The Soul Scene

[Guest Matt Male]

mark im not having a go at you in fact ive commented to you on your enthusasim

what made me laugh is the orig viynal quote from a fellow nuneaton dj!

Eh? Why does it make you laugh? Do you doubt i only play original vinyl or believe it should be ONO? This is my personal point of view and nothing to do with Nuneaton Coop and what Mark believes as a promotor. I play original vinyl only and i wish others would but i still end up on the stage with people playing CDs and boots. That's the way it is these days unfortunately.

What's your point exactly? Are you saying i'm a hypocrite because i share the stage with others who don't play ONO?

[Wiganer1]

Exactly my point Tim. This is the experience i'm talking about. I was on the spot just before Russ and the first thing he said to me when he came up was 'How does the CD player work?' and I said i hadn't got a clue.

I've had endless discussions (arguments maybe) with Mark over the playing of boots/CDs at Nuneaton when he asks my advice. I never play them when i DJ there and i wish others wouldn't but it's not my call as i'm not the promotor and it's not my money on the line. I only help advertise Nuneaton and did the website to promote the venue but Mark and Fordy say what goes. It's up to them.

So far Nuneaton has been massively successful, it's been absolutely rammed for the last three dates at least. I doubt there's a soul night in the country that's better attended. Maybe being an oldies night makes a difference with less pressure to play rarely played stuff, who knows?

====

yes we've had our 'discussion's aint we Matt?

at the end of the day you have to give the punters what they want and try and educate them in the process if at all possible...

at nuneaton i dont want the large dancefloor to be empty for a huge amount of time just for the sake of playing lesser known stuff but i am all for mixing in the odd new one or lesser played track as it adds to the enjoyment of the night. The Djs concerned should know when or not his spot is working and that includes myself - at the end of the day dancefloors are for dancing on.

great discussion point this by the way..

best

mark

[Guest Matt Male]

====

yes we've had our 'discussion's aint we Matt?

at the end of the day you have to give the punters what they want and try and educate them in the process if at all possible...

at nuneaton i dont want the large dancefloor to be empty for a huge amount of time just for the sake of playing lesser known stuff but i am all for mixing in the odd new one or lesser played track as it adds to the enjoyment of the night. The Djs concerned should know when or not his spot is working and that includes myself - at the end of the day dancefloors are for dancing on.

great discussion point this by the way..

best

mark

I agree, it's hard to argue with a full dancefloor whether the DJs are playing original, boots, CDs whatever... and i've said to you a hundred times that i respect your judgement because you are the promotor and at the end of the day you are responsible for the success of the coop and to be honest your judgement has proved correct.

Is that enough creeping...? I'll buy you a pint Friday...

[Dave Moore]

Thats 2 references to middle aged t...s. I am one of these, possibly the worst dancer the scene has ever seen,

B*lloX! That title belongs to me. :lol:

Probably 60% of people on here are middle aged. If you don't like us being around why go to venues?

[Madmandy]

I'd just like to add that its now 2008 a very different world to the "good old days"

most of us travel to do's by car no longer B/Rail or a long bus journey

I choose not to wear "the northern soul uniform" any more.. some do (their choice)

Wigan is no more ....I understand the phenomenon but NEVER visited..a shame really would have liked to visit.

Things enevitably do move on wether any of us like it or not

I bought a record I thought was a bargain on Ebay to find that its a bootleg( I assume that didnt happen in the 1970s)...maybe it still is a bargain because I got the same sound in those little grooves as some DJ who paid megabucks for theirs! they pay megabucks for their copy because its an original

I bought mine because I like the tune (and its a relatively new sound to me even tho its an oldie)

Thats life!

Mand

Edited May 29, 2008 by Madmandy

[SHEFFSOUL]

The single greatest problem with the contemporary northern soul scene surely is that there are far too many people who "wanna be" - or pretend to be - DJ's .

Loads of 'em right here on Soul Source.

And these people have their own very personal and very subjective perspective on what they think should be played at a northern soul night and what they think the rest of the scene should be listening to .

Many of them only started to become serious collectors/DJ on their return to the scene because they now have much greater disposable income than they had when they were 19 years old, and rare records are much more easily accessible (just a credit card away on ebay and the internet).

Sadly the total sum of their record collections is pathetically limited and often runs to no more than a couple of hundred records, which they regularly turn over (sell one rarity to buy another one to DJ with : " oh ... I used to have that once ").

Even worse, their knowledge of soul music and what we used to call "black music" in general is minimal by anyone's standards and usually limited to the Top 500 northern !

And then the same people also see themselves as promoters. So they put on a little local soul night in some old backwater pub with maybe 50 people in, have 6 or 7 of their mates DJing with their boots and they tell us "we had a great night" but moan as to why they didn't have a 1000 in , instead of a paltry 50 , or moan about why young people don't turn up !

My understanding is that in the 60's and 70's just about all the legendary northern DJ's such as Searling Levine Curtis Soul Sam etc all had not only fairly massive record collections at a young age but had also established a love and breadth of knowledge of not only soul music but all related types of black music. They were regular working DJ's who knew how to DJ and knew how to work a crowd. They were serious players and they were right on top of their game and all the punters and dancers just knew they were in safe hands with Searling and Curtis and the others at the controls.

And until Wigan came along , the great venues only had at most two or three DJ's who played for the whole night. Fantastic ! The old timers tell me for example that one of the great things about the Torch was that Minshull and Curtis had several hours each to themselves to take people on a fabulous musical trip all night. They had time to work their sets , as well as the knowledge and the records to produce the goods . None of this nonsense that started with Wigan whereby you have 12 different DJs playing for a mere hour each over the course of the night ! How can a great DJ show their worth in an hour ? Easy for the hopeless DJ with a limited collection and even more limited knowledge of music to cover up his inadequacies when he only has to play 20 records in an hour ! And then you get repeat records played !

Just imagine, if you were booking Butch and Soul Sam for a night, why wouldn't you ask to play them three or four hours each instead of banging them in with 10 other fourth and fifth divison DJs for an hour at a time ?

And at the Twisted Wheel, it's well known that the DJ wasn't even that important . If you were a collector in those days and you found a rare and great record you took it along to the Wheel and gave it to whoever was behind the decks so that they could play it to the faithful. Legendary collectors like Brian Phillips (and even Levine apparently at that early stage) had no aspirations about becoming star DJs and personal glory for getting credit for finding and playing a rare record. No one cared as long as the record was heard.

And in the 60's and 70s there were only maybe two or three serious major venues at any one time driving the scene forward, supported of course by several smaller venues which also had an important role to play. There was a sense of unity and community of purpose amongst the punters and dancers. Everyone basically turned up as one.

Actually, it wouldn't take that much for the scene to again reach the heady heights of the 60's and 70s. All you need is one really big flash commercial club venue in London (to attract the newer younger crowd!) and another similar venue somewhere up north (capacity 1,500-2,000 each) . Make it a regular weekly allnighter every Saturday so you don't even need to think about what you're going to be doing from week to week. But at the same time advertise the scene to the general English public - don't be afraid to market and promote the product !

No different for example to the Premier League when football in the UK re-invented itself. Brand spanking new venues , the best players, promote the product. Great ! Can't miss ! Just don't eventually sell out to foreign billionaires !

Have only the very best 4 or 5 scene DJs (plus maybe a Euro guest and a young up and comer DJ) playing at least a couple of hours each for the whole night . The whole spectrum of music will be played - Top 500, new 60's discoveries , modern , and even the Kings Go Forth (if you must!). If one of the DJs plays something you don't like, don't moan .... just sit down , keep quiet , be patient and then get back on the floor when something you like comes on.

Send a nice little letter to all the wannabee little local DJs dotted around the country and tell em to put their nice little DJ boxes away and just turn up to the big nights each week and just be punters again.

Quite simple really.

Anyone out there want to join me in a new business venture?

Nah, but what you're saying is mostly true.Thing is its not just northern soul. Its the world we live in..too many cooks..once upon a time only the serious & dedicated usually succeeded now info & knowledge can be cherrry picked from the net.As Warhol said " Everyone will be famous for 15 mins.." Competition is intense, & of course the result is ..it gets diluted.Glad I enjoyed Northern in its heyday..or at least I thought so..72-75.

[Guest]

YES, it most certainly is...undoubtably.

OOPS! sorry I thought it said UP it's own arse!

Well some people are!

But then if you tell them, you are foul mouthed!

[Dave Moore]

Well some people are!

But then if you tell them, you are foul mouthed!

Check out yer signature block Madam. People in glass houses.......

[Maark]

I take on board what you're saying Chalky but isn't one of the central issues to this whole discussion - if not the central issue - all about taking the scene on to a whole new level and bringing on board a whole new wave of (predominantly younger) people ?

As for those currently on the scene, well, those with an open mind and who can see beyond the horizon will come along for another bloody great ride , while the rest ... well they are free to choose to gracefully slip away if they like . And that's OK too. It's their choice.

If it's done in the right way and with the right people in charge who have the vision and the talent and the ability and the will to do it (and hopefully the monetary resources) , the potential would be absolutely frightening. We're talking about people who see the big picture. The really big picture.

Basic human nature tells us that if you put something new and big and exciting out there then the masses will naturally gravitate towards it. And when the product is so good - SOUL MUSIC !!! - then you're on the way, surely .

Once again, I hear stories from older friends on the original scene about what happened after the Torch shut down. Apparently the scene floundered for almost a year with no great direction or hope and then suddenly this f-cking great monster called Wigan Casino came along and ... whoosh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wigan just naturally dragged everyone and everything else along with it, right? Like a massive tsunami. And it introduced a whole lot of people who had never experienced the soul scene before.

There is unquestionably a huge number of disparate and varied groups of people out there in the UK and Europe and indeed all over the world ( beyond the narrow framework of people you're referring to) with either a serious or general or passing interest in Soul music who are just ripe for another monster like Wigan Casino to come along again and just drag them all together.

I think the only thing holding all this back is that there are a number of people on the scene who find the thought of this, well ... "frightening" ... it's a fear of losing what's been dear to their hearts for so long. And I can understand that. Perfectly normal.

But if you want to take this scene onwards and upwards then you've simply got to be prepared to do what's necessary to take it there ... even if that means leaving behind some of the people who made it so great. Sad but that's life.

The analogy with English football and its re-invention in the form of the Premier League is a perfect example of all this. Remember, English Football was in serious decline until someone had the vision and will to change everything ... and look at how that has progressed !!!

The potential for the Soul scene and soul culture , in its own way, is equally phenomenal , if the right people really want to take it there.

F**kin eck, call that progress?? I think you need a different analogy! You only have to look at the sterility of the Premiershite to see what you are advoctaing........All gloss, money and very little passion. Is that what you are calling for? And some of us might just like our crappy little clubs with our low attendances...........

Edited May 29, 2008 by Maark

[Jimmy A]

Thats 2 references to middle aged t...s. I am one of these, possibly the worst dancer the scene has ever seen, but whats that got to do with you?

Probably 60% of people on here are middle aged. If you don't like us being around why go to venues?

Didnt say i didnt like being around people i dont like being around the ones that make stupid comments.What age are you suppose to be to enjoy soul music

[KevH]

I take on board what you're saying Chalky but isn't one of the central issues to this whole discussion - if not the central issue - all about taking the scene on to a whole new level and bringing on board a whole new wave of (predominantly younger) people ?

As for those currently on the scene, well, those with an open mind and who can see beyond the horizon will come along for another bloody great ride , while the rest ... well they are free to choose to gracefully slip away if they like . And that's OK too. It's their choice.

If it's done in the right way and with the right people in charge who have the vision and the talent and the ability and the will to do it (and hopefully the monetary resources) , the potential would be absolutely frightening. We're talking about people who see the big picture. The really big picture.

Basic human nature tells us that if you put something new and big and exciting out there then the masses will naturally gravitate towards it. And when the product is so good - SOUL MUSIC !!! - then you're on the way, surely .

Once again, I hear stories from older friends on the original scene about what happened after the Torch shut down. Apparently the scene floundered for almost a year with no great direction or hope and then suddenly this f-cking great monster called Wigan Casino came along and ... whoosh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wigan just naturally dragged everyone and everything else along with it, right? Like a massive tsunami. And it introduced a whole lot of people who had never experienced the soul scene before.

There is unquestionably a huge number of disparate and varied groups of people out there in the UK and Europe and indeed all over the world ( beyond the narrow framework of people you're referring to) with either a serious or general or passing interest in Soul music who are just ripe for another monster like Wigan Casino to come along again and just drag them all together.

I think the only thing holding all this back is that there are a number of people on the scene who find the thought of this, well ... "frightening" ... it's a fear of losing what's been dear to their hearts for so long. And I can understand that. Perfectly normal.

But if you want to take this scene onwards and upwards then you've simply got to be prepared to do what's necessary to take it there ... even if that means leaving behind some of the people who made it so great. Sad but that's life.

The analogy with English football and its re-invention in the form of the Premier League is a perfect example of all this. Remember, English Football was in serious decline until someone had the vision and will to change everything ... and look at how that has progressed !!!

The potential for the Soul scene and soul culture , in its own way, is equally phenomenal , if the right people really want to take it there.

few comments to make on this post Sunnysoul.

Not sure if the central issue is bringing younger people on the scene.Do you mean get rid of the moaning types,who care enough ,and have been around a long time on the scene("let them gracefully slip away").

Replace them with fresh meat.? A nice blank canvas to work on?

The "Big Picture" paragraph sounds very corporate to me,like a business waiting to be launched on a public who didn't even realise they needed SOUL MUSIC in their lives.

The "masses might naturally gravitate to something big and exciting" ,but who would want the masses to do that.I certainly wouldn't.

Keep it a little underground?

Agree about Wigan tho',was like a tsunami,,,but ended up musically (imho) like a millpond.

Taking the scene onward and upward.Leaving people behind?.Sounds like you're cutting out the dead wood.

Remember this scene is a social one for many,passionate,but not run as a business venture.

KEV,,(part time punter,wanna be dj,knows f*ck all,returnee,35 years on the scene,likes funk,thinks the Mecca was better than Wigan,acknowledges Levines contribution to the scene...........and doesn't think the scene is on its arse).

ps..just read another of you posts re;Kings go Forth,you don't like the track,but talk of "open minded people" and "taking the scene to a whole new level" to "younger people"?

Edited May 29, 2008 by KevH

[Guest gordon russell]

soul nights to me now are just way off the mark.fatius and me were saying the other day why do you feel that you have to go to an alnighter to hear good soul music.I know thats not the case everywhere and all the time but it just seems that way.

I know some of the tunes are out of reach for some people but they dont have to be big ticket tunes,ive been to bidds and crossfire and heard £15 tunes played

One more thing some pissed up middle aged twat trying to dance and saying to me you're too young to remember this stuff dont make a great soul night!

it's not just the tunes, it's the people.the allnighter crowd are always up for it and have a ball,fed up going to soul nights where everyone is sat about,they want the same old tunes even when they have a dj who has some differant stuff,then they all start clearing off home at 11.30 cause they're tired even when the night goes on til 2.00.It's not just about big ticket tunes......betty brookes,billy davis ect ect hardly big ticket?.......remember if you act old you'll be old

[Guest gordon russell]

russ playing boots and cds at nuneaton

surely someone has put a contract out on him.....need an out of town torpedo to wack im

[Guest gordon russell]

And all this from someone who turns up with a box full of boots (apparently the originals are at home) - 5 mins before a spot, plays records that have been already played by other so called "wanna be DJ's" then leaves again Never supports any other night he hasn't been invited to DJ at.

sounds like northants and hertfordshire......you mean this happens elsewhere too?

[Stevie]

Rather than be critical of the events you don't enjoy, why not support the events you do enjoy.........Life's too short

[Reg]

it's not just the tunes, it's the people.the allnighter crowd are always up for it and have a ball,fed up going to soul nights where everyone is sat about,they want the same old tunes even when they have a dj who has some differant stuff,then they all start clearing off home at 11.30 cause they're tired even when the night goes on til 2.00.It's not just about big ticket tunes......betty brookes,billy davis ect ect hardly big ticket?.......remember if you act old you'll be old

What soul nights are you talking about? The ones I go to aren't like that at all. Is this allniter bias again...we're not hardcore enough if we don't stop out all night every weekend eh?

Edited May 29, 2008 by reg

[Quinvy]

There are venues out there that do aim to provide the quality of music I like and there is good music being played elsewhere, but it's in dribs and drabs at the majority of venues.

Despite good music getting played, it still has a long way to go till it catches up with the quality of music that was being played in the late 80's and early 90s.

Although a lot of that is probably due to the fact that there just isn't the amount of quality unknown records that there was

I think that Joan has put her finger on the real problem with this post[see above]. It's the same conclusion that I'm coming to, and what caused me to question how long we can continue at Burnley [lookbacks thread]

The last paragraph says it all.......

Phil.

Edited May 29, 2008 by quinvy

[Ian Dewhirst]

The single greatest problem with the contemporary northern soul scene surely is that there are far too many people who "wanna be" - or pretend to be - DJ's .

Loads of 'em right here on Soul Source.

And these people have their own very personal and very subjective perspective on what they think should be played at a northern soul night and what they think the rest of the scene should be listening to .

Many of them only started to become serious collectors/DJ on their return to the scene because they now have much greater disposable income than they had when they were 19 years old, and rare records are much more easily accessible (just a credit card away on ebay and the internet).

Sadly the total sum of their record collections is pathetically limited and often runs to no more than a couple of hundred records, which they regularly turn over (sell one rarity to buy another one to DJ with : " oh ... I used to have that once ").

Even worse, their knowledge of soul music and what we used to call "black music" in general is minimal by anyone's standards and usually limited to the Top 500 northern !

And then the same people also see themselves as promoters. So they put on a little local soul night in some old backwater pub with maybe 50 people in, have 6 or 7 of their mates DJing with their boots and they tell us "we had a great night" but moan as to why they didn't have a 1000 in , instead of a paltry 50 , or moan about why young people don't turn up !

My understanding is that in the 60's and 70's just about all the legendary northern DJ's such as Searling Levine Curtis Soul Sam etc all had not only fairly massive record collections at a young age but had also established a love and breadth of knowledge of not only soul music but all related types of black music. They were regular working DJ's who knew how to DJ and knew how to work a crowd. They were serious players and they were right on top of their game and all the punters and dancers just knew they were in safe hands with Searling and Curtis and the others at the controls.

And until Wigan came along , the great venues only had at most two or three DJ's who played for the whole night. Fantastic ! The old timers tell me for example that one of the great things about the Torch was that Minshull and Curtis had several hours each to themselves to take people on a fabulous musical trip all night. They had time to work their sets , as well as the knowledge and the records to produce the goods . None of this nonsense that started with Wigan whereby you have 12 different DJs playing for a mere hour each over the course of the night ! How can a great DJ show their worth in an hour ? Easy for the hopeless DJ with a limited collection and even more limited knowledge of music to cover up his inadequacies when he only has to play 20 records in an hour ! And then you get repeat records played !

Just imagine, if you were booking Butch and Soul Sam for a night, why wouldn't you ask to play them three or four hours each instead of banging them in with 10 other fourth and fifth divison DJs for an hour at a time ?

And at the Twisted Wheel, it's well known that the DJ wasn't even that important . If you were a collector in those days and you found a rare and great record you took it along to the Wheel and gave it to whoever was behind the decks so that they could play it to the faithful. Legendary collectors like Brian Phillips (and even Levine apparently at that early stage) had no aspirations about becoming star DJs and personal glory for getting credit for finding and playing a rare record. No one cared as long as the record was heard.

And in the 60's and 70s there were only maybe two or three serious major venues at any one time driving the scene forward, supported of course by several smaller venues which also had an important role to play. There was a sense of unity and community of purpose amongst the punters and dancers. Everyone basically turned up as one.

Actually, it wouldn't take that much for the scene to again reach the heady heights of the 60's and 70s. All you need is one really big flash commercial club venue in London (to attract the newer younger crowd!) and another similar venue somewhere up north (capacity 1,500-2,000 each) . Make it a regular weekly allnighter every Saturday so you don't even need to think about what you're going to be doing from week to week. But at the same time advertise the scene to the general English public - don't be afraid to market and promote the product !

No different for example to the Premier League when football in the UK re-invented itself. Brand spanking new venues , the best players, promote the product. Great ! Can't miss ! Just don't eventually sell out to foreign billionaires !

Have only the very best 4 or 5 scene DJs (plus maybe a Euro guest and a young up and comer DJ) playing at least a couple of hours each for the whole night . The whole spectrum of music will be played - Top 500, new 60's discoveries , modern , and even the Kings Go Forth (if you must!). If one of the DJs plays something you don't like, don't moan .... just sit down , keep quiet , be patient and then get back on the floor when something you like comes on.

Send a nice little letter to all the wannabee little local DJs dotted around the country and tell em to put their nice little DJ boxes away and just turn up to the big nights each week and just be punters again.

Quite simple really.

Anyone out there want to join me in a new business venture?

Yep. Sign me up LOL!

You made some very good points there Sunnysoul.

I sometimes wonder whatever happened to the sheer excitement and glamour of the scene. A lot of it was the total exhuberance of youth, fun and the attractions of a cool underground scene with very little competition if you lived up North. I was deejaying @ 16 years old and playing nighters @ 17 years old. Every weekend was an EVENT! The quality of the music and most of the DJ's was really good. The Torch, Va-Va's, Blackpool Mecca, Sheffield Samanthas, Wigan Casino and Cleethorpes were all none-miss events really.

However, the average age back then was essentially 16-25. The Northern Soul scene was really the precursor of the Rave scene which followed some 20 years later - at it's height in the mid 70's some 50,000-100,000 people would mobilize themselves and dip into the Northern scene at some point (didn't Wigan have 100,000 members at one stage?).

The best EVENT I've been to in the last few years was the Kent 25th Anniversary @ The Forum in London which was the nearest thing to a 70's event that I'd been to for years and was both packed out and obviously brilliant. What a night!

The Rocket in Highbury could have been one of the ultimate All-Nighter venues for the future but unfortunately too many egos got in the way IMO. But what a venue!

I think there's a potentially HUGE London audience for Northern Soul but it's really got to be pitched correctly.

The current scene seems to me to be too far pitched towards the conneisseurs and collectors who are old men (like me) and carry 30 years of knowledge, opinions and baggage. It seems to me to be very much deteriorating into mates who want play their records to their mates, if you see what I mean...........

Which isn't necessarily that sexy to a 17 year old soul fanatic who requires ACTION, BUZZ, INVIGORATING MUSIC TO DANCE TO and at least the POSSIBILITY that he or she might get laid LOL.....

Which isn't always possible at the Wheeltappers and Shunters monthly rarity appreciation do, if you see what I mean.

That James Trouble gig I went to in London the other week had the right idea. A great mix of people across the ages, great atmosphere, intelligent deejaying and SEXY! A good mix all round with old and new - Soul Sam was doing it for the London crowd and they loved him so age is obviously no barrier LOL....

I'm with the kids here. I want a BUZZ about a gig when I head out, not a live collector's forum - we can get that on here.

There's a potential audience of 100's of 1000's of potential Soul Music fans out there who haven't been exposed to this music under the right conditions. And whilst it may rankle a few on here, they don't necessarily want RARE, they just want GREAT.

And where did that FANTASTIC 1500 capacity audience from the first Rocket nighter go I ask myself?

This gig was the only occasion when I got paid to not DJ LOL - a first for me. Apparently I didn't have everything on an original pressing and this gig was all about rare originals apparently, so I reluctantly went with the apparent concensus 'cos I just couldn't be arsed with the political arguing and manouvering. I then stood back and watched the whole thing fall on it's arse.

It still rankles. And it was a massive shame.

The 1500 punters wanted HIGH-OCTANE TOTAL ENTERTAINMENT and CLASSIC NORTHERN SOUL and they just didn't get it.

I saw the same audience a few months later at a Gaz's Rockin' Blues gig - the atmosphere was magical, the buzz was in the air, the joint rocked and everyone left happy.

A world of difference.

I agree with the Football analogy earlier on this thread. This music was made to be HEARD by new ears and they should be hearing it under the best possible circumstances.

Promoters should take note. Do you have a diverse crowd which spans the age group? Or a solid bunch of aging but quite vocal regulars?

More soulful fun-loving youngsters really wouldn't be a bad thing would it?

It'd be a nice burst of youthful energy onto the scene.

Which is pretty much how it started in the first place isn't it?

Ian D

[Guest Una Scot-Oz]

F**kin eck, call that progress?? I think you need a different analogy! You only have to look at the sterility of the Premiershite to see what you are advoctaing........All gloss, money and very little passion. Is that what you are calling for? And some of us might just like our crappy little clubs with our low attendances...........

This guy doesn't have any passion! But he is a bigtime DJ and promoter apparently! Just haven't been at any of his events!

[Guest]

After reading this thread I have had a revelation

Realizing that I am no longer a hardcore all-nighter boy anymore (due to my young family and the price of petrol)

And being an obvious born again want to be Dj (very un-cool), I have decided to finish our local Soul n Ska nights and retire to the "COLLECTORS" Scene.

The "Collectors" scene is less high maintenance than putting events on for people, but more rewarding as the 45 boxes keep filling up (due to the love of music) and you don't have to justify your purchases to anyone other than yourself!

There are no politics on the collectors scene, but there is no public sharing of new vinyl either as there are no local Soul nights anymore.

You can only share your music with other collectors or mates who are collectors (and their families)

The really great thing on the collector's scene is there are no bootlegs or cds (as they are not collectable)

Collectors can still have fun, because in between many hours on the computer and phoning other collectors and dealers, they usually go on holiday for at least 2 weeks (I like Cala Vadella)

Collectors have turned up un-noticed at BIG soul events, but this has always been a un- substantiated rumour and one I would not like to comment on!

I have heard stories that these "Collectors" are the odd ones that walk casually past the decks at big events giving the platter a quick but obvious stare to check the validity of the rotating item! And quite right too!

"Collectors" - Are the ones who will always love the original format with a PASSION!

And the COLLECTORS SCENE...IMHO is most important part of preserving beautiful SOUL music!

Still waiting for the next "Wigan Casino"?

Not me Bruv! I'm going to go to "Bora Bora" the week after next!

I LOVE vintage Soul Music, but not necessarily everything about this traditional NS Scene at the moment!

Cause its very Political, and I just want to have fun!

[Barry]

There is no other scene comparable to the NS scene in the history of peoples boots on dancefloors - end of.

But, and it may be a one off observation, the NS scene has followed the only path it could, given it's own trail-blazing singularity.

Young boys in the 70's got the bug from the earlier pioneers (luckily for us they were worth their salt), set up shop and kicked ass for years - then they grew up.

It became a career, yes of course they loved it, but ultimatley if you are able to make a lot of money from your passion - do it (see The Premier League).

Kids on the dancefloor danced, spent their bus fare home on pressings (walked home), grew to know better, believed, lived their life around that scene (see any scene, but the NS scene always had that tad more intensity).

They grew up, as did their views, musical moralities and tastes - they felt more relevant, more involved, more the epitome of the creed they had been taught as they climbed the scale.

Next minute, they are 20/30 years into a scene - a scene where 20 year old men had taught them their trade, maybe 25/30 years back - men who were true pioneers - and the followers have thought "I can do that!"

Those same people who where always heading to that point; they were always going to deserve that moment and credit where credit is due - that is the life cycle of a scene - any scene.

Everyone wants/deserves their Andy Warhol moment, after all you've given your life over to your fifteen minutes, haven't you?

But you must remember that without the internet and it's latent beauty, no file sharing, no label scans, no e-mail - NO NOWT - those lads back in the 60's/70's & 80's were the f*cking real deal.

No getting away from it.

[Harry Crosby]

As you may have noticed since starting this thread ive only posted twice and just sat back and read some really intresting replies, and reading into this i think persnally theres too many local events, but hey there must be a market for them otherwise they wouldn`t be held, i re-located to the north east from my roots in york some four years ago and the amount of local events in our area is unbelievable, within say a 30mile radius theres 15+ with the weekly calendar usually full, unfortunatly insome cases this has caused the scene to implode on itself, due to people not wanting to travel and awaiting there own local d in there town, theres some great venues up here and some very forward thinking promoters, but the vast amount of venues seems to have split the scene with what seems to be not suppoting each other, there is of course the usual polotics & ego trips going on, but i seem to see more northeasterners in one place when i travel away nowadays

[Barry]

As you may have noticed since starting this thread ive only posted twice and just sat back and read some really intresting replies, and reading into this i think persnally theres too many local events, but hey there must be a market for them otherwise they wouldn`t be held, i re-located to the north east from my roots in york some four years ago and the amount of local events in our area is unbelievable, within say a 30mile radius theres 15+ with the weekly calendar usually full, unfortunatly insome cases this has caused the scene to implode on itself, due to people not wanting to travel and awaiting there own local d in there town, theres some great venues up here and some very forward thinking promoters, but the vast amount of venues seems to have split the scene with what seems to be not suppoting each other, there is of course the usual polotics & ego trips going on, but i seem to see more northeasterners in one place when i travel away nowadays

Obviously there is a market for them Harry, as is todays society and the average age of a died in the wool Soulie, they can't give it the time they once did, hence my above post.

It/it's long standing devotee's/it's lifeblood can only give of what they can.

Fair enough there are certain events that give enough to warrant the 'it's healthier than it's ever been' comments but the reality is, the Northern scene has (had to) give itself over to it's roots.

I know there are bigger events, held over a monthly span, that enable a more vigorous attendance than the norm - which is where the beautiful irony lies; although the NS scene as a whole appears to be diluting itself with the 'local venue' angle, it is the singular proof that it was always a true scene.

It's commiting a beautiful suicide.

Should I go to bed mate?

[Harry Crosby]

Obviously there is a market for them Harry, as is todays society and the average age of a died in the wool Soulie, they can't give it the time they once did, hence my above post.

It/it's long standing devotee's/it's lifeblood can only give of what they can.

Fair enough there are certain events that give enough to warrant the 'it's healthier than it's ever been' comments but the reality is, the Northern scene has (had to) give itself over to it's roots.

I know there are bigger events, held over a monthly span, that enable a more vigorous attendance than the norm - which is where the beautiful irony lies; although the NS scene as a whole appears to be diluting itself with the 'local venue' angle, it is the singular proof that it was always a true scene.

It's commiting a beautiful suicide.

Should I go to bed mate?

IVE JUST GOT UP!!! DODGY GUTS FARTING LIKE A TROOPER GOOD POSTS BARRY

[Barry]

IVE JUST GOT UP!!! DODGY GUTS FARTING LIKE A TROOPER GOOD POSTS BARRY

I envy you Harry mate, I'm waiting up 'til the missus has to go to work.

Sad innit?

[Maark]

sounds like northants and hertfordshire......you mean this happens elsewhere too?

And how many soul do's have you been to in Northants in able to be able to comment? Havn't seen any of your rantings in lookbacks about a Northants soul do YOU'VE ACTUALLY BEEN TO!

In fact, you didn't even go and support your best mate Cliffe Steele at his RARE soul nights at Silks, even though you are fighting a one man soul jihad against Paddy Grady in particular and Northants in general. No, instead of going to a Rare soul night put on by your best mate, you chose to go to Luton.

Edited May 30, 2008 by Maark

[paultp]

I take on board what you're saying Chalky but isn't one of the central issues to this whole discussion - if not the central issue - all about taking the scene on to a whole new level and bringing on board a whole new wave of (predominantly younger) people ?

As for those currently on the scene, well, those with an open mind and who can see beyond the horizon will come along for another bloody great ride , while the rest ... well they are free to choose to gracefully slip away if they like . And that's OK too. It's their choice.

If it's done in the right way and with the right people in charge who have the vision and the talent and the ability and the will to do it (and hopefully the monetary resources) , the potential would be absolutely frightening. We're talking about people who see the big picture. The really big picture.

Basic human nature tells us that if you put something new and big and exciting out there then the masses will naturally gravitate towards it. And when the product is so good - SOUL MUSIC !!! - then you're on the way, surely .

Once again, I hear stories from older friends on the original scene about what happened after the Torch shut down. Apparently the scene floundered for almost a year with no great direction or hope and then suddenly this f-cking great monster called Wigan Casino came along and ... whoosh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wigan just naturally dragged everyone and everything else along with it, right? Like a massive tsunami. And it introduced a whole lot of people who had never experienced the soul scene before.

There is unquestionably a huge number of disparate and varied groups of people out there in the UK and Europe and indeed all over the world ( beyond the narrow framework of people you're referring to) with either a serious or general or passing interest in Soul music who are just ripe for another monster like Wigan Casino to come along again and just drag them all together.

I think the only thing holding all this back is that there are a number of people on the scene who find the thought of this, well ... "frightening" ... it's a fear of losing what's been dear to their hearts for so long. And I can understand that. Perfectly normal.

But if you want to take this scene onwards and upwards then you've simply got to be prepared to do what's necessary to take it there ... even if that means leaving behind some of the people who made it so great. Sad but that's life.

The analogy with English football and its re-invention in the form of the Premier League is a perfect example of all this. Remember, English Football was in serious decline until someone had the vision and will to change everything ... and look at how that has progressed !!!

The potential for the Soul scene and soul culture , in its own way, is equally phenomenal , if the right people really want to take it there.

Taking the Northern Soul scene to a whole new level ??

With the right people in charge ??

What are you talking about?

As far as I can see, at the moment in the UK there is something for everyone: good niters - if that's your thing; good soul nights if you look about; good oldies nights - if that's what you want; chin stroking nights; 6T's, modern, R&B, crossover; across the sideboard; etc etc There's crap too but there always is.

I don't think everyone wants to be rounded up and pointed in the same direction then joined by the masses trailing along at the back. I certainly don't. To me it seems that the nature of most people involved is one that says "if everyone is going that way then I'm going this way" and they are usually met by people with the same attitude.

Personally, I just want to collect records I like, get the opportunity to play them out now and again, buy and sell them, go out and hear other peoples' tastes and agree/disagree, discuss records, gain some knowledge, and have a dance now and again. At the moment it is just local soul nights for me but that's because it suits my personal circumstances.

If I am not conforming to your view of which direction the Northern Soul scene should take I really don't give a toss.

Cheers

Paul

[Steve L]

Taking the Northern Soul scene to a whole new level ??

With the right people in charge ??

What are you talking about?

As far as I can see, at the moment in the UK there is something for everyone: good niters - if that's your thing; good soul nights if you look about; good oldies nights - if that's what you want; chin stroking nights; 6T's, modern, R&B, crossover; across the sideboard; etc etc There's crap too but there always is.

I don't think everyone wants to be rounded up and pointed in the same direction then joined by the masses trailing along at the back. I certainly don't. To me it seems that the nature of most people involved is one that says "if everyone is going that way then I'm going this way" and they are usually met by people with the same attitude.

Personally, I just want to collect records I like, get the opportunity to play them out now and again, buy and sell them, go out and hear other peoples' tastes and agree/disagree, discuss records, gain some knowledge, and have a dance now and again. At the moment it is just local soul nights for me but that's because it suits my personal circumstances.

If I am not conforming to your view of which direction the Northern Soul scene should take I really don't give a toss.

Cheers

Paul

well said that man

[Guest Simon]

Personally i think NS is buzzing down in Brighton, this might sound slightly egocentric but the best dos i've been to recently have been down here.

We've got a great young crowd coming through especially lots of girls (75% at DDRR where we play plenty of NS, rare & well known), there seems to be a real party atmosphere down here & the music is very vibrant & interesting, you'll hear records down here you'll hear nowhere else & we always aim directly at the dancefloor with high octane stuff!

I've been to several places over the years & mid 9ts especially there was some very exciting stuff going down all over the place but i really can't remember the last time i had a great NS experience outside of my hometown, i've had some ok nights but nothing up to the level of say yer 'Capitol Soul Clubs' 'TOS', 'Scenesville', 'Early Cleethorpes Weekenders' etc.

Whereever i go it always seems to be the same old tunes, i very rarely see anyone behind the decks looking cool or excited, just seems to be people going through the motions, maybe it's me as i read some of the write ups to these dos & people always seem to have a more positive opinion than me, almost as though they've been to a different gig.

I haven't been to either yet but Burnley & JT's do seem to have the right idea, high octane NS excitement & not too scared to play some interesting stuff, i think as Ian D said also you really must try & get the youth through the door, it's got to be buzzing & vibrant, young people don't want to spend the evening with a bunch of chin strokers dancing to mid tempo crossover, they wanna hear sexy uptempo adrenalin fueled music & get laid!

Anyway i'm off too the continent to get my NS excitement, Perpignon & Switzerland in the forthcoming months, will report back with hopefully good reviews, one thing's for sure the food willl definitely be better than the Cleethorpes caff!

Simon

[Roger Williams]

Can I just ask a genuine question here, and it relates to Sunnysoul's long post. Why exactly is it that venues allocate one hour per DJ? Is it because it's 'the norm'? Or do promoters prefer this format for some reason? If so, what's the reason? I've asked this question in the past and one reply I've had is that it's in case a DJ is struggles, then you don't want them to go any longer than an hour. But if that's the case, why book a DJ in the first place that you think may struggle? If any DJ worth their fee starts to struggle, then he or she will surely have the ability and the range of tunes to turn it around?

Another argument for more DJ's I've heard is that the more people you put on, the more people they'll bring, but does any one DJ really attract a crowd these days?

I can understand cramming a line up with DJ's if it's a gang of mates and everyone wants a go behind the decks, but surely at a serious event it should be a case of less is more because (1) the promoter will save on DJ fees; (2) a longer set gives the better DJs a chance to build a set; and (3) the DJ will get more enjoyment from it, because as a 'modern soul' DJ myself, I know the sometimes frustrating situation of just getting into an hour's slot and having a full floor and then having to finish and hand over to someone else.

Anyone got an answer to this?

Roger

PS: Just a few thoughts like, nothing too heavy, at the end of the day, everyone should just go out and enjoy themselves regardless and really when it comes down to it, I think the only people who care about who DJ's are the DJ's themselves, because for the majority I'm sure it doesn't really matter who plays the music as long as it's what they want to hear.

[Dave Moore]

Personally, I just want to collect records I like, get the opportunity to play them out now and again, buy and sell them, go out and hear other peoples' tastes and agree/disagree, discuss records, gain some knowledge, and have a dance now and again.

If I am not conforming to your view of which direction the Northern Soul scene should take I really don't give a toss.

Cheers

Paul

I reckon 99% of soulies have the same idea Paul. It's the 1% of soul 'analysists' that are struggling with the idea that we don't need their guidance or to be saved from ourselves. Let's get on with it FFS whilst we still can.

[Guest Simon]

I reckon 99% of soulies have the same idea Paul. It's the 1% of soul 'analysists' that are struggling with the idea that we don't need their guidance or to be saved from ourselves. Let's get on with it FFS whilst we still can.

Maybe i'm in the 1% Dave but it's only because i'm frustrated & care, i just truly believe things could be so much better.

We couldn't be blessed with better music, NS is as good as it gets but even taking that into account a lot of promoters & djs somehow manage to bodge it.

Simon

[Guest helsbob]

After reading this thread I have had a revelation

Realizing that I am no longer a hardcore all-nighter boy anymore (due to my young family and the price of petrol)

And being an obvious born again want to be Dj (very un-cool), I have decided to finish our local Soul n Ska nights and retire to the "COLLECTORS" Scene.

The "Collectors" scene is less high maintenance than putting events on for people, but more rewarding as the 45 boxes keep filling up (due to the love of music) and you don't have to justify your purchases to anyone other than yourself!

There are no politics on the collectors scene, but there is no public sharing of new vinyl either as there are no local Soul nights anymore.

You can only share your music with other collectors or mates who are collectors (and their families)

The really great thing on the collector's scene is there are no bootlegs or cds (as they are not collectable)

Collectors can still have fun, because in between many hours on the computer and phoning other collectors and dealers, they usually go on holiday for at least 2 weeks (I like Cala Vadella)

Collectors have turned up un-noticed at BIG soul events, but this has always been a un- substantiated rumour and one I would not like to comment on!

I have heard stories that these "Collectors" are the odd ones that walk casually past the decks at big events giving the platter a quick but obvious stare to check the validity of the rotating item! And quite right too!

"Collectors" - Are the ones who will always love the original format with a PASSION!

And the COLLECTORS SCENE...IMHO is most important part of preserving beautiful SOUL music!

Still waiting for the next "Wigan Casino"?

Not me Bruv! I'm going to go to "Bora Bora" the week after next!

I LOVE vintage Soul Music, but not necessarily everything about this traditional NS Scene at the moment!

Cause its very Political, and I just want to have fun!

Are you serious about not putting anymore soul and ska do's on? That's a real shame your do was good; it was fun and played good quality music. Ska and soul should be played together in my opinion and the scooterists love it. I wish everyone would lighten up and as others have stated, go to do's where you like the music. I actually like this scene 'cause it's underground don't ruin it by making it popular, on mass and diluted.Only an opinion

It's all retrospective to me, would I have gone to Wigan in the day not sure? But I'm sick of everything being compared to that time or the 'good old days'. Keep looking forward Disclaimer: No offence meant to anyone

[paultp]

Maybe i'm in the 1% Dave but it's only because i'm frustrated & care, i just truly believe things could be so much better.

We couldn't be blessed with better music, NS is as good as it gets but even taking that into account a lot of promoters & djs somehow manage to bodge it.

Simon

Simon, you just can't say that right after you've said this:

"Personally i think NS is buzzing down in Brighton, this might sound slightly egocentric but the best dos i've been to recently have been down here.

We've got a great young crowd coming through especially lots of girls (75% at DDRR where we play plenty of NS, rare & well known), there seems to be a real party atmosphere down here & the music is very vibrant & interesting, you'll hear records down here you'll hear nowhere else & we always aim directly at the dancefloor with high octane stuff!"

You're in the 99%; you're putting on a good night doing what you want to do rather than trying to get everyone to turn round and follow you or preaching to people that their way is not the right way.

And good on you

P.S. Can I franchise DDRR as it always seemed like a really good idea.

Cheers

Paul

[Guest Simon]

Simon, you just can't say that right after you've said this:

"Personally i think NS is buzzing down in Brighton, this might sound slightly egocentric but the best dos i've been to recently have been down here.

We've got a great young crowd coming through especially lots of girls (75% at DDRR where we play plenty of NS, rare & well known), there seems to be a real party atmosphere down here & the music is very vibrant & interesting, you'll hear records down here you'll hear nowhere else & we always aim directly at the dancefloor with high octane stuff!"

You're in the 99%; you're putting on a good night doing what you want to do rather than trying to get everyone to turn round and follow you or preaching to people that their way is not the right way.

And good on you

P.S. Can I franchise DDRR as it always seemed like a really good idea.

Cheers

Paul

Paul,

Call me egocentric if you like but i'm aiming for the 1%, the other 99% is sh*te imho, dull, unimaginative, djs well past their sell by date, records well over played, lack of imagination, lack of energy etc, to quote the Pistols "Ever get the feeling you've been cheated"!

And no you can't franchise DDRR!

Come down one night mate, you'll love it, regular 250 - 400 attendance, high octane fuelled music & loads of beautifullly turned out young women, dancing to NS, Motown, French Ye Ye etc!!

Simon

[paultp]

Paul,

Call me egocentric if you like but i'm aiming for the 1%, the other 99% is sh*te imho, dull, unimaginative, djs well past their sell by date, records well over played, lack of imagination, lack of energy etc, to quote the Pistols "Ever get the feeling you've been cheated"!

And no you can't franchise DDRR!

Come down one night mate, you'll love it, regular 250 - 400 attendance, high octane fuelled music & loads of beautifullly turned out young women, dancing to NS, Motown, French Ye Ye etc!!

Simon

I'm afraid you're outside my current 5 mile radius

Gizza set and I'll make the trip, I've got a pair of bicycle shorts somewhere and I understand they are de riguer in Brighton

In fact now I remember, me & and Jo were supposed to be doing a set at DDRR in London ages ago but we got bumped for Mark Lamarr, so technically you owe me/us one (I think). Anyway I can do you a podcast/cd/summat of me girly stuff. I do like the sound of all those young women

Cheers

Paul

[Ian Dewhirst]

Can I just ask a genuine question here, and it relates to Sunnysoul's long post. Why exactly is it that venues allocate one hour per DJ? Is it because it's 'the norm'? Or do promoters prefer this format for some reason? If so, what's the reason? I've asked this question in the past and one reply I've had is that it's in case a DJ is struggles, then you don't want them to go any longer than an hour. But if that's the case, why book a DJ in the first place that you think may struggle? If any DJ worth their fee starts to struggle, then he or she will surely have the ability and the range of tunes to turn it around?

Another argument for more DJ's I've heard is that the more people you put on, the more people they'll bring, but does any one DJ really attract a crowd these days?

I can understand cramming a line up with DJ's if it's a gang of mates and everyone wants a go behind the decks, but surely at a serious event it should be a case of less is more because (1) the promoter will save on DJ fees; (2) a longer set gives the better DJs a chance to build a set; and (3) the DJ will get more enjoyment from it, because as a 'modern soul' DJ myself, I know the sometimes frustrating situation of just getting into an hour's slot and having a full floor and then having to finish and hand over to someone else.

Anyone got an answer to this?

Roger

PS: Just a few thoughts like, nothing too heavy, at the end of the day, everyone should just go out and enjoy themselves regardless and really when it comes down to it, I think the only people who care about who DJ's are the DJ's themselves, because for the majority I'm sure it doesn't really matter who plays the music as long as it's what they want to hear.

Good point Rog. Gimme 2+ hours behind the decks anytime. That way you can actually work the music better and construct a more interesting set rather than cramming everything into an hour.

However, with Northern, the whole 1 hour spot thing still meant you could squeeze a good 25 records in as they're all two and a half minutes long!

Also I think there could be more imaginative ways of programming sets. For instance, I think it would be fascinating to do a themed Northern set where you could go from New York to Philly to Memphis to the South to Chicago to Detroit and close up with L.A. - it'd probably take 3 hours but it would be a fascinating educational journey for many people and help them to appreciate the sheer bredth of the music at the same time.

Lively debate this........

Ian D

[Guest Simon]

I'm afraid you're outside my current 5 mile radius

Gizza set and I'll make the trip, I've got a pair of bicycle shorts somewhere and I understand they are de riguer in Brighton

Oh, you're one of those Soulies are you, only come out when you're djing!

In fact now I remember, me & and Jo were supposed to be doing a set at DDRR in London ages ago but we got bumped for Mark Lamarr, so technically you owe me/us one (I think). Anyway I can do you a podcast/cd/summat of me girly stuff. I do like the sound of all those young women

That was before my time mate, would love to hear your girly stuff though, if you can send me any of the above formats i can pass it onto Chris, the main man.

Cheers

Paul

Simon

[Guest]

Check out yer signature block Madam. People in glass houses.......

I know what my signature says thanks, as I WROTE IT!!

SO ? ... and your point is? ....

[KevH]

Taking the Northern Soul scene to a whole new level ??

With the right people in charge ??

What are you talking about?

As far as I can see, at the moment in the UK there is something for everyone: good niters - if that's your thing; good soul nights if you look about; good oldies nights - if that's what you want; chin stroking nights; 6T's, modern, R&B, crossover; across the sideboard; etc etc There's crap too but there always is.

I don't think everyone wants to be rounded up and pointed in the same direction then joined by the masses trailing along at the back. I certainly don't. To me it seems that the nature of most people involved is one that says "if everyone is going that way then I'm going this way" and they are usually met by people with the same attitude.

Personally, I just want to collect records I like, get the opportunity to play them out now and again, buy and sell them, go out and hear other peoples' tastes and agree/disagree, discuss records, gain some knowledge, and have a dance now and again. At the moment it is just local

"soul nights for me but that's because it suits my personal circumstances".

If I am not conforming to your view of which direction the Northern Soul scene should take I really don't give a toss.

Cheers

Paul

Have a look at post *61,said just about the same thing .

Liketo take up the point made around "soul nights and suiting personal circumstances".

Not everyone can get to niters anymore.

Family commitments,health issues,work are far more important to people than when we were 16-18,and chucking in a MONDAY morning at work was the norm cos we'd "overdone" it and didn't "land" til Sunday afternoon.

Those who don't have these commitments and can do as you please,think yourself lucky.

Soul nites are some peeps only chance to get out,without hassle.IMHO.

[Guest]

Can I just ask a genuine question here, and it relates to Sunnysoul's long post. Why exactly is it that venues allocate one hour per DJ? Is it because it's 'the norm'? Or do promoters prefer this format for some reason? If so, what's the reason? I've asked this question in the past and one reply I've had is that it's in case a DJ is struggles, then you don't want them to go any longer than an hour. But if that's the case, why book a DJ in the first place that you think may struggle? If any DJ worth their fee starts to struggle, then he or she will surely have the ability and the range of tunes to turn it around?

Another argument for more DJ's I've heard is that the more people you put on, the more people they'll bring, but does any one DJ really attract a crowd these days?

I can understand cramming a line up with DJ's if it's a gang of mates and everyone wants a go behind the decks, but surely at a serious event it should be a case of less is more because (1) the promoter will save on DJ fees; (2) a longer set gives the better DJs a chance to build a set; and (3) the DJ will get more enjoyment from it, because as a 'modern soul' DJ myself, I know the sometimes frustrating situation of just getting into an hour's slot and having a full floor and then having to finish and hand over to someone else.

Anyone got an answer to this?

Roger

PS: Just a few thoughts like, nothing too heavy, at the end of the day, everyone should just go out and enjoy themselves regardless and really when it comes down to it, I think the only people who care about who DJ's are the DJ's themselves, because for the majority I'm sure it doesn't really matter who plays the music as long as it's what they want to hear.

Yep!..I've got a suggestion... Regarding your first paragraph: I think it provides a good balance to have DJ's on who are going to provide a variety of sounds, some have great rare 6T's, some great 7T's etc. One DJ can't own everything. Some punters might get bored with one particular style BUT if you give everyone much shorter sets and book many more DJ's it gets rediculously expensive - especially with you modern DJ's who seem to charge the earth (despite your music being substantially cheaper in many instances). An hour of nu release, an hour of old skool, an hour of jazzy / funky stuff and an hour of soulful house would be a great mix for me.. you know what I mean..

I know I haven't put this across very well, apologies, I'm rushing a bit. I kind of agree with your second paragraph, IF the DJ is prepared to mix it up a bit and many say they will and then dont. I still think some DJ's can pull a crowd, not many but some. I think you find it frustrating because you just love DJ'ing!.. I bet you'd do a 3 hour spot if it was the right venue and still wouldnt complain!.

Jayne.x.

[Guest Soultown andy]

Niter scene is very healthy in the northwest,we use thirty djs a nite and read our playlists no tired same old same old .Well over 500 every nite in fact over 600 at the last one and full dance floors with people refuseing to leave at 7 30 am after a full 12 hour niter ,the niter scene is far bigger and busier than some would have you belive,its not the scene thats on its arse look at the weekenders prestatyn cleethorpes blackpool tower all rammed to the rafters.Give people what they want not what you and your mates want and they will come regardless of who the promoter is or the distance they have to travel,and never under estimate the soul crowds knowledge or enthusiasm for good soul tunes play safe at your peril imho of course.

[Dave Moore]

I know what my signature says thanks, as I WROTE IT!!

SO ? ... and your point is? ....

Err... I don't really have one apart from the fact that I thought you accused me of being foulmouthed whilst using the same word as I used.

Or have I missed something?

[Guest SteveJohnston]

Have a look at post *61,said just about the same thing .

Liketo take up the point made around "soul nights and suiting personal circumstances".

Not everyone can get to niters anymore.

Family commitments,health issues,work are far more important to people than when we were 16-18,and chucking in a MONDAY morning at work was the norm cos we'd "overdone" it and didn't "land" til Sunday afternoon.

Those who don't have these commitments and can do as you please,think yourself lucky.

Soul nites are some peeps only chance to get out,without hassle.IMHO.

I'm not sure that I would want to attend a nighter anymore not in the uk that is.

I'm with you on this one Kev

I like going to the soul nights that are on across the country when I get the chance I do look at the DJ line up because I know the kind of sounds I want to listen to and know the DJ's that play them and on which format! I would have imagined that most on SS know what any named DJ plays or what to expect from a line up of named DJ's, So why not go to the venues that keep you happy and leave the rest to do what they want?,

Having lived though the shit that was filling Black Echoes and B/Souls in the late seventies Russ and Soul Sam taking turns with the handbag! Sam being blamed for every thing from funky soul to the famine in Biafra at the time, I would have thought most on S/S would of lightened up a bit by now but after reading and posting this last week I'm sorry to say the politics is as strong as ever but this time I'm not getting dragged into this crap.

My answer to the first question on this topic

No the scene is not on its arse more like the second answer to this topic if you ask me!

So I will just be reading the topics and post attending venues I like to go to from now on listening to DJ's that play Northern at a Northern night, Funk at a Funk night and allsorts at ATB nights!

Thank you and good night!

Steve J

[Guest]

Err... I don't really have one apart from the fact that I thought you accused me of being foulmouthed whilst using the same word as I used.

Or have I missed something?

So? Did I? So? And? Go and watch Eastenders!!!!

[Dave Moore]

So? Did I? So? And? Go and watch Eastenders!!!!

You've lost me completely. I have replied to your PM, but I have to say I haven't a clue what on Earth you're on about.

Waaaaayyyyy off topic now.

[Guest gordon russell]

Niter scene is very healthy in the northwest,we use thirty djs a nite and read our playlists no tired same old same old .Well over 500 every nite in fact over 600 at the last one and full dance floors with people refuseing to leave at 7 30 am after a full 12 hour niter ,the niter scene is far bigger and busier than some would have you belive,its not the scene thats on its arse look at the weekenders prestatyn cleethorpes blackpool tower all rammed to the rafters.Give people what they want not what you and your mates want and they will come regardless of who the promoter is or the distance they have to travel,and never under estimate the soul crowds knowledge or enthusiasm for good soul tunes play safe at your peril imho of course.

have to agree, the allnighter scene to me is the soul scene full stop. if your gonna travel any distance to a venue then it's because it's good,has the right people and the music is top.Why are people travelling,because their local scene is generally poor with the promoters and dj's of said events only out for themselves and their ego's,not in every case but most ,sad to say.Most local venue promoters only want to love the music at their own venues,comes to going ,even a few miles to some other folks do.....they can't be arsed,ktf, only at my do they say......As i've said before in most cases the north has it. lastly people can't think someone wants to travel 200 miles just for fun.....As they say lets go baby where the action IS......AND LONG MAY IT F**KING CONTINUE.

[Stevie]

have to agree, the allnighter scene to me is the soul scene full stop. if your gonna travel any distance to a venue then it's because it's good,has the right people and the music is top.Why are people travelling,because their local scene is generally poor with the promoters and dj's of said events only out for themselves and their ego's,not in every case but most ,sad to say.Most local venue promoters only want to love the music at their own venues,comes to going ,even a few miles to some other folks do.....they can't be arsed,ktf, only at my do they say......As i've said before in most cases the north has it. lastly people can't think someone wants to travel 200 miles just for fun.....As they say lets go baby where the action IS......AND LONG MAY IT F**KING CONTINUE.

Oh Dear - The top 500 has taken on a new meaning now. It's now the top 500 people.

Guess the rest of us had better get our coats

[Little-stevie]

A few quotes from folk on here are really looking up the back passage and i smell bullshit...

Who is anyone to say what the scene should be.. We have so many different takes on it all..

Just do what you wanna do and don't listen to the preachers of faith toooooooooo much... Like the church we have many different takes on what the gospel is all about.. Just gather around your flock and have ball...

go out to niters every week and don't sleep till Tuesday

Go local and in bed by 2am.. Fresh as daisy for walks in the park with the kids..

dance to fast uptempo northern

dance to mid tempo beat ballads that pull at the heart strings

chin stroke in the record room

talk shite outside all night with the fag brigade

sit on your own in a little dream world and just listen to the music

And always do what you wanna do and not what others think you should do..

[Ian Dewhirst]

A few quotes from folk on here are really looking up the back passage and i smell bullshit...

Who is anyone to say what the scene should be.. We have so many different takes on it all..

Just do what you wanna do and don't listen to the preachers of faith toooooooooo much... Like the church we have many different takes on what the gospel is all about.. Just gather around your flock and have ball...

go out to niters every week and don't sleep till Tuesday

Go local and in bed by 2am.. Fresh as daisy for walks in the park with the kids..

dance to fast uptempo northern

dance to mid tempo beat ballads that pull at the heart strings

chin stroke in the record room

talk shite outside all night with the fag brigade

sit on your own in a little dream world and just listen to the music

And always do what you wanna do and not what others think you should do..

Yep. Agree.

Too each their own......

Ian D