...

Kev, are you trying to say that you think this price rise in the Lee Fields is not down to Butch but down to it being spun a few times in the 70s and all of a sudden these "top DJs" have suddenly remembered it and have jumped all over John Manship's auction. But if you're picking bones, then fair enough, pick away, man.

Broke/resurrected/whatever, it was down to Butch and the "top DJs" now wanting to chase one of his big spins.

The price of the Lee Fields has gone from £50 and not impossible to get hold of and well talked about to £750, and probably ironically easier to get hold of now because of the high price, in a matter of few months/a year or so, not because it was played a few times in the 70s, it's because Butch has broken it on today's scene. The reason for the price rise is at least 50%, probably more, the desperate clambering of these "top DJs" to get the latest in vogue sound at all costs.

Maybe I'm wrong, I don't think I am though and if you think that's a good or bad thing, it's personal opinion. Personally I'd like to see more DJs trying to fit more interesting sounds into their 10-15 record sets than pay seemingly over the odds to be able to play out records that Butch has been hammering for the past year or so.

Edited June 20, 2008 by James Trouble

[Ian Dewhirst]

That's irrelevant in the perspective of this thread and this record IMO. Broke/revitalised/resurrected/refurbished//whatever...

Kev, are you trying to say that you think this price rise in the Lee Fields is not down to Butch but down to it being spun a few times in the 70s and all of a sudden these "top DJs" have suddenly remembered it and have jumped all over John Manship's auction. But if you're picking bones, then fair enough, pick away, man.

Broke/resurrected/whatever, it was down to Butch and the "top DJs" now wanting to chase one of his big spins.

The price of the Lee Fields has gone from £50 and not impossible to get hold of and well talked about to £750, and probably ironically easier to get hold of now because of the high price, in a matter of few months/a year or so, not because it was played a few times in the 70s, it's because Butch has broken it on today's scene. The reason for the price rise is at least 50%, probably more, the desperate clambering of these "top DJs" to get the latest in vogue sound at all costs.

Maybe I'm wrong, I don't think I am though and if you think that's a good or bad thing, it's personal opinion. Personally I'd like to see more DJs trying to fit more interesting sounds into their 10-15 record sets than pay seemingly over the odds to be able to play out records that Butch has been hammering for the past year or so.

It's just the terminology James. No big deal really.

Probably just slightly galling when one reads that Butch 'broke' a record which was an established floor-filler and £1 on Soul Bowl's lists some 30 ago LOL.

But good luck to Butch for revitalizing it - it's a good record. Its just fascinating that there's such a feeding frenzy on the track. I'm just utterly staggered by the price considering that there's probably hundreds of copies of it around no doubt buried in many people's collections.

Buy, hey, that's Northern Soul 2008 stylee...........

Ian D

[Guest James Trouble]

It's just the terminology James. No big deal really.

Probably just slightly galling when one reads that Butch 'broke' a record which was an established floor-filler and £1 on Soul Bowl's lists some 30 ago LOL.

But good luck to Butch for revitalizing it - it's a good record. Its just fascinating that there's such a feeding frenzy on the track. I'm just utterly staggered by the price considering that there's probably hundreds of copies of it around no doubt buried in many people's collections.

Buy, hey, that's Northern Soul 2008 stylee...........

Ian D

Styleeee, keep it real...

[Guest shaun evans]

Well thats fook me trying to get a SERVILLE now only want it for the Bside fantastic deep sweet track if anyone has a copy can you post on REFOSOUL FOR ME PLEASE

[Ian Dewhirst]

Styleeee, keep it real...

Whoops....wrong decade!

Ian D

[Guest James Trouble]

Yes, but seriously, "Top DJs" set the fashion, they don't follow it. There seems to be an institutionalised culture on the northern scene where these so called "top DJs", as John Manship calls them, chase each other around in circles. Thank goodness there are a small handful of DJs and collectors, with Butch leading the way, who have the balls to do their own thing, to play tunes in the clubs that they believe in and set the agenda for these lost and insecure sheep, I mean "top DJs", to chase after.

God help us if Butch ever hung up his head phones and retired to Columbia...

Edited June 21, 2008 by James Trouble

[Wiganer1]

God help us if Butch ever hung up his head phones and retired to Columbia...

[Mark B]

Yes, but seriously, "Top DJs" set the fashion, they don't follow it. There seems to be an institutionalised culture on the northern scene where these so called "top DJs", as John Manship calls them, chase each other around in circles. Thank goodness there are a small handful of DJs and collectors, with Butch leading the way, who have the balls to do their own thing, to play tunes in the clubs that they believe in and set the agenda for these lost and insecure sheep, I mean "top DJs", to chase after.

God help us if Butch ever hung up his head phones and retired to Columbia...

Top DJ's surely have to do both james otherwise they would not play anything other than the top "500" , in all walks of life there are the innovators and obviously Butch is one of those, along with a few others, some Top DJ's live on past glory and never break any new records or re-activate any oldie they do not need to, but they listen to what is inspiring the dance floor and either buy it or dig it out of there collection.

I personally find the greatest Innovators and ones with the "Balls" to play upfront and oddball tunes they beleive in are not Usually the Top DJ's but the unsung heroes of the smaller clubs, without which many tunes would be still in collections and unheard, where do think the likes of Butch get there ideas from they don't just pop in their heads he probably heard someone play an underplayed oldie and dug it out or one of the many collecters he deals with whispered in his ear that a certain tune is just right for today, Without other DJ's chasing records where else could we sell cheapish records at exorbitant prices

Top DJ@s are often supplied by the bigger unsung heroes the dealers how many tunes has john anderson and john Manship unearthed (must be something in that name), they normally have their favoured DJ of the moment Richard was one of john andersons Sam is one of John andersons and Butches, and long may it continue.

As you came form the funk scene i suppose your biggest influence has been Keb, are you a sheep did you buy things he played just so you could become a top DJ. i doubt it because you are very headstrong and know your own mind. but you no doubt did buy tunes on the strength of Keb playing them, that is how it has always worked a DJ's job is to make something popular.

mark

No offence intended.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Yes, but seriously, "Top DJs" set the fashion, they don't follow it. There seems to be an institutionalised culture on the northern scene where these so called "top DJs", as John Manship calls them, chase each other around in circles. Thank goodness there are a small handful of DJs and collectors, with Butch leading the way, who have the balls to do their own thing, to play tunes in the clubs that they believe in and set the agenda for these lost and insecure sheep, I mean "top DJs", to chase after.

God help us if Butch ever hung up his head phones and retired to Columbia...

Now why would Butch retire to Columbia?

He's not fronting a rare record mail-order scam to distribute coke in 7" record mailers is he? Or maybe he's checking out Andrew 'Loog' Oldham's (ex Rolling Stones manager and owner of Immediate Records) PHENOMENAL collection (including the unreleased P.P. Arnold acetates and unreleased Spector stuff) which is stored in a garage on the outskirts of Medellin......?

Ian D

[jocko]

And these two unbelievably egotistical responses show why any progressive scene of any coherence is totally and unbelievable f***ed. No wonder Butch hardly dj's any more.

im sure we'd all survive James...somehow

Yes it would, with loads and loads of more soul nights playing loads and loads of more boring oldies, booking Russ Winstanley, just to get more people through the doors, feed their ego's to be dj's and let them slap them and their mates backs saying aren't we king of the castle. Without caring they had completetly killed the ethos of a scene they pretend they love.

I personally find the greatest Innovators and ones with the "Balls" to play upfront and oddball tunes they beleive in are not Usually the Top DJ's but the unsung heroes of the smaller clubs, without which many tunes would be still in collections and unheard, where do think the likes of Butch get there ideas from they don't just pop in their heads he probably heard someone play an underplayed oldie and dug it out or one of the many collecters he deals with whispered in his ear that a certain tune is just right for today, Without other DJ's chasing records where else could we sell cheapish records at exorbitant prices

So Butch heard all about the 2 or 300 (or should that be thousand!) cover ups, one offs and just plain unknowns that he has broken over the last 20 years from these Innovaters at soul clubs did he, don't make me laugh, you mean people like you don't you! F**k sake, your lack of understanding and lack of respect is amazing Everyone moans about Troubles ego, and sometimes absolutely rightly so, but it doesn't compare with statements like the above. These "unsung heros" would do better going to the main progressive events and talking about these records, just like in the good old days, rather than playing them down the pub to their 30 mates, then you could compare them to the Manships/Andersons/Ashibendes/B Waddingtons/Brads etc etc of the old days, although in reality very few could remotely hope to match these people.

I repeat again NOONE at soul nights can compete with Butch at the top end of the scale and stop pretending you can. These Top DJ's you refer to above shouldn't be included as such, thats just your narrow vision and your limited scope of what Northern scene should be, they are just followers, there are probably about 5 or 6 top DJ's around in the sense you quote of Searling back in the day, and they aren't chasing things like Lee Fields now. You may be happy in your own bubble but stop pretending you are anything other than an egotistical DJ who wants to say "I am an innovator".

The sad things about this is you all moan about Mr Trouble (and sadly not for the many things he deserves to be moaned about) but he actually gets "it", the ethos of a progressive Northern scene which is what it was and should be all about, much more than guys like you lot and you just don't see it.

Right definitely my last word on shit like this, I repeat again You either get it or you don't. Seems most nowadays don't, which should really be of little consequence to me, not quite sure why I care.

Off to immerse myself in some early 90's House and a bottle of Cucumber Gin, soothe away the pain!

[Wiganer1]

Yes it would, with loads and loads of more soul nights playing loads and loads of more boring oldies, booking Russ Winstanley, just to get more people through the doors,

========

oh dear jock

explained before i didnt book Russ Winstanley to get people through the door - i booked because i wanted to! simple as that

not all oldies are boring by the way

ref my comment about Butch , butch is great dj , great bloke and has spun some fantastic stuff over the years but if he wasnt around the scene would still survive m8 in my own opinion.

the scene is bigger than one individual..thats all im saying

[Pete S]

And these two unbelievably egotistical responses show why any progressive scene of any coherence is totally and unbelievable f***ed. No wonder Butch hardly dj's any more.

Yes it would, with loads and loads of more soul nights playing loads and loads of more boring oldies, booking Russ Winstanley, just to get more people through the doors, feed their ego's to be dj's and let them slap them and their mates backs saying aren't we king of the castle. Without caring they had completetly killed the ethos of a scene they pretend they love.

So Butch heard all about the 2 or 300 (or should that be thousand!) cover ups, one offs and just plain unknowns that he has broken over the last 20 years from these Innovaters at soul clubs did he, don't make me laugh, you mean people like you don't you! F**k sake, your lack of understanding and lack of respect is amazing Everyone moans about Troubles ego, and sometimes absolutely rightly so, but it doesn't compare with statements like the above. These "unsung heros" would do better going to the main progressive events and talking about these records, just like in the good old days, rather than playing them down the pub to their 30 mates, then you could compare them to the Manships/Andersons/Ashibendes/B Waddingtons/Brads etc etc of the old days, although in reality very few could remotely hope to match these people.

I repeat again NOONE at soul nights can compete with Butch at the top end of the scale and stop pretending you can. These Top DJ's you refer to above shouldn't be included as such, thats just your narrow vision and your limited scope of what Northern scene should be, they are just followers, there are probably about 5 or 6 top DJ's around in the sense you quote of Searling back in the day, and they aren't chasing things like Lee Fields now. You may be happy in your own bubble but stop pretending you are anything other than an egotistical DJ who wants to say "I am an innovator".

The sad things about this is you all moan about Mr Trouble (and sadly not for the many things he deserves to be moaned about) but he actually gets "it", the ethos of a progressive Northern scene which is what it was and should be all about, much more than guys like you lot and you just don't see it.

Right definitely my last word on shit like this, I repeat again You either get it or you don't. Seems most nowadays don't, which should really be of little consequence to me, not quite sure why I care.

Off to immerse myself in some early 90's House and a bottle of Cucumber Gin, soothe away the pain!

Goodness me, did someone p*ss through your letterbox this morning? You are right Jock but so are the other people. I've managed to see Butch dj maybe 4 times in 20 years and life has gone on cos other dj's had great records they could play. And the chap who said about the unsing heroes is right - I bet these 'top dj's' DO hear lesser mortals play forgotten oldies then decide they are ripe for repromoting. Thats not to say they haven't found hundreds of records themselves, of course they have, but nobody can ever know every record and they have to hear them somewhere.

p.s. it's way too early to be drinking!

[Guest Modern Skip Tone]

I think most are missing the point here, though maybe one person touched on it - not all dj's can have one-offs and mega rarities. Back in the old days, there were these things known as "top sounds" where all of the dj's would be after the same 20 or so record at one particular moment and this is what made a record massive nationwide instead of just locally. If the Lee Fields record is big in say London, then obviously a DJ in York will want it because he will be getting asked for it by his local punters. I know you're struggling with the words 'top dj' but the most popular (i.e. busy) dj's would probably have to arm themselves with a copy to keep the crowd happy.

Agree with you on this Pete, "Top Sounds Massive Everywhere", how many times did we hear that down the microphone and through the speakers, followed by a huge rush to the dance floor, during the seventies.

EXAMPLE: Late 1970's Friday Nite - Spinning Jenny Club - Accrington, Guy Hennigan plays for the first time ever John Bowie - Youre Gonna Miss A Good Thing. Brilliant the Skipton crowd love it, Accrington, Burnley Blackburn, Darwin and Clitheroe....etc!!! Great buzz on this......45. Locals bombard Guy to "do us a tape for next week mate."

Next nite - Saturday. Wigan Casino - Richard Searling drops - John Bowie - rare little unknow 45, Richard quotes "for the first time Im gonna play this tonite"..... but we heard this the nite before, brilliant....others now are aware of it. Richard states after record has finished and the applause is ring out, "Gonna be massive throughout the country!"

Two weeks later, Im at the Stars and Stripes -Yate......DJ quotes "one of the biggest records in the country at the moment is this....and bang its.... John Bowie - Gonna Miss A Good Thing. (Not to sure if it wasnt Ian Clark jocking at the time) but dont quote me on this, could have been Dave Thorley.

A whole nationwide scene united......but this does not happen often enough now a days. Check out the playlists back then in Black Echo's and the Pat's - Brady Beat column. Playlists by the top five jocks at the time, all their top 20 sounds contained 5 or 6 massive tunes very common to each others playlist. And from that these jocks ensured further booking. Ah those memories.

[Sunnysoul]

Perhaps one positive outcome from this rather heated discussion is that some promoter might now bring Lee Fields out to perform live and afford him some of the recognition he no doubt deserves, like so many of our soul heroes.

Lee is still alive and very well, in great shape in fact and in fine vocal form, check out this recent performance of a superb tune ...

[Flanny]

That's irrelevant in the perspective of this thread and this record IMO. Broke/revitalised/resurrected/refurbished//whatever...

Kev, are you trying to say that you think this price rise in the Lee Fields is not down to Butch but down to it being spun a few times in the 70s and all of a sudden these "top DJs" have suddenly remembered it and have jumped all over John Manship's auction. But if you're picking bones, then fair enough, pick away, man.

Broke/resurrected/whatever, it was down to Butch and the "top DJs" now wanting to chase one of his big spins.

The price of the Lee Fields has gone from £50 and not impossible to get hold of and well talked about to £750, and probably ironically easier to get hold of now because of the high price, in a matter of few months/a year or so, not because it was played a few times in the 70s, it's because Butch has broken it on today's scene. The reason for the price rise is at least 50%, probably more, the desperate clambering of these "top DJs" to get the latest in vogue sound at all costs.

Maybe I'm wrong, I don't think I am though and if you think that's a good or bad thing, it's personal opinion. Personally I'd like to see more DJs trying to fit more interesting sounds into their 10-15 record sets than pay seemingly over the odds to be able to play out records that Butch has been hammering for the past year or so.

the 3 rules of dj,ing as a backbone for myself and a few dj,s I admire, make it big / shelve it / move on. as you said to me James when we met at sheffield qoute (its not rocket science is it) unqoute very true. so how come only a few of us get it? ps heres a thought Butch has been playing the Four Sights out, love is a hurting game I c'ant win. why has it not gone from 500 to 5000 just a thought

Flanny........

[Wiganer1]

the 3 rules of dj,ing as a backbone for myself and a few dj,s I admire, make it big / shelve it / move on. as you said to me James when we met at sheffield qoute (its not rocket science is it) unqoute very true. so how come only a few of us get it? ps heres a thought Butch has been playing the Four Sights out, love is a hurting game I c'ant win. why has it not gone from 500 to 5000 just a thought

Flanny........

========

four sights - gr8 tune flanny - 1st heard soul sam play this a long time ago...

missed out on a copy for about £70 before it got played again a few years ago

[jocko]

explained before i didnt book Russ Winstanley to get people through the door - i booked because i wanted to! simple as that

not all oldies are boring by the way

the scene is bigger than one individual..thats all im saying

Okay, Russ Winstanley was a cheap dig for which I apologise, however rest of what I said stands, people who hold up local soul nights as "the scene" are missing the point, and it really does my head in here how peoples self desire to be a DJ ignores the work people like Butch have done in keeping any original ethos going.

And thats my point Mark not all oldies are boring, by definition 99% of what you hear now, if you have been around as long as you have are all going to be oldies, its just the boring ones that seem to get played because they are easy on the ears and get people through the doors!

And I think I may disagree about your last point, Butch packs up and takes his record the scene as I know it and we all got into is f***ked, it is then 100% of the rock and roll revivalist scene we keep denying it already is. If he sells his records then thats a different issue................. However I doubt it as a point many on here also miss is Butch actually likes this music, he buys stuff because he likes it and buys far more than we ever hear. Sadly another point too many of todays DJ only school don't understand.

Goodness me, did someone p*ss through your letterbox this morning? You are right Jock but so are the other people. I've managed to see Butch dj maybe 4 times in 20 years and life has gone on cos other dj's had great records they could play. And the chap who said about the unsing heroes is right - I bet these 'top dj's' DO hear lesser mortals play forgotten oldies then decide they are ripe for repromoting. Thats not to say they haven't found hundreds of records themselves, of course they have, but nobody can ever know every record and they have to hear them somewhere.

p.s. it's way too early to be drinking!

Not quite, but I am sleepy and grumpy for no real reason so nothing better than a good rant to wake me up.

It is something I feel strongly about, it is what made me fall out of love with the scene and stop going so much in the mid 90's, I always thought there would be a correction like there was in the 80's but in reality that was niave, we are all too old to do it properly again, however it still gets me annoyed when I see things like the 2 Mark's posting, f**k knows why, its not exactly central in my life anymore, maybe I need to take up plane spotting or something else to get me equally excited!!

The point I am making about Butch is that he is probably the last of finding real unknowns etc, and people particularly on here just wont give him credit, and I really don't know why, and to compare these "local heroes to him" is just wrong. He has done more than Searling ever did in reality, but your point about only hearing him so many times is the crux of the matter, and lots of this is because there are far too many local soul nights that just can't or in reality wouldnt book Butch, wonder why!! I think the other issue is who people now refer to as the Top DJ's are those who get most bookings not those who are playing the best or newest records, crazy or what.

Also its not like Nick says below where everyone eventually ended up in the one place so these local discoveries made it national. Obviously there are guys out there finding different things, christ thats what it was all about for a couple of hundred of us all through the 80's, however due to internet now, these local discoveries become known about far too quickly, become far too expensive quickly and as result dissappear too quickly, these local discoveries are often gone and dissapeared in a matter of weeks, to then become the fodder for the next layer of the DJ food chain who play them off carvers etc for the next 20 years. And in reality often they aren't that good. Butch has found an unbelievable quality of unknowns consistently.

I think the multitude of local soul nights with the attitude they are doing something different is 99% of the problem today, and thats not to say there isn't a place, more than anything these days I hate the travelling, but posts like Mark B's above comparing them to the Butch's is just crazy. Its back to the argument too many DJ's with no centralisation (Ah thats an idea Soul Socialists, could be the way forward! )

Agree with you on this Pete, "Top Sounds Massive Everywhere", how many times did we hear that down the microphone and through the speakers, followed by a huge rush to the dance floor, during the seventies.

EXAMPLE: Late 1970's Friday Nite - Spinning Jenny Club - Accrington, Guy Hennigan plays for the first time ever John Bowie - Youre Gonna Miss A Good Thing. Brilliant the Skipton crowd love it, Accrington, Burnley Blackburn, Darwin and Clitheroe....etc!!! Great buzz on this......45. Locals bombard Guy to "do us a tape for next week mate."

Next nite - Saturday. Wigan Casino - Richard Searling drops - John Bowie - rare little unknow 45, Richard quotes "for the first time Im gonna play this tonite"..... but we heard this the nite before, brilliant....others now are aware of it. Richard states after record has finished and the applause is ring out, "Gonna be massive throughout the country!"

Two weeks later, Im at the Stars and Stripes -Yate......DJ quotes "one of the biggest records in the country at the moment is this....and bang its.... John Bowie - Gonna Miss A Good Thing. (Not to sure if it wasnt Ian Clark jocking at the time) but dont quote me on this, could have been Dave Thorley.

A whole nationwide scene united......but this does not happen often enough now a days. Check out the playlists back then in Black Echo's and the Pat's - Brady Beat column. Playlists by the top five jocks at the time, all their top 20 sounds contained 5 or 6 massive tunes very common to each others playlist. And from that these jocks ensured further booking. Ah those memories.

And that is really the point I am making Nick, people like Guy were on the verge of making it as a "Top DJ" (read Richards Wigan 6th anniversary notes and his tip for the top) and were feeding the top guys, thats always happened. It isn't now for a number of reasons, one of the main reasons is the equivelant today are putting on a night in a pub for their 30 mates saying look at what I found!! The whole nationwide scene hasn't really existed for over 10 years, maybe longer, and has been throttled willingly by the ego of these guys who want to DJ at any price.

Definitely my last word or Butch is going to think I fancy him or something, thankfully he still has crap taste in cars to prove he is anything but perfect!

[Ted Massey]

Jesus i wish this thread would finish i need to grab a couple hours sleep to prepare for Rugby

[Mark B]

Okay, Russ Winstanley was a cheap dig for which I apologise, however rest of what I said stands, people who hold up local soul nights as "the scene" are missing the point, and it really does my head in here how peoples self desire to be a DJ ignores the work people like Butch have done in keeping any original ethos going.

And thats my point Mark not all oldies are boring, by definition 99% of what you hear now, if you have been around as long as you have are all going to be oldies, its just the boring ones that seem to get played because they are easy on the ears and get people through the doors!

And I think I may disagree about your last point, Butch packs up and takes his record the scene as I know it and we all got into is f***ked, it is then 100% of the rock and roll revivalist scene we keep denying it already is. If he sells his records then thats a different issue................. However I doubt it as a point many on here also miss is Butch actually likes this music, he buys stuff because he likes it and buys far more than we ever hear. Sadly another point too many of todays DJ only school don't understand.

Not quite, but I am sleepy and grumpy for no real reason so nothing better than a good rant to wake me up.

It is something I feel strongly about, it is what made me fall out of love with the scene and stop going so much in the mid 90's, I always thought there would be a correction like there was in the 80's but in reality that was niave, we are all too old to do it properly again, however it still gets me annoyed when I see things like the 2 Mark's posting, f**k knows why, its not exactly central in my life anymore, maybe I need to take up plane spotting or something else to get me equally excited!!

The point I am making about Butch is that he is probably the last of finding real unknowns etc, and people particularly on here just wont give him credit, and I really don't know why, and to compare these "local heroes to him" is just wrong. He has done more than Searling ever did in reality, but your point about only hearing him so many times is the crux of the matter, and lots of this is because there are far too many local soul nights that just can't or in reality wouldnt book Butch, wonder why!! I think the other issue is who people now refer to as the Top DJ's are those who get most bookings not those who are playing the best or newest records, crazy or what.

Also its not like Nick says below where everyone eventually ended up in the one place so these local discoveries made it national. Obviously there are guys out there finding different things, christ thats what it was all about for a couple of hundred of us all through the 80's, however due to internet now, these local discoveries become known about far too quickly, become far too expensive quickly and as result dissappear too quickly, these local discoveries are often gone and dissapeared in a matter of weeks, to then become the fodder for the next layer of the DJ food chain who play them off carvers etc for the next 20 years. And in reality often they aren't that good. Butch has found an unbelievable quality of unknowns consistently.

I think the multitude of local soul nights with the attitude they are doing something different is 99% of the problem today, and thats not to say there isn't a place, more than anything these days I hate the travelling, but posts like Mark B's above comparing them to the Butch's is just crazy. Its back to the argument too many DJ's with no centralisation (Ah thats an idea Soul Socialists, could be the way forward! )

And that is really the point I am making Nick, people like Guy were on the verge of making it as a "Top DJ" (read Richards Wigan 6th anniversary notes and his tip for the top) and were feeding the top guys, thats always happened. It isn't now for a number of reasons, one of the main reasons is the equivelant today are putting on a night in a pub for their 30 mates saying look at what I found!! The whole nationwide scene hasn't really existed for over 10 years, maybe longer, and has been throttled willingly by the ego of these guys who want to DJ at any price.

Definitely my last word or Butch is going to think I fancy him or something, thankfully he still has crap taste in cars to prove he is anything but perfect!

where in my post did i disrespect anyone. nowhere the points i made were valid i said butch is probably the top dj and he is an innovator i never mentioned that he gets all his plays form other people i just said he may get some this way.

i merely pointed out we all buy things we hear other dj's play, that does not make them sheep. in no way am i an innovator not enough people listen to anything i play. i dont think i could ever do what the likes of butch hennigan keb etc etc did or still do. i am happy with what i do. i do attend venues and listen to other dj's and i am sorry but i do get it i like to hear new fresh stuff when i go out so do not attend oldies nights for this reason.

mark

[Md Records]

maybe the "Northern Soul" scene in the spirit and style that Jocko (and myself) and many others loved has more or less run it's course, to be replaced by this localised nostalgia scene - are we to plug the holes in a sinking ship, or is there a future for the forward thinking, fresh and exciting scene that most of us signed up for - I wish I knew the answer.

Des Parker

[Mark B]

maybe the "Northern Soul" scene in the spirit and style that Jocko (and myself) and many others loved has more or less run it's course, to be replaced by this localised nostalgia scene - are we to plug the holes in a sinking ship, or is there a future for the forward thinking, fresh and exciting scene that most of us signed up for - I wish I knew the answer.

Des Parker

Des i think that now there is not just one scene anymore there is the All nighter scene , the small soul night , the Northern Nostalgia scene, The upfront nights/all nighters all playing variations on northern but not attended by the same people also there are too many nights on watering down the attendances, i too wish i knew what the answer was.

mark

[Ian Dewhirst]

Des i think that now there is not just one scene anymore there is the All nighter scene , the small soul night , the Northern Nostalgia scene, The upfront nights/all nighters all playing variations on northern but not attended by the same people also there are too many nights on watering down the attendances, i too wish i knew what the answer was.

mark

The answer will be when someone sets up more of a regular weekly or monthly large capacity 'event' all-nighter again with the top DJ's and serious up-and comers on. You really have to have a solid base to work from as The Wheel, The Torch, The Catacombs, The Mecca, Wigan, Cleethorpes, Stafford proved in their respective eras.

When you have a strong venue with a progressive music policy then those circumstances tend to unite a scene and provide a nucleus event to focus everyone. Also it makes breaking new tunes a lot easier - that's how you break stuff to a huge audience in a few weeks and get a real buzz going isn't it?

This then builds into a self-fullfilling prophecy because everyone will want to check it out and the buzz would grow and grow.

Also I would go for resident roster of the top 'progressive' DJ's aligned with the younger, edgier element with a sexy crowd.

So that'll be Sam, Butch and Trouble headlining then! Now who else?

In fact, what would be the optimim DJ line-up to create the right mix of top rare unknown goodies and deeper, unplayed oldies which haven't been done to death? Oh yeah, and there has to be a bunch of youngsters for the energy levels LOL.....

Now THAT would be a night worth going to!

Ian D

Edited June 21, 2008 by Ian Dewhirst

[Mark B]

The answer will be when someone sets up more of a regular weekly or monthly large capacity 'event' all-nighter again with the top DJ's and serious up-and comers on. You really have to have a solid base to work from as The Wheel, The Torch, The Catacombs, The Mecca, Wigan, Cleethorpes, Stafford proved in their respective eras.

When you have a strong venue with a progressive music policy then those circumstances tend to unite a scene and provide a nucleus event to focus everyone. Also it makes breaking new tunes a lot easier - that's how you break stuff to a huge audience in a few weeks and get a real buzz going isn't it?

This then builds into a self-fullfilling prophecy because everyone will want to check it out and the buzz would grow and grow.

Also I would go for resident roster of the top 'progressive' DJ's aligned with the younger, edgier element with a sexy crowd.

So that'll be Sam, Butch and Trouble headlining then! Now who else?

In fact, what would be the optimim DJ line-up to create the right mix of top rare unknown goodies and deeper, unplayed oldies which haven't been done to death? Oh yeah, and there has to be a bunch of youngsters for the energy levels LOL.....

Now THAT would be a night worth going to!

Ian D

when are you going to start it ian i would attend

mark

[Md Records]

This is yet another problem, though, Ian. Apart from Butch, there is NO collective consensus on who is worthy to play in this "solid base" and those in disagreement will start their own "solid base" 500 yards down the road!!

Des Parker

[Ian Dewhirst]

when are you going to start it ian i would attend

mark

I wouldn't mind getting one-up actually LOL.

I might give my mate Kevin a ring and see if he can't sort out The Rocket in London again but do it properly this time!

Although I think a Midlands venue would probably be better from a practical point of view - Birmingham, Leicester, Nottingham, Derby areas would be more accessible for many people.

Y'know, an exciting All-Nighter with a roster of all the top jocks on regular basis would get people off their arses I'm sure. But it'd have to be a big Ballroomy type place as that seems to be the best environment for Northern......

...and have a number of cheap hotels nearby for those of us who like a more leisurely approach to such things LOL....

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

This is yet another problem, though, Ian. Apart from Butch, there is NO collective consensus on who is worthy to play in this "solid base" and those in disagreement will start their own "solid base" 500 yards down the road!!

Des Parker

Not if people get their heads together and start thinking objectively Des.

Running such an event would probably require the resources of a collective of promoters, who would know how to run the event properly.

These promoters should talk to each other, scout out potential venues and local authority co-operation and think about doing something that will be a catalyst for the scene instead of splitting their own audiences and fragmenting the scene, as is happening at the moment from what I read on here.

Plus it would be a much-needed shot in the arm of a scene which appears to be getting slighly jaded in some quarters LOL...

Yep, a BUZZY new all-nighter with all the best jocks would be a good thing right now I think......

Ian D

[Chalky]

The answer will be when someone sets up more of a regular weekly or monthly large capacity 'event' all-nighter again with the top DJ's and serious up-and comers on. You really have to have a solid base to work from as The Wheel, The Torch, The Catacombs, The Mecca, Wigan, Cleethorpes, Stafford proved in their respective eras.

When you have a strong venue with a progressive music policy then those circumstances tend to unite a scene and provide a nucleus event to focus everyone. Also it makes breaking new tunes a lot easier - that's how you break stuff to a huge audience in a few weeks and get a real buzz going isn't it?

This then builds into a self-fullfilling prophecy because everyone will want to check it out and the buzz would grow and grow.

Also I would go for resident roster of the top 'progressive' DJ's aligned with the younger, edgier element with a sexy crowd.

So that'll be Sam, Butch and Trouble headlining then! Now who else?

In fact, what would be the optimim DJ line-up to create the right mix of top rare unknown goodies and deeper, unplayed oldies which haven't been done to death? Oh yeah, and there has to be a bunch of youngsters for the energy levels LOL.....

Now THAT would be a night worth going to!

Ian D

The only DJ close enough to Butch who is discovering for himself and discovers for the likes of others, plus has the knowledge and collection of the so called deeper unplayed oldies is Andy Dyson, he's up there with Butch IMHO and streets ahead of DJ's like Sam.

[Russ Vickers]

Ha,but has it got "Tek mi bak" on the other side?.

Which "dj's" have had the "round things between their legs" enough to play "Tyra's Song out?

How much for "Mighty Lovin(?)'" on the same label by Lee Fields?.Anyway this went to the back of my box some time back.

MOVE ON CHILDREN

Tyras Song was a huge record at the Uptown Down South do's years n years ago..........

Russ

[Guest posstot]

WELL IM GOBSMACKED FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS FIRSTLY CAN PEOPLE /DJS NOT SHOW ANY ORIGINALITY AND PURSUE THE LITERALLY THOUSHANDS OF GOOD OBSCURE TUNES WHAT ARE OUT THERE-ANSWER NO OFCOURSE NOT,SECONDLY ITS A GOOD RECORD BUT NOT A BRILLAINT RECORD ,THE APPRECIATIONS -CANT HIDE IT WENT FOR 540US LAST WEEK ON THE BAY ON A vg+,NOW THAT IS A BRILLAINT RECORD PERHAPS NOT VOGUE ENOUGH?

THIS IS JUST ANOTHER REASON WHY I ONLY GET TO CERTAIN VENUES OCCASIONALLY BECAUSE THE F--KING ORIGINALITY OF THE SCENE AND THE PRINCIPLES ALOT OF US FOLLOWED IN THE MID TO LATE EIGHTIES HAS GONE ,SHEEP FOLLOW SHEEP SADLY,RIGHT OFF TO THE MEDIA SECTION TO LISTEN TO THE THOUSHANDS OF RECORDS THAT BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF LEE FIELDS FOR THE COST OF A PIZZA AND A PINT OF LAGER.

BAZ A

WELL BAZ...MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY.....MY PURCHASING PRINCIPLES ALSO...ITS AMAZING WHAT QAULITY IS OUT THERE, WHEN YOU HAVE A MIND OF YOUR OWN. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAH BAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH.

[Md Records]

I agree with Chalky about Butch & Andy, but after that there is a HUGE area of debate, and this is where the problem will be - I would probably agree to disagree with Chalky about which other D.J.'s are the "business" but that may also be because of preferences of musical style, but isn't that the beauty of having different clubs like Lifeline, Bidds, Burnley etc etc etc

Des Parker

[Ezzie Brown]

des....... put yourself with butch mate,always good new things on your playlist. there should be a "never sell a new sound" embargo for a year so us mortals find out who finds the good stuff, not buys it...........ezzie

[Md Records]

No doubt about it Butch is the "Guv'nor" but just out of interest Ezzie, do you think this new allnighter will cater for those, like yourself, with an interest in the "R & B" side of things?

Des Parker

[KevH]

Tyras Song was a huge record at the Uptown Down South do's years n years ago..........

Russ

,Russ you're right,was refering to playing it now the TMB has gone big (again) .

[Marc Forrest]

The answer will be when someone sets up more of a regular weekly or monthly large capacity 'event' all-nighter again with the top DJ's and serious up-and comers on. .....

Also I would go for resident roster of the top 'progressive' DJ's aligned with the younger, edgier element with a sexy crowd.

...Now THAT would be a night worth going to!

Ian D

Lifeline Allnighters

[Guest Modern Skip Tone]

Also its not like Nick says below where everyone eventually ended up in the one place so these local discoveries made it national. Obviously there are guys out there finding different things, christ thats what it was all about for a couple of hundred of us all through the 80's, however due to internet now, these local discoveries become known about far too quickly, become far too expensive quickly and as result dissappear too quickly, these local discoveries are often gone and dissapeared in a matter of weeks, to then become the fodder for the next layer of the DJ food chain who play them off carvers etc for the next 20 years. And in reality often they aren't that good. Butch has found an unbelievable quality of unknowns consistently.

I think the multitude of local soul nights with the attitude they are doing something different is 99% of the problem today, and thats not to say there isn't a place, more than anything these days I hate the travelling, but posts like Mark B's above comparing them to the Butch's is just crazy. Its back to the argument too many DJ's with no centralisation (Ah thats an idea Soul Socialists, could be the way forward! )

And that is really the point I am making Nick, people like Guy were on the verge of making it as a "Top DJ" (read Richards Wigan 6th anniversary notes and his tip for the top) and were feeding the top guys, thats always happened. It isn't now for a number of reasons, one of the main reasons is the equivelant today are putting on a night in a pub for their 30 mates saying look at what I found!! The whole nationwide scene hasn't really existed for over 10 years, maybe longer, and has been throttled willingly by the ego of these guys who want to DJ at any price.

[Platters 81]

£475

£450...pretty much minto....