Whats Acceptable

[Tomangoes]

Carvers, EMI Discs, tapes, compilation cds, mp3s, reissues, pressings, re-recordings etc.

Of course if a soul event announces any format/any soul music before the event, you know what you are getting, (Soul CDs in the sun etc) but has it really become acceptable to not play original vinyl (If thats the tunes first outing) at a Northern Soul event today?

Old thread, but have attitudes changed?

Ed

[Epic]

Think the "Soul Police" would say OVO - then temper that with reasons why carvers, EMIdiscs etc are acceptable.

Personally it doesn't bother me anymore - nor the thousands of people who have danced to a Frank Wilson re-issue over the years. The scene has never been "pure" - & never will be.

[Steve G]

Carvers, EMI Discs, tapes, compilation cds, mp3s, reissues, pressings, re-recordings etc.

Of course if a soul event announces any format/any soul music before the event, you know what you are getting, (Soul CDs in the sun etc) but has it really become acceptable to not play original vinyl (If thats the tunes first outing) at a Northern Soul event today?

Old thread, but have attitudes changed?

Ed

Look on the archives and you'll find a thread on this topic just about every week.

[Shsdave]

No argument, original vinyl only !!!!!!

Unfortunately there's many that don't give a shit

[Steve G]

No argument, original vinyl only !!!!!!

Unfortunately there's many that don't give a shit

including the many thousands who dance to frank wilson when not played by Kenny B or Tim B it would seem......

[Prophonics 2029]

I don't see why they should be played when there are plenty of good 10 20 30 £ records out their that never get played.

[KevH]

including the many thousands who dance to frank wilson when not played by Kenny B or Tim B it would seem......

....or on the UK original maybe? Or is that a re-issue?

[Simon M]

Vinyl Carvers for everything and protect your originals and coverups etc etc

[Guest Stuart T]

No argument, original vinyl only !!!!!!

Unfortunately there's many that don't give a shit

I could still DJ on Friday by emailing you an i-tunes thingummy with two dozen tracks off Goldmine CDs and a couple out of Refosoul.

[KevH]

i'm thinking of putting everything on an old 8 track and playing it thru some old Orange speakers with the treble turned up.

Coupled with a Norman Collier mike.

[Epic]

I could still DJ on Friday by emailing you an i-tunes thingummy with two dozen tracks off Goldmine CDs and a couple out of Refosoul.

Ain't that the truth - if you run short during the night - nip to the 24 hr Asda or Tesco - plenty of Northern Soul compilation CDs there in the audio department.

[Guest Matt Male]

Original vinyl only every time.

However here's a new twist raised by another thread recently... if you play original vinyl only should you share a stage with DJs playing boots and CDs or does that make you a hypocrite?

[Guest Soultown andy]

Dont think the soul nite crowd are to concerned about what format the music is played on not all of course but a good few,but as for all niters unless its unreleased it should be original only imo .

[Ian Dewhirst]

Having just spent the last 2 days buried in my record room refiling my 7"'s, all I can say is physical formats are a pain in the ass and make no sense in this day and age.

One can study a record and marvel at the physical beauty of it for a little while but ultimately it's just a format in the same way that cylinders, 78's, 8 track cartridges and cassettes were in their day. I'm much more bothered about what comes out of the speakers ultimately and that can be from any source.

I think I've probably got over my vinyl addiction at the right time to be honest and I'm beginning to realise that knocking your brains out and emptying your pockets to possess a 7" piece of plastic makes about as much sense as using a CB radio or even two tin cans and a piece of string to communicate with someone.

Mind you, it's taken a good 40+ years for the penny to drop LOL.

Vinyl is quaint but hopelessly outmoded in this day and age. In the last 2 years I've discovered more tunes by crate-digging 1000's of blogs then I ever did from countless trips to the U.S. I've found at least 10 of the best tunes I've ever heard in 40 years of collecting simply by crate-digging from my sofa!

Vinyl collecting makes sense if you're of a certain age and mindset but in the grand scheme of things, music formats have moved on.

And the dust, the weight, the stylus replacement and the hours of re-filing have kind of outlasted the appeal for me personally.

Naturally there'll be mostly die-hard vinyl freaks on here who wear their collections like a badge of honour, like my mate who has 1000's of blues 78's lovingly kept in his huge garage but mostly plays 'em to an audience of one these days LOL. And don't get me wrong, even though I have 20K tunes on my lappy I'll always keep a few thousand vinyl 'cos old habits die hard.

But I think the future will be all about knowledge and taste in music and the format will be electronic, simply because that's what makes the most sense in this day and age.

It may even be a good thing as it will free up playlists, liberate people and let the music spread on it's own merits rather than be confined by whether it's rare or not.

Difficult for some to take I know but things move on and technology can be embraced positively if you want to. Soul Source is the living example.

Ian D

Edited June 16, 2008 by Ian Dewhirst

[Simon M]

You found those 20 unknown Northern mp3's yet Ian

Edited June 16, 2008 by Simon M

[Ian Dewhirst]

You found those 20 unknown Nothern mp3's yet Ian

Dunno if they're necessarily totally unknown Simon, but I've found a good couple of hundred DYNAMITE tunes which I'd have happily paid fortunes for and played out back in the day without a doubt. Makes it frustrating for me when I don't hear 'em out anywhere.

Maybe they're too rare LOL.......

Ian D

[Simon M]

Dunno if they're necessarily totally unknown Simon, but I've found a good couple of hundred DYNAMITE tunes which I'd have happily paid fortunes for and played out back in the day without a doubt. Makes it frustrating for me when I don't hear 'em out anywhere.

Maybe they're too rare LOL.......

Ian D

any 60's stuff

[Ian Dewhirst]

any 60's stuff

Yep, plenty mate. It's out there in one form or another.

Plus I just picked 30 odd CD's t'other day and I'm amazed what's buried away on some of 'em. Mind you I missed a good few years so I'm still playing catch up on a lot of stuff

I only just heard that BRILLIANT Dynamics track yesterday "You Can Make It If You Try" - whatta record! Where was that played?

And can't tell you the unknowns 'cos they're top secret LOL.....

Ian D

[Simon M]

Yep, plenty mate. It's out there in one form or another.

Plus I just picked 30 odd CD's t'other day and I'm amazed what's buried away on some of 'em. Mind you I missed a good few years so I'm still playing catch up on a lot of stuff

I only just heard that BRILLIANT Dynamics track yesterday "You Can Make It If You Try" - whatta record! Where was that played?

And can't tell you the unknowns 'cos they're top secret LOL.....

Ian D

You better spend some $$ on here then https://www.vinylcarvers.com/

[Guest gordon russell]

I think tunes should all be played on ...the spoons......soul nite crowd could'nt give a toss cause generally they're not soul fans,they're soolies which is differant. all nighters the dj's tend to be collectors first (not in all cases but most) and dj's second so it follows original vinyl. Besides who wants to drive any distance only to have dicky dickead with his box of carvers and plastic swarf all over the ocke lol

[Ian Dewhirst]

You better spend some $$ on here then https://www.vinylcarvers.com/

Now why would I need to do that unless it was to satisfy some bizarre fixation with plastic?

I can play anything anything I want from a superior WAV file and select any one of 20k tunes direct from my lappy to the speakers. Why would I want to degrade the process by shlepping down to a vinyl carver place and spending £25 getting something that will be inferior to the file on my lappy?

Unless I was trying to PRETEND that I was playing a record LOL.

But that would be a bit hypocritical wouldn't it? I mean, why bother...........?

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

I think tunes should all be played on ...the spoons......soul nite crowd could'nt give a toss cause generally they're not soul fans,they're soolies which is differant. all nighters the dj's tend to be collectors first (not in all cases but most) and dj's second so it follows original vinyl. Besides who wants to drive any distance only to have dicky dickead with his box of carvers and plastic swarf all over the ocke lol

Yeah, but surely they've got to be real 'soul' spoons haven't they?

Ian 'Spoony' D

[Guest]

Now why would I need to do that unless it was to satisfy some bizarre fixation with plastic?

I can play anything anything I want from a superior WAV file and select any one of 20k tunes direct from my lappy to the speakers. Why would I want to degrade the process by shlepping down to a vinyl carver place and spending £25 getting something that will be inferior to the file on my lappy?

Unless I was trying to PRETEND that I was playing a record LOL.

But that would be a bit hypocritical wouldn't it? I mean, why bother...........?

Ian D

Its only £15 £10 for side one £15 for both sides

[mischief]

Funny Soul Source..

we have a thread going on about should it be original vinyl only and then we have a thread asking is there to many dj's..

If it was more exceptable to play any format at Northern do's... we would have even more dj's

I think the original only unwritten rule, is more of a sign of respect... for example in the past i've been on the same night as Ginger Taylor.. and because I play originals only I can just play my set.. if i play some thing he has, hard cheese.. but if I played a choon he had, and i played it off a CD then that is disrespectful... to him as a collector or DJ...thats how I see it... so play the tune in its original format, whatever that is.. only because its polite to the other dj's.. its what its all about.. its why pub dj's can't play northern properly... it adds that little bit of specialnees to our scene...

only my view.... and at the end of the day I can't give a funk about what other people do.. as long as i'm happy and so are the dancers when I do my spot...

[Ian Dewhirst]

Its only £15 £10 for side one £15 for both sides

Hang on Ken, I can buy an actual record for that price!

Ian D

[Dolly13]

No argument, original vinyl only !!!!!!

Unfortunately there's many that don't give a shit

TOTALLY 110% AGREE WITH YOU

[Ian Dewhirst]

Funny Soul Source..

we have a thread going on about should it be original vinyl only and then we have a thread asking is there to many dj's..

If it was more exceptable to play any format at Northern do's... we would have even more dj's

I think the original only unwritten rule, is more of a sign of respect... for example in the past i've been on the same night as Ginger Taylor.. and because I play originals only I can just play my set.. if i play some thing he has, hard cheese.. but if I played a choon he had, and i played it off a CD then that is disrespectful... to him as a collector or DJ...thats how I see it... so play the tune in its original format, whatever that is.. only because its polite to the other dj's.. its what its all about.. its why pub dj's can't play northern properly... it adds that little bit of specialnees to our scene...

only my view.... and at the end of the day I can't give a funk about what other people do.. as long as i'm happy and so are the dancers when I do my spot...

Which is cool Mischief, and I understand the respect angle totally but if I were deejaying with Ginger or any other DJ there would be no possibility whatsoever of me replicating any tunes 'cos I'd have 20k tunes at my disposal on my lappy!

My only problem would be in getting out of the venue without being lynched by the 'vinyl-only' mob LOL......

Ian D

[mischief]

My only problem would be in getting out of the venue without being lynched by the 'vinyl-only' mob LOL......

Ian D

Ian...

well at least you could run quicker than the dj chasing you with a box of 200 45's in one hand, and a bag of 50 12"'s and Lp's over his shoulder

[Ian Dewhirst]

TOTALLY 110% AGREE WITH YOU

But then that limits you to a) how much vinyl you can carry and how much vinyl you can afford.

And supposing I had a bunch of digital files which were musically superior and rarer than any vinyl which anyone else had? Should people not be allowed to hear some incredible music just because a few people want to hear them on an outdated format?

People used to think the world was flat!

And techically you can't actually have 110% 'cos 100% is the whole enchilda if you see what I mean............

Just having a bit of fun here but it always pays to have an open mind about these things.

I actually love vinyl - I just think that some people are unduly fixated by what is just a format at the end of the day.....

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

Ian...

well at least you could run quicker than the dj chasing you with a box of 200 45's in one hand, and a bag of 50 12"'s and Lp's over his shoulder

That's my whole point!

Technically I could turn up with a portable hard-drive in my shirt pocket with 20k tunes on, play for several months if need be and then get out in a hurry from the baying mob!

I can remember having to escape from North Allerton Working Men's Club once and staggering under the weight of my 400 x singles box whilst dodging a hail of bricks!

And no it wasn't because of my tunes LOL. It was barbed-up soulies v very hard miners!

Ian D

Edited June 16, 2008 by Ian Dewhirst

[mischief]

And no it wasn't because of my tunes LOL. It was barbed-up soulies v very hard miners!

Ian D

what kids you all run from a load of little kids

[Ian Dewhirst]

what kids you all run from a load of little kids

LOL, not the kind of kids you wanna meet on a pissing down night in North Allerton!

Ian D

[Cunnie]

Why the above soundclip?

Well it's only legally released on CD but some rather dubious 12" copy's are flying around.

Just seems crazy to me that folks would rather play it off the 'dodgy' 12" copy than play the original CD copy that also sounds far better.

Also posted it cos it's a bloody good track & a great album as well.

[Bazza]

Well ,ive got about 10k tunes on my laptop,can I DJ for ya please mister can i can I

only joking ,before I get slaughtered...

Bazza

[Kevinkent]

But then that limits you to a) how much vinyl you can carry and how much vinyl you can afford.

And supposing I had a bunch of digital files which were musically superior and rarer than any vinyl which anyone else had? Should people not be allowed to hear some incredible music just because a few people want to hear them on an outdated format?

People used to think the world was flat!

And techically you can't actually have 110% 'cos 100% is the whole enchilda if you see what I mean............

Just having a bit of fun here but it always pays to have an open mind about these things.

I actually love vinyl - I just think that some people are unduly fixated by what is just a format at the end of the day.....

Ian D

Apologies for nicking this article from another part of the site, but it seems to fit in well on this thread:-

"Many audio purists, musicians and engineers - among them Sir George Martin - argue that the traditional vinyl disc offers better sound as it carries frequencies which, although above the range of our hearing are nevertheless perceived by the brain and therefore add to the realism and thus to our enjoyment of recorded music."

[Ian Dewhirst]

Apologies for nicking this article from another part of the site, but it seems to fit in well on this thread:-

"Many audio purists, musicians and engineers - among them Sir George Martin - argue that the traditional vinyl disc offers better sound as it carries frequencies which, although above the range of our hearing are nevertheless perceived by the brain and therefore add to the realism and thus to our enjoyment of recorded music."

Can't disagree with that Kevin.

In fact I spent 5 years as Head Of A&R for a company called Simply Vinyl and did over 700 high-quality vinyl album re-issues between 1997-2002 but saw declining sales every year until I left. Needless to say the company is now no longer in existence along with most of the vinyl pressing plants. Time has moved on mate.

Unfortunately.

Ian D

[Kevinkent]

It's just a pity then that some venues play vinyl on shite sound systems.

Sort of defeats the object really.

[Guest lifeandsoul]

I'm with ian d in that format doesn't matter to me - I've never been anal about vinyl anyway. However whilst i don't buy vinyl anymore, maybe an odd 12" here and there, I'm not gonna sell my vinyl or be bothered to convert it. (though i do have a box of duplicates that have sat it boxes since the 70's and maybe i'll bother to list them at some point)

So where I am asked to DJ at a 'proper' northern event i would play original vinyl out of respect (as mentioned above also) to the event, the promoters and other DJ's (this isn't very often as its not where by heads at but it is fun from time to time)

Otherwise it doesn't matter to me except that the source must be legitimate. I wouldn't play 'out' a track that I had been given on a CDR by someone, but I would play a CDR if I had the source CD or vinyl or purchased download.

I would guess that as and if we move towards laptops a lot of tracks on peoples computers are acquired from friends, or filesharing, or some other 'illegitimate source'

How all that is 'policed' I don't know other than the fact that I know!

[pikeys dog]

Does nobody use the search site facility?

This discusion must come up at least three times a year with the same answers going round and round in circles.

Gonna say something i thought I'd never say.

I don't give a flying f*ck at a rolling donut anymore.

Play it off whatever you want, just so long as you advertise it on your flyers.

That way i can decide where I want to go without any nasty suprises.

[jocko]

Does nobody use the search site facility?

This discusion must come up at least three times a year with the same answers going round and round in circles.

Gonna say something i thought I'd never say.

I don't give a flying f*ck at a rolling donut anymore.

Play it off whatever you want, just so long as you advertise it on your flyers.

That way i can decide where I want to go without any nasty suprises.

I think its amazing how many share this view nowadays, totally agree.

Does this mean we can ban this discussion in future and anyone starting it gets sent to Coventry for a week.

Still think the real answer is if you have to ask you should have your vinyl, original or otherwise, confiscated!!

[Albert Petit]

Carvers, EMI Discs, tapes, compilation cds, mp3s, reissues, pressings, re-recordings etc.

Of course if a soul event announces any format/any soul music before the event, you know what you are getting, (Soul CDs in the sun etc) but has it really become acceptable to not play original vinyl (If thats the tunes first outing) at a Northern Soul event today?

Old thread, but have attitudes changed?

Ed

ORIGINALS ONLY !!!! THE REST IS FALSE...

[Citizen P]

I was all ready to have a rant, but fukkit.

I'm right anyway.

Tony

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

Well i am pretty much a punter all the time and i have been to venues that only have vinyl and then i have been to some that have both cd's and vinyl ie Brian rae play cd's when he comes to a Peterborough Venue. I don't have a problem however if i am gonna DJ i try and would play vinyl however

i don't know if they are all original UK or US (any would be ok for me cause it's still original) cause i may have some releases that look as if they could be original yet someone can tell me they are re-issues

I would ask on here but nothing i can do if i don't get all answers

[Sean Hampsey]

Takes balls o' steel to say all that on here Ian - even if you are a 'Northern Soul' Leg End or Stalwart of sorts!

Didn't tha know there's, nowadays, a set of 'RULES' in force?

Not like when we were lads, just having a kick about in street!

It's a bit like being int' football league. Thas got to play by rules.

Tha can't be goin just playing good n' tasty Soul music we're ever tha likes!

Tha's got to earn thi stripes wi payin' thru nose for t'old vinyl jobby's!

Only proper stuff mind!

We'll be having none of that there 'techno 'eresy' amongst us Northern Soul types.

If t'old vinyl was good enough for me grandad, it's good enough for me (and thee) I'll have thi know!

You couldn't make it up Ian.

Well said, to all of the above!

Sean

Having just spent the last 2 days buried in my record room refiling my 7"'s, all I can say is physical formats are a pain in the ass and make no sense in this day and age.

One can study a record and marvel at the physical beauty of it for a little while but ultimately it's just a format in the same way that cylinders, 78's, 8 track cartridges and cassettes were in their day. I'm much more bothered about what comes out of the speakers ultimately and that can be from any source.

I think I've probably got over my vinyl addiction at the right time to be honest and I'm beginning to realise that knocking your brains out and emptying your pockets to possess a 7" piece of plastic makes about as much sense as using a CB radio or even two tin cans and a piece of string to communicate with someone.

Mind you, it's taken a good 40+ years for the penny to drop LOL.

Vinyl is quaint but hopelessly outmoded in this day and age. In the last 2 years I've discovered more tunes by crate-digging 1000's of blogs then I ever did from countless trips to the U.S. I've found at least 10 of the best tunes I've ever heard in 40 years of collecting simply by crate-digging from my sofa!

Vinyl collecting makes sense if you're of a certain age and mindset but in the grand scheme of things, music formats have moved on.

And the dust, the weight, the stylus replacement and the hours of re-filing have kind of outlasted the appeal for me personally.

Naturally there'll be mostly die-hard vinyl freaks on here who wear their collections like a badge of honour, like my mate who has 1000's of blues 78's lovingly kept in his huge garage but mostly plays 'em to an audience of one these days LOL. And don't get me wrong, even though I have 20K tunes on my lappy I'll always keep a few thousand vinyl 'cos old habits die hard.

But I think the future will be all about knowledge and taste in music and the format will be electronic, simply because that's what makes the most sense in this day and age.

It may even be a good thing as it will free up playlists, liberate people and let the music spread on it's own merits rather than be confined by whether it's rare or not.

Difficult for some to take I know but things move on and technology can be embraced positively if you want to. Soul Source is the living example.

Ian D

[TOAD]

sent to Coventry for a week.

DONT BOTHER COMING HERE THERES NO SOUL !

[Spacehopper]

I don't see why they should be played when there are plenty of good 10 20 30 £ records out their that never get played.

this is the best reason for a bootleg ban.....those who cannot afford the originals would have to play wicked tunes that they wouldnt normally which for the normal punter (not obsessed vinyl collector) would mean hearing new discoveries every gig....which would also mean that you wouldnt here the big tunes everywhere you go and wouldnt get so bored with them....

@ go go children in bristol we have a bootleg ban and not a night goes by without someone coming up and asking about a cheapie theyve never heard before but go away searchin for....it also means when i do a scooter club do i can get a buzz from playing the boots of the tunes i cant afford and havnt played for a while

as for cds.....not for me but if a promoter wants to and can take the flack from the other promoters/djs im sure most of the dancers wont give a shit

[Spacehopper]

yes its easier and cheaper to collect tunes from home on your laptop but at the end of the day is it so much fun ?....tunes are cheaper (unless you get in a bidding war with someone) on ebay but at the expense of secondhand record shops which i loved looking through on a saturday....

nowadays everything it seems has to be easy....boring !.....if we all went for easy who would ride a lammy wed all have a twist and go...boring !

[mischief]

it also means when i do a scooter club do i can get a buzz from playing the boots of the tunes i cant afford and havnt played for a while

why whats the differnce, soul do or scooter do.. most of my friends are scooterist and soulies and attend both types of do, and they should be treated with the same respect where ever they go.. if I dj for them say at Exeter Soul club I play Originals when they come to the IOW I play originals.. just because they are going on a rally they don't loose thier knowledge and I don't lose my respect for the music either...

if I ain't got it on an original I won't play it..

I also think this is why scooter do's can get stuck in a time warp, dj's should give them some thing new.. like the northern scene..

[Tomangoes]

Thanks for all the comments.

The thread was to see if attidudes are changing, and in most cases they are.

There can never be a replacement for rare vinyl being played, especially if its a record with only a handfull of copies ever found, but at the same time the vinyl cant last forever as a playable format.

Also with so many collectors getting their mits on record label master tapes, its obvious that some great tunes are made into a cd first and carver second, so contradictions appear.

Its not likely that undiscovered vinyl class Northern Soul records are going to turn up very often anymore, and to me thats why there are so many rock and roll and disco records (lets not kid ourselves) coming onto the scene that would have resulted 30 years ago in the DJ who played them getting 'ejected' from the decks.

As with everything else in life, a compromise has to be adopted in terms of format, but not for quality. I would rather bend a bit on format than have a vinyl only format and listen to some of the recent dross that qualifies for a play coz its on vinyl.

Now I'm off to Coventry as well.

Ed

PS - Anybody selling hard drives with 20000 Northern/Soul/motown/70s/x0ver LET ME KNOW (For personal use only).

Edited June 17, 2008 by tomangoes

[Chalky]

There can never be a replacement for rare vinyl being played, especially if its a record with only a handfull of copies ever found, but at the same time the vinyl cant last forever as a playable format.

Ed

Why not? Kids are finding and getting into vinyl again, admittedly not on the scale of years gone by but vinyl sales are rising amongst kids. It's the idea of actually having something to hold and cherish rather than a virtual track that is starting to appeal. MP3s, ipods etc are here to stay but vinyl hasn't yet gone away.