Carvers

[Bazza]

Any carvers you could play without be chastised for,unreleased corkers

here is one

Jimmy Ruffin - Lucky Lucky Me

tune in next post

Bazza

Edited June 2, 2008 by bazza

[Guest bazabod_downunder]

Got this done......Delfonics - Hurts So Bad.....the better version IHMO altho the Cathy Carlson version is mighty fine as well.

Here's the Delfonics version.

KTF

Baz

Delfonics___Hurt_So_Bad.mp3

[Guest]

Got this done......Delfonics - Hurts So Bad.....the better version IHMO altho the Cathy Carlson version is mighty fine as well.

Here's the Delfonics version.

KTF

Baz

Cant ya' do a reffo clip ? ,now every chuff will be at carvers now

[ChrisOD1964]

Any carvers ???? what be a carver baz not heard this term before??

chris

[Harry Crosby]

Any carvers ???? what be a carver baz not heard this term before??

chris

its have a disc cut from cd chris

[Harry Crosby]

Anyone got a TIN OPENER! for the CAN OF WORMS about to be opened here

[ChrisOD1964]

its have a disc cut from cd chris

thats what i thought harry

chris

[Guest]

Anyone got a TIN OPENER! for the CAN OF WORMS about to be opened here

Yeh!!should be in media .....

[Eddie Hubbard]

Got this done......Delfonics - Hurts So Bad.....the better version IHMO altho the Cathy Carlson version is mighty fine as well.

Here's the Delfonics version.

KTF

Baz

Great version ,I've got this on a Delfonics album .Cheers ,Eddie

[Ian Dewhirst]

Got this done......Delfonics - Hurts So Bad.....the better version IHMO altho the Cathy Carlson version is mighty fine as well.

Here's the Delfonics version.

KTF

Baz

Great record - utterly brilliant!

Sounds like the same session as "You'll Get Enough".

Where did this crop up? Is it off the "La La I Love You" album...........?

Ian D

[Steve G]

Any carvers you could play without be chastised for,unreleased corkers

here is one

Jimmy Ruffin - Lucky Lucky Me

tune in next post

Bazza

Yes happy to play carvers of me unissued acetate stuff (to preserve the acetate), one off's in dodgy condition which have been cleaned up, and cover ups.

[Steve Plumb]

Yes happy to play carvers of me unissued acetate stuff (to preserve the acetate), one off's in dodgy condition which have been cleaned up, and cover ups.

yes Steve but when you play your carver, would you then have to bring the unissued acetates, one off's in dodgy condition which have been cleaned up, and cover ups with you to prove that you still own them

Don't answer that mate, I'm only joking

Incidently, I do actually carry two copies of Mel Britt with me on occasions.................one's the 70's FIP boot and one's the orig FIP that plays with a bit of hiss. The boot sounds great whilst the orig sounds, well a bit hissy! Not that I play it out that often (although of course it's one of me favourite records ever!) but when i do i always bottle out and play the orig (to the detriment of the sound but not to my ego)

Going back to my first paragraph, i should carver the boot and bring out the orig as proof if the Soul Police come a calling ..............I'm also joking with this too, so please nobody jump down me throat!

Cheers

Steve

[Harrogatesoul]

Any carvers you could play without be chastised for,unreleased corkers

here is one

Jimmy Ruffin - Lucky Lucky Me

tune in next post

Bazza

Liked Steve G's response best. However dont be buying and playing these! (I know we wouldn't) Click link below.

EBAY BOOTER AGAIN!

Rich

[Simon M]

Yes happy to play carvers of me unissued acetate stuff (to preserve the acetate), one off's in dodgy condition which have been cleaned up, and cover ups.

Why do you have to carver coverups , are they LP tracks really ?

[Guest]

Liked Steve G's response best. However dont be buying and playing these! (I know we wouldn't) Click link below.

EBAY BOOTER AGAIN!

Rich

Obviously some guy whos seen that Chatahoochee or whatever he`s called gets away with blatently bootleging 100`s & 100`s of rare 45`s without Ebay batting an eye!........this sort of thing is supposed to be against Ebay rules for fecks sake

They removed one of my listings.....just one! (a live CD) because they said it was a factory made "unofficial" bootleg.......bought off Ebay a couple of weeks before

This is well out of order IMO!!!

I also have a carve of Hank Jacobs - Elijah....the 4 and a half minute version to save me having to lug the album around.

Edited June 2, 2008 by Guest

[Harrogatesoul]

It is and we've covered it often enough but it's still galling. A quick look through the ebay listings and a good % of items on there are bootlegs etc often sold by a handful of sellers - Some even make daft money!

Rich

[Bazza]

Yes happy to play carvers of me unissued acetate stuff (to preserve the acetate), one off's in dodgy condition which have been cleaned up, and cover ups.

Yep ,good reasons , I would add

Big money rare tunes,because over time if played regularly, they will begin to fade,depending on the quality of the vinyl,and systems played on, and that would be a great shame , I would not like to think my precious vinyl was being played on an unknown system

and CD only tracks....its just plain daft to me,to say you cant play a great tune just cos it was never released on vinyl

A can of worms as one of you said

Bazza

oh and the "Parliaments - this is my rainy day" ...only joking

Edited June 2, 2008 by bazza

[Guest dundeedavie]

Yep ,good reasons , I would add

Big money rare tunes,because over time if played regularly, they will begin to fade,depending on the quality of the vinyl,and systems played on, and that would be a great shame , I would not like to think my precious vinyl was being played on an unknown system

A can of worms as one of you said

Bazza

i strongly disagree .... but then thats an opinion , nothing more

cd only tracks , album tracks (but only when travelling and i can't carry the albums) , 78's (when not using 78 compatible decks) and unreleased stuff

thats my personal opinion on carvers

[Chalky]

agree with Steve G about acetates, bet there's been a few ruined with dodgy needles and decks. Also get the unissued stuff cut, how you gonna hear it out otherwise?

[De-to]

its have a disc cut from cd chris

imo mostly illegally cut from cd or vinyl,

[Bazza]

imo mostly illegally cut from cd or vinyl,

If you own the CD would it be illegal...I dunno ?

Bazza

[Eddie Hubbard]

Great record - utterly brilliant!

Sounds like the same session as "You'll Get Enough".

Where did this crop up? Is it off the "La La I Love You" album...........?

Ian D

Yes it is Ian , best ,Eddie

[De-to]

If you own the CD would it be illegal...I dunno ?

Bazza

not sure bazza but its probably an artist royalty thingy,

[Harrogatesoul]

I would have thought it is illegal! Its probably where those sellers on ebay are getting all these boots samples from. Nice high quality tracks paid and mastered by labels such as Kent etc. I'm sure practice over the years has been some carvers/acetates have been cut with permission to promote tracks and/or forthcoming releases but as vinyl still rules in collecting circles it hasn't stopped certain people making a fair bit of brass from illegal boots/carvers whatever. All the same IMHO.

Rich

[Guest SteveC]

Where do you draw the line - I presume the line moves in accordance with each individual!!

For example I can understanding cutting LP/CD tracks only. Perfectly acceptable (unless someone hasn't brought the LP and has had an MP3 cut - guilty as charged I'm afraid)......but what about tracks that were never issued but are in existance as "real/orig" acetates. For me they're as good as issued stuff whether they be issues or promos.

[De-to]

I would have thought it is illegal! Its probably where those sellers on ebay are getting all these boots samples from. Nice high quality tracks paid and mastered by labels such as Kent etc. I'm sure practice over the years has been some carvers/acetates have been cut with permission to promote tracks and/or forthcoming releases but as vinyl still rules in collecting circles it hasn't stopped certain people making a fair bit of brass from illegal boots/carvers whatever. All the same IMHO.

Rich

i agree with you rich but sadly it will never stop as you know if theres a buck to be made etc etc!!!,

[Steve G]

Why do you have to carver coverups , are they LP tracks really ?

No to prevent having to put sticky tape on the label.

[Steve G]

yes Steve but when you play your carver, would you then have to bring the unissued acetates, one off's in dodgy condition which have been cleaned up, and cover ups with you to prove that you still own them

Cheers

Steve

well I will answer Stevie, as with me I'd still have the orig vinyl, though I understand one or two "Dee Jays" are now selling the original vinyl and playing the carvers - cheap skates on the basis that they used to have the vinyl ......naughty but apparantly true.

[Simon M]

No to prevent having to put sticky tape on the label.

[Cunnie]

i strongly disagree .... but then thats an opinion , nothing more

cd only tracks , album tracks (but only when travelling and i can't carry the albums) , 78's (when not using 78 compatible decks) and unreleased stuff

thats my personal opinion on carvers

CD only tracks? - Play the CD

Album tracks? - Play the album

You guy's on the Northern scene don't realise how lucky you are.

Odd time I get booked to DJ on't Modern scene I normally have a box of 7's, a box of CD's & a rather large box of 12's/albums.

Roll on the i pod DJ revoloution so I can turn up with my spot in my pocket

[Mark Bicknell]

well I will answer Stevie, as with me I'd still have the orig vinyl, though I understand one or two "Dee Jays" are now selling the original vinyl and playing the carvers - cheap skates on the basis that they used to have the vinyl ......naughty but apparantly true.

If this is true then it's a disgrace in my book, bit like having your cake and eating it so to speak, I've moved loads of rare records over the years and it never entered my head to get a dub/carver cut, cheating really, sell it be done with it and move on with something else, far too many short cut's being taken these day's and it really goes against the grain being that the basis of this scene is about rare and hard to find records in many instances, unissued and preserving rare one off's etc. is common sense and a different issue I'm talking about doing a carver of some shit rare hard to find gem like some of the stuff being sold on Ebay for example, total bollocks for pretend DJ's and shame on anyone who cut's a dub off their original and sells it on and even worse if they did'nt own the record in the first place, holding these dubs/carvers or whatever you want to call them is a total nonsence they have no collectable value, they are as already stated totally illegal and playing them at a venue holds no substance or credability it's just being totally lazy and void of any passion or respect for the records in the first place, just another shitty little practice that seems to go on.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Bazza]

If this is true then it's a disgrace in my book, bit like having your cake and eating it so to speak, I've moved loads of rare records over the years and it never entered my head to get a dub/carver cut, cheating really, sell it be done with it and move on with something else, far too many short cut's being taken these day's and it really goes against the grain being that the basis of this scene is about rare and hard to find records in many instances, unissued and preserving rare one off's etc. is common sense and a different issue I'm talking about doing a carver of some shit rare hard to find gem like some of the stuff being sold on Ebay for example, total bollocks for pretend DJ's and shame on anyone who cut's a dub off their original and sells it on and even worse if they did'nt own the record in the first place, holding these dubs/carvers or whatever you want to call them is a total nonsence they have no collectable value, they are as already stated totally illegal and playing them at a venue holds no substance or credability it's just being totally lazy and void of any passion or respect for the records in the first place, just another shitty little practice that seems to go on.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

All very well Mark, but the topic I started was not about bootlegs, I was really referring to unissued, or CD only tracks, being carved..we all know about bootlegs

Bazza

[Mark Bicknell]

All very well Mark, but the topic I started was not about bootlegs, I was really referring to unissued, or CD only tracks, being carved..we all know about bootlegs

Bazza

Fair enough Bazza but this was mentioned mate.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Spacehopper]

got no problem with unissued tracks cut from cds....at bridgewater this year a wicked slower cut of i surrender by eddie holman was played...had a peak at the decks and was a white label 7 asked the dj and he said was cut from unissued tapes (probably meant cd !)...but am glad he played it... was awesome.....play the cd ?....nah ...i know some will think its stupid but i cant help it

[Steve G]

got no problem with unissued tracks cut from cds....at bridgewater this year a wicked slower cut of i surrender by eddie holman was played...had a peak at the decks and was a white label 7 asked the dj and he said was cut from unissued tapes (probably meant cd !)...but am glad he played it... was awesome.....play the cd ?....nah ...i know some will think its stupid but i cant help it

No that's an album track. It has been issued.

Mark some of these carver merchants may be closer to home that you might think. I agree a very poor practice, but they still get "booked" - presumably now on the strength of their "carvers".

[Simon M]

Carvers have gone crazy ..It seems everyone has an excuse to have them these days . I heard that one of the clauses in the King Moses deal, was that the DJ had a carver cut so he could still use it . Also I was shocked to hear that Keb had a carver of the Royal Esquires all those years ago albeit covered up as the Embers .

[Guest nusha]

Has KEB not sold his collection and DJs totally with carvers?

[chrissie]

Obviously some guy whos seen that Chatahoochee or whatever he`s called gets away with blatently bootleging 100`s & 100`s of rare 45`s without Ebay batting an eye

Not to be mixed with chatahoochee3 who is a genuine seller.

QoFxx

[Benji]

Carvers have gone crazy ..It seems everyone has an excuse to have them these days . I heard that one of the clauses in the King Moses deal, was that the DJ had a carver cut so he could still use it . Also I was shocked to hear that Keb had a carver of the Royal Esquires all those years ago albeit covered up as the Embers .

weren't carvers or EMI discs played by "top djs" part and parcel of the scene since the 70s? as a matter of facts, one well known UK dj had a whole bunch of EMI discs when he came over to Germany in the late 80s/early 90s. reason was, he bought pretty expensive discs, cut his EMI discs and sold the original 45s on. another example, years ago Pete Smith had Rob Marriotts EMI disc dub of Butchs Diane Lewis cover up for sale. Think the story was, that part of a record deal was that Rob did get a tape recording of the original acetate.

So, carvers are nothing new IMO. yet, due to exposure on and the distribution of information via the internet, lots of people think this is something rather recent.

[Chalky]

weren't carvers or EMI discs played by "top djs" part and parcel of the scene since the 70s? as a matter of facts, one well known UK dj had a whole bunch of EMI discs when he came over to Germany in the late 80s/early 90s. reason was, he bought pretty expensive discs, cut his EMI discs and sold the original 45s on. another example, years ago Pete Smith had Rob Marriotts EMI disc dub of Butchs Diane Lewis cover up for sale. Think the story was, that part of a record deal was that Rob did get a tape recording of the original acetate.

So, carvers are nothing new IMO. yet, due to exposure on and the distribution of information via the internet, lots of people think this is something rather recent.

Plenty of records cut to Emi's years ago for exposure. Whether or not they actually had the expensive disc in the first place is debateable.

Rob's Diane Lewis cut is as far as I know with his brother Chris. There was at the time several done and a few got one, without Butchs knowledge so I was led to believe.

Edited June 3, 2008 by chalky

[Chalky]

At the end of the day there are enough DJ's and collectors with the actual records and actual acetates mixed in with cuts of unissued stuff to satisfy the needs of the scene so there is no excuse for any promoter to book someone who plays cuts and doesn't have the real records (all IMHO of course).

And what's the point of wasting another £20 to cut an lp track when the lp doesn't weigh that much more. It's £20 to spend on more records

[Jez Jones]

weren't carvers or EMI discs played by "top djs" part and parcel of the scene since the 70s? as a matter of facts, one well known UK dj had a whole bunch of EMI discs when he came over to Germany in the late 80s/early 90s. reason was, he bought pretty expensive discs, cut his EMI discs and sold the original 45s on. another example, years ago Pete Smith had Rob Marriotts EMI disc dub of Butchs Diane Lewis cover up for sale. Think the story was, that part of a record deal was that Rob did get a tape recording of the original acetate.

So, carvers are nothing new IMO. yet, due to exposure on and the distribution of information via the internet, lots of people think this is something rather recent.

Certainly one or two 'lower end dj's' around the time would play them out. remember circa 71/72 i picked up a Dean parrish ---Determination green stateside demo. Pleased as punch went to a local 'village hall ' soul night with it in me 50 box and half hour later determination was played. Out of curiosity jumped up on stage to see what he had it on-------white labelled emidisc with dr love Bobby Sheen on the flip.

I said I just paid 5 quid for mine he said he paid a quid and had bought a few different ones at the same time. He said' how else are people going to hear these types of records' I couldn't answer him .

[Spacehopper]

No that's an album track. It has been issued.

Mark some of these carver merchants may be closer to home that you might think. I agree a very poor practice, but they still get "booked" - presumably now on the strength of their "carvers".

guess he lied to me then..unless he was just mistaken ....learn sumfin new everyday !

[Steve G]

guess he lied to me then..unless he was just mistaken ....learn sumfin new everyday !

and that my friend is the beauty of soul source....

[Steve G]

Carvers have gone crazy ..It seems everyone has an excuse to have them these days . I heard that one of the clauses in the King Moses deal, was that the DJ had a carver cut so he could still use it .

Yes and that wasn't a problem for the buyer as at the time it was a total one off and the seller wanted to keep a copy (i.e. it was before the 2nd copy turned up).

[Simsy]

Any carvers you could play without be chastised for,unreleased corkers

Save for Dave R ...

[Mark Bicknell]

Certainly one or two 'lower end dj's' around the time would play them out. remember circa 71/72 i picked up a Dean parrish ---Determination green stateside demo. Pleased as punch went to a local 'village hall ' soul night with it in me 50 box and half hour later determination was played. Out of curiosity jumped up on stage to see what he had it on-------white labelled emidisc with dr love Bobby Sheen on the flip.

I said I just paid 5 quid for mine he said he paid a quid and had bought a few different ones at the same time. He said' how else are people going to hear these types of records' I couldn't answer him .

Jez the thing is you could have answered him as you had the answer in your 50 box mate....the original!

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

[Simon M]

Yes and that wasn't a problem for the buyer as at the time it was a total one off and the seller wanted to keep a copy (i.e. it was before the 2nd copy turned up).

But thats the case with many carvers "The seller wants to keep a copy"

I dont see how you can condone it after whats been said

Edited June 3, 2008 by Simon M

[Jez Jones]

Jez the thing is you could have answered him as you had the answer in your 50 box mate....the original!

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Yes Mark fair play on that. Just that I was gobsmacked ,young naive and first time the problem had arose-----and this has been repeated down the years a thousand times with loads of folk . I wasn't the first and won't be the last unfortunately.

[Weingarden]

i guess i have a different perspective on this, maybe because i'm not part of the scene. i have a handful of "carvers," maybe 4 or 5 two-siders, that i've had made from the following sources: (1) structurally unsound one-off acetates that may stop being usable at any moment (there seems to be some agreement that that's an approved practice, right?), (2) previously unissued tracks that appear on cd (ditto), and (3), more controversially, one-off or two-off or three-off singles i've sold or traded away because they just became too expensive to hold on to anymore. i really don't feel i have to prove anything to anyone, and if i want to play these at the bar night in new york that i've been doing for 12 years now because they're the ghosts of fantastic records whose sounds i still cherish but whose carcasses i couldn't afford to keep, i don't see the problem with it. perhaps i should advertise "99.99 percent originals, .01 percent dubs i've had made from originals i once owned genuine copies of." and then if people choose to stay away based on my politics, they're informed enough to be able to do so.

Edited June 3, 2008 by weingarden