A Sign Of The Times

[Rob Wigley]

Here is a link to a news article that caught my eye today, we talk about the demise of traditional record shops, but no CD singles any more !! Wow !

look here

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/vdunet/20080527/t...ia-6315470.html

CDs are alive and well for album sales, but the physical singles market is in terminal decline.

Rob & karen

Edited May 27, 2008 by Karen and Rob Wigley

[Pete S]

I think In 10 years time there will be no cd albums for sale in any shops...nobody needs them anymore. They'll become like betamax videos. I've put my entire collection onto a hard drive, sold all the originals, and I take what I want from it and put it onto the mp3 player or make 300 track cd compilations to play in the car.

[Harrogatesoul]

I would think the likes of CDBaby and other various digital sources are putting some pressure on those specialists that sell CD's these days especially re. new product. Not surprised to see Woolies discontinuing CDS.

Rich

[Rob Wigley]

I,ve been thinking about this since I posted, how do Artist actually get the product out there these days ? promos on MP 3 with a big red A on 'em?

Give me the simple life !

By the way Pete can you imagine having all your collection on a Hard drive (presume its detachable) and leaving it on a bus ?

Phone call to the Lost property department "Err I've left my record collection on your No39 bus mate, anybody found it, about 300 albums ?"

still blows my mind !

Rob

[Pete S]

I,ve been thinking about this since I posted, how do Artist actually get the product out there these days ? promos on MP 3 with a big red A on 'em?

Give me the simple life !

By the way Pete can you imagine having all your collection on a Hard drive (presume its detachable) and leaving it on a bus ?

Phone call to the Lost property department "Err I've left my record collection on your No39 bus mate, anybody found it, about 300 albums ?"

still blows my mind !

Rob

Yeah it is mind-boggling. I remember down in Hastings, I had like a thousand albums in one room and they took up every bit of space, now I can get that amount into my pocket! I know it's not the same, and I appreciate the fantastic archive opportunities that cd's bought us, but I still think it's going to be a dodo in a few years time - whereas the LP will never die out...remember when you were a teenager, walking down the road with your current favourite LP under your arm to see if you got any glances...I wonder whatever did happen to my New Seekers album

[Guest Carl Dixon]

I read here that 'vinyl is the final nail in the coffin' for CD singles:

https://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/c...teningpost_1029

I have just been to see a record distributor nd we spoke about vinyl and mp3's only!

[Soul-slider]

I must admit, I foresaw the demise of the CD single a few bloody years ago! The CD single is virtually the same as the CD album but not with as many tracks on it! Nobody wants them, they'd rather have the whole CD album.

My missus is a great CD lover and hardly ever bought a CD single, she alway's waited for the album to come out.

I don't think the CD album will die out and be replaced by mp3's, for some maybe, but most people want something physical that they can hold in their hands and look at/read (the booklets you get with CD albums are great).

Vinyl is SEXY and always will be, my 2 teenage daughters love the L.Ps (they're not too keen on the 45's) and one is already going on about buying some decks when she gets her own pad, competition!!

Go into HMV and you can buy almost any current album in vinyl format.

[Rob Wigley]

I read here that 'vinyl is the final nail in the coffin' for CD singles:

https://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/c...teningpost_1029

I have just been to see a record distributor nd we spoke about vinyl and mp3's only!

Is this the proof of the old saying "What goes round, comes round" ?

Also this topic was being discussed on Chris Evans "drive Time" Radio 2 at 6.30 pm today, they said the CD single would be dead and gone very soon !

[Guest Matt Male]

By the way Pete can you imagine having all your collection on a Hard drive (presume its detachable) and leaving it on a bus ?

Rob

This made me think. I wonder if there are any DJs out there (obviously not on the rare soul scene) who have their whole collection on an external hard drive, carry it to the venue, plug it into the venue laptop/DJ console USB and just select tracks off the hard drive?

Imagine having your entire collection at your disposal when DJing...

[Guest Paul]

Interesting thread...

Many people have thought of CD singles as being little more than good promotional tools for a while now. Woolworths are following a general trend, many other retailers stopped stocking CD singles long ago.

The stores who do stock CD singles usually have a very narrow range anyway, typical pop idol winners etc.

One of the problems has been that there is very little money to be made in CD singles. Most retailers were wanting to sell them at £1.99 or £2.99. They'd rather use the space for CD albums which obviously provide higher returns.

Although the 7" vinyl single is popular, let's not forget that it's still a "specialist" format and most major retailers don't stock them. Vinyl sales continue to rise but sales are still very low in comparison to CDs and MP3s and the prices are often too low. Again, in many cases the vinyl single is used to promote interest in the CD album.

The music industry didn't try to save the CD single format, in fact they made things worse by restricting the content (in order to qualify for the charts) and reducing prices. That devalued music even further.

Rather than try to boost interest in CD singles, the music industry tried to replace them with new formats - such as the ridiculous "memory stick singles" (USB singles) which were awkward, expensive and contained just two or three MP3 tracks which were copy protected. Not suprisingly, they didn't catch on.

As albums have become cheaper it was inevitable that singles would suffer. The sad thing is that singles were once the lifeblood of the music industry for launching new talent. These days a band needs to record an entire album before they can "enter the race".

The major department stores and supermarkets have been dictating terms to the music industry for too long. For that reason I wish more people would buy music from specialist or independent retailers ...while we still have some.

Best regards,

Paul Mooney

[Sutty]

I find one of the most disturbing aspects of the loss of physical product like vinyl/cd on the high street is that - where are the people who don't have the disposable income to buy a computer and get a broadband connection - and more importantly do not have a credit card - going to be able to purchase to music? i've been in the situation where I couldn't afford the luxury of expensive electrical items, did not have a credit card, but I could still pick up a new release 45 if I wanted it, as it was only a few quid. Without having the investment to buy all the products to play them on in the first place, what are you gonna do?

same for the tv and radio when they switch off the analogue airwaves soon - not everybody has £100 for a digital radio, £300 for a HD TV, money for a sky subscription, a digi box, etc - the poorer people are going to be cut out of society even more, there appears to be little concern over any of this.

how many of you older guys hitched to an allnighter regularly, spent what little money you had left on a few pressings, but could at least hear the music? you can't do that now.

cheers Paul

[Guest Paul]

Good point.

You don't see many shops or market stalls selling second-hand MP3s at five for a pound of whatever.

It seems the "new world" isn't designed for people who don't have computers / broadband connections etc.

Of course I blame Thatcher.

Best regards,

Paul

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

My sort of thread. First of all cd singles are cheap ie 1.99 or even 99p some (very few) and 2.99. i buy them every week one of a few who still does to me they are imporant in some way down to extra tracks contained if the band chooses to add same as with the vinyl records. Woolworths are doing what Asda years ago. It might well be the end soon seeing as HMV where i am no longer have the singles chart and only ever sell latest cd singles in a small section at front of store usually each week singles are taken off to be replaced by the new ones of the week.

What would happen when it's gone, mp3 or download singles will take place and is that the way the radio stations or whoever will have to promote the band's latest music offering instead of waiting for an album to hand pick any track. If an artist recorded extra music not for there album but as b sides then it would have to be done as a single download if the cd single or vinyl was actually released. The way forward sometimes for new bands to emerge is from cd singles or would they say downloads but to me downloads does not solve the problem not just in singles but albums when someone like me won't pay to download tracks or albums when i would rather buy a physical album(only admit to buying about 20 songs in my life of itunes and still most was Northern and Motown). Surely to reach people something has to be released first in some format before an album and same with recording it and sending it to radio stations and so on do they all just give them e-mails with mp3 attachments to say latest offering of a new band or exisiting bands new single.

I do wish vinyl records will still be made and that it don't go the way like cd singles or there are ways of keeping them made for the die hard fans who want to buy them. Because i buy vinyl for collectors reasons as much as the artist/song itself. I like buying a lot of Indie and rock and stuff on vinyl which to a collector is always gonna push prices up especially if it's there first release or first and 2nd etc before they actually are famous ie i have Duffy's first single rockferry on vinyl which when it came out wasn't that big it was until Mercy when she got to No 1 everyone noticed how big she was becoming, so duffy single before Mercy surely would now become more of a rarity in the future .

Why people would choose to think downloading tracks or buy the album is the best way if they fail to get anything done for the singles released but there argument would be i can download that aswell but here's an example of latest releases all released this week

on cd Alanis Morisette new single with a b side (not on album)

Alphabeat new single with a b side but live recording of it

Taio Cruz new single on cd with a b side, remix of 1st track and remix of a another track

(i am sure all 3 of some of them were on vinyl too but i hadn't looked and would have noticed Alphabeat and Alanis Morrisette with vinyl records i did look at which were 7")

so here goes Duffy, Paul Weller, Fratellies, The Zuttons, Gulliemots and Go Audio all have singles out on vinyl (cd i persume aswell but didn't go looking for on that format) and they all have a b side which won't come on there album. Do fans of such bands not want these or would they not collect every physically format or are they just happy to say i can buy the album or download any b side i see on there cd/vinyl single.

lastly some cd singles come with video's to watch on computers and vinyl is not just about a black plastic record but it came with coloured vinyl or even picture disc

[mischief]

remember when you were a teenager, walking down the road with your current favourite LP under your arm to see if you got any glances...I wonder whatever did happen to my New Seekers album

I had this conversation at work the other day, some one told me in the 70s there was a special walk when you carried your LP home.. and you never used a carrier bag so the whole world could see it

[Ian Dewhirst]

This made me think. I wonder if there are any DJs out there (obviously not on the rare soul scene) who have their whole collection on an external hard drive, carry it to the venue, plug it into the venue laptop/DJ console USB and just select tracks off the hard drive?

Imagine having your entire collection at your disposal when DJing...

The possibilities are HUGE!

This for someone like me is progress.

I've got very eclectic tastes which go right across Northern, Modern, Disco, Funk, Motown, Modern, Jazz-Funk, Mellow, Boogie, 80's etc, etc, blah, blah, blah. Almost any type of music you can think of. I've got wide tastes.....

To have my entire lifetime collection at my disposal in my shirt-pocket anywhere in the world at any given time, to me is just incredible.

I no longer want to limit myself just by what I can physically carry.

Also I want to paint from a massive canvass to the right audience.

So that means I'd prefer to have my ENTIRE collection with me, so that when I get inspired I can go many different routes and play tunes which have never been heard before by much of the audience.

I wrote an article about all this recently........

Manifesto___Northern_Soul_In_The_Digital_Age.doc

I'm EMBRACING the possibilities that the digital age can offer!

A godsend for me in terms of convenience and choice of music.

Also, as Rob & Karen Whigley pointed out on another thread, this is the week when Woollies decided to discontinue CD singles.

The world as we know it has changed massively in terms of music delivery and formats.

Interesting times.

Great thread!

Ian D

[Mark R]

Also, as Rob & Karen Whigley pointed out on another thread, this is the week when Woollies decided to discontinue CD singles.

Ian D

Ian, what you on fella..........this is that thread!!

And don't you think you can sometimes have too many tunes with you when DJ'ing??..........I reckon I sometimes feel that way, so having 10,000 I don't see that much benefit in personally.

Cheers,

Mark R

[TOAD]

NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD BUY A DOWNLOAD BUT ALL THATS CHANGED SINCE I HEARD CHARLES DOCKINS "BEST OF ME" BIGEST TUNE TODAY FOR ME AFTER HEARING IT LAST NIGHT ON STARPOINT..GLENN LEWIS "STAY WITH ME"(PROMO)

[Ian Dewhirst]

I find one of the most disturbing aspects of the loss of physical product like vinyl/cd on the high street is that - where are the people who don't have the disposable income to buy a computer and get a broadband connection - and more importantly do not have a credit card - going to be able to purchase to music? i've been in the situation where I couldn't afford the luxury of expensive electrical items, did not have a credit card, but I could still pick up a new release 45 if I wanted it, as it was only a few quid. Without having the investment to buy all the products to play them on in the first place, what are you gonna do?

same for the tv and radio when they switch off the analogue airwaves soon - not everybody has £100 for a digital radio, £300 for a HD TV, money for a sky subscription, a digi box, etc - the poorer people are going to be cut out of society even more, there appears to be little concern over any of this.

how many of you older guys hitched to an allnighter regularly, spent what little money you had left on a few pressings, but could at least hear the music? you can't do that now.

cheers Paul

Good point Sutty.

And food for though ay?

After singing the praises of the digital revolution, I've now seen a downside to it all after reading your post. I'm thinking of my Dad and his lack of technical patience - he's only just got comfortable with the CD format LOL!

At least with a physical format you have it in your hands and it can't be dictated by a credit card, hard drive or a broadband connection can it?

But we seem to be hurtling into an age in which physical products are being rapidly devalued and seem to be becoming almost obselete in many areas of life.

Oh baby baby it's a wild world..........

Ian D

[Mark R]

NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD BUY A DOWNLOAD BUT ALL THATS CHANGED SINCE I HEARD CHARLES DOCKINS "BEST OF ME" BIGEST TUNE TODAY FOR ME AFTER HEARING IT LAST NIGHT ON STARPOINT..GLENN LEWIS "STAY WITH ME"(PROMO)

Tim, the music always has to come first mate, so as much as I want vinyl, I refuse to miss out on a great new tune because it's only available on MP3. Good on ya mate

Check out Sterling Ensemble "Truth" on Traxsource mate..........and they'll tell you it's nothing to do with the SOUL

Cheers,

Mark R

[TOAD]

HELLO MARK HOW ARE YOU!

THANKS FOR THE TIP.

YES IF ITS ONLY MP3 WELL THATS THE WAY IVE GOT TO GET IT! SO EASY TO TRANSFER TO A CD TO "PLAY OUT" AND THERES UNREALESED MIXES TO TEMPT ME TO

WOULD PUT GLENN LEWIS UP IN REFSOUL BUT ITS WATERMARKED!!(WHATS THAT ALL ABOUT)

[Ian Dewhirst]

Ian, what you on fella..........this is that thread!!

And don't you think you can sometimes have too many tunes with you when DJ'ing??..........I reckon I sometimes feel that way, so having 10,000 I don't see that much benefit in personally.

Cheers,

Mark R

Haha LOL! That's what a weekend in Birmingham and a general lack of sleep will do mate!

For me I like the choice option. I can almost never have enough choice.

There's always that unique mind-blowing possibility if I could just choose any record I wanted. The sort of choice which would allow me to go from, say, Ernie K. Doe's "Here Come The Girls" to T. Connection's "Do What You Wanna Do" to Dillinger's "Cocaine In My Brain" to Eddie Kendricks' "Date With The Rain" for instance LOL....

Some people may argue that it could be too much choice LOL.....

But with a few thousand Northern tunes I could do some damage. When was the last time anyone played Sterling McGee's "Keep On", the Perigents "Love's On A Rampage", Peaches & Herb's "I Need Your Love So Desperately" or The Fabulous Downbeats "Life Goes On" for instance? Would they even be in the box for a gig?

God, there's TONS of stuff which is surely underplayed isn't there? A lot of the time it's 'cos the DJ doesn't have them with him or her because they only have the couple of hundred tunes which they know will be generally OK.

But just imagine if you had massive knowledge and unlimited choice of what to play.

Incidentaly Mark, drop me a PM - I'm doing an office clearout right now with TONS of stuff which I think is right up your street - lotsa Soulful Jazzy Housy typa stuff and yer welcome to cherry pick!

Best,

Ian D

[Rob Wigley]

Hi Ian

But with a few thousand Northern tunes I could do some damage. When was the last time anyone played Sterling McGee's "Keep On", the Perigents "Love's On A Rampage", Peaches & Herb's "I Need Your Love So Desperately" or The Fabulous Downbeats "Life Goes On" for instance? Would they even be in the box for a gig?

can you imagine someone coming to the decks, asking for something you haven't got

you can say "I haven't got that with me IT'S ON MY OTHER HARD DRIVE !" ? not the same ring as "it's in my other box"

God, there's TONS of stuff which is surely underplayed isn't there? A lot of the time it's 'cos the DJ doesn't have them with him or her because they only have the couple of hundred tunes which they know will be generally OK.

I feel there is already a grassroots movement or trend towards these records being played with 3 Clubs I know which moving in this direction as a direct "Backlash" against overplayed oldies and VERY expensive rare or popular tunes.

No big crowds, just dedicated SOUL people enjoying the records. However none of the people involved would be seen dead whipping the old Hard Drive out when stepping up to the decks

[TOAD]

SOME WOULD ONLY NEED A 2GB "FLASH PEN" FOR THERE COLLECTION

[paultp]

I find one of the most disturbing aspects of the loss of physical product like vinyl/cd on the high street is that - where are the people who don't have the disposable income to buy a computer and get a broadband connection - and more importantly do not have a credit card - going to be able to purchase to music? i've been in the situation where I couldn't afford the luxury of expensive electrical items, did not have a credit card, but I could still pick up a new release 45 if I wanted it, as it was only a few quid. Without having the investment to buy all the products to play them on in the first place, what are you gonna do?

same for the tv and radio when they switch off the analogue airwaves soon - not everybody has £100 for a digital radio, £300 for a HD TV, money for a sky subscription, a digi box, etc - the poorer people are going to be cut out of society even more, there appears to be little concern over any of this.

how many of you older guys hitched to an allnighter regularly, spent what little money you had left on a few pressings, but could at least hear the music? you can't do that now.

cheers Paul

This reminds me of a conversation in my pub between the barman that evening (20 something) and the chap who used to run the village shop (long since closed, ironically he drives the Tesco delivery van).

Barman: (Showing off his i-pod to admiring female customer) " yeah its the new i-pod, holds (insert figure grasped from air) tunes"

Shoppy: (Butting In) "Right then, what does that do?"

Barman explains that he can put all his tunes on it and walk round playing whatever he wants, where ever he wants.

Shoppy: "So does it come with the music on it?"

Barman laughs: "No you have to download it and then put it on it, or transfer from CD's"

Shoppy: (looking bemused) "eh?"

Barman: (Switches to patronising mode) " you use your computer to connect to the internet, download tunes and then transfer them onto your ipod, or you use your computer to transfer tunes from CD to mp3 and then put them on your ipod"

Shoppy: "So you need a computer? How much did the i-pod cost?"

Barman "£200"

Shoppy: (Sprays beer onto bar) "How much?!!" (A commonly heard phrase in North Yorkshire) "So what can you do with it if you haven't got a computer?"

Barman: (His turn to look bemused) "Well, nothing really"

Shoppy: "Bloody hell! .... do you pay for the tunes you download?"

Barman: (getting self concious as everyone is now listening - average age 50) "of course you do! but they are only 80p each"

Shoppy splutters again: "How much?!! ... who do you get the tunes from?"

Barman: "Well Apple's i-tunes is easiest ..."

Shoppy : (interrupting) "Hang on, don't they make that lump of metal? .... Oh I get it!"

Shoppy: (now laughing barely able to contain glee at finally understanding) "So you've paid 200 quid for a lump of metal that is useless unless you have paid umpteen hundred for a computer AND the internet connection? then you pay to download music from the people who make the lump of metal" (laughs loudly)

"Well they bloody saw you coming!"

(Drains pint to sound of laughter ringing round the bar - barman looks at me for support but I am scuttling off laughing too)

[Pete S]

I had this conversation at work the other day, some one told me in the 70s there was a special walk when you carried your LP home.. and you never used a carrier bag so the whole world could see it

This is absolutely true - the carrier bag bit - sometimes you would take an LP out with you just to show it off! I remember doing this with the original Trojan storry triple lp back in 72 except it got heavy under my 12 year old weakling arm and I had to take it back home

[Guest Carl Dixon]

Hey Paul! Second hand MP3's, now there's a thought.

Digital music is taking the romance out of the product a little. I know the medium will change as the years go on, and like said earlier, it's what the music is about. However, it seems the journey on a steam train has more romance, than a new electric machine. Look at the Juke box, or even the Pianola. Something mechanical, like the fair ground has a dimension that cannot be transmitted down a fibre optic. I am not denying the convenience of a hard drive or mp3 player, or eben a laptop playing DJ at a wedding, but the worth of something is often measured with a physical product. An original Beano comic from 1966, or a 45 from 1967. Look at all these effects being used in movies these days. We do not know what we are looking at, yet throught TV and the movie industry they are keying things into th epicture, because it can be done. Just because we can compress audio, does not mean we should. We are free to buy vinyl or whatever we like, if it is available and should always remember convenience is often the tail wagging the dog.

I can see one day an MP3 having a small programme associated with it. Depending on how you look after it on your hard drive and how many plays, or even forwards to friends, the song will start to sound worn, warped and have scratches, forcing you to replace it one day....just like a real record should!

[Neil Rushton]

Getting EUK (Woolworth's) to take singles in ANY format has often been the bane of my working life. If downloads eventually mean that Woolworth's never make a penny out of music I would happily dance on their graves. They and their fellow chain stores are the destroyers of independent labels and creativity and use their market share clout to act as bullies - even once with us having the brazen cheek to ask for 10,00 singles free and then saying they were not happy with the back up marketing! (this seriously happened to me when I was running Network and in that chart world).

Download sales have killed sales on physical formats but before that happened the chains (HMV,Virgin, etc) had too much power for far too long. The stupid major labels craved into their demands for huge discounts and free stock and are now reaping the consequences.The upside about downloads is that it gives the creators of music the means to control the methods of distribution of their art which is why the majors are now running around like headless chickens.

All in all music has been devalued. I have recently been working with UB40 and they decided to release their new album as a free CD with the Mail On Sunday because the money the newspaper pays for guaranteed sales (albeit of CDs that are "free") and the music publishing royatlies that are generated is more than most artists/songwriters will - in the present crap sales climate - ever generate by conventional methods of releasing a record. Sad but true!

Now I've got that rant off my chest I think I will have a search for that Perigents single Ian was on about.

[mischief]

This is absolutely true - the carrier bag bit - sometimes you would take an LP out with you just to show it off! I remember doing this with the original Trojan storry triple lp back in 72 except it got heavy under my 12 year old weakling arm and I had to take it back home

[Madmandy]

Is this the proof of the old saying "What goes round, comes round" ?

What you said ...very apt for vinyl ...dont you think ???

Mand

[TOAD]

Getting EUK (Woolworth's) to take singles in ANY format has often been the bane of my working life. If downloads eventually mean that Woolworth's never make a penny out of music I would happily dance on their graves. They and their fellow chain stores are the destroyers of independent labels and creativity and use their market share clout to act as bullies - even once with us having the brazen cheek to ask for 10,00 singles free and then saying they were not happy with the back up marketing! (this seriously happened to me when I was running Network and in that chart world).

Download sales have killed sales on physical formats but before that happened the chains (HMV,Virgin, etc) had too much power for far too long. The stupid major labels craved into their demands for huge discounts and free stock and are now reaping the consequences.The upside about downloads is that it gives the creators of music the means to control the methods of distribution of their art which is why the majors are now running around like headless chickens.

All in all music has been devalued. I have recently been working with UB40 and they decided to release their new album as a free CD with the Mail On Sunday because the money the newspaper pays for guaranteed sales (albeit of CDs that are "free") and the music publishing royatlies that are generated is more than most artists/songwriters will - in the present crap sales climate - ever generate by conventional methods of releasing a record. Sad but true!

Now I've got that rant off my chest I think I will have a search for that Perigents single Ian was on about.

very interesting niel

ta for enlighting me

[foolish fool]

[

I feel there is already a grassroots movement or trend towards these records being played with 3 Clubs I know which moving in this direction as a direct "Backlash" against overplayed oldies and VERY expensive rare or popular tunes.

No big crowds, just dedicated SOUL people enjoying the records. However none of the people involved would be seen dead whipping the old Hard Drive out when stepping up to the decks

[Dave Thorley]

Interesting subject, just been loading a bunch onto our data base to put on the site. I bought out a record promo guy in Detroit some years ago, part of the deal was a bunch of CD singles. When they arrived, just left them in the boxes and never really paid them any attention.

Started going through them a while back, lots of stuff by artists I've never seen before or tracks by southern artists that don't appear on albums. Mainly from the 90's, but nice modern soul.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Getting EUK (Woolworth's) to take singles in ANY format has often been the bane of my working life. If downloads eventually mean that Woolworth's never make a penny out of music I would happily dance on their graves. They and their fellow chain stores are the destroyers of independent labels and creativity and use their market share clout to act as bullies - even once with us having the brazen cheek to ask for 10,00 singles free and then saying they were not happy with the back up marketing! (this seriously happened to me when I was running Network and in that chart world).

Download sales have killed sales on physical formats but before that happened the chains (HMV,Virgin, etc) had too much power for far too long. The stupid major labels craved into their demands for huge discounts and free stock and are now reaping the consequences.The upside about downloads is that it gives the creators of music the means to control the methods of distribution of their art which is why the majors are now running around like headless chickens.

All in all music has been devalued. I have recently been working with UB40 and they decided to release their new album as a free CD with the Mail On Sunday because the money the newspaper pays for guaranteed sales (albeit of CDs that are "free") and the music publishing royatlies that are generated is more than most artists/songwriters will - in the present crap sales climate - ever generate by conventional methods of releasing a record. Sad but true!

Now I've got that rant off my chest I think I will have a search for that Perigents single Ian was on about.

Truer words were never spake! Spot on Neil.

And the Perigents is filed just before those Oscar Perry tunes isn't it? Third row down towards the left...........

Ian D

[Guest slimboy]

Have a look at these..brill idea,there is hope yet!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VinylDisc

https://www.boingboing.net/2007/10/19/vinyl...hybrid-pla.html

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

All's well with going digital but what about replacing IPod's that don't work if you use them too much or because you want ones that store more music on it.

I currently have a simple apple I pod nano with 1,000 song storage and same one for dad (i add all Northern and Modern to his). but i wouldn't mind getting one that stores more tracks even though it would have to be a good 20,000 tracks or so and i still wouldn't have my whole collection on there. They say Ipods were made so your whole music collection can be stored but what is the largest storage on an IPod. on my i tunes there's about 7,000 tracks programmed in which could be transfered onto my Ipod at anytime if i deleted stuff off to add on. but out of that 7,000 some songs are the same ie Percy Sledge - When a Man Loves a women could have come from say 2 cd's an Atlantic soul cd and say a love song cd.

and then if you have an IPod with like 20,000 tracks on it and so on. what happens after a few years when it's broken you have to buy a new one. where i have cd's that can last longer and if i was wise i could copy so many that if a cd got knacked i can use my backup copy or i have been lucky to buy cheap back up copies of cd's like from car boots and charity shops because my last one worn out. But i think cd's would last longer unless you looked after an IPod very well (if not they could damage easy)

One other thing, surely you would need bigger hard drives or at least extended one to store the music or else your computer might get too much to store (without music, your fine until you start adding tracks be it downloads and from cd's it starts to build up and before you know too little space)

[Reg]

I still think MP3s are too much like hard work. I really can't be bothered with all the palava, I've got an mp3 player but it's still got the same 100 tracks on it that Richard put on it about 2 years ago. I'd much rather just go out and buy a record or a CD. It's not the medium itself that I have a problem with it's just all the messing about, although it isn't the same is it..no sleeve notes, no postman knocking at your door with something other than bills.....

I like it that some current artists are releasing vinyl singles, I may just go out and buy the new Paul Weller one

What did interest me was what Neil Rushton said about UB40 giving their cd away with the Mail. I had wondered about that as I got the Ray Davies lp free with (possibly) the Mail last year and I wondered how he could afford to do that. Then when you think about the distribution the Mail gets compared to how many lps Ray would have realistically sold then I suppose the Mail made him an offer he couldnt refuse!

[Rob Wigley]

Have a look at these..brill idea,there is hope yet!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VinylDisc

https://www.boingboing.net/2007/10/19/vinyl...hybrid-pla.html

Clever feckers them Germans ! If they did all the northern it would be great, a small "record" box and you'd get your CDs "Free" underneth the plastic !

Rob

[Guest Paul]

...What did interest me was what Neil Rushton said about UB40 giving their cd away with the Mail. I had wondered about that as I got the Ray Davies lp free with (possibly) the Mail last year and I wondered how he could afford to do that. Then when you think about the distribution the Mail gets compared to how many lps Ray would have realistically sold then I suppose the Mail made him an offer he couldnt refuse!

RE: I wondered how he could afford to do that (?)

Hello Reg,

When people "give away" music via a covermount CD or a "free" newspaper CD they usually get paid a fee. It's the newspapers who are "giving it away" and the public who are getting it "free"; the artists and record companies get paid in most cases.

The "free" CDs are also subject to mechanical royalties at special rates so they provide an income for writers and publishers.

Best regards,

Paul Mooney

[Guest Paul]

Spot on, Neil.

The major chains and supermarkets have devalued music, put many "proper" music retailers out of business and damaged the whole industry - indie labels in particular

I also believe the major labels are equally at fault for "getting into bed" with the chains and supermarkets. All they were ever interested in was stocking a narrow range of product and selling it for next to nothing as a loss leader to attract customers.

Tesco and ASDA would soon object if indie music stores started selling groceries at discount prices!

Paul Mooney

[Ian Dewhirst]

All's well with going digital but what about replacing IPod's that don't work if you use them too much or because you want ones that store more music on it.

I currently have a simple apple I pod nano with 1,000 song storage and same one for dad (i add all Northern and Modern to his). but i wouldn't mind getting one that stores more tracks even though it would have to be a good 20,000 tracks or so and i still wouldn't have my whole collection on there. They say Ipods were made so your whole music collection can be stored but what is the largest storage on an IPod. on my i tunes there's about 7,000 tracks programmed in which could be transfered onto my Ipod at anytime if i deleted stuff off to add on. but out of that 7,000 some songs are the same ie Percy Sledge - When a Man Loves a women could have come from say 2 cd's an Atlantic soul cd and say a love song cd.

and then if you have an IPod with like 20,000 tracks on it and so on. what happens after a few years when it's broken you have to buy a new one. where i have cd's that can last longer and if i was wise i could copy so many that if a cd got knacked i can use my backup copy or i have been lucky to buy cheap back up copies of cd's like from car boots and charity shops because my last one worn out. But i think cd's would last longer unless you looked after an IPod very well (if not they could damage easy)

One other thing, surely you would need bigger hard drives or at least extended one to store the music or else your computer might get too much to store (without music, your fine until you start adding tracks be it downloads and from cd's it starts to build up and before you know too little space)

That's why you need a sexy Western Digital Passport 250g or 500g External Hard-Drive which'll easily fit in your shirt pocket! That'll back up your lappy and hold 100,000+ tunes if need be.

Takes up less space than the 3 rooms which are currently holding Vinyl and CD's that's for sure LOL.....

Ian D

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

well have you ever noticed if Supermarkets start selling cd's more then an actual record shop. Uusally not the case but i found that i wanted (don't shoot me) The Eurovision dance party cd double cd and Tesco had it at £14 at least thinking ok must be cause it's double cd yet HMV had the same cd for only £10 and that's not normally something you see HMV selling a cd less then Tesco especially in terms of new cd. So i had already brought it from Tesco before i got to HMV to check price.

HMV does nice Northern soul cd's online cheap just brought 3 cd's for £21 and they all only £6.99 each and all have good stuff on it.