The Soul Scene

[Harry Crosby]

Was involved in the kings go forth thread in a look at your box section, and had a few replies concerning this comment, just wondered what your views were on this, as i find the scene as healthy as ever? and wich part of the history of the soul scene is this compared to? just a question for your opinions

[Dave Moore]

YES, it most certainly is...undoubtably.

OOPS! sorry I thought it said UP it's own arse!

[Chalky]

Could be better if some of the poorer venues fell by the way side. Numbers healthy but these often spread over far too many venues.

The music could be better too with far too many venues stuck in backwards thinking oldies rut. There are venues who like to progress but some often at the expense of dancers, instread preferring lounge music, plodderrs and crossover no one can dance too.

Venues should embrace all eras IMHO, but they should favour the dancers and not the collectors.

[Harry Crosby]

YES, it most certainly is...undoubtably.

OOPS! sorry I thought it said UP it's own arse!

nice one dave

[Simsy]

i find the scene as healthy as ever

Agree with the above.

[Wiganer1]

Agree with the above.

===

the niter scene is fantastic imo...not been to duff one for years!

[Guest]

On it's Arse? Dunno.

As ever it contain's some right *rseholes

As it was then it is now.

Derek

[Harry Crosby]

gotta agree with all the above, although the younger generation numbers are down theres a lot of people returning to the scene and has been for quite some time now, and these people are not only attending there local events but also the nighter venues and weekenders, i think what weve got to remember is there is a lot more events on nowadays, and a lot more nighters than there was, when people refer to the glory days w/c, mecca, etc there were very few nighters on the go so everyone was concentrated in one place, to me its as ive said its as healthy now if not healthier than ever, one comment that was made was musically on its arse, don`t know why that is either?

[Guest]

As someone getting back on the scene after nearly twenty years not attending I find it refreshing. I still prefer the oldies scene cos that was what I was brought up on, but I'm hearing more brilliant unknown(to me anyway) sixties tracks daily and sites like this give me the opportunity to hear things I wouldn't ever hope of getting. I'm going to my first weekender at Cleethorpes since the first Togetherness one in Fleetwood and hope it lives up to all the great things I've heard. Do ya think anyone will play the Right Track !

Regards

Ian

[Winnie :-)]

gotta agree with all the above, although the younger generation numbers are down theres a lot of people returning to the scene and has been for quite some time now, and these people are not only attending there local events but also the nighter venues and weekenders, i think what weve got to remember is there is a lot more events on nowadays, and a lot more nighters than there was, when people refer to the glory days w/c, mecca, etc there were very few nighters on the go so everyone was concentrated in one place, to me its as ive said its as healthy now if not healthier than ever, one comment that was made was musically on its arse, don`t know why that is either?

===============

There are a lot of returnees, myself included 10 or 11 years ago now, but there are also a lot of new faces, not youngsters but people who have discovered that there is a social club for the 40 plus. That IMO is one of the reasons for so many events springing up over the last 5 years. A lot of these 'new faces' don't really want to do a nighter, or travel, so local events are increasingly popular. This also has the effect of restricting playlists to better known northern and motown often particularly relevant to an area. I was out Friday and won't mention the area, but almost all of it's venues have the same playlists/punters, fine if you haven't been out for a month or so, but if you're out every week a bit dull. Have to agree with Chalky about certain events playing 'different/underplayed' a lot of the time it's a bit mid-tempo and not focussed on the dancers, which I've always thought this scene was about. Ideally there would be that happy medium at all the events but as the two types of punters are poles apart it probably wouldn't survive.

Winnie :-)

[Chris L]

YES, it most certainly is...undoubtably.

OOPS! sorry I thought it said UP it's own arse!

Tut Tut Dave such language, I'm shocked, really....................

Too many venues chasing too few punters it will all end in tears I tell you......

we're all doomed, all doomed I tell you (in a Scottish accent).

Scene is healthy, wealthy but always not enough naked female dancers at venues,

bummer that

Chris L

[Kjw]

Could be better if some of the poorer venues fell by the way side. Numbers healthy but these often spread over far too many venues.

The music could be better too with far too many venues stuck in backwards thinking oldies rut. There are venues who like to progress but some often at the expense of dancers, instread preferring lounge music, plodderrs and crossover no one can dance too.

Venues should embrace all eras IMHO, but they should favour the dancers and not the collectors.

Totally agree with your point about numbers spread over too may venues. There are probably 12 - 15 venues to choose from in the East Midlands which means that on a Sat night there may be up to 3 venues competing against each other. Some promoters even try and run up to 3 venues a month with no difference in the music between them.

A couple of years ago promoters would ensure none of their venues clashed which meant a much more healthy attendance.

[Harry Crosby]

Totally agree with your point about numbers spread over too may venues. There are probably 12 - 15 venues to choose from in the East Midlands which means that on a Sat night there may be up to 3 venues competing against each other. Some promoters even try and run up to 3 venues a month with no difference in the music between them.

A couple of years ago promoters would ensure none of their venues clashed which meant a much more healthy attendance.

Too true, at one time events never clashed, but then again to keep these places open there must be a market?

[Madmandy]

A lot of these 'new faces' don't really want to do a nighter, or travel, so local events are increasingly popular.

although the younger generation numbers are down theres a lot of people returning to the scene and has been for quite some time now, and these people are not only attending there local events but also the nighter venues and weekenders, i think what weve got to remember is there is a lot more events on nowadays, and a lot more nighters than there was, when people refer to the glory days w/c, mecca, etc there were very few nighters on the go so everyone was concentrated in one place,

I have to agree with the 2 above statements

When I was young...er

If we wanted to dance to N/S it was off to the city to the alldayer/nighter monthly and it was thronging hundreds of customers from all over visiting one venue.

Now if I want to dance I can actually walk to the nearest venue then stagger back .

Hell I can even drive or taxi 2 miles to the next village where 2 venues run on different times of the month

All are well supported.

I have even organised a couple myself both attended by 300 the first time( full house all tickets sold) and 250 the second time (during holiday season)

Its a fact that as a country we are getting older which means more of the older generation looking for stuff to do with their spare time now kids have gone and they have more cash to spend on themselves.

Our local do's have new people coming to a soul nite for the first time ..then coming back every month for more..they too are hooked!

Soul scene on its arse?? not a bit,

I would say its thriving but the venues are smaller as it has spread further afield to outlying towns and villages giving others a chance to experience what we've known for a long time (that its brilliant)

My hat goes off to places like pilsley annesley kingsway hall ..all who have kept the flame alive for us to rise like a phoenix out of the ashes....

ooooo Im fillin up

KTF Mand

[Jumpinjoan]

one comment that was made was musically on its arse, don`t know why that is either?

I must say I think this is true to a an extent.

There are venues out there that do aim to provide the quality of music I like and there is good music being played elsewhere, but it's in dribs and drabs at the majority of venues.

Despite good music getting played, it still has a long way to go till it catches up with the quality of music that was being played in the late 80's and early 90s.

Although a lot of that is probably due to the fact that there just isn't the amount of quality unknown records that there was back then.

But that's just my opinion though, and no doubt everyone feels differently.

Saying that, I enjoy every night I go to, and I dance every bit as much now as I did back then, so it can't be that bad can it?

[Sunnysoul]

The single greatest problem with the contemporary northern soul scene surely is that there are far too many people who "wanna be" - or pretend to be - DJ's .

Loads of 'em right here on Soul Source.

And these people have their own very personal and very subjective perspective on what they think should be played at a northern soul night and what they think the rest of the scene should be listening to .

Many of them only started to become serious collectors/DJ on their return to the scene because they now have much greater disposable income than they had when they were 19 years old, and rare records are much more easily accessible (just a credit card away on ebay and the internet).

Sadly the total sum of their record collections is pathetically limited and often runs to no more than a couple of hundred records, which they regularly turn over (sell one rarity to buy another one to DJ with : " oh ... I used to have that once ").

Even worse, their knowledge of soul music and what we used to call "black music" in general is minimal by anyone's standards and usually limited to the Top 500 northern !

And then the same people also see themselves as promoters. So they put on a little local soul night in some old backwater pub with maybe 50 people in, have 6 or 7 of their mates DJing with their boots and they tell us "we had a great night" but moan as to why they didn't have a 1000 in , instead of a paltry 50 , or moan about why young people don't turn up !

My understanding is that in the 60's and 70's just about all the legendary northern DJ's such as Searling Levine Curtis Soul Sam etc all had not only fairly massive record collections at a young age but had also established a love and breadth of knowledge of not only soul music but all related types of black music. They were regular working DJ's who knew how to DJ and knew how to work a crowd. They were serious players and they were right on top of their game and all the punters and dancers just knew they were in safe hands with Searling and Curtis and the others at the controls.

And until Wigan came along , the great venues only had at most two or three DJ's who played for the whole night. Fantastic ! The old timers tell me for example that one of the great things about the Torch was that Minshull and Curtis had several hours each to themselves to take people on a fabulous musical trip all night. They had time to work their sets , as well as the knowledge and the records to produce the goods . None of this nonsense that started with Wigan whereby you have 12 different DJs playing for a mere hour each over the course of the night ! How can a great DJ show their worth in an hour ? Easy for the hopeless DJ with a limited collection and even more limited knowledge of music to cover up his inadequacies when he only has to play 20 records in an hour ! And then you get repeat records played !

Just imagine, if you were booking Butch and Soul Sam for a night, why wouldn't you ask to play them three or four hours each instead of banging them in with 10 other fourth and fifth divison DJs for an hour at a time ?

And at the Twisted Wheel, it's well known that the DJ wasn't even that important . If you were a collector in those days and you found a rare and great record you took it along to the Wheel and gave it to whoever was behind the decks so that they could play it to the faithful. Legendary collectors like Brian Phillips (and even Levine apparently at that early stage) had no aspirations about becoming star DJs and personal glory for getting credit for finding and playing a rare record. No one cared as long as the record was heard.

And in the 60's and 70s there were only maybe two or three serious major venues at any one time driving the scene forward, supported of course by several smaller venues which also had an important role to play. There was a sense of unity and community of purpose amongst the punters and dancers. Everyone basically turned up as one.

Actually, it wouldn't take that much for the scene to again reach the heady heights of the 60's and 70s. All you need is one really big flash commercial club venue in London (to attract the newer younger crowd!) and another similar venue somewhere up north (capacity 1,500-2,000 each) . Make it a regular weekly allnighter every Saturday so you don't even need to think about what you're going to be doing from week to week. But at the same time advertise the scene to the general English public - don't be afraid to market and promote the product !

No different for example to the Premier League when football in the UK re-invented itself. Brand spanking new venues , the best players, promote the product. Great ! Can't miss ! Just don't eventually sell out to foreign billionaires !

Have only the very best 4 or 5 scene DJs (plus maybe a Euro guest and a young up and comer DJ) playing at least a couple of hours each for the whole night . The whole spectrum of music will be played - Top 500, new 60's discoveries , modern , and even the Kings Go Forth (if you must!). If one of the DJs plays something you don't like, don't moan .... just sit down , keep quiet , be patient and then get back on the floor when something you like comes on.

Send a nice little letter to all the wannabee little local DJs dotted around the country and tell em to put their nice little DJ boxes away and just turn up to the big nights each week and just be punters again.

Quite simple really.

Anyone out there want to join me in a new business venture?

Edited May 29, 2008 by sunnysoul

[Mike]

The single greatest problem with the contemporary northern soul scene surely is that there are far too many people who "wanna be" - or pretend to be - DJ's .

Loads of 'em right here on Soul Source.

And these people have their own very personal and very subjective perspective on what they think should be played at a northern soul night and what they think the rest of the scene should be listening to .

Many of them only started to become serious collectors/DJ on their return to the scene because they now have much greater disposable income than they had when they were 19 years old, and rare records are much more easily accessible (just a credit card away on ebay and the internet).

Sadly the total sum of their record collections is pathetically limited and often runs to no more than a couple of hundred records, which they regularly turn over (sell one rarity to buy another one to DJ with : " oh ... I used to have that once ").

Even worse, their knowledge of soul music and what we used to call "black music" in general is minimal by anyone's standards and usually limited to the Top 500 northern !

And then the same people also see themselves as promoters. So they put on a little local soul night in some old backwater pub with maybe 50 people in, have 6 or 7 of their mates DJing with their boots and they tell us "we had a great night" but moan as to why they didn't have a 1000 in , instead of a paltry 50 , or moan about why young people don't turn up !

My understanding is that in the 60's and 70's just about all the legendary northern DJ's such as Searling Levine Curtis Soul Sam etc all had not only fairly massive record collections at a young age but had also established a love and breadth of knowledge of not only soul music but all related types of black music. They were regular working DJ's who knew how to DJ and knew how to work a crowd. They were serious players and they were right on top of their game and all the punters and dancers just knew they were in safe hands with Searling and Curtis and the others at the controls.

And until Wigan came along , the great venues only had at most two or three DJ's who played for the whole night. Fantastic ! The old timers tell me for example that one of the great things about the Torch was that Minshull and Curtis had several hours each to themselves to take people on a fabulous musical trip all night. They had time to work their sets , as well as the knowledge and the records to produce the goods . None of this nonsense that started with Wigan whereby you have 12 different DJs playing for a mere hour each over the course of the night ! How can a great DJ show their worth in an hour ? Easy for the hopeless DJ with a limited collection and even more limited knowledge of music to cover up his inadequacies when he only has to play 20 records in an hour ! And then you get repeat records played !

Just imagine, if you were booking Butch and Soul Sam for a night, why wouldn't you ask to play them three or four hours each instead of banging them in with 10 other fourth and fifth divison DJs for an hour at a time ?

And at the Twisted Wheel, it's well known that the DJ wasn't even that important . If you were a collector in those days and you found a rare and great record you took it along to the Wheel and gave it to whoever was behind the decks so that they could play it to the faithful. Legendary collectors like Brian Phillips (and even Levine apparently at that early stage) had no aspirations about becoming star DJs and personal glory for getting credit for finding and playing a rare record. No one cared as long as the record was heard.

And in the 60's and 70s there were only maybe two or three serious major venues at any one time driving the scene forward, supported of course by several smaller venues which also had an important role to play. There was a sense of unity and community of purpose amongst the punters and dancers. Everyone basically turned up as one.

Actually, it wouldn't take that much for the scene to again reach the heady heights of the 60's and 70s. All you need is one really big flash commercial club venue in London (to attract the newer younger crowd!) and another similar venue somewhere up north (capacity 1,500-2,000 each) . Make it a regular weekly allnighter every Saturday so you don't even need to think about what you're going to be doing from week to week. But at the same time advertise the scene to the general English public - don't be afraid to market and promote the product !

No different for example to the Premier League when football in the UK re-invented itself. Brand spanking new venues , the best players, promote the product. Great ! Can't miss ! Just don't eventually sell out to foreign billionaires !

Have only the very best 4 or 5 scene DJs (plus maybe a Euro guest and a young up and comer DJ) playing at least a couple of hours each for the whole night . The whole spectrum of music will be played - Top 500, new 60's discoveries , modern , and even the Kings Go Forth (if you must!). If one of the DJs plays something you don't like, don't moan .... just sit down , keep quiet , be patient and then get back on the floor when something you like comes on.

Send a nice little letter to all the wannabee little local DJs dotted around the country and tell em to put their nice little DJ boxes away and just turn up to the big nights each week and just be punters again.

Quite simple really.

Anyone out there want to join me in a new business venture?

you from australia right?

taking that all the above is aimed at the uk

so how often do you get to the uk ?

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

surely all the clubs who fail to atrract audiences should close but it's nice when clubs that do attract people stay open and there music policy is accross the board. usually to me that is 60's/70's straight forward northern be it under played or over played oldie, modern, R & B and so on.

I usually prefer venues who play all styles in Northern soul even if i am 75% oldies fan i just enjoy some modern tunes and so on. i just hate people who moan like oh i hate oldies well your an idiot because why can't you just sit there and wait until something comes on you like. what if your at a venue and you in the room to music you like ie modern and a song comes on you not like would you moan (not likely more like sit and wait for something to come on you like that you can dance to).

i just go and listen to music when i am out i like pretty much a lot of the music but some to me are average songs, but if i feel like dancing to some of the records i like a lot i do, if they are the ultimate ones that are really close to my heart then i have to dance. if i do not like something i just wait until next one comes on

[BrianB]

The single greatest problem with the contemporary northern soul scene surely is that there are far too many people who "wanna be" - or pretend to be - DJ's .

Loads of 'em right here on Soul Source.

And these people have their own very personal and very subjective perspective on what they think should be played at a northern soul night and what they think the rest of the scene should be listening to .

Many of them only started to become serious collectors/DJ on their return to the scene because they now have much greater disposable income than they had when they were 19 years old, and rare records are much more easily accessible (just a credit card away on ebay and the internet).

Sadly the total sum of their record collections is pathetically limited and often runs to no more than a couple of hundred records, which they regularly turn over (sell one rarity to buy another one to DJ with : " oh ... I used to have that once ").

Even worse, their knowledge of soul music and what we used to call "black music" in general is minimal by anyone's standards and usually limited to the Top 500 northern !

And then the same people also see themselves as promoters. So they put on a little local soul night in some old backwater pub with maybe 50 people in, have 6 or 7 of their mates DJing with their boots and they tell us "we had a great night" but moan as to why they didn't have a 1000 in , instead of a paltry 50 , or moan about why young people don't turn up !

My understanding is that in the 60's and 70's just about all the legendary northern DJ's such as Searling Levine Curtis Soul Sam etc all had not only fairly massive record collections at a young age but had also established a love and breadth of knowledge of not only soul music but all related types of black music. They were regular working DJ's who knew how to DJ and knew how to work a crowd. They were serious players and they were right on top of their game and all the punters and dancers just knew they were in safe hands with Searling and Curtis and the others at the controls.

And until Wigan came along , the great venues only had at most two or three DJ's who played for the whole night. Fantastic ! The old timers tell me for example that one of the great things about the Torch was that Minshull and Curtis had several hours each to themselves to take people on a fabulous musical trip all night. They had time to work their sets , as well as the knowledge and the records to produce the goods . None of this nonsense that started with Wigan whereby you have 12 different DJs playing for a mere hour each over the course of the night ! How can a great DJ show their worth in an hour ? Easy for the hopeless DJ with a limited collection and even more limited knowledge of music to cover up his inadequacies when he only has to play 20 records in an hour ! And then you get repeat records played !

Just imagine, if you were booking Butch and Soul Sam for a night, why wouldn't you ask to play them three or four hours each instead of banging them in with 10 other fourth and fifth divison DJs for an hour at a time ?

And at the Twisted Wheel, it's well known that the DJ wasn't even that important . If you were a collector in those days and you found a rare and great record you took it along to the Wheel and gave it to whoever was behind the decks so that they could play it to the faithful. Legendary collectors like Brian Phillips (and even Levine apparently at that early stage) had no aspirations about becoming star DJs and personal glory for getting credit for finding and playing a rare record. No one cared as long as the record was heard.

And in the 60's and 70s there were only maybe two or three serious major venues at any one time driving the scene forward, supported of course by several smaller venues which also had an important role to play. There was a sense of unity and community of purpose amongst the punters and dancers. Everyone basically turned up as one.

Actually, it wouldn't take that much for the scene to again reach the heady heights of the 60's and 70s. All you need is one really big flash commercial club venue in London (to attract the newer younger crowd!) and another similar venue somewhere up north (capacity 1,500-2,000 each) . Make it a regular weekly allnighter every Saturday so you don't even need to think about what you're going to be doing from week to week. But at the same time advertise the scene to the general English public - don't be afraid to market and promote the product !

No different for example to the Premier League when football in the UK re-invented itself. Brand spanking new venues , the best players, promote the product. Great ! Can't miss ! Just don't eventually sell out to foreign billionaires !

Have only the very best 4 or 5 scene DJs (plus maybe a Euro guest and a young up and comer DJ) playing at least a couple of hours each for the whole night . The whole spectrum of music will be played - Top 500, new 60's discoveries , modern , and even the Kings Go Forth (if you must!). If one of the DJs plays something you don't like, don't moan .... just sit down , keep quiet , be patient and then get back on the floor when something you like comes on.

Send a nice little letter to all the wannabee little local DJs dotted around the country and tell em to put their nice little DJ boxes away and just turn up to the big nights each week and just be punters again.

Quite simple really.

Anyone out there want to join me in a new business venture?

All that time and effort spent on this nonsense!

[Jimmy A]

Totally agree with your point about numbers spread over too may venues. There are probably 12 - 15 venues to choose from in the East Midlands which means that on a Sat night there may be up to 3 venues competing against each other. Some promoters even try and run up to 3 venues a month with no difference in the music between them.

A couple of years ago promoters would ensure none of their venues clashed which meant a much more healthy attendance.

You missed out the fact they have the same djs on as well playing the same records

[Guest gordon russell]

the allnighter scene is brilliant....burnley,middleton,lifeline,the wilton and the citrus ect ect (not bin to the last two...yet).not forgetting the 100 down south.These venues all play good music most of the time.It's the soul night scene that is utter shite imo at least in my area,to many of them they are not really attended by soul fans,just middle age folk who used to like a bit of motown or folk who like to hear the same old same old.the promoters and dj's at this type of event are mostly back slapping wanna be's you dj for me and i''ll dj for you then we'll look important,these are the venues that really spoil it,there are exceptions but only a couple. the amigos however are having a wail of a time, cause we keep away from local scene.

[Jerry Hipkiss]

the promoters and dj's at this type of event are mostly back slapping wanna be's you dj for me and i''ll dj for you then we'll look important,these are the venues that really spoil it,there are exceptions but only a couple.

Well it must be something in the water 'cos I don't see that down here...

[Chalky]

The single greatest problem with the contemporary northern soul scene surely is that there are far too many people who "wanna be" - or pretend to be - DJ's .

Loads of 'em right here on Soul Source.

And these people have their own very personal and very subjective perspective on what they think should be played at a northern soul night and what they think the rest of the scene should be listening to .

Many of them only started to become serious collectors/DJ on their return to the scene because they now have much greater disposable income than they had when they were 19 years old, and rare records are much more easily accessible (just a credit card away on ebay and the internet).

Sadly the total sum of their record collections is pathetically limited and often runs to no more than a couple of hundred records, which they regularly turn over (sell one rarity to buy another one to DJ with : " oh ... I used to have that once ").

Even worse, their knowledge of soul music and what we used to call "black music" in general is minimal by anyone's standards and usually limited to the Top 500 northern !

And then the same people also see themselves as promoters. So they put on a little local soul night in some old backwater pub with maybe 50 people in, have 6 or 7 of their mates DJing with their boots and they tell us "we had a great night" but moan as to why they didn't have a 1000 in , instead of a paltry 50 , or moan about why young people don't turn up !

My understanding is that in the 60's and 70's just about all the legendary northern DJ's such as Searling Levine Curtis Soul Sam etc all had not only fairly massive record collections at a young age but had also established a love and breadth of knowledge of not only soul music but all related types of black music. They were regular working DJ's who knew how to DJ and knew how to work a crowd. They were serious players and they were right on top of their game and all the punters and dancers just knew they were in safe hands with Searling and Curtis and the others at the controls.

And until Wigan came along , the great venues only had at most two or three DJ's who played for the whole night. Fantastic ! The old timers tell me for example that one of the great things about the Torch was that Minshull and Curtis had several hours each to themselves to take people on a fabulous musical trip all night. They had time to work their sets , as well as the knowledge and the records to produce the goods . None of this nonsense that started with Wigan whereby you have 12 different DJs playing for a mere hour each over the course of the night ! How can a great DJ show their worth in an hour ? Easy for the hopeless DJ with a limited collection and even more limited knowledge of music to cover up his inadequacies when he only has to play 20 records in an hour ! And then you get repeat records played !

Just imagine, if you were booking Butch and Soul Sam for a night, why wouldn't you ask to play them three or four hours each instead of banging them in with 10 other fourth and fifth divison DJs for an hour at a time ?

And at the Twisted Wheel, it's well known that the DJ wasn't even that important . If you were a collector in those days and you found a rare and great record you took it along to the Wheel and gave it to whoever was behind the decks so that they could play it to the faithful. Legendary collectors like Brian Phillips (and even Levine apparently at that early stage) had no aspirations about becoming star DJs and personal glory for getting credit for finding and playing a rare record. No one cared as long as the record was heard.

And in the 60's and 70s there were only maybe two or three serious major venues at any one time driving the scene forward, supported of course by several smaller venues which also had an important role to play. There was a sense of unity and community of purpose amongst the punters and dancers. Everyone basically turned up as one.

Actually, it wouldn't take that much for the scene to again reach the heady heights of the 60's and 70s. All you need is one really big flash commercial club venue in London (to attract the newer younger crowd!) and another similar venue somewhere up north (capacity 1,500-2,000 each) . Make it a regular weekly allnighter every Saturday so you don't even need to think about what you're going to be doing from week to week. But at the same time advertise the scene to the general English public - don't be afraid to market and promote the product !

No different for example to the Premier League when football in the UK re-invented itself. Brand spanking new venues , the best players, promote the product. Great ! Can't miss ! Just don't eventually sell out to foreign billionaires !

Have only the very best 4 or 5 scene DJs (plus maybe a Euro guest and a young up and comer DJ) playing at least a couple of hours each for the whole night . The whole spectrum of music will be played - Top 500, new 60's discoveries , modern , and even the Kings Go Forth (if you must!). If one of the DJs plays something you don't like, don't moan .... just sit down , keep quiet , be patient and then get back on the floor when something you like comes on.

Send a nice little letter to all the wannabee little local DJs dotted around the country and tell em to put their nice little DJ boxes away and just turn up to the big nights each week and just be punters again.

Quite simple really.

Anyone out there want to join me in a new business venture?

I've said for a long time less dj's longer sets, more isn't better, just makes for a disjointed night with too many genres and sets not flowing. I also agree with you about wanna be dj's and promoters but the rest of your post makes little sense in relation to todays scene, not in the UK anyway.

[Reg]

There's still plenty of decent clubs to go to, and I don't mean allniters specifically as I'm not a big niter fan on the whole -Middleton,lifeline, 100 club and allniters at the weekenders are the only ones I tend to bother with and that's not that often. But yes there are some decent clubs around still - The Orwell, Greatstone, Hideaway, Taste of Honey are all great nights-I'm told Thorne, the Attic and United Sounds of Soul are good nights. I always have a good night at Broughton and Bury Town Hall and Lowton's not bad either.

So that's well enough for me!

Edited May 29, 2008 by reg

[Sunnysoul]

I've said for a long time less dj's longer sets, more isn't better, just makes for a disjointed night with too many genres and sets not flowing. I also agree with you about wanna be dj's and promoters but the rest of your post makes little sense in relation to todays scene, not in the UK anyway.

True Chalky , but doesn't any scene need a focus ?

Where the sum of the parts is greater than the individual parts themselves ?

Seems that in the case of the current northern scene, too often all the little parts keep pulling in different directions.

If there was to be a focus, with say just a couple of fabulous big venues every week , with the best DJs and the best records , playing the best of every style and more ... surely that would pull everyone together wouldn't it ?

[Jimmy A]

the allnighter scene is brilliant....burnley,middleton,lifeline,the wilton and the citrus ect ect (not bin to the last two...yet).not forgetting the 100 down south.These venues all play good music most of the time.It's the soul night scene that is utter shite imo at least in my area,to many of them they are not really attended by soul fans,just middle age folk who used to like a bit of motown or folk who like to hear the same old same old.the promoters and dj's at this type of event are mostly back slapping wanna be's you dj for me and i''ll dj for you then we'll look important,these are the venues that really spoil it,there are exceptions but only a couple. the amigos however are having a wail of a time, cause we keep away from local scene.

Couldn't have put it better myself.I used to go to alot of soul nights,they were really good but now have been spoilt by the above.Take away the townies and the middle age arseholes are you have an empty room.I used to see it all the time,a dj gets a bit brave puts something on a bit "different" not sure what that means,the floor clears,his ego goes out the window,the person that asked for it gets called.The dj chucks a few "wigan oldlies" for all those who never went and everyone is happy.Then promotors are saying "ooo numbers are down" Stop playing the same old crap and people might return.

If and when i go out now its looking like that im going to have to travel,which i think you shouldn't really need to but thats the way it is i suppose,if you want to hear decent tunes.

One thing i liked to ask is...is there really an answer to it all.you cant make people shut thevenues down.I know there are a couple in notts that dont do that well but that people run them just keep putting them on.They seem to be happy with 50 in a place dancing to the same old stuff.oh well onwards and upwards

[Mak]

You missed out the fact they have the same djs on as well playing the same records

Don't forget Jim , same punters also. Same old records , same old punters . How boring.

[Pete S]

when people refer to the glory days w/c, mecca, etc there were very few nighters on the go so everyone was concentrated in one place

It was a million times better back then...

[Jimmy A]

Don't forget Jim , same punters also. Same old records , same old punters . How boring.

soul nights to me now are just way off the mark.fatius and me were saying the other day why do you feel that you have to go to an alnighter to hear good soul music.I know thats not the case everywhere and all the time but it just seems that way.

I know some of the tunes are out of reach for some people but they dont have to be big ticket tunes,ive been to bidds and crossfire and heard £15 tunes played

One more thing some pissed up middle aged twat trying to dance and saying to me you're too young to remember this stuff dont make a great soul night!

[Jimmy A]

It was a million times better back then...

It was better only about 6-7 years ago in nottingham.a few really good soul nights and they are still going but the thing that spoils them is that the fact that there seems to be a new place every week springing up and numbers are dropping and so they are playing the same old shite trying to keep people happy when all they are doing is driving some people away.

As i said before is there an answer to it.

[Mak]

I can't speak for anyone else who lives in a differant area to me but , I have just counted soul events in the East Midlands last month and it broke down to this

May 2/3rd = 6

May 9/10th = 7

May 16/17th = 3

May23/24th = 7

On top of that there where at least 6 more events not advertised on here, a grand total of 29 events in Notts/Derbys , out of the 29 there are only 6 events that either play rarer/underplayed - crossover . You can draw your own conclusions to the soul scene in the east midlands on the whole .

On the other hand for the band of soul music followers who prefer something differant it's great , it means we don't get bogged down with the same old music played by the same dj's to the same crowd twice every weekend . The venues I attend both regulary or occasionally are fresh and the future of the soul scene , the type of event that used to be there when it went underground , long live soul music

[martynthejazz]

SUNNYSOUL - Some good points there mate, nice long post.

PETE S.- Was better in the old days only cos it was all NEW to us all...

Think the scene is doing ok.. but if no new blood starts coming along ? Then there could be probs in the future..

Thank god there is a younger crowd from far a field getting into this type of music now.

Very much doubt records we danced to in the 70s... and some still do, (inc me) can last another 20, 30 years..ha

Days are numbered i feel.... give it 10 years... then lets see whats going on..

[Guest helsbob]

I can't believe people can honestly complain about the soul scene - there has got to be do's on every week accross the board to suit everyones taste in music. Personally I prefer early r&b/soul music, there are so many do's I need to get to that cater for r&b, for me it's a problem trying to get to them all. I don't personally like going to a do that covers every genre; it dilutes the passion, whether it's modern, 70's or whatever. A venue that has rooms which cater specifically for the different genre's seems to work better, you know what you're getting and often the short Dj spots and variety of Dj's can add to a night.

I have only been going to soul do's in the past 16 years so I cannot comment on the 'good old days'. But for me personally the past 3 years have opened my ears upto the most exciting music ever and I often choose mod events due to the dj line up . People appear too bothered about how many people attend - maybe I'm in a minority I go to a do 'cause it's going to play the type of music I want to hear and dance too -More room on the dance floor - Just an opinion.

[Guest Matt Male]

Lots of issues here. Here's my two pennuth...

To sunnysoul who thinks only the top DJs should be allowed to do their stuff, that's the best way create a stagnant scene. I can't count the times i hear the same big money records from the same big name DJs over and over again from one nighter to the next. Give me a dedicated small time collector any day of the week who hasn't bought big money or popular tunes and can put together a different set. Lots of money and a massive collection don't make you a good DJ. I think sunnysoul should name all the wanna-be DJs on here who have boxes of boots since he says 'most of em are on soul source' or doesn't he have the balls? His criticism of these people is that they have a subjective and personal opinion of what should be played, well doh! isn't that what DJing is about? This premier league and fourth division bullshit is insulting and patronising to people who run successful soul nights month in month out.

Personally, as Mark Freeman says, i find the allnighter scene better than ever. The soul night scene however needs to get it's act together. I do agree with sunnysoul that nothing out of the top 500 should probably ever be played again and i would love to go out and here rarely played, underplayed and new stuff every weekend but at the end of the day every promotor has their eye on numbers in their venue and unfortunately the numbers are with the oldies crowd at present, maybe that will change.

I'd also say everywhere needs to go to original vinyl only. Can we please dump the CDs, the boots, the reissues and the laptops and force DJs to play only what they own on original vinyl. This is the best way to get different and eclectic sets from a range of different DJs. This half way compromise with some people playing OVO and others on the same night playing CDs and boots is unbelievable. Are we a rare soul scene based on vinyl or not? This would provide the focus sunnysoul was on about, it would get rid of the wannabe DJs with their boots (whoever they are) and maybe thin down the venues. It seems the scene has really lost it's way on the original vinyl only front and something needs to change soon.

I don't think the scene is on it's arse by a long shout. I think people should stop playing retro-sound tribute band records though...

[Bazza]

soul nights to me now are just way off the mark.fatius and me were saying the other day why do you feel that you have to go to an alnighter to hear good soul music.I know thats not the case everywhere and all the time but it just seems that way.

I know some of the tunes are out of reach for some people but they dont have to be big ticket tunes,ive been to bidds and crossfire and heard £15 tunes played

One more thing some pissed up middle aged twat trying to dance and saying to me you're too young to remember this stuff dont make a great soul night!

Ay !..ive never said that to you Jim

Bazza

Come to think of it, bit passed middle aged an all

Edited May 29, 2008 by bazza

[TOAD]

russ playing boots and cds at nuneaton

[Madmandy]

I go to certain soul night because they play the music I like and the music policy suits me I'm definitely not ashamed to say I love oldies so I head for oldies venues.

Ive never really liked the term "across the board" IMO It give the DJs /promoters cart blanche to play any crap they want.

If a venue has two rooms that states what type of music is played in each room thats fine ..then you can stay in the room that plays what you like.

I read somewhere ...that folks were getting sick of the same BIG promoters dominating the scene well this is where the small venues come in.

Mak I love fact I have so much to choose from in the midlands ...variety is the spice of life afterall

Ive been to venues where the play modern /RnB/crossover/rarities/underplayed/and so on

I still prefer oldies ...they have the sound and quality that makes me high/happy without pills!!!! (yet another life choice of mine )

NO ONE owns the soul scene ..its OURS to share

Its our own choice as to where we go what we listen to NO ONE is forcing us to go where we dont want to.

Be happy whatever you do within the soul scene

Im sure theres far too much analysing!!!!!

Mand (still a happy soulie)

[Sunnysoul]

Lots of issues here. Here's my two pennuth...

To sunnysoul who thinks only the top DJs should be allowed to do their stuff, that's the best way create a stagnant scene. I can't count the times i hear the same big money records from the same big name DJs over and over again from one nighter to the next. Give me a dedicated small time collector any day of the week who hasn't bought big money or popular tunes and can put together a different set. Lots of money and a massive collection don't make you a good DJ. I think sunnysoul should name all the wanna-be DJs on here who have boxes of boots since he says 'most of em are on soul source' or doesn't he have the balls? His criticism of these people is that they have a subjective and personal opinion of what should be played, well doh! isn't that what DJing is about? This premier league and fourth division bullshit is insulting and patronising to people who run successful soul nights month in month out.

Personally, as Mark Freeman says, i find the allnighter scene better than ever. The soul night scene however needs to get it's act together. I do agree with sunnysoul that nothing out of the top 500 should probably ever be played again and i would love to go out and here rarely played, underplayed and new stuff every weekend but at the end of the day every promotor has their eye on numbers in their venue and unfortunately the numbers are with the oldies crowd at present, maybe that will change.

I'd also say everywhere needs to go to original vinyl only. Can we please dump the CDs, the boots, the reissues and the laptops and force DJs to play only what they own on original vinyl. This is the best way to get different and eclectic sets from a range of different DJs. This half way compromise with some people playing OVO and others on the same night playing CDs and boots is unbelievable. Are we a rare soul scene based on vinyl or not? This would provide the focus sunnysoul was on about, it would get rid of the wannabe DJs with their boots (whoever they are) and maybe thin down the venues. It seems the scene has really lost it's way on the original vinyl only front and something needs to change soon.

I don't think the scene is on it's arse by a long shout. I think people should stop playing retro-sound tribute band records though...

Matt, no one is suggesting that the whole thing be restricted to a handful of big name DJ's but rather, if you give the big names say ... a 3 hour framework with which to work in ... then they will deliver the goods. Why ? Because they can. They have the ability ... and the capability to pull it off.

For example , wasn't it Butch who caused a stir one night slipping in Marvin & Tammi ? A 5 quid record no less ! Imagine what a bloody great ride it would be if you gave Butch a 3 hour unbroken set . No doubt he'd play a bit of everything ... from one off's to Motown classics to RnB to modern to 5 quid records and so on and so on ...

And the up and coming young DJ's with real talent will also eventually find their way to the top. The cream will always rise to the top.

And no one is suggesting that the great current venues shut down. The good ones will thrive and/or survive on their own merits and continue to play an important role.

The point is ... think about the big picture.

A 2000 + plus weekly allnighter in a super venue. One that will please everyone ! It is possible !

It can be done.

If there is the will, then there is the way ! (thanks Jimmy Thomas)

[Chalky]

True Chalky , but doesn't any scene need a focus ?

Where the sum of the parts is greater than the individual parts themselves ?

Seems that in the case of the current northern scene, too often all the little parts keep pulling in different directions.

If there was to be a focus, with say just a couple of fabulous big venues every week , with the best DJs and the best records , playing the best of every style and more ... surely that would pull everyone together wouldn't it ?

the all-nighter scene these days is too small to sustain a large venue week in week out. Add to this family and work commitments, the rising cost of petrol, food etc, this will have an effect on what people do with their money and where they go.

There are too many wanna be dj's and promoters who dj at their own venues and there mates venues only who as you say aren't good enough for the nighter scene (too many nighter dj's not good enough either) who will have no where to dj. I can't see them focusing on the wider picture some how.

[Chalky]

I would also add that the majority of punters who go to venues prefer not to do an all-nighter these days due to various commitments, work, family, too old to stop up all night whatever. If asked most would prefer a soul night with a 3 or 4am finish at the latest. You only have to see how many disappear at allnighters now at around 4am or so. The hardcore nighter scene is probably 3 or 400 strong at most, spread over the whole country.

[Wiganer1]

russ playing boots and cds at nuneaton

=====

oh dear we've really got a problem here aint we Toad.....not sure if its Russ or Nuneaton ure having a go at but i have to reply and here goes.

ive had many comments about Russ and why I have him on at Nuneaton

that nite was a 2nd anniversary and i wanted a wigan oldies special

i do this once a year and who else would i get to dj than the main man himself, Russ whether you like it or not started the Casino and ran it for 8 years giving it the lecagy it has today..he has many critics mainly from the purists but also has a lot of fans out there...and is always popular.

At the last nuneaton Russ came,,mingled in with the crowd,signed books came and had a laugh and stayed after his spot..

i dont book Russ for his record collection i do it for the package and because I WANT TO and i can ,i ve looked in Russs box of vynil when he does bring them and they are not ALL boots either believe it or not.

Russ is not the only old time Dj on the circuit that doesn't play all original vynil but like him they are earning a living dj'ing - who am I or you to say they cant do this because they don't have original vynil..

A well-known dj followed me at a major do last year and 1^st 7 records we were all boots!! So I know it feels when you've got the records (like I have) and these djs come and spin these and probably get paid more cash !!

I used to get really upset about it all but today I don't care - lifes too short and really you are NEVER going to stop it.. so that's why I'm much more relaxed these days. But that doesn't mean I don't care about the scene or the music

Now to my venue ,,,now in our 3^rd year I try and run alternate nights 100% oldies and then across the board with the accent on uptempo 60s & 70s oldies

Me and fordy have built our venue up slowly over this time and our last 3 Nuneaton Coops have been packed not just the Oldies nights - just ask Sean Chapman!!..

We've had many guests including Mick H, Ted Massey and will get some more big names next year ..ive also got a core of residents who do a great mix of stuff and coupled with this I've given numerous newer djs a chance to play their records on a bigger stage and will continue to do so. As I know what its like more than anyone to come across brick walls on the Northern Scene reference Dj'ing.

Then you've got me .. wigan oldie mad ..always play uptempo stuff 60s or 70s - will always play what im into and what I think people will dance to - im buying new stuff all the time (not just wigan stuff) and cant wait to spin em all out when im djing im also renowned for throwing something in that no one would ever play - , etc but ill always play off orginals when I can which is 99% of the time ... when the times right and conditions are right ill play more eclectic and rarer sounds and on my night can be as good as anyone!

as i stated we over 300 at our last do so we must be doing something right!

blimey seems to have rambled on a bit but as you can see im just as passionate as anyone whether its at my soul nite,other soul nites or indeed all niters specking of which see you at Sheffield all niter on Friday night!

Atb

Mark

[TOAD]

=====

oh dear we've really got a problem here aint we Toad.....not sure if its Russ or Nuneaton ure having a go at but i have to reply and here goes.

ive had many comments about Russ and why I have him on at Nuneaton

that nite wI'd also say everywhere needs to go to original vinyl only. Can we please dump the CDs, the boots, the reissues and the laptops and force DJs to play only what they own on original vinyl. as a 2nd anniversary and i wanted a wigan oldies special

i do this once a year and who else would i get to dj than the main man himself, Russ whether you like it or not started the Casino and ran it for 8 years giving it the lecagy it has today..he has many critics mainly from the purists but also has a lot of fans out there...and is always popular.

At the last nuneaton Russ came,,mingled in with the crowd,signed books came and had a laugh and stayed after his spot..

i dont book Russ for his record collection i do it for the package and because I WANT TO and i can ,i ve looked in Russs box of vynil when he does bring them and they are not ALL boots either believe it or not.

Russ is not the only old time Dj on the circuit that doesn't play all original vynil but like him they are earning a living dj'ing - who am I or you to say they cant do this because they don't have original vynil..

A well-known dj followed me at a major do last year and 1^st 7 records we were all boots!! So I know it feels when you've got the records (like I have) and these djs come and spin these and probably get paid more cash !!

I used to get really upset about it all but today I don't care - lifes too short and really you are NEVER going to stop it.. so that's why I'm much more relaxed these days. But that doesn't mean I don't care about the scene or the music

Now to my venue ,,,now in our 3^rd year I try and run alternate nights 100% oldies and then across the board with the accent on uptempo 60s & 70s oldies

Me and fordy have built our venue up slowly over this time and our last 3 Nuneaton Coops have been packed not just the Oldies nights - just ask Sean Chapman!!..

We've had many guests including Mick H, Ted Massey and will get some more big names next year ..ive also got a core of residents who do a great mix of stuff and coupled with this I've given numerous newer djs a chance to play their records on a bigger stage and will continue to do so. As I know what its like more than anyone to come across brick walls on the Northern Scene reference Dj'ing.

Then you've got me .. wigan oldie mad ..always play uptempo stuff 60s or 70s - will always play what im into and what I think people will dance to - im buying new stuff all the time (not just wigan stuff) and cant wait to spin em all out when im djing im also renowned for throwing something in that no one would ever play - , etc but ill always play off orginals when I can which is 99% of the time ... when the times right and conditions are right ill play more eclectic and rarer sounds and on my night can be as good as anyone!

as i stated we over 300 at our last do so we must be doing something right!

blimey seems to have rambled on a bit but as you can see im just as passionate as anyone whether its at my soul nite,other soul nites or indeed all niters specking of which see you at Sheffield all niter on Friday night!

Atb

Mark

I'd also say everywhere needs to go to original vinyl only. Can we please dump the CDs, the boots, the reissues and the laptops and force DJs to play only what they own on original vinyl.

[Wiganer1]

TOAD I'M UP FOR THAT BUT YOU WILL ALWAYS GET PROMOTERS THAT WONT!!

IT'LL NEVER GO AWAY.

[TOAD]

mark im not having a go at you in fact ive commented to you on your enthusasim

what made me laugh is the orig viynal quote from a fellow nuneaton dj!

you carnt have a go at me as i have suported your venues before the returnees came back, there does however sem to be a cut off point with wigan oldies ie they sem to be before 1979.

[Wiganer1]

mark im not having a go at you in fact ive commented to you on your enthusasim

what made me laugh is the orig viynal quote from a fellow nuneaton dj!

you carnt have a go at me as i have suported your venues before the returnees came back, there does however sem to be a cut off point with wigan oldies ie they sem to be before 1979.

====

i aint having a go with you bud just supporting my venue mate

ill keep doing things my way mate til i enjoy it no more ..

its about opinions at the end of the day and we'll never always agree and its only we because we love it so much and that we care...

come and say hello next time we do meet and ill get the pints in

atb

mark

[BrianB]

soul nights to me now are just way off the mark.fatius and me were saying the other day why do you feel that you have to go to an alnighter to hear good soul music.I know thats not the case everywhere and all the time but it just seems that way.

I know some of the tunes are out of reach for some people but they dont have to be big ticket tunes,ive been to bidds and crossfire and heard £15 tunes played

One more thing some pissed up middle aged twat trying to dance and saying to me you're too young to remember this stuff dont make a great soul night!

Thats 2 references to middle aged t...s. I am one of these, possibly the worst dancer the scene has ever seen, but whats that got to do with you?

Probably 60% of people on here are middle aged. If you don't like us being around why go to venues?

[Guest nusha]

We have 2 rival events in my town.One Motown orientated /oldies policy.The other a genuine across the board selection that features vintage RnB and Modern underplayed oldies and emerging monsters.

Both have their hardcore devotees but many of the punters are the same.Its clear that the cutting edge stuff still comes from the all nighters and long may that remain the case although many of us cant fit them in these days.Whatever you like its important to support your chosen DJ/Promoter the best you can.There are a lot that are mediocre but many who are concerned about quality.

[Sunnysoul]

the all-nighter scene these days is too small to sustain a large venue week in week out. Add to this family and work commitments, the rising cost of petrol, food etc, this will have an effect on what people do with their money and where they go.

There are too many wanna be dj's and promoters who dj at their own venues and there mates venues only who as you say aren't good enough for the nighter scene (too many nighter dj's not good enough either) who will have no where to dj. I can't see them focusing on the wider picture some how.

I take on board what you're saying Chalky but isn't one of the central issues to this whole discussion - if not the central issue - all about taking the scene on to a whole new level and bringing on board a whole new wave of (predominantly younger) people ?

As for those currently on the scene, well, those with an open mind and who can see beyond the horizon will come along for another bloody great ride , while the rest ... well they are free to choose to gracefully slip away if they like . And that's OK too. It's their choice.

If it's done in the right way and with the right people in charge who have the vision and the talent and the ability and the will to do it (and hopefully the monetary resources) , the potential would be absolutely frightening. We're talking about people who see the big picture. The really big picture.

Basic human nature tells us that if you put something new and big and exciting out there then the masses will naturally gravitate towards it. And when the product is so good - SOUL MUSIC !!! - then you're on the way, surely .

Once again, I hear stories from older friends on the original scene about what happened after the Torch shut down. Apparently the scene floundered for almost a year with no great direction or hope and then suddenly this f-cking great monster called Wigan Casino came along and ... whoosh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wigan just naturally dragged everyone and everything else along with it, right? Like a massive tsunami. And it introduced a whole lot of people who had never experienced the soul scene before.

There is unquestionably a huge number of disparate and varied groups of people out there in the UK and Europe and indeed all over the world ( beyond the narrow framework of people you're referring to) with either a serious or general or passing interest in Soul music who are just ripe for another monster like Wigan Casino to come along again and just drag them all together.

I think the only thing holding all this back is that there are a number of people on the scene who find the thought of this, well ... "frightening" ... it's a fear of losing what's been dear to their hearts for so long. And I can understand that. Perfectly normal.

But if you want to take this scene onwards and upwards then you've simply got to be prepared to do what's necessary to take it there ... even if that means leaving behind some of the people who made it so great. Sad but that's life.

The analogy with English football and its re-invention in the form of the Premier League is a perfect example of all this. Remember, English Football was in serious decline until someone had the vision and will to change everything ... and look at how that has progressed !!!

The potential for the Soul scene and soul culture , in its own way, is equally phenomenal , if the right people really want to take it there.

Edited May 29, 2008 by sunnysoul

[Guest Una Scot-Oz]

The single greatest problem with the contemporary northern soul scene surely is that there are far too many people who "wanna be" - or pretend to be - DJ's .

Loads of 'em right here on Soul Source.

And these people have their own very personal and very subjective perspective on what they think should be played at a northern soul night and what they think the rest of the scene should be listening to .

Many of them only started to become serious collectors/DJ on their return to the scene because they now have much greater disposable income than they had when they were 19 years old, and rare records are much more easily accessible (just a credit card away on ebay and the internet).

Sadly the total sum of their record collections is pathetically limited and often runs to no more than a couple of hundred records, which they regularly turn over (sell one rarity to buy another one to DJ with : " oh ... I used to have that once ").

Even worse, their knowledge of soul music and what we used to call "black music" in general is minimal by anyone's standards and usually limited to the Top 500 northern !

And then the same people also see themselves as promoters. So they put on a little local soul night in some old backwater pub with maybe 50 people in, have 6 or 7 of their mates DJing with their boots and they tell us "we had a great night" but moan as to why they didn't have a 1000 in , instead of a paltry 50 , or moan about why young people don't turn up !

My understanding is that in the 60's and 70's just about all the legendary northern DJ's such as Searling Levine Curtis Soul Sam etc all had not only fairly massive record collections at a young age but had also established a love and breadth of knowledge of not only soul music but all related types of black music. They were regular working DJ's who knew how to DJ and knew how to work a crowd. They were serious players and they were right on top of their game and all the punters and dancers just knew they were in safe hands with Searling and Curtis and the others at the controls.

And until Wigan came along , the great venues only had at most two or three DJ's who played for the whole night. Fantastic ! The old timers tell me for example that one of the great things about the Torch was that Minshull and Curtis had several hours each to themselves to take people on a fabulous musical trip all night. They had time to work their sets , as well as the knowledge and the records to produce the goods . None of this nonsense that started with Wigan whereby you have 12 different DJs playing for a mere hour each over the course of the night ! How can a great DJ show their worth in an hour ? Easy for the hopeless DJ with a limited collection and even more limited knowledge of music to cover up his inadequacies when he only has to play 20 records in an hour ! And then you get repeat records played !

Just imagine, if you were booking Butch and Soul Sam for a night, why wouldn't you ask to play them three or four hours each instead of banging them in with 10 other fourth and fifth divison DJs for an hour at a time ?

And at the Twisted Wheel, it's well known that the DJ wasn't even that important . If you were a collector in those days and you found a rare and great record you took it along to the Wheel and gave it to whoever was behind the decks so that they could play it to the faithful. Legendary collectors like Brian Phillips (and even Levine apparently at that early stage) had no aspirations about becoming star DJs and personal glory for getting credit for finding and playing a rare record. No one cared as long as the record was heard.

And in the 60's and 70s there were only maybe two or three serious major venues at any one time driving the scene forward, supported of course by several smaller venues which also had an important role to play. There was a sense of unity and community of purpose amongst the punters and dancers. Everyone basically turned up as one.

Actually, it wouldn't take that much for the scene to again reach the heady heights of the 60's and 70s. All you need is one really big flash commercial club venue in London (to attract the newer younger crowd!) and another similar venue somewhere up north (capacity 1,500-2,000 each) . Make it a regular weekly allnighter every Saturday so you don't even need to think about what you're going to be doing from week to week. But at the same time advertise the scene to the general English public - don't be afraid to market and promote the product !

No different for example to the Premier League when football in the UK re-invented itself. Brand spanking new venues , the best players, promote the product. Great ! Can't miss ! Just don't eventually sell out to foreign billionaires !

Have only the very best 4 or 5 scene DJs (plus maybe a Euro guest and a young up and comer DJ) playing at least a couple of hours each for the whole night . The whole spectrum of music will be played - Top 500, new 60's discoveries , modern , and even the Kings Go Forth (if you must!). If one of the DJs plays something you don't like, don't moan .... just sit down , keep quiet , be patient and then get back on the floor when something you like comes on.

Send a nice little letter to all the wannabee little local DJs dotted around the country and tell em to put their nice little DJ boxes away and just turn up to the big nights each week and just be punters again.

Quite simple really.

Anyone out there want to join me in a new business venture?

And all this from someone who turns up with a box full of boots (apparently the originals are at home) - 5 mins before a spot, plays records that have been already played by other so called "wanna be DJ's" then leaves again Never supports any other night he hasn't been invited to DJ at.

We are all waiting with bated breath for the Sunday event you have been planning for the last six months. It's certainly going to be tough getting used to battling our way through a queue of over 1000 punters again! At least I know what that is actually like having attended events in the UK, unlike you.

Goodluck to you with your bigtime promotions, I'm sure Linda will show up.

Like Madmandy says in her post I prefer the smaller select crowds. The friendship is also a big part of the scene, and I think that's where the "wanna be Big DJ's " don't quite get it. Instead of standing behind the decks for 3 hours the "wanna be DJ's" actually enjoy socialising with their mates. You should try it sometime, it's great fun. Oops, you may end up telling people you had a great night, that would never do, you could end up losing your focus...

[Guest Matt Male]

russ playing boots and cds at nuneaton

Exactly my point Tim. This is the experience i'm talking about. I was on the spot just before Russ and the first thing he said to me when he came up was 'How does the CD player work?' and I said i hadn't got a clue.

I've had endless discussions (arguments maybe) with Mark over the playing of boots/CDs at Nuneaton when he asks my advice. I always say the same thing to him so this post will be no surprise. I'm always honest in my opinions.

I never play CDs and boots when i DJ at Nuneaton and i wish others wouldn't but it's not my call as i'm not the promotor and it's not my money on the line. I only help advertise Nuneaton and did the website to promote the venue but Mark and Fordy say what goes. It's up to them.

So far Nuneaton has been massively successful, it's been absolutely rammed for the last three dates at least. I doubt there's a soul night in the country that's better attended. Mark and Fordy have done a phenomenal job and it's bloody hard to keep a successful venue going as we can see from the ones that fail every week. I have nothing but total respect for Mark and i've known him for probably thirty years and without him Nuneaton wouldn't have a soul scene in my opinion. Maybe being an oldies night makes a difference with less pressure to play rarely played stuff, who knows?

Edited May 29, 2008 by Matt Male